Time for the next round of DCX. In todays game we have the Special Format of Bring Your Own Set!
So for the extra rules.
1. When you "In" you will need to post what single set you will bring with you.
2. All sets are game including core sets (except un-sets, and special sets such as commander and archenemy). Therefore the pool will be as large or small as we make it
3. Given the special nature of this game I will up starting life to 30.
4. If some standard stuff comes into play that we need to ban that list will be updated at that time.
5. Seating and color's will be random.
6. Top Card of library may not be know.
7. I will update this list as necessary should another rule come up.
8. Extra Bans: Deadeye Navigator, Temporal Mastery, Crystal Quarry
I am not currently auto-inning myself. But I will play should we lack a 5th guy.
I pretty much did this somewhat randomly. Also DC4 can slow things down a bit in a format where things might be a bit quick and I think bring your own set has that chance unless everyone goes full worst sets ever picks. I even considered putting a rule that if you picked homelands you started with one less life just because I hate homelands so much.
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The only set to not be reviewed formally from the old system is Avacyn Restored. And from that I suspect I would recommend both Avacyn herself and Gristlebrand be delt with. And then there is the deadeye navigator issue if anyone hates him enough. Also the miracle mechanic is somewhat broken.
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Griselbrand is fine. There's very few ways to really abuse having 7 or 14 card in hand in this format. Avacyn is also perfectly reasonable; plenty of solutions to her.
Deadeye Navigator needs banning for sure. There's absolutely no way that card is fair. It's also close to a hard lock with, for example, Mystic Snake or Draining Whelk.
Some of the miracles may be overpowered. On the whole, the mechanic seems on par with Madness, though; a few colors get a few so-so cards they can play out of turn. We'll see if they end up too broken.
Griselbrand is fine. There's very few ways to really abuse having 7 or 14 card in hand in this format. Avacyn is also perfectly reasonable; plenty of solutions to her.
Deadeye Navigator needs banning for sure. There's absolutely no way that card is fair. It's also close to a hard lock with, for example, Mystic Snake or Draining Whelk.
Some of the miracles may be overpowered. On the whole, the mechanic seems on par with Madness, though; a few colors get a few so-so cards they can play out of turn. We'll see if they end up too broken.
14 cards in hand means 7 discards; a well-stocked graveyard can be pretty powerful. Still, I agree, probably not that bad.
Avacyn herself is fine, it's a cool card but can be dealt with.
I agree that Deadeye is broken - and blue, too, just to make it MORE broken.
Miracle...
I think Temporal Mastery is ridiculously broken. It turns a card drawing engine for blue into a free turn (as in, a turn that doesn't cost them a turn to play it) - it's basically Time Stretch, but it costs 2 mana. Back to back turns with a spell played in each turn could see two players dead before anyone could respond.
Devastation Tide is almost as bad; draw a card in the EOT of the player before you FTW?
Madness is nowhere near as strong; it requires a discard outlet rather than a draw outlet (draw is more useful in and of itself, and actually, we have CYCLING in the format, so actually it doesn't require you to do *anything* to get the Miracle).
In fact, I'm inclined to say the non-green Miracles are all either banned by the format (can't put on top/bottom of deck), or jaw-droppingly powerful. (Also... red can do 11 damage in a single turn out of turn - cycle Resounding Thunder into Thunderous Onslaught... then follow up by cycling something else into Bonfire of the Damned.)
(conversely, Black doesn't get miracles. at all. And Green gets very mediocre ones.)
(oh, and Entreat the Angels is a ton of 4/4 fliers out of nowhere in someone's EOT)
Summary: there are more brokenly scary Miracle cards than ones that seem reasonably reasonable.
It does, but it's a triggered ability, which (like madness) is an exception to the "spells only on your turn" rule.
Temporal Mastery does need a ban, I think that's correct. The others might be too strong too, but they're not so overwhelmingly powerful that I think an emergency ban is called for; let's see how format-warping they are (which was the entire point of my picking the set in the first place!)
Also, frankly, I don't see what's wrong with picking Commander as the set I really want to see how the "tempt" cards work...
So a few key points here then and a few steps I am proposing.
-Ban: Deadeye Navigator
-Ban/Watchlist: Temporal Mastery, Bonfire of the Dammed, Devastation Tide, and Entreat the Angels.
-This leaves up as working miracles: Thunderous Wrath, Revenge of the Hunted, Reforge the Soul, and Blessing of Nature. The remaining one's just don't work because of the card identity rules.
Temporal Mastery I think is a must and with what has been suggested bonfire and entreat also appear rather busted if maybe not devastation tide.
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If you wish you can. But I find it best that we continue our discussion about those miracle cards. Ced brought it up in the main thread some time back just hadn't encountered them yet. If we just want to say that temporal mastery, entreat, and bonfire are bad enough I am good by that. If we just want temporal then I am also fine with that. I'm up for group consensus here.
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If people want to try it, I'm okay with everything but Temporal Mastery... but I feel everyone needs to keep in mind they are very, VERY powerful. Fair?
So for the extra rules.
1. When you "In" you will need to post what single set you will bring with you.
2. All sets are game including core sets (except un-sets, and special sets such as commander and archenemy). Therefore the pool will be as large or small as we make it
3. Given the special nature of this game I will up starting life to 30.
4. If some standard stuff comes into play that we need to ban that list will be updated at that time.
5. Seating and color's will be random.
6. Top Card of library may not be know.
7. I will update this list as necessary should another rule come up.
8. Extra Bans: Deadeye Navigator, Temporal Mastery, Crystal Quarry
I am not currently auto-inning myself. But I will play should we lack a 5th guy.
Players:
1. BronYAur
2. WhammyWhammy
3. Reyemile
4. Tomsloger
5. Fenris
Sets:
ODYSSEY
SHARDS OF ALARA
Avacyn Restored
SHADOWMOOR
ICE AGE
Fenris: Green
Life: 30
CIH: 5
Topdeck: ?
Battlefield:
- Lands: Sungrass Prairie, Mossfire Vally, Firelit Thicket
- Creatures: Elvish Visionary (4x +1/+1 counter), Empyrial Archangel
- Other:
Graveyard: Relic of Progenitus
Exile:
Notes:
Reyemile: Blue
Life: 17
CIH: 2
Battlefield:
- Lands: Sunken Ruinst, Slayer's Strongholdt, Darkwater Catacombst
- Creatures:
--Bruna, Light of Alabaster (0 age counters, 8/8)
--Sedris, the Traitor King (0 age counters, 8/8)
--Phantatog (4/5 without activations)
--Griselbrand (8/8)
--Thistledown Leige (0 age counters, 2/4)
--Patron Wizard (4/4, t)
--Merieke Ri Beret (0 age counters, 5/5, t, linked to griselbrand)
--Mistmeadow Witch (4/4)
--glen elendra liege (0 age counters, 3/4)
--Reaper King (0 age counters, 9/9)
--Glamer Spinners (0 age counters, 5/7)
--Merrow Grimeblotter (0 age counters 5/5)
- Other: Dreams of the Dead
Graveyard: Rafiq of the Many, Prince of Thralls
Exile: Concentrate, Psychatog, Sharuum the Hegemon, River Kelpie
Notes:
Tomsloger: Black
life: 18
cih: 7
battlefield:
- lands: graven cairnst, skycloud expanset, Desolate Lighthouse t
- creatures:
- other: screams of the damned
graveyard: zombify, corpse connoiseur, faerie macabre, cemetery puca,
exile: esper charm, viscera dragger, shadowmage infiltrator, windwright mage, inkfathom witch
notes:
BronYAur: White
Life: 25
CIH: 5
Topdeck: ?
Battlefield:
- Lands: Mystic Gate t, Alchemist's Refuge, Wooded Bastion t
- Creatures: Sphinx Sovereign
- Other: Elsewhere Flask, Minion Reflector
Graveyard:
Exile: Entreat the Angels
Notes:
WhammeWhamme: Red
Life: 27
CIH: 3
Battlefield:
- Lands: Shadowblood Ridge t, Deserted Templet, Cavern of Souls (human) t
- Creatures: Zealous Conscripts t, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
- Other: Conquer enchanting Deserted Temple
Graveyard: thunderous wrath, bonfire of the damned
Exile: Reforge the Soul
Notes:
Out of curiosity... why DC4?
LAME.
Avacyn Restored, then.
But commander would be way cooler.
Deadeye Navigator needs banning for sure. There's absolutely no way that card is fair. It's also close to a hard lock with, for example, Mystic Snake or Draining Whelk.
Some of the miracles may be overpowered. On the whole, the mechanic seems on par with Madness, though; a few colors get a few so-so cards they can play out of turn. We'll see if they end up too broken.
14 cards in hand means 7 discards; a well-stocked graveyard can be pretty powerful. Still, I agree, probably not that bad.
Avacyn herself is fine, it's a cool card but can be dealt with.
I agree that Deadeye is broken - and blue, too, just to make it MORE broken.
Miracle...
I think Temporal Mastery is ridiculously broken. It turns a card drawing engine for blue into a free turn (as in, a turn that doesn't cost them a turn to play it) - it's basically Time Stretch, but it costs 2 mana. Back to back turns with a spell played in each turn could see two players dead before anyone could respond.
Devastation Tide is almost as bad; draw a card in the EOT of the player before you FTW?
Madness is nowhere near as strong; it requires a discard outlet rather than a draw outlet (draw is more useful in and of itself, and actually, we have CYCLING in the format, so actually it doesn't require you to do *anything* to get the Miracle).
In fact, I'm inclined to say the non-green Miracles are all either banned by the format (can't put on top/bottom of deck), or jaw-droppingly powerful. (Also... red can do 11 damage in a single turn out of turn - cycle Resounding Thunder into Thunderous Onslaught... then follow up by cycling something else into Bonfire of the Damned.)
(conversely, Black doesn't get miracles. at all. And Green gets very mediocre ones.)
(oh, and Entreat the Angels is a ton of 4/4 fliers out of nowhere in someone's EOT)
Summary: there are more brokenly scary Miracle cards than ones that seem reasonably reasonable.
Temporal Mastery does need a ban, I think that's correct. The others might be too strong too, but they're not so overwhelmingly powerful that I think an emergency ban is called for; let's see how format-warping they are (which was the entire point of my picking the set in the first place!)
Also, frankly, I don't see what's wrong with picking Commander as the set I really want to see how the "tempt" cards work...
also, commander sounds like it could be its own format...
-Ban: Deadeye Navigator
-Ban/Watchlist: Temporal Mastery, Bonfire of the Dammed, Devastation Tide, and Entreat the Angels.
-This leaves up as working miracles: Thunderous Wrath, Revenge of the Hunted, Reforge the Soul, and Blessing of Nature. The remaining one's just don't work because of the card identity rules.
Temporal Mastery I think is a must and with what has been suggested bonfire and entreat also appear rather busted if maybe not devastation tide.
Anyway So I am in with Ice Age. Also we have navigator and temp mastery added to ban list. Rolling time.
Order is WUBRG #'s are in count.
White
Blue
Black
Red
Green whoever is left
Play order
1
2
3
4
5 whoever is left
I will update the first post.
So I'm up first with green. Really was wishing for first with red for some everyone draw 7 turn 1 action :).
Anyway.
UUD (1 cih). Play Elvish Visionary. Draw my card. Play Sungrass Prairie. Pass my turn.
Fenris: Green
Life: 30
CIH: 0
Topdeck: ?
Battlefield:
- Lands: Sungrass Prairie
- Creatures: Elvish Visionary
- Other:
Graveyard:
Exile:
Notes: