MTG Salvation

okay thats enough of the Wall's of Text within quotation marks.

Amadi, Ain, please summarize what you were just discussing in a single paragraph each, as I have no intention of reading those massive walls of text.

Also, here is a rough explanation of the basic theme that is going to start you guys out on the campaign:

Basically, I think amadi is arguing for non-good versions of VoP based on the flavor aspect of the feat. I agree, I take the VoP to be that you give up an aspect of yourself (your wealth), in order to gain benifits. It's a feat disigned with that flavor, but it assumes that a charecter can only give away his belongings to the poor.
As far as a demon or undead or even Gaia NEEDING the objects, it's not about whether or not they need them, it's about a charecter showing devotion towards them, saying "I need not these things if my power comes from you." It's much more flavourful then "I give my money to the poor, therefore i've been granted these powers." But who gives them that power? a god? Karma? the poor themselves (lol)? If this power is given BY someone, why then can it not be given by someone else equally, if not more, powerful. That's my nickel on the subject.

Anyways, I want to know if you, DC would allow a non-good variant of VoP, given the ammount of flavor it could bring to any alignment. I am aware this would create a conflict in certain feats within the BoED, which ARE strictly good (stigmata, nimbus of light, etc.), but, I'd be willing to budge on the feats in favor of more flavor to my charecter. (the proposed reasons for my charecter wanting VoP are in my above post)

I think the most you could be allowed to bend it would be up to neutral (So LG,CG,NG,CN,LN,True N), the arguments for why evil would willingly submit themselves to Poverty is just too much of a stretch.

I'll have my character finished up this weekend, i am not in Summer Midterms so im a bit short on PC time.

Quote from Sepiriel

I think the most you could be allowed to bend it would be up to neutral (So LG,CG,NG,CN,LN,True N), the arguments for why evil would willingly submit themselves to Poverty is just too much of a stretch.

I'll have my character finished up this weekend, i am not in Summer Midterms so im a bit short on PC time.

I am going to agree with Sepiriel, Neutral is the limit of what I will allow with Vow of Poverty.

because that in my opinion does not fit with the goals of an evil character.

I think the flavor problem here is that we traditionally think of evil as being materialistic and good as being spiritualistic. That's why it makes sense for evil to sell its soul to become rich, and for good to give away its material possessions to become enlightened. They have different sets of values, which is why their behavior differs.

Ethically, such a distinction doesn't seem to have much use in defining good and evil, of course. As I said, alignments are not good ethical guidelines. It seems to be derived from vaguely Christian/Platonic reasoning, what with the spirit above the body and so forth, and this is the basis of the flavor. You can give an account for how an evil perspective could ethically come by a vow of poverty, but it has zero flavor.

I think that dynamic would be best achieved through something that probably barely even resembles the vow of poverty. Like forced tributes. The actual vow against having any possessions at all seems almost convoluted from the evil perspective (especially since evil wants to find loopholes like the one you mentioned). Also, I feel like you're evoking Liliana's story here.

I am still waiting on Id Igo to post a character. Additionally Seraph Prime just PM'ed me stating that he is dropping from the Adventure. So that means we need at least one more player for the adventure.

EDIT: okay I really can't start this adventure with just two active players and another coming into the adventure at a later point, so unless someone else shows interest in the adventure this one is on hold until further notice.

*slides smoothly into place*

I will have a level 20 Scout/Fighter(/Asssassin? /) ready by tomorrow night. How does the DM feel about poison/ravages/afflictions?

EDIT: actually, you know what, I am sorry to say this, but things have come up and I never actually got around to developing the campaign to the level that I wanted. The only NPC I actually managed to get anywhere near finishing was the Empress and that simply isn't enough to run a campaign off of. So I am either going to have to put this on hold until a much much later date when I am not as held up with other stuff, or cancel this entirely.

Sorry Ain Soph Aur, I know I said I would run this, but I really am not coming up with anything viable for running this campaign. I wish I had been able to devote more time to this, but other things in my life kept me busy.