A genie offers you and your direct family (only you personally know about this and you never get to tell your family or anybody about the decision or the offer) 10 extra years of life frozen in biological and physical aging at any age you like but everybody else in your country immediately (people currently under 18 will suddenly age right when they hit 18) ages...
(a) by 1 second.
(b) by 1 minute.
(c) by 1 hour.
(d) by a day.
(e) by a week.
(f) by a month.
(g) by a year.
Would you take any of these offers? I would assume nobody would take the offer if it sucked a full year from the rest of us, though maybe I'm wrong.
Would anybody refuse 1 second? Would anybody steal a year from your countrymen?
-
To those who want to lose your weight... Would you take the gift immediately of losing all your excess weight... If 5 other humans (who are already overweight) at random would have to immediately divide up and gain that extra weight?
Just something I was thinking about...
<edited to add that 5 random people who take the weight are already overweight...I don't mean for it to be a trick question where the recipients could be starving kids in Africa or something... The question is supposed to be about people who would rather not have more weight>
(a-f) - Yes, I would take this. There's a lot of people in this country, and these amounts are relatively small when compared to a lifetime.
(g) by a year. - I would probably take this deal as well. Because I'm selfish and in the abstract, don't worry myself about people I don't know.
As far as the weight: Fine. I'll take that deal any day. Five people at random (preferably some of those stick thin celebrity chicks, but can't control that) can have a few extra pounds.
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Currently knitting: It's a surprise!
So the 'Death Note' thing. Probably not. In a way I actually enjoy growing older, it forces me to actually remind myself I have less time and should do more with less. Getting "bonus years" but still ending up gumming on apple sauce and wearing a diaper isn't appealing.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
To me it really depends on how much time I'm getting versus how much I'm taking away.
Taking a second from everybody else would be an even trade in aging and taking a year causes around 40 million lifetimes worth of aging. (Because a year is around 30 million seconds and there are around 300 million people in the United states.)
I would definitely do this for .5 seconds, consider it at 1 second and definitely not do it for a minute or more.
A genie offers you and your direct family (only you personally know about this and you never get to tell your family or anybody about the decision or the offer) 10 extra years of life frozen in biological and physical aging at any age you like but everybody else in your country immediately (people currently under 18 will suddenly age right when they hit 18) ages...
(a) by 1 second.
(b) by 1 minute.
(c) by 1 hour.
(d) by a day.
(e) by a week.
(f) by a month.
(g) by a year.
Would you take any of these offers? I would assume nobody would take the offer if it sucked a full year from the rest of us, though maybe I'm wrong.
Yes to all of them. I'm not sure I'd even feel guilty until (g) and even then, I think I'm just selfish enough to get over it.
To those who want to lose your weight... Would you take the gift immediately of losing all your excess weight... If 5 other humans (who are already overweight) at random would have to immediately divide up and gain that extra weight?
No. Unlike the first scenario, this is one I can solve on my own without the genie, and in that respect it's something I wouldn't cheat my way to. I wouldn't want to wish my way to a destination and skip the journey.
I'll put my head on some train tracks NOW, and the genie can give 120 worthy but dying people 1 more month to live pain free
I do not want to live past 55. At all.
I would never steal extra life from others, because I do not want to increase the amount of time I have to spend in this world. This world is just a giant goddam grind wheel we are all helplessly chained to. Like Conan was, only instead of growing big and strong, crushing our enemies, driving them before us, or hearing the lamentation of their women...we ummmm, we get to pay rent, pay taxes, work, retire with nothing, and die of liver failure.
just fyi (315,360,000 people would have to give you a second each to get 10 years.)
Applying the principle of "treat others how you'd want them to treat you if your roles were reversed", I'd take up to a week, hesitate about taking a month, but wouldn't take a year.
This is because if someone had the opportunity to gain 10 extra years for themselves by having me age one second, all the way up to a week, I wouldn't mind. I'm not sure if I'd consent to a month or not, and probably would not want a year taken from me. (This is all assuming the person is a "typical" law-abiding citizen. I wouldn't want to give extra time to a serial criminal.)
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." --Carl Sagan
This is because if someone had the opportunity to gain 10 extra years for themselves by having me age one second, all the way up to a week, I wouldn't mind. I'm not sure if I'd consent to a month or not, and probably would not want a year taken from me.
Consent is the key point. If these people were to all consent to giving me a second of their lives so that I could have an extra 10 years of frozen existence, then I would take it without a thought.
However, what right do I have to their life, no matter how small an increment of time it is, if they do not choose to give it away freely? I would be depriving them of one additional second with their spouse or child or lover or friend or pet or themself, a second to which I have no claim and one that I would not want them, without my consent, taking from me if the situation were reversed.
No. I don't trust supernatural deals. I can never get over that in these kinds of questions, my suspiciousness for unknown consequences will make me wary. Who is to say the people won't find out I took a second and come back to collect?
I know it isn't the point of the exercise, but my paranoia will succeed wherever my ethics fail.
Consent is the key point. If these people were to all consent to giving me a second of their lives so that I could have an extra 10 years of frozen existence, then I would take it without a thought.
However, what right do I have to their life, no matter how small an increment of time it is, if they do not choose to give it away freely? I would be depriving them of one additional second with their spouse or child or lover or friend or pet or themself, a second to which I have no claim and one that I would not want them, without my consent, taking from me if the situation were reversed.
Just for the purposes of clarification, because I'm not sure if you understood me on this point, but my position differs from yours on the bolded portion of your quote. I wouldn't mind a generally law-abiding person taking a week of my life in exchange for ten more years of their own without my consent. Thus, I have no personal moral issue with doing the same.
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." --Carl Sagan
Just for the purposes of clarification, because I'm not sure if you understood me on this point, but my position differs from yours on the bolded portion of your quote. I wouldn't mind a generally law-abiding person taking a week of my life in exchange for ten more years of their own without my consent. Thus, I have no personal moral issue with doing the same.
No, I fully understood your point. You would have no problem with either doing or having done to you without consent.
I would have an issue with doing so without consent, but with consent would be fine.
Applying the principle of "treat others how you'd want them to treat you if your roles were reversed", I'd take up to a week, hesitate about taking a month, but wouldn't take a year.
This is because if someone had the opportunity to gain 10 extra years for themselves by having me age one second, all the way up to a week, I wouldn't mind. I'm not sure if I'd consent to a month or not, and probably would not want a year taken from me. (This is all assuming the person is a "typical" law-abiding citizen. I wouldn't want to give extra time to a serial criminal.)
I have the same sentiment.
If someone were to take one second from me to extend their lifespans 10 years, go ahead, take it even without my consent. A month/year, I'd likely say no, nor would I take a month/year from everybody.
To those who want to lose your weight... Would you take the gift immediately of losing all your excess weight... If 5 other humans (who are already overweight) at random would have to immediately divide up and gain that extra weight?
1 second/1 minute is something people won't notice unless brought to their attention.
5 already overweight people gaining an extra 20 pounds is another matter entirely. I can't see anyone _not_ minding.
Just for the purposes of clarification, because I'm not sure if you understood me on this point, but my position differs from yours on the bolded portion of your quote. I wouldn't mind a generally law-abiding person taking a week of my life in exchange for ten more years of their own without my consent. Thus, I have no personal moral issue with doing the same.
The scenario is you're getting 10 years and EVERyBOdY in the country had to Cip in a second, minute, or month, etc.
It's not stealing from one. It's stealing a little from everybody.
The scenario is you're getting 10 years and EVERyBOdY in the country had to Cip in a second, minute, or month, etc.
It's not stealing from one. It's stealing a little from everybody.
I'm aware of that.
I'm doing my best to put myself on the opposite end of the genie deal by saying someone can take that from me. It's difficult for me to think: "What if I were everyone in the country and someone could take x amount of time from me?" I'm not really sure how to conceive of the concept "I'm everyone in the country" so I simplify it to just me in my reasoning.
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." --Carl Sagan
A genie offers you and your direct family (only you personally know about this and you never get to tell your family or anybody about the decision or the offer) 10 extra years of life frozen in biological and physical aging at any age you like but everybody else in your country immediately (people currently under 18 will suddenly age right when they hit 18) ages...
(a) by 1 second.
(b) by 1 minute.
(c) by 1 hour.
(d) by a day.
(e) by a week.
(f) by a month.
(g) by a year.
Would you take any of these offers? I would assume nobody would take the offer if it sucked a full year from the rest of us, though maybe I'm wrong.
Would anybody refuse 1 second? Would anybody steal a year from your countrymen?
-
To those who want to lose your weight... Would you take the gift immediately of losing all your excess weight... If 5 other humans (who are already overweight) at random would have to immediately divide up and gain that extra weight?
Just something I was thinking about...
<edited to add that 5 random people who take the weight are already overweight...I don't mean for it to be a trick question where the recipients could be starving kids in Africa or something... The question is supposed to be about people who would rather not have more weight>
Population of Canada 34,108,752
Number of Seconds in 10 years 315,360,000 Number of Min's in 10 years 5,256,000
Number of Hours in 10 years 87600
Number of days in 10 years 3650
Number of Months in 10 years 120
Number of years in 10 years 10
A) YES gaining extra time is a good thing
Frankly if I could i would offer the people back there 1 second I stole leading me a net ahead.
b-g) NO it is an overal LOSS of time, Ie more time is spent gaining me the 10 years then the 10 years itself
Part 2
As much as I would love too say yes, I know weight problems are bad, I have them, so no...
So let's assume that everybody on the planet opts for this take a second from everybody for plus ten years. There are around 7 billion people on the planet.
There are 31,556,926 seconds in a year.
I gain 10 years and than lose 22 (if I'm thinking correctly) - netting me negative 12 years, no?
These things add up.
Take a penny on the first day, two on the second, four on the third and so on...Whee!
A genie offers you and your direct family (only you personally know about this and you never get to tell your family or anybody about the decision or the offer) 10 extra years of life frozen in biological and physical aging at any age you like but everybody else in your country immediately (people currently under 18 will suddenly age right when they hit 18) ages...
(a) by 1 second.
(b) by 1 minute.
(c) by 1 hour.
(d) by a day.
(e) by a week.
(f) by a month.
(g) by a year.
Would you take any of these offers? I would assume nobody would take the offer if it sucked a full year from the rest of us, though maybe I'm wrong.
Would anybody refuse 1 second? Would anybody steal a year from your countrymen?
Yes to a-g, people i have no ties to in any way suddenly age forward and me & mine get 10 extra years. No question i would take that offer, doubt id even feel a tad guilty.
To those who want to lose your weight... Would you take the gift immediately of losing all your excess weight... If 5 other humans (who are already overweight) at random would have to immediately divide up and gain that extra weight?
Just something I was thinking about...
<edited to add that 5 random people who take the weight are already overweight...I don't mean for it to be a trick question where the recipients could be starving kids in Africa or something... The question is supposed to be about people who would rather not have more weight>
Again yes, i get in shape and the wight i lost id distributed (presumably) among 5 random people across the globe, fine.
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Currently Playing 1994 Magic The Rack Type 1: B/W Zombies Modern: Kuldotha Red Legacy: Pox, Oath Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
Why are all forums about philosophy filled with these moral "thought experiments"? But on topic: you could make similar questions about taxes (everyone giving some trivial amount of money to make x person or y people happier). The proof is in the pudding I'm afraid, people are nice theoretically (when talking about thought experiments for example) but when it comes down to actually paying the piper they are greedy as hell. So why re-hash all these same old ultilitarian vs. kantian vs. virtue ethics vs. whatever arguments about what hypothetical individuals would do in hypothetical situations? What does it tell you about "actual" moral behavior? Or is all the fun in trying to justify certain moral positions? If so, that may be a fun game, but that's all it is.
Would I? Of course but I would choose:
G) One Year
We all look after ourselves to be honest and we all try to make the most out of our own lives. It sounds selfish and yet its true, not everyone is a martyr who is willing to throw down their life for the sake of others. Many of us have hopes and dreams that extend into an old age. Many of us want to have more time with our significant other and offspring. It sounds like a well meaning wish. It is, but to others it can be seen as a crime for we "siphoned" off others.
Age question: I would do a second, because a second impacts nothing. A minute? No. What if I deprived someone of saying their last words to a loved one? Or if somone would have shown up only a minute before the person died, and by taking away that minute it makes it so that they're too late. Nope. I'd do a second.
Weight: I'd do it. I'd feel a bit guilty, but I'd be willing to be a selfish bastard in that instance.
Why are all forums about philosophy filled with these moral "thought experiments"? But on topic: you could make similar questions about taxes (everyone giving some trivial amount of money to make x person or y people happier). The proof is in the pudding I'm afraid, people are nice theoretically (when talking about thought experiments for example) but when it comes down to actually paying the piper they are greedy as hell. So why re-hash all these same old ultilitarian vs. kantian vs. virtue ethics vs. whatever arguments about what hypothetical individuals would do in hypothetical situations? What does it tell you about "actual" moral behavior? Or is all the fun in trying to justify certain moral positions? If so, that may be a fun game, but that's all it is.
What would you have is discuss instead?
And how much does your editorial add to the conversation?
How do you know people are not being accurate in their responses?
People may act differently than they do in the daily grind, when generosity only requires one moment of courage in the face of a Devil's offer.
No question, yes to them all. When raised in a selfish, capitalist, greedy society... what kind of answers would you really expect? This thread is quite indicative of that.
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(a) by 1 second.
(b) by 1 minute.
(c) by 1 hour.
(d) by a day.
(e) by a week.
(f) by a month.
(g) by a year.
Would you take any of these offers? I would assume nobody would take the offer if it sucked a full year from the rest of us, though maybe I'm wrong.
Would anybody refuse 1 second? Would anybody steal a year from your countrymen?
-
To those who want to lose your weight... Would you take the gift immediately of losing all your excess weight... If 5 other humans (who are already overweight) at random would have to immediately divide up and gain that extra weight?
Just something I was thinking about...
<edited to add that 5 random people who take the weight are already overweight...I don't mean for it to be a trick question where the recipients could be starving kids in Africa or something... The question is supposed to be about people who would rather not have more weight>
(g) by a year. - I would probably take this deal as well. Because I'm selfish and in the abstract, don't worry myself about people I don't know.
As far as the weight: Fine. I'll take that deal any day. Five people at random (preferably some of those stick thin celebrity chicks, but can't control that) can have a few extra pounds.
Official Knitter of the Crafters.
Currently knitting: It's a surprise!
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Taking a second from everybody else would be an even trade in aging and taking a year causes around 40 million lifetimes worth of aging. (Because a year is around 30 million seconds and there are around 300 million people in the United states.)
I would definitely do this for .5 seconds, consider it at 1 second and definitely not do it for a minute or more.
Yes to all of them. I'm not sure I'd even feel guilty until (g) and even then, I think I'm just selfish enough to get over it.
No. Unlike the first scenario, this is one I can solve on my own without the genie, and in that respect it's something I wouldn't cheat my way to. I wouldn't want to wish my way to a destination and skip the journey.
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Katingal: Plane of Chains
I'll put my head on some train tracks NOW, and the genie can give 120 worthy but dying people 1 more month to live pain free
I do not want to live past 55. At all.
I would never steal extra life from others, because I do not want to increase the amount of time I have to spend in this world. This world is just a giant goddam grind wheel we are all helplessly chained to. Like Conan was, only instead of growing big and strong, crushing our enemies, driving them before us, or hearing the lamentation of their women...we ummmm, we get to pay rent, pay taxes, work, retire with nothing, and die of liver failure.
just fyi (315,360,000 people would have to give you a second each to get 10 years.)
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“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
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This is because if someone had the opportunity to gain 10 extra years for themselves by having me age one second, all the way up to a week, I wouldn't mind. I'm not sure if I'd consent to a month or not, and probably would not want a year taken from me. (This is all assuming the person is a "typical" law-abiding citizen. I wouldn't want to give extra time to a serial criminal.)
Consent is the key point. If these people were to all consent to giving me a second of their lives so that I could have an extra 10 years of frozen existence, then I would take it without a thought.
However, what right do I have to their life, no matter how small an increment of time it is, if they do not choose to give it away freely? I would be depriving them of one additional second with their spouse or child or lover or friend or pet or themself, a second to which I have no claim and one that I would not want them, without my consent, taking from me if the situation were reversed.
I know it isn't the point of the exercise, but my paranoia will succeed wherever my ethics fail.
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Just for the purposes of clarification, because I'm not sure if you understood me on this point, but my position differs from yours on the bolded portion of your quote. I wouldn't mind a generally law-abiding person taking a week of my life in exchange for ten more years of their own without my consent. Thus, I have no personal moral issue with doing the same.
No, I fully understood your point. You would have no problem with either doing or having done to you without consent.
I would have an issue with doing so without consent, but with consent would be fine.
I have the same sentiment.
If someone were to take one second from me to extend their lifespans 10 years, go ahead, take it even without my consent. A month/year, I'd likely say no, nor would I take a month/year from everybody.
1 second/1 minute is something people won't notice unless brought to their attention.
5 already overweight people gaining an extra 20 pounds is another matter entirely. I can't see anyone _not_ minding.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
The scenario is you're getting 10 years and EVERyBOdY in the country had to Cip in a second, minute, or month, etc.
It's not stealing from one. It's stealing a little from everybody.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28population+of+usa%29+*+1+second+%2F+person
I wonder if it matters to anyone that that's a net positive?
I'm aware of that.
I'm doing my best to put myself on the opposite end of the genie deal by saying someone can take that from me. It's difficult for me to think: "What if I were everyone in the country and someone could take x amount of time from me?" I'm not really sure how to conceive of the concept "I'm everyone in the country" so I simplify it to just me in my reasoning.
Population of Canada 34,108,752
Number of Seconds in 10 years 315,360,000
Number of Min's in 10 years 5,256,000
Number of Hours in 10 years 87600
Number of days in 10 years 3650
Number of Months in 10 years 120
Number of years in 10 years 10
A) YES gaining extra time is a good thing
Frankly if I could i would offer the people back there 1 second I stole leading me a net ahead.
b-g) NO it is an overal LOSS of time, Ie more time is spent gaining me the 10 years then the 10 years itself
Part 2
As much as I would love too say yes, I know weight problems are bad, I have them, so no...
There are 31,556,926 seconds in a year.
I gain 10 years and than lose 22 (if I'm thinking correctly) - netting me negative 12 years, no?
These things add up.
Take a penny on the first day, two on the second, four on the third and so on...Whee!
Yes to a-g, people i have no ties to in any way suddenly age forward and me & mine get 10 extra years. No question i would take that offer, doubt id even feel a tad guilty.
-
Again yes, i get in shape and the wight i lost id distributed (presumably) among 5 random people across the globe, fine.
Currently Playing
1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
G) One Year
We all look after ourselves to be honest and we all try to make the most out of our own lives. It sounds selfish and yet its true, not everyone is a martyr who is willing to throw down their life for the sake of others. Many of us have hopes and dreams that extend into an old age. Many of us want to have more time with our significant other and offspring. It sounds like a well meaning wish. It is, but to others it can be seen as a crime for we "siphoned" off others.
-Patron
Weight: I'd do it. I'd feel a bit guilty, but I'd be willing to be a selfish bastard in that instance.
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What would you have is discuss instead?
And how much does your editorial add to the conversation?
How do you know people are not being accurate in their responses?
People may act differently than they do in the daily grind, when generosity only requires one moment of courage in the face of a Devil's offer.