So it has re-come to my attention that we should have a "stock" cube to which we can direct new players and that which we can reference in future articles.
What I'd like to see is the most acceptable cube list to most of the experienced cubers here. I feel that for the most part there's going to be a difference of maybe 15-20 cards between people's lists when trying to set a common denominator. I'd like to see that 90-95% and then discussion on what the most acceptable cards are to fill the remaining card slots. finally culminating with an agreed upon 'basic list'.
I think it's also important to settle on the "rules" for the cube design.
Some people categorize rarity based on paper, some on paper AND online.
I play with snow cards. People play with UN- cards.
Also where to categorize certain cards will matter too, since I know people have varying opinions on the guild system, hybrids, Phyrexian mana and the like.
How many cards for each color and each guild?
I would think these questions should be answered before doing card choices.
Start your engines, post a 360 list and I'll compile it in my offtime. I think once we get 6 or 7 we'll have a good jumping off point.
For now 'how many cards of each color?', 'Any cards banned?' etc. should be the topics of discussion while people compile their lists.
This is an Average Cube. Its contents are generated from the most popular cards selected by Cube Tutor users for their own cubes. The list will be updated regularly. For the complete list of Average Cubes please see the Cube Index.
It might make a good jumping off point, but I think it is updated too frequently.
Maybe establish a list using that as a basis. And then testing and updating either monthly, or by set?
I'd love to see a sticky with this hypothetical list and a FAQ for people who are new to this like the great cube resource thread.
I posted this in the other thread and then realized that there was this thread already:
Somebody proposes a base list of 360 (or fewer) cards or a base cube to work with. We can just use the stock 360 peasant cube or whatever. Then, other players weigh in and can initiate motions to vote for inclusions and exclusions. Majority vote win, etc. You can only weigh in and vote if you post, so just clicking in a poll is NOT ENOUGH. You have to have an argument or viewpoint that generates discussion. The point is discussion and eventual agreement, rather than arguing.
rezombied has the good point that we can alternately achieve our starting point by compiling the most commonly overlapping cards in all of our cubes. That is probably a better start than the stock cube, and we'll use our remaining voting power and time to decide on the remaining cards to fill out the cube. Colors will be balanced and everything when we're done.
First, some ground rules: Controversial cards should be dropped. We should immediately agree on the guild/hybrid system classification right in the beginning. We should highlight which strategies we want to include for each color pair (which will help decide what cards go in each guild section), but definitely focus on just raw power over combo type stuff. Cards should be strictly common/uncommon in gatherer on paper magic, and our cardpool access should be vintage. We should use the more inclusive banlist as opposed to a more exclusive one, so by that I mean be more conservative rather than more liberal. This way, it doesn't wreck the experiences of a player just starting the peasant cube and they can later include Sol Ring and Skullclamp if they'd like.
That way we kind of have guidelines to follow and our card choices will be to stick to the guidelines when possible.
Deep Analysis is awesome, and it's a high pick in my group.
The black aggro creatures obviously depend on whether or not black aggro is supported; I support it, so I run most of those, but the cube may delegate black to a midrange or control colour.
Naturalize is very cubeable, but I prefer to keep this sideboard material on creatures, such as Leonin Relic-Warder for example, to maximize the use of a limited resource.
So, in short, I agree with citynoise's list except for Deep Analysis.
I support a black aggro package and can't see why you'd want to remove some of the best 2/2 for 1s in the cube and evasive beaters of any color. It's probably because you'd rather run more recursion instead of an aggressive set?
I can see the argument against:
Otherworldly Journey - If you don't support blink
Deep Analysis - Very slow, costs life in an already hard matchup
Dauthi Horror, Dauthi Marauder - If you really hate shadow
Vampire Interloper - Crappy Pegasus
Rift Bolt - Slow-bolt, but it's still a bolt
Moroii - No guild slot for it
Loyal is WW and it's not worth it. Arrest is poor 3 cmc removal. Delver is inconsistent. Dissipate is poor 3 cmc counter. Knight of Infamy has protection and exalted, which isn't exactly great. Sign in Blood isn't worth it at BB. I still don't like Urban Evolution. Ulamog and Artisan at 360 is too many, and Artisan is enough already.
It always drives me nuts to hear people not play these game-winning cards.
I also sent a message to the cube-forum's resident mathematician (hint: it rhymes with Heidolon) and am awaiting a reply.
Agree, I didn't cut them for powerlevel reasons, I cut them because literally nobody except me ever drafted Bx aggro no matter how well it did. Ever. I just don't think people like blackaggro, at least that has been my experience.
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I write about cube and run cube drafts on magic online.
Loyal is WW and it's not worth it. Arrest is poor 3 cmc removal. Delver is inconsistent. Dissipate is poor 3 cmc counter. Knight of Infamy has protection and exalted, which isn't exactly great. Sign in Blood isn't worth it at BB. I still don't like Urban Evolution. Ulamog and Artisan at 360 is too many, and Artisan is enough already.
Not sure how to agree with this more
(except I don't think baleful strix or genju of the spires is 100% staple. Obviously perfectly acceptable though and wouldn't argue against them)
Obviously there are many tiers of stapleness and as soon as we dig a tad further than the top one, there's disagreement because of different archetype support. There's the first tier, the Lightning Bolts, Mulldrifters, and Cities of Brass of this world. Most people know most of these, but we as a community have found a couple of gems and especially for newer players and older cards, we could compile a list of "cards you should know exist". Carnophage, Goblin Bombardment, Blastoderm, Mistral Charger, Cloudgoat Ranger, Staggershock, Animate Dead, Hymn to Tourach. They don't necessarily need to be absolute staples and uncuttable, but they should be the kind of cards that are best at what they do.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I think what we are trying to do here is such a daunting task. There are so many differing opinions on cards, that creating a custom cube will be incredibly difficult. Wouldn't it be easier to have a tab on the site, perhaps labeled "Sample Cubes" or "Cube Lists" that show the site's contributors' cubes? I don't know... I have a feeling that this will be hard to agree upon.
I think we can come to a consensus on the very core of the cube, probably about 240 cards that are about staple among everybody. The remaining 120 can be decided via vote for archetypal support (which colors are aggro, is blue tempo-supported, ramp support, graveyard durdle package, which colors are control) such that I think this project is doable.
In my mind it is also a bottom line. Oh im testing such and such card today in the basic cube list, i dint like so and so's list that runs 'whatever card'.
In my mind it is also a bottom line. Oh im testing such and such card today in the basic cube list, i dint like so and so's list that runs 'whatever card'.
I know I would never bother to put together the sample cube, would anybody?
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I write about cube and run cube drafts on magic online.
peasantcube.blogspot.com
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How would we do this?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I'd bet eidolon would help if we asked nicely.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
Some people categorize rarity based on paper, some on paper AND online.
I play with snow cards. People play with UN- cards.
Also where to categorize certain cards will matter too, since I know people have varying opinions on the guild system, hybrids, Phyrexian mana and the like.
How many cards for each color and each guild?
I would think these questions should be answered before doing card choices.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
For now 'how many cards of each color?', 'Any cards banned?' etc. should be the topics of discussion while people compile their lists.
It might make a good jumping off point, but I think it is updated too frequently.
Maybe establish a list using that as a basis. And then testing and updating either monthly, or by set?
I'd love to see a sticky with this hypothetical list and a FAQ for people who are new to this like the great cube resource thread.
peasantcube.blogspot.com
Somebody proposes a base list of 360 (or fewer) cards or a base cube to work with. We can just use the stock 360 peasant cube or whatever. Then, other players weigh in and can initiate motions to vote for inclusions and exclusions. Majority vote win, etc. You can only weigh in and vote if you post, so just clicking in a poll is NOT ENOUGH. You have to have an argument or viewpoint that generates discussion. The point is discussion and eventual agreement, rather than arguing.
rezombied has the good point that we can alternately achieve our starting point by compiling the most commonly overlapping cards in all of our cubes. That is probably a better start than the stock cube, and we'll use our remaining voting power and time to decide on the remaining cards to fill out the cube. Colors will be balanced and everything when we're done.
First, some ground rules: Controversial cards should be dropped. We should immediately agree on the guild/hybrid system classification right in the beginning. We should highlight which strategies we want to include for each color pair (which will help decide what cards go in each guild section), but definitely focus on just raw power over combo type stuff. Cards should be strictly common/uncommon in gatherer on paper magic, and our cardpool access should be vintage. We should use the more inclusive banlist as opposed to a more exclusive one, so by that I mean be more conservative rather than more liberal. This way, it doesn't wreck the experiences of a player just starting the peasant cube and they can later include Sol Ring and Skullclamp if they'd like.
That way we kind of have guidelines to follow and our card choices will be to stick to the guidelines when possible.
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
Aven Riftwatcher
Otherworldly Journey
Archaeomancer
Brainstorm
Deep Analysis
Carnophage
Diregraf Ghoul
Vampire Lacerator
Dauthi Horror
Nezumi Cutthroat
Vampire Interloper
Dauthi Marauder
Rift Bolt
Naturalize
Deputy of Acquittals
Moroii
peasantcube.blogspot.com
Deep Analysis is awesome, and it's a high pick in my group.
The black aggro creatures obviously depend on whether or not black aggro is supported; I support it, so I run most of those, but the cube may delegate black to a midrange or control colour.
Naturalize is very cubeable, but I prefer to keep this sideboard material on creatures, such as Leonin Relic-Warder for example, to maximize the use of a limited resource.
So, in short, I agree with citynoise's list except for Deep Analysis.
Disagree on the rest.
I support a black aggro package and can't see why you'd want to remove some of the best 2/2 for 1s in the cube and evasive beaters of any color. It's probably because you'd rather run more recursion instead of an aggressive set?
I can see the argument against:
Otherworldly Journey - If you don't support blink
Deep Analysis - Very slow, costs life in an already hard matchup
Dauthi Horror, Dauthi Marauder - If you really hate shadow
Vampire Interloper - Crappy Pegasus
Rift Bolt - Slow-bolt, but it's still a bolt
Moroii - No guild slot for it
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
peasantcube.blogspot.com
!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?
It always drives me nuts to hear people not play these game-winning cards.
I also sent a message to the cube-forum's resident mathematician (hint: it rhymes with Heidolon) and am awaiting a reply.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I know right?
Anyway, here's my list of cards I don't like in the 360:
Loyal is WW and it's not worth it. Arrest is poor 3 cmc removal. Delver is inconsistent. Dissipate is poor 3 cmc counter. Knight of Infamy has protection and exalted, which isn't exactly great. Sign in Blood isn't worth it at BB. I still don't like Urban Evolution. Ulamog and Artisan at 360 is too many, and Artisan is enough already.
where's the regrowth and city of brass?
baleful strix? rolling thunder? genju of the spires?
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
Agree, I didn't cut them for powerlevel reasons, I cut them because literally nobody except me ever drafted Bx aggro no matter how well it did. Ever. I just don't think people like blackaggro, at least that has been my experience.
peasantcube.blogspot.com
Not sure how to agree with this more
(except I don't think baleful strix or genju of the spires is 100% staple. Obviously perfectly acceptable though and wouldn't argue against them)
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
I know I would never bother to put together the sample cube, would anybody?
peasantcube.blogspot.com