As the title says, one of Fred Phelps' sons who made a break from the WBC years ago has been reporting that his father is near death. More intriguing is that the WBC founder and figurehead has apparently been excommunicated from his own church for months and the WBC faithful have kept that under wraps. Details as for why that is are scarce as the WBC isn't letting anyone outside the church see the dying Phelps. I imagine more will slip the embargo in the coming weeks.
It is at times like this I'm sad I do not live in the US. Would've loved to be there at his funeral to blast "ding-dong, the witch is dead" from directional speakers at the funeral.
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We have laboured long to build a heaven, only to find it populated with horrors.
It is at times like this I'm sad I do not live in the US. Would've loved to be there at his funeral to blast "ding-dong, the witch is dead" from directional speakers at the funeral.
Normally I advocate restraint and decorum at the death of anyone, no matter how disliked. But given the WBC's particular tactics, I gotta say turnabout is fair play here. I'd keep it topical, though: "God hates bigots."
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
More intriguing is that the WBC founder and figurehead has apparently been excommunicated from his own church for months and the WBC faithful have kept that under wraps.
HA! Even the Westboro people don't want him. I love it.
1. With Fred gone, who are the candidates to assume the mantle of "the most hated man in America"?
2. (More seriously) Is it proper to cheer the death of an evil person? I'm happy to hear that Fred is dead; and I was very happy a few years back when they finally nailed bin Laden. But I'd like to believe that these cases my happiness had nothing to do with the death of human beings as such, but rather with the evil incarnate in them, which had become so intertwined with their identities as to be inseparable.
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Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
The man is dead. I won't celebrate nor will I mourn his death. I didn't know the man and as far as we know he was doing what he truly believed in his heart to be right. I'm not advocating his church or anything that they stand for but, a man that stoic is rare to find indeed.
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
@Highroller He'd started to advocate forgiveness for excommunicated members of the WBC and so the rest of them threw him out along with his daughter, I think.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
2. (More seriously) Is it proper to cheer the death of an evil person? I'm happy to hear that Fred is dead; and I was very happy a few years back when they finally nailed bin Laden. But I'd like to believe that these cases my happiness had nothing to do with the death of human beings as such, but rather with the evil incarnate in them, which had become so intertwined with their identities as to be inseparable.
I think it's very much acceptable to celebrate when someone who hurt a great many is no longer able to do so. It's much the same as mourning a great person you didn't have a personal relationship with because they will no longer be able to continue making positive impact.
The only thing I can find to mourn in this case is a life wasted on hate, otherwise I believe the world is better off without the man and I don't feel bad or awkward for saying that. Not in the least.
I didn't know the man and as far as we know he was doing what he truly believed in his heart to be right. I'm not advocating his church or anything that they stand for but, a man that stoic is rare to find indeed.
There's nothing to admire about moral purity when the morality in question is deranged. It only makes the badness more consistent. The world would be a better place if all such misguided people were more willing to compromise or abandon their alleged morals.
That said, I rather suspect Phelps and the WBC's motives were rather less idealistic than they'd like us to believe. They're litigation trolls. They've made quite a tidy sum of money by provoking people and then suing their pants off.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
(More seriously) Is it proper to cheer the death of an evil person? I'm happy to hear that Fred is dead; and I was very happy a few years back when they finally nailed bin Laden. But I'd like to believe that these cases my happiness had nothing to do with the death of human beings as such, but rather with the evil incarnate in them, which had become so intertwined with their identities as to be inseparable.
This is just rationalization. Nobody is pure evil, only your perception of them is.
Honestly, I don't really think all that many people were actually happy Bin Laden was dead. I think they, like me were just relieved, which is an entirely different feeling that people may confuse with actual happiness. As a culture, the United States had a rather large weight lifted off it's shoulders that day, as for ten years he was our boogey man. We were waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak. He was symbolically intertwined with the concept of the war on terror, and with him dead things grew a lot less scary for people.
Alternatively, they were feeling spite they confused for happiness, which is what most people mean when they say they're happy someone is dead (Pro tip: If you want to spit on their grave, you're not 'happy' they're dead, what you are feeling is more spite).
The man is dead. I won't celebrate nor will I mourn his death. I didn't know the man and as far as we know he was doing what he truly believed in his heart to be right. I'm not advocating his church or anything that they stand for but, a man that stoic is rare to find indeed.
Not really. I could throw a rock in the middle of an empty desert and hit someone sure of their own righteousness. Most terrorists are doing what they truly believe in their hearts to be right. Most bigots like to pass off their fear and hatred as righteous so that the community will reinforce it rather than question it. They may even believe it too. It doesn't make them good people or worthy of any kind of respect.
I didn't say he was a good person or that he was worthy of respect. Are you really comparing a person who protests soldiers funerals to terrorists? I'd say you need to have your moral compass reevaluated. When did fred phelps ever physically harm anyone?
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
There's a reason why the man is so hated. I'd argue that the emotional harm he did to some people is worse than most physical pain that they could suffer.
I didn't say he was a good person or that he was worthy of respect. Are you really comparing a person who protests soldiers funerals to terrorists? I'd say you need to have your moral compass reevaluated. When did fred phelps ever physically harm anyone?
If the shoe fits...
Yeah, terrorists are worse, but Fred Phelps was still a very, very bad man.
I didn't say he was a good person or that he was worthy of respect. Are you really comparing a person who protests soldiers funerals to terrorists? I'd say you need to have your moral compass reevaluated. When did fred phelps ever physically harm anyone?
I was questioning your assertion that his brand of self-righteous hatred and 'stoicism' was in any rare. Obviously on the grand scale of 'People I don't like', Phelps is significantly less awful than your average terrorist, sure. I wasn't trying to compare them as equally as evil, just equally deluded.
We don't really know what he's done to his followers to keep them in line up until his ouster. But even if some form of physical intimidation wasn't involved in keeping his family in his little cult, isn't causing undue stress and emotional hardship to thousands of people grieving for loved ones not also terrible? It's one thing to have your beliefs and even campaign those beliefs. These people are funeral trolls and actively sought to hurt people, and, as Blinking pointed out, sue them when they understandably lashed out.
This is just rationalization. Nobody is pure evil, only your perception of them is.
I never said I thought Phelps was "pure evil." No one can be and live, because evil by nature is divisive and destructive; and so the purely evil person would have to destroy himself concurrently with whatever else he could touch. But the idea is that in a person such as Phelps or bin Laden -- these were elderly men, mind you -- the warped ideology of evil is so intractable that no rational argument, no emotional plea, and no unvarnished experience could possibly move them from their convictions... convictions which, of course, lead to harmful activity in the world. So it remains for the great leveler Death to put them down, and for the rest of us to feel happy/relieved when that happens.
And on reflection I would say that I was indeed relieved when bin Laden died, but my feelings regarding Fred Phelps death would gravitate more towards actual happiness. Because I had nothing personally to fear from Phelps or his ilk, ergo no fear of which to be relieved; I am not gay, and in any event I live far away from his church's sphere of activities. So if I felt good to hear that he was dead, then I felt happiness. Is that crass or crude? I certainly would not seek to repay him in kind; if there were to be a funeral for Fred and if I were given the opportunity, at no real cost of money or time, to go picket it, I would not do so. But I still feel that with his death a hardened kernel of incarnate evil has left the world. And I'm happy about that.
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Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
It is one "eyewitness" account and everyone denies what he is saying is true. Additionally eyewitness testimony is one of the least reliable forms of evidence utilized in a court.
If this is true I do not condone it. I don't condone the man's views anyway but, I would definitely find him exceedingly more vile than I already do.
All that I have to say is good riddance. I am a Jew, my best friend is a lesbian, and another one of my friends is bisexual. We are good people and I don't give a **** about anyone who wants to argue that point.
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That church is almost all related so, even the kids are endangered of becoming like him and his daughter.
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“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Normally I advocate restraint and decorum at the death of anyone, no matter how disliked. But given the WBC's particular tactics, I gotta say turnabout is fair play here. I'd keep it topical, though: "God hates bigots."
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
HA! Even the Westboro people don't want him. I love it.
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May he find the rest he denied so many others.
1. With Fred gone, who are the candidates to assume the mantle of "the most hated man in America"?
2. (More seriously) Is it proper to cheer the death of an evil person? I'm happy to hear that Fred is dead; and I was very happy a few years back when they finally nailed bin Laden. But I'd like to believe that these cases my happiness had nothing to do with the death of human beings as such, but rather with the evil incarnate in them, which had become so intertwined with their identities as to be inseparable.
Art is life itself.
I think it's very much acceptable to celebrate when someone who hurt a great many is no longer able to do so. It's much the same as mourning a great person you didn't have a personal relationship with because they will no longer be able to continue making positive impact.
The only thing I can find to mourn in this case is a life wasted on hate, otherwise I believe the world is better off without the man and I don't feel bad or awkward for saying that. Not in the least.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
That said, I rather suspect Phelps and the WBC's motives were rather less idealistic than they'd like us to believe. They're litigation trolls. They've made quite a tidy sum of money by provoking people and then suing their pants off.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
This is just rationalization. Nobody is pure evil, only your perception of them is.
Honestly, I don't really think all that many people were actually happy Bin Laden was dead. I think they, like me were just relieved, which is an entirely different feeling that people may confuse with actual happiness. As a culture, the United States had a rather large weight lifted off it's shoulders that day, as for ten years he was our boogey man. We were waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak. He was symbolically intertwined with the concept of the war on terror, and with him dead things grew a lot less scary for people.
Alternatively, they were feeling spite they confused for happiness, which is what most people mean when they say they're happy someone is dead (Pro tip: If you want to spit on their grave, you're not 'happy' they're dead, what you are feeling is more spite).
Not really. I could throw a rock in the middle of an empty desert and hit someone sure of their own righteousness. Most terrorists are doing what they truly believe in their hearts to be right. Most bigots like to pass off their fear and hatred as righteous so that the community will reinforce it rather than question it. They may even believe it too. It doesn't make them good people or worthy of any kind of respect.
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If their motivations both come from deeply held beliefs? Yes
There's a reason why the man is so hated. I'd argue that the emotional harm he did to some people is worse than most physical pain that they could suffer.
If the shoe fits...
Yeah, terrorists are worse, but Fred Phelps was still a very, very bad man.
I was questioning your assertion that his brand of self-righteous hatred and 'stoicism' was in any rare. Obviously on the grand scale of 'People I don't like', Phelps is significantly less awful than your average terrorist, sure. I wasn't trying to compare them as equally as evil, just equally deluded.
We don't really know what he's done to his followers to keep them in line up until his ouster. But even if some form of physical intimidation wasn't involved in keeping his family in his little cult, isn't causing undue stress and emotional hardship to thousands of people grieving for loved ones not also terrible? It's one thing to have your beliefs and even campaign those beliefs. These people are funeral trolls and actively sought to hurt people, and, as Blinking pointed out, sue them when they understandably lashed out.
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Apparently he got excommunicated for attempting to moderate his views. The other higher-ups in his church didn't like that.
That's true, but I meant in the decades previous, when he managed to warp so many people into the church.
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Source or you're just spouting nonsense.
I never said I thought Phelps was "pure evil." No one can be and live, because evil by nature is divisive and destructive; and so the purely evil person would have to destroy himself concurrently with whatever else he could touch. But the idea is that in a person such as Phelps or bin Laden -- these were elderly men, mind you -- the warped ideology of evil is so intractable that no rational argument, no emotional plea, and no unvarnished experience could possibly move them from their convictions... convictions which, of course, lead to harmful activity in the world. So it remains for the great leveler Death to put them down, and for the rest of us to feel happy/relieved when that happens.
And on reflection I would say that I was indeed relieved when bin Laden died, but my feelings regarding Fred Phelps death would gravitate more towards actual happiness. Because I had nothing personally to fear from Phelps or his ilk, ergo no fear of which to be relieved; I am not gay, and in any event I live far away from his church's sphere of activities. So if I felt good to hear that he was dead, then I felt happiness. Is that crass or crude? I certainly would not seek to repay him in kind; if there were to be a funeral for Fred and if I were given the opportunity, at no real cost of money or time, to go picket it, I would not do so. But I still feel that with his death a hardened kernel of incarnate evil has left the world. And I'm happy about that.
Baseless claims aren't evidence that he ever beat his kids or his wife.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
It is one "eyewitness" account and everyone denies what he is saying is true. Additionally eyewitness testimony is one of the least reliable forms of evidence utilized in a court.
If this is true I do not condone it. I don't condone the man's views anyway but, I would definitely find him exceedingly more vile than I already do.
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