Everyone seems to be forgetting that the Wizards can just start the fight invisible and sneak attack the other team. Using non-lethal magics like a paralysis spell would not only neutralize Aang but also be in character for our hero wizards.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the Wizards can just start the fight invisible and sneak attack the other team. Using non-lethal magics like a paralysis spell would not only neutralize Aang but also be in character for our hero wizards.
I have never, EVER seen Dumbledore OR Gandalf turn invisible...
Could you site your source for this argument?
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I have never, EVER seen Dumbledore OR Gandalf turn invisible...
Could you site your source for this argument?
I'll be honest, I couldn't see them while they were invisible either.
Dumbledore turned himself invisible in the first book, while Harry was looking into that Mirror thingie.
I think the Wizards win this. Thirty minutes of prep time and perfect information about their foes is a hell of an advantage to give to a demigod and a wizard.
Dumbledore can control his surroundings (though on a smaller scale) than the Avatar, and has that absurdly abusive at will teleport (plus a stunning spell that could KO Aan without putting him in "danger")
Captain planet *is* a magical contruct. Assuming he can't be dispelled (the power of heart, or whatever), he still has an easily abused weakness. Plus, Gandalf has magical control over fire, which makes up a quarter of Aang's power and a fifth of the Captain's.
I'll be honest, I couldn't see them while they were invisible either.
Dumbledore turned himself invisible in the first book, while Harry was looking into that Mirror thingie.
I think the Wizards win this. Thirty minutes of prep time and perfect information about their foes is a hell of an advantage to give to a demigod and a wizard.
Dumbledore can control his surroundings (though on a smaller scale) than the Avatar, and has that absurdly abusive at will teleport (plus a stunning spell that could KO Aan without putting him in "danger")
Captain planet *is* a magical contruct. Assuming he can't be dispelled (the power of heart, or whatever), he still has an easily abused weakness. Plus, Gandalf has magical control over fire, which makes up a quarter of Aang's power and a fifth of the Captain's.
Vote team Wizard Guide
You do know, right? That Aang could suffocate Gandalf's fire by Airbending the oxygen from it? Or, ya know, Waterbending to put it out... Or Earthbending to swallow Gandalf into the earth...
There's no way, NO WAY Wizards win over someone who can LITERALLY CONTROL THE BATTLEFIELD and use it as a weapon.
Literally, every plane that has any of the 4 elements is Aang's advantage...
And uhh, I've never seen Dumbledore fight while invisible, it must require some intense focus since he doesn't seem to be able to cast any spells while invisible... Plus, I'm sure Aang could sense the water inside of Dumbeldore's body and use that to track him. Remember, the body IS 96% water, and Aang controls water, he may not bloodbend, but i'm sure he could sense someone trying to sneak attack him... Or he and Captain Planet could just fly up into the sky and literally avoid getting hit by ANY of their spells and simply earthbend them for the win...
Airbending grants Aang the power of Flight as well... he's not going to just sit there and wait for someone to cast a spell on him, remember, Aang and CP get PERFECT knowledge on their opponents as well.
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So, if Gandalf isn't on Earth, his powers aren't restricted anymore, correct? Sorry, I'm a little late to the party, and I apologize if this question has already been answered.
Captin planet he's a hero going to bring them wizard's down to zero, Anng will help him stratagise they are fighting on the planets side!
Open up with Gail force winds to knock Dumbeldoor out then engage gandolf with fire! Throwing in ice and earth for additional offense/defense as needed. Gandolf puts up a noble fight showing true angelic passion however in the end no one can stand up the very elements themself.
Edit: also... Dumbledore has regular access to all kinds of candy items wrapped in plastic... He can bring in a handful of Chocolate frogs to unwrap and throw the wrappers on the ground to make CP sad.
Especially the simple, yet hilarious, final words: to make CP sad. Thank you Fluffy! In fact, good arguments all around with everyone keeping level heads.
Although I think I know the answer, I'll ask anyway:
Does Dumbledore have the Sword of Gryffindor and if so, is it embodied with the basilisk venom? My immediate thought is "no, he doesn't" because he doesn't routinely have it on him. However the sword "presents itself to any worthy Gryffindor," but I'll assume Poring's special magic prevents it from appearing...yes?
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Especially the simple, yet hilarious, final words: to make CP sad. Thank you Fluffy! In fact, good arguments all around with everyone keeping level heads.
Although I think I know the answer, I'll ask anyway:
Does Dumbledore have the Sword of Gryffindor and if so, is it embodied with the basilisk venom? My immediate thought is "no, he doesn't" because he doesn't routinely have it on him. However the sword "presents itself to any worthy Gryffindor," but I'll assume Poring's special magic prevents it from appearing...yes?
If I remember correctly it is actually stored in his chambers for the majority of the books. (from when Harry uses it to kill the basilisk until after he dies, so 3-4 years? [I am horrible at remembering exactly which book things happened in]). So I would say yes he has it and yes he has the venom enhanced version.
And uhh, I've never seen Dumbledore fight while invisible, it must require some intense focus since he doesn't seem to be able to cast any spells while invisible... Plus, I'm sure Aang could sense the water inside of Dumbeldore's body and use that to track him. Remember, the body IS 96% water, and Aang controls water, he may not bloodbend, but i'm sure he could sense someone trying to sneak attack him... Or he and Captain Planet could just fly up into the sky and literally avoid getting hit by ANY of their spells and simply earthbend them for the win...
Maybe because the story is not about Dumbledore? Just because it is not mentioned does not mean it is not possible. Also Wizards are capable of breaking the invisibility spell or detect life, so I imagine it's a lot less useful against other wizards.
Dumbledore can also fly... and apperate... and let Gandalf "fly".... also magic is mostly ranged so even if Gandalf is not flying he can use his staff telekinetic magic and make Aang come crashing to the ground.
With the vote tally being what it currently is, I hope no one minds if I focus on BYPC for this post, and who I feel is the most overlooked character in the battle, Avatar Aang.
This is a good question to which I don't think we'd find any definitive answers. It's like the hypothetical situation where we'd have a lightsaber come into contact with a non-indestructible substance that has never been introduced to before in-universe. The idea, I suppose, would be to interpret if the chi manipulation involved in moving the target's spirit would classify as the equivalent for removing "bending". While this might not work on Gandalf (being, you know, an angelic being), this could work on Dumbledore, since magic in the HP universe is a force hypothesized to be related to "blood" or "birth" (you're either born with it or not; it's not something you can learn, not even if you're a Squib), similar to how benders in the Avatar universe are born with their powers. Just my opinion though.
That's against the rules because Aang would not be the one fighting anymore it would be one of the previous avatars.
Well... it's a tad more complicated than that, I think.
The Avatar series is based on a lot of Eastern mythologies and religions. In fact, the word "Avatar" is was originally an idea in Hinduism that god could become manifested in a singular form. In the West, there's an idea that the soul is an individual unit that is unique to the person who possesses it... not so much in the East, where religions like Hinduism don't subscribe to that notion.
In the Hindu religions, there is a recurring theme about the "oneness of everything" (if you've seen or read "The Life of Pi", this concept was made relatively clear in a few scenes and pages), and this is also carried over in the Avatar lore. When Aang is learning how to enter the Avatar State at will with Guru Pathik, a character who is very obviously based on Indian culture and religion, Aang is tasked to open his chakras to become one with the universe and unlock the powers of all of his past lives.
Now, in that sense, it's not that Aang, Roku, Kyoshi and all the other past lives of Aang are distinct and separate entities (though that's usually how the general populace of each lifetime percieves them), but rather, the different aspects of the Avatar spirit (which in this case is the god becoming manifest) who are all interconnected and indivisible, even though we regard them as separate.
Thus, yes, one could make the case that if Aang were to have his memory wiped, he would "cease" to be Aang, but that doesn't stop him from being the Avatar Spirit, that is, the Spirit of the Planet. Aang's past lives are not a collection of hundreds of different random "souls" that just happen to be the Avatar, rather, Aang and all his incarnations since the creation of his universe are all the same Avatar Spirit manifested in different forms, in that they are exactly the same deity born over and over again. In other words, when Aang shifts into the Avatar State to tap into all his powers simultaneously, he's technically not a different person, at least, not from an Eastern religion perspective.
Okay, to try and make this simple, I'll use the closest analogy I can using a Western religion that I can assume most people are generally familiar with. In Christianity, there's the idea of a Holy Trinity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) who are all one God, but also happen to be a triune being. The three aspects are, therefore, distinct from one another, but at the same time, they are the same deity. Taking this simplification of that notion, and how Hinduism works, shows that same is true for the Avatar and all his past lives. Thus, Aang doesn't "cease to be himself" just because he enters the Avatar State; he manages to become one with all of himself, fully realizing his potential.
That said, I don't think the Avatar Spirit would "appoint" another Avatar in Aang's place if his memory gets wiped. Rather, because this would leave Aang incapable of defending himself, Aang would likely automatically shift into the Avatar State (the "continuous" version, where he's not in control of his powers), because that's what it's for: to protect the Avatar should the Avatar ever be rendered utterly powerless, which is what would happen if he lost all his memories and abilities from such a charm.
Sorry poring, my reasoning is that Dumbledore would be able to wipe Aangs memory and then there would be nothing stopping the two wizards from abusing CP's weakness.
He may be able to use word of power(I don't know its proper name I only know what the games calls it) like he did on the bridge of Khazadum, only better since this is Gandalf the White, to bust a hole in the rock shield. During his fight with the Balrog he also summoned lightning to enhance his sword, that could probably put a hole in the rock shield and harm Aang severely if he's in his water shield.
Also, Aang is, as Biefall pointed out, incredibly fast. Because of Aang's airbending and CP's flight, I feel they outspeed their opponents considerably for this battle, and would rather dodge than need to block an attack like that.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the Wizards can just start the fight invisible and sneak attack the other team. Using non-lethal magics like a paralysis spell would not only neutralize Aang but also be in character for our hero wizards.
On the invisibility argument, I realized (with the help of something Plaguefather mentioned; hope I spelled it right that time) that in the Avatar universe, highly skilled benders are capable of detecting if any of their elements are present, like Toph, whose detection abilities were so good that she invented metalbending by detecting the impure earth in metal objects, or Hama, who used the insight that bodies have water in them to invent bloodbending. Even if Albus and Gandalf were to turn invisible, the water in their bodies should make them detectable to Aang (and even CP; Aang just needs to tell him what to do).
So, if Gandalf isn't on Earth, his powers aren't restricted anymore, correct? Sorry, I'm a little late to the party, and I apologize if this question has already been answered.
Nope, Gandalf isn't on Middle Earth, but he's exactly as powerful as he would be as though he were fighting on it. It is this exact same ruling that prevents CP and Aang from auto-losing for fighting away from their home planets, and also ensures that characters with universe-specific powers (like Yoda's use of the Force) would be able to fight as they normally would.
Although I think I know the answer, I'll ask anyway:
Does Dumbledore have the Sword of Gryffindor and if so, is it embodied with the basilisk venom? My immediate thought is "no, he doesn't" because he doesn't routinely have it on him. However the sword "presents itself to any worthy Gryffindor," but I'll assume Poring's special magic prevents it from appearing...yes?
I agree with Fluffy_Bunny, I would say that Dumbledore does have routine access to the Sword of Gryffindor by virtue of it being in his office for his time in the books. I don't see why he'd use it though; he's not a swordfighter... unless you mean he'll give it to Gandalf? Because that's epic.
Dumbledore can also fly... and apperate... and let Gandalf "fly".... also magic is mostly ranged so even if Gandalf is not flying he can use his staff telekinetic magic and make Aang come crashing to the ground.
Isn't unsupported flight an invention of Lord Voldemort? I was under the assumption that only he and Snape could fly unaided because of Professor McGonagall's statement in the book about how Snape learned that from him. Dumbledore's instances of flight in the books have always been in the form of broomsticks (he can lend one to Gandalf, though, sure). In fact, in Book 1 he even mentions that he nearly crashed into an owl midflight, if I remember correctly.
In the movies though, they seemed to merge Apparition with unaided flight, so one could argue that alright, wizards can fly if they know how to apparate, but still, I don't think he could teach that to the otherwise goundbound Gandalf in thirty minutes. If the two of them decide to fly up and try to take down CP and Aang, the wiser option would be to double team Dumbledore and let Gandalf fall of his broom by roasting it mid flight... that's even assuming Gandalf manages to control it; the books and movies show that it's not easy to learn how to ride a broomstick unless you are naturally talented, like Harry himself.
Still, assuming that Gandalf can cast spells in midflight without having prior practice is quite something, considering even trained wizards have trouble with aerial combat.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I'm voting for Team BYPC.
Even if Captain Planet were to be weakened,Aang could heal him with any of the elements.
Also if Aang were to lose his memory, it wouldn't stop him from being the Avatar. As soon as his life is in danger he would still take Avatar mode even if he doesn't know why. He would still have the wisdom of the previous Avatars as well.
I agree that giving the wizards prep-time give them the upper hand, but I guess the memory loss spell would work better against Captain Planet instead of Aang.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I vote for team Wizard Guide. Of the four teams that are left this is the only one that doesn't surprise me. When this thing first started I saw around 6 to 8 teams that I figured would make up the final four, the other 3 weren't on my list.
Anyway, I think magic trumps elemental type stuff (and honestly I probably should have voted for the Wizads in the last round but they won anyway so it doesn't matter).
I do have to concur that there is nothing I can find that says that Captain Planet is magical in nature. The closest thing I could argue is that the element of "Heart" is not necessarily a natural element and thus has something a bit more "mystical" in it's properties.
But at that point I am merely stretching facts in the name of objectivity. It is clear to me that Team Wizard Guide will win this contest. So consider my vote there!
Some bullet points to consider, as I don't believe these arguments are addressed adequately to change my mind on the subject.
1) Dumbledore can turn invisible at will, and loan Gandalf the Invisibility Cloak if he needs it. Part of the process of being invisible includes the trait of intangibility. If you are to be considered intangible, that means you do not have any physical properties to be detected. Therefore I do not believe that the water in their blood stream is detectable while invisible. However, I would accept that at least an Invisiblity cloaked Gandalf may be detected, but he himself is not intangible, he is just made that way by a magical construct, who's materials could be detected.
2) Stunning Aang or wiping his memory will not trigger an Avatar state in my mind, as his life is not "in danger" simply by being incapacitated. Unless of course you're arguing that Aang triggers Avatar state everytime he trips over a rock and is thus temporarily incapacitated with knee pain, but then I would have to argue that we're not talking so much about a Zen Master of the Elements and are more in line with arguing over an overpowered schizophrenic.
Also, allowing a previous Avatar to take over his consciousness to continue the fight I would argue would fall under the ruling that prevented Abaddon the Despoiler from being rescued by the 4 Chaos Gods if he should ever die as they fill him with their consciousness. In my mind, this is the same concept, and should not be allowed. Aang must be able to win on his own merits, not on the abilities of his ancestors.
3) Captain Planet has no inherent resistance to Magic, as this kind of ability has not been featured in any media involving Captain Planet that I can cite. Therefore any arguments that state that he is inherently immune to magical effects I will have to discard as fallacious, as there is no proof that this is the case. If the man can't even resist man made sludge, how can I believe that he can resist fantastical abilities beyond man's reach?
4) Dumbledore can craft magical spells, potions and herbalisms with enough time, and thus if he needed some form of pollution to defeat Captain Planet, his invisibility would allow him the time necessary to develop a counter to Captain Planet if he couldn't do it in the 30 minute prep time.
5) It's been established that Captain Planet cannot detect invisible beings, therefore he would not be able to find the two wizards. Here again we expect to hear an argument that states Aang would just go into Avatar Mode to blast the landscape and reveal their locations, but once again you are arguing outside of Aang's character. Assuming he will just go into Avatar State all willy nilly just because he is at a disadvantage in battle. Which I argue is not in his character, you may feel free to disagree!
With all of these facts in mind, it is clear to me that Wizard Guide will be going to the finals!
There's really not a lot Aang and Planet can do in the 30 minute prep time that gives them an advantage. While Dumbledore has decades upon decades of experience with countless spells, artifacts and enchantments. There's gotta be something there that he can do with pollution and/or stunning effects to prevent Aang from just wiping away all polluting effects.
Also, if the Wizards were to shatter the glass around them and use the gale force winds to create a sort of noisy maelstrom, wouldn't that prevent Aang from being able to concentrate on any bending that wasn't already second nature to him?
All in all, I think the ingenuity the Wizards have gives them a much better edge in strategy and planning. If we were talking about a straight up slug fest, duh, BYPC wins. But we all know the Wizards are never going to let that happen.
If you are to be considered intangible, that means you do not have any physical properties to be detected. Therefore I do not believe that the water in their blood stream is detectable while invisible. However, I would accept that at least an Invisiblity cloaked Gandalf may be detected, but he himself is not intangible, he is just made that way by a magical construct, who's materials could be detected.
As I've stated, dear citizen! I am giving Aang the benefit of the doubt that he may be able to detect the materials from which the Invisibility Cloak is made out of, but even that is a bit of a logical stretch on my part as there's no proof that Aang has dealt with anything of a magical nature either or whether the Invisibility Cloak has a built in charm that would make it immune to detection in the first place.
Here is the problem I am having. Admittedly, it may be because I am a sorcerer supreme myself, so my bias towards magical characters may be shining through a bit. But hear me out.
Aang and Captain Planet are both great heroes who use the natural elements of the earth and sun to gain their fantastical abilities. However, in both of their universes these abilities are explained not as magic, but as natural inherent abilities that anyone can harness so long as you are pure of heart and dedicated to training and love of the earth. (Or in Captain's world, possessing a ring of Gaea).
While Gandalf and Dumbledore, they use magic. Specifically, magic. There is no pseudo scientific or philosophical explanations as to why some people can use magic and some can't, or any sort of connection to the earth of the elements or anything other than the mind and an inherent magical ability.
Therefore, I cannot be led to believe that Aang and Captain Planet are even capable of recognizing how to deal with that type of potential. I don't believe Aang could energy bend away their magic, as they are not connected to any sort of source that can be cut off from. For them, magic is as inherent to them as being of a certain sexual orientation (ahem, coughAlbuscoughcough).
I cannot believe they are resistant to any of Dumbledore or Gandalfs spells as they are not from any specific source material that is reliant on Fire, Earth, Water or Air. Anything the Wizards do are out of Team By Your Powers Combined ahem...element.
Therefore, my vote is solidly in their favor.
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"But Faith is my Sword. Truth my Shield. Knowledge my Armor."
As I've stated, dear citizen! I am giving Aang the benefit of the doubt that he may be able to detect the materials from which the Invisibility Cloak is made out of, but even that is a bit of a logical stretch on my part as there's no proof that Aang has dealt with anything of a magical nature either or whether the Invisibility Cloak has a built in charm that would make it immune to detection in the first place.
Here is the problem I am having. Admittedly, it may be because I am a sorcerer supreme myself, so my bias towards magical characters may be shining through a bit. But hear me out.
Aang and Captain Planet are both great heroes who use the natural elements of the earth and sun to gain their fantastical abilities. However, in both of their universes these abilities are explained not as magic, but as natural inherent abilities that anyone can harness so long as you are pure of heart and dedicated to training and love of the earth. (Or in Captain's world, possessing a ring of Gaea).
While Gandalf and Dumbledore, they use magic. Specifically, magic. There is no pseudo scientific or philosophical explanations as to why some people can use magic and some can't, or any sort of connection to the earth of the elements or anything other than the mind and an inherent magical ability.
Therefore, I cannot be led to believe that Aang and Captain Planet are even capable of recognizing how to deal with that type of potential. I don't believe Aang could energy bend away their magic, as they are not connected to any sort of source that can be cut off from. For them, magic is as inherent to them as being of a certain sexual orientation (ahem, coughAlbuscoughcough).
I cannot believe they are resistant to any of Dumbledore or Gandalfs spells as they are not from any specific source material that is reliant on Fire, Earth, Water or Air. Anything the Wizards do are out of Team By Your Powers Combined ahem...element.
Therefore, my vote is solidly in their favor.
He was talking about the blood running through their veins, Aang can lock on to that as a marker and invisibility is worthless at that point.
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He was talking about the blood running through their veins, Aang can lock on to that as a marker and invisibility is worthless at that point.
And we are still talking about the same thing, dear citizen. The water within a person I am talking about is the same thing as the water within someon's blood stream. It is non detectable if your person is completely intangible, as in, you are not detectable or able to be sensed. If you are invisible you are completely invisible, your blood is simply not there.
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"But Faith is my Sword. Truth my Shield. Knowledge my Armor."
I agree with Fluffy_Bunny, I would say that Dumbledore does have routine access to the Sword of Gryffindor by virtue of it being in his office for his time in the books. I don't see why he'd use it though; he's not a swordfighter... unless you mean he'll give it to Gandalf? Because that's epic.
That was exactly what I was hinting at. Dumbledore gives the Sword of Gryffindor to Gandalf during prep-time. Once the battle begins, the wizards just need to immobilize or otherwise get close enough to Captain Planet for a strike. Now I'm not saying it needs to be an immediate deathblow (stomach, heart, beheading, etc.), but rather, just enough to puncture/penetrate his skin; even a minor cut on his leg will do. In my opinion, that will be enough for the basilisk venom to enter the bloodstream and effectively poison CP from within. Rather dastardly, come to think of it...
Then it becomes a two vs. one, which I believe the wizards will win.
Of course, its a matter of getting to Cpt. Planet fairly quickly because I know he and Aang won't be sitting on their hands. But with either a broom, invisibility, apparating, other spells (Oppugno, the "paralyzing one" (something Totalus), etc., I think they'll achieve their goal.
With that basic scenario in mind, as well as some of the other arguments made thus far... my vote goes toward Team Wizard Guide.
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(about the English language) It's kinda like a raft that was cobbled together from parts of three different boats and since then has been kept barely afloat with crude repairs every time a leak appeared.
Captain Planets Skin is as impervious as Rock and could not be punctured by sword, not that it matters in this popularity contest.
The sword of gryffendor was able to destroy He who shall not be named's horcruxes. I would argue that it would probably be able to destroy the LotR ring of power. It's an incredibly powerful magically enhanced weapon. It does not matter how "hard" CPs skin is. All the wizards have to do is use a simple paralysis spell on CP and then go poke him.
The invisibility cloak was so powerful it could make the wearer undetectable by Death himself.
As far as dust storms go... that's nice but it's not going to work very well when an invisible wizard is teleporting himself all around Aang and CP.
Or! There is a very simple duplication spell that can be placed on items so they duplicate every time they are touched and last for a couple hours. I wonder how CP would feel about millions of candy wrappers!!!!!
Why would Dumbledore have the cloak of invisibility? It belongs to Harry.
"James Potter owned an invisibility cloak (actually one of the fabled Deathly Hallows) that he and his friends often used during their days at Hogwarts to assist them in their mischief. Albus Dumbledore had James's cloak at the time of the latter's death, having wished to inspect it further. He kept the cloak in his possession until Harry began school at Hogwarts in 1991." - http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Invisibility_cloak
That would mean Dumbledore had it for years before Harry came to school. (kind of crazy because that would also mean he had 2 of the three pieces of the deathly hallows).
Ah but if he was from the time line where he had access to the cloak than he would NOT be from the time line where he had access to the sword! pick one or the other!
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I have never, EVER seen Dumbledore OR Gandalf turn invisible...
Could you site your source for this argument?
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I'll be honest, I couldn't see them while they were invisible either.
Dumbledore turned himself invisible in the first book, while Harry was looking into that Mirror thingie.
I think the Wizards win this. Thirty minutes of prep time and perfect information about their foes is a hell of an advantage to give to a demigod and a wizard.
Dumbledore can control his surroundings (though on a smaller scale) than the Avatar, and has that absurdly abusive at will teleport (plus a stunning spell that could KO Aan without putting him in "danger")
Captain planet *is* a magical contruct. Assuming he can't be dispelled (the power of heart, or whatever), he still has an easily abused weakness. Plus, Gandalf has magical control over fire, which makes up a quarter of Aang's power and a fifth of the Captain's.
Vote team Wizard Guide
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Invisibility_Spell
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Disillusionment_Charm
Dumbledore also tells Harry in the books that he can turn invisible without the aid of the cloak.
You do know, right? That Aang could suffocate Gandalf's fire by Airbending the oxygen from it? Or, ya know, Waterbending to put it out... Or Earthbending to swallow Gandalf into the earth...
There's no way, NO WAY Wizards win over someone who can LITERALLY CONTROL THE BATTLEFIELD and use it as a weapon.
Literally, every plane that has any of the 4 elements is Aang's advantage...
And uhh, I've never seen Dumbledore fight while invisible, it must require some intense focus since he doesn't seem to be able to cast any spells while invisible... Plus, I'm sure Aang could sense the water inside of Dumbeldore's body and use that to track him. Remember, the body IS 96% water, and Aang controls water, he may not bloodbend, but i'm sure he could sense someone trying to sneak attack him... Or he and Captain Planet could just fly up into the sky and literally avoid getting hit by ANY of their spells and simply earthbend them for the win...
Airbending grants Aang the power of Flight as well... he's not going to just sit there and wait for someone to cast a spell on him, remember, Aang and CP get PERFECT knowledge on their opponents as well.
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Open up with Gail force winds to knock Dumbeldoor out then engage gandolf with fire! Throwing in ice and earth for additional offense/defense as needed. Gandolf puts up a noble fight showing true angelic passion however in the end no one can stand up the very elements themself.
My vote is for BY YOUR POWERS COMBINE!
Especially the simple, yet hilarious, final words: to make CP sad. Thank you Fluffy! In fact, good arguments all around with everyone keeping level heads.
Although I think I know the answer, I'll ask anyway:
Does Dumbledore have the Sword of Gryffindor and if so, is it embodied with the basilisk venom? My immediate thought is "no, he doesn't" because he doesn't routinely have it on him. However the sword "presents itself to any worthy Gryffindor," but I'll assume Poring's special magic prevents it from appearing...yes?
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If I remember correctly it is actually stored in his chambers for the majority of the books. (from when Harry uses it to kill the basilisk until after he dies, so 3-4 years? [I am horrible at remembering exactly which book things happened in]). So I would say yes he has it and yes he has the venom enhanced version.
Maybe because the story is not about Dumbledore? Just because it is not mentioned does not mean it is not possible. Also Wizards are capable of breaking the invisibility spell or detect life, so I imagine it's a lot less useful against other wizards.
Dumbledore can also fly... and apperate... and let Gandalf "fly".... also magic is mostly ranged so even if Gandalf is not flying he can use his staff telekinetic magic and make Aang come crashing to the ground.
This is a good question to which I don't think we'd find any definitive answers. It's like the hypothetical situation where we'd have a lightsaber come into contact with a non-indestructible substance that has never been introduced to before in-universe. The idea, I suppose, would be to interpret if the chi manipulation involved in moving the target's spirit would classify as the equivalent for removing "bending". While this might not work on Gandalf (being, you know, an angelic being), this could work on Dumbledore, since magic in the HP universe is a force hypothesized to be related to "blood" or "birth" (you're either born with it or not; it's not something you can learn, not even if you're a Squib), similar to how benders in the Avatar universe are born with their powers. Just my opinion though.
Well... it's a tad more complicated than that, I think.
In the Hindu religions, there is a recurring theme about the "oneness of everything" (if you've seen or read "The Life of Pi", this concept was made relatively clear in a few scenes and pages), and this is also carried over in the Avatar lore. When Aang is learning how to enter the Avatar State at will with Guru Pathik, a character who is very obviously based on Indian culture and religion, Aang is tasked to open his chakras to become one with the universe and unlock the powers of all of his past lives.
Now, in that sense, it's not that Aang, Roku, Kyoshi and all the other past lives of Aang are distinct and separate entities (though that's usually how the general populace of each lifetime percieves them), but rather, the different aspects of the Avatar spirit (which in this case is the god becoming manifest) who are all interconnected and indivisible, even though we regard them as separate.
Thus, yes, one could make the case that if Aang were to have his memory wiped, he would "cease" to be Aang, but that doesn't stop him from being the Avatar Spirit, that is, the Spirit of the Planet. Aang's past lives are not a collection of hundreds of different random "souls" that just happen to be the Avatar, rather, Aang and all his incarnations since the creation of his universe are all the same Avatar Spirit manifested in different forms, in that they are exactly the same deity born over and over again. In other words, when Aang shifts into the Avatar State to tap into all his powers simultaneously, he's technically not a different person, at least, not from an Eastern religion perspective.
Okay, to try and make this simple, I'll use the closest analogy I can using a Western religion that I can assume most people are generally familiar with. In Christianity, there's the idea of a Holy Trinity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) who are all one God, but also happen to be a triune being. The three aspects are, therefore, distinct from one another, but at the same time, they are the same deity. Taking this simplification of that notion, and how Hinduism works, shows that same is true for the Avatar and all his past lives. Thus, Aang doesn't "cease to be himself" just because he enters the Avatar State; he manages to become one with all of himself, fully realizing his potential.
That said, I don't think the Avatar Spirit would "appoint" another Avatar in Aang's place if his memory gets wiped. Rather, because this would leave Aang incapable of defending himself, Aang would likely automatically shift into the Avatar State (the "continuous" version, where he's not in control of his powers), because that's what it's for: to protect the Avatar should the Avatar ever be rendered utterly powerless, which is what would happen if he lost all his memories and abilities from such a charm.
Noted, thank you for giving your reason.
Aang can also use all four elements as a shield simultaneously.
Also, Aang is, as Biefall pointed out, incredibly fast. Because of Aang's airbending and CP's flight, I feel they outspeed their opponents considerably for this battle, and would rather dodge than need to block an attack like that.
On the invisibility argument, I realized (with the help of something Plaguefather mentioned; hope I spelled it right that time) that in the Avatar universe, highly skilled benders are capable of detecting if any of their elements are present, like Toph, whose detection abilities were so good that she invented metalbending by detecting the impure earth in metal objects, or Hama, who used the insight that bodies have water in them to invent bloodbending. Even if Albus and Gandalf were to turn invisible, the water in their bodies should make them detectable to Aang (and even CP; Aang just needs to tell him what to do).
Nope, Gandalf isn't on Middle Earth, but he's exactly as powerful as he would be as though he were fighting on it. It is this exact same ruling that prevents CP and Aang from auto-losing for fighting away from their home planets, and also ensures that characters with universe-specific powers (like Yoda's use of the Force) would be able to fight as they normally would.
I agree with Fluffy_Bunny, I would say that Dumbledore does have routine access to the Sword of Gryffindor by virtue of it being in his office for his time in the books. I don't see why he'd use it though; he's not a swordfighter... unless you mean he'll give it to Gandalf? Because that's epic.
Isn't unsupported flight an invention of Lord Voldemort? I was under the assumption that only he and Snape could fly unaided because of Professor McGonagall's statement in the book about how Snape learned that from him. Dumbledore's instances of flight in the books have always been in the form of broomsticks (he can lend one to Gandalf, though, sure). In fact, in Book 1 he even mentions that he nearly crashed into an owl midflight, if I remember correctly.
In the movies though, they seemed to merge Apparition with unaided flight, so one could argue that alright, wizards can fly if they know how to apparate, but still, I don't think he could teach that to the otherwise goundbound Gandalf in thirty minutes. If the two of them decide to fly up and try to take down CP and Aang, the wiser option would be to double team Dumbledore and let Gandalf fall of his broom by roasting it mid flight... that's even assuming Gandalf manages to control it; the books and movies show that it's not easy to learn how to ride a broomstick unless you are naturally talented, like Harry himself.
Still, assuming that Gandalf can cast spells in midflight without having prior practice is quite something, considering even trained wizards have trouble with aerial combat.
How well do you do against one?
Even if Captain Planet were to be weakened,Aang could heal him with any of the elements.
Also if Aang were to lose his memory, it wouldn't stop him from being the Avatar. As soon as his life is in danger he would still take Avatar mode even if he doesn't know why. He would still have the wisdom of the previous Avatars as well.
Thanks for all the good arguments guys!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
Poll Votes:
BYPC - 11
WG - 14
Post Votes:
BYPC - 7
WG - 4
Total Votes:
BYPC - 18
WG - 18
Breakdown:
Belgareth - BYPC
Iso - BYPC
Plaguefather - BYPC
Biefall - BYPC
Fluffy_Bunny - WG
Lechuza - ???
Doctor Strange - ???
Jax13x - WG
Warp778 - WG
Froze_Over - BYPC
narah - WG
Ophidian_Eye - ???
draftguy2 - BYPC
qtiplord - ???
Wikidclowne - BYPC
Notes:
To concur with Biefall; great arguments, everyone!
That said, the votes are tied so far. Dead even.
Still a close match, and anyone's game!
How well do you do against one?
Anyway, I think magic trumps elemental type stuff (and honestly I probably should have voted for the Wizads in the last round but they won anyway so it doesn't matter).
But at that point I am merely stretching facts in the name of objectivity. It is clear to me that Team Wizard Guide will win this contest. So consider my vote there!
Some bullet points to consider, as I don't believe these arguments are addressed adequately to change my mind on the subject.
1) Dumbledore can turn invisible at will, and loan Gandalf the Invisibility Cloak if he needs it. Part of the process of being invisible includes the trait of intangibility. If you are to be considered intangible, that means you do not have any physical properties to be detected. Therefore I do not believe that the water in their blood stream is detectable while invisible. However, I would accept that at least an Invisiblity cloaked Gandalf may be detected, but he himself is not intangible, he is just made that way by a magical construct, who's materials could be detected.
2) Stunning Aang or wiping his memory will not trigger an Avatar state in my mind, as his life is not "in danger" simply by being incapacitated. Unless of course you're arguing that Aang triggers Avatar state everytime he trips over a rock and is thus temporarily incapacitated with knee pain, but then I would have to argue that we're not talking so much about a Zen Master of the Elements and are more in line with arguing over an overpowered schizophrenic.
Also, allowing a previous Avatar to take over his consciousness to continue the fight I would argue would fall under the ruling that prevented Abaddon the Despoiler from being rescued by the 4 Chaos Gods if he should ever die as they fill him with their consciousness. In my mind, this is the same concept, and should not be allowed. Aang must be able to win on his own merits, not on the abilities of his ancestors.
3) Captain Planet has no inherent resistance to Magic, as this kind of ability has not been featured in any media involving Captain Planet that I can cite. Therefore any arguments that state that he is inherently immune to magical effects I will have to discard as fallacious, as there is no proof that this is the case. If the man can't even resist man made sludge, how can I believe that he can resist fantastical abilities beyond man's reach?
4) Dumbledore can craft magical spells, potions and herbalisms with enough time, and thus if he needed some form of pollution to defeat Captain Planet, his invisibility would allow him the time necessary to develop a counter to Captain Planet if he couldn't do it in the 30 minute prep time.
5) It's been established that Captain Planet cannot detect invisible beings, therefore he would not be able to find the two wizards. Here again we expect to hear an argument that states Aang would just go into Avatar Mode to blast the landscape and reveal their locations, but once again you are arguing outside of Aang's character. Assuming he will just go into Avatar State all willy nilly just because he is at a disadvantage in battle. Which I argue is not in his character, you may feel free to disagree!
With all of these facts in mind, it is clear to me that Wizard Guide will be going to the finals!
-Myself.
There's really not a lot Aang and Planet can do in the 30 minute prep time that gives them an advantage. While Dumbledore has decades upon decades of experience with countless spells, artifacts and enchantments. There's gotta be something there that he can do with pollution and/or stunning effects to prevent Aang from just wiping away all polluting effects.
Also, if the Wizards were to shatter the glass around them and use the gale force winds to create a sort of noisy maelstrom, wouldn't that prevent Aang from being able to concentrate on any bending that wasn't already second nature to him?
All in all, I think the ingenuity the Wizards have gives them a much better edge in strategy and planning. If we were talking about a straight up slug fest, duh, BYPC wins. But we all know the Wizards are never going to let that happen.
As I've stated, dear citizen! I am giving Aang the benefit of the doubt that he may be able to detect the materials from which the Invisibility Cloak is made out of, but even that is a bit of a logical stretch on my part as there's no proof that Aang has dealt with anything of a magical nature either or whether the Invisibility Cloak has a built in charm that would make it immune to detection in the first place.
Here is the problem I am having. Admittedly, it may be because I am a sorcerer supreme myself, so my bias towards magical characters may be shining through a bit. But hear me out.
Aang and Captain Planet are both great heroes who use the natural elements of the earth and sun to gain their fantastical abilities. However, in both of their universes these abilities are explained not as magic, but as natural inherent abilities that anyone can harness so long as you are pure of heart and dedicated to training and love of the earth. (Or in Captain's world, possessing a ring of Gaea).
While Gandalf and Dumbledore, they use magic. Specifically, magic. There is no pseudo scientific or philosophical explanations as to why some people can use magic and some can't, or any sort of connection to the earth of the elements or anything other than the mind and an inherent magical ability.
Therefore, I cannot be led to believe that Aang and Captain Planet are even capable of recognizing how to deal with that type of potential. I don't believe Aang could energy bend away their magic, as they are not connected to any sort of source that can be cut off from. For them, magic is as inherent to them as being of a certain sexual orientation (ahem, coughAlbuscoughcough).
I cannot believe they are resistant to any of Dumbledore or Gandalfs spells as they are not from any specific source material that is reliant on Fire, Earth, Water or Air. Anything the Wizards do are out of Team By Your Powers Combined ahem...element.
Therefore, my vote is solidly in their favor.
-Myself.
He was talking about the blood running through their veins, Aang can lock on to that as a marker and invisibility is worthless at that point.
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And we are still talking about the same thing, dear citizen. The water within a person I am talking about is the same thing as the water within someon's blood stream. It is non detectable if your person is completely intangible, as in, you are not detectable or able to be sensed. If you are invisible you are completely invisible, your blood is simply not there.
-Myself.
That was exactly what I was hinting at. Dumbledore gives the Sword of Gryffindor to Gandalf during prep-time. Once the battle begins, the wizards just need to immobilize or otherwise get close enough to Captain Planet for a strike. Now I'm not saying it needs to be an immediate deathblow (stomach, heart, beheading, etc.), but rather, just enough to puncture/penetrate his skin; even a minor cut on his leg will do. In my opinion, that will be enough for the basilisk venom to enter the bloodstream and effectively poison CP from within. Rather dastardly, come to think of it...
Then it becomes a two vs. one, which I believe the wizards will win.
Of course, its a matter of getting to Cpt. Planet fairly quickly because I know he and Aang won't be sitting on their hands. But with either a broom, invisibility, apparating, other spells (Oppugno, the "paralyzing one" (something Totalus), etc., I think they'll achieve their goal.
With that basic scenario in mind, as well as some of the other arguments made thus far... my vote goes toward Team Wizard Guide.
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The sword of gryffendor was able to destroy He who shall not be named's horcruxes. I would argue that it would probably be able to destroy the LotR ring of power. It's an incredibly powerful magically enhanced weapon. It does not matter how "hard" CPs skin is. All the wizards have to do is use a simple paralysis spell on CP and then go poke him.
The invisibility cloak was so powerful it could make the wearer undetectable by Death himself.
As far as dust storms go... that's nice but it's not going to work very well when an invisible wizard is teleporting himself all around Aang and CP.
Or! There is a very simple duplication spell that can be placed on items so they duplicate every time they are touched and last for a couple hours. I wonder how CP would feel about millions of candy wrappers!!!!!
"James Potter owned an invisibility cloak (actually one of the fabled Deathly Hallows) that he and his friends often used during their days at Hogwarts to assist them in their mischief. Albus Dumbledore had James's cloak at the time of the latter's death, having wished to inspect it further. He kept the cloak in his possession until Harry began school at Hogwarts in 1991." - http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Invisibility_cloak
That would mean Dumbledore had it for years before Harry came to school. (kind of crazy because that would also mean he had 2 of the three pieces of the deathly hallows).