I live with a roommate who is not on the lease. It's a long story - the guy who lived here before agreed to have her stay with us with no lease. She seemed ok and was paying on time. Guy left about 1 year ago, and I've been living with her since. I did not add her to the lease (I know .. very stupid of me) because it would cost $100. And she didn't want to spend that.
Here's the problem. She hasn't paid rent for March or April. And every time I ask her about it, she turns into the b-word from heck. At this point, I doubt I will be able to collect for May, June, or July.
The lease automatically renews in July, and I'd like to continue living here as it's very affordable and close to where I work.
What do I need to do at this point? I've heard from a coworker that I have to write a letter to her and explain why I want her out. And then she has 30 days to vacate if the rent is not paid. Is that correct?
Also, if I'm willing to just give up on collecting, can I have her automatically kicked out when the lease is due for renewal (July)? What would the process be?
The last option would be to move. I have found a few suitable places. Would that automatically kick her out as well?
Any help from folks involved in real estate would be appreciated.
Who is the land owner? If she is not on the lease, then she has no real legal right to stay there. Conceivably the land owner can just kick her out at any time with no impact on the owner at all.
Of course, that means the land owner has no legal right to get rent from her either, as there is no contract stating that she will pay rent at so and so time.
You don't need to write a letter to kick her out because she has no contract. The thing your coworker talks about is a common feature in lease contracts and, afaik, required by the law. Basically, you must give a notice to someone that you intend to kick them out and give them reasonable time to look for a new place to stay.
So, basically it comes down to this-
If you are the land owner/legal owner of the property, then you are not obligated anything to her. But because she signed no lease, she is not obligated anything to you either. Just kick her out.
If you are renting a property and the land owner isn't aware of her existence on the property, then you can get in trouble. Land owners generally don't like people subleasing/doing any living on a property that doesn't involve a lease/contract with them because said people are not liable to anything done within the property. Because they're under no contract. In short, whatever the people does, the land owner can be liable to as well. Many contracts specifically waive this portion out, leaving responsibility in the hands of the people with the lease.
I am renting the place from a rental company. By the way, the house has 3 bedrooms, so space isn't an issue.
The lease does say that on one other than those on the lease are permitted to live at the house, she (owner) has told me verbally that it's all right. The owner of the company knows about her and has said that as long as she gets the rent money, then she's happy. I've already paid through the end of July, so there's no risk of me getting evicted. I'd rather not get the rental company involved if it's possible.
I have started to write a letter that more or less describes the situation. Would June 1 be an appropriate ultimatum date?
Sorry for the barrage of questions. I just want this dealt with as swiftly (and with little drama / potential dangers) as possible.
Lesson for all of you out there: do not allow someone to live with you with no lease.
The law requires a month, I think. At least, every contract I've seen says there that a reasonable time is typically a month.
I would try to get the rental company involved if you're assured that they won't do anything to you. It will be much easier and cleaner than you handling things alone. Given what you've written of her, it sounds like she's not the most... agreeable person around. It is always important to take into consideration unpredictable actions from people.
If they are a rental company, then they must have some experience with these types of situations and can help you.
There may be a tenant rights resource in your state/city that would give you access to a lawyer for free for a few minutes. I used that back when I lived in Seattle.
My impression from that experience was that informal arrangements could be construed as a binding legal agreement. i.e., accepting rent from a resident could provide all tenant rights.
I'm not a lawyer and not familiar with tenant rights in your city/state (nor do I even know which state that is), so I can't provide better advice than suggesting you reach out to someone who does have that experience. You may also want to read the local eviction guidelines - I'm making a (not necessarily accurate) assumption that they would apply.
I concur with reaching out to someone with experience. In general, not being on the lease makes it easier to get rid of a tenant, but I recommend locking up all your valuables while she's still there because that doesn't mean they'll respond well. Most laws only require 7-30 days notice. In general, don't be a dick, but make it clear that if she doesn't start paying rent you're going to have to evict her. She's lived in this apartment for two months on your dime, I wouldn't allow another two.
Moving out is not a good solution, because it doesn't necessarily force her to move out, and you'll be responsible to the rental company for anything she does, including additional rent and loss of deposits and whatever other fees if she refuses to move.
And yes, subletting (or subleasing) is a bad idea. Not only because of situations like this, but because in some states or municipalities, it's actually illegal.
In case I didn't specify earlier, I've been paying the rent in full on time every month (and most of the times ahead of time). Then I'd collect from the roommate.
Yesterday, I spoke to her about the rent again. I didn't give her the letter I had written. She was more approachable this time. Later I found her taking pictures of her stuff (game machines, collectibles, etc). She said she's going to sell off some of her stuff to make rent by the end of the week. Some of the stuff were gifts (like from parents and her bf). And then she cried. Now I feel bad.
I do plan to get the rental company involved. I will write them an email later in the week just to highlight my frustrations with the rent situation. I'm sure they'll understand, as they normally only have contact with me. I'd also like to let them know that when the lease renews, I would like to have her move out or I will move out. Do you guys think this would be ok?
Sorry if this message sounds choppy. I had a very rough ER shift last night.
Yesterday, I spoke to her about the rent again. I didn't give her the letter I had written. She was more approachable this time. Later I found her taking pictures of her stuff (game machines, collectibles, etc). She said she's going to sell off some of her stuff to make rent by the end of the week. Some of the stuff were gifts (like from parents and her bf). And then she cried. Now I feel bad.
You shouldn't feel bad for her. I suspected that she had money issues if she was paying rent on time previously and just stopped suddenly. But that doesn't permit her to not tell you about the situation and attempt to work out a solution. What she did was wrong and it's good that you put your foot down on it.
I do plan to get the rental company involved. I will write them an email later in the week just to highlight my frustrations with the rent situation. I'm sure they'll understand, as they normally only have contact with me. I'd also like to let them know that when the lease renews, I would like to have her move out or I will move out. Do you guys think this would be ok?
No need to voice frustrations or make ultimatums or anything. Just ask them for any help they can provide if she doesn't willingly move out or restart paying the rent.
In case I didn't specify earlier, I've been paying the rent in full on time every month (and most of the times ahead of time). Then I'd collect from the roommate.
Yesterday, I spoke to her about the rent again. I didn't give her the letter I had written. She was more approachable this time. Later I found her taking pictures of her stuff (game machines, collectibles, etc). She said she's going to sell off some of her stuff to make rent by the end of the week. Some of the stuff were gifts (like from parents and her bf). And then she cried. Now I feel bad.
I do plan to get the rental company involved. I will write them an email later in the week just to highlight my frustrations with the rent situation. I'm sure they'll understand, as they normally only have contact with me. I'd also like to let them know that when the lease renews, I would like to have her move out or I will move out. Do you guys think this would be ok?
Sorry if this message sounds choppy. I had a very rough ER shift last night.
If she's not on the lease, then the rental company isn't going to have any legal obligation to do anything to help you with this, will likely not get involved as long as your rent is paid & will legally hold you responsible for anything your roommate does. The roommate is your problem & the vast majority of landlords will just remind you of that if you ask for their help. You may need to start eviction processes yourself... & because of that, the only real advice you'd be able to find here is to get in touch with a lawyer.
http://www.laborlawtalk.com/forum.php --> I'd suggest posting your question in the Landlord & Tenant Law sub on this forum. I've gotten good advice from that forum's staff on a number of legal issues in the past. They may also be able to refer you to a lawyer in your area who may be able to help for little or no money.
I can't stress this enough: if you have a potential legal issue, 99.9% of forum posters here aren't in a position to provide legal assistance/advice, let alone actual legal advice. You're going to need a lawyer's assistance, if not for actual court filings to get the roommate out, then at least for advice on how to proceed.
I would say that 100% of the people on this forum are not qualified to help you including lawyers because they don't fully know your situation.
In law, even seemingly insignificant facts can completely turn the case from one side to another, and there's no way to fully know all the facts unless one of us gets to talk to you in person.
Every state's law is different, and leases are governed by state law. I could go into the law of leases here, but that's not going to be the most helpful to you.
In fact it is more likely to inadvertantly lead you astray.
So the best advice is to talk to a lawyer in your area. I don't know what state you live in, but here in Virginia, there are numbers you can call, and the state has posted on its website a layperson accessible pdf of the state laws concerning leases.
Magickware, thanks for the words of support. I've just never been in this kind of situation before (and I don't plan to after this academic semester).
Annorex, thanks for the links. I'm hoping it doesn't come to the point where it involves lawyers. It sucks that it took this event for me to understand just important it is to have someone on a lease. One of the ED Attendings I work with suggested that I should just suffer until the end of the lease (July) because it isn't worth my time or effort to fight this. Then at the end of the lease, just move out and be prepared to lose the deposit. He said not to worry about the money because I'll always have the opportunity to earn that money back. I think I'm going to take that advice. In the meantime, just kill them with kindness - I guess.
Tomcat, thanks for the pdf. I'd like to think that my state's laws are similar to VA's. But again, I don't want to get the law involved unless absolutely necessary.
Update:
Roommate is well-behaved but has not mentioned the rent or selling her stuff. Also, there are apparently some issues going on with her bf. On my end: No written ultimatums given. No emails to the rental company. I will send them a notice that I plan to move out in the near future.
Thanks to everyone who read and/or commented.
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I live with a roommate who is not on the lease. It's a long story - the guy who lived here before agreed to have her stay with us with no lease. She seemed ok and was paying on time. Guy left about 1 year ago, and I've been living with her since. I did not add her to the lease (I know .. very stupid of me) because it would cost $100. And she didn't want to spend that.
Here's the problem. She hasn't paid rent for March or April. And every time I ask her about it, she turns into the b-word from heck. At this point, I doubt I will be able to collect for May, June, or July.
The lease automatically renews in July, and I'd like to continue living here as it's very affordable and close to where I work.
What do I need to do at this point? I've heard from a coworker that I have to write a letter to her and explain why I want her out. And then she has 30 days to vacate if the rent is not paid. Is that correct?
Also, if I'm willing to just give up on collecting, can I have her automatically kicked out when the lease is due for renewal (July)? What would the process be?
The last option would be to move. I have found a few suitable places. Would that automatically kick her out as well?
Any help from folks involved in real estate would be appreciated.
Of course, that means the land owner has no legal right to get rent from her either, as there is no contract stating that she will pay rent at so and so time.
You don't need to write a letter to kick her out because she has no contract. The thing your coworker talks about is a common feature in lease contracts and, afaik, required by the law. Basically, you must give a notice to someone that you intend to kick them out and give them reasonable time to look for a new place to stay.
So, basically it comes down to this-
If you are the land owner/legal owner of the property, then you are not obligated anything to her. But because she signed no lease, she is not obligated anything to you either. Just kick her out.
If you are renting a property and the land owner isn't aware of her existence on the property, then you can get in trouble. Land owners generally don't like people subleasing/doing any living on a property that doesn't involve a lease/contract with them because said people are not liable to anything done within the property. Because they're under no contract. In short, whatever the people does, the land owner can be liable to as well. Many contracts specifically waive this portion out, leaving responsibility in the hands of the people with the lease.
Thanks for the reply.
I am renting the place from a rental company. By the way, the house has 3 bedrooms, so space isn't an issue.
The lease does say that on one other than those on the lease are permitted to live at the house, she (owner) has told me verbally that it's all right. The owner of the company knows about her and has said that as long as she gets the rent money, then she's happy. I've already paid through the end of July, so there's no risk of me getting evicted. I'd rather not get the rental company involved if it's possible.
I have started to write a letter that more or less describes the situation. Would June 1 be an appropriate ultimatum date?
Sorry for the barrage of questions. I just want this dealt with as swiftly (and with little drama / potential dangers) as possible.
Lesson for all of you out there: do not allow someone to live with you with no lease.
I would try to get the rental company involved if you're assured that they won't do anything to you. It will be much easier and cleaner than you handling things alone. Given what you've written of her, it sounds like she's not the most... agreeable person around. It is always important to take into consideration unpredictable actions from people.
If they are a rental company, then they must have some experience with these types of situations and can help you.
My impression from that experience was that informal arrangements could be construed as a binding legal agreement. i.e., accepting rent from a resident could provide all tenant rights.
I'm not a lawyer and not familiar with tenant rights in your city/state (nor do I even know which state that is), so I can't provide better advice than suggesting you reach out to someone who does have that experience. You may also want to read the local eviction guidelines - I'm making a (not necessarily accurate) assumption that they would apply.
Moving out is not a good solution, because it doesn't necessarily force her to move out, and you'll be responsible to the rental company for anything she does, including additional rent and loss of deposits and whatever other fees if she refuses to move.
And yes, subletting (or subleasing) is a bad idea. Not only because of situations like this, but because in some states or municipalities, it's actually illegal.
Take a look at this, it has resources at the bottom that might help you:
http://rhol.com/csu/evictions/default.asp
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In case I didn't specify earlier, I've been paying the rent in full on time every month (and most of the times ahead of time). Then I'd collect from the roommate.
Yesterday, I spoke to her about the rent again. I didn't give her the letter I had written. She was more approachable this time. Later I found her taking pictures of her stuff (game machines, collectibles, etc). She said she's going to sell off some of her stuff to make rent by the end of the week. Some of the stuff were gifts (like from parents and her bf). And then she cried. Now I feel bad.
I do plan to get the rental company involved. I will write them an email later in the week just to highlight my frustrations with the rent situation. I'm sure they'll understand, as they normally only have contact with me. I'd also like to let them know that when the lease renews, I would like to have her move out or I will move out. Do you guys think this would be ok?
Sorry if this message sounds choppy. I had a very rough ER shift last night.
You shouldn't feel bad for her. I suspected that she had money issues if she was paying rent on time previously and just stopped suddenly. But that doesn't permit her to not tell you about the situation and attempt to work out a solution. What she did was wrong and it's good that you put your foot down on it.
No need to voice frustrations or make ultimatums or anything. Just ask them for any help they can provide if she doesn't willingly move out or restart paying the rent.
If she's not on the lease, then the rental company isn't going to have any legal obligation to do anything to help you with this, will likely not get involved as long as your rent is paid & will legally hold you responsible for anything your roommate does. The roommate is your problem & the vast majority of landlords will just remind you of that if you ask for their help. You may need to start eviction processes yourself... & because of that, the only real advice you'd be able to find here is to get in touch with a lawyer.
http://www.laborlawtalk.com/forum.php --> I'd suggest posting your question in the Landlord & Tenant Law sub on this forum. I've gotten good advice from that forum's staff on a number of legal issues in the past. They may also be able to refer you to a lawyer in your area who may be able to help for little or no money.
I can't stress this enough: if you have a potential legal issue, 99.9% of forum posters here aren't in a position to provide legal assistance/advice, let alone actual legal advice. You're going to need a lawyer's assistance, if not for actual court filings to get the roommate out, then at least for advice on how to proceed.
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In law, even seemingly insignificant facts can completely turn the case from one side to another, and there's no way to fully know all the facts unless one of us gets to talk to you in person.
Every state's law is different, and leases are governed by state law. I could go into the law of leases here, but that's not going to be the most helpful to you.
In fact it is more likely to inadvertantly lead you astray.
So the best advice is to talk to a lawyer in your area. I don't know what state you live in, but here in Virginia, there are numbers you can call, and the state has posted on its website a layperson accessible pdf of the state laws concerning leases.
Look for something like this with respect to your state. http://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/HomelessnesstoHomeownership/PDFs/Landlord_Tenant_Handbook.pdf
In the PDF is a table of numbers to legal aid you can call to ask for more help. Again, this is for Virginia. But hopefully your state has something like this as well.
Annorex, thanks for the links. I'm hoping it doesn't come to the point where it involves lawyers. It sucks that it took this event for me to understand just important it is to have someone on a lease. One of the ED Attendings I work with suggested that I should just suffer until the end of the lease (July) because it isn't worth my time or effort to fight this. Then at the end of the lease, just move out and be prepared to lose the deposit. He said not to worry about the money because I'll always have the opportunity to earn that money back. I think I'm going to take that advice. In the meantime, just kill them with kindness - I guess.
Tomcat, thanks for the pdf. I'd like to think that my state's laws are similar to VA's. But again, I don't want to get the law involved unless absolutely necessary.
Update:
Roommate is well-behaved but has not mentioned the rent or selling her stuff. Also, there are apparently some issues going on with her bf. On my end: No written ultimatums given. No emails to the rental company. I will send them a notice that I plan to move out in the near future.
Thanks to everyone who read and/or commented.