I'm thinking of making a Heroes vs Villains duel deck set based on Marvel/DC. Ideally both decks would be rainbow, but most of the heroes are monoW and the villains are monoB. What I need here is suggestions on characters, locations, events outside the obvious colors. If successful I'll post the finished result on the card-making forum.
Stuff I've already got. Leaving out W heroes and B villians because obvious. Some are multi. W: Magneto, Thunderbolt Ross, Zod, Harvey Dent U: Black Widow, Nick Fury, Martian Manhunter, Batman, Prof. X, Mystique, Bruce Banner B: Ghost Rider, R: Thor, Joker, Wolverine, G: Poison Ivy, Doomsday,
By nature this is going to swing back and forth between flavor and mechanics, so let's be cool about where this thread should be. Unless you're a mod, in which case do whatever.
^Batman is NOT R. Not in the least bit. The decisions he makes are rarely guided by his emotions. You're probably thinking of Bruce Wayne, who is more of a show that Batman is putting for the public.
I'm not so sure I'd call Doomsday G. Yes, he runs on his instincts to kill Superman, but he was created that way beyond nature. Think of zombies in Magic, for example. Most of the time their drive is just to eat people (a G trait), but they're still B since their creators are B. In that sense, Doomsday is UB with maybe a hint of W because his creators are that color.
According to MaRo, Wolverine is more G than R. He's more instinctive than emotional.
Anyway, suggestions.
Heroes
U: Hank Pym (Ant-Man) B: Punisher (as a hero), Deadpool (sometimes hero), Power Man (only saves people for money), Booster Gold, Blade R: Rocket Raccoon, Hank Pym (Yellowjacket) G: Black Panther, Squirrel Girl (lol), Groot
Villains
W: Ronan the Accuser, Kang the Conqueror, Punisher (as a villain) U: MODOK B: Deadpool (sometimes villain) R: Giganta, Carnage G: Galactus, Kraven the Hunter, Ra's al Ghul
^Batman is NOT R. Not in the least bit. The decisions he makes are rarely guided by his emotions. You're probably thinking of Bruce Wayne, who is more of a show that Batman is putting for the public.
I'm not so sure I'd call Doomsday G. Yes, he runs on his instincts to kill Superman, but he was created that way beyond nature. Think of zombies in Magic, for example. Most of the time their drive is just to eat people (a G trait), but they're still B since their creators are B. In that sense, Doomsday is UB with maybe a hint of W because his creators are that color.
According to MaRo, Wolverine is more G than R. He's more instinctive than emotional.
Anyway, suggestions.
Heroes
U: Hank Pym (Ant-Man) B: Punisher (as a hero), Deadpool (sometimes hero), Power Man (only saves people for money), Booster Gold, Blade R: Rocket Raccoon, Hank Pym (Yellowjacket) G: Black Panther, Squirrel Girl (lol), Groot
Villains
W: Ronan the Accuser, Kang the Conqueror, Punisher (as a villain) U: MODOK B: Deadpool (sometimes villain) R: Giganta, Carnage G: Galactus, Kraven the Hunter, Ra's al Ghul
I considered Kang, Surfer, Cable and a handful of others but decided they were too powerful (Play Galactus for 100, exile everything).
Also, like I said, some are multi.
Once I reach actual design I'll set it up in the card design forum. I'll post a link once I've got some basics.
U: The Question R: Hulk B: Lobo BR: Guy Gardner G: Man-Thing, Swamp Thing, Krakoa the living island
I put the Riddler in W since in my view, his motif is mostly about creating an arbitrary framework of rules that he can use to "prove" how smart he is.
I'm really surprised at how... off some of these impressions are compared to mine. Here is my read:
Superman - He is a paragon of honor and virtue and fairness.
Captain America - The Solider, all about justice as well.
Poison Ivy - In most interpretations all she really cares about are her plants.
Kraven the Hunter - Kraven is Marvel's Garruk, he only cares for the Hunt.
Joker - The Joker is chaos incarnate, with plenty of malice thrown in, but he's basically Tybalt.
Ghost Rider - The spirit of vengeance doesn't really lean 'evil', it's just vengeance incarnate.
Deadpool - Deadpool is another 'easy' character. He isn't good or evil, he's just chaos.
Doomsday - Mindless Destruction.
Galactus - He's a force of nature that exists only to consume. Pretty black, just not 'evil'.
Ra's al Ghul - It's hard to justify the head of an assassin's guild obsessed with immortality and having made a deal with a demon as anything but black. U/B, maybe.
Black Widow and Nick Fury - Super spies who are pretty much all business.
Batman - Batman is a Ninja who doesn't kill and who has a single-minded obsession with his job.
Magneto and Zod - Both want what is right for their people, but only their people and they're willing to slaughter anyone else to get it. They're actually very similar characters in terms of motivations. Doctor Doom could fit here as well.
Kang the Conqueror - He has played both Hero and Villain, and is all about the greater good... so long as it brings about HIS future.
Black Panther - While on the surface he's an African Batman, he's a benevolent king and someone who care greatly about his people and the environment, and he derives his power from a Panther God. Pretty W/G to me.
Professor X - He is all about fighting for a better future, the right way, but his powers and tactics push him blue, as well. He's not above being manipulative to get his goal.
Thunderbolt Ross - He's a military man, so the order and structure piece is there, but more importantly his obsession with the Hulk defines him, to the point where he becomes literally Red as the Red Hulk.
Thor - The God of Thunder is probably the most explicit R/W character there is. He's about justice, honor and valor, and would be right at home in the Boros Legion.
Power Man - This is one I don't think most people get. Luke Cage isn't all about the money, the whole heroes for hire thing was a way of making his heroics practical, unlike, say, Spider-man. He's about being responsible for your actions, but he's also one of the most down to earth heroes, and he's not afraid to lay a beatdown on someone he thinks deserves it.
Wolverine - Wolverine is a complicated character, but most modern interpretations would put him here. He's basically a Samurai Berserker.
Mystique - Manipulative and sneaky for her own gain or for less than savory causes. Pretty U/B.
MODOK - Mechanized Organism Designed Only for Killing - he's a scientist supreme who only truly cares about creating his weapons.
Bruce Banner - Banner isn't mono-blue. Don't forget that its Banner's Rage and his reckless Heroism that created the Hulk.
Hank Pym - For pretty much the same reasons as banner.
Iron Man - Brilliant inventor but ruled by his emotions and impulses.
Spider-Man - Has there every been anyone more R/U than Spider-man? He is a genius but frequently flies by the seat of his pants.
Hulk - Does this need any further explanation?
Carnage - Serial Murderer and chaotic, while he could be considered like Tybalt as mono-red, I think he's a little too B here.
Unclassifiable:
Harvey Dent - Depends entirely on which interpretation
Martian Manhunter - I don't really know enough about the character. W/U?
Blade - He's pretty much a combinations of Batman and Black Widow, but he's hard to fit.
Squirrel Girl - She isn't much of a character, honestly.
Bonus Fantastic Four:
Mr. Fantastic - The scientist
Thing - The solider/warrior
Human Torch - The passionate and whimsical
Invisible Woman - Mother, all about the family
^Batman is NOT R. Not in the least bit. The decisions he makes are rarely guided by his emotions. You're probably thinking of Bruce Wayne, who is more of a show that Batman is putting for the public.
His entire life sprouts out of his inability to move beyond the emotional trauma he suffered when his parents died.
Batman is crazy and all about his emotions.
He creates a bunch of rules that suits his own needs and views. He claims he doesn't kill, but the way he beats people up is enough to leave them broken for LIFE. He believes in justice and order, but only in an extralegal sense.
Batman is more UWR than just straight U. W for absolute justice, R for his independent streak/emotions, U for his intelligence(?)
Spider-Man - Has there every been anyone more R/U than Spider-man? He is a genius but frequently flies by the seat of his pants.
Lots of good points and agree with most of your categorizations, this is the only one that I really question. While Spider-man is definitely wise-cracking and good at thinking on his feet, I've never considered him to be overly emotional, chaotic or impulsive. I don't know, just not sure on that one. I would definitely put W somewhere in there because of his central mantra that "with great power comes great responsibility", it's that sense of duty and responsibility that makes him Spider-man.
Also (this is just a general comment not directed specifically at you Jay) I think we should be careful that just because a character knows science, it doesn't automatically make them U. If scientific discovery and/or the pursuit of knowledge is a primary motivator for you (ie Reed Richards), that should be what makes your character/personality U, not the fact that you happen to be smart or know chemistry or astrophysics. For example Superman is often shown to possess a genius level intellect with knowledge of advanced Kryptonian science, but I would not say he is in any way U.
I'm really surprised at how... off some of these impressions are compared to mine. Here is my read:
Superman - He is a paragon of honor and virtue and fairness.
Captain America - The Solider, all about justice as well.
Poison Ivy - In most interpretations all she really cares about are her plants.
Kraven the Hunter - Kraven is Marvel's Garruk, he only cares for the Hunt.
Joker - The Joker is chaos incarnate, with plenty of malice thrown in, but he's basically Tybalt.
Ghost Rider - The spirit of vengeance doesn't really lean 'evil', it's just vengeance incarnate.
Deadpool - Deadpool is another 'easy' character. He isn't good or evil, he's just chaos.
Doomsday - Mindless Destruction.
Galactus - He's a force of nature that exists only to consume. Pretty black, just not 'evil'.
Ra's al Ghul - It's hard to justify the head of an assassin's guild obsessed with immortality and having made a deal with a demon as anything but black. U/B, maybe.
Black Widow and Nick Fury - Super spies who are pretty much all business.
Batman - Batman is a Ninja who doesn't kill and who has a single-minded obsession with his job.
Magneto and Zod - Both want what is right for their people, but only their people and they're willing to slaughter anyone else to get it. They're actually very similar characters in terms of motivations. Doctor Doom could fit here as well.
Kang the Conqueror - He has played both Hero and Villain, and is all about the greater good... so long as it brings about HIS future.
Black Panther - While on the surface he's an African Batman, he's a benevolent king and someone who care greatly about his people and the environment, and he derives his power from a Panther God. Pretty W/G to me.
Professor X - He is all about fighting for a better future, the right way, but his powers and tactics push him blue, as well. He's not above being manipulative to get his goal.
Thunderbolt Ross - He's a military man, so the order and structure piece is there, but more importantly his obsession with the Hulk defines him, to the point where he becomes literally Red as the Red Hulk.
Thor - The God of Thunder is probably the most explicit R/W character there is. He's about justice, honor and valor, and would be right at home in the Boros Legion.
Power Man - This is one I don't think most people get. Luke Cage isn't all about the money, the whole heroes for hire thing was a way of making his heroics practical, unlike, say, Spider-man. He's about being responsible for your actions, but he's also one of the most down to earth heroes, and he's not afraid to lay a beatdown on someone he thinks deserves it.
Wolverine - Wolverine is a complicated character, but most modern interpretations would put him here. He's basically a Samurai Berserker.
Mystique - Manipulative and sneaky for her own gain or for less than savory causes. Pretty U/B.
MODOK - Mechanized Organism Designed Only for Killing - he's a scientist supreme who only truly cares about creating his weapons.
Bruce Banner - Banner isn't mono-blue. Don't forget that its Banner's Rage and his reckless Heroism that created the Hulk.
Hank Pym - For pretty much the same reasons as banner.
Iron Man - Brilliant inventor but ruled by his emotions and impulses.
Spider-Man - Has there every been anyone more R/U than Spider-man? He is a genius but frequently flies by the seat of his pants.
Hulk - Does this need any further explanation?
Carnage - Serial Murderer and chaotic, while he could be considered like Tybalt as mono-red, I think he's a little too B here.
Unclassifiable:
Harvey Dent - Depends entirely on which interpretation
Martian Manhunter - I don't really know enough about the character. W/U?
Blade - He's pretty much a combinations of Batman and Black Widow, but he's hard to fit.
Squirrel Girl - She isn't much of a character, honestly.
Bonus Fantastic Four:
Mr. Fantastic - The scientist
Thing - The solider/warrior
Human Torch - The passionate and whimsical
Invisible Woman - Mother, all about the family
Batman isn't mono-u. He is dedicated to protecting the weak. That is white. So he is white/blue. Also, The Thing is driven by emotion as well. Have you seen him when he fights Human Torch or when he gets angry at the Yancy Street Gang.
I can post my Marvel MSE set if you like. Some of the stuff is pretty spot on, although Cyclops may be the most broken card ever made...
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Whole list I've got so far. Explains why they're that color and a basic overview of their abilities. By the way most of the cards in these would be broooooooken in regular Magic, they're supposed to only be balanced against each other. W
Superman-Needs no justification. 8/8 with vigilance, flying, indestructible. To flavorfuly represent all his abilities clashes with the mechanics.
Captain America-Obviously White. 3/4 with some sort of team buff ability.
Thunderbolt Ross- Open to debate, but he's a career officer and close enough. Summons soldiers. U
Professor X- By personality I'd say he's white. But Telepathy.
Martian Manhunter- I know nothing about him as a character so I made him Aetherling. I don't know why the autocard doesn't work.
Black Widow- Spy so blue. She's blue Sleeper Agent.
Bruce Banner- Scientist so blue. 0/1 flip card that turns into hulk, though I don't know how to activate it.
MODOK- Researcher. Could maybe be Blue/Black, but if Tezzeret can be mono-blue so can he. Phyrexian blue, flying, draws cards or maybe Merfolk Looters. B
Ghost Rider- He's a demon... skeleton... human... I guess.
Juggernaut- Mercenary so black. Up for debate. Indestructible beef.
Darkseid- Needs no justification. 8/8, maybe Anhialator 2 or something. R
Hulk (flip-side of Banner)- 5/5 with attacks each turn if able. Tramble. When dealt damage and not killed he gets two +1/+1 counters. G
Poison Ivy- Needs no justification. 1/1 with deathtouch, summons plant tokens.
Doomsday- A mindless predator. Whenever he dies he comes back with +1/+1 counters WU
Batman- Other than Judge Dread he's the closes to incarnate law that people get, so White. And he's both a master detective and planner so U. 3/3 with unblockable, vigilance, and some sort of scry. UB
Mystiqe- Black Widow by more expensive, less beneficial for your opponent, and more damaging for them. BR
Joker- His means are chaotic, but his motivations are to prove everyone is evil to dismiss him of his own guilt. He's a 2/1 with some sort of Capricious Efreet ability.
Carnage- He's so Rakdos he's Rakdos. 3/1, don't quite know how to represent him. RG
Wolverine- Runs on instinct and goes berzerk frequently. 4/2 with automatic regen, maybe attacks each turn if able. GW
Black Panther- He'd be mono-white, but he gets green for being part of an ancient tradition of being king of his nature-friendly nation. 3/3 with flash and hexproof. WB
Harvey Dent- Split personality, one for each color. Although a case could be made for red. Super cheap, sometimes benefits your opponant somehow.
Magneto- Values the well being of others. As long as they're mutants. Screw everyone else. I have no idea how to represent that. BG
Parasite- Predatory and a jerk about it. Could just be black. Deathrouch, Wither, whenever he passes out -1 counters he gets +1 counters. GU UR RW
Thor- Super protective of earth and a bit of a blood knight. 6/6 with a tap effect for lightning bolts.
Wonder Woman- Superman, but she's much more... expedient about her justice. Mechanically I got nothing. WUR
Iron Man- Inventor, hero, reckless alcoholic. Beefy body with flying and some activated abilities. WUG
Aquaman- Same as Black Panther, but underwater. Decent stats, summons krakens.
Artifact
Cerebro- It scrys your library for cheap, scrs your opponant for a bunch.
Ultron- Nevinyrral's Disk on a beefy body.
Blue Beetle- An equipment that grants random bonuses.
Wonder Woman's Bracers- Equipment, got nothing as to what it does.
Lands
Justice Hall- Taps for any color of a hero you control
Injustice Hall- Exact same thing for Villains
Helicarrier- Taps for colorless and deals damage. Maybe tutors heroes.
Daily Planet- Everybody draws because it's an information distribution company.
Baxter Building- I hate the Four. It's not that they're bad characters, but they bore the heck out of me. Consequently, I have no idea how to represent their base.
Castle Doomstat, Fortress of Solitude- Got nothing.
Ronan, Dr. Manhatten, Galactus, Surfer, Kang and Squirrel Girl all seem too powerful. SG is canonically unbeatable.
There won't be room for everyone, and not everyone's gonna agree on where characters go, but I'm doing the best I can.
Need more locations. Also, I can't even place Spider-Man, Ghost Rider, Bane, Green Lantern, The Flash, Red Tornado. Some are easy color-wise (GL), or abilities (Bane) but how do you represent them?
His entire life sprouts out of his inability to move beyond the emotional trauma he suffered when his parents died.
Batman is crazy and all about his emotions.
Batman is crazy with his emotions because he's never coped with them. He bottles up his hatred so that he may serve the justice he believes is right, such as his rule to never kill. That is as far away as a R character can be; if you piss a R character off, they'll make sure you know it even if it kills you.
Ghost Rider - The spirit of vengeance doesn't really lean 'evil', it's just vengeance incarnate.
Destruction/= R. Ghost Rider kills out of duty. He's very WB.
Deadpool - Deadpool is another 'easy' character. He isn't good or evil, he's just chaos.
Deadpool's emotional restraint is about as high as his moral capacity. He's BR.
Doomsday - Mindless Destruction.
Doomsday kills because it's in his instincts to do so, not out of anger nor spite.
Galactus - He's a force of nature that exists only to consume. Pretty black, just not 'evil'.
Polukranos, World Eater is also a force of nature that only exists to consume. Galactus causes mass killings because he'd die if he doesn't. He doesn't do it for power, spite, ambition, nor anything black like that.
Ra's al Ghul - It's hard to justify the head of an assassin's guild obsessed with immortality and having made a deal with a demon as anything but black. U/B, maybe.
His methods are definitely UB, but his ultimate goal isn't one of knowledge nor power. He believes that human progress has gone too far and seeks to "reset" the world. That is a very G thing.
Power Man - This is one I don't think most people get. Luke Cage isn't all about the money, the whole heroes for hire thing was a way of making his heroics practical, unlike, say, Spider-man. He's about being responsible for your actions, but he's also one of the most down to earth heroes, and he's not afraid to lay a beatdown on someone he thinks deserves it.
You're probably right here. I only know this guy on the surface.
Wolverine - Wolverine is a complicated character, but most modern interpretations would put him here. He's basically a Samurai Berserker.
Again, you're probably right here as well. I haven't kept up with Wolvie in years, but his older incarnations are more G than anything.
Spider-Man - Has there every been anyone more R/U than Spider-man? He is a genius but frequently flies by the seat of his pants.
This one is a bit of a trap, IMO. A smart-mouthed hero who's both quick with his wits and his feet? What can be more UR than that, right?
Most Spider-man comics have involved an internal battle between doing what's right (W) and doing what you want (BR). Sometimes we see what happens if Spider-man lives off his wants rather than out of obligation, but in the end, his sense of duty always wins. He is primary W all the way.
Also, while Spider-man may be super-smart, his goals and methods are not terribly U. To him, his knowledge is just a tool. It's not something that he actively progresses past his university years.
Unclassifiable:
Blade - He's pretty much a combinations of Batman and Black Widow, but he's hard to fit.
His weaponry and tactics may be Batman-like, but his personality sure isn't. He has one goal, and one goal only: kill all vampires. Good or evil, it doesn't matter. In his eyes, the world is better off without them. WB all the way.
Bonus Fantastic Four:
Thing - The solider/warrior
The Thing's probably as emotionally driven as the Human Torch is, just in a different way. His anger and sadness definitely take a toll on his hero life. More R than W, IMO.
Whole list I've got so far. Explains why they're that color and a basic overview of their abilities.
I just want to say that asking "what card would they have" is such a better way of going about this IMO. You can spin your wheels endlessly discussing philosophy, the colors also have mechanical associations which you will only see when you start thinking about how to represent their powers, and in many cases that will do a much better job at sealing the deal.
E.G. Invisible woman almost has to have some blue due to Invisible Stalker. Something shroudy/unblockable is very likely as well.
Foxbat: Yeah, I guess. I'm having a hard time putting anyone in my mind between 3 and 6. Next post will be accompanied by the Card Creation continuation of this.
Note to self: Maybe med range is mostly sorcery/instant to allow for battlecruiser Superman and such.
Batman is crazy with his emotions because he's never coped with them. He bottles up his hatred so that he may serve the justice he believes is right, such as his rule to never kill. That is as far away as a R character can be; if you piss a R character off, they'll make sure you know it even if it kills you.
Batman does what he wants, never mind what the law and conventional morality says. He does this based on an emotional trauma he suffered.
Batman is impulsive and selfish in his own right. And he's rather overt and obvious with it. That it shows in the way that most people think is good is irrelevant imo.
I firmly think Batman would be red if he got shoe-horned into the MTG color pie.
His entire life sprouts out of his inability to move beyond the emotional trauma he suffered when his parents died.
Batman is crazy and all about his emotions.
He creates a bunch of rules that suits his own needs and views. He claims he doesn't kill, but the way he beats people up is enough to leave them broken for LIFE. He believes in justice and order, but only in an extralegal sense.
Batman is more UWR than just straight U. W for absolute justice, R for his independent streak/emotions, U for his intelligence(?)
I could buy that. Or WRB, which would more emphasize the "dark knight/avenging angel" side of his persona. But then to be honest, I also find the wedge color trios to be very difficult to pin down philosophically.
Batman does what he wants, never mind what the law and conventional morality says. He does this based on an emotional trauma he suffered.
Batman is impulsive and selfish in his own right. And he's rather overt and obvious with it. That it shows in the way that most people think is good is irrelevant imo.
I firmly think Batman would be red if he got shoe-horned into the MTG color pie.
Understand that two characters can have vastly contrasting moral standards with one another and still be mono-W. Batman's moral code does not line up exactly with that of the local government, but he still has one, and it's one that is set in stone. An archetypical RW vigilante would break his/her own rules from time to time if it means he/she can better serve justice, but Batman is never willing to do that.
The selfish "do what I want" attitude that you think Batman has is far more B than R, IMO. With B, Batman would be able to ignore most moral boundaries towards a certain group (villains) and still uphold it for others. I personally don't think Batman has that much B in him, but I can see why you'd think so.
Also, why do you think Batman's impulsive? From what I've seen, just about everything he does is planned to the minutest of details. This is in contrast to someone like Iron Man, who just kinda wings it often. With that said, Batman is definitely U for his value of knowledge, definitely W for his striving of justice, and maaaaybe a little B for seemingly exempting morality when facing villains.
Batman does what he wants, never mind what the law and conventional morality says. He does this based on an emotional trauma he suffered.
Batman is impulsive and selfish in his own right. And he's rather overt and obvious with it. That it shows in the way that most people think is good is irrelevant imo.
I firmly think Batman would be red if he got shoe-horned into the MTG color pie.
Understand that two characters can have vastly contrasting moral standards with one another and still be mono-W. Batman's moral code does not line up exactly with that of the local government, but he still has one, and it's one that is set in stone. An archetypical RW vigilante would break his/her own rules from time to time if it means he/she can better serve justice, but Batman is never willing to do that.
The selfish "do what I want" attitude that you think Batman has is far more B than R, IMO. With B, Batman would be able to ignore most moral boundaries towards a certain group (villains) and still uphold it for others. I personally don't think Batman has that much B in him, but I can see why you'd think so.
Also, why do you think Batman's impulsive? From what I've seen, just about everything he does is planned to the minutest of details. This is in contrast to someone like Iron Man, who just kinda wings it often. With that said, Batman is definitely U for his value of knowledge, definitely W for his striving of justice, and maaaaybe a little B for seemingly exempting morality when facing villains.
Batman doesn't so whatever he wants to with villains. He doesn't kill them.
And more than once I recall him saying something along the lines of how much he really wants to. I'm fairly certain he's an ocean of crazy behind a glass dam, and watching it break would be a great storyline.
And more than once I recall him saying something along the lines of how much he really wants to. I'm fairly certain he's an ocean of crazy behind a glass dam, and watching it break would be a great storyline.
You have to remember that the only time that he broke his moral code was followed by him retiring (see the Batman Beyond storyline).
Batman doesn't so whatever he wants to with villains. He doesn't kill them.
I agree. I think the "do what I want" Batman that people see is the one that intimidates, steals from, and nearly beats to death anyone to further his goals. However, I think in his mind those actions are totally justified and have no moral qualms.
In contrast, A R/W hero would think such actions are bending against laws and morality, but be willing to break those rules if justice can be served more quickly. A W/B hero would simply toss all morality out the window for the villains. If they aren't willing to follow the laws, then no one should enforce the laws for them either.
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Stuff I've already got. Leaving out W heroes and B villians because obvious. Some are multi.
W: Magneto, Thunderbolt Ross, Zod, Harvey Dent
U: Black Widow, Nick Fury, Martian Manhunter, Batman, Prof. X, Mystique, Bruce Banner
B: Ghost Rider,
R: Thor, Joker, Wolverine,
G: Poison Ivy, Doomsday,
By nature this is going to swing back and forth between flavor and mechanics, so let's be cool about where this thread should be. Unless you're a mod, in which case do whatever.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'm not so sure I'd call Doomsday G. Yes, he runs on his instincts to kill Superman, but he was created that way beyond nature. Think of zombies in Magic, for example. Most of the time their drive is just to eat people (a G trait), but they're still B since their creators are B. In that sense, Doomsday is UB with maybe a hint of W because his creators are that color.
According to MaRo, Wolverine is more G than R. He's more instinctive than emotional.
Anyway, suggestions.
Heroes
U: Hank Pym (Ant-Man)
B: Punisher (as a hero), Deadpool (sometimes hero), Power Man (only saves people for money), Booster Gold, Blade
R: Rocket Raccoon, Hank Pym (Yellowjacket)
G: Black Panther, Squirrel Girl (lol), Groot
Villains
W: Ronan the Accuser, Kang the Conqueror, Punisher (as a villain)
U: MODOK
B: Deadpool (sometimes villain)
R: Giganta, Carnage
G: Galactus, Kraven the Hunter, Ra's al Ghul
You are right about Batman.
Heroes
U: Mr. Fantastic
R: Thing, Human Torch
Villains
U: High Evolutionary
(I am not sure where I'd put Invisible Woman)
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
"normality is a paved road: it is comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow there."
-Vincent Van Gogh
things I hate:
1. lists.
b. inconsistencies.
V. incorrect math.
2. quotes in signatures
III: irony.
there are two kinds of people in the world: those who can make reasonable conclusions based on conjecture.
Also, like I said, some are multi.
Once I reach actual design I'll set it up in the card design forum. I'll post a link once I've got some basics.
R: Hulk
B: Lobo
BR: Guy Gardner
G: Man-Thing, Swamp Thing, Krakoa the living island
I put the Riddler in W since in my view, his motif is mostly about creating an arbitrary framework of rules that he can use to "prove" how smart he is.
Superman - He is a paragon of honor and virtue and fairness.
Captain America - The Solider, all about justice as well.
Poison Ivy - In most interpretations all she really cares about are her plants.
Kraven the Hunter - Kraven is Marvel's Garruk, he only cares for the Hunt.
Joker - The Joker is chaos incarnate, with plenty of malice thrown in, but he's basically Tybalt.
Ghost Rider - The spirit of vengeance doesn't really lean 'evil', it's just vengeance incarnate.
Deadpool - Deadpool is another 'easy' character. He isn't good or evil, he's just chaos.
Doomsday - Mindless Destruction.
Galactus - He's a force of nature that exists only to consume. Pretty black, just not 'evil'.
Ra's al Ghul - It's hard to justify the head of an assassin's guild obsessed with immortality and having made a deal with a demon as anything but black. U/B, maybe.
Black Widow and Nick Fury - Super spies who are pretty much all business.
Batman - Batman is a Ninja who doesn't kill and who has a single-minded obsession with his job.
Magneto and Zod - Both want what is right for their people, but only their people and they're willing to slaughter anyone else to get it. They're actually very similar characters in terms of motivations. Doctor Doom could fit here as well.
Kang the Conqueror - He has played both Hero and Villain, and is all about the greater good... so long as it brings about HIS future.
Black Panther - While on the surface he's an African Batman, he's a benevolent king and someone who care greatly about his people and the environment, and he derives his power from a Panther God. Pretty W/G to me.
Professor X - He is all about fighting for a better future, the right way, but his powers and tactics push him blue, as well. He's not above being manipulative to get his goal.
Thunderbolt Ross - He's a military man, so the order and structure piece is there, but more importantly his obsession with the Hulk defines him, to the point where he becomes literally Red as the Red Hulk.
Thor - The God of Thunder is probably the most explicit R/W character there is. He's about justice, honor and valor, and would be right at home in the Boros Legion.
Power Man - This is one I don't think most people get. Luke Cage isn't all about the money, the whole heroes for hire thing was a way of making his heroics practical, unlike, say, Spider-man. He's about being responsible for your actions, but he's also one of the most down to earth heroes, and he's not afraid to lay a beatdown on someone he thinks deserves it.
Wolverine - Wolverine is a complicated character, but most modern interpretations would put him here. He's basically a Samurai Berserker.
Mystique - Manipulative and sneaky for her own gain or for less than savory causes. Pretty U/B.
MODOK - Mechanized Organism Designed Only for Killing - he's a scientist supreme who only truly cares about creating his weapons.
Bruce Banner - Banner isn't mono-blue. Don't forget that its Banner's Rage and his reckless Heroism that created the Hulk.
Hank Pym - For pretty much the same reasons as banner.
Iron Man - Brilliant inventor but ruled by his emotions and impulses.
Spider-Man - Has there every been anyone more R/U than Spider-man? He is a genius but frequently flies by the seat of his pants.
Hulk - Does this need any further explanation?
Carnage - Serial Murderer and chaotic, while he could be considered like Tybalt as mono-red, I think he's a little too B here.
Unclassifiable:
Harvey Dent - Depends entirely on which interpretation
Martian Manhunter - I don't really know enough about the character. W/U?
Blade - He's pretty much a combinations of Batman and Black Widow, but he's hard to fit.
Squirrel Girl - She isn't much of a character, honestly.
Bonus Fantastic Four:
Mr. Fantastic - The scientist
Thing - The solider/warrior
Human Torch - The passionate and whimsical
Invisible Woman - Mother, all about the family
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His entire life sprouts out of his inability to move beyond the emotional trauma he suffered when his parents died.
Batman is crazy and all about his emotions.
He creates a bunch of rules that suits his own needs and views. He claims he doesn't kill, but the way he beats people up is enough to leave them broken for LIFE. He believes in justice and order, but only in an extralegal sense.
Batman is more UWR than just straight U. W for absolute justice, R for his independent streak/emotions, U for his intelligence(?)
Lots of good points and agree with most of your categorizations, this is the only one that I really question. While Spider-man is definitely wise-cracking and good at thinking on his feet, I've never considered him to be overly emotional, chaotic or impulsive. I don't know, just not sure on that one. I would definitely put W somewhere in there because of his central mantra that "with great power comes great responsibility", it's that sense of duty and responsibility that makes him Spider-man.
Also (this is just a general comment not directed specifically at you Jay) I think we should be careful that just because a character knows science, it doesn't automatically make them U. If scientific discovery and/or the pursuit of knowledge is a primary motivator for you (ie Reed Richards), that should be what makes your character/personality U, not the fact that you happen to be smart or know chemistry or astrophysics. For example Superman is often shown to possess a genius level intellect with knowledge of advanced Kryptonian science, but I would not say he is in any way U.
Batman isn't mono-u. He is dedicated to protecting the weak. That is white. So he is white/blue. Also, The Thing is driven by emotion as well. Have you seen him when he fights Human Torch or when he gets angry at the Yancy Street Gang.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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I have 28 different EDH decks
W
Superman-Needs no justification. 8/8 with vigilance, flying, indestructible. To flavorfuly represent all his abilities clashes with the mechanics.
Captain America-Obviously White. 3/4 with some sort of team buff ability.
Thunderbolt Ross- Open to debate, but he's a career officer and close enough. Summons soldiers.
U
Professor X- By personality I'd say he's white. But Telepathy.
Martian Manhunter- I know nothing about him as a character so I made him Aetherling. I don't know why the autocard doesn't work.
Black Widow- Spy so blue. She's blue Sleeper Agent.
Bruce Banner- Scientist so blue. 0/1 flip card that turns into hulk, though I don't know how to activate it.
MODOK- Researcher. Could maybe be Blue/Black, but if Tezzeret can be mono-blue so can he. Phyrexian blue, flying, draws cards or maybe Merfolk Looters.
B
Ghost Rider- He's a demon... skeleton... human... I guess.
Juggernaut- Mercenary so black. Up for debate. Indestructible beef.
Darkseid- Needs no justification. 8/8, maybe Anhialator 2 or something.
R
Hulk (flip-side of Banner)- 5/5 with attacks each turn if able. Tramble. When dealt damage and not killed he gets two +1/+1 counters.
G
Poison Ivy- Needs no justification. 1/1 with deathtouch, summons plant tokens.
Doomsday- A mindless predator. Whenever he dies he comes back with +1/+1 counters
WU
Batman- Other than Judge Dread he's the closes to incarnate law that people get, so White. And he's both a master detective and planner so U. 3/3 with unblockable, vigilance, and some sort of scry.
UB
Mystiqe- Black Widow by more expensive, less beneficial for your opponent, and more damaging for them.
BR
Joker- His means are chaotic, but his motivations are to prove everyone is evil to dismiss him of his own guilt. He's a 2/1 with some sort of Capricious Efreet ability.
Carnage- He's so Rakdos he's Rakdos. 3/1, don't quite know how to represent him.
RG
Wolverine- Runs on instinct and goes berzerk frequently. 4/2 with automatic regen, maybe attacks each turn if able.
GW
Black Panther- He'd be mono-white, but he gets green for being part of an ancient tradition of being king of his nature-friendly nation. 3/3 with flash and hexproof.
WB
Harvey Dent- Split personality, one for each color. Although a case could be made for red. Super cheap, sometimes benefits your opponant somehow.
Magneto- Values the well being of others. As long as they're mutants. Screw everyone else. I have no idea how to represent that.
BG
Parasite- Predatory and a jerk about it. Could just be black. Deathrouch, Wither, whenever he passes out -1 counters he gets +1 counters.
GU
UR
RW
Thor- Super protective of earth and a bit of a blood knight. 6/6 with a tap effect for lightning bolts.
Wonder Woman- Superman, but she's much more... expedient about her justice. Mechanically I got nothing.
WUR
Iron Man- Inventor, hero, reckless alcoholic. Beefy body with flying and some activated abilities.
WUG
Aquaman- Same as Black Panther, but underwater. Decent stats, summons krakens.
Artifact
Cerebro- It scrys your library for cheap, scrs your opponant for a bunch.
Ultron- Nevinyrral's Disk on a beefy body.
Blue Beetle- An equipment that grants random bonuses.
Wonder Woman's Bracers- Equipment, got nothing as to what it does.
Lands
Justice Hall- Taps for any color of a hero you control
Injustice Hall- Exact same thing for Villains
Helicarrier- Taps for colorless and deals damage. Maybe tutors heroes.
Daily Planet- Everybody draws because it's an information distribution company.
Baxter Building- I hate the Four. It's not that they're bad characters, but they bore the heck out of me. Consequently, I have no idea how to represent their base.
Castle Doomstat, Fortress of Solitude- Got nothing.
Ronan, Dr. Manhatten, Galactus, Surfer, Kang and Squirrel Girl all seem too powerful. SG is canonically unbeatable.
There won't be room for everyone, and not everyone's gonna agree on where characters go, but I'm doing the best I can.
Need more locations. Also, I can't even place Spider-Man, Ghost Rider, Bane, Green Lantern, The Flash, Red Tornado. Some are easy color-wise (GL), or abilities (Bane) but how do you represent them?
Destruction/= R. Ghost Rider kills out of duty. He's very WB.
Deadpool's emotional restraint is about as high as his moral capacity. He's BR.
Doomsday kills because it's in his instincts to do so, not out of anger nor spite.
Polukranos, World Eater is also a force of nature that only exists to consume. Galactus causes mass killings because he'd die if he doesn't. He doesn't do it for power, spite, ambition, nor anything black like that.
His methods are definitely UB, but his ultimate goal isn't one of knowledge nor power. He believes that human progress has gone too far and seeks to "reset" the world. That is a very G thing.
You're probably right here. I only know this guy on the surface.
Again, you're probably right here as well. I haven't kept up with Wolvie in years, but his older incarnations are more G than anything.
This one is a bit of a trap, IMO. A smart-mouthed hero who's both quick with his wits and his feet? What can be more UR than that, right?
Most Spider-man comics have involved an internal battle between doing what's right (W) and doing what you want (BR). Sometimes we see what happens if Spider-man lives off his wants rather than out of obligation, but in the end, his sense of duty always wins. He is primary W all the way.
Also, while Spider-man may be super-smart, his goals and methods are not terribly U. To him, his knowledge is just a tool. It's not something that he actively progresses past his university years.
His weaponry and tactics may be Batman-like, but his personality sure isn't. He has one goal, and one goal only: kill all vampires. Good or evil, it doesn't matter. In his eyes, the world is better off without them. WB all the way.
The Thing's probably as emotionally driven as the Human Torch is, just in a different way. His anger and sadness definitely take a toll on his hero life. More R than W, IMO.
I'm not seeing the G too much here.
I just want to say that asking "what card would they have" is such a better way of going about this IMO. You can spin your wheels endlessly discussing philosophy, the colors also have mechanical associations which you will only see when you start thinking about how to represent their powers, and in many cases that will do a much better job at sealing the deal.
E.G. Invisible woman almost has to have some blue due to Invisible Stalker. Something shroudy/unblockable is very likely as well.
Note to self: Maybe med range is mostly sorcery/instant to allow for battlecruiser Superman and such.
Batman does what he wants, never mind what the law and conventional morality says. He does this based on an emotional trauma he suffered.
Batman is impulsive and selfish in his own right. And he's rather overt and obvious with it. That it shows in the way that most people think is good is irrelevant imo.
I firmly think Batman would be red if he got shoe-horned into the MTG color pie.
I could buy that. Or WRB, which would more emphasize the "dark knight/avenging angel" side of his persona. But then to be honest, I also find the wedge color trios to be very difficult to pin down philosophically.
The selfish "do what I want" attitude that you think Batman has is far more B than R, IMO. With B, Batman would be able to ignore most moral boundaries towards a certain group (villains) and still uphold it for others. I personally don't think Batman has that much B in him, but I can see why you'd think so.
Also, why do you think Batman's impulsive? From what I've seen, just about everything he does is planned to the minutest of details. This is in contrast to someone like Iron Man, who just kinda wings it often. With that said, Batman is definitely U for his value of knowledge, definitely W for his striving of justice, and maaaaybe a little B for seemingly exempting morality when facing villains.
Forces of nature that exist only to consume are a green thing.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Batman doesn't so whatever he wants to with villains. He doesn't kill them.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
You have to remember that the only time that he broke his moral code was followed by him retiring (see the Batman Beyond storyline).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
In contrast, A R/W hero would think such actions are bending against laws and morality, but be willing to break those rules if justice can be served more quickly. A W/B hero would simply toss all morality out the window for the villains. If they aren't willing to follow the laws, then no one should enforce the laws for them either.