The difference is that one is assault in the heat of the moment, and the other is cold-blooded assault. I completely agree that with any form of discipline the child needs to understand why it is being administered, but I disagree that violence should ever be a parenting tool.
What kind of methods of punishment do you suggest then?
I don't particularly get why physical trauma/pain is considered worse than, say, mental trauma/pain as a result of having things taken away from you or being sent to your room for extended periods.
It's been a while since I read up on it, but when I did, the conclusions I found were that violent discipline might (but not always!) increase short-term compliance, but it decreased long-term compliance, and also decreased trust in the parents.
It could be because the child didn't accept the punishment.
As I wrote to Jay13x, I don't think punishment works in general. And if they do work, then it's because the child accepts the punishment and believes that he/she deserves it.
It could also because the parent isn't actually using corporeal punishment as a teaching tool, but rather something they do out of anger.
So, I vaguely knew about some child abuse case involving some NFL player, but I didn't bother looking at the news until I randomly clicked on a news article.
So, Adrian Peterson of the Minnesota Vikings is indicted for child abuse because he hit his son with a switch Source and the pictures are supposedly graphic.
Now, as someone who grew up in S. Korea and thus with corporeal punishment, I'm quite stupefied. I literally don't know what to think.
Was my parents wrong to use corporeal punishment on me? Am I broken for having received corporeal punishment?
I have an understanding of why corporeal punishment is "frowned upon" (clearly it's far more than that now), but isn't there a difference between this and actual, bonafide child abuse?
I suppose this goes into a more general issue- I remember reading an article recently about neighbors calling the police on some woman because she let her 6 year go play outside without supervision.
Are certain actions simply just plainly wrong now? Do circumstances no longer matter? Because child kidnapping does occur, all children MUST be supervised at ALL times? And are ALL parents who allow their children to play unsupervised doing something wrong?
What about corporeal punishment? Are ALL parents who use corporeal punishment on their children wrong?
I'm worried because I'm pretty darned certain I'll let my future children play outside without supervision. I'm pretty sure, if my wife allows it, that I'll use corporeal punishment as I've experienced it if the circumstances require it.
Am I just plain wrong for even thinking these?
1. It's Corporal Punishment, like the military rank. Corporeal means tangible in a manner often used to distinguish ghosts and spirits from tangible matter and reality.
2. My parents beat me quite often. Were they wrong? Am I broken? No. But I don't think it was effective on me, and it certainly left some lasting psychological scars. As a method of parenting,
I will not be employing such methods on my children. As for your case? That depends on your personality and experiences. I would say that some would definitely respond better to corporal punishment than I did.
And perhaps somewhere out there, there is some kid who really needs it. (I often see the hypothetical asserted is that somewhere out there is a kid so bad, so thick-headed that he/she will not respond to anything but corporal punishment.) But my personal opinion is that the line goes too easily into abuse. Too often is it done out of anger. At this point in my life, I consider it grossly uncivilized.
3. Watch for changing attitudes towards parenting. You can fight or argue against those changing standards. You can most certainly disagree with those changing standards. My parents let me play, wander around, and explore all the time. I think that was a good thing for a child. But the fact is these days, people are more willing to call the police if they see children randomly wandering around the neighborhood. That is something every parent should be mindful of regardless of whether they agree or disagree. You do not want child services or the government giving you a phone call.
1. It's Corporal Punishment, like the military rank. Corporeal means tangible in a manner often used to distinguish ghosts and spirits from tangible matter and reality.
Thanks. For some reason I blinded myself to the proper wording even when I wikied it. I don't know what happened!
2. My parents beat me quite often. Were they wrong? Am I broken? No. But I don't think it was effective on me, and it certainly left some lasting psychological scars. As a method of parenting,
I will not be employing such methods on my children. As for your case? That depends on your personality and experiences. I would say that some would definitely respond better to corporal punishment than I did.
And perhaps somewhere out there, there is some kid who really needs it. (I often see the hypothetical asserted is that somewhere out there is a kid so bad, so thick-headed that he/she will not respond to anything but corporal punishment.) But my personal opinion is that the line goes too easily into abuse. Too often is it done out of anger. At this point in my life, I consider it grossly uncivilized.
What if a parent puts their kid in time-out for 1+ hour out of anger?
Or calmly and purposely puts them in time-out for the entire day and only lets them interact with people when they eat but nothing else?
3. Watch for changing attitudes towards parenting. You can fight or argue against those changing standards. You can most certainly disagree with those changing standards. My parents let me play, wander around, and explore all the time. I think that was a good thing for a child. But the fact is these days, people are more willing to call the police if they see children randomly wandering around the neighborhood. That is something every parent should be mindful of regardless of whether they agree or disagree. You do not want child services or the government giving you a phone call.
What if a parent puts their kid in time-out for 1+ hour out of anger?
Or calmly and purposely puts them in time-out for the entire day and only lets them interact with people when they eat but nothing else?
[quote from="TomCat26 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/water-cooler-talk/572984-the-whole-thing-with-adrian-peterson-of-the?comment=27"]
3. Watch for changing attitudes towards parenting. You can fight or argue against those changing standards. You can most certainly disagree with those changing standards. My parents let me play, wander around, and explore all the time. I think that was a good thing for a child. But the fact is these days, people are more willing to call the police if they see children randomly wandering around the neighborhood. That is something every parent should be mindful of regardless of whether they agree or disagree. You do not want child services or the government giving you a phone call.
This sounds far too totalitarian for my taste.
2. I can't really opine on the time-out as a solution. I do think however that parents must teach their children how and why what they did was wrong, even if the wrong appears self evident to a normal adult.
3. I agree, and I'm not speaking in favor of the current state of affairs. Rather it's a sad acknowledgment of how things have changed and my thoughts on how to steer around trouble in one's family life in this day and age.
2. I can't really opine on the time-out as a solution. I do think however that parents must teach their children how and why what they did was wrong, even if the wrong appears self evident to a normal adult.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
I don't get why corporal punishment is considered just wrong. Afaik, many of these studies rely on self-reported information. It could very well be that the parents aren't actually using the punishment as a teaching method. It could be that the parents aren't explaining to their children why they're being punished in such a manner.
And, frankly speaking, I don't get the difference between a parent placing their child in time-out out of anger and without explaining why and a parent spanking or using a switch on their child out of anger and without explaining why.
I would say that it is all abuse. The thought I have about physical abuse is what the family is like. sterotypically I see white trash as my visual. And the intelligence level of white trash isn't the best so I'd guess the parenting skills aren't the best so there aren't these associations being created. Non-violence is more closely associated with intelligence which would theoretically have better parenting skills.
I guess if these "studies" are actual experiments then I would take it more seriously but if it is just opinions and recalled accounts then to me it means little because of the vast differences in familial structures. Any Punishment out of anger or not might work, might not. It is all dependant on if the punishment is excepted by the punished and a proper association between the wrong behavior and punishment. At an older age comes with understanding.
What kind of methods of punishment do you suggest then?
I don't particularly get why physical trauma/pain is considered worse than, say, mental trauma/pain as a result of having things taken away from you or being sent to your room for extended periods.
It could be because the child didn't accept the punishment.
As I wrote to Jay13x, I don't think punishment works in general. And if they do work, then it's because the child accepts the punishment and believes that he/she deserves it.
It could also because the parent isn't actually using corporeal punishment as a teaching tool, but rather something they do out of anger.
1. It's Corporal Punishment, like the military rank. Corporeal means tangible in a manner often used to distinguish ghosts and spirits from tangible matter and reality.
2. My parents beat me quite often. Were they wrong? Am I broken? No. But I don't think it was effective on me, and it certainly left some lasting psychological scars. As a method of parenting,
I will not be employing such methods on my children. As for your case? That depends on your personality and experiences. I would say that some would definitely respond better to corporal punishment than I did.
And perhaps somewhere out there, there is some kid who really needs it. (I often see the hypothetical asserted is that somewhere out there is a kid so bad, so thick-headed that he/she will not respond to anything but corporal punishment.) But my personal opinion is that the line goes too easily into abuse. Too often is it done out of anger. At this point in my life, I consider it grossly uncivilized.
3. Watch for changing attitudes towards parenting. You can fight or argue against those changing standards. You can most certainly disagree with those changing standards. My parents let me play, wander around, and explore all the time. I think that was a good thing for a child. But the fact is these days, people are more willing to call the police if they see children randomly wandering around the neighborhood. That is something every parent should be mindful of regardless of whether they agree or disagree. You do not want child services or the government giving you a phone call.
Thanks. For some reason I blinded myself to the proper wording even when I wikied it. I don't know what happened!
What if a parent puts their kid in time-out for 1+ hour out of anger?
Or calmly and purposely puts them in time-out for the entire day and only lets them interact with people when they eat but nothing else?
This sounds far too totalitarian for my taste.
2. I can't really opine on the time-out as a solution. I do think however that parents must teach their children how and why what they did was wrong, even if the wrong appears self evident to a normal adult.
3. I agree, and I'm not speaking in favor of the current state of affairs. Rather it's a sad acknowledgment of how things have changed and my thoughts on how to steer around trouble in one's family life in this day and age.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
I don't get why corporal punishment is considered just wrong. Afaik, many of these studies rely on self-reported information. It could very well be that the parents aren't actually using the punishment as a teaching method. It could be that the parents aren't explaining to their children why they're being punished in such a manner.
And, frankly speaking, I don't get the difference between a parent placing their child in time-out out of anger and without explaining why and a parent spanking or using a switch on their child out of anger and without explaining why.
I guess if these "studies" are actual experiments then I would take it more seriously but if it is just opinions and recalled accounts then to me it means little because of the vast differences in familial structures. Any Punishment out of anger or not might work, might not. It is all dependant on if the punishment is excepted by the punished and a proper association between the wrong behavior and punishment. At an older age comes with understanding.
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