I'll be starting on the new character sometime in the near future. I apologize for taking so long- I have a job until the end of July, and I'm just too tired to get started on the weekends. I will get it done, though, I will!
Welcome back, ASA!
EDIT: I have a plan for the character, and m writing him/her/it up right now. Say hello to Guildmaster Gifar (link to be added)!
It's, uh, long. PM me an e-mail address and I can send it to you. Otherwise it wont fit in the PM.
Edit: I can tell you that while epic VOP has a lot of neat stuff, it's relatively limited and narrow. The fact is there is more you can do with money. I would only recommend VOP to a character that it fits with really well flavorfully (say, a stuffy hermit like Serato).
It fits, trust me- I'm essentially playing a monk (not the unarmed kind, the "lives in a monestary" kind) who moonlights as an pseudo-assassin for the good of, well, good.
We have what? 3 characters with VoP.. AND a saint.
Oh, and could I get the VoP too, as I have some old version, one which goes until level 27 only, IIRC. Might be good to see what I've got coming up next.
[email]Saikkonen1@Hotmail.com[/email] is where I should be able to receive it. [email]n91sar@norssi.jyu.fi[/email] if you don't like hotmail for whatever reason.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Sorry for getting defensive.
Could you email it to both [EMAIL="benwinick@aol.com"]benwinick@aol.com[/EMAIL] AND [EMAIL="ThumbBlighter@gmail.com"]ThumbBlighter@gmail.com[/EMAIL]? Thanks.
By the way, will I be utterly crippled by VoP if I'm playing a changeling rogue/avenger/cabinet trickster/warshaper? I'm assuming not, due to the cool natural attacks deal I get from warshaper while I'm using my (at-will!) change shape ability.
As a rule of thumb, VoP isn't an optimized choice, unless you are a druid, and even then it's not your best bet (Wilding Clasps.. <3). You could probably make it worth it by playing the following, in gestalt:
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
It's not terrible, but it's not the best thing you can possibly do to make an epic character either.
The upsides to epic VOP are Mages' Disjunction-free benefits, lots of feats, and a good chunk of the same abilities as a normal character would have (in some cases maybe you get a better deal than normal).
The downside, really, is that you lack creative flexibility. This is what makes it "not worth it" ultimately. You can't trade your VOP abilities for something else like you can do with items/money. You don't have any resources available to you to improve your character in very specific ways (you're stuck with the way you are until you gain another level). And items will give you infinitely more options and control over your character's power level and abilities.
Of course, you have to have the knowledge and wickedness required to really exploit items to their full potential (the extreme of this is stuff that is broken), so if you aren't a savvy munchkin you might not notice a difference. And if you consider the relative power levels of the other characters via items, you'll probably not notice a significant disparity in power level (though obviously the specialists will outdo you in their area of expertise: Apachai is going to dish out way more melee damage, Kaulesh will be taking a bazillion actions a round, Caex is going to blast the crap out of things, etc... you can be a more well-rounded member of the team or fill a niche with something flashy of your own).
Amadi seemed to consider it acceptable enough for one of his own characters, but perhaps that was a deliberate nerf on his part. I made a character with it just because the ascetic caster archetype is my favorite. If you want it for your character then you should be pleased with the results, even if not optimal.
Amadi seemed to consider it acceptable enough for one of his own characters, but perhaps that was a deliberate nerf on his part. I made a character with it just because the ascetic caster archetype is my favorite. If you want it for your character then you should be pleased with the results, even if not optimal.
Partially nerf, partially because I thought it'd fit, and partially because I was too lazy to figure out a good use for the sheer amount of gold you have at epic level. Plus I were playing a binder, binders aren't all that hungry for magic items. Except that moving more than 120ft/round when running might be nice.
I really need to come up with an epic vestige for that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Epic vestiges can do pretty much anything, really. That's not the problem. I need to come up with a relatively good fluff for it, and make the abilities well matching, yet make this all so it doesn't totally overlap with an existing vestige. Generally, the vestiges are really powerful, though.
For example Tkhaluuljin gives: 150ft (Perfect) flight speed, Wingover, Hover, Flyby Attack, Confusion Aura (Affects allies, though, but one save and you're safe from it for the rest of the day.), Mind Blast 120ft cone every 5 rounds, lasts 12 rounds. (DC for me would be 42.) And finally, the ability to summon and control spheres of annihilation (Which is the exact reason why I won't use this one.).
The text on that page states that at-wills are usually about 7th to 9th level spells, and every 5 rounds-ones are level 10+. I've been thinking of the following:
Khashefhse, Spirit of the Wild Wind [Insert fluff here.] Requirements: Knowledge (Nature): 33 ranks, Ability to bind 8th level vestiges. Form of the Wind - Gives 120ft flight speed (Perfect) and Hover and Flyby Attack. In addition, due to the wind swirling around me, the area within 50ft of me is considered difficult terrain for each of my opponents, and all such opponents have their flight maneuverability reduced by one step. Spinning Vortex - Twinned, Maximized, Wings of Flurry every 5 rounds, centered on self. Creatures that are flying and fail the save will also be knocked down 100ft.
I am missing two or three other abilities (All the other ones have 4-5 abilities.), probably the weaker ones. To there I'd be looking for some kind of utility or protection.
(Disclaimer: Wings of Flurry is a 4th level spell, so I believe it to be acceptable. I suppose I could do without the maximize.Still, at level 30 I suppose it would be fine.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'm going to say that I'll step in later. ie., put Gifar on hold in the party. I'm still working, but too slowly to be done soon. I'll be here, just not right now. Sorry everybody, and especially Jen.
OOC: I apologize again, but I'm dropping out for now. I hope to play in the future in another campaign, or even, perhaps, this one.
It will be the same Serato, but if there are no objections I'd like to take this opportunity to cleanup some of the sloppy leveling.
Welcome back, ASA!
EDIT: I have a plan for the character, and m writing him/her/it up right now. Say hello to Guildmaster Gifar (link to be added)!
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Character sheet, as with the other thread, with minor tweaks to waste less of the levels.
Name: Serato of Thossis, Parsaithes
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 135 lbs
Eye Color: Luminous Silver-Grey
Hair Color: Silver-White
Skintone: Pearly, Luminescent
Alignment: Lawful Good
Deity: Delleb
Race: Half-Celestial/Human
Size: Medium
Class/Level: Abjurer 5/Cleric 5/Weavemaster 10/Church Inquisitor 1/Sage of the White Lore 1/Mystic Theurge 3/Negator 1
half celestial HD: 8x4 + 7*4
1st: Cleric 10 + 7
2nd: Wizard 6 + 7
3rd: Cleric 10 + 7
4th: Wizard 6 + 7
5th: Cleric 10 + 7
6th: Wizard 6 + 7
7th: Cleric 10 + 7
8th: Wizard 6 + 7
9th: Cleric 10 + 7
10th: Wizard 6 + 7
11th: Mystic Theurge 6 + 7
--- LA buyoff ---
12th: Mystic Theurge 6 + 7
13th-20th: Weavemaster 6x7 + 7x7
--- LA buyoff ---
21st-22nd: Weavemaster: 6x2 + 7x2
23rd: Church Inquisitor 6 + 7
24th: Sage of the White Lore 4 + 7
25th: Mystic Theurge 6 + 7
26th: Negator: 6 + 7
Strength: 16 (+3) [10 + 4 + 2]
Dexterity: 25 (+7) [15 + 4 + 4 + 2]
Constitution: 24 (+7) [14 + 6 + 2 + 2]
Intelligence: 35 (+12) [18 + 2 + 10 + 3 + 2]
Wisdom: 35 (+12) [18 + 4 + 8 + 3 + 2]
Charisma: 21 (+5) [13 + 4 + 2 + 2]
HP: 428/428
AC: 37 [10 + 12 armor bonus + 7 dex mod + 4 natural armor + 4 deflection mod]
Touch: 25
Flat-Footed: 30
Speed: 30 ft, fly 60 ft (good maneuverability)
Initiative: +10
Fortitude: 33 (+4 vs. poison) [11 + 5 resistance + 6 con + 3 epic + 8 protective aura + 1 field of negation]
Reflex: 29 [6 + 5 resistance + 7 dex + 3 epic + 8 protective aura + 1 field of negation]
Will: 48 [20 + 5 resistance + 12 wis + 3 epic + 8 protective aura + 1 field of negation]
Spell-Resistance: 45 (49 vs. evil-aligned spells)
Damage Reduction 10/epic and evil
Base Attack Bonus: +25/+20/+15
Grapple: +9
Ranged Attack Bonus: +25/+20/+15
Attack: Unarmed
Wooden Holy Symbol of Delleb
Spellbook (upon which holy symbol is placed)
Plain white robe
Concentration 36 [29 ranks + 7 con]
Decipher Script 37 [25 ranks + 12 int]
Diplomacy 12 [7 ranks + 5 cha]
Heal 19 [7 ranks + 12 wis]
*Knowledge (Arcana) 41 [29 ranks + 12 int]
Knowledge (Geography) 27 [15 + 12]
Knowledge (History) 33 [21 + 12]
Knowledge (Local) 27 [15 + 12]
Knowledge (Nature) 27 [15 + 12]
Knowledge (The Planes) 41 [29 + 12]
Knowledge (Psionics) 39 [27 + 12]
Knowledge (Religion) 41 [29 + 12]
Knowledge (Royalty/Nobility) 22 [10 + 12]
Search 31 [19 + 12]
Sense Motive 28 [16 ranks + 12 wis]
Spellcraft 41 [29 ranks + 12 int]
Spot 30 [18 + 12]
*+1 insight bonus to all knowledge checks
Cleric:
Sacred Vow
Vow of Poverty
Scribe Scroll
Eschew Materials
Quicken Spell
Celestial Familiar (Lantern Archon)
Exalted Turning
Nimbus of Light
Holy Radiance
Touch of Golden Ice
Stigmata
Consecrate Spell
Purify Spell
Exalted Spell Resistance
Intuitive Attack
Spell Focus (Abjuration)
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Improved Counterspell
Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)
Improved Initiative
Divine Metamagic (Quicken Spell)
Heighten Spell
Spell Focus (Good)
Ignore Material Components
Elven Spell Lore (from Lucien - additional +2 bonus to dispel checks)
Multispell
Improved Spell Resistance x2
Wizard Spells per Day:
0 - 4
1 - 9 [4 + 1 + 3 + 1]
2 - 9 [4 + 1 + 3 + 1]
3 - 9 [4 + 1 + 3 + 1]
4 - 9 [4 + 1 + 3 + 1]
5 - 8 [4 + 1 + 2 + 1]
6 - 8 [4 + 1 + 2 + 1]
7 - 8 [4 + 1 + 2 + 1]
8 - 7 [3 + 1 + 2 + 1]
9 - 6 [3 + 1 + 1 + 1]
Spell DC: 10 + 12 + spell level + 2 (if abjuration) + 1 (if good)
Wizard Spells Prepared
0 - Detect Magic (2), Read Magic (2)
1 - Shield (2), Protection from Evil, Burning Hands (2), Magic Missile (2), Charm Person, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Shocking Grasp
2 - Touch of Idiocy, Blur, Electric Loop, Flaming Sphere, Obscure Object, Invisibility, Knock, Fireburst, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Scorching Ray
3 - Reverse Arrows, Fireball (2), Lightning Bolt, Hold Person, Gaseous Form, Haste, Slow, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Lightning Bolt
4 - Dimensional Anchor, Locate Creature, Remove Curse, Stoneskin, Spell Enhancer, Explosive Cascade, Assay Spell Resistance, Fire Shield, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Lightning Storm
5 - Break Enchantment, Telepathic Bond, Dismissal, Reciprocal Gyre, Dominate Person, Ball Lightning, Symbol of Spell Loss, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Cone of Fire
6 - Greater Dispel Magic (2), Stone to Flesh, Geis, Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Abeyance, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Chain Lightning
7 - Banishment (2), Antimagic Ray (3), Mass Hold Person, Project Image, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Prismatic Spray
8 - Lightning Ring, Protection from Spells, Temporal Stasis, Iron Body, Mind Blank, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Plasma Ray
9 - Absorption, Effulgent Epuration, Magical Void, Prismatic Sphere, Time Stop, Auto-Purified/Consecrated Meteor Storm
Cleric Spells per Day:
0 - 6
1 - 10 [5 + 1 + 3 + 1]
2 - 10 [5 + 1 + 3 + 1]
3 - 10 [5 + 1 + 3 + 1]
4 - 10 [5 + 1 + 3 + 1]
5 - 9 [5 + 1 + 2 + 1]
6 - 8 [4 + 1 + 2 + 1]
7 - 8 [4 + 1 + 2 + 1]
8 - 8 [4 + 1 + 2 + 1]
9 - 8 [4 + 1 + 1 + 1]
10 - 3 [2 + 1]
11 - 3 [2 + 1]
12 - 3 [2 + 1]
Spell DC: 10 + 12 + spell level + 2 (if abjuration) + 1 (if good)
Cleric Spells Prepared:
0 - Detect Magic (3), Read Magic (3)
1 - Hide from Undead, Protection from Evil, Summon Monster I, Bless, Light of Lunia, Entropic Shield, Shield of Faith, Detect Secret Doors, Remove Fear
2 - Delay Poison, Augury, Enthrall, Find Traps, Hold Person, Remove Paralysis, Silence, Summon Monster II, Detect Thoughts
3 - Dispel Magic, Demon Dirge, Summon Monster III, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Searing Light, Locate Object, Holy Storm
4 - Divination, Dimensional Anchor, Death Ward (2), Neutralize Poison, Restoration (2), Lesser Planar Ally, Spell Vulnerability
5 - Spell Resistance, Dispel Evil, Flame Strike (2), Planeshift (2), Summon Monster V, Symbol of Spell Loss
6 - Find the Path, Banishment, Greater Dispel Magic (2), Heal, Bolt of Glory, Abeyance (2)
7 - Greater Restoration, Holy Word, Resurrection (4), Spell Turning, Destruction
8 - Protection from Spells, Fire Storm (4), Greater Planar Ally, Wall of Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Spell Immunity
9 - Foresight, True Resurrection, Magical Void (3), Gate, Mass Heal, Implosion
10 - Quickened Greater Dispel Magic (2), Quickened (auto Consecrated, auto Purified) Heal
11 - Quickened Ethereal Jaunt, Quickened Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Quickened (auto Consecrated, auto Purified) Holy Word
12 - Quickened Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Quickened Dimensional Lock, Quickened (auto Consecrated, auto Purified) Fire Storm
Common
Celestial
Infernal
Abyssal
Draconic
Elven
Aquan
Auran
Ignan
Terran
Undercommon
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Edit: I can tell you that while epic VOP has a lot of neat stuff, it's relatively limited and narrow. The fact is there is more you can do with money. I would only recommend VOP to a character that it fits with really well flavorfully (say, a stuffy hermit like Serato).
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Hehe, I can just picture Jen rolling her eyes as she DMs for a bunch of saccharine goodsauce players.
Oh, and could I get the VoP too, as I have some old version, one which goes until level 27 only, IIRC. Might be good to see what I've got coming up next.
[email]Saikkonen1@Hotmail.com[/email] is where I should be able to receive it. [email]n91sar@norssi.jyu.fi[/email] if you don't like hotmail for whatever reason.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Could you email it to both [EMAIL="benwinick@aol.com"]benwinick@aol.com[/EMAIL] AND [EMAIL="ThumbBlighter@gmail.com"]ThumbBlighter@gmail.com[/EMAIL]? Thanks.
By the way, will I be utterly crippled by VoP if I'm playing a changeling rogue/avenger/cabinet trickster/warshaper? I'm assuming not, due to the cool natural attacks deal I get from warshaper while I'm using my (at-will!) change shape ability.
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Druid 20 // Totemist 7 / Monk 1 / Fist of the Forest 1 / Barbarian 1 / Totem Rager 10
Apart from that, it probably isn't worth it.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
The upsides to epic VOP are Mages' Disjunction-free benefits, lots of feats, and a good chunk of the same abilities as a normal character would have (in some cases maybe you get a better deal than normal).
The downside, really, is that you lack creative flexibility. This is what makes it "not worth it" ultimately. You can't trade your VOP abilities for something else like you can do with items/money. You don't have any resources available to you to improve your character in very specific ways (you're stuck with the way you are until you gain another level). And items will give you infinitely more options and control over your character's power level and abilities.
Of course, you have to have the knowledge and wickedness required to really exploit items to their full potential (the extreme of this is stuff that is broken), so if you aren't a savvy munchkin you might not notice a difference. And if you consider the relative power levels of the other characters via items, you'll probably not notice a significant disparity in power level (though obviously the specialists will outdo you in their area of expertise: Apachai is going to dish out way more melee damage, Kaulesh will be taking a bazillion actions a round, Caex is going to blast the crap out of things, etc... you can be a more well-rounded member of the team or fill a niche with something flashy of your own).
Amadi seemed to consider it acceptable enough for one of his own characters, but perhaps that was a deliberate nerf on his part. I made a character with it just because the ascetic caster archetype is my favorite. If you want it for your character then you should be pleased with the results, even if not optimal.
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.
Partially nerf, partially because I thought it'd fit, and partially because I was too lazy to figure out a good use for the sheer amount of gold you have at epic level. Plus I were playing a binder, binders aren't all that hungry for magic items. Except that moving more than 120ft/round when running might be nice.
I really need to come up with an epic vestige for that.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
For example Tkhaluuljin gives: 150ft (Perfect) flight speed, Wingover, Hover, Flyby Attack, Confusion Aura (Affects allies, though, but one save and you're safe from it for the rest of the day.), Mind Blast 120ft cone every 5 rounds, lasts 12 rounds. (DC for me would be 42.) And finally, the ability to summon and control spheres of annihilation (Which is the exact reason why I won't use this one.).
The text on that page states that at-wills are usually about 7th to 9th level spells, and every 5 rounds-ones are level 10+. I've been thinking of the following:
Khashefhse, Spirit of the Wild Wind
[Insert fluff here.]
Requirements: Knowledge (Nature): 33 ranks, Ability to bind 8th level vestiges.
Form of the Wind - Gives 120ft flight speed (Perfect) and Hover and Flyby Attack. In addition, due to the wind swirling around me, the area within 50ft of me is considered difficult terrain for each of my opponents, and all such opponents have their flight maneuverability reduced by one step.
Spinning Vortex - Twinned, Maximized, Wings of Flurry every 5 rounds, centered on self. Creatures that are flying and fail the save will also be knocked down 100ft.
I am missing two or three other abilities (All the other ones have 4-5 abilities.), probably the weaker ones. To there I'd be looking for some kind of utility or protection.
(Disclaimer: Wings of Flurry is a 4th level spell, so I believe it to be acceptable. I suppose I could do without the maximize. Still, at level 30 I suppose it would be fine.)
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
OOC: I apologize again, but I'm dropping out for now. I hope to play in the future in another campaign, or even, perhaps, this one.
I have 15 cookies in my cookie jar.