This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, [MTGS Classic] It's Called "Class". We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.
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6. Win with class. It's just as satisfying and you won't create a weird tension between you and your newly defeated opponent. "Good game". Sincerely, say good game. It doesn't matter if they played well, or if you played well. It doesn't matter if you made mistakes or they made mistakes, say it. If your opponent is okay and wants to talk about situations, great. You might be able to make suggestions for one another on card choice, play choice, etc. If your opponent doesn't look talkative, be perceptive and let them be. Sign the slip and turn it in.
Actually, I've had plenty of opponents take offense to this one when they got mana-screwed, and some even when I got mana-screwed.
Agree with Istanbul on this one - had it happen at a pre-release (Dissension I believe) down here in Melbourne, Australia.
Third game in a tight last round and my opponent just got severely mana screwed; it's become almost instinct for me to say "Good Game" after any match but this guy lost it and basically told me to stick my "good game" in an anatomically uncomfortable spot
I was kinda surprised as he was an older player (35-ish, maybe older) and I guess I expected a little maturity. What made it worse was that he was there with his son, who would only have been 11 or 12 at best. It didn't look good, and I was slightly embarrassed for him (honestly, it's a pre-release :-/)
Still, I've definitely learned to try and judge the mood of the other person after this incident. I think good sportsmanship is everything, no matter what sort of competition you find yourself in - be it card related or with some sort of ball.
Of course despite all of this, my group still rip heavily on any among us who lose to the little pig-tailed red-head girl who turns up to play with her elder brothers and parents...:D
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You're not your deck.
You're not how much mana you have in your pool.
You're not your half-naked, animè girl card sleeves.
You're not your DCI rating.
You're not your freaking ‘Coldsnap Prerelease’ t-shirt.
You are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the Multiverse.
I have to say this was a pretty good article that all magic players should read. My local shop is riddled with people who are arrogant pricks that think if a weaker player beats them they are complete 'lucksacks' and horrid sore losers. It makes the game not even fun to play when they just talk so much ****. A couple examples:
I am playing swiss rounds in a draft and am sitting next to another two people playing a match. One guy is clearly experienced and the other isn't. The unexperieneced player makes a bad play, and the experienced one exclaims, out loud, "That is one of the worst plays I've ever seen!". Comments like that and the fact that everyone hated the way this kid presented himself got him banned from the shop.
A swiss round had just finished on a later week, and I went up to one kid that is the current replacement of the afore mentioned banned guy (awful demeanor), to ask him how he did. As soon as I sit down he starts on a rant about how that guy was the worst magic player ever and the reason that he lost was only because of his 'lucksackness'. Then he ranted about some card (I forget which) but it was basically a Helium Squirter that caused him to lose.
Quarterfinals at the last city champ quals, I'm playing pred justice, opponent is playing u/b faerie aggro. He's one of those types that you already know when you sit down that he's going to be a major prick if he loses or you do something he doesn't 'approve' of. First game he makes a bad play, misreading what Stonecloaker does, thinking it targets. After he loses because of said misplay, he starts throwing his cards around, shuffling poorly, making remarks about how he can't believe he made that play. Second game starts bad for him, he elects to play and procedes to mulligan down to five, muttering how bad his hand is and how unfair this is. I look at my cards then and promptly mulligan to 5 myself. I have 2 Birds of Paradise in my hand with one land, and even though he Spellstutter Sprites one of them I draw into a third one and needless to say I run him over while he's stuck on 2 land really bad. He immediately loses his cool, saying how it's ridiculous. I keep mine and stick my hand out to shake him and say 'good game' (like I always do). He looks at me, doesn't extend his hand, laughs, and says, "That wasn't a good game." I look at him and say it happens to all of us in magic, and he just looks back at me like I am a horrendous idiot, and says, "Yeah, lots of luck involved here." Then I said don't be a prick about it, it's just a game, and he just ignored me and walked away. There were about six different people watching this match, and he just made himself look awful in front of everyone.
Pre-release for Lorwyn, my first pre-release ever. I did a flight of 32 with my friends. I manage top-8ing, and get to the semifinals. My opponent appeared like he'd be cool. After getting to the third game, I had a hideaway'd Fodder Launch at the beginning of the game that had been sitting on the board forever. I had brough him down to 6 and the board position looked extremely bad for me. He was going to kill me in a couple turns, so I attacked with everything I had on the last turn, just to see if he'd let one damage through by accident. Well he does, because I have no cards in my hand and he thinks it's just a desperation act. Well, after I declare second main he looks at me strange, and I point to my hideaway land, and he knew, I flipped it over, killing him and he immediately jumps out of his char, slams his fist on the table, and screams '*($' pretty loud. Needless to say there were plenty of kids in the area, so judges swarmed the area and gave him about 3 warnings. He wouldn't shake my hand, and just walked away saying he couldn't believe he made the play.
---
I LOVE competition in magic, but it is simply no fun to play with people like this at all. I'm not saying I'm perfect and haven't been upset because I've lost, but I ALWAYS say good game, introduce myself, and shake their hands at the end of a match. It's just a game people.
Was a great, if not controversial, article when it was first published and has not lost its relevance. The only things I have ever had to deal with at the two stores I play at is people getting mad about screw but it could be much worse obviously. People are just pretty cool where I play.
Nice confession with your female opponent. I was squirming in my seat at your rudeness...it's pretty scathing.
Nice to know you're looking out for the nice guys in the MTG community...though I have to admit, it is a joy to knock down the smug players by beating them with suboptimal cards in limited. Even more so, handing them their hat to eat it, by playing a well tuned rogue deck.
25 is not old, JayC. But jerk players are eternal. I don't attend constructed events much anymore but I would add for the limited world, that openly proclaiming "I can't believe I am getting passed this" toes the line of being rude to your draft partners. Anything beyond that is just being an &*^. Please try to remember that the rest of the table obviously has not had the extensive drafting experience that you had so we mere mortals can't comprehend what works in a limited draft environment. But despite our limited knowledge you can keep your thoughtsto yourself and the rest of the table can enjoy their experience too. It's really quite amazing.
A very good article indeed. Every Magic player should read this and then look at him/herself. I consider myself a sportsmanlike player, but I must admit I have my jerk times. I have a draft tonight and I'll try to keep my thoughts for myself, as gypsieking3280 says, because I realize now that I say things like "I can't believe I am getting passed this" a bit too often. In a recent draft, I said out loud about my neighbor, "Wow, I must remember that this guy doesn't understand" because he obviously didn't get my signals of the first pack and was passing me a color in the second pack that I thought he would most certainly be in instead of the colors I thought I had cut well. I didn't even say that directly to him, just to everyone else on the table. I immediatly felt guilty and apologized, but still, I should have kept my mouth shut. I have this problem of being sometimes rude... it's a bad behavior I've developped in reaction to being rejected during my school years. It happens less and less with time, but I still need to watch myself.
By the way, Helium Squirter was a pretty good card in RGD draft. Far from a bomb, and far from the best common of its color, but emminently playable nonetheless. It's a 3/3 flier for 5 with a lot of versatility thanks to Graft. The cost to give it flying is negligible in comparison to the possibility of pumping and giving flying to one or two other creatures. Being a jerk because someone beats you with such a card, that you don't understand is good, is much worse than cursing his luck.
It's a shame that the players who need the most to understand these sportsmanship principles probably won't read this or will laugh at it with their usual arrogance. Well, we can't do much about it except ignoring them or banning them from shops when they cross the line.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
A very good article that a lot of people ought to read. I just hate those imature players who thinks that when the win it is because of their skills and when they loose it is only because they were unlucky. I recently started playing online and a lot of players simply can't cope with loosing to new playe with a rating of 1640 even if I might play better than them.
Well, at least we know who scared all the female players away...
It's kind of funny - I think the better I become at magic, the less of a jerk-off i am. My rating has slowly been creeping over the last few months, but back when i was sub-1700 I would complain about losing to mana screw, luck-sack opponent's draws, whatever.
I guess, one day I asked myself this: Does whining about luck-sack opponents and mana screw improve my magic playing skills? No. It just makes you look like a crybaby who will throw a temper tantrum whenever things do not go your way. Mana screw? Probably should have mulliganed. Luck sack opponent topdecked wrath? Probably should have held a creature or two back.
My point is, when you stop blaming everyone else and your poor luck for your losses, and start examining why you lost, you become a better player and less of a jerk.
I quit Magic a while ago, in fairly large part to this. The biggest reason was that I moved from CA to FL, which has a much different type of people and lost all my Magic-playing friends and my then-girlfriend who was also a vet of the game.
But when I got here, I went to 1 Friday night event, and 1 Sat prerelease for Coldsnap (at the only place in 150 miles that holds DCI events). For such a small group, almost no one at all was friendly to me or the 1-2 other guests there outside their little clique.
It was very depressing... why would I want to spend each Friday night with a bunch of rude people? I'd be better off doing nothing with no one, so it was that day I quit Magic about 4 years after I'd started playing. I had to put away the games sometime anyway, but I did want to play another year or two.
When I win a game against a mana-flooded or -screwed opponent, I say something along the lines of "a pity it had to happen this way. Good luck in the next round". Saying "good game" in these situations may be interpreted as rude, but really, people should definitely say it when it was actually a good game, doesn't matter if you won or lost. Friendly environment for the win, I guess.
I think lots of people could learn a lot from this article. I've had my occasions of being rude when I lost, but usually I try to be as nice as I can to my opponent in all circumstances. There's no reason not to.
When this article was first published (although I'm sure it's been on as a "classic" before as well...) I think I commented that I'd seen a well respected semi-pro being a complete *blank* by complaining about losing to a "scrub" (in less polite terms) to his mate while he was still sat at the same table as said opponent. This was really disappointing, but it's easily the exception rather than the rule...in real life.
Play Magic: Online for more than a few days/hours/minutes even, and you will come across a whole slew of people who behave like jerks. Invariably, they have "high" ratings (althought MTGO rating basically means squat unless it's like 1900) but still feel it necessary to get into a strop when they lose - especially if they lose when you make mistakes, that's always the best. The lack of a "judge" standing over your shoulder seems to make some players forget basic manners. Luckily, unlike real life, there is a mute button.
Good article.
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When I win a game against a mana-flooded or -screwed opponent, I say something along the lines of "a pity it had to happen this way. Good luck in the next round". Saying "good game" in these situations may be interpreted as rude,.
That's some good advice right there.
I wish more players would read thiS article, they should put up one on the MTG mainsite like this under there tournament page. Maybe even have a good sportsmanship award for pro tour players or something. There are still too many rude/arrogant players and it does ruin experinces for newer/younger players. It's never okay to be a prick, but being a prick at a prerelease where most players will get there first taste of competivie magic? You might as well be hanging out at the card shop and offering to trade a shiny forrest to the "special" kid who just popped a thoughtseize.
It's just plain wrong to blame your loses on your opponents luck. If you get mana-screwed you can blame your own luck, but unless your oppenent wins with a first turn mana clash, luck is not the only factor.
I think this was a great article that needs some circulation, I'm going to put it on my play groups required reading list and I suggest others do the same.
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I didn't read this the first time around -- new to MTGS and new to Magic in general -- but I really found it unnecessary for you to mention that the opponent you belittled was unattractive. Was that supposed to affect how I view your comments? Are you somehow more justified in saying them? It really grates my cheese when people feel the need to qualify their opponent's physical appearance -- somehow, people don't seem to do that for men.
At my local gaming store, a regular was discussing how best to rip people off in trading cards at the Lorwyn prerelease, and he said something that really stuck with me: "Look for the people laughing and having a good time -- they don't know what the f*** they're doing. You're not supposed to have fun at Magic." This pretty much sums up the local environment for me -- a cadre of jerks who make everyone else uncomfortable. (They've even bullied the store owner into never offering Two-Headed Giant at FNM, since they don't like doing it.) I wish I could print off your tips for better sportsmanship (which was very good, by the way) and give it to them, but they'd probably just tell me to go find another store to play.
At States, I had the fortune of playing extremely kind, good-natured opponents, and I'm still thankful for them. None of them threw a fit at losing to a woman, all of them had good senses of humor, and after a match with a really well-designed WUB Blink deck, I told my opponent that that was the best time I had ever had playing Magic. (I lost that match 2-1, but my opponent was just so nice and fun.) At FNM, I never have that experience -- just jerks who aren't civil, criticize my decisions, and accuse me of cheating and/or topdecking when I win. It's almost to the point where I'd be willing to drive an hour away just to play with people who aren't total douchebags.
So, yes, I echo a lot of your sentiments in the article. You just happened to hit on a couple of my pet peeves -- referring to female opponents as "girls", comparing a loss to a female to losing to a kid, and mentioning the physical attractiveness of an opponent when to do so was completely unnecessary.
Wow, I sound like a jerk in this post. I'm really not -- just touchy about being a marginalized female in a male-dominated, male-oriented pasttime.
And, all that being said, I do respect your sharing your encounter with that opponent. To recognize when one has been a jerk is one thing; to use one's experience to teach others is truly laudable. I hope my knee-jerk reaction doesn't diminish the respect I mean to convey for that.
Everyone started playing magic because it was fun... not to be competitive and win every game.
just about everyone that leaves magic is because they arent having fun anymore...
about 5-6 years ago i stopped playing magic and picked up a good number of other CCG's and our play group HATED the magic group that came in on friday night. They were SO loud and SO rude to each other...
i moved from CO to FL so I had no friends and I liked the new set that was out (Kamigawa) so i started up again...
The new group I play with is pretty fun.. and yes.. we are competitive and pretty damn good.. but one thing we are always doing.. is HAVING FUN...
I hate when i goto the orlando pre releases and 1/2 the people there are complete dicks...
Remember.. without NEW PLAYERS... MAGIC WILL DIE.. and your precious collection will drop to worthless.
I have a great collection and dont want to see this happen and I love to play so I dont want to see the game die.. I am always helping out the new guys... giving them the commons and uncommons from my fresh box... helping them build decks...
Getting new blood into magic makes for better trade pools.. and better decks (in the long run) and also KEEPS THE GAME ALIVE.. please know how important this is.
As far as mana screw wins... yes.. i *****.. everyone does at some point.. but to ***** at your oppenent... wrong person.. ***** at wizards.. there are options to COMPLETELY FIX mana screw/flood and they havent done it..
anyways.. thats a new topic (I will be submitting my manascrew fix to wizards soon)
Have FUN... Teach a new player... It is called Magic: THE GATHERING after all...
As far as mana screw wins... yes.. i *****.. everyone does at some point.. but to ***** at your oppenent... wrong person.. ***** at wizards.. there are options to COMPLETELY FIX mana screw/flood and they havent done it..
anyways.. thats a new topic (I will be submitting my manascrew fix to wizards soon)
Have FUN... Teach a new player... It is called Magic: THE GATHERING after all...
I agree with most of the things you said but Mana Screw is a neccessary part of the game. Rosewater has gone on record stating it & I concur entirely, it allows chance to enter the game in a big degree, that chance. The walking away from the mana screw makes you want to play again, thus spurring your competittive spirit & (in hasbro's eyes) making you spend more money.
MTG chose the route of mana screw being viable, as us "older players" can attest to. Afterall there used to be now limit on the number of cards you could have in a deck & subsequently there were 45 lightning bolts & 15 mountains in decks. There was no chance unless you consider the chance of going first or second... The 4 card limit & the idea of shuffling rules and mana screw and all that means there are chances of bad draws etc.
On a different note it is most unfortunate that in Magic if you say competitive it is synonomous with no fun. Merope your stock of competitive players seem to be the worst I have ever heard of.
I like your article, it reminded me of why I stopped ripping into everydeck that I didn't like. Although every once in a while, I enjoy locking my opponenet down so he cant do anything(easily done in some cases), then toying with them until I become bored of their existence in the game.:p Then I finally finish off with a smile and a "good game" remark. God it feels good to keep your opponent down while you hold their demise in your palm. Again good article:D.
As many folks have said, I wish everyone would read these suggestions and take them to heart, along with asking themselves, "Do I *really* feel better when I act like a jackass?" Taking a moment to draw a breath and calm down will probably help more.
Here are some minor things I'd add (often things I've seen in myself):
Be willing to apologize. If you slip up and say something mean, be an adult and acknowledge it as soon as possible. Same goes if you get mixed up and do something unintentional that looks suspicious.
Let people take their time (within reason). Sometimes people (esp. new players or with new sets) need some time to think things through. As long as they're not dragging it out, let them think without showing visible irritation (it'll only make it take longer). If someone really is consistently taking forever, be courteous in asking them to play faster--referencing the match time limit is a nice way to depersonalize it.
Keep it moving. On the other hand, be courteous of the other person and the match clock and try to keep the game moving. Think about plays when it's not your turn so you're ready to go when it is. Apologize if you're taking too long.
Accept your screw-ups. While it's nice when someone allows you a re-do (e.g. passing the turn when you had something else to do), they don't have to. Don't get mad if they won't let you--it's your job to stay on top of things, and part of competitive Magic involves staying focused in the game, like any competitive endeavor. It can be incredibly frustrating, but if it's your fault, don't take it out on them.
I could probably go on, but these are some issues that I've run into recently.
Great article. I definitely have a temper of sorts, but I'm also genuinely a nice guy. Every now and then, I might lose my cool during a competitive match (like crazy mana screw, or it seems like my deck hates me), but I'm always very quick to try and realize it, and not only apologize, but try and lessen the obvious tension with a joke or something. I'm not usually angry at my opponents anyways, just at my luck, so it's hardly anyone's fault to begin with.
States was a great example- I had a sub-optimal score, and felt I got cheated out of the top 8 (made worst by the fact that I was going 3-0-1, and had beaten 2 of my hardest matchups). However, this is a game of chance, and I was lucky enough to have some great opponents. And yes, it makes me want to take the deck that I am very confident in, and try it again, hopefully this time to the tune of a top 8.
On another note, Helium Squirters ftw. lol...
You might as well be hanging out at the card shop and offering to trade a shiny forrest to the "special" kid who just popped a thoughtseize.
Cmon, it was a shiny Squire! It's worth something if you are completing a TS set... I mean... Heh...
I don't have any trouble being polite in face-to-face games even when I'm drawn a miserable hand or make horrible play mistakes but, I have to confess, MTGO sometimes brings out the very worst in me.
In my case, losing a bunch of games in a row really ruins my temper. I know that I should stop playing and take a break when that happens but some part of me wants to keep on playing until I win just one game. When I get into that state it's really very easy for me to become a jerk and it doesn't take much to set me off (usually someone playing a tournament deck in Casual will do it). I've gone so far as to curse out my opponent and then let the game hang.
I want to be clear: I feel really and utterly horrible about the way I've behaved afterwards and I'll go out of my way to be extra nice afterwards but, sooner or later, Mr. Hyde comes crawling out of my psyche.
I've gradually gotten better about it but it's something that I'm still working very hard on.
By the way... I do hope you tracked down that woman you berated and apologized to her. It's obvious that you're still feeling guilty about it. Apologizing would give you some closure. (That's one thing that MTGO doesn't really allow since people will usually just block you when you act like a creep so there's no way to come back later and say that you're sorry.)
Oh... as for saying "Good game", I find that saying, "Thanks for the game" is almost always a good phrase and that saving "good game" for exceptional games is good practice.
By the way, Helium Squirter was a pretty good card in RGD draft. Far from a bomb, and far from the best common of its color, but emminently playable nonetheless. It's a 3/3 flier for 5 with a lot of versatility thanks to Graft. The cost to give it flying is negligible in comparison to the possibility of pumping and giving flying to one or two other creatures.
I'd say it was the best common of its color. Its competition was... um... Silkwing Scout!
And/or First-Wing and Zeppelid, both of which are arguably better, but one lacks the third toughness and the other hasn't the synergy with Ghor-Clan Savage.
You just happened to hit on a couple of my pet peeves -- referring to female opponents as "girls" (snip)
I played a guy round one.
I played a girl round two.
If I'm not saying that I played a man round one, where's the problem with saying I played a girl round two? I mean, arguably Guys gets paired with Dolls, and Boys with Girls, but I personally would find "I played a doll round two" both more offensive and more easily misinterpreted, and I don't say "I played a boy" ever.
It's not "girl" as in "young person", it's just that there is no phrase equivalent to "guy" that doesn't sound sexist*.
I mean, yeah, it's a knee-jerk thing maybe, but I'm just wondering if you have a detailed reason behind it.
*Chick? Dame? Female sounds non-sexist but too clinical, I think.
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Tarmogoyf has no evasion, yet it sees tonnes of play. What makes this any different?
In my opinion, this is probably one of the *first* articles that anyone who is seriously interested in the game of Magic ought to read. It analyzes the metagame of the metagame -- that is, to recognize the ulterior motive of this entire hobby is to have fun, and enjoy yourself with other people. When considering the various people you meet at gaming centers, it's always a good idea to take a look at what kind of person you're playing with, and see whether dealing with him or her is worth your investment of time. After all, this is supposed to be play, not work, right? (I know the environment is rather different in tournaments; I qualify my above statements when I say that I almost solely play casual).
Anyway, in light of the comments here taking a turn towards trading, I'd like to outline a few of the characters I've met over the past year:
* the loud, serious, bitter man who's there at every weekend, comments on your deck and plays in the middle of your game, and then yells at you when you take too long. I tend to avoid such characters. Such behaviour seems to me symptomatic of some addiction or withdrawal to some degree. I'm not even joking. If you play this game, you *will* meet addicts. Should we not bear in mind the larger picture when we play?
* the ultra-friendly woman who has tons of cards and builds incredibly bad decks. I like playing with her. Not because I always win, but because she reminds people that the game is ultimately about having fun and enjoying the cards, regardless of their power level or tournament value. When you trade with these kinds of people, *do not rip them off*. There are enough competitive tournament players out there, and enough tournament level decks. Why should you try to bully someone who just wants to build a deck based on Uktabi Drakes? On that note, why not build a deck based on Plumes of Peace and then challenge them to a game?
* the new kid. Sometimes, they are literally kids, still in high school or their first year of college. We were all once like them, so help them out. I think it is in especially bad taste to rip off new players just because they haven't spent years on the game like others. Trading with these people actually takes a bit of skill because you want educate them carefully over the importance of market value and desire. For example, one fellow I met was drooling over my Azorius Signet, and was willing to trade me a rare for it. If for some reason you can't just *give* it to them (I only had one copy at the time, and it was being used in a deck), then at least try to throw in as much as you can to make the trade even. I gave that guy that and about six other cards for his Feldon's Cane, which didn't really faze him at all. On a related note,
* the hard-luck player. I once met a guy who just had half his collection stolen at school, which included not only a Wrath of God but some of his brother's collection as well. Help these guys out. Provide them with any commons or uncommons you can spare. I gave that guy a red-white playing deck I was using for an Underground River, one of the few cards he had left. Even though it's generally unadvisable to trade a rare for multiple commons and uncommons, the net market value was slightly in his favour, and of course, it gave him something to play with for the rest of the afternoon.
* in other words, the point of what i'm saying is that, in many ways, it's great fun and great karma to give cards away. Why? In my case, I simply don't like owning too many cards. But of more pertinence is the fact that many, many other players have given me cards for fun as well. And not all of them are jank. One guy who owns a store gave me a playset of Wrath of Gods and Swords to Plowshares because I needed help building my most beloved blue-white casual deck, composed of nothing but counterspells and removal. Just last week, another guy gave me an Incandescent Soulstoke and a Horde of Notions because I desperately needed them to complete an Elemental deck I was building. Let these people help you out, and show them how much fun you're having with the cards they gave away. That's why they did it. Then, if you happen to stumble upon something they're looking for, you can try and trade for it and then give it to them.
So -- anyone else here met people like these?
Anyway, these stories here probably make me look like a noob -- even though I've been playing the game since Revised. But who cares, the player, not the play, is the thing. Hope you found the anecdotes interesting, and apologies for the length of this post.
This pretty much sums up the local environment for me -- a cadre of jerks who make everyone else uncomfortable.
I hear that. My metagame is about 10% nice guys, 20% okay but misguided ("Why would you ever play Ashling the Pilgrim? I only want to do Cube Draft because that's what all the pros do!"), 70% unmitigated jerk.
The fundamental problem is that Wizards of the Coast is trying to make Magic a sport, rather than a hobby. Like all sports (or, indeed, "sports"), that's inevitably going to attract the most naturally competitive, arrogant, sense-of-entitlement types. The rest of us - the women, the hobbyists, the multiplayers, the guys whose tournament aspirations don't extend beyond FNM - are going to be pushed further and further to the fringes.
And if R&D keeps printing secondary market atrocities like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtseize, they won't even notice we're gone.
Spread the word.
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
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Actually, I've had plenty of opponents take offense to this one when they got mana-screwed, and some even when I got mana-screwed.
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Think.
Third game in a tight last round and my opponent just got severely mana screwed; it's become almost instinct for me to say "Good Game" after any match but this guy lost it and basically told me to stick my "good game" in an anatomically uncomfortable spot
I was kinda surprised as he was an older player (35-ish, maybe older) and I guess I expected a little maturity. What made it worse was that he was there with his son, who would only have been 11 or 12 at best. It didn't look good, and I was slightly embarrassed for him (honestly, it's a pre-release :-/)
Still, I've definitely learned to try and judge the mood of the other person after this incident. I think good sportsmanship is everything, no matter what sort of competition you find yourself in - be it card related or with some sort of ball.
Of course despite all of this, my group still rip heavily on any among us who lose to the little pig-tailed red-head girl who turns up to play with her elder brothers and parents...:D
I am playing swiss rounds in a draft and am sitting next to another two people playing a match. One guy is clearly experienced and the other isn't. The unexperieneced player makes a bad play, and the experienced one exclaims, out loud, "That is one of the worst plays I've ever seen!". Comments like that and the fact that everyone hated the way this kid presented himself got him banned from the shop.
A swiss round had just finished on a later week, and I went up to one kid that is the current replacement of the afore mentioned banned guy (awful demeanor), to ask him how he did. As soon as I sit down he starts on a rant about how that guy was the worst magic player ever and the reason that he lost was only because of his 'lucksackness'. Then he ranted about some card (I forget which) but it was basically a Helium Squirter that caused him to lose.
Quarterfinals at the last city champ quals, I'm playing pred justice, opponent is playing u/b faerie aggro. He's one of those types that you already know when you sit down that he's going to be a major prick if he loses or you do something he doesn't 'approve' of. First game he makes a bad play, misreading what Stonecloaker does, thinking it targets. After he loses because of said misplay, he starts throwing his cards around, shuffling poorly, making remarks about how he can't believe he made that play. Second game starts bad for him, he elects to play and procedes to mulligan down to five, muttering how bad his hand is and how unfair this is. I look at my cards then and promptly mulligan to 5 myself. I have 2 Birds of Paradise in my hand with one land, and even though he Spellstutter Sprites one of them I draw into a third one and needless to say I run him over while he's stuck on 2 land really bad. He immediately loses his cool, saying how it's ridiculous. I keep mine and stick my hand out to shake him and say 'good game' (like I always do). He looks at me, doesn't extend his hand, laughs, and says, "That wasn't a good game." I look at him and say it happens to all of us in magic, and he just looks back at me like I am a horrendous idiot, and says, "Yeah, lots of luck involved here." Then I said don't be a prick about it, it's just a game, and he just ignored me and walked away. There were about six different people watching this match, and he just made himself look awful in front of everyone.
Pre-release for Lorwyn, my first pre-release ever. I did a flight of 32 with my friends. I manage top-8ing, and get to the semifinals. My opponent appeared like he'd be cool. After getting to the third game, I had a hideaway'd Fodder Launch at the beginning of the game that had been sitting on the board forever. I had brough him down to 6 and the board position looked extremely bad for me. He was going to kill me in a couple turns, so I attacked with everything I had on the last turn, just to see if he'd let one damage through by accident. Well he does, because I have no cards in my hand and he thinks it's just a desperation act. Well, after I declare second main he looks at me strange, and I point to my hideaway land, and he knew, I flipped it over, killing him and he immediately jumps out of his char, slams his fist on the table, and screams '*($' pretty loud. Needless to say there were plenty of kids in the area, so judges swarmed the area and gave him about 3 warnings. He wouldn't shake my hand, and just walked away saying he couldn't believe he made the play.
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I LOVE competition in magic, but it is simply no fun to play with people like this at all. I'm not saying I'm perfect and haven't been upset because I've lost, but I ALWAYS say good game, introduce myself, and shake their hands at the end of a match. It's just a game people.
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Nice to know you're looking out for the nice guys in the MTG community...though I have to admit, it is a joy to knock down the smug players by beating them with suboptimal cards in limited. Even more so, handing them their hat to eat it, by playing a well tuned rogue deck.
By the way, Helium Squirter was a pretty good card in RGD draft. Far from a bomb, and far from the best common of its color, but emminently playable nonetheless. It's a 3/3 flier for 5 with a lot of versatility thanks to Graft. The cost to give it flying is negligible in comparison to the possibility of pumping and giving flying to one or two other creatures. Being a jerk because someone beats you with such a card, that you don't understand is good, is much worse than cursing his luck.
It's a shame that the players who need the most to understand these sportsmanship principles probably won't read this or will laugh at it with their usual arrogance. Well, we can't do much about it except ignoring them or banning them from shops when they cross the line.
Well, at least we know who scared all the female players away...
I guess, one day I asked myself this: Does whining about luck-sack opponents and mana screw improve my magic playing skills? No. It just makes you look like a crybaby who will throw a temper tantrum whenever things do not go your way. Mana screw? Probably should have mulliganed. Luck sack opponent topdecked wrath? Probably should have held a creature or two back.
My point is, when you stop blaming everyone else and your poor luck for your losses, and start examining why you lost, you become a better player and less of a jerk.
But when I got here, I went to 1 Friday night event, and 1 Sat prerelease for Coldsnap (at the only place in 150 miles that holds DCI events). For such a small group, almost no one at all was friendly to me or the 1-2 other guests there outside their little clique.
It was very depressing... why would I want to spend each Friday night with a bunch of rude people? I'd be better off doing nothing with no one, so it was that day I quit Magic about 4 years after I'd started playing. I had to put away the games sometime anyway, but I did want to play another year or two.
I think lots of people could learn a lot from this article. I've had my occasions of being rude when I lost, but usually I try to be as nice as I can to my opponent in all circumstances. There's no reason not to.
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Play Magic: Online for more than a few days/hours/minutes even, and you will come across a whole slew of people who behave like jerks. Invariably, they have "high" ratings (althought MTGO rating basically means squat unless it's like 1900) but still feel it necessary to get into a strop when they lose - especially if they lose when you make mistakes, that's always the best. The lack of a "judge" standing over your shoulder seems to make some players forget basic manners. Luckily, unlike real life, there is a mute button.
Good article.
-- Sun Tzu, The Art Of War
That's some good advice right there.
I wish more players would read thiS article, they should put up one on the MTG mainsite like this under there tournament page. Maybe even have a good sportsmanship award for pro tour players or something. There are still too many rude/arrogant players and it does ruin experinces for newer/younger players. It's never okay to be a prick, but being a prick at a prerelease where most players will get there first taste of competivie magic? You might as well be hanging out at the card shop and offering to trade a shiny forrest to the "special" kid who just popped a thoughtseize.
It's just plain wrong to blame your loses on your opponents luck. If you get mana-screwed you can blame your own luck, but unless your oppenent wins with a first turn mana clash, luck is not the only factor.
I think this was a great article that needs some circulation, I'm going to put it on my play groups required reading list and I suggest others do the same.
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Quotes:
At my local gaming store, a regular was discussing how best to rip people off in trading cards at the Lorwyn prerelease, and he said something that really stuck with me: "Look for the people laughing and having a good time -- they don't know what the f*** they're doing. You're not supposed to have fun at Magic." This pretty much sums up the local environment for me -- a cadre of jerks who make everyone else uncomfortable. (They've even bullied the store owner into never offering Two-Headed Giant at FNM, since they don't like doing it.) I wish I could print off your tips for better sportsmanship (which was very good, by the way) and give it to them, but they'd probably just tell me to go find another store to play.
At States, I had the fortune of playing extremely kind, good-natured opponents, and I'm still thankful for them. None of them threw a fit at losing to a woman, all of them had good senses of humor, and after a match with a really well-designed WUB Blink deck, I told my opponent that that was the best time I had ever had playing Magic. (I lost that match 2-1, but my opponent was just so nice and fun.) At FNM, I never have that experience -- just jerks who aren't civil, criticize my decisions, and accuse me of cheating and/or topdecking when I win. It's almost to the point where I'd be willing to drive an hour away just to play with people who aren't total douchebags.
So, yes, I echo a lot of your sentiments in the article. You just happened to hit on a couple of my pet peeves -- referring to female opponents as "girls", comparing a loss to a female to losing to a kid, and mentioning the physical attractiveness of an opponent when to do so was completely unnecessary.
Wow, I sound like a jerk in this post. I'm really not -- just touchy about being a marginalized female in a male-dominated, male-oriented pasttime.
And, all that being said, I do respect your sharing your encounter with that opponent. To recognize when one has been a jerk is one thing; to use one's experience to teach others is truly laudable. I hope my knee-jerk reaction doesn't diminish the respect I mean to convey for that.
I agree with most of the things you said but Mana Screw is a neccessary part of the game. Rosewater has gone on record stating it & I concur entirely, it allows chance to enter the game in a big degree, that chance. The walking away from the mana screw makes you want to play again, thus spurring your competittive spirit & (in hasbro's eyes) making you spend more money.
MTG chose the route of mana screw being viable, as us "older players" can attest to. Afterall there used to be now limit on the number of cards you could have in a deck & subsequently there were 45 lightning bolts & 15 mountains in decks. There was no chance unless you consider the chance of going first or second... The 4 card limit & the idea of shuffling rules and mana screw and all that means there are chances of bad draws etc.
On a different note it is most unfortunate that in Magic if you say competitive it is synonomous with no fun. Merope your stock of competitive players seem to be the worst I have ever heard of.
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As many folks have said, I wish everyone would read these suggestions and take them to heart, along with asking themselves, "Do I *really* feel better when I act like a jackass?" Taking a moment to draw a breath and calm down will probably help more.
Here are some minor things I'd add (often things I've seen in myself):
States was a great example- I had a sub-optimal score, and felt I got cheated out of the top 8 (made worst by the fact that I was going 3-0-1, and had beaten 2 of my hardest matchups). However, this is a game of chance, and I was lucky enough to have some great opponents. And yes, it makes me want to take the deck that I am very confident in, and try it again, hopefully this time to the tune of a top 8.
On another note, Helium Squirters ftw. lol...
Cmon, it was a shiny Squire! It's worth something if you are completing a TS set... I mean... Heh...
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In my case, losing a bunch of games in a row really ruins my temper. I know that I should stop playing and take a break when that happens but some part of me wants to keep on playing until I win just one game. When I get into that state it's really very easy for me to become a jerk and it doesn't take much to set me off (usually someone playing a tournament deck in Casual will do it). I've gone so far as to curse out my opponent and then let the game hang.
I want to be clear: I feel really and utterly horrible about the way I've behaved afterwards and I'll go out of my way to be extra nice afterwards but, sooner or later, Mr. Hyde comes crawling out of my psyche.
I've gradually gotten better about it but it's something that I'm still working very hard on.
By the way... I do hope you tracked down that woman you berated and apologized to her. It's obvious that you're still feeling guilty about it. Apologizing would give you some closure. (That's one thing that MTGO doesn't really allow since people will usually just block you when you act like a creep so there's no way to come back later and say that you're sorry.)
Oh... as for saying "Good game", I find that saying, "Thanks for the game" is almost always a good phrase and that saving "good game" for exceptional games is good practice.
And/or First-Wing and Zeppelid, both of which are arguably better, but one lacks the third toughness and the other hasn't the synergy with Ghor-Clan Savage.
I played a guy round one.
I played a girl round two.
If I'm not saying that I played a man round one, where's the problem with saying I played a girl round two? I mean, arguably Guys gets paired with Dolls, and Boys with Girls, but I personally would find "I played a doll round two" both more offensive and more easily misinterpreted, and I don't say "I played a boy" ever.
It's not "girl" as in "young person", it's just that there is no phrase equivalent to "guy" that doesn't sound sexist*.
I mean, yeah, it's a knee-jerk thing maybe, but I'm just wondering if you have a detailed reason behind it.
*Chick? Dame? Female sounds non-sexist but too clinical, I think.
Anyway, in light of the comments here taking a turn towards trading, I'd like to outline a few of the characters I've met over the past year:
* the loud, serious, bitter man who's there at every weekend, comments on your deck and plays in the middle of your game, and then yells at you when you take too long. I tend to avoid such characters. Such behaviour seems to me symptomatic of some addiction or withdrawal to some degree. I'm not even joking. If you play this game, you *will* meet addicts. Should we not bear in mind the larger picture when we play?
* the ultra-friendly woman who has tons of cards and builds incredibly bad decks. I like playing with her. Not because I always win, but because she reminds people that the game is ultimately about having fun and enjoying the cards, regardless of their power level or tournament value. When you trade with these kinds of people, *do not rip them off*. There are enough competitive tournament players out there, and enough tournament level decks. Why should you try to bully someone who just wants to build a deck based on Uktabi Drakes? On that note, why not build a deck based on Plumes of Peace and then challenge them to a game?
* the new kid. Sometimes, they are literally kids, still in high school or their first year of college. We were all once like them, so help them out. I think it is in especially bad taste to rip off new players just because they haven't spent years on the game like others. Trading with these people actually takes a bit of skill because you want educate them carefully over the importance of market value and desire. For example, one fellow I met was drooling over my Azorius Signet, and was willing to trade me a rare for it. If for some reason you can't just *give* it to them (I only had one copy at the time, and it was being used in a deck), then at least try to throw in as much as you can to make the trade even. I gave that guy that and about six other cards for his Feldon's Cane, which didn't really faze him at all. On a related note,
* the hard-luck player. I once met a guy who just had half his collection stolen at school, which included not only a Wrath of God but some of his brother's collection as well. Help these guys out. Provide them with any commons or uncommons you can spare. I gave that guy a red-white playing deck I was using for an Underground River, one of the few cards he had left. Even though it's generally unadvisable to trade a rare for multiple commons and uncommons, the net market value was slightly in his favour, and of course, it gave him something to play with for the rest of the afternoon.
* in other words, the point of what i'm saying is that, in many ways, it's great fun and great karma to give cards away. Why? In my case, I simply don't like owning too many cards. But of more pertinence is the fact that many, many other players have given me cards for fun as well. And not all of them are jank. One guy who owns a store gave me a playset of Wrath of Gods and Swords to Plowshares because I needed help building my most beloved blue-white casual deck, composed of nothing but counterspells and removal. Just last week, another guy gave me an Incandescent Soulstoke and a Horde of Notions because I desperately needed them to complete an Elemental deck I was building. Let these people help you out, and show them how much fun you're having with the cards they gave away. That's why they did it. Then, if you happen to stumble upon something they're looking for, you can try and trade for it and then give it to them.
So -- anyone else here met people like these?
Anyway, these stories here probably make me look like a noob -- even though I've been playing the game since Revised. But who cares, the player, not the play, is the thing. Hope you found the anecdotes interesting, and apologies for the length of this post.
I hear that. My metagame is about 10% nice guys, 20% okay but misguided ("Why would you ever play Ashling the Pilgrim? I only want to do Cube Draft because that's what all the pros do!"), 70% unmitigated jerk.
The fundamental problem is that Wizards of the Coast is trying to make Magic a sport, rather than a hobby. Like all sports (or, indeed, "sports"), that's inevitably going to attract the most naturally competitive, arrogant, sense-of-entitlement types. The rest of us - the women, the hobbyists, the multiplayers, the guys whose tournament aspirations don't extend beyond FNM - are going to be pushed further and further to the fringes.
And if R&D keeps printing secondary market atrocities like Tarmogoyf and Thoughtseize, they won't even notice we're gone.