This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, Good Game: Evolving Boros. We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.
Great article, very good that someone isn't afraid to test new ideas.
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Anthony Lowry, Article Writer for Manashift.
Your #1 source for New York City Magic!
Twitter: @Aufam
Complaining about card prices accomplishes nothing. Read some Medina articles, learn to trade better, don’t act like the only way to do ANYTHING in this game is to price out decks and buy every single you ever need.
Sweet article, I'm trying to build a boros deck my self and test it.
totally agree is not very techy deck but it has some (i think is appropriated to say) tweaks to deal with those threats.
I'd like to read more about mirror and control matches.
In the aftermath of it all, we are left with... well, what we've been wishing for since Faeries became a dominant deck: a diverse metagame.
How is the Metagame "diverse"? Jund is even more Dominant than Faeries was and the meta consists of Jund and about five other Aggro/Midrange Decks trying to beat Jund. The general rule for deckbuilding at the moment seems to be:
1. Pick two or three colors but not blue
2. Play Bloodbraid Elf or Range of Eos, whichever is in your colors
3. Play the best agressive Creatures in your colors and 8-12 removal spells.
In the Faerie Metagame, the other decks were at least drastically different than faeries and not just the same deck in different colors.
How is the Metagame "diverse"? Jund is even more Dominant than Faeries was and the meta consists of Jund and about five other Aggro/Midrange Decks trying to beat Jund. The general rule for deckbuilding at the moment seems to be:
1. Pick two or three colors but not blue
2. Play Bloodbraid Elf or Range of Eos, whichever is in your colors
3. Play the best agressive Creatures in your colors and 8-12 removal spells.
In the Faerie Metagame, the other decks were at least drastically different than faeries and not just the same deck in different colors.
I have to agree, is there anything but aggro in the metagame? Try counting the number of blue cards in worlds T8. That's right, you need only one hand... On the other hand, there were 20 Bloodbraid Elves and 14 Ranger of Eosses, with the winner playing a full playset of both.
Is it a fresh change of pace? For certain. We've seen various combo and control decks in the past few years, even with those tiny teensy Kithkin in the metagame, aggro wasn't on top for sure. Diverse though? Nope.
I have to agree, is there anything but aggro in the metagame? Try counting the number of blue cards in worlds T8. That's right, you need only one hand... On the other hand, there were 20 Bloodbraid Elves and 14 Ranger of Eosses, with the winner playing a full playset of both.
Is it a fresh change of pace? For certain. We've seen various combo and control decks in the past few years, even with those tiny teensy Kithkin in the metagame, aggro wasn't on top for sure. Diverse though? Nope.
All in all a nice read anyway though
Magica Christmas Land, Cascade control and Jacerator would like to have a word with you.
How is the Metagame "diverse"? Jund is even more Dominant than Faeries was and the meta consists of Jund and about five other Aggro/Midrange Decks trying to beat Jund. The general rule for deckbuilding at the moment seems to be:
1. Pick two or three colors but not blue
2. Play Bloodbraid Elf or Range of Eos, whichever is in your colors
3. Play the best agressive Creatures in your colors and 8-12 removal spells.
In the Faerie Metagame, the other decks were at least drastically different than faeries and not just the same deck in different colors.
The statement that Jund is more dominant than Faeries was is simply false. Also, your oversimplified deckbuilding instructions are just a mirror-image of Lorwyn Standard:
1. Pick any group of colors as long as it includes blue
2. Play Cryptic Command and Reflecting Pool
3. Fill out the rest of the deck with either a linear group of aggro creatures (tribal) or just the most powerful spells there are, because color doesn't really matter.
At least now we have color discipline, interaction of cards from both blocks, and relevant use of commons and uncommons. It's no nice not to be playing Yugioh anymore.
Nice article once again, I've enjoyed reading your stuff even when it was about fish... I will have to bring Hookmasters to my local shop today so I can tell my bud to play your list. It seems pretty freaking good, even against mirrors (not so much on the draw, though... but still good) I mean sure, it's no good against my deck but who plays control?
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Slaughtering elves with a grin on meh face since 2004.
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i like the idea of the hookmaster, but an idea i have been thinking for rush decks like boros is Safe Passage, because it would let you attack even b4 your board was alpha ready, and when they block you get to take down their board, next turn just walk right in. probably not the best idea but i thought it might be worth considering
I've been sold on using Jund Hackblade in my Jund deck for some time now, fact is nearly all of your creatures are multi color meaning as long as you have something else out he's good to go. I think a faster Jund is a deck to be further explored but that manabase is so shakey. I can't help but feel going R/G with just a splash black, or visa versa would lend to more consistant mana.
I also like the idea of Sanctafiers and hook masters as good little 2for1s. I think that there must be some way to mix the boros speed with a more white centric Honor of the pure/soilders theme. If you could ditch 20% speed for 50% more potent creatures, would it be worth it? hmm
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Yabbajava, in response to an MTG movie
"They could do scars block with Samuel L. Jackson as Koth 'I WANT THESE MOTHER *****ING PHYREXIANS OFF MY MOTHER *****ING PLANE!'"
A very good read again, Andrew. I needed to learn more about Boros Bushwacker in order to be prepared for it with my current decks, and I hadn't read a good primer about it yet, so this helps a lot. The Hookmaster idea sure is clever!
I must say I like your Jund list a lot. The only thing I really disagreed with in earlier versions was the Vampire Lacerators. Now that the curve starts at two, with all the best two-drops for a fast Jund deck, I totally approve your version's approach.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
My thoughts exactly; the Lacerators were the only thing I really disliked about the older Jund build. The Hackblades seem much better, and fit better with the rest of the deck.
A good article, especially in reference to the Jund build. I have been using a variant build with Hackblade in it for some time, and overall its played 28-6-6, which I don't think I can complain about. Interestingly, Hackblade was refuted in the Standard Pro-Tour Jund forum for being a "terrible, subpar card" despite it's obvious synergy with the other critters. Anyway, good read.
"It's much better to hold your dudes back than to start trading"
I'm assuming this means, that you should try to block as little as possible (unless you're at low life) and attack as little as possible when the opponent's got some bigger guys than you?
Magica Christmas Land, Cascade control and Jacerator would like to have a word with you.
Oh, and I forgot about the Spread'em deck as well. Love the idea Also, I forgot that the T8 at worlds was not a reflection of standard only, but also of limited and extended.
Interesting thoughts on the Hookmaster. We've been running it in mono white over at the soldiers thread.
I don't know if you've seen Rob Daughtry's sixteen land white wheenie deck. The curve topped out at 3 with just the 4 Hookmasters. Plus one Elspeth.
That's the list I've been working with. It's a similiar deck to Boros. You lose out on hasty guys and burn, but you get Honor of the Pure and Brave The Elements for alpha strike and combat tricks. You also beat Boros a lot of the time with all your first strikers.
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The most often misspelled word on these forums is ROGUE. Let me clarify, ROUGE, is something your mother puts on her face to keep her looking pretty. ROGUE is the word you're looking for.
I think it was overall a really well written article.
I honestly just think botching Jund decks into aggro wheenies with no actual benefits is sorta ridiculous. We are trying to rid those people on the standard forums already :S
i'm sorry, but i honestly think bushwhacker is JUNK.
it hits fast, but if your opponent gains life, or board sweeps you lose. and that isnt very hard.
pyroclasm, volcanic fallout, jund charm, angel's mercy, the white common expedition, nighthawk, bloodwitch, and tendrils all 1-up boros.
"Saving up fetch lands when you're opponent's playing red" would stop the first three. Pathing your own creatures in response to one of those would also save landfall guys.
Overcommitting to the board is a dumb way to play boros.
HOw about killing your own guys in response to a tendrils?
Is the fact that William Cavaglieri's White token LIFEGAIN deck lost to Snepvangers BOROS deck escape you?
One of the best things about Boros is how it recovers from a sweeper... I don't think you've actually tested the deck enough to make generalizations like the ones above. It's not necessarily an "easy" deck to pilot either.
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The most often misspelled word on these forums is ROGUE. Let me clarify, ROUGE, is something your mother puts on her face to keep her looking pretty. ROGUE is the word you're looking for.
i'm sorry, but i honestly think bushwhacker is JUNK.
it hits fast, but if your opponent gains life, or board sweeps you lose. and that isnt very hard.
pyroclasm, volcanic fallout, jund charm, angel's mercy, the white common expedition, nighthawk, bloodwitch, and tendrils all 1-up boros.
Cavaglieri's deck gained a bunch of life against Bram Snepvanger's deck in g1.. and Bram still beat in for more than damage to take it. Also g2 Cavaglieri goes Turn 1: Soul Warden, Turn 2: Soul Warden, Soul Warden. Guess who won?
One of the best things about Boros is how it recovers from a sweeper... I don't think you've actually tested the deck enough to make generalizations like the ones above. It's not necessarily an "easy" deck to pilot either.
It's definitely not easy to pilot. I always make play mistakes that end up costing me matches (i.e. forgetting to hold back a fetch, blocking when I sholdn't have (using my ranger to bloock a vanguard) and having a bushwhacker in hand).
Anthony Lowry, Article Writer for Manashift.
Your #1 source for New York City Magic!
Twitter: @Aufam
totally agree is not very techy deck but it has some (i think is appropriated to say) tweaks to deal with those threats.
I'd like to read more about mirror and control matches.
excuse my English is not my native language.
How is the Metagame "diverse"? Jund is even more Dominant than Faeries was and the meta consists of Jund and about five other Aggro/Midrange Decks trying to beat Jund. The general rule for deckbuilding at the moment seems to be:
1. Pick two or three colors but not blue
2. Play Bloodbraid Elf or Range of Eos, whichever is in your colors
3. Play the best agressive Creatures in your colors and 8-12 removal spells.
In the Faerie Metagame, the other decks were at least drastically different than faeries and not just the same deck in different colors.
I have to agree, is there anything but aggro in the metagame? Try counting the number of blue cards in worlds T8. That's right, you need only one hand... On the other hand, there were 20 Bloodbraid Elves and 14 Ranger of Eosses, with the winner playing a full playset of both.
Is it a fresh change of pace? For certain. We've seen various combo and control decks in the past few years, even with those tiny teensy Kithkin in the metagame, aggro wasn't on top for sure. Diverse though? Nope.
All in all a nice read anyway though
*shrug*
100% credit to High~Light Studios and Spiderboy's proness.
Magica Christmas Land, Cascade control and Jacerator would like to have a word with you.
My blog.
The statement that Jund is more dominant than Faeries was is simply false. Also, your oversimplified deckbuilding instructions are just a mirror-image of Lorwyn Standard:
1. Pick any group of colors as long as it includes blue
2. Play Cryptic Command and Reflecting Pool
3. Fill out the rest of the deck with either a linear group of aggro creatures (tribal) or just the most powerful spells there are, because color doesn't really matter.
At least now we have color discipline, interaction of cards from both blocks, and relevant use of commons and uncommons. It's no nice not to be playing Yugioh anymore.
I also like the idea of Sanctafiers and hook masters as good little 2for1s. I think that there must be some way to mix the boros speed with a more white centric Honor of the pure/soilders theme. If you could ditch 20% speed for 50% more potent creatures, would it be worth it? hmm
"They could do scars block with Samuel L. Jackson as Koth 'I WANT THESE MOTHER *****ING PHYREXIANS OFF MY MOTHER *****ING PLANE!'"
I must say I like your Jund list a lot. The only thing I really disagreed with in earlier versions was the Vampire Lacerators. Now that the curve starts at two, with all the best two-drops for a fast Jund deck, I totally approve your version's approach.
Keep it up; I really enjoy these articles.
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I'm assuming this means, that you should try to block as little as possible (unless you're at low life) and attack as little as possible when the opponent's got some bigger guys than you?
Oh, and I forgot about the Spread'em deck as well. Love the idea Also, I forgot that the T8 at worlds was not a reflection of standard only, but also of limited and extended.
I don't know if you've seen Rob Daughtry's sixteen land white wheenie deck. The curve topped out at 3 with just the 4 Hookmasters. Plus one Elspeth.
That's the list I've been working with. It's a similiar deck to Boros. You lose out on hasty guys and burn, but you get Honor of the Pure and Brave The Elements for alpha strike and combat tricks. You also beat Boros a lot of the time with all your first strikers.
I honestly just think botching Jund decks into aggro wheenies with no actual benefits is sorta ridiculous. We are trying to rid those people on the standard forums already :S
The author writes about decks he is playing, so unless he picks up vamps, you won't get an article on it from him.
i'm sorry, but i honestly think bushwhacker is JUNK.
it hits fast, but if your opponent gains life, or board sweeps you lose. and that isnt very hard.
pyroclasm, volcanic fallout, jund charm, angel's mercy, the white common expedition, nighthawk, bloodwitch, and tendrils all 1-up boros.
official rules advisor. it gets me there.
"Saving up fetch lands when you're opponent's playing red" would stop the first three. Pathing your own creatures in response to one of those would also save landfall guys.
Overcommitting to the board is a dumb way to play boros.
HOw about killing your own guys in response to a tendrils?
Is the fact that William Cavaglieri's White token LIFEGAIN deck lost to Snepvangers BOROS deck escape you?
Cavaglieri's deck gained a bunch of life against Bram Snepvanger's deck in g1.. and Bram still beat in for more than damage to take it. Also g2 Cavaglieri goes Turn 1: Soul Warden, Turn 2: Soul Warden, Soul Warden. Guess who won?
It's definitely not easy to pilot. I always make play mistakes that end up costing me matches (i.e. forgetting to hold back a fetch, blocking when I sholdn't have (using my ranger to bloock a vanguard) and having a bushwhacker in hand).