This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, Budget in Vintage. We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.
Good read Fireball channel... although TMWA deck unpowered suggestions you left black lotus in the deck.. lol thought you might want to know.. Thanks for the ideas on getting into Vintage.
Thanks for the all comments. I considered looking at the prices of the decks but prices can vary widely from area to area and I didn't want to get too far into card values.
By covering card choices I hoped that would also cover some individual matchups. There are so many matchups fish can face and how the deck plays and what cards it runs depends entirely on the metagame. This makes it difficult to do a comprehensive list of matchups. I will try to be more in depth in future articles though.
The problem with all "budget" articles is that there's really no set definition of budget... The decks in the article can be turned into budget versions by taking out power, but for some, those still aren't budget decks with duals and FoW's, etc.
The decks in the article can be turned into budget versions by taking out power, but for some, those still aren't budget decks with duals and FoW's, etc.
Unfortunately, and this is one thing about Vintage that still irks me... if a deck with 4 duals and 4 Force of Wills is outside of your budget, then you don't have a realistic chance of competing in the format. "Budgetizing" the decks in this article are about the cheapest you can go and have a chance in anything resembling the "normal" competitive Vintage metagame.
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Unfortunately, and this is one thing about Vintage that still irks me... if a deck with 4 duals and 4 Force of Wills is outside of your budget, then you don't have a realistic chance of competing in the format. "Budgetizing" the decks in this article are about the cheapest you can go and have a chance in anything resembling the "normal" competitive Vintage metagame.
Yes, I am aware of that. I was just merely stating the fact that budget is a pretty vague word to use. I guess a better term to be used for the article would be "unpowered", not "budget".
Other then the part about how TMWA is not meant to be taken to a field of stax I liked the article. TMWA has great game against stax,it can use hide and seek (either of them) to disrupt the stax game plan and it has quick creatures that beat hard. Stax does not do well against little men on the board, trust me I have played stax enough to know that.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
Unfortunately, and this is one thing about Vintage that still irks me... if a deck with 4 duals and 4 Force of Wills is outside of your budget, then you don't have a realistic chance of competing in the format. "Budgetizing" the decks in this article are about the cheapest you can go and have a chance in anything resembling the "normal" competitive Vintage metagame.
His claims of competitive, budget vintage decks did cause my ears to prick up...but when I saw the $300+ LANDBASES I realized the Author and I either have very different jobs, or that he has had his playtest set of beta duals for as long as he can remember and can't identify with anyone who doesn't have that luxury.
His claims of competitive, budget vintage decks did cause my ears to prick up...but when I saw the $300+ LANDBASES I realized the Author and I either have very different jobs, or that he has had his playtest set of beta duals for as long as he can remember and can't identify with anyone who doesn't have that luxury.
Unfortunately those $300 landbases are about as budget as this format can get and remain even slightly competitive with powered decks.
If you live in a meta where nobody has power you can get away with some slower and slightly less stable decks. But if you see yourself having to compete with real Vintage decks like Long, Gifts, etc. and can't afford duals or Force of Will, then I doubt an article will ever exist to help make you competitive.
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Vintage like any competitive magic format requires substantial monetary investment. Without proxies an budget unpowered Vintage deck price is comparable to that of a Legacy deck. The main costs of budget decks are Force of Will and the manabase of Fetchlands and Dual Lands. Unlike with other formats though these staple cards don't cycle out or even become obsolete in two years they will continue being played and keep their value. As frog_master mentioned Ravinca Dual lands are a great way to budgetize your mana base. I know I have been guilty of running Watery Grave over Underground Sea for budget reasons.
Proxies on the other hand are something that most events in the U.S allow and make the format much more affordable. I know proxies are what made Vintage more accesible to me and I think they are the great equalizer to the metagame.
I liked the article, it was well written. I agree with Kicks and Bbrevus about the cost of the mana base. It looks like this article was written for decks that want to compete at the highest level. If you are taking this deck to a local Type 1 then it is not a budget deck, however if you are going to Worlds then it is a budget deck. I'm not going to spend $XXX for a local T1, I was expecting an article for "cheap" decks that are competitive at local T1.
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Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
Agree.
While we welcome comment on our articles, please try to add some more content to your posts than a quote and a single word.--Binary
By covering card choices I hoped that would also cover some individual matchups. There are so many matchups fish can face and how the deck plays and what cards it runs depends entirely on the metagame. This makes it difficult to do a comprehensive list of matchups. I will try to be more in depth in future articles though.
That said, it was a nice read.
Unfortunately, and this is one thing about Vintage that still irks me... if a deck with 4 duals and 4 Force of Wills is outside of your budget, then you don't have a realistic chance of competing in the format. "Budgetizing" the decks in this article are about the cheapest you can go and have a chance in anything resembling the "normal" competitive Vintage metagame.
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
2 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Sol Ring
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated knowledge
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Echoing Truth
1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Duress
2 Null Rod
1 Life from the Loam
Win
4 Oath of Druids
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
AVOID MTG Fanatic ! Remands Orders and Re-lists cards for more money!
Yes, I am aware of that. I was just merely stating the fact that budget is a pretty vague word to use. I guess a better term to be used for the article would be "unpowered", not "budget".
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=91142
With the exception of the deck with 4x Bazaar, all of your decks fit into my budget and were maybe even a bit cheap coompared to my legacy decks.
I will enjoy building one of those decks and taking a stab at vintage for a change.
His claims of competitive, budget vintage decks did cause my ears to prick up...but when I saw the $300+ LANDBASES I realized the Author and I either have very different jobs, or that he has had his playtest set of beta duals for as long as he can remember and can't identify with anyone who doesn't have that luxury.
Unfortunately those $300 landbases are about as budget as this format can get and remain even slightly competitive with powered decks.
If you live in a meta where nobody has power you can get away with some slower and slightly less stable decks. But if you see yourself having to compete with real Vintage decks like Long, Gifts, etc. and can't afford duals or Force of Will, then I doubt an article will ever exist to help make you competitive.
You can buy a leer jet on a budget, but it still won't be inexpensive.
Proxies on the other hand are something that most events in the U.S allow and make the format much more affordable. I know proxies are what made Vintage more accesible to me and I think they are the great equalizer to the metagame.