Stupid, aggravating kid. I hate it when people whine in the manner he did. He felt entitled to something that he couldn't have - simply because he acted a certain way - and he got pissy about it. Frankly, I blame society - we've bastardized social interactions to such a degree that one feels it necessary to act in a certain way to feel like they belong with their peers, when in reality, the only thing that will get you anywhere in this world is selfishness (to a degree). I hate people like him and I hate people like the ones that created him. Honestly, I'm disgusted that he was so weak-willed to stoop to what he did. I have a strong personality, myself, and would never succumb to self-pity to that degree.
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Frankly, I blame society we've bastardized social interactions to such a degree that one feels it necessary to act in a certain way to feel like they belong with their peers, when in reality, the only thing that will get you anywhere in this world is selfishness
Wait, you're saying that you blame society for this incident because what would have prevented this violence is if the person in question had been more selfish? I'm confused.
I don't find anything particularly interesting about someone completely self-absorbed and sociopathic.
So Elliot Rodger is not more "interesting" as opposed to the totally average person who is neither sociopathic nor self-absorbed?
By definition, "interesting" is unusual and sociopathy is a characteristic of distinction. While we may not want to glorify sociopathic tendencies, this does not make sociopaths equally interesting as the average non-sociopathic individual. Certainly if there were nothing of interest of Elliot Rodgers, media outlets would not publish so many articles about him.
This Elliot Rodger is such a fascinating person. Such a fascinating, deluded, comical, sad, sad product of the Western culture. What do you think?
I wouldn't bother reading too deeply into how psychopaths explain themselves.
In regards to "interestingness", the importance is that the explanation Rodger gave feels legitimate to him and not you of I. (If Rodger did not feel strongly about it and simply wanted to shoot people for the hell of it, he would not compel himself to write a 100+ page long manifesto.) It is how Rodger came to this conclusion as well as the conclusion itself that is "fascinating".
In regards to "interestingness", the importance is that the explanation Rodger gave feels legitimate to him and not you of I. (If Rodger did not feel strongly about it and simply wanted to shoot people for the hell of it, he would not compel himself to write a 100+ page long manifesto.) It is how Rodger came to this conclusion as well as the conclusion itself that is "fascinating".
It would be interesting it if it had anything beyond the fundamental theme of "I deserve everything in the world and the world can go to hell because it didn't give me what I deserved"
That being said, I haven't read it. I've only read excerpts that show up here and there in news articles.
So Elliot Rodger is not more "interesting" as opposed to the totally average person who is neither sociopathic nor self-absorbed?
No. I don't find a completely selfish, self-absorbed person fascinating at all, which is exactly what that article depicts him as being.
But I've spoken my piece. What is it that you find fascinating about him?
He has a very different way of thinking. I find that to be fascinating. I am the kind of person that likes to know how things tick... what makes the doodad do what it does. This is an extension of that desire. What made this young man decide that he needed to do what he did? Not only for the sake of curiosity but to better prevent similar situations like it from happening in the future.
From what I have seen so far this guy put a ton of emphasis on Money. A lot of people are focusing on his views of women, but under that there is a constant reference to how his life would be so much better if he was rich. He seemed to believe that all of his problems would just go away if he had money. Not only that but I think that belief was self perpetuating. He believed that nobody would like him because he did not have money... because of that he probably acted in such a way that nobody would want to be around him.
Experts in fields of criminology and psychology will probably write entire books on this guy. How can that not be evidence of a subject that is at the very least interesting to someone?
He has a very different way of thinking. I find that to be fascinating. I am the kind of person that likes to know how things tick... what makes the doodad do what it does.
This. I read >80% of Rodger's manifesto. I went in thinking that it was going to be mostly philosophical crap about how women should service men or something like that and that I was just going to skim through a few pages; but, it turned out to be mostly about his life and it is a very interesting life story. This is coming from a person who hasn't read a book for leisure in years and years.
I spent a couple hours reading this. I actually found many of his experiences quite relatable to my own with a bunch of key differences such as I never had thoughts of mass murder or extreme jealousy toward others (esp. not because they slept with attractive women). The manifesto is so good that I think most of it can be published or turned into a movie. The ending gets increasingly sadistic and probably wouldn't appeal to the mass market.
I'm sure most of us aren't going to read his manifesto; though, I think it was an excellent read and would highly recommend it. Out of respect for the individuals who do, I will discuss what I've discerned through it in spoiler tags.
After reading his manifesto, the media was actually fairly spot on about Rodger and there isn't as much sensationalism as you'd expect, which is pretty crazy. He really DID go insane from the lack of sex with women and not about absence of money or social interaction or anything of the sort. 90% of the time he's talking about how he wants to have sex with women and only 10% of the time Rodger discusses money.
Rodger's obsession with having sex with women consumed him. He would have crying fits over other people talking about how they lost their virginity at a young age. Then he would throw insults and act very bitterly toward these individuals. Rodger could not stand to be around couples. He would despise attractive women with boyfriends to the point where he would be in college and drop most of his courses just because there were attractive women in the class with boyfriends or popular guys hitting on popular girls or couples.
Rodger actually was a fairly amiable person and had an active social life. He was not a loner; but, his friends shunned him during his early 20's for the disturbing things he said about torturing and punishing attractive women and the men who had sex with them. His best friend James was supportive of him his whole life; but, had enough of him one day after he cursed off an attractive couple at a Panda Express and stormed out the restaurant. After, he told his friend how he wanted to kill the people.
He had two other friends he hung out with often as well: Phillip and Addison. Rodger's relationship with Addison is particularly intriguing because the two had a frenemy relationship. Addison supposed broke into the group of "popular" kids in his high school and Rodger became very hostile toward him for it. Addison even deleted Rodger on Facebook. Still, they hung out and on their last time hanging out together, after they had somewhat reconciled, Addison sensed something might be wrong and warned Rodger not to do anything stupid.
The climax/turning point of the story is the night when Rodger crashes a party, gets wasted, and could not endure the couples there. He walks outside to be alone and he sees a group of attractive guys and girls having fun on a ledge and the thought of them having sex enraged him in his drunken stupor. First, he confronts the kids. After some back and forth, he decides he needs to push the kids off the ledge and he targets the girls. He stumbles and fails miserably and, instead, the guys beat him up and throw Rodger off the ledge.
The ledge was ~10 ft and Rodger breaks a leg. After, he realizes that the gold chain his grandmother gave him that he was wearing was missing as well as his Armani(?) sunglasses. He limps back to the party house to demand his possessions. The kids there mock him and call him names and then beat him to a bloody pulp until some onlookers on the street intervened and force them to stop. That was probably the turning point that drove him to the "Day of Retribution".
There were other interesting things in the manifesto as well. It was just such a compelling story. Rodger's relationship with his mother and stepmother, his obsession over the lottery thinking it was his only redemption, and his relationship with outgoing kid Max Bonon that was nice to him were other aspects of note.
I'm sure most of us aren't going to read his manifesto; though, I think it was an excellent read and would highly recommend it. Out of respect for the individuals who do, I will discuss what I've discerned through it in spoiler tags.
After reading his manifesto, the media was actually fairly spot on about Rodger and there isn't as much sensationalism as you'd expect, which is pretty crazy. He really DID go insane from the lack of sex with women and not about absence of money or social interaction or anything of the sort. 90% of the time he's talking about how he wants to have sex with women and only 10% of the time Rodger discusses money.
Rodger's obsession with having sex with women consumed him. He would have crying fits over other people talking about how they lost their virginity at a young age. Then he would throw insults and act very bitterly toward these individuals. Rodger could not stand to be around couples. He would despise attractive women with boyfriends to the point where he would be in college and drop most of his courses just because there were attractive women in the class with boyfriends or popular guys hitting on popular girls or couples.
Rodger actually was a fairly amiable person and had an active social life. He was not a loner; but, his friends shunned him during his early 20's for the disturbing things he said about torturing and punishing attractive women and the men who had sex with them. His best friend James was supportive of him his whole life; but, had enough of him one day after he cursed off an attractive couple at a Panda Express and stormed out the restaurant. After, he told his friend how he wanted to kill the people.
He had two other friends he hung out with as well: Phillip and Addison.
Based on this spoiler I can only imagine how upset he would get watching 99% of the most popular romcoms, I mean nearly every one is about some extremely attractive girl going for some random guy. In some cases the guy is far less attractive or will be way below her league, for a number of reasons.
He has a very different way of thinking. I find that to be fascinating. I am the kind of person that likes to know how things tick... what makes the doodad do what it does. This is an extension of that desire. What made this young man decide that he needed to do what he did? Not only for the sake of curiosity but to better prevent similar situations like it from happening in the future.
Yes. Psychopaths have a different way of thinking. That's why they're psychopaths. They think on a different manner than normal people do.
I still don't know why that makes it interesting. It would be interesting if it had some validity and actual thought behind it that I can think on and wrestle with. But if it amounts to nothing more than ramblings and attempts at self-justification, then how is it interesting?
I think it was an excellent read and would highly recommend it.
I'm curious why you think it's an excellent read. I read the first 28 pages. I don't have time to read more but will do so later when I come back home, if nothing else than to be able to have a conversation about it.
But, as far as I can tell, he either had very good memory and actually remembered everything, or much of this is fabricated crap meant to elicit sympathy for him.
He has a very different way of thinking. I find that to be fascinating. I am the kind of person that likes to know how things tick... what makes the doodad do what it does. This is an extension of that desire. What made this young man decide that he needed to do what he did? Not only for the sake of curiosity but to better prevent similar situations like it from happening in the future.
Yes. Psychopaths have a different way of thinking. That's why they're psychopaths. They think on a different manner than normal people do.
I still don't know why that makes it interesting. It would be interesting if it had some validity and actual thought behind it that I can think on and wrestle with. But if it amounts to nothing more than ramblings and attempts at self-justification, then how is it interesting?
I have read the first 30ish pages and it is far from ramblings. These are very coherent thoughts. While what he did makes absolutely no sense to you and me, it made perfect sense to him. So what would it take to make an otherwise normal person to think the way he does? Was there a particular event that started this spiral or a perfect storm of experiences plus personality that brought him to his conclusion?
What I can tell you from what I have read is it seems to me that this was a kid that placed approval from his peers above all else. Early in life he realized that some kids were cool and some were not cool. He had an intense desire to be part of the cool kids no matter what it took. Another thing I noticed is most of the writing is very calm and collected... then occasionally he'll mention a name that strikes a nerve within himself and the calmness is broken for no reason other than to refer to this other person as a prick or a jerk. Is that a symptom of his mental health or a symptom of spending years competing with and loathing these individuals?
Most young people feel that desire to be popular. What about him turned that desire deadly?
There is plenty of thought and validity to his thoughts that we can think about and wrestle with. Have you ever been in a debate and stopped for a moment to just try to see the other side of the debate from the eyes of that side's supporters? For example... have you ever tried to look at the gay marriage debate from the side you oppose? One side sees religion as silly myth definitely not something to base law on, the other side sees it as absolute truth and disregarding it having the penalty of eternal damnation... You just have to put aside your own opinions for a moment and try to see his thoughts from his view. While some of the events in his story may seem insignificant to us, they clearly meant a lot to him.
What I can tell you from what I have read is it seems to me that this was a kid that placed approval from his peers above all else. Early in life he realized that some kids were cool and some were not cool. He had an intense desire to be part of the cool kids no matter what it took.
You should remember that most kids back in middle school are like this. I certainly was. My life experience, at least when it comes to making friends and meeting women, match up with his almost perfectly.
Occasionally, it is not the experiences that turn people "bad". It is the very fact that there is something wrong with their head.
Another thing I noticed is most of the writing is very calm and collected... then occasionally he'll mention a name that strikes a nerve within himself and the calmness is broken for no reason other than to refer to this other person as a prick or a jerk. Is that a symptom of his mental health or a symptom of spending years competing with and loathing these individuals?
Do keep in mind that what he wrote is 141 pages long and, as far as I can tell, has no obvious typos or grammar mistakes. I am quite certain he spent a lot of time thinking on what he wrote and wrote everything very deliberately.
As such, the calmness and the "spikes" are all likely deliberate. I am leaning towards the idea that he wrote this in order to make himself look good and make his views resonate with others and give him the best light possible.
Given that people (on this forum and otherwise) seem to be saying that they can identify with him, it seems to be working.
But also keep in mind that what he describes is something many, many people go through in their adolescent. That's what makes his actions and beliefs so... peculiar, for lack of a better term right now. Based on the 28 pages I've read, his life experience doesn't go outside of what many other affluent children experience.
There is plenty of thought and validity to his thoughts that we can think about and wrestle with. Have you ever been in a debate and stopped for a moment to just try to see the other side of the debate from the eyes of that side's supporters?
Mate. I do this with most every issues I think about. Heck, I debate only because I want to hear opinions that I couldn't come up with myself. I don't particularly believe that I can convince others of my opinion. Rather, I WANT to be convinced to think otherwise.
I have noticed a couple spelling and grammatical mistakes. (There was a spot where it was obvious just beyond where you are). The fact that many kids grow up having similar feelings is part of what makes this so interesting. What about him or his experiences was different? Do we believe that he is one of the only male's to grow up in the US with that kind of something wrong in his head? Or could it be a mixture of events and mental instability? It's interesting that you mention him trying to intentionally write it in such a way to present himself in a good light, but as I read it it comes across as very truthful. I have not felt particularly sorry for him, nor do I identify with him in many ways. He seemed to grow up feeling a constant need to be seen as the "best" or at the very least "cool", and at the same time was extremely timid and emotional. This was a kid that had his mom setup all of his play dates and also was sent into crying fits for seemingly very minor events to a regular person. I doubt many people can identify with that aspect of his life.
Heck, you claim it's not interesting... yet you are reading it. If it's not interesting why are you reading it?
I spent a couple hours reading this. I actually found many of his experiences quite relatable to my own
What did you find relatable? Was it:
- Guy feels insecure about not being able to get a date
- Guy resents people who have the money to afford things he can't
- Guy feels if he were richer (or just in general were more than who he is), girls would like him
- Guy feels he is hopeless and will never be able to attract women because he is fundamentally wrong
- Guy feels he isn't really living
- Guy feels the world is rigged against him and/or all of his problems are entirely due to the harmful actions of others
If so, you relate to him because everyone goes through all of that. They're called "insecurities," and everyone has them. Everybody gets down on themselves, everyone sometimes feels the world is out to get them, everyone from time to time behaves like a five-year-old.
The difference is that most of us, at some point, get over ourselves because we're not completely self-absorbed. We don't stay in that mindset that we're the only person that matters.
with a bunch of key differences such as I never had thoughts of mass murder or extreme jealousy toward others (esp. not because they slept with attractive women).
I am leaning towards the idea that he wrote this in order to make himself look good and make his views resonate with others and give him the best light possible.
It is possible and Rodger does come off sympathetic in his childhood; but, as he grows older, he begins to treat those who have been good to him harshly as well as acts out against complete strangers. Plus, he's clearly racist. So even if the entire manifesto is contrived, I don't think the objective was necessarily to cast himself in a positive light.
Or if the manifesto was contrived to cast himself in a positive light, then you are clearly giving him too much credit as Rodger does not possess the EQ to pull such manipulation off with all the off putting things he says.
It's interesting that you mention him trying to intentionally write it in such a way to present himself in a good light, but as I read it it comes across as very truthful.
... You find this truthful?
"One friend who I met through a chat room suddenly emailed me pictures of beautiful naked girls... When I looked at the pictures, I was shocked beyond words... the sight filled me with strong and overwhelming emotions. I didn't know what was happening to me. Was it the first inkling of sexual desire in my body? I was traumatized. My childhood was fading away. Ominous fear swept over me, and I stopped talking to that person."
It's on the tail-end of pg. 30. I shortened it to get the point I wanted across.
Look at how frequently he brings up the end of his childhood and the crossing over into adulthood implicit within it. Anyone who spent time actually listening to their teacher in their English class would immediately notice the attempt to create a theme.
No. The more I read this, the more I believe this is artificial.
I doubt many people can identify with that aspect of his life.
You're focusing on what you feel to be the "weirdest" of the irregularities. But, as Highroller pointed out, virtually all of his issues are things that most normal boys and young adults face at one point or another in their lives. Some face them in a far greater magnitude than others.
Heck, you claim it's not interesting... yet you are reading it. If it's not interesting why are you reading it?
So that I can talk to Resonance about him. Also because Resonance wrote "I think it was an excellent read and would highly recommend it." and I'm curious why he feels that way.
It is possible and Rodger does come off sympathetic in his childhood; but, as he grows older, he begins to treat those who have been good to him harshly as well as acts out against complete strangers. Plus, he's clearly racist. So even if the entire manifesto is contrived, I don't think the objective was necessarily to cast himself in a positive light.
I haven't gotten that far. I will let you know later.
But if this really is him trying to portray himself as a victim of adulthood and a world that detests him, then I'm pretty sure he'll say that none of that is his fault, and that the world is evil for turning him into what he became.
Oh wait. He did. At the very first two passages he wrote. Particularly "humanity forced my hand, and this story will explain why" and "all of my suffering on this world has been at the hands of humanity, particularly women"
The fact that he writes about how much of a monster he is later is irrelevant. He has already written in the first bloody page that none of this is his fault.
Or if the manifesto was contrived to cast himself in a positive light, then you are clearly giving him too much credit as Rodger does not possess the EQ to pull such manipulation off with all the off putting things he says.
You let me know how when you figure out how you determined his EQ and the general idea of the necessary EQ # to write a (poorly written) novel/autobiography.
The most interesting thing about this guy is how he's held a mirror up to the misogyny of society. You can see it with the responses we're getting: it's creepy how many men are saying they empathize with him.
The dude was the son of a famous director and wanted for very little, aside from women, who he thought he was entitled to. That's the crux of his manifesto, how much he hated women because he felt he deserved their attention and affection but as he couldn't compel them with his wealth he decided to get "revenge".
"I will punish all of you for it. (laughs) On the day of retribution I'm going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB. And I will slaughter every spoiled, stuck-up, blond **** I see inside there. All those girls I've desired so much, they would have all rejected me and looked down upon me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance towards them (scoffs) while they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes. I'll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you.
You will finally see that I am in truth the superior one. The true alpha male. (laughs) Yes. After I've annihilated every single girl in the sorority house, I will take to the streets of Isla Vista and slay every single person I see there. All those popular kids who live such lives of hedonistic pleasures while I've had to rot in loneliness for all these years. They've all looked down upon me every time I tried to go out and join them, they've all treated me like a mouse."
This lower part is from his full manifesto and is quoted here.
"Women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made for them by rational men of intelligence . . . Women have more power in human society than they deserve, all because of sex. There is no creature more evil and depraved than the human female."
So yeah, the dude got sad because he couldn't get everything he felt he deserved (because he felt he deserved access to other people's bodies, possibly also because he didn't actually approach people to ask them out, just hated from a distance) and decided killing people was a good reaction. Probably because he was an MRA, and kept ignoring his family and therapists to seek out other angry misogynists to get reassurance about his righteousness.
About the only good thing about this latest shooting is that it has encouraged women to speak out about misogyny in society (check the twitter hashtag #YesAllWomen for more examples than I can write out. There's some worrying stuff.
This also covers some reactions, but it's a single long read rather than a series of small comments.
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The most interesting thing about this guy is how he's held a mirror up to the misogyny of society. You can see it with the responses we're getting: it's creepy how many men are saying they empathize with him.
Resonance & Fluffy Bunny going on about how compelling his manifesto is and stuff.
There's also stuff on the nets more generally. Hang tight while I grab the screenshot.
EDIT: So pretty much all of the stuff related to this guy keeps getting removed from the net, but there were pages up hailing him as a "hero for downtrodden men" and ***** like that. LinkOther link
The Facebook page reads: "Feminists, whether you like it or not, you are the cause of this incident. You have empowered women to essentially bully and reject people, and in this case it would seem that this happened to some poor kid with Autism. A generation of self important narcissistic cows have been raised rather than the nicer ladies of the previous generations."
Society is partly to blame for creating a lot of pressure to have a girlfriend. But it's not women's fault, if anything women are the biggest victim since as a result they have to deal with people like Elliot Rodger.
Society is partly to blame for creating a lot of pressure to have a girlfriend. But it's not women's fault, if anything women are the biggest victim since as a result they have to deal with people like Elliot Rodger.
No, it's not society's fault, even if there is this pressure to be in a relationship. Furthermore: I'd say that the biggest victims are still those shot and the families and friends of those people.
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/25/justice/california-shooting-revelations/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
This Elliot Rodger is such a fascinating person. Such a fascinating, deluded, comical, sad, sad product of the Western culture. What do you think?
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No, he was just a psychopath.
I wouldn't bother reading too deeply into how psychopaths explain themselves.
I don't find anything particularly interesting about someone completely self-absorbed and sociopathic.
Wait, you're saying that you blame society for this incident because what would have prevented this violence is if the person in question had been more selfish? I'm confused.
By definition, "interesting" is unusual and sociopathy is a characteristic of distinction. While we may not want to glorify sociopathic tendencies, this does not make sociopaths equally interesting as the average non-sociopathic individual. Certainly if there were nothing of interest of Elliot Rodgers, media outlets would not publish so many articles about him.
In regards to "interestingness", the importance is that the explanation Rodger gave feels legitimate to him and not you of I. (If Rodger did not feel strongly about it and simply wanted to shoot people for the hell of it, he would not compel himself to write a 100+ page long manifesto.) It is how Rodger came to this conclusion as well as the conclusion itself that is "fascinating".
It would be interesting it if it had anything beyond the fundamental theme of "I deserve everything in the world and the world can go to hell because it didn't give me what I deserved"
That being said, I haven't read it. I've only read excerpts that show up here and there in news articles.
But I've spoken my piece. What is it that you find fascinating about him?
He has a very different way of thinking. I find that to be fascinating. I am the kind of person that likes to know how things tick... what makes the doodad do what it does. This is an extension of that desire. What made this young man decide that he needed to do what he did? Not only for the sake of curiosity but to better prevent similar situations like it from happening in the future.
From what I have seen so far this guy put a ton of emphasis on Money. A lot of people are focusing on his views of women, but under that there is a constant reference to how his life would be so much better if he was rich. He seemed to believe that all of his problems would just go away if he had money. Not only that but I think that belief was self perpetuating. He believed that nobody would like him because he did not have money... because of that he probably acted in such a way that nobody would want to be around him.
Experts in fields of criminology and psychology will probably write entire books on this guy. How can that not be evidence of a subject that is at the very least interesting to someone?
Here's the link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto
I spent a couple hours reading this. I actually found many of his experiences quite relatable to my own with a bunch of key differences such as I never had thoughts of mass murder or extreme jealousy toward others (esp. not because they slept with attractive women). The manifesto is so good that I think most of it can be published or turned into a movie. The ending gets increasingly sadistic and probably wouldn't appeal to the mass market.
I'm sure most of us aren't going to read his manifesto; though, I think it was an excellent read and would highly recommend it. Out of respect for the individuals who do, I will discuss what I've discerned through it in spoiler tags.
Rodger's obsession with having sex with women consumed him. He would have crying fits over other people talking about how they lost their virginity at a young age. Then he would throw insults and act very bitterly toward these individuals. Rodger could not stand to be around couples. He would despise attractive women with boyfriends to the point where he would be in college and drop most of his courses just because there were attractive women in the class with boyfriends or popular guys hitting on popular girls or couples.
Rodger actually was a fairly amiable person and had an active social life. He was not a loner; but, his friends shunned him during his early 20's for the disturbing things he said about torturing and punishing attractive women and the men who had sex with them. His best friend James was supportive of him his whole life; but, had enough of him one day after he cursed off an attractive couple at a Panda Express and stormed out the restaurant. After, he told his friend how he wanted to kill the people.
He had two other friends he hung out with often as well: Phillip and Addison. Rodger's relationship with Addison is particularly intriguing because the two had a frenemy relationship. Addison supposed broke into the group of "popular" kids in his high school and Rodger became very hostile toward him for it. Addison even deleted Rodger on Facebook. Still, they hung out and on their last time hanging out together, after they had somewhat reconciled, Addison sensed something might be wrong and warned Rodger not to do anything stupid.
The climax/turning point of the story is the night when Rodger crashes a party, gets wasted, and could not endure the couples there. He walks outside to be alone and he sees a group of attractive guys and girls having fun on a ledge and the thought of them having sex enraged him in his drunken stupor. First, he confronts the kids. After some back and forth, he decides he needs to push the kids off the ledge and he targets the girls. He stumbles and fails miserably and, instead, the guys beat him up and throw Rodger off the ledge.
The ledge was ~10 ft and Rodger breaks a leg. After, he realizes that the gold chain his grandmother gave him that he was wearing was missing as well as his Armani(?) sunglasses. He limps back to the party house to demand his possessions. The kids there mock him and call him names and then beat him to a bloody pulp until some onlookers on the street intervened and force them to stop. That was probably the turning point that drove him to the "Day of Retribution".
There were other interesting things in the manifesto as well. It was just such a compelling story. Rodger's relationship with his mother and stepmother, his obsession over the lottery thinking it was his only redemption, and his relationship with outgoing kid Max Bonon that was nice to him were other aspects of note.
Based on this spoiler I can only imagine how upset he would get watching 99% of the most popular romcoms, I mean nearly every one is about some extremely attractive girl going for some random guy. In some cases the guy is far less attractive or will be way below her league, for a number of reasons.
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Yes. Psychopaths have a different way of thinking. That's why they're psychopaths. They think on a different manner than normal people do.
I still don't know why that makes it interesting. It would be interesting if it had some validity and actual thought behind it that I can think on and wrestle with. But if it amounts to nothing more than ramblings and attempts at self-justification, then how is it interesting?
I'm curious why you think it's an excellent read. I read the first 28 pages. I don't have time to read more but will do so later when I come back home, if nothing else than to be able to have a conversation about it.
But, as far as I can tell, he either had very good memory and actually remembered everything, or much of this is fabricated crap meant to elicit sympathy for him.
I have read the first 30ish pages and it is far from ramblings. These are very coherent thoughts. While what he did makes absolutely no sense to you and me, it made perfect sense to him. So what would it take to make an otherwise normal person to think the way he does? Was there a particular event that started this spiral or a perfect storm of experiences plus personality that brought him to his conclusion?
What I can tell you from what I have read is it seems to me that this was a kid that placed approval from his peers above all else. Early in life he realized that some kids were cool and some were not cool. He had an intense desire to be part of the cool kids no matter what it took. Another thing I noticed is most of the writing is very calm and collected... then occasionally he'll mention a name that strikes a nerve within himself and the calmness is broken for no reason other than to refer to this other person as a prick or a jerk. Is that a symptom of his mental health or a symptom of spending years competing with and loathing these individuals?
Most young people feel that desire to be popular. What about him turned that desire deadly?
There is plenty of thought and validity to his thoughts that we can think about and wrestle with. Have you ever been in a debate and stopped for a moment to just try to see the other side of the debate from the eyes of that side's supporters? For example... have you ever tried to look at the gay marriage debate from the side you oppose? One side sees religion as silly myth definitely not something to base law on, the other side sees it as absolute truth and disregarding it having the penalty of eternal damnation... You just have to put aside your own opinions for a moment and try to see his thoughts from his view. While some of the events in his story may seem insignificant to us, they clearly meant a lot to him.
Just because it is coherent and thought out doesn't mean that it's not rambling or otherwise have a point to them.
That being said, yes, rambling is a wrong word to describe his writing.
You should remember that most kids back in middle school are like this. I certainly was. My life experience, at least when it comes to making friends and meeting women, match up with his almost perfectly.
Occasionally, it is not the experiences that turn people "bad". It is the very fact that there is something wrong with their head.
Do keep in mind that what he wrote is 141 pages long and, as far as I can tell, has no obvious typos or grammar mistakes. I am quite certain he spent a lot of time thinking on what he wrote and wrote everything very deliberately.
As such, the calmness and the "spikes" are all likely deliberate. I am leaning towards the idea that he wrote this in order to make himself look good and make his views resonate with others and give him the best light possible.
Given that people (on this forum and otherwise) seem to be saying that they can identify with him, it seems to be working.
But also keep in mind that what he describes is something many, many people go through in their adolescent. That's what makes his actions and beliefs so... peculiar, for lack of a better term right now. Based on the 28 pages I've read, his life experience doesn't go outside of what many other affluent children experience.
Mate. I do this with most every issues I think about. Heck, I debate only because I want to hear opinions that I couldn't come up with myself. I don't particularly believe that I can convince others of my opinion. Rather, I WANT to be convinced to think otherwise.
Heck, you claim it's not interesting... yet you are reading it. If it's not interesting why are you reading it?
- Guy feels insecure about not being able to get a date
- Guy resents people who have the money to afford things he can't
- Guy feels if he were richer (or just in general were more than who he is), girls would like him
- Guy feels he is hopeless and will never be able to attract women because he is fundamentally wrong
- Guy feels he isn't really living
- Guy feels the world is rigged against him and/or all of his problems are entirely due to the harmful actions of others
If so, you relate to him because everyone goes through all of that. They're called "insecurities," and everyone has them. Everybody gets down on themselves, everyone sometimes feels the world is out to get them, everyone from time to time behaves like a five-year-old.
The difference is that most of us, at some point, get over ourselves because we're not completely self-absorbed. We don't stay in that mindset that we're the only person that matters.
And that's a million times more interesting.
Or if the manifesto was contrived to cast himself in a positive light, then you are clearly giving him too much credit as Rodger does not possess the EQ to pull such manipulation off with all the off putting things he says.
... You find this truthful?
"One friend who I met through a chat room suddenly emailed me pictures of beautiful naked girls... When I looked at the pictures, I was shocked beyond words... the sight filled me with strong and overwhelming emotions. I didn't know what was happening to me. Was it the first inkling of sexual desire in my body? I was traumatized. My childhood was fading away. Ominous fear swept over me, and I stopped talking to that person."
It's on the tail-end of pg. 30. I shortened it to get the point I wanted across.
Look at how frequently he brings up the end of his childhood and the crossing over into adulthood implicit within it. Anyone who spent time actually listening to their teacher in their English class would immediately notice the attempt to create a theme.
No. The more I read this, the more I believe this is artificial.
You're focusing on what you feel to be the "weirdest" of the irregularities. But, as Highroller pointed out, virtually all of his issues are things that most normal boys and young adults face at one point or another in their lives. Some face them in a far greater magnitude than others.
So that I can talk to Resonance about him. Also because Resonance wrote "I think it was an excellent read and would highly recommend it." and I'm curious why he feels that way.
I haven't gotten that far. I will let you know later.
But if this really is him trying to portray himself as a victim of adulthood and a world that detests him, then I'm pretty sure he'll say that none of that is his fault, and that the world is evil for turning him into what he became.
Oh wait. He did. At the very first two passages he wrote. Particularly "humanity forced my hand, and this story will explain why" and "all of my suffering on this world has been at the hands of humanity, particularly women"
The fact that he writes about how much of a monster he is later is irrelevant. He has already written in the first bloody page that none of this is his fault.
You let me know how when you figure out how you determined his EQ and the general idea of the necessary EQ # to write a (poorly written) novel/autobiography.
The dude was the son of a famous director and wanted for very little, aside from women, who he thought he was entitled to. That's the crux of his manifesto, how much he hated women because he felt he deserved their attention and affection but as he couldn't compel them with his wealth he decided to get "revenge".
You will finally see that I am in truth the superior one. The true alpha male. (laughs) Yes. After I've annihilated every single girl in the sorority house, I will take to the streets of Isla Vista and slay every single person I see there. All those popular kids who live such lives of hedonistic pleasures while I've had to rot in loneliness for all these years. They've all looked down upon me every time I tried to go out and join them, they've all treated me like a mouse."
This lower part is from his full manifesto and is quoted here.
"Women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made for them by rational men of intelligence . . . Women have more power in human society than they deserve, all because of sex. There is no creature more evil and depraved than the human female."
Link
So yeah, the dude got sad because he couldn't get everything he felt he deserved (because he felt he deserved access to other people's bodies, possibly also because he didn't actually approach people to ask them out, just hated from a distance) and decided killing people was a good reaction. Probably because he was an MRA, and kept ignoring his family and therapists to seek out other angry misogynists to get reassurance about his righteousness.
About the only good thing about this latest shooting is that it has encouraged women to speak out about misogyny in society (check the twitter hashtag #YesAllWomen for more examples than I can write out. There's some worrying stuff.
This also covers some reactions, but it's a single long read rather than a series of small comments.
Art is life itself.
There's also stuff on the nets more generally. Hang tight while I grab the screenshot.
EDIT: So pretty much all of the stuff related to this guy keeps getting removed from the net, but there were pages up hailing him as a "hero for downtrodden men" and ***** like that. Link Other link
Source
EDIT: his videos seem to be back up but the comment threads got wiped when his stuff got taken down the first time.
Hell, just read my links from the first post then watch people climbing out of the woodwork to justify or defend his behavior.
Art is life itself.
Probably a far more dangerous force than any hatred against gays or jews or blacks or any other discrimination or racist beliefs in existence today.
Probably never going to die either, which is a damned shame.
No, it's not society's fault, even if there is this pressure to be in a relationship. Furthermore: I'd say that the biggest victims are still those shot and the families and friends of those people.