Intriguing. I think I know a Dave. I still play him though. I remember when I first beat his deck. He was very upset, and said that his deck was no longer good because I beat it. I think this was because he had some sort of unexplainable grudge against me. Possibly because I was a freshman.
oh dear god, this sounds like someone I know. there's this guy I play FNM with everyweek and I always pray that I don't have to face off against him. he can't build anything original to save his life, and netdeck relentlessly. he's always got yada yada card foiled and signed in a different language by Richard Garfield, and his only goal is to win. recently, we sat down and he borrowed a deck of mine to play with. he mocked the card choices, moaning and gripping the whole time about what I was using. what a ****ing jerk.
in the end, I started actually calling him out on it. whenever he whined about what we were drafting, I told him to leave his *****ing and moaning at the front door. I've smacked him around with a janky copy of toast before, and on another occasion ate his doran deck alive with necroskitter. both times he got moody and silent afterwards, and wouldn't talk to me.
please, if any of you are a dave, think of what your doing to your friends at FNM. if they're not sick of you yet, they will be.
overall, good article. keep up the work, man.
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Nice article.
The only thing I have to say is that it's only focused on 'Mr.Suitcase' Dave (Spike-Dave) and not the other types of Dave you presented us, those imho are by far more interesting.
btw what profile would a person playing Daves to chnge them be?
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very interesting article. I think I'll probably go back and read the first one.
By stroke of luck, I know someone who is named Dave, and enjoys the suffering of others( he does't play magic though, he is just...a little odd >_>)
We did have someone like this a while back. The guy that played T2 competitive decks against our casual pool -- playing Dredge = not fun. ever. when you don't even know what a sideboard does
I never read the first article but would like to point out that if Wizards designs cards for three distinct player types, then Daves cannot fit into that group because Wizards does not design cards for them.
That being said, I think I might have a little Dave in me, but I'm trying to figure a couple things out.
First off, I'm not a Dave when I'm playing casual, only when I play tournaments. Am I still a Dave if I only play to annoy (I don't like the word "torture") strangers? Secondly, even when I am playing said tournaments I believe that I am courteous and respectful, at least verbally. Does a Dave have to be an outward jerk, or just in his card and play choices?
I like to think of myself as a Dadaist artist when I play my three-faceless-butcher combo deck to a draw. I don't particularly care that much about winning, but about achieving my arbitrarily created side goals that irritate all those hardcore Spikes that I'm not much of a fan of. Am I still a Dave if I only target a certain psychographic?
I know a lot of people that might a little Dave in them (me included) and I'm sure we could all name some from the forums. The most common type of Dave, I think, is the type that aren't so much jerks, but just want to win when they show up to a tournament. And, don't we all? They might just be a bit more obvious about it. I know someone who has a bit of Dave in him, but he's nice enough. He just has a desire to win, and he does win. In fact I've never beaten him in a sanctioned tournament. Good for him, his rating is over 1900 even. That's his business, and if he wants to do his best, who are we to say he's a bad person or a jerk. If someone is respectful than we have no real point against them. That's just what I think.
We can all a little (or a lot of) Dave from time to time. Recognizing that behaviors we may not consider offensive, rude, or obnoxious may actually be hurtful to others is paramount to creating a better playing experience. Tournament play can be very challenging and competitive, but there is no reason even there to be rude and unsportsmanlike.
Casual is a whole different bucket of worms: Daves can get out of hand when nobody is packing higher-caliber decks. Rudeness can extend into gray areas like deck archetypes, cards used, and efficiency of the deck - and it depends all upon the attitudes and opinions of the play group, and the confessed Dave in the article seems aware of this but chose to ignore it. Ultimately, it comes back to self respect and integrity to admit you may be causes others a problem.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
i am a dave, and it kind of sucks to not be able to let a little kid just starting out beat me. I destroy who every is in my way at the causal table. A little story i went to a new group of gamers and played two group games and won both with little restance(i was using a block shamans deck and they were using what ever they had) and then i kind of gloated since i was playing by such restricted card rules. So any way i go to the group again at a later date and they are asking for players for a group game...so i speak up...and of course they were all full at that moment...but it was at that time i relized what a jerk i have been and it even stopped me from playing for awhile.
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MTG Salvation: where you show people a reasonable card, and they complain it isn't good. Then you show them a good card, and they complain it isn't broke
I know a lot of people that might a little Dave in them (me included) and I'm sure we could all name some from the forums. The most common type of Dave, I think, is the type that aren't so much jerks, but just want to win when they show up to a tournament. And, don't we all? They might just be a bit more obvious about it. I know someone who has a bit of Dave in him, but he's nice enough. He just has a desire to win, and he does win. In fact I've never beaten him in a sanctioned tournament. Good for him, his rating is over 1900 even. That's his business, and if he wants to do his best, who are we to say he's a bad person or a jerk. If someone is respectful than we have no real point against them. That's just what I think.
That's not a Dave, that's a Spike.
Dave actively demoralizes his opponents. He stopped caring about wining, but cares about the pain of others. He doesn't want to win he wants his opponents to lose, and theirs a very distinct difference there.
Wow..... I may be a Dave.
Eh, who cares. Crying is for babies.
If someone can't take harsh critizism then they should sell me thier cards and quite playing Magic and go back to CoD and Halo.
Wow..... I may be a Dave.
Eh, who cares. Crying is for babies.
If someone can't take harsh critizism then they should sell me thier cards and quite playing Magic and go back to CoD and Halo.
So you enjoy being mocked, mentally strangled, and prodded by inappropriate behavior in your games of Magic? (And for that matter the Dave concept extends to most games; in CoD and Halo it's going to be the "1337" who intentionally talk smack on "noobs" and pick on any "noobs" they find rather than support other strategic objectives.)
Accepted (via ignorance or common natures) and acceptable (the moral/social standards that are set to ensure at least generally friendly play) are two very different things. At tournaments you go to win. Competitive is acceptable but being a rude jerk isn't, despite the fact that many players simply accept the poor behavior.
Grats and being a jerk: harsh criticism doesn't have to be deconstructive. You can provide very harsh or scathing criticism of an idea by being constructive as well - some ideas are just, well, really dumb (like handing out cash in the street...).
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
I remember one time I brought an Extended (at that time) Fluctuator deck that cycled creature cards in the graveyard, then casted Songs of the Damned and Drain Life for the win. I played it in a 4 person group game and went third, going off before one player even got to take a turn. One player said, "I'm not going to play in group games if I don't get to take a turn." That player was sporting a 250 card Battle of Wits deck, so I Drained him first. I rolled a die between the other two players and Drained the other one (I only had two copies of Drain Life in the deck). I passed the turn, the only opponent left dropped a land and said "Go." I untapped, passed upkeep, and died when I couldn't draw because there were no more cards left in my deck. I never did that again, but I'll admit, that was fun. My favorite group game deck is a deck I called "Life" which, other than basic lands, every card in the deck had the word "life" printed on it somewhere. So I'd get up to about 200 life, drop a Phyrexian Processor for 40/40, see the look on others faces, and say, "What, it says 'life'... see, 'Pay X life." They actually gave me credit and love for making a fun/competitive group game deck. I don't think I'm a Dave, because I generally encouraged good plays when I'm playing and allow people to take stuff back. Of course this is at a low level FNM or Saturday draft, but I mean if someone doesn't learn how to play better at a tournament, who's going to teach them? I kind of got out of constructed play and just do drafts/sealed right now because constructed was (1) too expensive and (2) started to bore me. I usually placed at FNM for prize when I played in Type 2 back in Time Spiral days. I still do get upset if I get mana screwed/flooded, but aren't we all allowed to do that. I try not to be offensive, but I do say stuff like, "Wow, when you draw 11 lands and 5 non-land spells, you can't expect to win, right?" I also notice when my opponent had a similar situation and try to encourage them by saying stuff like, "Hey, you got flooded and only played 3 spells to your 8 lands. Maybe next game we'll be able to play one for real, huh? Either that, or it'll be my turn to get screwed." So yea, I really can't be a Dave.
For the people who have difficulties differentiating Spike and Dave.
Spike: plays Draw Go, because it's the best deck (assuming it was).
Dave: plays Draw Go, because it means you won't ever get to play your own strategy.
Dave is the guy who shows up at your tournament with something like TurboFog. A subpar deck that won't ever win a tourney, but will annoy a maximum of people.
For the people who have difficulties differentiating Spike and Dave.
Spike: plays Draw Go, because it's the best deck (assuming it was).
Dave: plays Draw Go, because it means you won't ever get to play your own strategy.
Dave is the guy who shows up at your tournament with something like TurboFog. A subpar deck that won't ever win a tourney, but will annoy a maximum of people.
Or I show up with a MBC deck that is full of Discard and Kill with absolutely no win conditions.
First of all, what you're trying to pass as a fourth psychographic is actually a personality trait that may appear on Timmies, Johnnies, Spikes, Vorthos, Melvins and Marias alike (more on Maria in a while). They're called Prima Donnas, and theirs is a permanent behavior not necessarily exclusive to Magic alone.
You need to understand that a Prima Donna's primary concern is his ego. He's a taker, and he doesn't like having things outside of his control. The funny thing about Prima Donnas is that they're only as damaging as you let them be. Once you understand his issues you get to understand his weak points as well, and then you're free to either hit him where it hurts, or sidestep the problem completely.
Truth be told, I've come to enjoy the occasional game against a Prima Donna. They tend to be worthwhile competitive opponents, and the fact they know their taunts is always a plus when you're seriously looking to improve your psych game. Crushing them is very rewarding, and losing to them is just as large an issue as you let it become. Frankly, Prima Donnas are part of life and they're not going away after one article or one hundred.
Which brings me to my second point: Maria. While Dave is all about ego, Maria is all about insecurity. He defines himself by what others think of him, so he's often found in the role of the class clown, the "social" player and the "artist." Maria can't cope with others showing him disapproval, disappointment or disdain, so he will play whoever, whatever and however he finds the most approval.
What puts Dave and Maria at such odds is that they're both fighting for the spotlight. Maria is subtle and requires constant attention, so when Dave comes around and hoards the attention with both hands to satisfy his ego, Maria feels threatened. Even worse, Dave has absolutely no problem in belittling Maria, who, faced with open disapproval over his image, crumbles and eventually moves on to other things.
My advice to both is: grow up. Magic is a game. Sometimes that means everything's a stake, while other times it means it's just that, a game. Most of the time it's just a game for one player while to the other one it's something more. Learning how to be a big boy, win, lose, take criticism, soak an open attack and retort, well, that's life, and it's not going away anytime soon.
So the next time someone leaves a game feeling better (or worse) than you, just do what I do: shrug, shuffle and move on to the next game. Trust me, you'll feel better in no time.
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People hiss and grunt at Mark Rosewater for the state of the game. Few realize, though, that it is Aaron Forsythe who is directly responsible of the current state of affairs due to negligence as head of Magic R&D and a completely skewed view of the game as a whole.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
I know a dave he's some guy at my FNMs that i hate drafting with cuz all he does is critisize and complian about every little thing I'm like gah shut up i don't care! if i was playing for a cash prize then i might but i'm not here to listen to you moan and attack me i'm here to have fun!
My little bro has Asperger syndrome making him very onesided and hyper foucused on single tasks, he's has very poor social skills, so when it comes down to something he can't deal with he get fursterated and when he plays magic he can be very much like a dave, although i know that he can't help most of it. I still play with him but once he gets cocky and pridefull i just stop playing or desteroy him with one of my powerdecks.
Maybe most daves are people with very poor social skills and therefor are very unaware of the effects of thier demoralizating aditude and citiziem because they are having "fun" that way, and if they are having "fun" they can not understand why the person they are attacking isn't. Sort of like the inability to put one's self into anothers shoes, or being selfish and apathetic towards other people.
another thought is that daves are addicted to the hollow power of putting people down because they themselves are insecure people and therefor the only way they can feel incontrol is to attack other people's confidence, or that they get a rush from insulting people.
In conclusion i can handle the daves in my life because i am apathetic towards the games outcome aswell as thier attacks towards me because i know that what they are saying is more out of instability than it is truth.
I also really enjoyed the article it is awesome when some one is able to realize what they are doing is huring people and the game, and then they are trying to improve themselves.
Yeah the thing is Dave isn't usually simply a person in Magic, he's a sadist malevolent person in all aspects of life. The Dave interviewed perhaps not, but the usual Dave is. For example I tryed playing CoD 4 the other day for the first time. I said hi and was immediately trash talked by a bunch of "Daves". I left the game, found a new one, and the same thing happened, I muted everyone, found yet another game and there were yet more daves (it wasn't even about my play style or anything, I would just say "hi guy's i'm new to this" and they took that as an invitation to insult any part of me they could think of). I no longer play CoD 4.
To the person who was saying n00bs should go play Halo or CoD I've got to tell you something:
The term "Dave" is far too nice. You literally are the scum of the earth, the mud on the bottom of my shoe is higher in any aspect of life than you. If you're playing games inside of your head and getting a good laugh from yourself please, open your eyes, theres a world where there are other people who experience a phenomenon called emotion. This is similar to that smile you get from being an ass to someone, the difference is that other people can experience positive emotions while not causing other people to experience negative ones. Being at rock bottom, the lowest of the low the good news is that you have no where to go but up. You could stay where you are, but if you are mentally staying where you are then please, do us all a favor and physically stay where you are too.
I've known this about myself for a long time. In fact we used to call it being a Chuck or a Dan, as that is my name and that of another competetive player who built stuff like me.
I do not like playing T1 decks, I like to create my own, but they tend to be insidious in nature. I love only having to win game 1, then running out of time in game 2, means i don't really have to think about sideboarding.
i miss the days when you could pack 22 counters, 4 Time Elementals, and 10 minor threats and watch your opponent turn red in frustration. I will draw out a game I am losing or winning just to see if I can pull it out and make my opponenet suffer, in the case of winning, I do it to unsettle and annoy my opponent.
I will jump through insane hoops to draw cards. I get goosebumps when any set brings back cycling. I embraced Urza's Saga and Combo Winter. When Memory Jar was playable for exactly 1 Extended PTQ, I played it.
i am overly cautious, I will wait 5 extra turns to kill you, just to make sure i do not get caught by a lucky top deck.
Mana screw infurriates me, and i will never comiserate with someone who loses because the had to triple mulligan. i will become a jerk if you tell me you hate to win that way, becasue I know deep down everyone breaths a sigh of relief when thier opponent has to mulligan more than once.
I've known this about myself for years. I would get so mad and indignant that I quit the game and sold everything right after Invasion dropped. Then after reading the spoiler for Mirrodin I started playing again, and at first I played fun stuff, but then got serious again, and right after Time Spiral released, I sold everthing again.
I didn't learn my lesson. I started again with the release of Morningtide, tried to take the game a little less seriously, and did have fun for a while. i became known as an inovator, someone who would build a somewhat competetive deck around the worst card possible, just because I was challenged to do it. i could feel the anger and madness coming on again, so I started to sell stuff again, I sold all my blue/white first, then everything but the a T1 RDW, and a weird but fun Prismatic Omen deck.
When Shards released I did well at a fwe release events, and at the Grand Prix Qualifier, and used my earnings to build a decent Jund control deck. The FNM before states I played it and didnt do so well. I almost lost it.
i put the headphones on, listened to some pantera while smoking, walk back into the store, held up my deck bag, and asked who had $150. No one answered, so I lowered it to $100. Some guy I had never met gave me 5 twenties and I went home.
I lost a lot that night. 2 arabian mountains, every Richard Kane furgeson legends card signed, 100+ beta land, playsets of original Arena forests, plains, and swamps, plus some unglued and unhinged lands. I gave up al the standard playable red/white, and some of the better Jund rares/mythics.
I replaced them with a clearer picture of who I am when i play this game after nearly 15 years. i got a monkey off of my back, and have even returned to the shop, and been asked to be a deck pilot only, or a valued playtest partner. i will never again play standard MTG. I may dabble a bit in Legacy and Vintage where all casual decks are fun and cut-throat at the same time, but where I would have to make to large of an investment to play cometetively.
My advice to other Daves (or whatever it is called where you play, normally you name): If you already have an abrasive personality, anger management issures, or a general dislike fo rthe rest of humanity, find another hobby. You may not think it now, but someday you will actually see and understand the expressions on the faces of your opponents, you will actually hear what they are saying about you, or even worse, you will realize and comprehend the words that are coming out of your own mouth. If these things do not bother you at some point in your life, you are a degenerate human being and deserve all that happens to you.
I just hope that otehrs can realize this about themselves and change or find soemthing more condusive to thier personality.
You know what... I am a Dave. No more thinking about it and wondering. Dave's the name.
I've read through some of these posts and I just want to look you people in the eyes just to see what's there. I am imagining a mirror image of myself in your eyes grinning back because while I may be brash, harsh and indignant... the rest of you are just as bad in other pathetic ways. I could list them but then again I don't feel like wasting my time with hypocrites.
Everyone talks smack during MtG. And if you don't then you should. If you can't handle the heat get out of the fire. I was in the ARMY and military men/women are the worst trash talking s.o.b's that you'll ever meet and we all have the stomach to handle a fortitude endurance round with anyone.
Psyching is the term I'm thinking of, which has been used in every competitive sport ever known to man. And card games are no different. Seriously stop whining and get your own attitude a readjustment makeover and talk smack too. You'll both enjoy it. (You and the Dave you have a problem with)
You know what... I am a Dave. No more thinking about it and wondering. Dave's the name.
I've read through some of these posts and I just want to look you people in the eyes just to see what's there. I am imagining a mirror image of myself in your eyes grinning back because while I may be brash, harsh and indignant... the rest of you are just as bad in other pathetic ways. I could list them but then again I don't feel like wasting my time with hypocrites.
Everyone talks smack during MtG. And if you don't then you should. If you can't handle the heat get out of the fire. I was in the ARMY and military men/women are the worst trash talking s.o.b's that you'll ever meet and we all have the stomach to handle a fortitude endurance round with anyone.
Psyching is the term I'm thinking of, which has been used in every competitive sport ever known to man. And card games are no different. Seriously stop whining and get your own attitude a readjustment makeover and talk smack too. You'll both enjoy it. (You and the Dave you have a problem with)
It's not about doing it a couple of times, it about doing it all the time. everyone has done it but not every one consistantly does it. The differance between the "daves" and your "hypocrites" as you would call them is that thoes "hypocrites" aren't consistantly doing it on a regular basis. Also have you ever hear of quite intensity? instead of wasteing your energy trash talking use it to perform better.
It's not about doing it a couple of times, it about doing it all the time. everyone has done it but not every one consistantly does it. The differance between the "daves" and your "hypocrites" as you would call them is that thoes "hypocrites" aren't consistantly doing it on a regular basis. Also have you ever hear of quite intensity? instead of wasteing your energy trash talking use it to perform better.
I have a high metabolism so my energy levels are pretty high. I'm not worried about it. Besides quiet intensity doesn't do anything but make you a quiet person, it really has no outcome on the game. Whereas I could frustrate you and your going to make play mistakes.
TaLoN, you kind of missed the point. Talking smack (extremely common in my play group) is very different (I would even say almost completely opposite) to being a Dave. A guy that throws garbage at his mates because, well, it's just a game, is quite another person than the guy that doesn't know when to stop. Can't see when the onlookers start to roll their eyes. Can't see them turn away, because just lsitening to him is painful. Can't see his opponent go all quiet and eager to just get the humiliation over with.
If you're the second type of person, you have a problem. Try facing it. If you do, and can't see a problem with it, then, frankly, there's something wrong with you and this game (and the world) would be better off without you.
Funny thing is I didn't miss the point. The point is that a Dave would rather have fun by being as ruthless and dirty as possible. That includes playstyle, in game language, and anything else that has to do with the game. Dave prides himself in other people's misery.
And to be honest, I am a Dave. I love it when I see the face of my opponent when I throw my entire hand to a Raven's Crime just to destroy their hand. I love ***ing the board even when I have board advantage so I can see their "trash" where it belongs. I don't care about winning as much as I care about messing with the minds of my opponents.
I like making casual decks based off of Discard only or Counterspells or Kill with no win conditions just so my opponent gets tired and scoops in frustration so I can laugh and tell them there was no win condition in the deck.
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in the end, I started actually calling him out on it. whenever he whined about what we were drafting, I told him to leave his *****ing and moaning at the front door. I've smacked him around with a janky copy of toast before, and on another occasion ate his doran deck alive with necroskitter. both times he got moody and silent afterwards, and wouldn't talk to me.
please, if any of you are a dave, think of what your doing to your friends at FNM. if they're not sick of you yet, they will be.
overall, good article. keep up the work, man.
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The only thing I have to say is that it's only focused on 'Mr.Suitcase' Dave (Spike-Dave) and not the other types of Dave you presented us, those imho are by far more interesting.
btw what profile would a person playing Daves to chnge them be?
By stroke of luck, I know someone who is named Dave, and enjoys the suffering of others( he does't play magic though, he is just...a little odd >_>)
We did have someone like this a while back. The guy that played T2 competitive decks against our casual pool -- playing Dredge = not fun. ever. when you don't even know what a sideboard does
That being said, I think I might have a little Dave in me, but I'm trying to figure a couple things out.
First off, I'm not a Dave when I'm playing casual, only when I play tournaments. Am I still a Dave if I only play to annoy (I don't like the word "torture") strangers? Secondly, even when I am playing said tournaments I believe that I am courteous and respectful, at least verbally. Does a Dave have to be an outward jerk, or just in his card and play choices?
I like to think of myself as a Dadaist artist when I play my three-faceless-butcher combo deck to a draw. I don't particularly care that much about winning, but about achieving my arbitrarily created side goals that irritate all those hardcore Spikes that I'm not much of a fan of. Am I still a Dave if I only target a certain psychographic?
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Casual is a whole different bucket of worms: Daves can get out of hand when nobody is packing higher-caliber decks. Rudeness can extend into gray areas like deck archetypes, cards used, and efficiency of the deck - and it depends all upon the attitudes and opinions of the play group, and the confessed Dave in the article seems aware of this but chose to ignore it. Ultimately, it comes back to self respect and integrity to admit you may be causes others a problem.
MTG Salvation: where you show people a reasonable card, and they complain it isn't good. Then you show them a good card, and they complain it isn't broke
That's not a Dave, that's a Spike.
Dave actively demoralizes his opponents. He stopped caring about wining, but cares about the pain of others. He doesn't want to win he wants his opponents to lose, and theirs a very distinct difference there.
You should read them.
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen"
Eh, who cares. Crying is for babies.
If someone can't take harsh critizism then they should sell me thier cards and quite playing Magic and go back to CoD and Halo.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
So you enjoy being mocked, mentally strangled, and prodded by inappropriate behavior in your games of Magic? (And for that matter the Dave concept extends to most games; in CoD and Halo it's going to be the "1337" who intentionally talk smack on "noobs" and pick on any "noobs" they find rather than support other strategic objectives.)
Accepted (via ignorance or common natures) and acceptable (the moral/social standards that are set to ensure at least generally friendly play) are two very different things. At tournaments you go to win. Competitive is acceptable but being a rude jerk isn't, despite the fact that many players simply accept the poor behavior.
Grats and being a jerk: harsh criticism doesn't have to be deconstructive. You can provide very harsh or scathing criticism of an idea by being constructive as well - some ideas are just, well, really dumb (like handing out cash in the street...).
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Spike: plays Draw Go, because it's the best deck (assuming it was).
Dave: plays Draw Go, because it means you won't ever get to play your own strategy.
Dave is the guy who shows up at your tournament with something like TurboFog. A subpar deck that won't ever win a tourney, but will annoy a maximum of people.
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Or I show up with a MBC deck that is full of Discard and Kill with absolutely no win conditions.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
First of all, what you're trying to pass as a fourth psychographic is actually a personality trait that may appear on Timmies, Johnnies, Spikes, Vorthos, Melvins and Marias alike (more on Maria in a while). They're called Prima Donnas, and theirs is a permanent behavior not necessarily exclusive to Magic alone.
You need to understand that a Prima Donna's primary concern is his ego. He's a taker, and he doesn't like having things outside of his control. The funny thing about Prima Donnas is that they're only as damaging as you let them be. Once you understand his issues you get to understand his weak points as well, and then you're free to either hit him where it hurts, or sidestep the problem completely.
Truth be told, I've come to enjoy the occasional game against a Prima Donna. They tend to be worthwhile competitive opponents, and the fact they know their taunts is always a plus when you're seriously looking to improve your psych game. Crushing them is very rewarding, and losing to them is just as large an issue as you let it become. Frankly, Prima Donnas are part of life and they're not going away after one article or one hundred.
Which brings me to my second point: Maria. While Dave is all about ego, Maria is all about insecurity. He defines himself by what others think of him, so he's often found in the role of the class clown, the "social" player and the "artist." Maria can't cope with others showing him disapproval, disappointment or disdain, so he will play whoever, whatever and however he finds the most approval.
What puts Dave and Maria at such odds is that they're both fighting for the spotlight. Maria is subtle and requires constant attention, so when Dave comes around and hoards the attention with both hands to satisfy his ego, Maria feels threatened. Even worse, Dave has absolutely no problem in belittling Maria, who, faced with open disapproval over his image, crumbles and eventually moves on to other things.
My advice to both is: grow up. Magic is a game. Sometimes that means everything's a stake, while other times it means it's just that, a game. Most of the time it's just a game for one player while to the other one it's something more. Learning how to be a big boy, win, lose, take criticism, soak an open attack and retort, well, that's life, and it's not going away anytime soon.
So the next time someone leaves a game feeling better (or worse) than you, just do what I do: shrug, shuffle and move on to the next game. Trust me, you'll feel better in no time.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
I know a dave he's some guy at my FNMs that i hate drafting with cuz all he does is critisize and complian about every little thing I'm like gah shut up i don't care! if i was playing for a cash prize then i might but i'm not here to listen to you moan and attack me i'm here to have fun!
My little bro has Asperger syndrome making him very onesided and hyper foucused on single tasks, he's has very poor social skills, so when it comes down to something he can't deal with he get fursterated and when he plays magic he can be very much like a dave, although i know that he can't help most of it. I still play with him but once he gets cocky and pridefull i just stop playing or desteroy him with one of my powerdecks.
Maybe most daves are people with very poor social skills and therefor are very unaware of the effects of thier demoralizating aditude and citiziem because they are having "fun" that way, and if they are having "fun" they can not understand why the person they are attacking isn't. Sort of like the inability to put one's self into anothers shoes, or being selfish and apathetic towards other people.
another thought is that daves are addicted to the hollow power of putting people down because they themselves are insecure people and therefor the only way they can feel incontrol is to attack other people's confidence, or that they get a rush from insulting people.
In conclusion i can handle the daves in my life because i am apathetic towards the games outcome aswell as thier attacks towards me because i know that what they are saying is more out of instability than it is truth.
I also really enjoyed the article it is awesome when some one is able to realize what they are doing is huring people and the game, and then they are trying to improve themselves.
To the person who was saying n00bs should go play Halo or CoD I've got to tell you something:
The term "Dave" is far too nice. You literally are the scum of the earth, the mud on the bottom of my shoe is higher in any aspect of life than you. If you're playing games inside of your head and getting a good laugh from yourself please, open your eyes, theres a world where there are other people who experience a phenomenon called emotion. This is similar to that smile you get from being an ass to someone, the difference is that other people can experience positive emotions while not causing other people to experience negative ones. Being at rock bottom, the lowest of the low the good news is that you have no where to go but up. You could stay where you are, but if you are mentally staying where you are then please, do us all a favor and physically stay where you are too.
I do not like playing T1 decks, I like to create my own, but they tend to be insidious in nature. I love only having to win game 1, then running out of time in game 2, means i don't really have to think about sideboarding.
i miss the days when you could pack 22 counters, 4 Time Elementals, and 10 minor threats and watch your opponent turn red in frustration. I will draw out a game I am losing or winning just to see if I can pull it out and make my opponenet suffer, in the case of winning, I do it to unsettle and annoy my opponent.
I will jump through insane hoops to draw cards. I get goosebumps when any set brings back cycling. I embraced Urza's Saga and Combo Winter. When Memory Jar was playable for exactly 1 Extended PTQ, I played it.
i am overly cautious, I will wait 5 extra turns to kill you, just to make sure i do not get caught by a lucky top deck.
Mana screw infurriates me, and i will never comiserate with someone who loses because the had to triple mulligan. i will become a jerk if you tell me you hate to win that way, becasue I know deep down everyone breaths a sigh of relief when thier opponent has to mulligan more than once.
I've known this about myself for years. I would get so mad and indignant that I quit the game and sold everything right after Invasion dropped. Then after reading the spoiler for Mirrodin I started playing again, and at first I played fun stuff, but then got serious again, and right after Time Spiral released, I sold everthing again.
I didn't learn my lesson. I started again with the release of Morningtide, tried to take the game a little less seriously, and did have fun for a while. i became known as an inovator, someone who would build a somewhat competetive deck around the worst card possible, just because I was challenged to do it. i could feel the anger and madness coming on again, so I started to sell stuff again, I sold all my blue/white first, then everything but the a T1 RDW, and a weird but fun Prismatic Omen deck.
When Shards released I did well at a fwe release events, and at the Grand Prix Qualifier, and used my earnings to build a decent Jund control deck. The FNM before states I played it and didnt do so well. I almost lost it.
i put the headphones on, listened to some pantera while smoking, walk back into the store, held up my deck bag, and asked who had $150. No one answered, so I lowered it to $100. Some guy I had never met gave me 5 twenties and I went home.
I lost a lot that night. 2 arabian mountains, every Richard Kane furgeson legends card signed, 100+ beta land, playsets of original Arena forests, plains, and swamps, plus some unglued and unhinged lands. I gave up al the standard playable red/white, and some of the better Jund rares/mythics.
I replaced them with a clearer picture of who I am when i play this game after nearly 15 years. i got a monkey off of my back, and have even returned to the shop, and been asked to be a deck pilot only, or a valued playtest partner. i will never again play standard MTG. I may dabble a bit in Legacy and Vintage where all casual decks are fun and cut-throat at the same time, but where I would have to make to large of an investment to play cometetively.
My advice to other Daves (or whatever it is called where you play, normally you name): If you already have an abrasive personality, anger management issures, or a general dislike fo rthe rest of humanity, find another hobby. You may not think it now, but someday you will actually see and understand the expressions on the faces of your opponents, you will actually hear what they are saying about you, or even worse, you will realize and comprehend the words that are coming out of your own mouth. If these things do not bother you at some point in your life, you are a degenerate human being and deserve all that happens to you.
I just hope that otehrs can realize this about themselves and change or find soemthing more condusive to thier personality.
Cap
I've read through some of these posts and I just want to look you people in the eyes just to see what's there. I am imagining a mirror image of myself in your eyes grinning back because while I may be brash, harsh and indignant... the rest of you are just as bad in other pathetic ways. I could list them but then again I don't feel like wasting my time with hypocrites.
Everyone talks smack during MtG. And if you don't then you should. If you can't handle the heat get out of the fire. I was in the ARMY and military men/women are the worst trash talking s.o.b's that you'll ever meet and we all have the stomach to handle a fortitude endurance round with anyone.
Psyching is the term I'm thinking of, which has been used in every competitive sport ever known to man. And card games are no different. Seriously stop whining and get your own attitude a readjustment makeover and talk smack too. You'll both enjoy it. (You and the Dave you have a problem with)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
It's not about doing it a couple of times, it about doing it all the time. everyone has done it but not every one consistantly does it. The differance between the "daves" and your "hypocrites" as you would call them is that thoes "hypocrites" aren't consistantly doing it on a regular basis. Also have you ever hear of quite intensity? instead of wasteing your energy trash talking use it to perform better.
I have a high metabolism so my energy levels are pretty high. I'm not worried about it. Besides quiet intensity doesn't do anything but make you a quiet person, it really has no outcome on the game. Whereas I could frustrate you and your going to make play mistakes.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
Funny thing is I didn't miss the point. The point is that a Dave would rather have fun by being as ruthless and dirty as possible. That includes playstyle, in game language, and anything else that has to do with the game. Dave prides himself in other people's misery.
And to be honest, I am a Dave. I love it when I see the face of my opponent when I throw my entire hand to a Raven's Crime just to destroy their hand. I love ***ing the board even when I have board advantage so I can see their "trash" where it belongs. I don't care about winning as much as I care about messing with the minds of my opponents.
I like making casual decks based off of Discard only or Counterspells or Kill with no win conditions just so my opponent gets tired and scoops in frustration so I can laugh and tell them there was no win condition in the deck.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186