This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, How to Play on a Budget. We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Back in the year 2001 or so, me and my cousin were playing MtG nearly 24/7 during our summer holidays, and at a time we ever tried to surprise the other with a new variant of control decks. Well, that turned out to be un-fun, as my then favourite interaction involving Ensnaring Bridge, Null Brooch and Cursed Scroll guaranteed for long-lasting games during which my opponent wasn't really doing much that was fun, except waiting for my scrolls to eat away on his life.
We then decided to restrict ourselves to mono-colored, no-rares-at-all decks for both of us. And I tell you what, games were much shorter, but also incredibly more fun. Of course the control aspects were pushed back a lot, but aggro just is more fun to play anyway So every one of us had these cheap weenie decks, and we were happily rotating large chunks of the cards in there to find the optimum in cards we had. That were really good times.
I quit playing in 2002, and started out again a few months back. Of course I had kept all my decks from back then, and when I decided to visit a local store to play some games (without doing any research at all about what's played these days), it soon became clear to me that my "good" decks from back then stand no chance at all against today's. The only deck I managed to get me some wins at least was my mono-red, no-rare-at-all Sligh. Funny, in a way.
At one point in my life I decided it would be fun to hitchhike the States but I still wanted to play, extreme budget was the only option to me. To this day I still like to go to the commons box every now an then an quick build something for kicks.
Even in my competitive decks tend to be crazy and have that one card that makes others go, What? Why? Oh..
Deck construction, in of itself, is a contentious subject (that I intend to cover someday). Suffice it to say here that deck construction is a difficult, imperfect science that even top plays disagree on. There are very broad sets of strategies but, with that in mind, constructing your deck in a manner that best benefits your deck's strategy is crucial. Better constructed (and tested) decks will perform better in the long run. No deck likes to whiff upwards of 50% of the time.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
I play a fair share of type 1. When you're playing a full powered control-slaver (or other sort of drain-deck) you expose yourself to agressive creature strategies, or strategies involving removal that can deal with your win conditions. When facing a budget ww with maindeck disenchants, ronom unicorns and swords to plowshare, there ain't much CS can do. That's regardless of the 6000$ price tag on my deck.
When I lose in a type 1 tournament to what other people would call scrubs, I like to reveal my hand and present the options I had. If I can make my opponent realise that their budget deck did not outplay me or startle me, but pretty much broke me in half by playing by a widely different set of rules than I did, I did my job of making them realise that the fact they won is not due to "budget vs moneyz" but to a clash in strategies in which they had the upper hand. Disruptive fast aggro will always be the doom of control-slaver, because when turn 1 welder and turn 3 platinum angel gets sworded, and that no drain can get high enough to power up that sundering titan, I'm screwed.
The point it: once the budget player realises his deck is budget and doesn't try to use a strategy recquiring expensive cards, he can focus and not half-ass his gameplan and then win against deck considered widely better.
And I try to never get mad when I lose to "bad decks", cause it happens, and you usually top 8 anyway when X-1-0 ;p
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Wow, just wow. How budget do you have to be if you can't scrape up 15$ a week? My opinion is that if you can't dedicate 50$ a month to MtG then you need another hobby.
Know what the best way to play on a budget is? PRINT YOUR OWN CARDS! Wow, why didn't someone think of this before? What a totally original idea! My goodness, how odd it is that this idea wasn't referenced in the article (unless I missed it). The dirty little secret never much talked about is that it is very easy to print your own cards and play with them.
The trick is finding people to play with, of course, who share your beliefs about cards. In reailty, there are tons of people who print out the occasional proxy for their casual group. Need a fourth bitterblossom to round out your deck? No problem; just print it out and sleeve it, placing it on top of a land or something worthless. I buy most all of my cards and have spent thousands. However, when testing a new deck idea, and when the store down the street doesn't have enough copies of the one card I need for my deck to work, of course I will print out proxies for my casual group. As long as you let everyone know what you have proxied and why, rarely do people have any issues with it.
The bad case is the occasional person who prints out EVERYTHING. I know a person like this, and he plays in a play group that tolerates it because he supposedly had all the original cards at one point but then sold them and later regretted it. I think he's full of it. But they tolerate it.
Nevertheless, I find it odd that printing out cards isn't really talked about in the article. The fact that it violates copyright isn't a big deal with me, as it's not as though I am attempting to sell the printed card. My moral is, buy the card whenever possible, but if it's not possible, why let that stop you from enjoying the game? That's playing on a budget!
Wow, just wow. How budget do you have to be if you can't scrape up 15$ a week? My opinion is that if you can't dedicate 50$ a month to MtG then you need another hobby.
Grats on the obfuscated trolling. Let those with little money everywhere rejoice: they can just play Hop-Scotch instead.
Your “argument” is similar to asking someone who can’t afford the software to just “use something else.” There is often little substitute for the real deal (hence rampant software piracy) or the substitutes themselves are quite inferior (try finding people who use “MS Paint” professionally, Maddox aside).
Magic is not a life necessity. However if someone can spend some money towards it why should they stop because it’s “not enough”? WoW (at the full rate of $15/month) is cheap compared to Magic… if you buy new cards regularly. Some Magic players don’t spend ANY money and play just fine. I personally know one such individual (and play with him regularly).
Your statement is grossly mean and ignorant of how diverse the people in the real world are. Or, in the words of a former US vice-presidential candidate: “Thanks, but no thanks.”
Know what the best way to play on a budget is? PRINT YOUR OWN CARDS! Wow, why didn't someone think of this before? What a totally original idea! My goodness, how odd it is that this idea wasn't referenced in the article (unless I missed it). The dirty little secret never much talked about is that it is very easy to print your own cards and play with them.
The trick is finding people to play with, of course, who share your beliefs about cards. In reailty, there are tons of people who print out the occasional proxy for their casual group. Need a fourth bitterblossom to round out your deck? No problem; just print it out and sleeve it, placing it on top of a land or something worthless. I buy most all of my cards and have spent thousands. However, when testing a new deck idea, and when the store down the street doesn't have enough copies of the one card I need for my deck to work, of course I will print out proxies for my casual group. As long as you let everyone know what you have proxied and why, rarely do people have any issues with it.
The bad case is the occasional person who prints out EVERYTHING. I know a person like this, and he plays in a play group that tolerates it because he supposedly had all the original cards at one point but then sold them and later regretted it. I think he's full of it. But they tolerate it.
Nevertheless, I find it odd that printing out cards isn't really talked about in the article. The fact that it violates copyright isn't a big deal with me, as it's not as though I am attempting to sell the printed card. My moral is, buy the card whenever possible, but if it's not possible, why let that stop you from enjoying the game? That's playing on a budget!
Because proxies aren't real Magic. You can't play in real tournaments with them. You aren't supporting WotC (You know, where all the cards come from?) and it makes it very easy to rig a deck (Cut to Yawgmoth's Will every time? Yes, please.) Proxies aren't the ultimate answer to budget: they are the ultimate cop out, the failure to follow through and play the real game.
When I proxy cards I do it to test before I go and buy the cards I need. Proxying is a tool to be used, not the house to live in. Magic was, and still is, designed to be played where not everyone would have copies of every card available. This is why certain cards and functions see print regularly: they are expected to be needed at some point.
I don't want this to devolve into an argument about design, acquiring play sets, and how cards should work. As many of my friends would implore: please don't proxy, expect to be allowed to proxy, or openly accept all proxying. Limited amounts when you are in the process of acquiring the cards is great (so you don't spend money you don't need to, and idea we can all aprpeciate) but ultimately it doesn't help you be a Magic player any more than playing on something like MWS. We all know how full MWS is with players with awesome skills and playing ethics; it's a great place to experience true Magic. [/sarcasm]
By the way, where do you print your proxies? I find high quality printing and ink to be an expensive proposition to do all the time from home, and the text templates of cards to be ugly (which is why I proxy using that template; I'm getting rid of the proxy ASAP).
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
I'm all for budget decks. I grew up poor. My decks were extremely budget. The only time i got new cards was on my birthday and christmas. At the little fnm's that i would go to, the players at the time had those netdecked pro player decks. Although i had no idea that stuff even existed until about a year ago. I look at those old pro decks and remember they are exactly the same as those kids i used to play against 10 years ago.
The funny thing is, even though my entire lifes collection was the size of a normal guys 1 year collection, i always did fairly well at fnm or w/e it was back then. I never did get first place but i remember being happy about getting second versus the rich kids.
And now, here I am with enough money to play any top level deck I want. I came back into magic in the lorwyn block. I bought a box of lorwyn, and made some red/green/black deck, and took it to my first real type 2 fnm. About half the players there play net decks. And guess what? I got second place my first day. For the next like 7 or so fnms i took budget decks to those fnms and I got 2nd place every time but maybe 1.
But what does that matter? You guys will just chalk up my success to "oh well your players in your area are just bad" Well i don't know. I looked up most of them, and the best players at my fnm are about 1750 1800 rating. I'm not sure if this is good or not, but since im new to this rating thing my rating is only like 1650. But anyways, one of those guys is the top rated guy in our area with like 1865 or something like that.
Then one week i went and bought a net deck. I took it to fnm and got 4th place. Like my worst placing ever! I get a net deck and do terrible! But i guess it was a lack of experience with the deck because I won my next fnm with it, my first 1'st place finish ever!
Why am i saying this? I don't know. I've never been to a big tourny likestates or anything. When i do go, i probably wont be taking a budet deck to see how well I do. But I think being a budget player my whole life made me a better player overall, due to having to learn how to make decks and outwit my opponent. But it kinda sucks for people who make a budget deck and its just ignored on the forums. Any success with said deck will be "chalked up to bad opponents".
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INTO THE RAY OF THE SUN, MARCH OUR HERO, HUNTING THE DARKLORD, REBORN FROM THE BLOOD OF HIS GOD... HIS GOD... THE WARMASTER KRON.
RIDE FOR THE FALL OF HIS POWER FIGHTING THE STORM, THE ROAR OF THE THUNDER, ALLY OF THE SUN AND THE MOON... GREAT SWORDMASTER RULE!
Grats on the obfuscated trolling. Let those with little money everywhere rejoice: they can just play Hop-Scotch instead.
Who says I'm trolling? I voiced my opinion. If your going to write an article then expect critisizm, don't call people who don't agree with you trolls it just shows that your immature and shouldn't be a writer. That aside the fact of the matter is that if you are so straped for cash that you can only scrape up 15$ every other week to draft, then you need another hobby... like gardening. Magic is expensive by any budget. But scraping by and trying to still make a showing in a competitive environment is just going to annoy the true Spikes that have a decent soul at your meeting ground because personally I hate beating the "kid down the road who plays with his weekly lunch money."
Talon, I can't even afford $15 to draft a week, all I do is go to FMNs ($5) and occasionally buy some junk rares. The only reason I have a collection is that I've been doing it for years, so I have a decent amount of stuff.
You have *no* place to tell people that they shouldn't play Magic just because they are poor. You have *no* place to tell people that they basically *must* have a top-tier deck or not go to the tournaments to "annoy you."
Certainly people can voice opinions, but you manage to do so in an insulting and derogatory way, just to get the attention and responses.
I spent around 150€ on Magic this year ... granted, that's because I have a good collection already, but then again, I've been working on it for a decade. This approach (buying a money rare when you can afford it even though it won't do much good immediately) requires patience though. Not to mention a format without rotation.
Jesus, I spend that much for six weeks worth of cigarettes. Damn. I could buy 3-4 duals each month for that
//edit:
@ XxTaLoNxX:
I'm playing devil's advocate here, but maybe if someone gets no fun out of FNMs due to whatever factor, they should find another hobby too.
My point exactly, do you love playing MtG more than the cigs you smoke? I know I do which is why I buy a 15$ bag of tobacco and tubes to roll my own. I go and actually shop logically instead of just take-out and I use coupons. And I have a good career and plenty of money but I also love to spend the money on things I enjoy. It's called priorities. So what if I have a complete 4 set of every set since Ravnica and many other cards beyond that. I earned it and spent my money wisely. And I go to the Pre/Release Events and get the cards cheap at the very beginning before the prices rocket.
And no I'm not being insulting to anyone. Seriously if you've been playing for years and haven't figured out how to come by cards beyond your budget then you need to learn. Not get mad at me because I am pointing out the fact that your wasting your time and money on a hobby you can't afford.
I see nothing wrong in doing a draft in a week and try to sketch decks out of the pool with your friends, sounds fun. Everyone is allowed to have fun as he/she pleases. But I won't put to much hope in the sketched outcomes once down in a big tournament:)
I'm glad you like the idea. Obviously tournament play is a different beat altogether from the casual Limited you and your friends would set up. There are "budget" tournament decks, but they scale very differently across all the formats: budget Standard is well less than half the cost of budget Vintage, for example.
Clearly, budget is an additional handicap at tournament play. Is there success to be found with budget at tournaments? Absolutely. Otherwise, no one would even try to bring budget to an FNM or PTQ. Is budget the best choice for any given tournament? Most likely not and I wouldn't recommend trying all the time.
This is why I stuck with the more casual/non-tournament side. Given a special format (like Peasant or Pauper) competitive and budget are forced together in an interesting way. When the format is defined by the natural restrictions of "budget" it becomes easy to stay competitive. I just want those of you who read the article to understand that I don't believe the budget belongs in every tournament.
If you win, though, by all means post the information here. Winning "when it counts" on a budget is, I feel, more exciting than winning with a net deck full of higher priced cards. It's all in my head, I know, but it just feel so good to win differently, and I would guess that some of you will understand. (Others, probably not as much.)
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Talon, If you can't afford to smoke the good stuff than you should just quit and find something else to do like gardening. The fact is what you said was offensive and insulting, regardless if you think so.
I don't see how its any more of a waste of time.
I personal like to not sleeve something budget just for beating face and annoying high horses as yourself(talon, you might not be, I am just telling you how you come off, don't get mad, I'm just pointing out the facts)
People play Magic because they love it. That's what maters. Not your budget.
Yeah, that's a good piece of advice. Two of my favorite variants of magic are almost free, pauper and mental magic, and they give me more enjoyment than does regular type 2.
Anyways, regular constructed isn't the only way to enjoy magic.
Another good way to play Magic on the cheap is to use online software such as Magic Workstation or OCTGN. That way you're able to build any deck you want for free and if you want to buy cards for a physical deck you'll be able to do so if you want. Or you can only play certain type of games with physical cards and play tournament decks online.
Playing sealed with physical cards is a lot of fun and the cards you get can be used to build peasant decks later on.
What I like to do is to build a big Highlander deck and then tweak that deck as new sets come out. That way I can have a good deck and not have to spend a lot of money.
Magic is really expensive if you want to keep up with the latest and the greatest. But using online free software and then budgeting how much you spend on physical cards will make life a lot easier for you.
I guess my point is, yeah, it's completely legitimate to be annoyed by the guy playing a suboptimal deck against you if you're competitively minded (personally, I enjoy beating someone obviously restricted by his card pool even less than beating someone clueless). It's also completely legitimate for that guy to want to play despite having other priorities, ranging from buying food to throwing money at traffic.
It's an impossible balance to strike between working with a budget and tournament success. For myself, this is why I caved and decided to lay tournaments to rest: I couldn't properly keep up and I was satisfied with my level of success (Top 4s at FNMs). I knew I couldn't move up and without significant investment I wouldn't achieve satisfying success even at just FNM.
Another good way to play Magic on the cheap is to use online software such as Magic Workstation or OCTGN. That way you're able to build any deck you want for free and if you want to buy cards for a physical deck you'll be able to do so if you want. Or you can only play certain type of games with physical cards and play tournament decks online.
Playing sealed with physical cards is a lot of fun and the cards you get can be used to build peasant decks later on.
What I like to do is to build a big Highlander deck and then tweak that deck as new sets come out. That way I can have a good deck and not have to spend a lot of money.
Magic is really expensive if you want to keep up with the latest and the greatest. But using online free software and then budgeting how much you spend on physical cards will make life a lot easier for you.
I've given MWS a try but found it to be trying. While I like that I can use any cards, and even some custom card sets, the lack of rule enforcement and immaturity of the few players I did run into left a bad taste in my mouth.
I can see the great advantage it would have for teams and international testing: playing games with any cards available without having to shell out for it in Magic Online (or, in other words, proxying over the internet) is pretty awesome when you're testing or working out a new deck. I just don't feel that it is the most appropriate answer to having a budget: it doesn't support the people who live to make the game, or the store owners that provide space and tournament organization locally.
For the record, I do enjoy Mental Magic. I'm also terrible at it.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
I'm going to appologize to any I may have offended. I actually just took the time to remember back when I started playing and had two car payments, a mortgage, a divorce and child support and I did have a budget too.
But I am going to go ahead and just say that if you really enjoy MtG you probably are not getting what you want out of 15$ every other week. And if I am correct here and you actually have a job with other financial responsibilities then you might want to sit down a write out a real budget and see where you can make a few sacrifices so you can increase your MtG budget because 15$ is really going to keep you behind the other guys at FNM that don't have a budget.
And if I am correct here and you actually have a job with other financial responsibilities then you might want to sit down a write out a real budget and see where you can make a few sacrifices so you can increase your MtG budget because 15$ is really going to keep you behind the other guys at FNM that don't have a budget.
Of course, not everyone plays in FNMs either... most casual players gather in their own groups and play, or go to Gateway type events (such as at my local shop on Saturdays), and in fact today my casual group is gathering for a game of peasant, EDH, and Chaos Magic (our own little house game), and of the four of us, only two have been to an FNM at all, and only I have been to an FNM within the past few months to a year.
[creepy horror narrator voice]We are out there... lurking in the shadows, hiding in basements or gathered around kitchen tables, and playing... playing with decks that cost less than $10 total, and we use them... over and over again, sometimes without buying any cards.... for weeks or months on end! Mwa ha ha ha ha![/creepy horror narrator voice].
Seriously though, you can play Magic on very little if you choose to. If you like being competitive and don't mind sinking a lot of cash into your hobby, cool, but for others that don't feel like making sacrifices in other areas of their life to fuel their colored cardboard habit, then they have the right and shouldn't be derided because of that choice.
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Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Of course, not everyone plays in FNMs either... most casual players gather in their own groups and play, or go to Gateway type events (such as at my local shop on Saturdays), and in fact today my casual group is gathering for a game of peasant, EDH, and Chaos Magic (our own little house game), and of the four of us, only two have been to an FNM at all, and only I have been to an FNM within the past few months to a year.
[creepy horror narrator voice]We are out there... lurking in the shadows, hiding in basements or gathered around kitchen tables, and playing... playing with decks that cost less than $10 total, and we use them... over and over again, sometimes without buying any cards.... for weeks or months on end! Mwa ha ha ha ha![/creepy horror narrator voice].
Seriously though, you can play Magic on very little if you choose to. If you like being competitive and don't mind sinking a lot of cash into your hobby, cool, but for others that don't feel like making sacrifices in other areas of their life to fuel their colored cardboard habit, then they have the right and shouldn't be derided because of that choice.
Oh, so true... but man that little bit of real life horror real did have me reelin'. I have a casual playgroup as well but it's more like a Clan than that because we go to events together, profit together and support each other. But I know I couldn't stand playing with the same decks over and over again. Which is why I normally spend a good part of my day, each day, building something new...
But I know I couldn't stand playing with the same decks over and over again. Which is why I normally spend a good part of my day, each day, building something new...
What are some of the more interesting decks that you've come up with? I love to build new decks but they usually aren't the most interesting (Oh boy, another aggro-control deck!). A mono-Blue aggro deck was the most unique creation that I've come up with.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
What are some of the more interesting decks that you've come up with? I love to build new decks but they usually aren't the most interesting (Oh boy, another aggro-control deck!). A mono-Blue aggro deck was the most unique creation that I've come up with.
I came up with a crazy concoction a few months ago that I called Neo-Rock in Extended. It could basically destroy blue decks, and midrange like Doran. It had a favorable matchup against Zoo but would lose to Faeries until SB Eyes of the Wisent. But with the banning of Sensei's Divining Top I lost the major advantage of the unique synergy with Dark Confidant to pick through my deck at a breakneck speed. I also used Safewright Quest to dig up Overgrown Tombs and Godless Shrine. I also ran 3x Tree of Tales with Edge of Autumn to cycle through the deck and pump Tarmogoyf... and I also ran Nameless Inversion. Oh and the craziest thing about the deck is that I never once got mana screwed with a land base of 16 LANDS!! It placed first in three different weekend tournaments in my area.
My wife and I are budget players since we have a kid and I am a stay-at-home dad, so thank you for the article.
With that in mind, I do well (8th-12th out of 20) every time I play at a FNM with my Budget R/G Warrior deck. My whole decklist comes to $16 and it is fun as hell and competitive enough for me. Monoblack Rogues can also be done under $20 now that Eagwig Squadron is getting cheap and I have good results with that deck too. I can't beat tier 1 stuff most of the time, but I can give them a run for their money.
We then decided to restrict ourselves to mono-colored, no-rares-at-all decks for both of us. And I tell you what, games were much shorter, but also incredibly more fun. Of course the control aspects were pushed back a lot, but aggro just is more fun to play anyway So every one of us had these cheap weenie decks, and we were happily rotating large chunks of the cards in there to find the optimum in cards we had. That were really good times.
I quit playing in 2002, and started out again a few months back. Of course I had kept all my decks from back then, and when I decided to visit a local store to play some games (without doing any research at all about what's played these days), it soon became clear to me that my "good" decks from back then stand no chance at all against today's. The only deck I managed to get me some wins at least was my mono-red, no-rare-at-all Sligh. Funny, in a way.
Even in my competitive decks tend to be crazy and have that one card that makes others go, What? Why? Oh..
Dr.KnowMaD
I believe this should be "players"
Mono Green Elf Ball??
Thanks Evil. No amount of editors ensures that final documents are perfect. Just ask any major corporation.
Looks pretty nice. I have a Peasant Deck that works in a similar way:
4 Selesnya Geuildmage
4 Bramble Elemental
4 Wirewood Gaurdian
Spells:
4 Skred
4 Rolling Thunder
4 Branching Bolt
4 Into the North
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Fists of Ironwood
Lands:
3 Snow-Covered Plains
7 Snow-Covered Mountain
13 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
Similar sort of fun, though I haven't tuned this at all. I need to swap in more removal or something like Giantbaiting.
When I lose in a type 1 tournament to what other people would call scrubs, I like to reveal my hand and present the options I had. If I can make my opponent realise that their budget deck did not outplay me or startle me, but pretty much broke me in half by playing by a widely different set of rules than I did, I did my job of making them realise that the fact they won is not due to "budget vs moneyz" but to a clash in strategies in which they had the upper hand. Disruptive fast aggro will always be the doom of control-slaver, because when turn 1 welder and turn 3 platinum angel gets sworded, and that no drain can get high enough to power up that sundering titan, I'm screwed.
The point it: once the budget player realises his deck is budget and doesn't try to use a strategy recquiring expensive cards, he can focus and not half-ass his gameplan and then win against deck considered widely better.
And I try to never get mad when I lose to "bad decks", cause it happens, and you usually top 8 anyway when X-1-0 ;p
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
The trick is finding people to play with, of course, who share your beliefs about cards. In reailty, there are tons of people who print out the occasional proxy for their casual group. Need a fourth bitterblossom to round out your deck? No problem; just print it out and sleeve it, placing it on top of a land or something worthless. I buy most all of my cards and have spent thousands. However, when testing a new deck idea, and when the store down the street doesn't have enough copies of the one card I need for my deck to work, of course I will print out proxies for my casual group. As long as you let everyone know what you have proxied and why, rarely do people have any issues with it.
The bad case is the occasional person who prints out EVERYTHING. I know a person like this, and he plays in a play group that tolerates it because he supposedly had all the original cards at one point but then sold them and later regretted it. I think he's full of it. But they tolerate it.
Nevertheless, I find it odd that printing out cards isn't really talked about in the article. The fact that it violates copyright isn't a big deal with me, as it's not as though I am attempting to sell the printed card. My moral is, buy the card whenever possible, but if it's not possible, why let that stop you from enjoying the game? That's playing on a budget!
Grats on the obfuscated trolling. Let those with little money everywhere rejoice: they can just play Hop-Scotch instead.
Your “argument” is similar to asking someone who can’t afford the software to just “use something else.” There is often little substitute for the real deal (hence rampant software piracy) or the substitutes themselves are quite inferior (try finding people who use “MS Paint” professionally, Maddox aside).
Magic is not a life necessity. However if someone can spend some money towards it why should they stop because it’s “not enough”? WoW (at the full rate of $15/month) is cheap compared to Magic… if you buy new cards regularly. Some Magic players don’t spend ANY money and play just fine. I personally know one such individual (and play with him regularly).
Your statement is grossly mean and ignorant of how diverse the people in the real world are. Or, in the words of a former US vice-presidential candidate: “Thanks, but no thanks.”
Because proxies aren't real Magic. You can't play in real tournaments with them. You aren't supporting WotC (You know, where all the cards come from?) and it makes it very easy to rig a deck (Cut to Yawgmoth's Will every time? Yes, please.) Proxies aren't the ultimate answer to budget: they are the ultimate cop out, the failure to follow through and play the real game.
When I proxy cards I do it to test before I go and buy the cards I need. Proxying is a tool to be used, not the house to live in. Magic was, and still is, designed to be played where not everyone would have copies of every card available. This is why certain cards and functions see print regularly: they are expected to be needed at some point.
I don't want this to devolve into an argument about design, acquiring play sets, and how cards should work. As many of my friends would implore: please don't proxy, expect to be allowed to proxy, or openly accept all proxying. Limited amounts when you are in the process of acquiring the cards is great (so you don't spend money you don't need to, and idea we can all aprpeciate) but ultimately it doesn't help you be a Magic player any more than playing on something like MWS. We all know how full MWS is with players with awesome skills and playing ethics; it's a great place to experience true Magic. [/sarcasm]
By the way, where do you print your proxies? I find high quality printing and ink to be an expensive proposition to do all the time from home, and the text templates of cards to be ugly (which is why I proxy using that template; I'm getting rid of the proxy ASAP).
The funny thing is, even though my entire lifes collection was the size of a normal guys 1 year collection, i always did fairly well at fnm or w/e it was back then. I never did get first place but i remember being happy about getting second versus the rich kids.
And now, here I am with enough money to play any top level deck I want. I came back into magic in the lorwyn block. I bought a box of lorwyn, and made some red/green/black deck, and took it to my first real type 2 fnm. About half the players there play net decks. And guess what? I got second place my first day. For the next like 7 or so fnms i took budget decks to those fnms and I got 2nd place every time but maybe 1.
But what does that matter? You guys will just chalk up my success to "oh well your players in your area are just bad" Well i don't know. I looked up most of them, and the best players at my fnm are about 1750 1800 rating. I'm not sure if this is good or not, but since im new to this rating thing my rating is only like 1650. But anyways, one of those guys is the top rated guy in our area with like 1865 or something like that.
Then one week i went and bought a net deck. I took it to fnm and got 4th place. Like my worst placing ever! I get a net deck and do terrible! But i guess it was a lack of experience with the deck because I won my next fnm with it, my first 1'st place finish ever!
Why am i saying this? I don't know. I've never been to a big tourny likestates or anything. When i do go, i probably wont be taking a budet deck to see how well I do. But I think being a budget player my whole life made me a better player overall, due to having to learn how to make decks and outwit my opponent. But it kinda sucks for people who make a budget deck and its just ignored on the forums. Any success with said deck will be "chalked up to bad opponents".
RIDE FOR THE FALL OF HIS POWER FIGHTING THE STORM, THE ROAR OF THE THUNDER, ALLY OF THE SUN AND THE MOON... GREAT SWORDMASTER RULE!
Who says I'm trolling? I voiced my opinion. If your going to write an article then expect critisizm, don't call people who don't agree with you trolls it just shows that your immature and shouldn't be a writer. That aside the fact of the matter is that if you are so straped for cash that you can only scrape up 15$ every other week to draft, then you need another hobby... like gardening. Magic is expensive by any budget. But scraping by and trying to still make a showing in a competitive environment is just going to annoy the true Spikes that have a decent soul at your meeting ground because personally I hate beating the "kid down the road who plays with his weekly lunch money."
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
You have *no* place to tell people that they shouldn't play Magic just because they are poor. You have *no* place to tell people that they basically *must* have a top-tier deck or not go to the tournaments to "annoy you."
Certainly people can voice opinions, but you manage to do so in an insulting and derogatory way, just to get the attention and responses.
My point exactly, do you love playing MtG more than the cigs you smoke? I know I do which is why I buy a 15$ bag of tobacco and tubes to roll my own. I go and actually shop logically instead of just take-out and I use coupons. And I have a good career and plenty of money but I also love to spend the money on things I enjoy. It's called priorities. So what if I have a complete 4 set of every set since Ravnica and many other cards beyond that. I earned it and spent my money wisely. And I go to the Pre/Release Events and get the cards cheap at the very beginning before the prices rocket.
And no I'm not being insulting to anyone. Seriously if you've been playing for years and haven't figured out how to come by cards beyond your budget then you need to learn. Not get mad at me because I am pointing out the fact that your wasting your time and money on a hobby you can't afford.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
I'm glad you like the idea. Obviously tournament play is a different beat altogether from the casual Limited you and your friends would set up. There are "budget" tournament decks, but they scale very differently across all the formats: budget Standard is well less than half the cost of budget Vintage, for example.
Clearly, budget is an additional handicap at tournament play. Is there success to be found with budget at tournaments? Absolutely. Otherwise, no one would even try to bring budget to an FNM or PTQ. Is budget the best choice for any given tournament? Most likely not and I wouldn't recommend trying all the time.
This is why I stuck with the more casual/non-tournament side. Given a special format (like Peasant or Pauper) competitive and budget are forced together in an interesting way. When the format is defined by the natural restrictions of "budget" it becomes easy to stay competitive. I just want those of you who read the article to understand that I don't believe the budget belongs in every tournament.
If you win, though, by all means post the information here. Winning "when it counts" on a budget is, I feel, more exciting than winning with a net deck full of higher priced cards. It's all in my head, I know, but it just feel so good to win differently, and I would guess that some of you will understand. (Others, probably not as much.)
I don't see how its any more of a waste of time.
I personal like to not sleeve something budget just for beating face and annoying high horses as yourself(talon, you might not be, I am just telling you how you come off, don't get mad, I'm just pointing out the facts)
People play Magic because they love it. That's what maters. Not your budget.
Dr.KnowMaD
Yeah, that's a good piece of advice. Two of my favorite variants of magic are almost free, pauper and mental magic, and they give me more enjoyment than does regular type 2.
Anyways, regular constructed isn't the only way to enjoy magic.
Playing sealed with physical cards is a lot of fun and the cards you get can be used to build peasant decks later on.
What I like to do is to build a big Highlander deck and then tweak that deck as new sets come out. That way I can have a good deck and not have to spend a lot of money.
Magic is really expensive if you want to keep up with the latest and the greatest. But using online free software and then budgeting how much you spend on physical cards will make life a lot easier for you.
www.CinderGirl.com
It's an impossible balance to strike between working with a budget and tournament success. For myself, this is why I caved and decided to lay tournaments to rest: I couldn't properly keep up and I was satisfied with my level of success (Top 4s at FNMs). I knew I couldn't move up and without significant investment I wouldn't achieve satisfying success even at just FNM.
I've given MWS a try but found it to be trying. While I like that I can use any cards, and even some custom card sets, the lack of rule enforcement and immaturity of the few players I did run into left a bad taste in my mouth.
I can see the great advantage it would have for teams and international testing: playing games with any cards available without having to shell out for it in Magic Online (or, in other words, proxying over the internet) is pretty awesome when you're testing or working out a new deck. I just don't feel that it is the most appropriate answer to having a budget: it doesn't support the people who live to make the game, or the store owners that provide space and tournament organization locally.
For the record, I do enjoy Mental Magic. I'm also terrible at it.
But I am going to go ahead and just say that if you really enjoy MtG you probably are not getting what you want out of 15$ every other week. And if I am correct here and you actually have a job with other financial responsibilities then you might want to sit down a write out a real budget and see where you can make a few sacrifices so you can increase your MtG budget because 15$ is really going to keep you behind the other guys at FNM that don't have a budget.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
Of course, not everyone plays in FNMs either... most casual players gather in their own groups and play, or go to Gateway type events (such as at my local shop on Saturdays), and in fact today my casual group is gathering for a game of peasant, EDH, and Chaos Magic (our own little house game), and of the four of us, only two have been to an FNM at all, and only I have been to an FNM within the past few months to a year.
[creepy horror narrator voice]We are out there... lurking in the shadows, hiding in basements or gathered around kitchen tables, and playing... playing with decks that cost less than $10 total, and we use them... over and over again, sometimes without buying any cards.... for weeks or months on end! Mwa ha ha ha ha![/creepy horror narrator voice].
Seriously though, you can play Magic on very little if you choose to. If you like being competitive and don't mind sinking a lot of cash into your hobby, cool, but for others that don't feel like making sacrifices in other areas of their life to fuel their colored cardboard habit, then they have the right and shouldn't be derided because of that choice.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
Oh, so true... but man that little bit of real life horror real did have me reelin'. I have a casual playgroup as well but it's more like a Clan than that because we go to events together, profit together and support each other. But I know I couldn't stand playing with the same decks over and over again. Which is why I normally spend a good part of my day, each day, building something new...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
What are some of the more interesting decks that you've come up with? I love to build new decks but they usually aren't the most interesting (Oh boy, another aggro-control deck!). A mono-Blue aggro deck was the most unique creation that I've come up with.
I came up with a crazy concoction a few months ago that I called Neo-Rock in Extended. It could basically destroy blue decks, and midrange like Doran. It had a favorable matchup against Zoo but would lose to Faeries until SB Eyes of the Wisent. But with the banning of Sensei's Divining Top I lost the major advantage of the unique synergy with Dark Confidant to pick through my deck at a breakneck speed. I also used Safewright Quest to dig up Overgrown Tombs and Godless Shrine. I also ran 3x Tree of Tales with Edge of Autumn to cycle through the deck and pump Tarmogoyf... and I also ran Nameless Inversion. Oh and the craziest thing about the deck is that I never once got mana screwed with a land base of 16 LANDS!! It placed first in three different weekend tournaments in my area.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
With that in mind, I do well (8th-12th out of 20) every time I play at a FNM with my Budget R/G Warrior deck. My whole decklist comes to $16 and it is fun as hell and competitive enough for me. Monoblack Rogues can also be done under $20 now that Eagwig Squadron is getting cheap and I have good results with that deck too. I can't beat tier 1 stuff most of the time, but I can give them a run for their money.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.