Thinking of playing a whisper gnome conjurer/malconvoker//beguiler. Basically, someone who stays hidden and controls the field through illusions and summons.
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So, 18-16-15-15-15-14 or 18-15-15-14-14-12. Yep, going with the first set.
So does anyone have anything else to say on mine, or am i good to go?
It's good, however I'd convert as many of those gold coins to platinum coins as I could if I were you, I'd rather carry <200 coins than <1500 (or something like that)
Update: Yukora's character is nearly done, so now what I need is for you to provide feedback as to what adventures we'd run. Namely, if you've already played one of these, let me know so we don't do it.
White Plume Mountain (Adapted)
Environvmental Impact
Hasken's Manor
Into the Frozen Waste
Start at the End
The Treasure of the Black Veils
An Eye for an Eye
Fang, Beak, and Claw
Shoals of Intrigue
Update: Yukora's character is nearly done, so now what I need is for you to provide feedback as to what adventures we'd run. Namely, if you've already played one of these, let me know so we don't do it.
White Plume Mountain (Adapted)
Environvmental Impact
Hasken's Manor
Into the Frozen Waste
Start at the End
The Treasure of the Black Veils
An Eye for an Eye
Fang, Beak, and Claw
Shoals of Intrigue
Just chiming in to say that I've done none of those. Published adventures are kind of new to me, so I'm up for anything.
Private Mod Note
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
Just chiming in to say that I've done none of those. Published adventures are kind of new to me, so I'm up for anything.
Same here.
Also, Yukora, try not to just outpower the rest of us, okay? Battlefield control wizards are basically the most powerful characters outside PunPun, and I don't want to be useless.
Also, Yukora, try not to just outpower the rest of us, okay? Battlefield control wizards are basically the most powerful characters outside PunPun, and I don't want to be useless.
He's half-dervish, half-malconvoker. Summoning stuff and then dancing around and slitting throats. Yeah, don't ask
Battlefield control wizards are basically the most powerful characters outside PunPun.
So, you are absolutely certain about that, because I have some builds that might break your argument. You know, a chronosavant one who was able to achieve infinite actions and a monk dealing some nine billion damage each hit.
Oh, and plenty of others. Don't even get me started on Dark Speech and Dark Cheese Shuffle. Or Planar Shepherds. Or Permanent Shadow Magic Time Stop. Or Circle Magic. Or bard Summon Instrument: Church Organs. Or any of the arguments that bring physics to D&D. Or the warforged who uses Incarnum sandals to run atop his opponents and fall on them, dealing 20d6 damage at level 1.
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Let me rephrase, battlefield control wizards are the most powerful characters that do not require letter-of-the-law rules exploitation.
I mean, PunPun himself is a major loophole exploit. I have to assume anything involving infinite damage also is. Just, rules as written intend for battlefield control wizards to be stupidly, brokenly overpowered and outstrip all other types of character. They do not intend to allow PunPun to exist, or I suspect most of the other stuff you mentioned.
Also the planar shepherd is just plain stupid. I don't understand who created that class, and they should probably be fired as a D&D writer and possibly attacked. Physically. With blunt, hardcover copies of their own handbook.
Wizard and Sorcerer both achieve infinity through corebook wish exploitation, or just power levels over nine thousand through timestop nova. Both of these are fairly obvious to most about anyone who has read through the rulebooks.
Most other optimization is just stacking a lot of similar stuff together and seeing what we get. The question is to what extent we do it. If we do it enough, we end up with 1,067,212 attacks in a single action. If we do a little bit less of it, we only end up with charge-leap-power-pounce that deals about a thousand damage on average.
Then there are the ones that work on wonky interaction, like d2 crusader. These are rules that are inherently broken, and rely on assumptions on the players. In this case, the assumption is that no one would use weapons with d2 damage on them. Ergo with anything that has Wish as a spell-like-ability: Seems like no one thought I could Mind Switch to something like that, or just dominate it, completely breaking the game.
Then the rules that just don't make any sense. Like any command word item of any spell ever and Leadership. And True Creation. Using these can hardly be counted as exploitation because frankly, any possible use of them often ends degenerate.
Private Mod Note
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I suppose my definition of 'rules as intended' is a bit different from yours. To me, the game was intended to create powerful and interesting characters, not to do things that seem beyond the scope of a non-divine fantasy character. The most powerful fantasy wizards I've ever read about do not have infinite power. The best fighters cannot attack several million times a second.
I'll be honest; I don't know the rules in anywhere near the level of detail you do. The biggest "exploit" I've ever seen was in playing Pathfinder and using Craft Wondrous Item to halve the costs of all our items. I just have a general idea how the game and characters are supposed to feel. And everything you're mentioning seems to me like a rules exploit that breaks that feel.
And everything you're mentioning seems to me like a rules exploit that breaks that feel.
This all depends on what you are expecting from the campaign. Have you ever watched Wuxia? Playing with optimized builds is kind of like that.
I mean, people in those movies do attack millions of times each second.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Don't worry, I've got published adventures picked out, and I'm just going through them with a fine comb.
Stats:
So, 18-16-15-15-15-14 or 18-15-15-14-14-12. Yep, going with the first set.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
It's good, however I'd convert as many of those gold coins to platinum coins as I could if I were you, I'd rather carry <200 coins than <1500 (or something like that)
White Plume Mountain (Adapted)
Environvmental Impact
Hasken's Manor
Into the Frozen Waste
Start at the End
The Treasure of the Black Veils
An Eye for an Eye
Fang, Beak, and Claw
Shoals of Intrigue
Just chiming in to say that I've done none of those. Published adventures are kind of new to me, so I'm up for anything.
Same here.
Also, Yukora, try not to just outpower the rest of us, okay? Battlefield control wizards are basically the most powerful characters outside PunPun, and I don't want to be useless.
He's half-dervish, half-malconvoker. Summoning stuff and then dancing around and slitting throats. Yeah, don't ask
Any idea when he'll be done? I'm way overly impatient to get going. I've been sitting on my fireball cannon for way too long
I think you got the two concepts mixed up. The oen I am working on now is a Dervish//Swiftblade, with first level in Swiftblade coming next level.
Standard gish with self-buffs haste for everyone, and then going to town with slicing and dicing.
I don't think you'll have to worry about me breaking anything but the initiative count, though.
Here's the sheet, if any of you would like to look it over. All I have left to do is the bio.
So, you are absolutely certain about that, because I have some builds that might break your argument. You know, a chronosavant one who was able to achieve infinite actions and a monk dealing some nine billion damage each hit.
Oh, and plenty of others. Don't even get me started on Dark Speech and Dark Cheese Shuffle. Or Planar Shepherds. Or Permanent Shadow Magic Time Stop. Or Circle Magic. Or bard Summon Instrument: Church Organs. Or any of the arguments that bring physics to D&D. Or the warforged who uses Incarnum sandals to run atop his opponents and fall on them, dealing 20d6 damage at level 1.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I mean, PunPun himself is a major loophole exploit. I have to assume anything involving infinite damage also is. Just, rules as written intend for battlefield control wizards to be stupidly, brokenly overpowered and outstrip all other types of character. They do not intend to allow PunPun to exist, or I suspect most of the other stuff you mentioned.
Also the planar shepherd is just plain stupid. I don't understand who created that class, and they should probably be fired as a D&D writer and possibly attacked. Physically. With blunt, hardcover copies of their own handbook.
Most other optimization is just stacking a lot of similar stuff together and seeing what we get. The question is to what extent we do it. If we do it enough, we end up with 1,067,212 attacks in a single action. If we do a little bit less of it, we only end up with charge-leap-power-pounce that deals about a thousand damage on average.
Then there are the ones that work on wonky interaction, like d2 crusader. These are rules that are inherently broken, and rely on assumptions on the players. In this case, the assumption is that no one would use weapons with d2 damage on them. Ergo with anything that has Wish as a spell-like-ability: Seems like no one thought I could Mind Switch to something like that, or just dominate it, completely breaking the game.
Then the rules that just don't make any sense. Like any command word item of any spell ever and Leadership. And True Creation. Using these can hardly be counted as exploitation because frankly, any possible use of them often ends degenerate.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'll be honest; I don't know the rules in anywhere near the level of detail you do. The biggest "exploit" I've ever seen was in playing Pathfinder and using Craft Wondrous Item to halve the costs of all our items. I just have a general idea how the game and characters are supposed to feel. And everything you're mentioning seems to me like a rules exploit that breaks that feel.
This all depends on what you are expecting from the campaign. Have you ever watched Wuxia? Playing with optimized builds is kind of like that.
I mean, people in those movies do attack millions of times each second.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Ummm...you do know that my character is a swiftblade, right?
UUUJin-Gitaxias, Core AugurUUU
Modern
WWWHatebearsWWW
I wasn't aware of that, no.
Why, is that a problem?
Not as long as its not with you. Our other sides are different enough that we should be fine.
Plus, the more haste the better, amirite?
UUUJin-Gitaxias, Core AugurUUU
Modern
WWWHatebearsWWW
Absolutely.
I just feel sorry for the others. Their ears are going to hate us for continually shattering the sound barrier.
Here you go! Post away, brave adventurers!
*Raises hand* I'm here. Maybe PM people who haven't checked in?