By the same token, we've seen the big bad death star in action, haven't we? Two of them, actually. Two planet killers. Well, between them, they managed to blow up one planet, leave basically the same glaring flaw in the construct itself, and this is your super weapon of choice in the star wars universe.
So, using my flawed logic (you my homie, Spock. Live long and prosper, dawg) death star logistics would play out like this:
1. Gathering enough resources without ST military strikes to build something the size of a moon.
2. SOMEHOW MANAGING TO PLUG THAT GODDAM WOMPRAT SIZED EXHAUST PORT
3. Being able to rely upon maybe one half of a planet being destroyed (again, two were created, only one planet destroyed
4. Banking on the fact that the star trek universe might just be too smart and too advanced to realize that there's one super dumbass flaw in this thing.
Yeah....bring it on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
The engineers of the SW universe ALONE are an AWESOME advantage for ST. I mean Jesus Christ, what happened? You can only hope somebody got fired after those debacles. Or maybe...GASP...the SW universe is so incompetent THAT THEY HIRED THE SAME FOOL TO MAKE BOTH DEATH STARS!!!!!
I can see it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
Well, between them, they managed to blow up one planet, leave basically the same glaring flaw in the construct itself, and this is your super weapon of choice in the star wars universe.
It went Despayre, then a warship and hundreds of X-Wings, then Alderaan. Also the second Death Star didn't have the exhaust port weakness—Palpatine was just an idiot and tried to draw the Rebels in with a half-finished Death Star. It would have been pretty well unbeatable if it was finished.
Also Eclipse-class Star Destroyers, the World Devastators, the Sun Crusher... take your pick, the Empire apparently had more superweapons than a comic book villain.
Edit:
Quote from Enizzle »
Or maybe...GASP...the SW universe is so incompetent THAT THEY HIRED THE SAME FOOL TO MAKE BOTH DEATH STARS!!!!!
If you believe a not-very-good novel, Palpatine kept killing Bevel Lemelisk for his repeated failures, only to resurrect him in clone bodies to... keep designing superweapons. For some reason. Then after Palpatine's death, Lemelisk goes and fails at making a superweapon for a Hutt. Still doesn't change that only the first Death Star had a huge, glaring weakness such that one torpedo would destroy it, but hey.
Eh, Star Trek has it's fair share of superweapons as well:
- The Doomsday Machine
- V'Ger
- The Xindi Superweapon
- The Genesis Device
- Red Matter Torpedoes
- The Scimitar
There you have a couple planet destroyers, a planet rearranger, a planet eater, a black hole generator, and something that just kills all the life on a planet whilst leaving it otherwise unchanged.
That's kinda what I'm saying though. I mean, a lot of SW stuff seems.....either cartoonishly buffoon level retarded (resurrecting failed superweapon dolt) or incredibly lacking in sense (yeah, the first one had a glaring flaw, BUT OH BOY IF THAT SECOND ONE WAS TOTALLY FINISHED....)
I mean, I don't mean any offense here, but you gotta admit that's some pretty poor management there. You're talking about a galactic body that had their PLANET BASED death star shield generator overrun by TEDDY BEARS, and to boot the overrun generator was protecting an unfinished planet killer that was then destroyed from the inside by Lando Calrissian after managing to destroy two rebel starships.
When does your belief become suspended?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
I think Enizzle makes some very good points. The tech of the two universes can be argued back and forth all day but no one can argue the fact that the Empire is clearly run by a bunch of incompetent morons.
I think Enizzle makes some very good points. The tech of the two universes can be argued back and forth all day but no one can argue the fact that the Empire is clearly run by a bunch of incompetent morons.
If no one else, Thrawn and Pellaeon would like a word with you. Just because Palpatine was an idiot who appointed some highly questionable people doesn't mean that the Empire had a total dearth of skilled leaders—if anything it'd be impossible to run an empire of that size with nothing but incompetents.
Edit: Also again, this thread is about pitting the two universes against each other. I could make a solid argument that the New Republic could beat the ST galaxy, or that the Yuuzhan Vong could (and let's be honest, they totally would), or even that the Old Republic could have.
Ok hang on a minute. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa now. Let's address these issues head on. First and foremost, your argument about the YuhzAn Fogelberg is tantamount to me arguing that the Observers would wreck the SW universe out of hand. So if you want to bring in your super army, I'll bring mine. And you know what they say about bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Second, the poor leadership of the empire is completely in bounds as far as universe vs universe goes. Grand Admiral Thrawn was a cool guy. I liked him a lot. Especially his fondness for art and what he could read about the artist from it. But once again, it's a "cut off the head and the body will die" situation. Let's be totally honest. You're (and I'm assuming you're a SW supporter) outgunned, out-teched, out-led and basically on the short end of the stick. I'm all for fandom, I even refer to SW as "The Holy Trilogy" and said that even I, a ST fan through and through, cannot deny the legitimacy of the impact and worldwide phenomenon that SW truly is.
But at the same time, there's gotta be some hard truth here. The fact of the matter is, ST has pretty much every advantage. We're not talking about the Yhuzan Fog or the Observers or Q or Darkseid or Carmen Sandiego. We're talking Empire/Rebellion vs The Fed/Klingon/Romulan/MAYBE Borg. Why? They're the main protagonist/antagonists of the series/movies.
The sad fact of the matter is, the empire as a whole is poorly led. Even the rebellion is, minus a few deus ex machinas. Now compare that to the federation/Klingons/Romulans etc, which have had a presence in the ST universe since its inception, either as allies or enemies. Even if you throw in Thrawn, (again, a fan) and Pelenor or whatever his name is, what percentage of forces do they make up? Whereas you have Picard, Sisko, Data, (Kirk/Spock optional) and *sigh* Janeway, with all the goodies ST has to offer....it's really not that much of a fight
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
So I guess you're saying the jedi suck at leading? I'd rather have Yoda on the bridge of a ship than Captain Kirk...
While Palpatine did make the mistake of letting an idiot design the ventilation system of the Death Star and was way to over confident late in life he also managed to manipulate an entire galaxie's political system in ways that would make current US politicians blush. It wouldnt surprise me if he was able to turn half of the ST universe against itself.
Nope. ST has moved beyond magic and caste leadership. Are the Jedi good battle commanders? Absolutely. But when you're dealing with an enemy that combats your force choke with beaming you directly into a star, it's kind of a moot point.
"Hey. Cool lightsaber."
"Surrender this vessel immediately. It is now the property of the Empire/Rebellion Alliance."
"Um...energize?"
Problem solved.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
Who is saying that they would be able to? I dont know the specifics but I am guessing they never won a battle in ST by beaming a Klingon commander off of his bridge...
If you want to argue on ridiculous levels the Jedi/Sith leader on board would just use the Force to disable the other ship's transporter and weapons, or tell the other ship that the droids they are looking for are on another ship.
No, they never won a battle by beaming someone off of their ship. Why? Shields. Shields that SW doesn't have. You guys have deflectors. Deflectors deflect. They don't insulate/protect the way that ST shields do. This has been discussed.
Furthermore, in the highly unlikely event that a SW ship not only manages to breach a ST ships shields, but also it's hull, and offload a Jedi/Sith trooper, ST ships are equipped with numerous transporter bays. They'd know where the breach is, where the alien life forms are, and in a nanosecond have them targeted for transport and off that mother$@&?&$? ship in a heartbeat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
Why would they need to offload a Jedi? Are you saying Jedi mind tricks have a defined range?
Also I dont see how you can guarantee that the Star Trek Transporters wouldnt easily be able to be jammed by Star Wars tech. If I remember right there are episodes in different Star Trek series where caves prevent teleporting... The deflector shields could even cause enough interference to prevent a transport lock.
The Borg were holed up in one corner of the galaxy—clearly, if they could have assimilated their surrounding area, they would have, but they didn't. They're not all-powerful, they can't adapt to anything. Species 8472 showed us that their ships can be blown up the old-fashioned way so long as the attacks are powerful enough. Even ignoring that, the fleet in First Contact was wearing the cube down through sheer attrition. Adaptation can only go so far, and when you hit that breaking point, you're resistant but not immune.
Umm they DID they assimilate almost the entire Quadrant. They even started wars with extra denominational beings becuase they didn't have enough people to destroy. Yes the purfict biological components of evolution gave them a run for their money. and yes they did use kenetic attacks (like darting stright in the cube and KILLING all the borg NOT blowing up the ship) I would also add Adaptation is key. The star wars universe isn't used to "insert random bad thing here is happening this week we need to deal with it" Star trek IS and from the series we can see its not just random ships that have it (Deep space 9). Surprise is going to be a big player here. if you don't know anything about the borg or the the "I erase things from the time stream" weapons you don't expect them.
There's a definine theme of exaggerating the Borg and turning them into some unstoppable Mary Sue race, but the onscreen reality is that they're more fallible than not. The SW universe would have more than enough counters to the Borg: Various vessels have superlasers (Death Star, Eclipse-class Star Destroyers, etc), the SW universe has the sheer numbers to overwhelm them (Wookieepedia says that at its peak, the Imperial navy had millions of ships, to say nothing of the other galactic powers), and of course there are always our similarly overpowered friends the Jedi and the Sith (the Jedi at one point wrecked an entire battle fleet including a Super Star Destroyer simply by using the Force).
Only if you know them, Remember they wouldn't have the benfit of KNOWING kinetic weapons work better, or Knowing that the weakness. against conventional energy weapons the borg ARE unstoppable. that's what makes them terrifying, Only Plot based reasons are why they have ever really lost.
Also the Yuuzhan Vong. While the Borg and the arguably more powerful/successful Dominion wreaked their fare share of havoc in a quadrant or two each before being beaten, the Yuuzhan Vong basically dominated every power in the galaxy. That's an accomplishment no ST race can boast.
being able to say you beat everyone in your grade when you are in Grade 6 VS saying you are the top of the pack in MMA are radical different things. Being the best with no true opposition doesn't really mean anything.
Completely possible. Deflector shields may in fact prevent transport. But that still leaves naval combat, and you're still outgunned. And yeah, there's a limit to Jedi mind tricks. I highly doubt Master Cegeradian can convince Captain Picard to turn around and leave a few light years out.
Furthermore, the only real threat I see to ST ships is in fact getting a Jedi/Sith onto a ship. That could cause very bad damage. I'm not downplaying the force, I'm simply stating that if a transporter is operational, and there's troops on that ship, they're not on that ship very long.
But it's a tech question. With ST, it all boils down to tech. Not numbers, or the force, or location. Tech. Naval, we got you beat. Now, what no one has brought up as a HUGE advantage for SW is ground battles. You guys could attempt an invasion of a planet (after we nuke the death star, heh heh) and should you manage to land troops, that's a bad situation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
One would argue that the Star Wars Universe is much better explored by the time we as an audience got to see it. We dont see tons of last minute adaptation in the story because there are few surprises left. That doesnt mean they wouldnt be able to deal with a surprise and adapt when something came up.
I also bet the Sith are pretty good at extracting information.
But it's a tech question. With ST, it all boils down to tech. Not numbers, or the force, or location. Tech. Naval, we got you beat. Now, what no one has brought up as a HUGE advantage for SW is ground battles. You guys could attempt an invasion of a planet (after we nuke the death star, heh heh) and should you manage to land troops, that's a bad situation.
Other than the transporters and maybe shield design how is their tech that far superior? Lets not forget that the Star Wars universe does have shields that can stop "slow" moving objects too. The second death star had a shield that prevented ships from passing through.
You say ST has an advantage in unknown enemies but SW has such a vast array of known enemies that I find it hard to believe ST could throw something at them that would be that hard for a SW general to adapt to. They have a much broader wealth of knowledge to draw upon from so many thousands of races.
Unknown enemies? What? No. Not me man. And let's say you're right. Let's say their tech is completely equal EXCEPT transporters and shields. Now think about that, and let me know what realizations spark in your mind as to their importance on the battlefield.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
Time Travel/Weapons that destroy modify and destroy items (and everything they interacted with) from histroy?
I'm not talking about Q I am just talking about future federation that interacted with voyager. Under a single united goal, that could literal give the ST universe the vertical tech jump. Basicly they get to refight the battle millions of times each time at the second of possable loss, go back in time and try again with all information gained.
Time travel is so common in the Star Trek Universe that the Federation literally has a Department of Temporal Investigations. They have guidelines about how to handle missions involving time travel and everything.
Which means in the ST world the future is effected by the present... which means all it takes is success in the right place and the ST guys dont even discover time travel... or are we assuming post time travel discovery and basically saying that no matter what it's impossible for ST to lose because they will always do everything perfectly which makes it not worth discussing?
Unknown enemies? What? No. Not me man. And let's say you're right. Let's say their tech is completely equal EXCEPT transporters and shields. Now think about that, and let me know what realizations spark in your mind as to their importance on the battlefield.
Except that they're not equal. This isn't a case of theorycraft or anything, but a result of what we can see onscreen in both series. I showed earlier in this thread that Star Wars ships are several thousand times faster than Star Trek ships, for example. Just because SW's technology doesn't look as advanced doesn't mean that it's not as advanced—the reactor of the common ISD is described in canon as being equal to a miniature star, a level of power output ST is nowhere close to matching. They might not have transporters or replicators, but they have the ability to fly faster, hit harder, and maintain logistics across much greater regions of space. There's every reason to believe SW is far more technically advanced, despite the lack of transporters/replicators/etc.
Furthermore, if bad weather can block transporters, SW shields definitely can, even if they're called "deflector shields" and don't work in the exact same way.
They'd know where the breach is, where the alien life forms are, and in a nanosecond have them targeted for transport and off that mother$@&?&$? ship in a heartbeat.
This is why pretty much every ship/station that gets boarded beams the intruders off the ship instead of getting security teams to repel them.
Oh wait. That's just you playing up ST technology as being far more powerful than it's ever shown in canon.
First and foremost, your argument about the YuhzAn Fogelberg is tantamount to me arguing that the Observers would wreck the SW universe out of hand. So if you want to bring in your super army, I'll bring mine.
Do you even know what the Yuuzhan Vong are? They're basically just Species 8472 but coming from another galaxy instead of "fluidic space." Kind of an unholy Protoss-Zerg combination in ideology. There's absolutely no reason to exclude them if you're going to include the Borg.
Even if you throw in Thrawn, (again, a fan) and Pelenor or whatever his name is, what percentage of forces do they make up? Whereas you have Picard, Sisko, Data, (Kirk/Spock optional) and *sigh* Janeway, with all the goodies ST has to offer....it's really not that much of a fight
If you want to go into percents, the entire Federation/Klingons/Romulans/etc combine to have less than one percent of the Empire alone, being outnumbered thousands to one by the Imperial navy—the Alpha Quadrant powers measure their ships by the thousands, but the Empire measures its ships by the millions. Even if you bring the Dominion into it, the ST universe is massively outnumbered and outgunned.
Quote from Zaphrasz »
Time travel is so common in the Star Trek Universe that the Federation literally has a Department of Temporal Investigations. They have guidelines about how to handle missions involving time travel and everything.
Which, amusingly, would probably attempt to stop any time-based warfare.
Forget Star Wars or Star Trek. I'd put a Sovetskii Soyuz-class Heavy Cruiser or McKenna-class Battleship against anything from Star Wars or Star Trek any day of the week.
Just imagine a McKenna like the Werewolf jumping into the middle of the Death Star or an Imperial fleet, giving a full broadside from the 48 Heavy Naval PPCs a couple times, and immediately jumping right back out...33 light years away.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, using my flawed logic (you my homie, Spock. Live long and prosper, dawg) death star logistics would play out like this:
1. Gathering enough resources without ST military strikes to build something the size of a moon.
2. SOMEHOW MANAGING TO PLUG THAT GODDAM WOMPRAT SIZED EXHAUST PORT
3. Being able to rely upon maybe one half of a planet being destroyed (again, two were created, only one planet destroyed
4. Banking on the fact that the star trek universe might just be too smart and too advanced to realize that there's one super dumbass flaw in this thing.
Yeah....bring it on.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
I can see it.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
It went Despayre, then a warship and hundreds of X-Wings, then Alderaan. Also the second Death Star didn't have the exhaust port weakness—Palpatine was just an idiot and tried to draw the Rebels in with a half-finished Death Star. It would have been pretty well unbeatable if it was finished.
Also Eclipse-class Star Destroyers, the World Devastators, the Sun Crusher... take your pick, the Empire apparently had more superweapons than a comic book villain.
Edit:
If you believe a not-very-good novel, Palpatine kept killing Bevel Lemelisk for his repeated failures, only to resurrect him in clone bodies to... keep designing superweapons. For some reason. Then after Palpatine's death, Lemelisk goes and fails at making a superweapon for a Hutt. Still doesn't change that only the first Death Star had a huge, glaring weakness such that one torpedo would destroy it, but hey.
- The Doomsday Machine
- V'Ger
- The Xindi Superweapon
- The Genesis Device
- Red Matter Torpedoes
- The Scimitar
There you have a couple planet destroyers, a planet rearranger, a planet eater, a black hole generator, and something that just kills all the life on a planet whilst leaving it otherwise unchanged.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
I mean, I don't mean any offense here, but you gotta admit that's some pretty poor management there. You're talking about a galactic body that had their PLANET BASED death star shield generator overrun by TEDDY BEARS, and to boot the overrun generator was protecting an unfinished planet killer that was then destroyed from the inside by Lando Calrissian after managing to destroy two rebel starships.
When does your belief become suspended?
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
If no one else, Thrawn and Pellaeon would like a word with you. Just because Palpatine was an idiot who appointed some highly questionable people doesn't mean that the Empire had a total dearth of skilled leaders—if anything it'd be impossible to run an empire of that size with nothing but incompetents.
Edit: Also again, this thread is about pitting the two universes against each other. I could make a solid argument that the New Republic could beat the ST galaxy, or that the Yuuzhan Vong could (and let's be honest, they totally would), or even that the Old Republic could have.
Second, the poor leadership of the empire is completely in bounds as far as universe vs universe goes. Grand Admiral Thrawn was a cool guy. I liked him a lot. Especially his fondness for art and what he could read about the artist from it. But once again, it's a "cut off the head and the body will die" situation. Let's be totally honest. You're (and I'm assuming you're a SW supporter) outgunned, out-teched, out-led and basically on the short end of the stick. I'm all for fandom, I even refer to SW as "The Holy Trilogy" and said that even I, a ST fan through and through, cannot deny the legitimacy of the impact and worldwide phenomenon that SW truly is.
But at the same time, there's gotta be some hard truth here. The fact of the matter is, ST has pretty much every advantage. We're not talking about the Yhuzan Fog or the Observers or Q or Darkseid or Carmen Sandiego. We're talking Empire/Rebellion vs The Fed/Klingon/Romulan/MAYBE Borg. Why? They're the main protagonist/antagonists of the series/movies.
The sad fact of the matter is, the empire as a whole is poorly led. Even the rebellion is, minus a few deus ex machinas. Now compare that to the federation/Klingons/Romulans etc, which have had a presence in the ST universe since its inception, either as allies or enemies. Even if you throw in Thrawn, (again, a fan) and Pelenor or whatever his name is, what percentage of forces do they make up? Whereas you have Picard, Sisko, Data, (Kirk/Spock optional) and *sigh* Janeway, with all the goodies ST has to offer....it's really not that much of a fight
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
While Palpatine did make the mistake of letting an idiot design the ventilation system of the Death Star and was way to over confident late in life he also managed to manipulate an entire galaxie's political system in ways that would make current US politicians blush. It wouldnt surprise me if he was able to turn half of the ST universe against itself.
"Hey. Cool lightsaber."
"Surrender this vessel immediately. It is now the property of the Empire/Rebellion Alliance."
"Um...energize?"
Problem solved.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
If you want to argue on ridiculous levels the Jedi/Sith leader on board would just use the Force to disable the other ship's transporter and weapons, or tell the other ship that the droids they are looking for are on another ship.
Furthermore, in the highly unlikely event that a SW ship not only manages to breach a ST ships shields, but also it's hull, and offload a Jedi/Sith trooper, ST ships are equipped with numerous transporter bays. They'd know where the breach is, where the alien life forms are, and in a nanosecond have them targeted for transport and off that mother$@&?&$? ship in a heartbeat.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
Also I dont see how you can guarantee that the Star Trek Transporters wouldnt easily be able to be jammed by Star Wars tech. If I remember right there are episodes in different Star Trek series where caves prevent teleporting... The deflector shields could even cause enough interference to prevent a transport lock.
being able to say you beat everyone in your grade when you are in Grade 6 VS saying you are the top of the pack in MMA are radical different things. Being the best with no true opposition doesn't really mean anything.
Furthermore, the only real threat I see to ST ships is in fact getting a Jedi/Sith onto a ship. That could cause very bad damage. I'm not downplaying the force, I'm simply stating that if a transporter is operational, and there's troops on that ship, they're not on that ship very long.
But it's a tech question. With ST, it all boils down to tech. Not numbers, or the force, or location. Tech. Naval, we got you beat. Now, what no one has brought up as a HUGE advantage for SW is ground battles. You guys could attempt an invasion of a planet (after we nuke the death star, heh heh) and should you manage to land troops, that's a bad situation.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
I also bet the Sith are pretty good at extracting information.
They are able to adapt to completely new enemies very fast and figure out very potent countermeasures for them.
This would give ST a strategic edge.
Other than the transporters and maybe shield design how is their tech that far superior? Lets not forget that the Star Wars universe does have shields that can stop "slow" moving objects too. The second death star had a shield that prevented ships from passing through.
You say ST has an advantage in unknown enemies but SW has such a vast array of known enemies that I find it hard to believe ST could throw something at them that would be that hard for a SW general to adapt to. They have a much broader wealth of knowledge to draw upon from so many thousands of races.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
I'm not talking about Q I am just talking about future federation that interacted with voyager. Under a single united goal, that could literal give the ST universe the vertical tech jump. Basicly they get to refight the battle millions of times each time at the second of possable loss, go back in time and try again with all information gained.
Except that they're not equal. This isn't a case of theorycraft or anything, but a result of what we can see onscreen in both series. I showed earlier in this thread that Star Wars ships are several thousand times faster than Star Trek ships, for example. Just because SW's technology doesn't look as advanced doesn't mean that it's not as advanced—the reactor of the common ISD is described in canon as being equal to a miniature star, a level of power output ST is nowhere close to matching. They might not have transporters or replicators, but they have the ability to fly faster, hit harder, and maintain logistics across much greater regions of space. There's every reason to believe SW is far more technically advanced, despite the lack of transporters/replicators/etc.
Furthermore, if bad weather can block transporters, SW shields definitely can, even if they're called "deflector shields" and don't work in the exact same way.
This is why pretty much every ship/station that gets boarded beams the intruders off the ship instead of getting security teams to repel them.
Oh wait. That's just you playing up ST technology as being far more powerful than it's ever shown in canon.
Do you even know what the Yuuzhan Vong are? They're basically just Species 8472 but coming from another galaxy instead of "fluidic space." Kind of an unholy Protoss-Zerg combination in ideology. There's absolutely no reason to exclude them if you're going to include the Borg.
If you want to go into percents, the entire Federation/Klingons/Romulans/etc combine to have less than one percent of the Empire alone, being outnumbered thousands to one by the Imperial navy—the Alpha Quadrant powers measure their ships by the thousands, but the Empire measures its ships by the millions. Even if you bring the Dominion into it, the ST universe is massively outnumbered and outgunned.
Which, amusingly, would probably attempt to stop any time-based warfare.
Just imagine a McKenna like the Werewolf jumping into the middle of the Death Star or an Imperial fleet, giving a full broadside from the 48 Heavy Naval PPCs a couple times, and immediately jumping right back out...33 light years away.