I'm meaning more the classes than prestige classes. You took levels of monk, hexblade and anarch just to get the one bonus from them you wanted and will probably never return to them. I can see why people would consider that objectionable.
I understand why you made the choices that they did. I'm just saying they were at the expense of the character's flavor. That's the issue.
That's a fallacy in it's finest. Classes do not define a character, the abilities the character has do.
You don't "train to become a monk", you train in combat and self-discipline. It is very much possible that the same training could give you divine grace, as a form of personal strength, which is very much what you trained to be.
For example: Ninja 1 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 3 could very much be result of one single place of training - for example a fighter school where the students trained without armour and were told to take every advantage that they could in battle. This is, from flavor point of view, no more complicated than Fighter 6 or Rogue 6.
Classes aren't absolutes. A character with a lot of classes doesn't go around advertising himself as: "Monk-Warrior-Thug", he probably calls himself a warrior, probably telling that he specializes in fighting in light equipment.
I agree that there are some oddball abilities there, like smite chaos and the anticonstruct one, and I am fine with those being removed (Even the hexblade curse, even if it could be classified as a magical ability from wizard training.), but I want to make clear that I don't believe that having multiple classes on a character means that they are weird or "bad" characters from flavour point of view.
Maybe try for items that are less complex in terms of the variety of effects they grant.
The most complicated item is my headpiece, and it's the only item that grants those effects (Untyped bonuses to charisma checks/charisma abilities/the lovely aura.). I suppose I could alter the belt, though. (And maybe move the headband of persuasion away from the bicorn, to my cloak, where it should fit by MIC guidelines.)
The reason is, even though you are an epic level character, your prestige class is not epic level. So when it says you get bonus feats from that class, your selection is limited to non-epic feats until you progress in the prestige class long enough for it to be epic.
So, a powerful wizard who takes on the study of loremaster and in his studies learns new abilities cannot learn abilities that are relevant to him, but because he hasn't been a loremaster for a long time he must learn abilities that are relatively weak compared to what he already can do?
That doesn't really make sense from RAI viewpoint, RAW viewpoint or Flavour viewpoint. While I know it is ultimately your call, I still don't see why you think that way.
I realize that you are already showing some restraint, I'm just reminding you that you may need to show more (or less, as the situation dictates) while actually playing. That will ensure that everyone playing will remain happy and not take issue with you or have a long, strung out OOC argument.
Obviously. I haven't really done anything absolutely broken since metamorphosing to 12-headed hydra in Azure Bonds. Most of the arguments I've been part of after it are about my characters. Not what I actually did with them, but about their potential.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
That's a fallacy in it's finest. Classes do not define a character, the abilities the character has do.
I don't see how my statement was fallacious at all. I'm not suggesting that your character is wholly defined by the classes you choose. I'm suggesting that the classes you choose contribute very little to your flavorful concept, being selected purely for the mechanical gain which you make from taking levels in them. Everyone can do this to some degree, but when it's taken to an excessive degree, the overall character begins to suffer.
You don't "train to become a monk", you train in combat and self-discipline. It is very much possible that the same training could give you divine grace, as a form of personal strength, which is very much what you trained to be.
For example: Ninja 1 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 3 could very much be result of one single place of training - for example a fighter school where the students trained without armour and were told to take every advantage that they could in battle. This is, from flavor point of view, no more complicated than Fighter 6 or Rogue 6.
Classes aren't absolutes. A character with a lot of classes doesn't go around advertising himself as: "Monk-Warrior-Thug", he probably calls himself a warrior, probably telling that he specializes in fighting in light equipment.
I agree that there are some oddball abilities there, like smite chaos and the anticonstruct one, and I am fine with those being removed (Even the hexblade curse, even if it could be classified as a magical ability from wizard training.), but I want to make clear that I don't believe that having multiple classes on a character means that they are weird or "bad" characters from flavour point of view.
I'm not saying having multiple classes is weird/bad. I'm saying going into a class just for the sake of one or two things you want to optimize your abilities is bad.
So, a powerful wizard who takes on the study of loremaster and in his studies learns new abilities cannot learn abilities that are relevant to him, but because he hasn't been a loremaster for a long time he must learn abilities that are relatively weak compared to what he already can do?
That doesn't really make sense from RAI viewpoint, RAW viewpoint or Flavour viewpoint. While I know it is ultimately your call, I still don't see why you think that way.
The loremaster is not automatically an epic prestige class. What you gain strictly from that class, prior to progressing in epic levels, is limited to non-epic material because the prestige class is at first concerned with non-epic material. To my knowledge, this is just what the rules state. Maybe someone can contribute their thoughts on it.
Obviously. I haven't really done anything absolutely broken since metamorphosing to 12-headed hydra in Azure Bonds. Most of the arguments I've been part of after it are about my characters. Not what I actually did with them, but about their potential.
Well, most people's characters have the potential to do some broken things. I think people take issue with you because you broadcast it, making it look like your intention is to make use of that potential. I'm not saying they're right or wrong when people get upset with you (I actually think the issue is more complex than that). I'm just saying it's possible for you to avoid these conflicts and arguments.
Ti'rin: AC 60, Touch 39, Flat-Footed 60, Average 53
Me: AC 60, Touch 45, Flat-Footed 44, Average 49 2/3
Ti'rin: Fort +34, Ref +51, Will +38, Average +41
Me: Fort +44, Ref +45, Will +63, Average 50 2/3
Sepiriel: Fort +42, Ref +37, Will +43, Average +41 1/3
I can understand the argument for my saves, but not for my AC, unless it would also include Ti'rin's. Further, by buffing empowered mage armor on Amarra, he gets AC to 57. In that situation, there'd be at least three of us with armor closer to 60, and many of our ACs are actually closer to 50 by default. (Sepiriel 49, Yukora 48, Halinn 42, Amadi 60, Ti'rin 60, Caex 45, Krashbot 40, Boros ???) Our average is 49.14285714, not "in the 40's".
The argument could be made that my defenses in total are over-the-top, however. (Ti'rin's are at least the same, though.) Then again, I am probably the only one in this group that doesn't play rocket tag (tm).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I hate to do this again, but I need to drop from the campaign. I'm holding everyone to a standstill, and however much I can try to convince myself that it's going to get done, it's not.
Again, I apologize.
Well, it seems that we have two open slots now. If anyone is interested in joining I can easily fit you in, but if not I will have an even easier time adjusting to a smaller party.
ASA, you invited me. I was one of the original characters, playing the adorable and utterly non-lethal Adelanrashathan, everyone's favorite dragonwrought kobold.
Can I just use her? She's gestalt, level 22, and friendly
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Your character's items will have to be redetermined according to normal starting gold (1.2 mil I think). It will be otherwise the same character (with the same bonus XP), just with different stuff.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
I'll probably turn it into what it originally was- a Mantle of Great Stealth, minus the whole "nothing can touch me" cheese.
Edit by way of repost:
I removed the cloak of Greater Cheesiness, and turned it into a Mantle of Great Stealth. I didn't calculate the total wort of all my items, but I know for a fact that that cloak and a pair of kobold-sized Boots of Swiftness were the only extra items I got from that hoard o'cash.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Now we just have to figure out your (re)entrance. I guess you're still in Tychos for some strange reason, or do you want to be the unusually quiet and invisible member of the party up 'til this point?
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Works for me. Begin posting at will. First post should bring you up to date on current events, and the last few pages should tell you where you are and such.
"Damn! What in the name of the Spider Queen's Drider pet sock puppet is going on!?"
Quote from Amadi »
Blasphemy! The system is perfect. The ability to create a spell to duplicate gods at skill check DC 10 is totally balanced and doesn't say anything about the system's viability!
That's a fallacy in it's finest. Classes do not define a character, the abilities the character has do.
You don't "train to become a monk", you train in combat and self-discipline. It is very much possible that the same training could give you divine grace, as a form of personal strength, which is very much what you trained to be.
For example: Ninja 1 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 3 could very much be result of one single place of training - for example a fighter school where the students trained without armour and were told to take every advantage that they could in battle. This is, from flavor point of view, no more complicated than Fighter 6 or Rogue 6.
Classes aren't absolutes. A character with a lot of classes doesn't go around advertising himself as: "Monk-Warrior-Thug", he probably calls himself a warrior, probably telling that he specializes in fighting in light equipment.
I agree that there are some oddball abilities there, like smite chaos and the anticonstruct one, and I am fine with those being removed (Even the hexblade curse, even if it could be classified as a magical ability from wizard training.), but I want to make clear that I don't believe that having multiple classes on a character means that they are weird or "bad" characters from flavour point of view.
The most complicated item is my headpiece, and it's the only item that grants those effects (Untyped bonuses to charisma checks/charisma abilities/the lovely aura.). I suppose I could alter the belt, though. (And maybe move the headband of persuasion away from the bicorn, to my cloak, where it should fit by MIC guidelines.)
So, a powerful wizard who takes on the study of loremaster and in his studies learns new abilities cannot learn abilities that are relevant to him, but because he hasn't been a loremaster for a long time he must learn abilities that are relatively weak compared to what he already can do?
That doesn't really make sense from RAI viewpoint, RAW viewpoint or Flavour viewpoint. While I know it is ultimately your call, I still don't see why you think that way.
Obviously. I haven't really done anything absolutely broken since metamorphosing to 12-headed hydra in Azure Bonds. Most of the arguments I've been part of after it are about my characters. Not what I actually did with them, but about their potential.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I don't see how my statement was fallacious at all. I'm not suggesting that your character is wholly defined by the classes you choose. I'm suggesting that the classes you choose contribute very little to your flavorful concept, being selected purely for the mechanical gain which you make from taking levels in them. Everyone can do this to some degree, but when it's taken to an excessive degree, the overall character begins to suffer.
I'm not saying having multiple classes is weird/bad. I'm saying going into a class just for the sake of one or two things you want to optimize your abilities is bad.
The loremaster is not automatically an epic prestige class. What you gain strictly from that class, prior to progressing in epic levels, is limited to non-epic material because the prestige class is at first concerned with non-epic material. To my knowledge, this is just what the rules state. Maybe someone can contribute their thoughts on it.
Well, most people's characters have the potential to do some broken things. I think people take issue with you because you broadcast it, making it look like your intention is to make use of that potential. I'm not saying they're right or wrong when people get upset with you (I actually think the issue is more complex than that). I'm just saying it's possible for you to avoid these conflicts and arguments.
Me: AC 60, Touch 45, Flat-Footed 44, Average 49 2/3
Ti'rin: Fort +34, Ref +51, Will +38, Average +41
Me: Fort +44, Ref +45, Will +63, Average 50 2/3
Sepiriel: Fort +42, Ref +37, Will +43, Average +41 1/3
I can understand the argument for my saves, but not for my AC, unless it would also include Ti'rin's. Further, by buffing empowered mage armor on Amarra, he gets AC to 57. In that situation, there'd be at least three of us with armor closer to 60, and many of our ACs are actually closer to 50 by default. (Sepiriel 49, Yukora 48, Halinn 42, Amadi 60, Ti'rin 60, Caex 45, Krashbot 40, Boros ???) Our average is 49.14285714, not "in the 40's".
The argument could be made that my defenses in total are over-the-top, however. (Ti'rin's are at least the same, though.) Then again, I am probably the only one in this group that doesn't play rocket tag (tm).
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Again, I apologize.
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Just putting that out there.
Can I just use her? She's gestalt, level 22, and friendly
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
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Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
I also had an item given to me in campaign (Rings of the Five Dragons)... what of that?
I need a day or so to work on gear, then.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
I bet everyone is glad to have Adel back. Adorable sauce.
I'm gonna miss that cloak, though
I'll probably turn it into what it originally was- a Mantle of Great Stealth, minus the whole "nothing can touch me" cheese.
Edit by way of repost:
I removed the cloak of Greater Cheesiness, and turned it into a Mantle of Great Stealth. I didn't calculate the total wort of all my items, but I know for a fact that that cloak and a pair of kobold-sized Boots of Swiftness were the only extra items I got from that hoard o'cash.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Thanks to High~Light Studios for this banner
:mad1:Drakoguard, Fiery God of Dragons:mad1:
My Extendo
But, what the hell, sure.
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