I was at this party the other day, and a few people had their phones out with some "ghost hunting" application. A bunch of other people were gathered around them, helping them "hunt." I thought it was a cute gag at first, but then I realized they were dead serious, no pun intended. Not only did they all believe in ghosts, but many of them were truly convinced that an application on their phone could help them find ghosts.
So I asked my wife who was not present at the party. Believes in ghosts. I asked my best friend, also not present; also believes in ghosts. I asked other friends, found 1 that didn't.
So I thought maybe it was a religious thing, but most of them are not religious. Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Is ghost-belief really as prevalent in the modern Western world as it is among my circle?
People like having something intangible or unrealistic to believe in. Religion exists for a reasons and many that lack that type of faith find similar beliefs somewhere else.
You can be non-religious but still superstitious. If an atheist believes in 'luck', he's still superstitious. People like to think that religion and superstition are intrinsically tied, but they aren't. Religion is a codified set of shared superstitions, but that doesn't mean it's the sole source of superstition. You get them without religion, too. The concept of ghosts, spirits or souls crosses a lot of cultural barriers and has found it's way in to a lot of religions.
So I thought maybe it was a religious thing, but most of them are not religious. Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Is ghost-belief really as prevalent in the modern Western world as it is among my circle?
The sheer popularity of Ghost Hunters and the other paranormal shows on t.v. alone should tell you a bit about this.
If anything, most Christian churches don't believe in ghosts. It doesn't make sense in their theological world-view. Demons and people who do things with Satan? Sure, but those are separate from ghosts. The entire concept of spirits staying behind to... open doors to alert people of their presence? How the **** does that make sense when you're supposed to go to God to receive judgment immediately after death? If God is truly omniscient and omnipotent, then you couldn't hide from him after death even if you tried.
Ghosts don't make sense in conventional Christian theology.
Like Jivanmukta said, I think many people believe in ghosts and UFOs and ***** because they need something to believe in. Something that is just out of hand's reach, but clearly visible elsewhere. A mystery, in other words.
I wanted to believe in UFOs and ghosts for much the same reason. Then I grew out of it. Now I find them as a source of entertainment.
Ghosts don't make sense in conventional Christian theology.
Yep. Ghosts don't make sense in the theology of Hinduism or any of the other Abrahamic religions either. I think it's interesting how superstition and religion mix even when they're mutually exclusive. For instance, my family (hardcore Catholic) has made statements alluding to reincarnation and ghosts, despite neither of these being a 'thing' in Catholicism.
Well it's pointless to assume people will actually believe the correct tenants of their faiths. Without adaptation to the individual faith would die out rapidly. Justification yo.
Laws of science kinda dictate ghosts can't be real. If we had any proof, we would have to change a lot of fundamental laws of science. Mostly laws of energy and entropy, and all that fun stuff.
But then again science is fairly certain dark matter exists, and that's kinda just ghost matter, except it can have some explosive results. haha.
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Science doesn't prove things don't exist. Ghosts probably don't, you know until we find evidence that memory echoes are tangible in a different overlaying universe or something equally absurd.
I'm constantly baffled by the number of educated, intelligent people I meet who laugh at the idea of God, or astrology, or crystal healing, but then say with a completely straight face that they believe in ghosts.
I'm constantly baffled by the number of educated, intelligent people I meet who laugh at the idea of God, or astrology, or crystal healing, but then say with a completely straight face that they believe in ghosts.
Just trading one hat for another.
To be fair, almost everyone believes in luck or some other nebulous superstitious concept. It's a natural part of being human to distill complex concepts into something simple and anthropomorphized.
I think ghosts are one of many common beliefs that are wrong. I am open to being wrong on this though. Not because I want ghosts to exist but because humanity is incredibly intelligent and I don't want to believe that everything our ancestors believed was wrong.
I've had the same experience as the OP several times. A few years back, I was naive enough to think that common superstition & believing in the supernatural (non-religious) was a thing of the past, but no. People believe in ghosts and souls and psychics, and cite stuff like 21 grams and other ridiculous myths, seemingly unable to approach anything they hear or read critically. Someone said they heard a knocking sound in a room once, therefore ghosts.
Guess this turned into a rant of sorts. It's now over.
I was at this party the other day, and a few people had their phones out with some "ghost hunting" application. A bunch of other people were gathered around them, helping them "hunt." I thought it was a cute gag at first, but then I realized they were dead serious, no pun intended. Not only did they all believe in ghosts, but many of them were truly convinced that an application on their phone could help them find ghosts.
So I asked my wife who was not present at the party. Believes in ghosts. I asked my best friend, also not present; also believes in ghosts. I asked other friends, found 1 that didn't.
So I thought maybe it was a religious thing, but most of them are not religious. Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Is ghost-belief really as prevalent in the modern Western world as it is among my circle?
To avoid being lambasted publicly, I'll simply say that I've had experiences that have led me to believe that ghosts are more probable than improbable. If you want to know my story, PM me.
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People like having something intangible or unrealistic to believe in. Religion exists for a reasons and many that lack that type of faith find similar beliefs somewhere else.
Exactly this. I have a few "beliefs" like that as well. It's weird, I act like my beliefs are true, although I know they are not, for example, due to my "superstition" I will always see the positive in a situation (I believe in a kind of reverse Karma, if something bad happens, something good with happen to "even it out") although I know that it isn't true. I metaphorically let myself watch the clouds to see patterns in a way that can be reassuring.
I will never argue with anyone that it's actually true. I tend to play stupid with it, and only count the cases where it applies. Don't try to talk me out of it. It's obviously true.
There is nothing in science that says Ghosts can't be real.
It is better to say science simply doesn't say anything about ghosts. A part of me would actually be surprised if we didn't eventually encounter something Ghost-like.
We live in a medium of space-time capable of propagation of matter and electromagnetism. Thus far we have only found simple waves propagating in our world of mass-energy. By Ghost-like I mean something of greater complexity, propagation of signals which far exceed the current complexity of what's being propagated. Anywayz that's my futurist speculation talking.
For all practical matters, ghosts are not proven by science because we have absolutely no repeatable or experimental evidence regarding them. Even with the advent of youtube and literally billions of cell phones/cameras carried day to day, no one has found any credible evidence of ghosts whatsoever.
You would think that someone somewhere would be able to find something about ghosts with cameras ever present. Without any kind of observable evidence, science says nothing about ghosts. Lack of evidence does not mean it does not exist. That would be bad logic. After all, recently evidence of Ball lightning as a real phenomena has come to light within the past decade or so. (this after centuries of only anecdotal evidence)
But without repeatability or even observability, ghosts do not fall within the realm of currently known real & natural phenomena.
The sheer popularity of Ghost Hunters and the other paranormal shows on t.v. alone should tell you a bit about this.
If anything, most Christian churches don't believe in ghosts. It doesn't make sense in their theological world-view.
Actually, ghosts have been a part of Judeo-Christian folklore for a long time. They're even mentioned in the Bible. Jesus is even mistaken for one.
Indeed, the existence of souls and spirits are very prominently part of Judeo-Christian belief systems.
Aren't being a part of the folklore and in the established theology different things?
How does the concept of spirits remaining on Earth make sense when they're supposed to be judged and sent either to Heaven or Hell? The only way for a spirit to remain on Earth would be if God allowed it, and that would mean God is postponing judgment on that spirit.
Aren't being a part of the folklore and in the established theology different things?
Except they are. Ghost and spirit are interchangeable terms, and spirits are most certainly a part of Christian theology.
How does the concept of spirits remaining on Earth make sense when they're supposed to be judged and sent either to Heaven or Hell? The only way for a spirit to remain on Earth would be if God allowed it, and that would mean God is postponing judgment on that spirit.
Well first of all, exactly when judgment occurs varies per tradition. It may come immediately after death, it may come at the end of time with the return of Jesus and the coming of the Kingdom of God.
Second, the point is that saying Christianity is incompatible with a belief in ghosts is clearly problematic when belief in ghosts and wayward spirits has existed — and clearly still does exist — since Christianity has been around and long before.
You would think that someone somewhere would be able to find something about ghosts with cameras ever present. Without any kind of observable evidence, science says nothing about ghosts. Lack of evidence does not mean it does not exist. That would be bad logic.
Except failure to disprove does not mean there is no evidence for absence. As you have said, people have actively been looking for ghosts in places where ghosts and paranormal phenomena have been reported, and have found no evidence to substantiate claims.
After all, recently evidence of Ball lightning as a real phenomena has come to light within the past decade or so. (this after centuries of only anecdotal evidence)
I believe that ghosts exist and I'm unaffiliated with any religion. Boyfriend blames it on the "good Catholic upbringing" but there are a lot of atheist Mexican-Americans who believe in ghosts. It's just a part of our culture.
Of course, most of the stuff I watch on Extranormal de Impacto is just crap. But I still watch it when I can. I think it's telling when the Mexican version of "Sightings" is on primetime Spanish network tv.
Well first of all, exactly when judgment occurs varies per tradition. It may come immediately after death, it may come at the end of time with the return of Jesus and the coming of the Kingdom of God.
Yeah, it's important to note that traditions vary.
Which brings me to a follow-up question: what, precisely, do we mean by "ghosts"? Are we talking about souls? Are we talking about hauntings? What qualities do we attribute to these "ghosts" that we are asking whether or not exist?
So I asked my wife who was not present at the party. Believes in ghosts. I asked my best friend, also not present; also believes in ghosts. I asked other friends, found 1 that didn't.
So I thought maybe it was a religious thing, but most of them are not religious. Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Is ghost-belief really as prevalent in the modern Western world as it is among my circle?
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The sheer popularity of Ghost Hunters and the other paranormal shows on t.v. alone should tell you a bit about this.
If anything, most Christian churches don't believe in ghosts. It doesn't make sense in their theological world-view. Demons and people who do things with Satan? Sure, but those are separate from ghosts. The entire concept of spirits staying behind to... open doors to alert people of their presence? How the **** does that make sense when you're supposed to go to God to receive judgment immediately after death? If God is truly omniscient and omnipotent, then you couldn't hide from him after death even if you tried.
Ghosts don't make sense in conventional Christian theology.
Like Jivanmukta said, I think many people believe in ghosts and UFOs and ***** because they need something to believe in. Something that is just out of hand's reach, but clearly visible elsewhere. A mystery, in other words.
I wanted to believe in UFOs and ghosts for much the same reason. Then I grew out of it. Now I find them as a source of entertainment.
Yep. Ghosts don't make sense in the theology of Hinduism or any of the other Abrahamic religions either. I think it's interesting how superstition and religion mix even when they're mutually exclusive. For instance, my family (hardcore Catholic) has made statements alluding to reincarnation and ghosts, despite neither of these being a 'thing' in Catholicism.
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But then again science is fairly certain dark matter exists, and that's kinda just ghost matter, except it can have some explosive results. haha.
Just trading one hat for another.
To be fair, almost everyone believes in luck or some other nebulous superstitious concept. It's a natural part of being human to distill complex concepts into something simple and anthropomorphized.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Guess this turned into a rant of sorts. It's now over.
To avoid being lambasted publicly, I'll simply say that I've had experiences that have led me to believe that ghosts are more probable than improbable. If you want to know my story, PM me.
Also, I'm an atheistic Taoist.
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Exactly this. I have a few "beliefs" like that as well. It's weird, I act like my beliefs are true, although I know they are not, for example, due to my "superstition" I will always see the positive in a situation (I believe in a kind of reverse Karma, if something bad happens, something good with happen to "even it out") although I know that it isn't true. I metaphorically let myself watch the clouds to see patterns in a way that can be reassuring.
I will never argue with anyone that it's actually true. I tend to play stupid with it, and only count the cases where it applies. Don't try to talk me out of it. It's obviously true.
It is better to say science simply doesn't say anything about ghosts. A part of me would actually be surprised if we didn't eventually encounter something Ghost-like.
We live in a medium of space-time capable of propagation of matter and electromagnetism. Thus far we have only found simple waves propagating in our world of mass-energy. By Ghost-like I mean something of greater complexity, propagation of signals which far exceed the current complexity of what's being propagated. Anywayz that's my futurist speculation talking.
For all practical matters, ghosts are not proven by science because we have absolutely no repeatable or experimental evidence regarding them. Even with the advent of youtube and literally billions of cell phones/cameras carried day to day, no one has found any credible evidence of ghosts whatsoever.
You would think that someone somewhere would be able to find something about ghosts with cameras ever present. Without any kind of observable evidence, science says nothing about ghosts. Lack of evidence does not mean it does not exist. That would be bad logic. After all, recently evidence of Ball lightning as a real phenomena has come to light within the past decade or so. (this after centuries of only anecdotal evidence)
But without repeatability or even observability, ghosts do not fall within the realm of currently known real & natural phenomena.
Actually, ghosts have been a part of Judeo-Christian folklore for a long time. They're even mentioned in the Bible. Jesus is even mistaken for one.
Indeed, the existence of souls and spirits are very prominently part of Judeo-Christian belief systems.
Oh, quite the contrary...
Aren't being a part of the folklore and in the established theology different things?
How does the concept of spirits remaining on Earth make sense when they're supposed to be judged and sent either to Heaven or Hell? The only way for a spirit to remain on Earth would be if God allowed it, and that would mean God is postponing judgment on that spirit.
Except they are. Ghost and spirit are interchangeable terms, and spirits are most certainly a part of Christian theology.
Well first of all, exactly when judgment occurs varies per tradition. It may come immediately after death, it may come at the end of time with the return of Jesus and the coming of the Kingdom of God.
Second, the point is that saying Christianity is incompatible with a belief in ghosts is clearly problematic when belief in ghosts and wayward spirits has existed — and clearly still does exist — since Christianity has been around and long before.
Except failure to disprove does not mean there is no evidence for absence. As you have said, people have actively been looking for ghosts in places where ghosts and paranormal phenomena have been reported, and have found no evidence to substantiate claims.
I believe you mean the past century.
Of course, most of the stuff I watch on Extranormal de Impacto is just crap. But I still watch it when I can. I think it's telling when the Mexican version of "Sightings" is on primetime Spanish network tv.
True.
Fair enough.
Which brings me to a follow-up question: what, precisely, do we mean by "ghosts"? Are we talking about souls? Are we talking about hauntings? What qualities do we attribute to these "ghosts" that we are asking whether or not exist?