Now that the TOC and TOU eliminations are over, we have our winners! Congratulations to each of the final four of the TOC and the TOU. With that, the tournaments have officially come to a close… but that doesn’t prevent us from having some “Bonus Matches” to find out who the best of the best really are.
This set of Bonus Matches wants to find out: If we pit the finalists of the TOC and TOU against each other, who would win?
Team "Wizard Guide" - Gandalf the White and Albus Dumbledore
The members of both teams are transported to a different dimension with all information about their opponents “uploaded” into their minds. They have 30 minutes to prepare and talk to each other (they don’t know anything about each other as teammates, save for any experience from previous matches of this same tournament), and will also have full access to any technology, magic, weaponry, resources, etc. which they would routinely be able to use from their respective universes. Teammates may share resources with each other. Afterwards, both teams are teleported to the randomly chosen plane, which has mystically sealed off so that none of them can escape the battlefield in any way. The team that manages to knock out and/or kill both members of the opposing team will be declared the winner. There is no time limit.
Write ups for both teams:
Team "Wizard Guide" - Gandalf the White and Albus Dumbledore
The most powerful wizards of their respective universes, both paragons for the forces of good, somewhat eccentric, and incredibly capable in dealing with dark opponents, these fantastic champions will use their wisdom, experience, and skills to outclass their opponents. While Gandalf is the more capable fighter in hand to hand combat, Albus has an array of vast magic up his sleeve as well. Together, they would be a formidable force for any who isn't ready for their magical onslaught.
Everyone knows Dumbledore dies on page 596... But we also know from Tolkien that Wizards don't really die. In death Dumbledore returns to Valinor. The Valar have a new task for their Wizards. Earth is entering a new age, an age of heroes. Some of those heroes are misguided and the Valar are sending the Wizard counsel to help guide them to a new age of peace. Gandalf the White is entrusted to help train the newest member of the Maiar, Dumbledore the Grey, as they guide Earth's new heroes against the forces of evil.
Team "Psychic Monsters" - Nicol Bolas and Mewtwo
How might they be if they ever met up? After the end of the Totally-can't-think-of-a-good-name war, Nicol Bolas was finnally defeated by a group of Little Girls and their over-protective moms. "Back to the drawing board then" he thinks as he planes-walks to his hidden base on an unknown world, as he's sitting on the couch he turns to the multi-verse news, where he sees this magnificant creature, with remarkable Psychic powers much like his own. After much studying on this creature he comes to find out it's name, Mewtwo. and he knows what must be done. He build up all of his mental strength to P-walk to this new location he's never been to, after preparing for what, he doesn't know he's off.
On this new world he sees remarkable things, little rats shooting electricity, wingless dragons breathing fire, even a giant turtle shooting water. But not what he was looking for. It is said that what/who he is looking for is very rare and hard to find. After years of searching he finally come to the place of it's home. A lone island in the middle of a giant sea. When he knocks on the door there is no answer, just this little camera atop the door looking at him. He finally gets angry after a few tries and blasts his way through the door. When he steps through the smoky ruins of the frame he is hit by some kind of energy blast, and he can feel someone trying to infiltrate his thoughts. "Who is this, some powerful blue planeswalker?" He yelled through the smoke. "No, it is I, the most powerful of pokemon" says the voice, but not out loud, in his head. "What do you want with me?" said the voice. "I would ask for a partnership" says Bolas in his head to the voice. "One with great power beyond your wildest imagination." a slight pause. "What kind of power?" says the voice, while the smoke is all but settled steps out this creature Bolas has been seeking. "Power to rule the muti-verse" and the creature looked confused. "What is this 'Multi-verse'' it asks. "Agree to help me and I shall Show you" Replied Bolas.
"Okay" Said the creature, "I am Mewtwo" So the two talked for hours and hours exchanging information and explaining the different world. Bolas explained about planeswalking, and being a walker, and the multi-verse, while Mewtwo explained about his world and how humans catch "pokemon". Then they form a partnership to take over the Multi-verse. But as they go to planeswalk away, something goes amiss and they are abruptly thrown into this arena. Where high above their head there seems to be a poll going, and they feel like all of their powers have been drained. but as the poll goes up for their side they start regaining their powers, and some mystical force beyond anything they can do is putting them up against these strange enemies that they've never seen before. What will happen if they win?
How do I vote for the team I like? Well, I'm glad you asked...
This tournament uses a “Dual-Voting System” in which every user on MTGS may vote twice, once on the poll of the thread, and once by posting on the thread itself (by explicitly stating “I vote for team *insert name* because *insert reason*” in a post on the thread). You may spread these votes as you wish (you can vote anonymously on the poll for one team, but express your vote publicly through a post for another), or use them both to vote for the same team, or only vote once (using either method). In the end, the total of both "poll" and "post" votes will be used to determine a winner. In the event of a tie between total votes, the team with the most votes posted publicly on the thread itself shall be declared the winner, and move on to the next round. You only have one week to vote (two weeks for the semi-finals and finals), and the poll automatically closes on Sunday, 12MN (GMT +1). Only posts that occur before that time will be counted as valid votes.
Now, who wins this match? Root for your favorites now!
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Geez talk about terrain both teams can abuse, Mewtwo not so much but still.
My first instinct tells me wizard guide but Bolas is much bigger than any of the dragons from the Harry Potter /LOTR universe and as far as I know none of them can use magic so this is a new type of enemy for wizard guide to be facing.
Seeing as Bolas is apparently an Oldwalker again as a result of the final TOU match, I can only presume that this one is in the bag for the Psychics, especially given the terrain. Cool matchup but inevitably I think the wizards will run out of juice in this ultimately suiting final resting ground.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't care how angelic Gandolf is, and frankly I never had ANY confidence in Dumbledoor as a combatant in the first place, IMO he does not belong here (Gandolf sure, but NOT dumbledoor) So yes, Bolas wins, Brutaly, quickly efficently, with fire/instants and mind screw jobs, These people are from low (Lotr) and medium (Dumbeldoor) magic worlds they may be top notch IN their worlds but Bolas is a whole other class of combatant, He domiantes MANY worlds, He has engaged people the the physical incarnation of their universes magic and Lived to tell the tale.
Based on their performance in the tournament so far, WG will be a very hard team to beat, even with the lead their opponents have at the moment.
Poll votes:
WG - 4
PM - 5
Post votes:
WG - 0
PM - 3
Total votes:
WG - 4
PM - 8
This has to be the first time where WG is trailing behind an opponent with currently double the votes... surprising, but it's too early to say anything!
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Such is the nature of a tournament like this, with wildly varying powers and strategies - one team winning does not mean they could have beaten all the teams below them.
Vote: Psychic Monsters.
Dumbledore's got some impressive magic. It might even be close to the same level as Bolas in many ways. But Bolas is still a dragon. Knowing his opponents, I think the best bet is for Bolas to start the fight setting up an anti-magic field over the entire terrain. Then we have a scary psychic pokemon and an Elder Dragon up against two humans. Easy.
Okay, I guess I've technically never seen him do that, even though I have no doubt he could, but let's stick to what we know. Counterspell, counterspell, counterspell, psychic attacks by Mewtwo win the day. Done. No matter how you slice it, Psychic Monsters are not losing this fight.
Dumbledore's got some impressive magic. It might even be close to the same level as Bolas in many ways. But Bolas is still a dragon. Knowing his opponents, I think the best bet is for Bolas to start the fight setting up an anti-magic field over the entire terrain. Then we have a scary psychic pokemon and an Elder Dragon up against two humans. Easy.
You're referencing Order of the Stick, aren't you?
Assuming that Bolas has this spell, and it works, this should also put Mewtwo out of commission. Psychic and Dark type Pokémon are the closest thing the Pokémon world has to actual magic (as seen in the Abra, Kadabra and Alakazam family line, and the existence of Mismagius), so assuming that Bolas has such a spell, it should effectively neuter anything Mewtwo has to offer. He's not exactly physically strong.
Now, assuming Bolas does have this spell, would it cover all types of Magic? We've established that Middle Earth magic, Harry Potter Magic, and MTG Magic are all very different by nature. If this hypothetical spell could affect all types of magic, I wouldn't know.
Even assuming this works, how about lending the Sword of Gryffindor to Gandalf? I'm not sure if that will also be cancelled out by virtue of being a magical artifact, but the Basilisk venom infused in it should mean a single cut could potentially be fatal to either Mewtwo or Bolas. How good is Bolas' immune system?
Also, Mewtwo's psychic attacks... Albus has a resistance to it by virtue of being a master of Occlumency. In the Liliana versus Snape thread, someone brought up that Liliana probably couldn't mind rape Snape for this reason, so I don't think Mewtwo could royally scramble the Wizard's minds if Dumbledore decides to employ some protective measures against it.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But being psychic is a supernatural ability. Psychic visions, mind reading, aura sensing, third eyes, soothsaying, extrasensory perception, telekinesis... all of that is inherently connected to magic. Then again, I suppose it depends on the universe. In the Pokémon world, one can argue that it's all "elemental". Still, Sabrina used her psychic powers to transform Misty, Brock and her parents into dolls, so if that's not magic, then I don't know what is.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
But being psychic is a supernatural ability. Psychic visions, mind reading, aura sensing, third eyes, soothsaying, extrasensory perception, telekinesis... all of that is inherently connected to magic. Then again, I suppose it depends on the universe. In the Pokémon world, one can argue that it's all "elemental". Still, Sabrina used her psychic powers to transform Misty, Brock and her parents into dolls, so if that's not magic, then I don't know what is.
Psychic Powers are NOT directly linked to magic.
Psychic powers use the power of the mind, you can be psychic and not be able to cast fireballs or summon things...
There are psychics in real life, yet we know magic to be not real.
Mewtwo wouldn't be affected by countermagic, or anti-magic fields.
Plus, I'd love to see Gandalf get close enough to Bolas to cut him with a sword. Gandalf is still bound to the laws of physics, thusly a larger, MUCH larger being creating some torrential winds would DEFINATELY be able to knock him back. Plus, can the sword pierce Dragonscale?
Vote: Psychic Monsters.
Bolas' magic just simply outclasses anything Gandalf and especially Dumbledore can conjur up... Bolas' magic spans worlds and centuries, Dumbledore's magic can't compare.
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But wouldn't Gandalf's magic not be affected by anti-magic field created by a creature that derives magic in a different way? I mean, Gandalf's magic stems from a completely different plane of existence with different laws. If we give an exception to Mewtwo, because we equate his psychic powers with ones we perceive in our lives, then why does Gandalf's magic get affected?
But wouldn't Gandalf's magic not be affected by anti-magic field created by a creature that derives magic in a different way? I mean, Gandalf's magic stems from a completely different plane of existence with different laws. If we give an exception to Mewtwo, because we equate his psychic powers with ones we perceive in our lives, then why does Gandalf's magic get affected?
Either way, Dumbledore's magic just doesn't match up to Bolas'.
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No, but they can be associated with magic, as I have demonstrated in my last post. Things involving spirits, the occult, and the supernatural all have inherent ties with psychic powers in fiction: Constantine is a good example.
Psychic powers use the power of the mind, you can be psychic and not be able to cast fireballs or summon things...
There are psychics in real life, yet we know magic to be not real.
Mewtwo wouldn't be affected by countermagic, or anti-magic fields.
Which is why I did say it depends on the medium, and the fictional universe. I am aware that psychics exist in real life (though their powers are not as exaggerated as they are in fiction). I even have friends who seem to exhibit such powers.
However, if you're comparing real-life psychic powers to the ones in the Pokémon world in order to "exempt" Mewtwo from an anti-magical field, there are a few things I see wrong with that.
Real life psychics (to my knowledge) cannot transform people into inanimate objects.
Psychics in the Pokémon world, however, can.
In the above video, Sabrina displays her psychic powers. Some of them are the usual stuff (spoon bending, telekinesis, levitation, etc.), but at around 0:20 she truns Brock and Misty into dolls. You mean to tell me that's not magic just because of the way real psychic powers work? If so, I could argue that because of the way real life human magicians (like David Blaine) perform magic, Dumbledore and Gandalf (being of human form) would likewise be exempt from Bolas' magic field, and he's essentially shooting himself in the knee by trying that.
We can compare guns, swords, cars, etc. to their real life counterparts (as we often do in the Versus Forum), but I think psychic powers are a bit of a stretch.
Plus, I'd love to see Gandalf get close enough to Bolas to cut him with a sword. Gandalf is still bound to the laws of physics, thusly a larger, MUCH larger being creating some torrential winds would DEFINATELY be able to knock him back. Plus, can the sword pierce Dragonscale?
If the anti-magical field works, then everyone is bound by the laws of physics, so I don't see why Gandalf should be the only one negatively affected by it. If it doesn't, then magic would allow him to be able to get close. As for the sword piercing dragonscale, it can destroy an otherwise indestructible magical object known as a Horcrux, thereby easily bypassing the most powerful enchantments set up by the most feared dark wizard of the HP universe, and using basilisk venom to break it to bits. Unless Bolas has really good resistance to poison, a clean strike from the sword could arguably create a single cut big enough for it to enter his system, and basilisk venom is lethal, unless you have magical healing powers, which I don't think is in his spell list.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I would argue that the sheer size of bolas would make the poison less effective.
I mean look at Harry in Chamber of Secrets. He accidentally impales his arm on the Basilisk tooth and is now feeling the venom. He manages to wander over to the middle of the room and destroy the diary before plot intervenes to save him before he dies. That's a good minute or two where he isn't just dead.
Now compare Harry to the size of the dragon he fought in Goblet of fire. Now compare that to the dragons flying around Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker card.
The sheer difference in size would cause a massive difference in the effectiveness of the poison.
It's like putting a couple of drops of food coloring into a cup of water, and then putting the same amount of drops in a lake.
The poison will be to diluted to for it to have any lasting effects.
"Things involving spirits, the occult, and the supernatural all have inherent ties with psychic powers in fiction: Constantine is a good example."
I just don't see spirits, the occult, and the supernatural being related to magic. It's an entirely different branch of power, IMO - until you start getting into necromancy, and that's a totally different story.
@Poring: When did Gandalf get Godric Gryffindor's sword?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ok, let's say the Sword of Gryffindor kills anything at a touch. Let's say also that it cuts through any enchantment or defensive magic. Bolas, being surrounded by every protective shield he knows at the beginning of the match, fears this as the only thing that could possibly hurt him. So he starts the fight casting Shatter. Easy?
Ok, let's say the Sword of Gryffindor kills anything at a touch. Let's say also that it cuts through any enchantment or defensive magic. Bolas, being surrounded by every protective shield he knows at the beginning of the match, fears this as the only thing that could possibly hurt him. So he starts the fight casting Shatter. Easy?
I would say Shatterstorm would be better spell for him to cast, also blows up Dumbleedore's wand, and Gandalf's sword and staff.
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There are psychics in real life, yet we know magic to be not real.
There are people that call themselves psychics... and people that believe them... but I have never seen any tangible proof that psychics really exist.
Also the Sword of Gryfindor is indestructible. In fact it takes on the properties of anything that tries to destroy it (which is how it gains poison) so it stands to reason that an attempt to shatter it would cause it to gain the power to shatter any object it touches.
Ok, let's say the Sword of Gryffindor kills anything at a touch. Let's say also that it cuts through any enchantment or defensive magic. Bolas, being surrounded by every protective shield he knows at the beginning of the match, fears this as the only thing that could possibly hurt him. So he starts the fight casting Shatter. Easy?
I suppose that would work, except, 1) as Fluffy_Bunny pointed out, the sword is indestructible, and 2) though not very well known, there are counterspells in the HP universe, though we never see them in the movies. In the books, Snape fought Harry Potter towards the end of the 6th one by countering Harry's spells with his mind, if I remember correctly.
I don't think that people give Mewtwo enough credit, but that is probably because most people know anime mewtwo.
Manga mewtwo is insanely powerful.
Blaine, who created Mewtwo, was forced to put some of his DNA(if I am remembering correctly) into mewtwo in order to control him, and although mewtwo is obediant, he is so powerful that an attempt to control him for over several minutes destroyes the trainer's body. Blaine had him outside of the pokeball for more than three minutes and he lost a great portion of his hand.
Even the Anime Mewtwo was still insanely powerful, it's just that power creep over the several generations of Pokémon that have passed since then needed to step up the game by creating stronger and stronger opponents for Ash and company to face.
There are people that call themselves psychics... and people that believe them... but I have never seen any tangible proof that psychics really exist.
The same goes for magicians, priests, exorcists, etc. which only proves my point a bit further in that psychic powers are comparable to magic in many aspects.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
When Dumbledore lent it to him two rounds ago, once one or two WG supporters realized that it would be in better hands with Gandalf.
I suppose that would work, except, 1) as Fluffy_Bunny pointed out, the sword is indestructible, and 2) though not very well known, there are counterspells in the HP universe, though we never see them in the movies. In the books, Snape fought Harry Potter towards the end of the 6th one by countering Harry's spells with his mind, if I remember correctly.
Even the Anime Mewtwo was still insanely powerful, it's just that power creep over the several generations of Pokémon that have passed since then needed to step up the game by creating stronger and stronger opponents for Ash and company to face.
The same goes for magicians, priests, exorcists, etc. which only proves my point a bit further in that psychic powers are comparable to magic in many aspects.
No no, Snape didn't use a counterspell, Snape was the CREATOR of the spell that Harry was using, plus, Harry didn't have enough hate toward Snape for the spell to go off. So technically, not countermagic, it was just Harry not fulfilling the casting Requirements.
Either way, Bolas would know that the sword is indestructible, the previous rounds would be public knowledge to everyone involved, and the knowledge about anything they use, public knowledge. (Except, Bolas is really good at keeping secrets, Altering perception, etc. He might use this to his advantage.)
Bolas can wage war with these two on two different planes, the Physical, AND the mental plane, at the same time. He can be fighting them physically, whilst withering away their mental defenses in preparation for his mind-magic. It's also logical to think that Bolas would be far more able to shatter mental defenses because, ya know, he's practiced mind-magic for eons, I highly doubt Dumbledore and Gandalf can weather this assault on their minds, sure, there are charms in the HP universe, but none quite as strong as what Bolas himself is capable. Plus, Mewtwo is still a factor here. What's stopping him from using telekinesis and stealing the Sword of Griffindor? Or using Psychic and using the terrain as a weapon?
I just don't see Wizard guide being able to hit them... Not when both members of Psychic Monsters can fly...
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No no, Snape didn't use a counterspell, Snape was the CREATOR of the spell that Harry was using, plus, Harry didn't have enough hate toward Snape for the spell to go off. So technically, not countermagic, it was just Harry not fulfilling the casting Requirements.
Ah, apologies. It seems I was not clear. I was referring to the incident at the end of the 6th book, where...
Snape kills Dumbledore. Harry gives chase. Snape effortlessly counters anything Harry throws at him by blocking it as it is being nonverbally cast in Harry's mind. True, half of them are spells Snape created, but the rest are not, and Snape outright tells Harry what he's doing wrong.
Also, I think you're mixing things up a bit. The only incident, if my memory serves, where Harry didn't have enough hate to cast a spell on someone was on Bellatrix Lestrange, in the 4th book, and that was only because he was using righteous anger (the "good" kind) to fuel the Cruciatus Curse when it should have been malicious, sadistic anger in order to work. Technically, it still worked, but just wasn't as potent.
The point is, countermagic clearly does exist in the HP universe, we just never really see it used in the series. Also, the link provided shows how HP mages have a rather long list of ways of countering spells, though the HP lore never actually refers to it as such. I'll link to it again... here.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
even if the sword is indestructable, a simple bounce spell will return it to whence it came :). Bolas managed to crush people whos main sole focus in LIFE was mental defense/offense, I would also like to offer Control magic or any of the other blue mind control enchantments
So does bolas have access to every single red, blue and black spell in all of magic? It seems like that's what many are implying with the arguments I'm seeing. Personally I think that's too far reaching and just lame. He's powerful, but he's not that powerful.
So does bolas have access to every single red, blue and black spell in all of magic? It seems like that's what many are implying with the arguments I'm seeing. Personally I think that's too far reaching and just lame. He's powerful, but he's not that powerful.
It's been a problem with the planeswalkers through this whole tourny. One person will think a planeswalker can cast any spell in magic at will despite it making no sense (especially since many of these characters have books to go on and they never show that level of power).
The bounce comment is laughable... Why on Earth would a "bounce" return an item back to where it came from (ie Dumbledore's closet)? Heck why not just bounce the other team if it's that easy?
They way I would see it... in a game of magic each turn contains an attack and the creatures are able to fully heal between attacks... Seems to me that a turn lasts days if not weeks... That means it takes that long to gain each land in a game, and that long for a land to refresh it's mana.
This set of Bonus Matches wants to find out: If we pit the finalists of the TOC and TOU against each other, who would win?
Team "Wizard Guide" - Gandalf the White and Albus Dumbledore
vs.
Team "Psychic Monsters" - Nicol Bolas and Mewtwo
Fighting in: The Trail of the Mage-Rings (Vryn)
The members of both teams are transported to a different dimension with all information about their opponents “uploaded” into their minds. They have 30 minutes to prepare and talk to each other (they don’t know anything about each other as teammates, save for any experience from previous matches of this same tournament), and will also have full access to any technology, magic, weaponry, resources, etc. which they would routinely be able to use from their respective universes. Teammates may share resources with each other. Afterwards, both teams are teleported to the randomly chosen plane, which has mystically sealed off so that none of them can escape the battlefield in any way. The team that manages to knock out and/or kill both members of the opposing team will be declared the winner. There is no time limit.
Write ups for both teams:
Team "Wizard Guide" - Gandalf the White and Albus Dumbledore
The most powerful wizards of their respective universes, both paragons for the forces of good, somewhat eccentric, and incredibly capable in dealing with dark opponents, these fantastic champions will use their wisdom, experience, and skills to outclass their opponents. While Gandalf is the more capable fighter in hand to hand combat, Albus has an array of vast magic up his sleeve as well. Together, they would be a formidable force for any who isn't ready for their magical onslaught.
Everyone knows Dumbledore dies on page 596... But we also know from Tolkien that Wizards don't really die. In death Dumbledore returns to Valinor. The Valar have a new task for their Wizards. Earth is entering a new age, an age of heroes. Some of those heroes are misguided and the Valar are sending the Wizard counsel to help guide them to a new age of peace. Gandalf the White is entrusted to help train the newest member of the Maiar, Dumbledore the Grey, as they guide Earth's new heroes against the forces of evil.
Team "Psychic Monsters" - Nicol Bolas and Mewtwo
How might they be if they ever met up? After the end of the Totally-can't-think-of-a-good-name war, Nicol Bolas was finnally defeated by a group of Little Girls and their over-protective moms. "Back to the drawing board then" he thinks as he planes-walks to his hidden base on an unknown world, as he's sitting on the couch he turns to the multi-verse news, where he sees this magnificant creature, with remarkable Psychic powers much like his own. After much studying on this creature he comes to find out it's name, Mewtwo. and he knows what must be done. He build up all of his mental strength to P-walk to this new location he's never been to, after preparing for what, he doesn't know he's off.
On this new world he sees remarkable things, little rats shooting electricity, wingless dragons breathing fire, even a giant turtle shooting water. But not what he was looking for. It is said that what/who he is looking for is very rare and hard to find. After years of searching he finally come to the place of it's home. A lone island in the middle of a giant sea. When he knocks on the door there is no answer, just this little camera atop the door looking at him. He finally gets angry after a few tries and blasts his way through the door. When he steps through the smoky ruins of the frame he is hit by some kind of energy blast, and he can feel someone trying to infiltrate his thoughts. "Who is this, some powerful blue planeswalker?" He yelled through the smoke. "No, it is I, the most powerful of pokemon" says the voice, but not out loud, in his head. "What do you want with me?" said the voice. "I would ask for a partnership" says Bolas in his head to the voice. "One with great power beyond your wildest imagination." a slight pause. "What kind of power?" says the voice, while the smoke is all but settled steps out this creature Bolas has been seeking. "Power to rule the muti-verse" and the creature looked confused. "What is this 'Multi-verse'' it asks. "Agree to help me and I shall Show you" Replied Bolas.
"Okay" Said the creature, "I am Mewtwo" So the two talked for hours and hours exchanging information and explaining the different world. Bolas explained about planeswalking, and being a walker, and the multi-verse, while Mewtwo explained about his world and how humans catch "pokemon". Then they form a partnership to take over the Multi-verse. But as they go to planeswalk away, something goes amiss and they are abruptly thrown into this arena. Where high above their head there seems to be a poll going, and they feel like all of their powers have been drained. but as the poll goes up for their side they start regaining their powers, and some mystical force beyond anything they can do is putting them up against these strange enemies that they've never seen before. What will happen if they win?
How do I vote for the team I like? Well, I'm glad you asked...
Now, who wins this match?
How well do you do against one?
My first instinct tells me wizard guide but Bolas is much bigger than any of the dragons from the Harry Potter /LOTR universe and as far as I know none of them can use magic so this is a new type of enemy for wizard guide to be facing.
Vote Psychic Monsters
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Vote Psychic Monsters.
Vote Psychic Monsters
Bolas has more magic then both Wizard guides combined.
Poll votes:
WG - 4
PM - 5
Post votes:
WG - 0
PM - 3
Total votes:
WG - 4
PM - 8
This has to be the first time where WG is trailing behind an opponent with currently double the votes... surprising, but it's too early to say anything!
How well do you do against one?
Vote: Psychic Monsters.
Dumbledore's got some impressive magic. It might even be close to the same level as Bolas in many ways. But Bolas is still a dragon. Knowing his opponents, I think the best bet is for Bolas to start the fight setting up an anti-magic field over the entire terrain. Then we have a scary psychic pokemon and an Elder Dragon up against two humans. Easy.
Okay, I guess I've technically never seen him do that, even though I have no doubt he could, but let's stick to what we know. Counterspell, counterspell, counterspell, psychic attacks by Mewtwo win the day. Done. No matter how you slice it, Psychic Monsters are not losing this fight.
You're referencing Order of the Stick, aren't you?
Assuming that Bolas has this spell, and it works, this should also put Mewtwo out of commission. Psychic and Dark type Pokémon are the closest thing the Pokémon world has to actual magic (as seen in the Abra, Kadabra and Alakazam family line, and the existence of Mismagius), so assuming that Bolas has such a spell, it should effectively neuter anything Mewtwo has to offer. He's not exactly physically strong.
Now, assuming Bolas does have this spell, would it cover all types of Magic? We've established that Middle Earth magic, Harry Potter Magic, and MTG Magic are all very different by nature. If this hypothetical spell could affect all types of magic, I wouldn't know.
Even assuming this works, how about lending the Sword of Gryffindor to Gandalf? I'm not sure if that will also be cancelled out by virtue of being a magical artifact, but the Basilisk venom infused in it should mean a single cut could potentially be fatal to either Mewtwo or Bolas. How good is Bolas' immune system?
Also, Mewtwo's psychic attacks... Albus has a resistance to it by virtue of being a master of Occlumency. In the Liliana versus Snape thread, someone brought up that Liliana probably couldn't mind rape Snape for this reason, so I don't think Mewtwo could royally scramble the Wizard's minds if Dumbledore decides to employ some protective measures against it.
How well do you do against one?
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But being psychic is a supernatural ability. Psychic visions, mind reading, aura sensing, third eyes, soothsaying, extrasensory perception, telekinesis... all of that is inherently connected to magic. Then again, I suppose it depends on the universe. In the Pokémon world, one can argue that it's all "elemental". Still, Sabrina used her psychic powers to transform Misty, Brock and her parents into dolls, so if that's not magic, then I don't know what is.
How well do you do against one?
Psychic Powers are NOT directly linked to magic.
Psychic powers use the power of the mind, you can be psychic and not be able to cast fireballs or summon things...
There are psychics in real life, yet we know magic to be not real.
Mewtwo wouldn't be affected by countermagic, or anti-magic fields.
Plus, I'd love to see Gandalf get close enough to Bolas to cut him with a sword. Gandalf is still bound to the laws of physics, thusly a larger, MUCH larger being creating some torrential winds would DEFINATELY be able to knock him back. Plus, can the sword pierce Dragonscale?
Vote: Psychic Monsters.
Bolas' magic just simply outclasses anything Gandalf and especially Dumbledore can conjur up... Bolas' magic spans worlds and centuries, Dumbledore's magic can't compare.
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Either way, Dumbledore's magic just doesn't match up to Bolas'.
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No, but they can be associated with magic, as I have demonstrated in my last post. Things involving spirits, the occult, and the supernatural all have inherent ties with psychic powers in fiction: Constantine is a good example.
Which is why I did say it depends on the medium, and the fictional universe. I am aware that psychics exist in real life (though their powers are not as exaggerated as they are in fiction). I even have friends who seem to exhibit such powers.
However, if you're comparing real-life psychic powers to the ones in the Pokémon world in order to "exempt" Mewtwo from an anti-magical field, there are a few things I see wrong with that.
Real life psychics (to my knowledge) cannot transform people into inanimate objects.
Psychics in the Pokémon world, however, can.
In the above video, Sabrina displays her psychic powers. Some of them are the usual stuff (spoon bending, telekinesis, levitation, etc.), but at around 0:20 she truns Brock and Misty into dolls. You mean to tell me that's not magic just because of the way real psychic powers work? If so, I could argue that because of the way real life human magicians (like David Blaine) perform magic, Dumbledore and Gandalf (being of human form) would likewise be exempt from Bolas' magic field, and he's essentially shooting himself in the knee by trying that.
We can compare guns, swords, cars, etc. to their real life counterparts (as we often do in the Versus Forum), but I think psychic powers are a bit of a stretch.
If the anti-magical field works, then everyone is bound by the laws of physics, so I don't see why Gandalf should be the only one negatively affected by it. If it doesn't, then magic would allow him to be able to get close. As for the sword piercing dragonscale, it can destroy an otherwise indestructible magical object known as a Horcrux, thereby easily bypassing the most powerful enchantments set up by the most feared dark wizard of the HP universe, and using basilisk venom to break it to bits. Unless Bolas has really good resistance to poison, a clean strike from the sword could arguably create a single cut big enough for it to enter his system, and basilisk venom is lethal, unless you have magical healing powers, which I don't think is in his spell list.
How well do you do against one?
I mean look at Harry in Chamber of Secrets. He accidentally impales his arm on the Basilisk tooth and is now feeling the venom. He manages to wander over to the middle of the room and destroy the diary before plot intervenes to save him before he dies. That's a good minute or two where he isn't just dead.
Now compare Harry to the size of the dragon he fought in Goblet of fire. Now compare that to the dragons flying around Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker card.
The sheer difference in size would cause a massive difference in the effectiveness of the poison.
It's like putting a couple of drops of food coloring into a cup of water, and then putting the same amount of drops in a lake.
The poison will be to diluted to for it to have any lasting effects.
I just don't see spirits, the occult, and the supernatural being related to magic.
@Poring: When did Gandalf get Godric Gryffindor's sword?
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I would say Shatterstorm would be better spell for him to cast, also blows up Dumbleedore's wand, and Gandalf's sword and staff.
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There are people that call themselves psychics... and people that believe them... but I have never seen any tangible proof that psychics really exist.
Also the Sword of Gryfindor is indestructible. In fact it takes on the properties of anything that tries to destroy it (which is how it gains poison) so it stands to reason that an attempt to shatter it would cause it to gain the power to shatter any object it touches.
When Dumbledore lent it to him two rounds ago, once one or two WG supporters realized that it would be in better hands with Gandalf.
I suppose that would work, except, 1) as Fluffy_Bunny pointed out, the sword is indestructible, and 2) though not very well known, there are counterspells in the HP universe, though we never see them in the movies. In the books, Snape fought Harry Potter towards the end of the 6th one by countering Harry's spells with his mind, if I remember correctly.
Even the Anime Mewtwo was still insanely powerful, it's just that power creep over the several generations of Pokémon that have passed since then needed to step up the game by creating stronger and stronger opponents for Ash and company to face.
The same goes for magicians, priests, exorcists, etc. which only proves my point a bit further in that psychic powers are comparable to magic in many aspects.
How well do you do against one?
No no, Snape didn't use a counterspell, Snape was the CREATOR of the spell that Harry was using, plus, Harry didn't have enough hate toward Snape for the spell to go off. So technically, not countermagic, it was just Harry not fulfilling the casting Requirements.
Either way, Bolas would know that the sword is indestructible, the previous rounds would be public knowledge to everyone involved, and the knowledge about anything they use, public knowledge. (Except, Bolas is really good at keeping secrets, Altering perception, etc. He might use this to his advantage.)
Bolas can wage war with these two on two different planes, the Physical, AND the mental plane, at the same time. He can be fighting them physically, whilst withering away their mental defenses in preparation for his mind-magic. It's also logical to think that Bolas would be far more able to shatter mental defenses because, ya know, he's practiced mind-magic for eons, I highly doubt Dumbledore and Gandalf can weather this assault on their minds, sure, there are charms in the HP universe, but none quite as strong as what Bolas himself is capable. Plus, Mewtwo is still a factor here. What's stopping him from using telekinesis and stealing the Sword of Griffindor? Or using Psychic and using the terrain as a weapon?
I just don't see Wizard guide being able to hit them... Not when both members of Psychic Monsters can fly...
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Ah, apologies. It seems I was not clear. I was referring to the incident at the end of the 6th book, where...
Also, I think you're mixing things up a bit. The only incident, if my memory serves, where Harry didn't have enough hate to cast a spell on someone was on Bellatrix Lestrange, in the 4th book, and that was only because he was using righteous anger (the "good" kind) to fuel the Cruciatus Curse when it should have been malicious, sadistic anger in order to work. Technically, it still worked, but just wasn't as potent.
The point is, countermagic clearly does exist in the HP universe, we just never really see it used in the series. Also, the link provided shows how HP mages have a rather long list of ways of countering spells, though the HP lore never actually refers to it as such. I'll link to it again... here.
How well do you do against one?
It's been a problem with the planeswalkers through this whole tourny. One person will think a planeswalker can cast any spell in magic at will despite it making no sense (especially since many of these characters have books to go on and they never show that level of power).
The bounce comment is laughable... Why on Earth would a "bounce" return an item back to where it came from (ie Dumbledore's closet)? Heck why not just bounce the other team if it's that easy?
They way I would see it... in a game of magic each turn contains an attack and the creatures are able to fully heal between attacks... Seems to me that a turn lasts days if not weeks... That means it takes that long to gain each land in a game, and that long for a land to refresh it's mana.