I like the Arrest/Oust argument for Gideon but come on... Gideon is not an almighty mage and we all agreed that it needs A LOT of concentration to cast a successful spell. Gideon wouldnt have the time to charge his ultimate while casting Oust/Arrest/Indestructibility, fighting Yoda, playing chess and painting the landscape at the same time.
Captain is a human, super human but human after all. The force even used by a watered down Yoda Kirby would be more than enough to crush him.
I think Captain America is the weak link here. I love Cap, he's my favorite super-hero, but beyond the shield, his super human physique and all that comes with that (super human speed, agility, strength, etc), and his above average regeneration, his greatest super-power is the fact that he is an idea. Cap has never been the super-est in terms of powers; he's always been the moral compass that guides the stronger super-people to fight for truth and justice. I don't think he is that useful in a tandem duel.
I just can't envision a scenario where Yoda has trouble defeating either member of team JFA and then has the advantage of having Kirby help him defeat the other. That being said, I'm holding back on my forum vote so I can see more knowledgeable arguments.
Whenever I envision Gideon in battle, that video comes to mind (it was one of the first bits of information I ever got on the Planeswalker) and apparently he's quite the superpower. We see him singlehandedly take on armies of soldiers and wipe out giant hydras using spells similar to the aforementioned Planar Cleansing. Not saying that he can actually do it in this battle, since, as many pointed out, casting that kind of spell takes time, effort and concentration, but still, it's a provocative image to see Gideon light up and "explode" to leave him alone on the battlefield.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
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Question: How do Kirby's innards work? Is it like a pocket dimension?
It's magical, but I don't think it's a 'pocket dimension'. Those who are sucked inside are still physically inside Kirby (although we may have a bit of a Tardis situation) unless Kirby absorbs them and takes their power for his own. It seems that when Kirby inhales something, he converts it into pop-star energy which he can spit back out or absorb. That energy can also be knocked out of him, but can be recovered before it fades. Kirby can sometimes also choose to release the energy back into a living creature as an ally, but that's only in one or two games with co-op, and probably shouldn't be taken as canon.
How does he inhale things? All signs point to him being an elastic being, like Mr. Fantastic, so being able to stretch his lungs or whatever he uses to vacuum makes a kind of sense. He basically takes on and stores or releases ballast, which is also kind of how he flies.
It's kind of like asking 'How is Sonic so fast', but the answer is 'Because magic rings'. Don't overthink his powers, he is whimsically magical so his powers are really only surface-deep.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
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2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Whenever I envision Gideon in battle, that video comes to mind (it was one of the first bits of information I ever got on the Planeswalker) and apparently he's quite the superpower. We see him singlehandedly take on armies of soldiers and wipe out giant hydras using spells similar to the aforementioned Planar Cleansing. Not saying that he can actually do it in this battle, since, as many pointed out, casting that kind of spell takes time, effort and concentration, but still, it's a provocative image to see Gideon light up and "explode" to leave him alone on the battlefield.
This is exactly how I'd imagine Gideon casting spells, I mean, summoning divine lightning from above to incinerate opponents miles away whilst fighting in melee, yeah, Yoda and Kirby are going down...
Plus, I'd imagine The Planeswalker Spark would protect Gideon from Kirby's innards and Yoda's force powers... The force isn't magical, it's metaphysical, which we know the Spark protects from, see - Phyrexian Oil and Planeswalker Spark. The Spark protected the planeswalker from the corrupting features of the oil. Hence why when captured, Venser wasn't turned. and while the other Vulshok fell to corruption, Koth remained untouched.
This fight isn't as one sided as some would like to believe...
Yoda hasn't really fought against magic before, thus he'd have to protection from a spell like Oust, or Celestial Flare. Plus, we can also infer Gideon's whip has the ability to tap things, see- Gideon's Lawkeeper. Thusly tapping them and getting to use his first cards -2 ability, Destroy target Tapped Creature.
Gideon's Martial Prowess is also nothing to sneeze at. Personally leading the campaign to take back the ninth disctrict on Ravnica, becoming directly involved in the action himself. He learned some powerful moves from Aurelia's legion.
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Notes:
On Kirby's stomach... the only game I've played which (to my knowledge) allows us to actually see what's in there is Kirby: Squeak Squad, and it acts like a giant room where he can keep several items at once (in that game, five maximum). Aside from that though, I don't think there's ever been a canonical explanation for what happens inside that mouth of his.
Though the votes seem distant for now, the match is still young, and it's times like these, when all hope is stacked against them, that Captain America and Gideon usually manage to pull a comeback in whatever media they are in... and the past three matches. Seriously, if I remember correctly, every match they've been in so far in the tournament has literally been a comeback victory. Will their winning streak end here at the tip of a lightsaber and a black hole? You decide!
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
The reason I was asking is because if he absorbs someone who can cut him open, well.
Kirby is immune to cutting. Even enemies with giant swords can't hurt him, nor can anyone escape from his maw once Kirby swallows them (although there are enemies that can resist being swallowed).
Otherwise Kirby could never get his 'Link' powers
I am, of course, ignoring Smash Bros. on this one. Gameplay requires people be able to break free in that game.
Plus, I'd imagine The Planeswalker Spark would protect Gideon from Kirby's innards and Yoda's force powers... The force isn't magical, it's metaphysical, which we know the Spark protects from, see - Phyrexian Oil and Planeswalker Spark. The Spark protected the planeswalker from the corrupting features of the oil. Hence why when captured, Venser wasn't turned. and while the other Vulshok fell to corruption, Koth remained untouched.
Anyway, despite inventing a large portion of your post, you're right that this fight is not one-sided. Gideon and Yoda are on a pretty even playing field here, with Yoda being the stronger melee fighter and Gideon relying on magic to win. It really comes down to whether you believe Gideon could pull off casting a spell while Yoda and Jedi Kirby are throwing him around. Even if he does, would Arrest hold a Jedi master for long? It's tough to say. One thing I can tell you is that Gideon's magical ability is not on the same level as the other planeswalkers. He's more of a fighter than a mage.
By the way, I'm pretty much assuming Captain America gets sucked up by Kirby within the first few seconds and stays there for the remainder of the match.
Anyway, despite inventing a large portion of your post, you're right that this fight is not one-sided. Gideon and Yoda are on a pretty even playing field here, with Yoda being the stronger melee fighter and Gideon relying on magic to win. It really comes down to whether you believe Gideon could pull off casting a spell while Yoda and Jedi Kirby are throwing him around. Even if he does, would Arrest hold a Jedi master for long? It's tough to say. One thing I can tell you is that Gideon's magical ability is not on the same level as the other planeswalkers. He's more of a fighter than a mage.
By the way, I'm pretty much assuming Captain America gets sucked up by Kirby within the first few seconds and stays there for the remainder of the match.
I dont think anything sucked by Kirby would stay there for more than 3-5 seconds, maybe after that he could spit him far away in star form and gain some time for a 2-1 on Gideon.
I thought we were required to give reasons for post votes to count anymore?
Anyways, It's not illogical to think Gideon's whip can tap down Yoda and Kirby, considering we saw a normal human with his whip have the exact same ability.
Plus, Gideon can destroy tapped creatures. Target yoda with the whip's magic, then obliterate him.
Cast Oust on Kirby first and it's game over.
I don't think the other team is immune to Wrath effects either...
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I thought we were required to give reasons for post votes to count anymore?
Ok, I vote for team Fun Size because I believe they are more powerful than the other team. Team Justice is simply outclassed here and to be honesty really shouldn't have even made it this far in the tournament. Fun size has a higher capacity for offense and is more durable.
Ok, I vote for team Fun Size because I believe they are more powerful than the other team. Team Justice is simply outclassed here and to be honesty really shouldn't have even made it this far in the tournament. Fun size has a higher capacity for offense and is more durable.
Can we move on now?
So is it is safe to say that your position is that it doesn't matter if a participant in this tournament is indestructible, has the ability to destroy entire platoons of soldiers in the blink of an eye, can remove single targets from the very fabric of existence, have expert tactical awareness, martial arts skills or magical abilities that prevent Yoda & Kirby from moving, attacking or blocking? All of these abilities and arguments are irrelevant on their face and pointless in contention merely because it is Yoda and Kirby, no argument needed?
Because that is certainly what it sounds like you're saying, citizen. A compelling argument that may well take them all the way to the finals even!
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"But Faith is my Sword. Truth my Shield. Knowledge my Armor."
So is it is safe to say that your position is that it doesn't matter if a participant in this tournament is indestructible, has the ability to destroy entire platoons of soldiers in the blink of an eye, can remove single targets from the very fabric of existence, have expert tactical awareness, martial arts skills or magical abilities that prevent Yoda & Kirby from moving, attacking or blocking? All of these abilities and arguments are irrelevant on their face and pointless in contention merely because it is Yoda and Kirby, no argument needed?
Because that is certainly what it sounds like you're saying, citizen. A compelling argument that may well take them all the way to the finals even!
Exactly, Kirby has NEVER faced anyone like Gideon before, how can he suck things up if he can't even move?
What good is Yoda's lightsaber when it simply won't turn on or because he can't swing it?
Any time we've seen Yoda use the force, it requires some hand motion, Gideon's whip can simply tap them down to where they can't move. No hand movement, no force use.
And while they're being held down? Captain comes into play.
I think Strategy and Magic win the day here, Whereas Yoda needs hand movements to use the force, Gideon can cast spells with a single thought. Remember, again, how mages in magic gather mana, with the memories of the lands they've been to, their connection to those lands, their homes, etc. Obviously Gideon is going to have strong memories of his home, which should channel some powerful amounts of white mana. Thinking Gideon able to tap funsize down and then oust them is not unthinkable.
I'm not voting out of popularity, i'm voting for who could realistically win, Gideon and Captain's combined intellect is far superior to Yoda's, especially since Kirby, from what I can tell, isn't that smart... In his cartoon, he would have to get assistance from children to even know what to do... Really? he can't even fight by himself... I don't think Yoda would have the time to shout instruction to Kirby in a manner he can understand.
"The Force, you must use. Pink one. "
"Whaa?" (I dunno, I can't really spell out that noise he makes, like he's confused...)
I don't even think Yoda has THAT much patience to deal with Kirby... an Obvious anti-synergy that should have been exploited in round 1.
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I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I'm going to change my vote. Arrest is just way too effective against guys who have little experience dealing with Magic. It might not hold Yoda for long (I'm sure the Force could come up with some variant of Disenchant, or at least resistance to Auras), but it could hold Kirby. Given that Gideon's going to be indestructible coming into this match (won't last forever, but it's a good pump to start with), once Yoda breaks free he couldn't take down both Gideon and Cap together.
Erm how do you arrest a rock. Kirby has the ability to turn into a rock a 1 tonne weight amongst other things.
Any spell casting takes time whereas kirby transforms almost instantaneously , arrest may work on yoda but it's not going to work on kirby who shrugs off most things unless they are quite explosive or sheer brute force.
This!
I forgot about the rock! Kirby nullifies any attack damage when he does his rock attack (but I dont know if it works outside Smash) So even if gets arrested or flared if he immediatly turns into a rock he doesnt receive any damage...however... when he goes back to normal he opens himself up for a massive hit.
So is it is safe to say that your position is that it doesn't matter if a participant in this tournament is indestructible, has the ability to destroy entire platoons of soldiers in the blink of an eye, can remove single targets from the very fabric of existence, have expert tactical awareness, martial arts skills or magical abilities that prevent Yoda & Kirby from moving, attacking or blocking? All of these abilities and arguments are irrelevant on their face and pointless in contention merely because it is Yoda and Kirby, no argument needed?
Because that is certainly what it sounds like you're saying, citizen. A compelling argument that may well take them all the way to the finals even!
No, it has nothing to do with it being Yoda and Kirby. Seriously, I'm not a Star Wars fanboy. No, it's because I'm just not impressed with team Justice. They really should have lost both the first two rounds. I think people are seriously overplaying Gideon (for example, being indestructible isn't going to protect him from getting sucked into Kirby). And Cap is basically just a dude with a shield. Sure he's in great shape and can fight but he doesn't have any gadgets, he doesn't have any weapons beyond the shield, he's not a master of sneak attacks or stealth...I just don't think he brings much to the table in this one at all.
Captain is a human, super human but human after all. The force even used by a watered down Yoda Kirby would be more than enough to crush him.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
I just can't envision a scenario where Yoda has trouble defeating either member of team JFA and then has the advantage of having Kirby help him defeat the other. That being said, I'm holding back on my forum vote so I can see more knowledgeable arguments.
Whenever I envision Gideon in battle, that video comes to mind (it was one of the first bits of information I ever got on the Planeswalker) and apparently he's quite the superpower. We see him singlehandedly take on armies of soldiers and wipe out giant hydras using spells similar to the aforementioned Planar Cleansing. Not saying that he can actually do it in this battle, since, as many pointed out, casting that kind of spell takes time, effort and concentration, but still, it's a provocative image to see Gideon light up and "explode" to leave him alone on the battlefield.
How well do you do against one?
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It's magical, but I don't think it's a 'pocket dimension'. Those who are sucked inside are still physically inside Kirby (although we may have a bit of a Tardis situation) unless Kirby absorbs them and takes their power for his own. It seems that when Kirby inhales something, he converts it into pop-star energy which he can spit back out or absorb. That energy can also be knocked out of him, but can be recovered before it fades. Kirby can sometimes also choose to release the energy back into a living creature as an ally, but that's only in one or two games with co-op, and probably shouldn't be taken as canon.
How does he inhale things? All signs point to him being an elastic being, like Mr. Fantastic, so being able to stretch his lungs or whatever he uses to vacuum makes a kind of sense. He basically takes on and stores or releases ballast, which is also kind of how he flies.
It's kind of like asking 'How is Sonic so fast', but the answer is 'Because magic rings'. Don't overthink his powers, he is whimsically magical so his powers are really only surface-deep.
Especially his magical power to bust a move.
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You mean if Kirby can take damage from an enemy he is swallowing? As far as I remember it has never happened in any game or media.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
No he can't.
I would say both Kirby and Yoda are stronger then Gideon and Cpt. America. so, no question here...
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Cut Kirby from the inside
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
This is exactly how I'd imagine Gideon casting spells, I mean, summoning divine lightning from above to incinerate opponents miles away whilst fighting in melee, yeah, Yoda and Kirby are going down...
Plus, I'd imagine The Planeswalker Spark would protect Gideon from Kirby's innards and Yoda's force powers... The force isn't magical, it's metaphysical, which we know the Spark protects from, see - Phyrexian Oil and Planeswalker Spark. The Spark protected the planeswalker from the corrupting features of the oil. Hence why when captured, Venser wasn't turned. and while the other Vulshok fell to corruption, Koth remained untouched.
This fight isn't as one sided as some would like to believe...
Yoda hasn't really fought against magic before, thus he'd have to protection from a spell like Oust, or Celestial Flare. Plus, we can also infer Gideon's whip has the ability to tap things, see- Gideon's Lawkeeper. Thusly tapping them and getting to use his first cards -2 ability, Destroy target Tapped Creature.
Gideon's Martial Prowess is also nothing to sneeze at. Personally leading the campaign to take back the ninth disctrict on Ravnica, becoming directly involved in the action himself. He learned some powerful moves from Aurelia's legion.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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Poll votes:
FS - 13
JFA - 7
Post votes:
FS - 8
JFA - 3
Total votes:
FS - 21
JFA - 10
Breakdown:
Iso - FS
Plaguefather - JFA
Belgareth - ???
Von - FS
Stardust - FS
Jay13x - FS
Doctor Strange - JFA
Froze_Over - ???
Biefall - FS
Warp778 - JFA
narah - FS
jeffbcrandall - FS
Ophidian Eye - ???
Belgareth - FS
Notes:
On Kirby's stomach... the only game I've played which (to my knowledge) allows us to actually see what's in there is Kirby: Squeak Squad, and it acts like a giant room where he can keep several items at once (in that game, five maximum). Aside from that though, I don't think there's ever been a canonical explanation for what happens inside that mouth of his.
Though the votes seem distant for now, the match is still young, and it's times like these, when all hope is stacked against them, that Captain America and Gideon usually manage to pull a comeback in whatever media they are in... and the past three matches. Seriously, if I remember correctly, every match they've been in so far in the tournament has literally been a comeback victory. Will their winning streak end here at the tip of a lightsaber and a black hole? You decide!
How well do you do against one?
Kirby is immune to cutting. Even enemies with giant swords can't hurt him, nor can anyone escape from his maw once Kirby swallows them (although there are enemies that can resist being swallowed).
Otherwise Kirby could never get his 'Link' powers
I am, of course, ignoring Smash Bros. on this one. Gameplay requires people be able to break free in that game.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Anyway, despite inventing a large portion of your post, you're right that this fight is not one-sided. Gideon and Yoda are on a pretty even playing field here, with Yoda being the stronger melee fighter and Gideon relying on magic to win. It really comes down to whether you believe Gideon could pull off casting a spell while Yoda and Jedi Kirby are throwing him around. Even if he does, would Arrest hold a Jedi master for long? It's tough to say. One thing I can tell you is that Gideon's magical ability is not on the same level as the other planeswalkers. He's more of a fighter than a mage.
By the way, I'm pretty much assuming Captain America gets sucked up by Kirby within the first few seconds and stays there for the remainder of the match.
I dont think anything sucked by Kirby would stay there for more than 3-5 seconds, maybe after that he could spit him far away in star form and gain some time for a 2-1 on Gideon.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
I thought we were required to give reasons for post votes to count anymore?
Anyways, It's not illogical to think Gideon's whip can tap down Yoda and Kirby, considering we saw a normal human with his whip have the exact same ability.
Plus, Gideon can destroy tapped creatures. Target yoda with the whip's magic, then obliterate him.
Cast Oust on Kirby first and it's game over.
I don't think the other team is immune to Wrath effects either...
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Ok, I vote for team Fun Size because I believe they are more powerful than the other team. Team Justice is simply outclassed here and to be honesty really shouldn't have even made it this far in the tournament. Fun size has a higher capacity for offense and is more durable.
Can we move on now?
So is it is safe to say that your position is that it doesn't matter if a participant in this tournament is indestructible, has the ability to destroy entire platoons of soldiers in the blink of an eye, can remove single targets from the very fabric of existence, have expert tactical awareness, martial arts skills or magical abilities that prevent Yoda & Kirby from moving, attacking or blocking? All of these abilities and arguments are irrelevant on their face and pointless in contention merely because it is Yoda and Kirby, no argument needed?
Because that is certainly what it sounds like you're saying, citizen. A compelling argument that may well take them all the way to the finals even!
-Myself.
Exactly, Kirby has NEVER faced anyone like Gideon before, how can he suck things up if he can't even move?
What good is Yoda's lightsaber when it simply won't turn on or because he can't swing it?
Any time we've seen Yoda use the force, it requires some hand motion, Gideon's whip can simply tap them down to where they can't move. No hand movement, no force use.
And while they're being held down? Captain comes into play.
I think Strategy and Magic win the day here, Whereas Yoda needs hand movements to use the force, Gideon can cast spells with a single thought. Remember, again, how mages in magic gather mana, with the memories of the lands they've been to, their connection to those lands, their homes, etc. Obviously Gideon is going to have strong memories of his home, which should channel some powerful amounts of white mana. Thinking Gideon able to tap funsize down and then oust them is not unthinkable.
I'm not voting out of popularity, i'm voting for who could realistically win, Gideon and Captain's combined intellect is far superior to Yoda's, especially since Kirby, from what I can tell, isn't that smart... In his cartoon, he would have to get assistance from children to even know what to do... Really? he can't even fight by himself... I don't think Yoda would have the time to shout instruction to Kirby in a manner he can understand.
"The Force, you must use. Pink one. "
"Whaa?" (I dunno, I can't really spell out that noise he makes, like he's confused...)
I don't even think Yoda has THAT much patience to deal with Kirby... an Obvious anti-synergy that should have been exploited in round 1.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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Poll votes:
FS - 14
JFA - 12
Post votes:
FS - 9
JFA - 3
Total votes:
FS - 23
JFA - 15
Breakdown:
Iso - FS
Plaguefather - JFA
Belgareth - ???
Von - FS
Stardust - FS
Jay13x - FS
Doctor Strange - JFA
Froze_Over - ???
Biefall - FS
Warp778 - JFA
narah - FS
jeffbcrandall - FS
Ophidian Eye - ???
Belgareth - FS
sirpsychosexy - FS
Notes:
Please let me know if I made any tally mistakes so far.
How well do you do against one?
Vote Justice for All.
This!
I forgot about the rock! Kirby nullifies any attack damage when he does his rock attack (but I dont know if it works outside Smash) So even if gets arrested or flared if he immediatly turns into a rock he doesnt receive any damage...however... when he goes back to normal he opens himself up for a massive hit.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
No, it has nothing to do with it being Yoda and Kirby. Seriously, I'm not a Star Wars fanboy. No, it's because I'm just not impressed with team Justice. They really should have lost both the first two rounds. I think people are seriously overplaying Gideon (for example, being indestructible isn't going to protect him from getting sucked into Kirby). And Cap is basically just a dude with a shield. Sure he's in great shape and can fight but he doesn't have any gadgets, he doesn't have any weapons beyond the shield, he's not a master of sneak attacks or stealth...I just don't think he brings much to the table in this one at all.
wall of stone
He can arrest this so how is a kirby sized rock any different to an arrest variant?