1v4 listed 6-2, should be 2-2. 1 doesnt play dovescape before reality twist, and vice versa
1v6 2-0, should be 6-0. its just too fast.
1v9 6-2, definitely 2-2. neither player does anything
1v10 6-2, i think 6-0. 10 can do its thing and theres never a good time for dovescape to come down
1v14 6-2, should be 2-2. once dovescape comes down, tokens trade
2v13 6-2, i agree with feyd's analysis. mana clash is uncastable. 6-0
3v13 2-1, should be 2-2. if 13 waits for 3 to suspend hypergenesis, it can put elemental in play. so no one does.
4v7 2-3, 7 definitely locks out 4 when it goes first.
when 7 goes first, upwelling comes down immediately and starts building as the dovescape player does nothing. if 4 drops reality twist, 7 immediately plays dovescape and makes a 1/1 which outraces the phantasm pretty handily
so 4 doesnt. this is 4-1
4v10 2-0, should be 6-0. upwelling keeps 10 from self damaging
4v14 6-2, should be 2-2, see post 45
9v13 4-3, should be 4-1, mogg's explanation is right, but on the draw he can just not do anything
10v13 2-6, should be 0-6. cast that nexus on turn 5 to kill elemental
should be 2-2. edited.
13v15 0-3, should be 0-6. faster than previously thought
13v19 2-4, should be 0-6. flash flood has no target, and totem is never on time through thorn
also, not listed as a dispute but it is
6v19 0-2 should be 0-6 19 actually can't disrupt, despite what he said.
Maybe I'm missing something with thorn of amethyst, but doesn't playing it also slow mogg down by a turn?
Turn 1, he plays crypt, tap 2, play talisman.
Turn 2, he plays Kyren toy
TUrn 3, he can play either desecration elemental or thorn, but not both
If he plays elemental, he wins on turn 6, and I can play totem on turn 6
If he plays thorn, he wins on turn 7, and I can play totem on turn 7
Maybe I'm missing something with thorn of amethyst, but doesn't playing it also slow mogg down by a turn?
...
So, again, I think it's 4-1, not 6-0
i believe you are correct. i was missing that he cant cast thorn after elemental. that card is super bad.
also: gauntlets of chaos cannot steal a creature in this case because pats doesnt have a creature to trade. he can only exchange an artifact or land.
i think that effects several matchups
1v10 6-2, i think 6-0. 10 can do its thing and theres never a good time for dovescape to come down
I disagree. Right after I cast a Nexus, at exactly 3 life:
B: (A plays: EoT Crack Lotus, Shivan+Nexus, both players at 3 life)
A: Draw Morality
B:
A: Draw Lotus, play Lotus
B: Dovescape, Rainbow Vale->Scout's Warning, make a bird
A: Lotus@1 (mana: Lotus+Shivan+Skyshroud+Vale=4)
B: Attack for 1
A: Lotus@2 mana=5
B: Attack for 1
A: Lotus@3 mana=6
B: Attack for Lethal
I'm 1 mana away from casting Morality shift when I die. I have access to 2 damage through Vale+Lotus, but both players are at 3 so that doesn't matter. edit: actually, I'm 1 mana short of being able to deal a damage through Rainbow Vale. Same end result.
ok, post #69 has been updated for everything above this post. congrats to heinsun for the win!
only question i still have, and im genuinely not sure
6v17
is there a way for deck#6 to win by destroying the djinn with tabernacle?
i'm not sure if that works stack-wise
just a though
current standings:
edit: formatting is hard. i'll fix it. but i did put it in order so you can at least see what place youre in
PLAYER__________WK1WK2WK3WK4PNTSAVG
Heinsun_________412263435---1110370
Feyd_Ruin_______194525365---1084361
Madmanquail_____394325282---1001334
tomsloger_______382263329---0974325
Subtle_Relevance394388176---0958319
notgreat________353313282---0947316
psymunn42_______306313329---0947316
Parsley_________235313341---0889296
WhammeWhamme____412175224---0811270
keyboardmash____106331329---0766255
nerdyjoe________418081265---0764254
yarn____________276450047---0773258
Chrono007_______294---341---0635318
thatmarkguy_____153075318---0546182
Pingele_Pats____---325212---0537269
Draco9__________153194------0347173
Personman_______165150012---0327109
Rush_Clasic_____---175111---0286143
mogg____________------271---0271271
NemataGG________129---------0129129
Sand_Crab_______129---------0129129
Yes, that works. It's being passed back and forth, so at some point the Tabernacle effect will trigger for each player, and as soon as the opportunity arises, the uncle istvan player can simply choose not pay.
thats pretty sound logic. 6v17 fixed in my posts and OP.
Congratulations to Heinsun for winning this round. His deck was, slow, self-damaging, helped the opponent, and was very easily disrupted. Overall, an impressive set of credentials for a backbuild deck!
Pact of Negation was a recent addition to the permabanned list
I bring this up because, if it was not banned, then, for this week at least, it almost certainly should be!
1v6 2-0, should be 6-0. its just too fast.
1v9 6-2, definitely 2-2. neither player does anything
1v10 6-2, i think 6-0. 10 can do its thing and theres never a good time for dovescape to come down
1v14 6-2, should be 2-2. once dovescape comes down, tokens trade
2v13 6-2, i agree with feyd's analysis. mana clash is uncastable. 6-0
3v13 2-1, should be 2-2. if 13 waits for 3 to suspend hypergenesis, it can put elemental in play. so no one does.
4v7 2-3, 7 definitely locks out 4 when it goes first.
when 7 goes first, upwelling comes down immediately and starts building as the dovescape player does nothing. if 4 drops reality twist, 7 immediately plays dovescape and makes a 1/1 which outraces the phantasm pretty handily
so 4 doesnt. this is 4-1
4v10 2-0, should be 6-0. upwelling keeps 10 from self damaging
4v14 6-2, should be 2-2, see post 45
9v13 4-3, should be 4-1, mogg's explanation is right, but on the draw he can just not do anything
10v13 2-6,
should be 0-6. cast that nexus on turn 5 to kill elementalshould be 2-2. edited.
13v15 0-3, should be 0-6. faster than previously thought
13v19 2-4, should be 0-6. flash flood has no target, and totem is never on time through thorn
also, not listed as a dispute but it is
6v19 0-2 should be 0-6 19 actually can't disrupt, despite what he said.
updated grid for all of those corrections:
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 |
1 | X 2 0 2 6 6 2 2 2 2 6 2 2 2 2 2 6 2 | 48 | 282
2 | 2 X 2 2 6 6 2 6 2 6 6 2 6 2 2 2 6 2 | 62 | 365
3 | 6 2 X 0 6 6 6 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 6 2 | 38 | 224
4 | 2 2 6 X 6 6 4 0 0 6 6 2 0 2 2 6 6 2 | 58 | 341
5 | 2 0 0 0 X 2 2 0 0 2 6 6 2 0 2 0 6 0 | 30 | 176
6 | 0 0 0 0 2 X 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 | 08 | 047
7 | 2 2 2 1 2 6 X 2 2 2 6 2 2 2 2 2 6 2 | 45 | 265
8 | 2 0 6 6 6 6 2 X 6 2 6 2 2 6 0 0 6 0 | 58 | 341
9 | 2 2 6 6 6 6 2 0 X 6 6 6 4 2 6 6 6 2 | 74 | 435
0 | 2 0 6 0 2 6 2 2 0 X 6 2 2 2 2 6 6 2 | 48 | 282
1 | 0 0 6 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 X 2 0 0 0 0 6 0 | 20 | 111
2 | 2 2 2 2 0 6 2 2 0 2 2 X 0 2 2 2 6 2 | 36 | 212
3 | 2 0 2 6 2 6 2 2 1 2 6 6 X 2 0 0 6 1 | 46 | 271
4 | 2 2 6 2 6 6 2 0 2 2 6 2 2 X 2 6 6 2 | 56 | 329
5 | 2 2 6 2 2 6 2 6 0 2 6 2 6 2 X 2 6 2 | 56 | 329
6 | 2 2 6 0 6 6 2 6 0 0 6 2 6 0 2 X 6 2 | 54 | 318
7 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 X 2 | 08 | 012
9 | 6 2 2 2 6 6 2 6 2 2 6 2 4 2 2 2 2 X | 56 | 329
Maybe I'm missing something with thorn of amethyst, but doesn't playing it also slow mogg down by a turn?
Turn 1, he plays crypt, tap 2, play talisman.
Turn 2, he plays Kyren toy
TUrn 3, he can play either desecration elemental or thorn, but not both
If he plays elemental, he wins on turn 6, and I can play totem on turn 6
If he plays thorn, he wins on turn 7, and I can play totem on turn 7
So, again, I think it's 4-1, not 6-0
i believe you are correct. i was missing that he cant cast thorn after elemental. that card is super bad.
also:
gauntlets of chaos cannot steal a creature in this case because pats doesnt have a creature to trade. he can only exchange an artifact or land.
i think that effects several matchups
I disagree. Right after I cast a Nexus, at exactly 3 life:
B: (A plays: EoT Crack Lotus, Shivan+Nexus, both players at 3 life)
A: Draw Morality
B:
A: Draw Lotus, play Lotus
B: Dovescape, Rainbow Vale->Scout's Warning, make a bird
A: Lotus@1 (mana: Lotus+Shivan+Skyshroud+Vale=4)
B: Attack for 1
A: Lotus@2 mana=5
B: Attack for 1
A: Lotus@3 mana=6
B: Attack for Lethal
I'm 1 mana away from casting Morality shift when I die. I have access to 2 damage through Vale+Lotus, but both players are at 3 so that doesn't matter.
only question i still have, and im genuinely not sure
6v17
is there a way for deck#6 to win by destroying the djinn with tabernacle?
i'm not sure if that works stack-wise
just a though
current standings:
edit: formatting is hard. i'll fix it. but i did put it in order so you can at least see what place youre in
PLAYER__________WK1WK2WK3WK4PNTSAVG
Heinsun_________412263435---1110370
Feyd_Ruin_______194525365---1084361
Madmanquail_____394325282---1001334
tomsloger_______382263329---0974325
Subtle_Relevance394388176---0958319
notgreat________353313282---0947316
psymunn42_______306313329---0947316
Parsley_________235313341---0889296
WhammeWhamme____412175224---0811270
keyboardmash____106331329---0766255
nerdyjoe________418081265---0764254
yarn____________276450047---0773258
Chrono007_______294---341---0635318
thatmarkguy_____153075318---0546182
Pingele_Pats____---325212---0537269
Draco9__________153194------0347173
Personman_______165150012---0327109
Rush_Clasic_____---175111---0286143
mogg____________------271---0271271
NemataGG________129---------0129129
Sand_Crab_______129---------0129129
thats pretty sound logic. 6v17 fixed in my posts and OP.
09 Heinsun :: "Death by Leeching"
Hollow Trees / Upwelling / Leechridden Swamp / Phyrexian Arena / Tourach's Chant
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