Well folks, it seems to be that time of year again! We are going to try a newer, Ruleslite edition of Planeswalkers the Role-Playing Game! So, this is going to be the thread for posting the new rules that DakmorQueen and I have come up with for the new system, and for all of us to discuss said rules. Here's hoping we can get it right this time!
Required Information
Name: Character Name
Race: Special Rules
Plane of Origin/Home Plane: Plane that you are from, or that your character has spent the most of their previous life on. Determines spells available to starting planeswalkers.
Life: Starts at 40
Mana: Starts at 10
Poison Count: 0/20
Spells/Turn: Starts at 2 Sorcery speed, 1 Instant speed
P/T: Starts at 1/1. Power is the amount of damage you deal while blocking, or when you attack with yourself. Toughness is the amount of damage that is stopped before any remaining damage affects your life total.
Color: Starting color, any additional colors
Abilities: Where you put a list of your abilities and colors. Can make private for WPL's and yourself, or make public. Your choice.
Appearance: What your character looks like
Hair: Hair color
Eyes: Eye color
Height: Character height
Weight: Not really needed, but its an RPG.
Background: Simple or complex backstory about your character. What they have done in their past lives, culminating in their death-trance into the Blind Eternities. Must explain how spark ignited, proceding death, and entrance to B.E. Character will start game either in B.E. or in the Infinite Consortium on Ravnica, sleeping in a bed in the sleeping area, having just 'walked from the B.E. to there.
Level: Character Level
XP: Character experience. Current Level XP/Lifetime XP
AP: Current number of Ability Points(AP)
You need 5 + your previous level in xp to level up.
When you reach a new level, you get 2 + your previous level divided by 2 AP.
At level 2, and every even level after that, you can spend 3 AP to gain access to another color. This new color has to be an allied color, meaning next to each other on the color wheel. To get an enemy color, you need to get special permission from a WPL, and have RP'd a reason for your character to have need or want to go into said color.
Initial character creation: You have 5 AP to start with, to put into whatever you wish, as long as it is in the color you have chosen.
You don't have to spend all of your points at once, you can save them up for something later.
Each point allows you to summon creatures related to the amount of points you have put into the skill.
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon creatures
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon creatures
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon creatures
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon creatures
Rare and Mythic Rare creatures must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery, unless something gives it Flash, or the Creature has Flash.
Each point allows you to deal damage equal to the amount of points you have in Burn.
May spend additional points into Burn in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your damage potential.
Speed: Instant up to 4 damage and/or three targets, otherwise sorcery.
You may destroy a nonland, nonplaneswalker permanent with CMC equal to half the amount of points you have in this skill.
You may pay 6 points in order to be able to destroy lands(connections to mana).
Speed: Instant for creatures, artifact and enchantments. Otherwise sorcery.
Non-Creature Counterspell: Each point allows you to counter a non-creature spell with CMC equal to the amount of points you have in the skill.
Creature Counterspell: Each point allows you to counter a creature spell with CMC equal to the amount of points you have in the skill.
Speed: Instant
Each point allows you to pump equal to the amount of points you have in Pump.
May spend additional points into Pump in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your pump potential.
Speed: Instant up to 5 and/or four targets, otherwise sorcery.
Each point allows you to neg equal to the amount of points you have in Neg.
May spend additional points into Neg in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your neg potential.
Speed: Instant up to 2 and/or two targets, otherwise sorcery.
Each point allows you to heal/prevent damage equal to the amount of points you have in Healing.
May spend additional points into Healing in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target.
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your healing potential.
Speed: Instant
Each point allows you to cast enchantments related to the amount of points you have put into the skill.
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
]Rare and Mythic Rare enchantments must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery unless something gives the enchanment Flash, or the enchantment has Flash.
Every 2 points you have in Drain allows you to drain 1 life from your opponent.
May spend 6 points into drain to heal the same amount you drain from your opponent.
Speed: Sorcery
You may exile a nonland, nonplaneswalker permanent with CMC equal to half the amount of points you have in Exile.
May pay 6 points in order to be able to exile lands(connections to mana)
Speed: Instant for one permanent, otherwise sorcery.
You may copy a non-creature spell with CMC equal to half the amount of points you have in Duplication.
Speed: Instant vs. Spells; Sorcery vs. Creatures.
Each point allows you to cast equipment artifacts related to the amount of points you have put into the skill.
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
Rare and Mythic Rare equipment artifacts must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery unless it has Flash, or something gives it Flash.
Each point allows you to cast non-equipment, non-creature artifacts related to the amount of points you have put into the skill.
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
Rare and Mythic Rare non-equipment, non-creature artifacts must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery unless it has Flash, or something gives it Flash.
We are trying an arbitrary system for mana costs. For anything that doesnt use specific spells(cards), use the following formulae: The number you are trying to do, times the number of targets you want to target, divide that number in half, subtract your level, and add 1. Example: Say you want to burn a creature an opponent controls for 2 damage. using this formulae, it goes like this: 2(damage)x1(target)=2. Then: 2 - level + 1. So, that come out to 2 damage to one creature for 2 mana. We know it may seem too costly at first, but as you get higher in levels, and get more points into your skills, it gets easier.
Cost: 1 point per.
Add 1 to your Power or your Toughness
Cost: 1 point per.
Add 1 to your starting mana in a color you are able to use.
Cost: 1 point per.
Increase your spells per turn by either 1 instant, or 1 sorcery.
Cost: 1 point per.
Add 5 to your maximum life total.
Special note for Conjuration: With the extreme number of creature spells out there, especially depending on which set you go with, please limit the creatures you play through this skill to match your characters theme/race/backstory. This way, we wont have people taking too much advantage of the new system. You can PM your choices to us, or have them posted at your sheet. The same goes for any ability that uses specific cards, like enchantments, and artifacts.
Different then previous incarnations of the Project, and from MTG:RPG, while you can have only 4 of any one permanent at a time, you have unlimited castings. Please remember this.
Each character gets a special ability, after discussion through PM with the WPL's, based on your race, plane of origin, and theme. Based alot on your background/race.
Also, depending on which color you choose initially, you get the following:
White: 1 free AP in Healing or Life Training
Blue: 1 free Ap in Counterspelling or Spells/Turn Training
Black: 1 free AP in Drain or Neg'ing
Red: 1 free AP in Burn or Spells/Turn Training
Green: 1 free AP in Conjuration or Mana Training
Also, each player gets a free rare spell, chosen, again, through discussion with a WPL through PM. Only the WPL's and the characters will know the abilities and free rare spells that you get are, unless you decide to publicize them.
9/13/2012 Posted Initial Version 1.0 to forum.
9/14/2012 Added in Speeds for abilities.
9/15/2012 Updated Speeds.
9/15/2012 Added Mana Cost Rules
9/15/2012 Added leveling rules & AP Rules
Alright guys, we are going to go ahead and start up in the Beta Alternate world thread. We still need a few more players to properly test out the system. We currently have a G and a W planeswalker, we still need a U, a B, and a R planeswalker to round it out, so come on down!
Edit: We now have a U and a R walker, all we need now is a B and we'll be good to go!
Ok guys, this post will be used to update on any rules that we add in, as we didnt take the time as of yet to go into all of the specific keywords yet. they will be added as they come up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Landfall will go off for all of your permanents with landfall when your mana regenerates at the beginning of your turn. They will also go off whenever an effect puts a land into play, or when you play any non-basic lands.
Non-basic lands are not available right at the start. Planeswalkers will have to quest for them, to get a connection to the land so that you can use it later.
An addition to the rules, because it wasn't spelled out correctly, your starting life is also your max. Otherwise, the game would get silly. Sorry for any confusion this might have caused.
An addition to the rules, because it wasn't spelled out correctly, your starting life is also your max. Otherwise, the game would get silly. Sorry for any confusion this might have caused.
Very true. I too apologize for missing it. But that is why we test things out. You can improve your life total, and therefore your max life, with the Life Training Ability, that increases your total by 5 every time you take it.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I have tbought about it alot, and so has DakmorQueen. I say that it shouldnt get counterspelling, she says it does. I totally forgot about destruction. I'll add it in, but i think that counterspelling is going to end up staying.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Also, I think red and green should get specialized forms of destruction. Red should be able to destroy only artifacts and lands, and green should be able to destroy artifacts and enchantments.
In fact, I think that each color should have their own ability that no other color has. Maybe even two if we can think of it. It makes a high level mage of one color more unique than a higher level mage of another color. Overlapping abilities just makes everyone too similar.
Red- Burn, Specialized Destruction (Land and Artifacts), maybe even Mana Rituals like Seething Song?
Black- Reanimation and Draining, get rid of Exile. Black doesn't Exile permanents.
Blue- Counterspelling and... hm... I'm drawing a blank here. Blue could do bounce or card draw, but apparently neither of them do anything in this game. Get rid of Exile in blue as well. It doesn't permanently Exile permanents either.
Green- Mana Ramp, maybe? Specialized Destruction (Artifacts and Enchantments and fliers). Maybe a bonus to Conjuration, being the "creature color" and all that.
White- Protection spells and Exile effects.
Question: How are destruction and exile different? If you have unlimited casting of a creature, enchantment, etc. spell, there's really nothing to distinguish one from the other.
EDIT: Also, I think KoolKoal's Talent system should be reincluded in this project. It's a fantastic idea, and makes characters even more unique than any others. For anyone who forgot how it works: Every three levels, you character gains a custom-made Talent. You discuss it with the WPLs. It could be anything from "Your character is a mind-mage, and can spend mana to read minds" to "You can cast Spell X".
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Alright, I was having trouble sleeping and suddenly have a bit of a brain wave idea come to me, pertaining to Plansewalker Items, yes, and I will put them behind a Spoiler as to not clog this chat up to much.
To start, you can get better ones via quests of course, but you may also... purchase base ones using a few ability points when you level up(from possibly a character that has yet to be introduced/made). You could only have 1 PW Item equipped at any one time(or 1 per X levels, at the WLP's discretion)
A basic one(depending on what it does) would cost 2 to 3 points, and its effects could very, but here is a possible example of one.
Manadrain Bomb Satchel
Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: Messenger bag Style
Effect: Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Once Per Day
Cost: 2 And 1 spell slot for that turn.
Simple I think, the primary idea being to cover something that the user normally couldn't do, and cover a wider range, and the Limit on it means it couldn't be overly abused. It is at most a delay tactic to help a struggling party stand a chance.
The trick is, when they go to purchase the item... they will get a choice of 3 at random in my full idea, but this one is negotiable.
Now then, they could, once per level, they could trade in the item for another one or spend points to upgrade/alter it.
Some possible options that you could do with our example depending on the PW color.
Staticbomb Satchel
Upgrade Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: More high tech bag, a pair of Tesla coils extending outward from it.
Effect:Counter target spell Unless its controller pays 2, a spell countered this way may not be cast again till the start of that players next turn.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Twice Per Day
Cost: UU And 1 spell slot for that turn.
Izzit BlastShell Case
Upgrade Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: Tool case looking like thing, still held on by a strap, but more solid then previous form.
Effect: Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2, if a spell is countered this way, deal 3 damage to its controller.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Twice Per Day
Cost: (R/U)(R/U) And 1 spell slot for that turn.
Goblin Grenade Bag
Upgrade Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: Larger more patched up bag, a stick of dynamite hanging out the side.
Effect: Destroy target creature unless its controller pays 2.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Twice Per Day
Cost: RR And 1 spell slot for that turn.
Things of that nature, and, as a kicker, you don't know what upgrade choices you have till you attempt to do so, it is always changing and you may even choose not to upgrade it to try your luck the following round.
Of course, Limiters can be placed on the level item you may obtain, or the abilities of the item. Some Duals for example may have a rule that your PW Item may not be used even if the WPL's so wish.
The Character that sells/upgrades these? Well, I actually have ideas for that too, but will hold onto them till I can express them more clearly.
I think the planeswalker item thing could be covered by letting planeswalkers use equipment. It's a complexity issue, mostly, but also a flavor one. Existing equipment just makes more sense than brand new items that you have to create from scratch. Arcel's idea just adds another layer to the system that it just doesn't need.
Plus, getting unique effects like that can be done with KK's Talent system, if it were brought back.
More rules stuff:
Quote from Me »
In fact, I think that each color should have their own ability that no other color has. Maybe even two if we can think of it. It makes a high level mage of one color more unique than a higher level mage of another color. Overlapping abilities just makes everyone too similar.
Red- Burn, Specialized Destruction (Land and Artifacts), maybe even Mana Rituals like Seething Song?
Black- Reanimation and Draining, get rid of Exile. Black doesn't Exile permanents.
Blue- Counterspelling and... hm... I'm drawing a blank here. Blue could do bounce or card draw, but apparently neither of them do anything in this game. Get rid of Exile in blue as well. It doesn't permanently Exile permanents either.
Green- Mana Ramp, maybe? Specialized Destruction (Artifacts and Enchantments and fliers). Maybe a bonus to Conjuration, being the "creature color" and all that.
White- Protection spells and Exile effects.
Question: How are destruction and exile different? If you have unlimited casting of a creature, enchantment, etc. spell, there's really nothing to distinguish one from the other.
EDIT: Also, I think KoolKoal's Talent system should be reincluded in this project. It's a fantastic idea, and makes characters even more unique than any others. For anyone who forgot how it works: Every three levels, you character gains a custom-made Talent. You discuss it with the WPLs. It could be anything from "Your character is a mind-mage, and can spend mana to read minds" to "You can cast Spell X".
Couple of edits: The way you describe abilities is too confusing, btw. You refer to spending points to increase abilities, but then talk about pumping points into spells when you cast them to make them better. I realize it's supposed to say mana. You might want to clean that up. Too ambiguous.
Suggestion for how permanents work: Since you can summon any of the vast amount of creatures and/or enchantments of your skill level (1-2 casting cost commons/uncommons for at first level of Conjuration, literally hundreds of creatures) I'd suggest imposing a "4 of any specific creature or enchantment per battle" limit. It opens up some room for Bounce, Reanimation, Destruction, and Exile to have their own individual feel.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Erm, Ability Points and Mana are not the same thing.
And there was already a limit of 4 in place, no more then 4 per field, making it per battle could make things pretty difficult for people with low ranks, if you look at some of the old battles, you would see why.
Edit: On Second thought... hmm, its a hard thing to try and impose this limit per dual, because some people it would help balance out, and some it could possibly screw over.
Erm, Ability Points and Mana are not the same thing.
I know. Go read the rules for Burn or Destruction. It's pretty obvious they need to replace the word "points" with "mana" in some of the ability descriptions to clear it up.
And there was already a limit of 4 in place, no more then 4 per field, making it per battle could make things pretty difficult for people with low ranks, if you look at some of the old battles, you would see why.
I mean 4 per battle. As in, in any specific battle you can only summon 4 of any one creature. You can still cast any of the other creatures/enchantments you have access too, but only 4 copies total of any individual creature/enchantment. When any of those copies dies, it goes to the graveyard, or can be bounced or exiled. It gives abilities more to differentiate them from others. There's absolutely no difference between Destruction and Exile right now, because there's no graveyard and you can just recast your creature unlimited times. There has to be a limit to keep things in balance and give each ability a niche.
A bit more similar to paper Magic, basically. Maximum of 4 copies of any creature/enchantment per duel. With abilities like Burn or Destruction it's different because you're not actually casting specific spells. But with creatures/enchantments, there has to be a limit to prevent shennanigans and/or unfairness.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
What exactly are you meaning when you are talking about burn and destruction, ie., the points/mana thing?
One thing people seem to forget, is that this is not MTGRPG. We are not mages, with limited range of spells/abilities. We are PLANESWALKER'S. We are supposed to be a little unbalanced.
I do agree that something needs to be done about exile/destruction. Maybe just take exile out altogether.
We have talked about the equipment thing before. The idea was to have points in the artifact: equipment ability for the actual artifact, then to spend some yet to be determined ability points to be able to wield a specific equipment.
While we may be able to summon any of the available things that are part of the associated mana costs for the abilities that use actual cards as permanents, it is understood that you have a list of the most commonly used ones, ie. the only ones you will ever really use. They must fit your character's story, personality, and playstyle.
As far as special abilities go, we give each character a special ability at first level that fits what they want for their character. Both DakmorQueen and myself talk to each and every one of you, asking you if what we come up with is ok for what you wanted the character to be able to do, and for what you want them to be. It is never set in stone, and we appreciate you coming up with your own ideas. Granted, we have yet to get all of them documented in a thread for others to llok at, because we want each and everyone of your characters to be as unique as possible. If we just gave you a list to choose from, you wouldn't have to work at being creative. We aren't just going to do it for you. This is your game too.
What exactly are you meaning when you are talking about burn and destruction, ie., the points/mana thing?
I'll highlight the parts that make no sense and use parenthesis to show where the wording needs to be fixed:
Each point (should say mana) allows you to pump equal to the amount of points you have in Pump.
May spend additional points (should say mana) into Pump in order to target additional targets.
2 points (should say mana) per extra target
6 points (should say mana) to affect all creatures.
The points (should say mana) you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your pump potential.
Speed: Instant up to 5 and/or four targets, otherwise sorcery.
You're using the word "points" as a substitute for "mana" in a lot of your ability descriptions. It makes things confusing.
One thing people seem to forget, is that this is not MTGRPG. We are not mages, with limited range of spells/abilities. We are PLANESWALKER'S. We are supposed to be a little unbalanced.
I do agree that something needs to be done about exile/destruction. Maybe just take exile out altogether.
The unbalanced thing can easily be represented by being able to directly turn mana into Burn, Destruction, Counterspells and stuff instead of using actual spells from the game. But if you're going to use actual cards from the game, as you do when casting creatures and enchantments, you can't disregard all the rules of the game as you would normally and keep everything balanced. It will break the game wide open, I'm almost positive.
As far as special abilities go, we give each character a special ability at first level that fits what they want for their character. Both DakmorQueen and myself talk to each and every one of you, asking you if what we come up with is ok for what you wanted the character to be able to do, and for what you want them to be. It is never set in stone, and we appreciate you coming up with your own ideas. Granted, we have yet to get all of them documented in a thread for others to llok at, because we want each and everyone of your characters to be as unique as possible. If we just gave you a list to choose from, you wouldn't have to work at being creative. We aren't just going to do it for you. This is your game too.
I think you misunderstood what I'm trying to say. I think characters should gain the types of abilities you describe, custom-made by the player and WPLs, but every three levels instead of just at first level.
Having special abilities granted only at first level actually inhibits character growth in the long term. Your character's abilities will never grow. They'll be stuck at first-level usefulness when your character is at level 6.
If you've ever played D&D, it's something similar: You don't choose a Feat at first level and are stuck with it forever, never gaining new abilities or being able to improve the ones you already know. You gain new Feats every few levels that represent a growth in your ability and your development as a character.
In fact, I'm positive the "1 Talent every 3 levels" that KoolKoal had in the original rules was inspired by D&D.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I think you were just misreading it, the Points that are kept being mentioned are the points that go into selecting an ability.
You want to burn someone for 1? Well, you need a single point in Burn Ability to do that.
You Want to burn two or more targets at once? Alright, spend an extra 2 ability points when you earn them in Burn to give you a single extra target per time you do any of that kind of spell.
You seem to think they are describing In Battle costs, when they are not, the points are for gaining the abilities to do so in the first place.
For example, my Ogre(originally) had no points in Burn, so he couldn't use his mana to directly hurt anything, he had to do it through creatures or enchants. But he DID have Pump 2, so, without the aid of an enchantment, he could power up any one of his creatures by 2(temporarily I believe) with a single non-named spell.
Caex, the original wording on Pump is correct. It's not mana, it's ability points.
Also, I have an idea to make exile feel like exile. If something is exiled, it's essence is still on the battlefield. I.e It is still counted towards the four maximum, savvy?
Also, I was working on an idea of allowing SpAs to be upgraded as the character level.
I should say that "Specialized destruction" just adds an unnecessary level of complexity. That's what killed KK's rules. Complexity creep. We're trying to keep everything as non-complex as possible.
It also makes sense when you consider things like Oblivion Ring, an Exiling enchantment(In case anyone didn't know.), if the opponent is able to get rid of it, the essence just reforms into the creature it originally was.
It also makes sense when you consider things like Oblivion Ring, an Exiling enchantment(In case anyone didn't know.), if the opponent is able to get rid of it, the essence just reforms into the creature it originally was.
Exactly. I hadn't noticed before that it didn't work like that.
Again, the rules are still very malleable and we're working to knock the kinks out.
I think you were just misreading it, the Points that are kept being mentioned are the points that go into selecting an ability.
You want to burn someone for 1? Well, you need a single point in Burn Ability to do that.
You Want to burn two or more targets at once? Alright, spend an extra 2 ability points when you earn them in Burn to give you a single extra target per time you do any of that kind of spell.
You seem to think they are describing In Battle costs, when they are not, the points are for gaining the abilities to do so in the first place.
For example, my Ogre(originally) had no points in Burn, so he couldn't use his mana to directly hurt anything, he had to do it through creatures or enchants. But he DID have Pump 2, so, without the aid of an enchantment, he could power up any one of his creatures by 2(temporarily I believe) with a single non-named spell.
Huh. That's... a really narrow system. There's pretty much no reason to put points into anything other than Conjuration and Enchanting, as far as I can tell. Three points in Enchantment and two in Conjuration can duplicate almost any effect any other Ability could create. They're so absolutely narrow when compared to Conjuration and Enchantment they're obsolete.
An increase in flexibility is, I think, badly needed if that's the way Abilities work. And an increase in flexibility is not the same thing as an increase in complexity.
Also, I was working on an idea of allowing SpAs to be upgraded as the character level.
That's definitely an improvement. I still think letting the players make new abilities as they level would be the ideal solution.
I should say that "Specialized destruction" just adds an unnecessary level of complexity. That's what killed KK's rules. Complexity creep. We're trying to keep everything as non-complex as possible.
I disagree. In this case, you're sacrificing color identity for the sake of simplicity. My idea adds basically zero complexity. Just give those colors the standard Destruction ability, but specify the color restrictions in the description of the ability. It's that simple.
I think that applies to a few of the rules, in fact. You're letting a fear of complexity detract from the overall potential of the game. An RPG with a well-defined rules system, almost by definition, has to have some degree of complexity. Otherwise you might as well just make this a freeform RPG and do away with the rules entirely.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I don't understand how it's narrow... Could you explain?
Maybe narrow wasn't the right word for it. Try limited or rigid. It lacks both simplicity and flexibility.
Look at the way the Pump ability currently works:
Each point allows you to pump equal to the amount of points you have in Pump.
May spend additional points into Pump in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your pump potential.
Speed: Instant up to 5 and/or four targets, otherwise sorcery.
Now imagine this is the way it works:
You may spend 1 mana to give a target creature +X/+X, where X is the number of ability points you have in Pump.
You may spend an additional 2 mana to target another creature. You can do this multiple times, spending 2 extra mana per target.
You may spend an additional 5 mana to target each creature you control.
Speed: Instant, or Sorcery if you target each creature you control.
See how much more flexible mine is? You can adjust the amount of mana you spend to adjust the effect. It's practically the same ability, but with mine you have more choice in how it's used.
Example:
If you have 2 points in Pump, every 1 mana you spend will give a creature +2/+2. So if you spent 3 mana, you could pump a creature +6/+6.
OR
You could give 2 creatures +2/+2 for 3 mana: 1 mana for the pump, 2 mana for the extra target.
The more mana you spend, the greater the effect you get out of it.
@Complexity: It's a memory issue really...
But with the rules written down for everyone to see, memory becomes a non-issue, does it not?
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Name: Character Name
Race: Special Rules
Plane of Origin/Home Plane: Plane that you are from, or that your character has spent the most of their previous life on. Determines spells available to starting planeswalkers.
Life: Starts at 40
Mana: Starts at 10
Poison Count: 0/20
Spells/Turn: Starts at 2 Sorcery speed, 1 Instant speed
P/T: Starts at 1/1. Power is the amount of damage you deal while blocking, or when you attack with yourself. Toughness is the amount of damage that is stopped before any remaining damage affects your life total.
Color: Starting color, any additional colors
Abilities: Where you put a list of your abilities and colors. Can make private for WPL's and yourself, or make public. Your choice.
Appearance: What your character looks like
Hair: Hair color
Eyes: Eye color
Height: Character height
Weight: Not really needed, but its an RPG.
Background: Simple or complex backstory about your character. What they have done in their past lives, culminating in their death-trance into the Blind Eternities. Must explain how spark ignited, proceding death, and entrance to B.E. Character will start game either in B.E. or in the Infinite Consortium on Ravnica, sleeping in a bed in the sleeping area, having just 'walked from the B.E. to there.
Level: Character Level
XP: Character experience. Current Level XP/Lifetime XP
AP: Current number of Ability Points(AP)
When you reach a new level, you get 2 + your previous level divided by 2 AP.
At level 2, and every even level after that, you can spend 3 AP to gain access to another color. This new color has to be an allied color, meaning next to each other on the color wheel. To get an enemy color, you need to get special permission from a WPL, and have RP'd a reason for your character to have need or want to go into said color.
You don't have to spend all of your points at once, you can save them up for something later.
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon creatures
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon creatures
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon creatures
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon creatures
Rare and Mythic Rare creatures must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery, unless something gives it Flash, or the Creature has Flash.
May spend additional points into Burn in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your damage potential.
Speed: Instant up to 4 damage and/or three targets, otherwise sorcery.
You may pay 6 points in order to be able to destroy lands(connections to mana).
Speed: Instant for creatures, artifact and enchantments. Otherwise sorcery.
Creature Counterspell: Each point allows you to counter a creature spell with CMC equal to the amount of points you have in the skill.
Speed: Instant
May spend additional points into Pump in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your pump potential.
Speed: Instant up to 5 and/or four targets, otherwise sorcery.
May spend additional points into Neg in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your neg potential.
Speed: Instant up to 2 and/or two targets, otherwise sorcery.
May spend additional points into Healing in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target.
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your healing potential.
Speed: Instant
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon enchantments
]Rare and Mythic Rare enchantments must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery unless something gives the enchanment Flash, or the enchantment has Flash.
May spend 6 points into drain to heal the same amount you drain from your opponent.
Speed: Sorcery
May pay 6 points in order to be able to exile lands(connections to mana)
Speed: Instant for one permanent, otherwise sorcery.
Speed: Instant vs. Spells; Sorcery vs. Creatures.
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon equipment artifacts
Rare and Mythic Rare equipment artifacts must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery unless it has Flash, or something gives it Flash.
1 point: 1-2 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
2 points: 3-4 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
3 points: 5-6 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
4 points: 7-8 CMC common/uncommon non-equipment, non-creature artifacts
Rare and Mythic Rare non-equipment, non-creature artifacts must be bought separately
Rare: 3 points
Mythic Rare: 4 points
Speed: Sorcery unless it has Flash, or something gives it Flash.
Add 1 to your Power or your Toughness
Add 1 to your starting mana in a color you are able to use.
Increase your spells per turn by either 1 instant, or 1 sorcery.
Add 5 to your maximum life total.
Different then previous incarnations of the Project, and from MTG:RPG, while you can have only 4 of any one permanent at a time, you have unlimited castings. Please remember this.
Also, depending on which color you choose initially, you get the following:
White: 1 free AP in Healing or Life Training
Blue: 1 free Ap in Counterspelling or Spells/Turn Training
Black: 1 free AP in Drain or Neg'ing
Red: 1 free AP in Burn or Spells/Turn Training
Green: 1 free AP in Conjuration or Mana Training
Also, each player gets a free rare spell, chosen, again, through discussion with a WPL through PM. Only the WPL's and the characters will know the abilities and free rare spells that you get are, unless you decide to publicize them.
9/14/2012 Added in Speeds for abilities.
9/15/2012 Updated Speeds.
9/15/2012 Added Mana Cost Rules
9/15/2012 Added leveling rules & AP Rules
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
Edit: We now have a U and a R walker, all we need now is a B and we'll be good to go!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
Very true. I too apologize for missing it. But that is why we test things out. You can improve your life total, and therefore your max life, with the Life Training Ability, that increases your total by 5 every time you take it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
White only has like seven counterspells.
{Magic: The RPG}
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
I'd say remove counterspell from white and give it destruction.
Also, I think black should get reanimation as an ability. Black has quite a lot of spells that bring dead things back to life.
{Magic: The RPG}
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
In fact, I think that each color should have their own ability that no other color has. Maybe even two if we can think of it. It makes a high level mage of one color more unique than a higher level mage of another color. Overlapping abilities just makes everyone too similar.
Red- Burn, Specialized Destruction (Land and Artifacts), maybe even Mana Rituals like Seething Song?
Black- Reanimation and Draining, get rid of Exile. Black doesn't Exile permanents.
Blue- Counterspelling and... hm... I'm drawing a blank here. Blue could do bounce or card draw, but apparently neither of them do anything in this game. Get rid of Exile in blue as well. It doesn't permanently Exile permanents either.
Green- Mana Ramp, maybe? Specialized Destruction (Artifacts and Enchantments and fliers). Maybe a bonus to Conjuration, being the "creature color" and all that.
White- Protection spells and Exile effects.
Question: How are destruction and exile different? If you have unlimited casting of a creature, enchantment, etc. spell, there's really nothing to distinguish one from the other.
EDIT: Also, I think KoolKoal's Talent system should be reincluded in this project. It's a fantastic idea, and makes characters even more unique than any others. For anyone who forgot how it works: Every three levels, you character gains a custom-made Talent. You discuss it with the WPLs. It could be anything from "Your character is a mind-mage, and can spend mana to read minds" to "You can cast Spell X".
{Magic: The RPG}
A basic one(depending on what it does) would cost 2 to 3 points, and its effects could very, but here is a possible example of one.
Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: Messenger bag Style
Effect: Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Once Per Day
Cost: 2 And 1 spell slot for that turn.
The trick is, when they go to purchase the item... they will get a choice of 3 at random in my full idea, but this one is negotiable.
Now then, they could, once per level, they could trade in the item for another one or spend points to upgrade/alter it.
Some possible options that you could do with our example depending on the PW color.
Upgrade Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: More high tech bag, a pair of Tesla coils extending outward from it.
Effect:Counter target spell Unless its controller pays 2, a spell countered this way may not be cast again till the start of that players next turn.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Twice Per Day
Cost: UU And 1 spell slot for that turn.
Upgrade Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: Tool case looking like thing, still held on by a strap, but more solid then previous form.
Effect: Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2, if a spell is countered this way, deal 3 damage to its controller.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Twice Per Day
Cost: (R/U)(R/U) And 1 spell slot for that turn.
Upgrade Cost: 2 points.
Apperance: Larger more patched up bag, a stick of dynamite hanging out the side.
Effect: Destroy target creature unless its controller pays 2.
Limit: Once Per Planeswalker Dual And/Or Twice Per Day
Cost: RR And 1 spell slot for that turn.
Of course, Limiters can be placed on the level item you may obtain, or the abilities of the item. Some Duals for example may have a rule that your PW Item may not be used even if the WPL's so wish.
The Character that sells/upgrades these? Well, I actually have ideas for that too, but will hold onto them till I can express them more clearly.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
Plus, getting unique effects like that can be done with KK's Talent system, if it were brought back.
More rules stuff:
Couple of edits: The way you describe abilities is too confusing, btw. You refer to spending points to increase abilities, but then talk about pumping points into spells when you cast them to make them better. I realize it's supposed to say mana. You might want to clean that up. Too ambiguous.
Suggestion for how permanents work: Since you can summon any of the vast amount of creatures and/or enchantments of your skill level (1-2 casting cost commons/uncommons for at first level of Conjuration, literally hundreds of creatures) I'd suggest imposing a "4 of any specific creature or enchantment per battle" limit. It opens up some room for Bounce, Reanimation, Destruction, and Exile to have their own individual feel.
{Magic: The RPG}
And there was already a limit of 4 in place, no more then 4 per field, making it per battle could make things pretty difficult for people with low ranks, if you look at some of the old battles, you would see why.
Edit: On Second thought... hmm, its a hard thing to try and impose this limit per dual, because some people it would help balance out, and some it could possibly screw over.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
I know. Go read the rules for Burn or Destruction. It's pretty obvious they need to replace the word "points" with "mana" in some of the ability descriptions to clear it up.
I mean 4 per battle. As in, in any specific battle you can only summon 4 of any one creature. You can still cast any of the other creatures/enchantments you have access too, but only 4 copies total of any individual creature/enchantment. When any of those copies dies, it goes to the graveyard, or can be bounced or exiled. It gives abilities more to differentiate them from others. There's absolutely no difference between Destruction and Exile right now, because there's no graveyard and you can just recast your creature unlimited times. There has to be a limit to keep things in balance and give each ability a niche.
A bit more similar to paper Magic, basically. Maximum of 4 copies of any creature/enchantment per duel. With abilities like Burn or Destruction it's different because you're not actually casting specific spells. But with creatures/enchantments, there has to be a limit to prevent shennanigans and/or unfairness.
{Magic: The RPG}
One thing people seem to forget, is that this is not MTGRPG. We are not mages, with limited range of spells/abilities. We are PLANESWALKER'S. We are supposed to be a little unbalanced.
I do agree that something needs to be done about exile/destruction. Maybe just take exile out altogether.
We have talked about the equipment thing before. The idea was to have points in the artifact: equipment ability for the actual artifact, then to spend some yet to be determined ability points to be able to wield a specific equipment.
While we may be able to summon any of the available things that are part of the associated mana costs for the abilities that use actual cards as permanents, it is understood that you have a list of the most commonly used ones, ie. the only ones you will ever really use. They must fit your character's story, personality, and playstyle.
As far as special abilities go, we give each character a special ability at first level that fits what they want for their character. Both DakmorQueen and myself talk to each and every one of you, asking you if what we come up with is ok for what you wanted the character to be able to do, and for what you want them to be. It is never set in stone, and we appreciate you coming up with your own ideas. Granted, we have yet to get all of them documented in a thread for others to llok at, because we want each and everyone of your characters to be as unique as possible. If we just gave you a list to choose from, you wouldn't have to work at being creative. We aren't just going to do it for you. This is your game too.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5586155&postcount=2
Quinne, PW
I'll highlight the parts that make no sense and use parenthesis to show where the wording needs to be fixed:
May spend additional points (should say mana) into Pump in order to target additional targets.
2 points (should say mana) per extra target
6 points (should say mana) to affect all creatures.
The points (should say mana) you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your pump potential.
Speed: Instant up to 5 and/or four targets, otherwise sorcery.
The unbalanced thing can easily be represented by being able to directly turn mana into Burn, Destruction, Counterspells and stuff instead of using actual spells from the game. But if you're going to use actual cards from the game, as you do when casting creatures and enchantments, you can't disregard all the rules of the game as you would normally and keep everything balanced. It will break the game wide open, I'm almost positive.
I think you misunderstood what I'm trying to say. I think characters should gain the types of abilities you describe, custom-made by the player and WPLs, but every three levels instead of just at first level.
Having special abilities granted only at first level actually inhibits character growth in the long term. Your character's abilities will never grow. They'll be stuck at first-level usefulness when your character is at level 6.
If you've ever played D&D, it's something similar: You don't choose a Feat at first level and are stuck with it forever, never gaining new abilities or being able to improve the ones you already know. You gain new Feats every few levels that represent a growth in your ability and your development as a character.
In fact, I'm positive the "1 Talent every 3 levels" that KoolKoal had in the original rules was inspired by D&D.
{Magic: The RPG}
You want to burn someone for 1? Well, you need a single point in Burn Ability to do that.
You Want to burn two or more targets at once? Alright, spend an extra 2 ability points when you earn them in Burn to give you a single extra target per time you do any of that kind of spell.
You seem to think they are describing In Battle costs, when they are not, the points are for gaining the abilities to do so in the first place.
For example, my Ogre(originally) had no points in Burn, so he couldn't use his mana to directly hurt anything, he had to do it through creatures or enchants. But he DID have Pump 2, so, without the aid of an enchantment, he could power up any one of his creatures by 2(temporarily I believe) with a single non-named spell.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
Also, I have an idea to make exile feel like exile. If something is exiled, it's essence is still on the battlefield. I.e It is still counted towards the four maximum, savvy?
Also, I was working on an idea of allowing SpAs to be upgraded as the character level.
I should say that "Specialized destruction" just adds an unnecessary level of complexity. That's what killed KK's rules. Complexity creep. We're trying to keep everything as non-complex as possible.
It also makes sense when you consider things like Oblivion Ring, an Exiling enchantment(In case anyone didn't know.), if the opponent is able to get rid of it, the essence just reforms into the creature it originally was.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
Exactly. I hadn't noticed before that it didn't work like that.
Again, the rules are still very malleable and we're working to knock the kinks out.
Huh. That's... a really narrow system. There's pretty much no reason to put points into anything other than Conjuration and Enchanting, as far as I can tell. Three points in Enchantment and two in Conjuration can duplicate almost any effect any other Ability could create. They're so absolutely narrow when compared to Conjuration and Enchantment they're obsolete.
An increase in flexibility is, I think, badly needed if that's the way Abilities work. And an increase in flexibility is not the same thing as an increase in complexity.
That's definitely an improvement. I still think letting the players make new abilities as they level would be the ideal solution.
I disagree. In this case, you're sacrificing color identity for the sake of simplicity. My idea adds basically zero complexity. Just give those colors the standard Destruction ability, but specify the color restrictions in the description of the ability. It's that simple.
I think that applies to a few of the rules, in fact. You're letting a fear of complexity detract from the overall potential of the game. An RPG with a well-defined rules system, almost by definition, has to have some degree of complexity. Otherwise you might as well just make this a freeform RPG and do away with the rules entirely.
{Magic: The RPG}
@Complexity: It's a memory issue really...
Maybe narrow wasn't the right word for it. Try limited or rigid. It lacks both simplicity and flexibility.
Look at the way the Pump ability currently works:
May spend additional points into Pump in order to target additional targets.
2 points per extra target
6 points to affect all creatures.
The points you use to affect multiple targets do not count towards your pump potential.
Speed: Instant up to 5 and/or four targets, otherwise sorcery.
You may spend an additional 2 mana to target another creature. You can do this multiple times, spending 2 extra mana per target.
You may spend an additional 5 mana to target each creature you control.
Speed: Instant, or Sorcery if you target each creature you control.
Example:
If you have 2 points in Pump, every 1 mana you spend will give a creature +2/+2. So if you spent 3 mana, you could pump a creature +6/+6.
OR
You could give 2 creatures +2/+2 for 3 mana: 1 mana for the pump, 2 mana for the extra target.
The more mana you spend, the greater the effect you get out of it.
But with the rules written down for everyone to see, memory becomes a non-issue, does it not?
{Magic: The RPG}