What is Blind Magic?
Blind Magic is an online Magic format played here on the forums. Players play with an extremely limited deck size, such as 3 cards. Players begin with their entire deck (ie: those three cards) in hand and have no library (players don't lose when they fail to draw a card because of this). Due to the extremely limited number of play options given with their small deck size, games are calculated, rather then played, with an absolute determined winner (or a tie). Each player plays a match of two games against each other player who submitted - once going first, and once going second. Wins, losses, and ties for each of those two games are calculated by the moderator and players. The actual fun of the game comes from trying to decide which cards you will be playing.[/space]
What is the All Blind Tournament?
The All Blind Tournament is a four-week XCB tournament, which spans all card blind formats and embraces a progressive anti-metagame. For each week of the four-week tournament, a new XCB format is announced for players to enter. Players compete for points (similiar to the PotM points for previous XCB games) each round. At the end of the four-week tournament, the player who has accumulated the most points over the four weeks wins the tournament, and receives a real-world prize.[/space]
Basic Rules of All Blind Tournament
Below lies the rules of ABT written in laymen's terms for ease of understanding.
While a comprehensive rule system exists, new players and quick glances are best left for this basic explanation.
Overview
The All Blind Tournament (ABT) is a Magic tournament that consists of four rounds of X Card Blind (XCB), run entirely within this forum. To compete, entrants submit decks containing X cards which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
Deck Construction Rules
1. A deck must contain exactly X cards.
2. A deck may contain any number of copies of any Vintage-legal card, but can't contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
3. A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game before an opponent's second turn.
4. A player's deck must not enable that player to force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's second turn.
5. A player's deck must enable that player to win the game.
Deck Submission Rules
6. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator by private message (pm).
Playing the Decks
7. Entrants don't actually play their decks, because game results can be determined theoretically.
8. Each player starts the game with the cards in his or her deck in his or her hand.
9. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
10. A random effect resolves in favor of the opponent of the owner of that effect.
11. Players know all information that would normally be concealed from them.
12. Each player plays one two-game match against each other player, and each player is the starting player once per match.
Points
13. The entrant with the most points in a round is the round winner. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, an entrant earns only 2 points for a split match (each player wins a game).
14. The entrant with the most points in the four rounds comprising the ABT is the tournament winner. Extra Rules
15. Some optional rules may be used; see Optional Rules.
16. The Basic Rules don't cover every issue. For in-depth rules, see Comprehensive Rules.
Optional Rules
Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
Expanded Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
Alternative Land Rule
If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land card of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
Sanctioned Magic Format
A deck may contain only cards contained in sets legal in the specified format.
Counter Rule
Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
Life Rule
If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win the game as though this rule didn't exist.
Special Format
Other rules are specified.
XCB Comprehensive Rules
Below lies the comprehensive rules system for the ABT.
Rules are written for precision and game clarification. They are not written for ease of reading.[/space]
Game Rules
1.1. There are many versions of XCB. Each version has a name, of the form XCB 'Land Rule' 'Sanctioned Magic Format' 'Special Format' '(Bonus)' 'Counter Rule' 'Life Rule'.
1.1a. X is a number.
1.1b. 'Land Rule' can be LR, ELR, ALR, or nothing. LR indicates that the basic land rule is in effect, ELR indicates that the expanded land rule is in effect, and ALR indicates that the alternative land rule is in effect (see Rule 1.7).
1.1c. 'Sanctioned Magic Format' can be the name of a sanctioned Magic constructed format or nothing. The name of a format indicates that only cards contained in sets legal in that format may be submitted. This is an exception to rule 2.3c.
1.1d. 'Special Format' can be the name of at least one special format or nothing. The name of a special format indicates that the special format in effect (see Rule 1.8).
1.1e. 'Bonus' can be (Bonus) or nothing. (Bonus) modifies the preceding special format, indicating that an entrant must not follow the rules of that format, but that entrant will earn a specified number of bonus points if he or she does (see Rule 2.4f).
1.1f. 'Counter Rule' can be C or nothing. C indicates that the counter rule is in effect (see Rule 1.9).
1.1g. 'Life Rule' can be LF, AL, or nothing. LF indicates that the life rule is in effect and AL indicates that the alternative life rule is in effect (see Rule 1.10).
1.2. Decks are not played, but are scored as though they were. The player of a deck is the entrant who submitted that deck.
1.3. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
1.3a. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
1.3b. Rules that would take effect during the prerelease for a set take effect during the first round for which cards from that set may be submitted instead (see Rule 2.3d).
1.4. An entrant's deck contains exactly X cards (see Rule 1.1).
1.4a. A player's opening hand contains the cards in his or her deck.
1.4b. Players don't draw hands or mulligan.
1.4c. Players don't have sideboards.
1.5. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
1.5a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.6. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid the cost or the owner of the source of the effect instead.
1.7. Some versions of XCB use a land rule.
1.7a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
1.7b. This is the expanded land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
1.7c. This is the alternative land rule (ALR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
1.8. Some versions of XCB use a special format. A special format is an extra set of rules. These rules overwrite any other applicable rules. A non-comprehensive list of special formats is maintained here.
1.8a. Some special formats cause players to draw hands. The drawn cards become part of that player's opening hand.
1.8b. Some special formats generate continuous effects. Continuous effects generated by special formats are applied in the order those formats are listed in the XCB version name, before any other effects that could be applied in a layer.
1.8c. Some special formats require an entrant to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a deck. An entrant's submission is that entrant's deck and any decisions that entrant makes. An entrant's submission must not violate rule 2.3 if all instances of the word 'deck' in that rule are replaced with 'submission'.
1.8d. Some special formats refer to decks that obtain or could obtain results. Saying that a deck obtains or could obtain a result means that the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result in a game or match against another player (see Rule 1.11). If a deck obtains or could obtain a result against another deck, then the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result against the player of the other deck.
1.9. Some versions of XCB use the counter rule.
1.9a. This is the counter rule (C). Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
1.10. Some versions of XCB use a life rule.
1.10a. This is the life rule (LF). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win a match as though this rule didn't exist (see Rule 2.3b).
1.10b. This is the alternative life rule (AL). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
1.11. Each player plays one match against each other player.
1.11a. Each match has two games.
1.11b. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
1.11c. Games are played with perfect information; players know the identities of face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
1.11d. Games are played optimally. The best outcome for a player is to win the game and the worst outcome is to lose the game.
1.11e. If a loop containing at least one optional action would be repeated indefinitely during a turn, then any player may propose a number of times for that loop to repeat instead. If a player does, then each other player may propose a different number and the loop is repeated for the greatest number of times proposed instead. No player is required to make a choice that would end a loop that crosses multiple turns.
1.11f. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
Tournament Rules
2.1. Entrants compete in a competition.
2.1a. The shortest type of competition is a round. Typically, each round lasts one week.
2.1b. The ABT is a competition consisting of four rounds.
2.2. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator.
2.2a. An entrant submits his or her deck by private message (pm).
2.2b. An entrant may submit multiple decks, but only the most recently submitted deck is counted.
2.2c. An illegal deck is not counted. At the moderator’s discretion, an illegal deck may be replaced by a similar deck – in which any cards causing that deck to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
2.2d. The moderator determines the result of each match. Entrants may challenge results, but not after the results of the first round of a new ABT has been posted, except at the moderator's discretion.
2.2e. An entrant may name his or her deck. If an entrant doesn't, then the moderator may name it.
2.3. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3a. An entrant may not submit a deck that could enable the player of that deck to win the game or force any cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn. A card is forced to change zones if the owner of that card could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in either that card changing zones or that player losing the game before his or her second turn. Ignore this rule in the following cases:
i. All cards in an opponent's hand that would be forced to change zones would not be cast by that opponent and would enter the battlefield under that opponent's control. For example, a 4CB deck with two copies of Black Lotus could contain Stronghold Gambit but could not contain Wild Evocation.
ii. All cards in an opponent's hand that weren't there as a result of a cost or effect that opponent controlled that would be forced to change zones during the resolution of a spell or ability would be in that opponent's hand after that spell or ability resolved. For example, a 3CB deck could contain Timetwister and Black Lotus but an 8CB deck could not.
iii. Cards in an opponent's hand would be forced to change zones only if cards in that opponent's hand that started outside the game would cause that opponent's maximum hand size at the start of the game to be exceeded. For example, a 3CB LR deck could contain two copies of Ancestral Recall.
iv. The rule would be violated only in a game that existed as a result of an effect that resolved not before the specified turn or until each player had completed the specified number of turns that restarted the game or created a subgame. For example, a 2CB LR deck could contain Karn Liberated.
2.3b. An entrant may not submit a deck that wouldn't enable the player of that deck to win a match (see Rule 2.4d) against the player of at least one deck satisfying all rules.
2.3c. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1). Except as modified by a special format, all cards used in a game must be legal in Vintage.
2.3d. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card that will become legal in Vintage upon release of a set that's been revealed fully and officially since the start of the round.
2.3e. A deck may not contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
2.4. Points determine round standings.
2.4a. Entrants are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game.
2.4c. The combined result of both games in a match is called a match result. Possible match results are: 6 – two wins, 4 – a win and a draw, 3 or 2 or S – a win and a loss, 2 – two draws, 1 – a draw and a loss, and 0 – two losses.
2.4d. Some match results are also denoted by names: two wins – match win, a win and a loss – split match, two draws – draw, and two losses – match loss. An entrant wins the match if he or she wins both games, splits the match if he or she wins a game and loses a game, draws a match if he or she draws both games, and loses the match if he or she loses both games.
2.4e. An entrant earns only 2 points for a split match. This is an exception to rule 2.4b.
2.4f. An entrant may earn a number of bonus points defined by a special format. An entrant earns these points in addition to any other points.
2.4g. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Its rows represent entrants and its columns represent those entrants' opponents. An entrant's total number of points is listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. The entrant with the most tournament points over the course of the ABT is the tournament winner.
2.5a. Each round, an entrant receives tournament points equal to his or her average match result for that round multiplied by 100, rounded to the nearest integer or some number of decimal places chosen at the moderator's discretion. For example, an entrant scoring 6-6-6-6-X-0-0-0 in a round with 8 entrants receives 340 tournament points ((6 + 6 + 6 + 6) / (8 - 1) x 100).
2.5b. If two or more entrants would win the ABT, then each of those entrants competes in additional rounds specified by the moderator, until only one entrant has the most tournament points. Each additional round contains only the entrants who have the most tournament points. The moderator may specify a limit to the number of additional rounds.
3. Prize Rules
3.1. A prize shall be given to the tournament winner.
3.1a. The winner of the tournament shall be given the prize described within the tournament, or a suitable replacement upon the tournament's end.
3.1b. If the winner of the tournament has won two or more tournaments, then the highest ranked entrant who hasn't won two or more tournaments shall be given the prize instead.
3.1c. If the winner was a moderator for two or more rounds of the tournament, then the highest ranked entrant who wasn't the moderator for two or more rounds of that tournament shall be given the prize instead. This is to ensure fair play.
3.1d. An entrant may decline the prize. If he or she does, then that entrant may designate another entrant to receive the prize.
3.1e. Entrants under the age of 18 are ineligible for prizes, due to federal laws regarding the sharing of personal information of minors.
3.1f. In the event that a prize can't be given to an entrant, the moderator will do his best to find another suitable way to reward that entrant.
3.1g. No prize is 100% guaranteed, but is assumed upon a good faith basis. Let's face it, with international customs, weird laws, etc, we can't guarantee anything. We'll do our best.
3.2. As a prized tournament, special scoring rules and practices are in place.
3.2a. Entrants are responsible for their own scoring. Assistance will be given, especially to new entrants, but it is ultimately up to each entrant to ensure his or her scoring is completed and accurate.
3.2b. Incomplete scores are considered losses, even to both players in a match if necessary. This is to make sure a winner is determined at the end of a tournament.
3.2c. The moderator always has the final word regarding scores and rules. Entrants may question any scoring the moderator does, until the moderator says that a match's scoring is final.
3.2d. The moderator may, at his or her discretion, determine a match is too difficult to calculate and give it a tie score, or his or her best guess. Again, this is final.
3.2e. Once a winner has been announced as final, that entrant shall receive the prize, even if errors in scoring or points are shown later.
Permanently Banned Cards
The following cards are permanently banned in the All Blind Tournament.
Each round will have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.[/space]
Tournament Prize
The prize is another steam gift card. The steam gift card for the last tournament will go out once final standings have been calculated.[/space]
-
Player Standings
Previous standings will always be posted below the opening post of each week's thread.
Standings will be updated after the current week has been completed and score checking has finished.[/space]
1 - tomsloger: On the draw, I can Spiketail a turn two tender, or get my beat on with an Aura Apprentice ready to counter stuff. I win the race if he slowrolls. 6-0
2 - psly4mne: On the play, I can Spike/Apprentice to counter the Aura Fracture. This means I can instead counter Beacon. 1-4
3 - aurorasparrow: I can chump Thrun forever. 2-2
4 - Feyd_Ruin: On the play, Spike shuts down Azusa. On the draw, can't stop the flashback. 3-3
5 - draco9: Drake can block Nexus, who needs Auras, recursion wins 6-0.
7 - bateleur: I got nothin'. 0-6
8 - reyemile: I can always counter Braids, 2/2 races. 6-0
9 - yarn: EOT Esper Charm allows him to force through Scavenger. 0-6
Results for psly4mne : fractured fairytales
Ancient Tomb / Aura Fracture / Beacon of Destruction
vs
1tomsloger : instant army
bloom tender / bloom tender / patrol signaller
I kill stuff.
6-0
3aurorasparrow : path to ascetisism
Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
I race him.
6-0
4Feyd_Ruin : ramp hard
Ancient Tomb / Army of the Damned / Azusa, Lost but Seeking
I lose to turn 4 Army.
0-6
5draco9 : savage harpist
Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
I kill Harpist before he untaps with it.
6-0
6WhammeWhamme : the kitchen sink
Spiketail Hatchling / Daring Apprentice / Volrath's Stronghold
On the draw, Hatchling counters Fracture and Apprentice counters Beacon. But if he ever attacks, I can resolve one of my spells.
4-1
7bateleur[b] : The Biggest Enchantment of All
Black Lotus / Eureka / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Emrakul is the reason I played Fracture.
6-0
8[b]reyemile : bogle, cabal minion
Exploration / Slippery Bogle / Braids, Cabal Minion
If he puts Braids on Bogle, I can kill the Braids. If he tries to put Bogle on Braids, I can kill Braids in response.
6-0
9yarn : benbuzz would be proud
anurid scavenger / esper charm / qasali pridemage
On the draw: Charm is faster than Beacon, so I have to discard Fracture and Tomb. If he never plays Scavenger, I outrace him. When he does play Scavenger, I kill it then kill the Pridemage, but he sacrifices the Pridemage targeting itself to fizzle Beacon.
On the play, I drop Tomb and outrace him.
4-1
In hindsight, Ronom Unicorn would have done loads better than ye olde Pridemage, but I was expecting a bunch more artifacts than well, zero. Plus, unicorn > cat.
1tomsloger : instant army Bloom Tender / Bloom Tender / Patrol Signaler
3-3 Pretty sweet t3 combo. I can break Signaler twice on the play but nonce on the draw.
y1 land go
f1 land, Tomb, Azusa, double land (5 mana) 18-20
y2 land go (building up to Esper charm) 18-20
f2 double land (7 mana) swing 18-19
y3 Charm you 18-19
f3 double land (9 mana) swing 18-18
y4 Scavenger 18-18
f4 double land (11 mana) Flashback Army 18-18
y5 draw Charm, QPM 18-18
f5 alpha strike for 27. I block two zombies and break one with QPM, nope. 18-0
d1 land, Inky, Harpist
y1 land go
d2 assuming you bestow Force, swing for 9 to 20-11
y2 QPM 20-11 clearly you can't deal the 20 normal damage if I block, so going back.
d2 animate, swing 20-19(1)
y2 land go 20-19(1)
d3 animate, swing 20-18(2)
y3 Charm you to discard Force. From here I can use QPM or Charm with recursion to clear your board in time.
8reyemile : bogle, cabal minion Exploration / Slippery Bogle / Braids, Cabal Minion
3-3 Neat t2 lock! I get locked out on the draw. On the play QPM breaks Braids if you bestow, or I Charm her if you wait for t3.
0-6 If I cast Eureka he drops everything except Signaler and then goes off on his turn. I get to attack if I want to, but he has a million little dudes to sac.
2 psly4mne : fractured fairytales
Ancient Tomb / Aura Fracture / Beacon of Destruction
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
3 aurorasparrow : path to ascetisism
Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
4 Feyd_Ruin : ramp hard
Ancient Tomb / Army of the Damned / Azusa, Lost but Seeking
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
5 draco9 : savage harpist
Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
9 yarn : benbuzz would be proud
anurid scavenger / esper charm / qasali pridemage
0-6 Pridemage kills Emrakul, then Esper Charm causes me to discard Eureka before I've redrawn Emrakul. I can hardcast Emrakul on my turn 12, but Pridemage and Scavenger kill me long before then, with the Scavenger kept in play by recycling Esper Charm.
Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
Private Mod Note
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Some corrections:
WW vs Draco9: WW can block forever, but he can never attack profitably into Inkwell+Harpist, as trading 1 damage for 1 poison is no good. Should be 2-2.
WW vs bateleur: On the play, WW can counter Eureka then win before hardcast Emrakul comes down. Should be 3-3
yarn vs psly4mne: On the draw, I can discard Tomb+Fracture to the Charm and try to race with Beacon, so he has to speed up his clock with Anurid. When I Beacon his creatures, he loses both to fizzle the Beacon. Should be 4-1 for me.
yarn's chart line is all weird, but the results in his spoiler block are otherwise right.
bateleur vs psly4mne: Aura Fracture kills Emrakul every time. Should be 6-0 for me.
bateleur vs Feyd: If Feyd is on the play, he plays turn 1 Tomb, Azusa, 3 lands. Bateleur plays Eureka. Feyd plays 3 lands and Army. Bateleur can annihilate lands, but Zombies swing back and win. Should be 3-3.
Maybe Eldrazi are okay to stay.
Bateleur, you definitely don't 6-0 me. When Braids is an Aura, it has it's ability and gives its ability again to Bogle--you have to sacrifice two permanents. That means you lose a land and Emrakul, and can never keep a second land in play long enough to protect Emrakul.
Also, Emrakul is an enchantment, so Aura Fracture kills it--you are 0-6 vs. Psylymme.
Oh, and Feyd kills you on the play. Azusa lets him cast Army on turn 2. He sacrifices lands to Annihilator, and swings back for lethal at one life (after two Ancient Tomb activations.
And WhammeWhamme beats you on the play too. Once again. Aura's keep their abilities, so Whamme can swing with the drake while keeping his Daring Apprentice aura untapped to counter Eureka (turn 1 Eureka just gets countered by drake)
When Braids is an Aura, it has it's ability and gives its ability again to Bogle
None of the WotC bestows do this, do I don't see where you get that from.
Private Mod Note
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
When Braids is an Aura, it has it's ability and gives its ability again to Bogle
None of the WotC bestows do this, do I don't see where you get that from.
From the round rules?
"The bestow Aura grants all of its abilities to enchanted creature and also gives it +X/+Y, where X is the bestow Aura's printed power and Y is the printed toughness."
One of the decks I was considering would have 6-0'd the field. Oh well, hopefully that was good enough.
NOTE:
I have different results from a couple above. WhammWhamme - You were right. I changed it. bateleur - Annihilator 6 isn't enough to do it on my play (I have 7 lands, a creature, and 13 tokens that kill you).
1 bloom tender / bloom tender / patrol signaler Infinite 1/1s beat me thirteen 2/2s. 0-6
As pointed out by psly4mne, I make tokens on my 2nd, you put out dude, I swing before you go infinite.
On draw, you go infinite before my army can swing.
3-3
2 Ancient Tomb / Aura Fracture / Beacon of Destruction
Aura fracture kills Azusa after I play extra lands (priority).
This lets me win in just enough time.
At this point, he has to kill me or kill 5 tokens.
He can burn 1, and sac lands for 4 others.
It'd then be 3 turns before he could burn again, so death.
He could burn 1 and sac all lands to kill 7 of 13.
But again, he can't recover.
Burning me to 6 doesn't do anything.
6-0
3 Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
Again, priority lets asuza play lands before Path.
My tokens hit turn 4, as does thrun.
Count in flashback, and it's an overrun.
6-0
4 Ancient Tomb / Army of the Damned / Azusa, Lost but Seeking
x
5 Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus Harpist hits auras, which I use none of.
He flys over for a 3rd turn win. I army a 3rd. Split.
It's a 4th turn kill. I kill on 3rd. No other real interaction.
6-0
6 Spiketail Hatchling / Daring Apprentice / Volrath's Stronghold If he ever swings with apprentice, I can drop azusa and cast+flashback army.
So he swings with hatchling alone.
Thus, he wins on his 21st turn.
On turn 17 (19 mana) I cast (counter) and flashback Army. I'm at 2.
He can swing me to 1, but then the army overtakes.
Pointed out below.
He enchants his Hatchtail with Apprentice.
This means he swings for 2 and wins handily on his play.
3-3
7 Black Lotus / Eureka / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
On my play, I have 7 lands, Asuza, and 13 tokens when he swings.
Sac all but 1 land, return a swing for the win.
On my draw, I have 4 lands and azusa. Board wipe. Loss
3-3
9 anurid scavenger / esper charm / qasali pridemage
I cast out on 2nd, so Charm/Pridemage won't touch me before then.
He can kill 1 token, dies to other 12.
6-0
________
Eldrazi:
As far as Eldrazi, I'd rather ban the enablers that cheat him in.
I get that it's the annihilator that wrecks so much havoc, but there's others.
Would cheating in Progenitus, Iona, Bolas PW, or Worldspine Worm be that much less powerful?
I think it's Eureka that's the occasional problem (see Show and Tell's ban)
(Shelldock Isle is also suspect) (Sneak Attack doesn't seem as strong)
________
Round:
2 Cards from Rav Block / M14 /Theros Block (including Born of the Gods) + 1 Infinite Born of the Gods card, right?
Feyd_Ruin: I bestow Apprentice onto Hatchling and swing for 2 per turn.
vs Draco9: Hold back Spiketail, swing with Apprentice.
vs. tom (as pointed out by yarn): I have a hard counter from my aura on turn two, as the Aura-prentice can tap-sac the turn it comes into play. So I just leave the Aura-prentice up to stop the combo and start swinging.
...I just realize I forgot that the enchanted Hatchling also has tap-sac-counter, not sure if this affects any matches.
Feyd, I disagree with you in a few places:
vs tomsloger: He doesn't make tokens until turn 3, so on the play you can kill him first. 3-3
vs Draco9: Unless I'm missing something, he can't win until turn 4 (1 mana to animate, 3 mana to enchant in the same turn), so you 6-0
vs WhammWhamme: Daring Apprentice enchants Spiketail, so he can keep one counter up while swinging for 2. If you're on the play, he can't counter on turn 2 and turn 3, but he races you on the play. 3-3.
I'm almost done calculating the rest of the results, since this is a pretty easy week. I'll post them some time today.
As far as Eldrazi go, I think this round demonstrated that there are plenty of answers to them. It's worth keeping an eye on the enablers, but they are going to lose to any deck that can answer the creature or the enabler. I would not be sad to see the Eldrazi (or more enablers) go, but I don't think it's needed.
5 Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
Harpist hits auras, which I use none of.
He flys over for a 3rd turn win. I army a 3rd. Split.
3-3
I just realized that Nexus Savagery is a 4th turn win, not 3rd.
1. Nexus, Plains, Harpist
2. Forest, Animate, Swing 1 Poison
3. Forest. He can't animate and enchant. Not enough mana (3+nexus). 2 Poison
4. Animate, Enchant, Swing +9 = 11 Poison
Feyd, I disagree with you in a few places:
vs tomsloger: He doesn't make tokens until turn 3, so on the play you can kill him first. 3-3
vs Draco9: Unless I'm missing something, he can't win until turn 4 (1 mana to animate, 3 mana to enchant in the same turn), so you 6-0
vs WhammWhamme: Daring Apprentice enchants Spiketail, so he can keep one counter up while swinging for 2. If you're on the play, he can't counter on turn 2 and turn 3, but he races you on the play. 3-3.
tomsolger: Ohoh. So I do.
The other two I picked up right as you did. Thank you though. I was off on my maths a bit.
I was under the misunderstanding that 3-3s counted as 3 towards POTM points. That means I miscalculated the last round's POTM points, and I'm pretty sure tomsloger copied my numbers. I will fix that.
I was under the misunderstanding that 3-3s counted as 3 towards POTM points. That means I miscalculated the last round's POTM points, and I'm pretty sure tomsloger copied my numbers. I will fix that.
Yeah, they count as 2.
It may have been miscalc'd on a couple of lines then :/
Quote from psly4mne »
9yarn : benbuzz would be proud
anurid scavenger / esper charm / qasali pridemage
On the draw: Charm is faster than Beacon, so I have to discard Fracture and Tomb. If he never plays Scavenger, I outrace him. When he does play Scavenger, I kill it then kill the Pridemage, but he sacrifices the Pridemage targeting itself to fizzle Beacon.
On the play, I drop Tomb and outrace him.
On your draw, I think you might lose.
If he charm's 3rd, you ditch two, keep beacon.
He then drops scavenger on his 4th.
On his 5th, he returns charm, while you're still at 4 mana, so he charm's again.
If you keep/cast Fracture, he Charms hand before you cast, Qasali's Fracture, then Anurid Beats.
5v6:
I agree with WW that he should 6-0 it.
He swings with an apprentice (no aura) after everything settles down and he has mana.
Draco9 can make a 10/2 trampler with infect. This still gets blocked by a 1/1. 9 poison.
Harpist stays on field as a 1/1, savagery dies as being a 0 power creature. Tricks are over.
Top deck Hatchling, draw it, recast it.
If he swings with Inkmoth, its a trade.
The 1/1 apprentice keeps the +8/+0 from happening before he can recover Hatchling and recast to block.
After about 5th turn, his apprentice is a 1/1 beating stick that wins it.
1: 2nd turn Braids, but he still gets his 2 mana to go infinite on play. 3-3
2: Fracture kills braids, even IRSP to bogle. 0-6
3: Enchanting Bogle with Braids keeps Path away. Land denial. 6-0
4: too fast. 0-6
5: Harpist hits either aura. Blocks braids once. 10 swings to 11. 0-6
6: Braids is countered. Recur, outrace/block Bogle. 0-6
7: Emrakul swings fast. Lands pay braids. 0-6
8: X
9: Pridemage hits braids on play, never sees 2 mana on draw. 3-3
5: Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
1: Harpist can't stop it. Mana ability to tap, activation to untap. Infinite wins. 0-6
2: Fracture hits Inkmoth. 0-6
3: Path hits nexus and Harpist. 0-6
4: 3rd turn vs 4th turn wins. 0-6
5: x
6: Above. Recur blocker, swing with 2/2. 0-6
7: Can't pay annihilator. 0-6
8: barely pay braids, Harpist away aura, block once, swing with 2 life left 6-0
9: Pridemage hits nexus 0-6
3: Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
1: Path hits tenders + Signaler. 6-0
2: Beacon outraces 4/4. 0-6
3: x
4: Kills as thrun hits. 0-6
5: Path Nexus and Harpist. 6-0
6: Exile apprentice, can't exile hatchling. Infiblock. 2-2
7: Em is path proof, thurn isn't annihilator proof. 0-6
8: Path can't hit bogggle. Denied thrun. 0-6
9: Charm gets rid of path. Infiblock either direction. 2-2
1: bloom tender / bloom tender / patrol signaller
1: X
2: Fractured. 0-6
3: Pathed twice. Signaler is one of them. 0-6
4: Infinite blockers, or not. 3-3
5: Harpist can't stop it. 6-0
6: Hatchling counters, Daring counters. Recur wins. 0-6
7: Let him eureka, tap 1 guy to pay Bestow. Go infinite. 6-0
8: 2 mana on play, 1 on draw. 3-3
9: Pridemage stops on draw, can't on play. 3-3
Your table is almost right, Feyd - you have 6v7 as 3-0 where it should be 3-3, and you have bateleur getting some wins that were corrected. Also, yarn vs aurorasparrow should be 2-2 as Thrun can block forever. You also have you vs yarn as 6-6 where it should be 6-0 for you.
1v3: You're right. He can let a tender sit. If he goes to bestow, path IRSP, then path Signaler that came in as creature.
5v8: Typo. Should be 6-0 for 5
(and I didn't finish editing bat's line. I was doing everyone else's and seeing how it compared).
So we just disagreed on one
One last correction.
WhammeWhamme v Me is back to 3-3 (i had edited it 4-1 in his favor).
I cast on 2nd, he hatchling counters it.
I can still flashback on 3rd before Apprentice isn't summon sick.
...Shoulda just listened from the start. Sorry WhammWhamme. You da man.
psly4mne and I should tie for the week.
psly4mne should win ABT#16
Vs. 5, I play turn 2 braids, turn 3 enchant with Bogle, which still has hexproof, so Harpist can't hit it. 5 chumps when I swing on turn 3, then dies 7 swings later on turn 10, two turns before I get poisoned out.
Vs. 7, Braids keeps its ability as an aura, so Bogle plus Braids force two sacrifices. Turn 1 Emrakul leaves only one land in play, so Emrakul gets killed. There's no way for 7 to get a second land in play to protect emrakul.
From the round rules?
"The bestow Aura grants all of its abilities to enchanted creature and also gives it +X/+Y, where X is the bestow Aura's printed power and Y is the printed toughness."
Right, but "bestow" means a creature which when cast as an aura gives the abilities it would have had as a creature to whatever it enchants. It does not, in the case of any real card, also keep them.
But yes, I'm aware it's ambiguous as worded which is why I asked for clarification in the 16.3 thread.
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
From the round rules?
"The bestow Aura grants all of its abilities to enchanted creature and also gives it +X/+Y, where X is the bestow Aura's printed power and Y is the printed toughness."
Right, but "bestow" means a creature which when cast as an aura gives the abilities it would have had as a creature to whatever it enchants. It does not, in the case of any real card, also keep them.
But yes, I'm aware it's ambiguous as worded which is why I asked for clarification in the 16.3 thread.
Every real Bestow card keeps its own abilities when it is an Aura. For example, Herald of Torment still causes life loss when it's an aura. In most cases, this is either irrelevant or indistinguishable from granting the creature the ability instead, but it sometimes matters. For Everflame Eidolon and Erebos's Emissary, the activated ability is an ability of the aura, not the creature, which means it can't be countered by Brown Ouphe if the aura is on an artifact creature. For Heliod's Emissary, that means the ability can tap down Commander Eesha. No real Bestow card grants abilities to the enchanted creature other than keyword abilities, but the round rules make it clear that these super-auras grant the creature all their abilities.
I thought Personman's answer cleared that up.
Week 4 of ABT#16 Next Round : Week 1 of ABT#17 Information
1424 | 400 344 336 344 feyd_ruin
1269 | 278 389 291 311 whammwhamme
1122 | 200 311 400 211 tomsloger
1028 | 156 389 127 356 reyemile
0945 | 289 000 345 311 yarn
0902 | 000 333 436 133 benbuzz790
0775 | 178 233 364 000 aurorasparrow
0712 | 000 100 345 267 personman
0507 | 022 056 118 311 draco9
0394 | 200 000 127 067 bateleur
0256 | 000 256 000 000 knobbodi
0082 | 000 000 082 000 springonion
vs.
1 - tomsloger: On the draw, I can Spiketail a turn two tender, or get my beat on with an Aura Apprentice ready to counter stuff. I win the race if he slowrolls. 6-0
2 - psly4mne: On the play, I can Spike/Apprentice to counter the Aura Fracture. This means I can instead counter Beacon. 1-4
3 - aurorasparrow: I can chump Thrun forever. 2-2
4 - Feyd_Ruin: On the play, Spike shuts down Azusa. On the draw, can't stop the flashback. 3-3
5 - draco9: Drake can block Nexus, who needs Auras, recursion wins 6-0.
7 - bateleur: I got nothin'. 0-6
8 - reyemile: I can always counter Braids, 2/2 races. 6-0
9 - yarn: EOT Esper Charm allows him to force through Scavenger. 0-6
Ancient Tomb / Aura Fracture / Beacon of Destruction
vs
1tomsloger : instant army
bloom tender / bloom tender / patrol signaller
I kill stuff.
6-0
3aurorasparrow : path to ascetisism
Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
I race him.
6-0
4Feyd_Ruin : ramp hard
Ancient Tomb / Army of the Damned / Azusa, Lost but Seeking
I lose to turn 4 Army.
0-6
5draco9 : savage harpist
Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
I kill Harpist before he untaps with it.
6-0
6WhammeWhamme : the kitchen sink
Spiketail Hatchling / Daring Apprentice / Volrath's Stronghold
On the draw, Hatchling counters Fracture and Apprentice counters Beacon. But if he ever attacks, I can resolve one of my spells.
4-1
7bateleur[b] : The Biggest Enchantment of All
Black Lotus / Eureka / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Emrakul is the reason I played Fracture.
6-0
8[b]reyemile : bogle, cabal minion
Exploration / Slippery Bogle / Braids, Cabal Minion
If he puts Braids on Bogle, I can kill the Braids. If he tries to put Bogle on Braids, I can kill Braids in response.
6-0
9yarn : benbuzz would be proud
anurid scavenger / esper charm / qasali pridemage
On the draw: Charm is faster than Beacon, so I have to discard Fracture and Tomb. If he never plays Scavenger, I outrace him. When he does play Scavenger, I kill it then kill the Pridemage, but he sacrifices the Pridemage targeting itself to fizzle Beacon.
On the play, I drop Tomb and outrace him.
4-1
2 | 6 x 6 0 6 4 6 6 4 | 38
Results for:
9yarn : benbuzz would be proud
Anurid Scavenger / Esper Charm / Qasali Pridemage
Bloom Tender / Bloom Tender / Patrol Signaler
3-3 Pretty sweet t3 combo. I can break Signaler twice on the play but nonce on the draw.
2psly4mne : fractured fairytales
Ancient Tomb / Aura Fracture / Beacon of Destruction
3-3 Charm beats Beacon on the play but not on the draw. QPM trades with Aura Fracture.
3aurorasparrow : path to ascetisism
Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
2-2 Charm always hits double path, Thrun walls.
4Feyd_Ruin : ramp hard
Ancient Tomb / Army of the Damned / Azusa, Lost but Seeking
0-6 T3 Army is hard to beat especially with the redundancy. I can't win on the draw since QPM is too slow. On the play then:
f1 land, Tomb, Azusa, double land (5 mana) 18-20
y2 land go (building up to Esper charm) 18-20
f2 double land (7 mana) swing 18-19
y3 Charm you 18-19
f3 double land (9 mana) swing 18-18
y4 Scavenger 18-18
f4 double land (11 mana) Flashback Army 18-18
y5 draw Charm, QPM 18-18
f5 alpha strike for 27. I block two zombies and break one with QPM, nope. 18-0
5draco9 : savage harpist
Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
6-0 Let's see. On the draw:
y1 land go
d2 assuming you bestow Force, swing for 9 to 20-11
y2 QPM 20-11 clearly you can't deal the 20 normal damage if I block, so going back.
d2 animate, swing 20-19(1)
y2 land go 20-19(1)
d3 animate, swing 20-18(2)
y3 Charm you to discard Force. From here I can use QPM or Charm with recursion to clear your board in time.
6WhammeWhamme : the kitchen sink
Spiketail Hatchling / Daring Apprentice / Volrath's Stronghold
6-0 Yep, Charm lets me resolve Scavenger and I can stop you from chumping.
7bateleur : The Biggest Enchantment of All
Black Lotus / Eureka / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
6-0 QPM deals with Emmy Eureka or not, and Scavenger recurs it.
8reyemile : bogle, cabal minion
Exploration / Slippery Bogle / Braids, Cabal Minion
3-3 Neat t2 lock! I get locked out on the draw. On the play QPM breaks Braids if you bestow, or I Charm her if you wait for t3.
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 |
9 | 3 2 0 6 6 6 6 3 X | 30
==
Also for 1-6 Whamme-Tom, I believe Tom can t3 Signaler (on the play) to avoid counters, then t5 double bestow and go off.
7 | 0 6 6 6 6 6 X 6 0 | 36
7 bateleur : The Biggest Enchantment of All
Black Lotus / Eureka / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
vs
1 tomsloger : instant army
bloom tender / bloom tender / patrol signaler
0-6 If I cast Eureka he drops everything except Signaler and then goes off on his turn. I get to attack if I want to, but he has a million little dudes to sac.
2 psly4mne : fractured fairytales
Ancient Tomb / Aura Fracture / Beacon of Destruction
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
3 aurorasparrow : path to ascetisism
Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
4 Feyd_Ruin : ramp hard
Ancient Tomb / Army of the Damned / Azusa, Lost but Seeking
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
5 draco9 : savage harpist
Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
6 WhammeWhamme : the kitchen sink
Spiketail Hatchling / Daring Apprentice / Volrath's Stronghold
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
8 reyemile : bogle, cabal minion
Exploration / Slippery Bogle / Braids, Cabal Minion
6-0 Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
9 yarn : benbuzz would be proud
anurid scavenger / esper charm / qasali pridemage
0-6 Pridemage kills Emrakul, then Esper Charm causes me to discard Eureka before I've redrawn Emrakul. I can hardcast Emrakul on my turn 12, but Pridemage and Scavenger kill me long before then, with the Scavenger kept in play by recycling Esper Charm.
Maybe we should ban the Eldrazi?
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
WW vs Draco9: WW can block forever, but he can never attack profitably into Inkwell+Harpist, as trading 1 damage for 1 poison is no good. Should be 2-2.
WW vs bateleur: On the play, WW can counter Eureka then win before hardcast Emrakul comes down. Should be 3-3
yarn vs psly4mne: On the draw, I can discard Tomb+Fracture to the Charm and try to race with Beacon, so he has to speed up his clock with Anurid. When I Beacon his creatures, he loses both to fizzle the Beacon. Should be 4-1 for me.
yarn's chart line is all weird, but the results in his spoiler block are otherwise right.
bateleur vs psly4mne: Aura Fracture kills Emrakul every time. Should be 6-0 for me.
bateleur vs Feyd: If Feyd is on the play, he plays turn 1 Tomb, Azusa, 3 lands. Bateleur plays Eureka. Feyd plays 3 lands and Army. Bateleur can annihilate lands, but Zombies swing back and win. Should be 3-3.
Maybe Eldrazi are okay to stay.
Also, Emrakul is an enchantment, so Aura Fracture kills it--you are 0-6 vs. Psylymme.
Oh, and Feyd kills you on the play. Azusa lets him cast Army on turn 2. He sacrifices lands to Annihilator, and swings back for lethal at one life (after two Ancient Tomb activations.
And WhammeWhamme beats you on the play too. Once again. Aura's keep their abilities, so Whamme can swing with the drake while keeping his Daring Apprentice aura untapped to counter Eureka (turn 1 Eureka just gets countered by drake)
None of the WotC bestows do this, do I don't see where you get that from.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
From the round rules?
"The bestow Aura grants all of its abilities to enchanted creature and also gives it +X/+Y, where X is the bestow Aura's printed power and Y is the printed toughness."
One of the decks I was considering would have 6-0'd the field. Oh well, hopefully that was good enough.
I have different results from a couple above.
WhammWhamme - You were right. I changed it.
bateleur - Annihilator 6 isn't enough to do it on my play (I have 7 lands, a creature, and 13 tokens that kill you).
1 bloom tender / bloom tender / patrol signaler
Infinite 1/1s beat me thirteen 2/2s. 0-6As pointed out by psly4mne, I make tokens on my 2nd, you put out dude, I swing before you go infinite.
On draw, you go infinite before my army can swing.
3-3
2 Ancient Tomb / Aura Fracture / Beacon of Destruction
Aura fracture kills Azusa after I play extra lands (priority).
This lets me win in just enough time.
1. Ancient Tomb, Forest, Azusa, Swamp, Swamp. Fracture->Azusa [Sac Plains] (18/18)
2. Mountain(3)
2. Swamp(6)
3. Mountain(4)
3. Swamp(7)
4. Mountain(5) -> Beacon (16,13)
4. Swamp(8) -> Army (16,11)
5. Mountain(6)
At this point, he has to kill me or kill 5 tokens.
He can burn 1, and sac lands for 4 others.
It'd then be 3 turns before he could burn again, so death.
He could burn 1 and sac all lands to kill 7 of 13.
But again, he can't recover.
Burning me to 6 doesn't do anything.
3 Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
Again, priority lets asuza play lands before Path.
My tokens hit turn 4, as does thrun.
Count in flashback, and it's an overrun.
6-0
4 Ancient Tomb / Army of the Damned / Azusa, Lost but Seeking
x
5 Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
Harpist hits auras, which I use none of.He flys over for a 3rd turn win. I army a 3rd. Split.
It's a 4th turn kill. I kill on 3rd. No other real interaction.
6-0
6 Spiketail Hatchling / Daring Apprentice / Volrath's Stronghold
If he ever swings with apprentice, I can drop azusa and cast+flashback army.So he swings with hatchling alone.
Thus, he wins on his 21st turn.
On turn 17 (19 mana) I cast (counter) and flashback Army. I'm at 2.
He can swing me to 1, but then the army overtakes.
Pointed out below.
He enchants his Hatchtail with Apprentice.
This means he swings for 2 and wins handily on his play.
3-3
7 Black Lotus / Eureka / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
On my play, I have 7 lands, Asuza, and 13 tokens when he swings.
Sac all but 1 land, return a swing for the win.
On my draw, I have 4 lands and azusa. Board wipe. Loss
3-3
8 Exploration / Slippery Bogle / Braids, Cabal Minion
Azusa overcomes braids.
6-0
9 anurid scavenger / esper charm / qasali pridemage
I cast out on 2nd, so Charm/Pridemage won't touch me before then.
He can kill 1 token, dies to other 12.
6-0
With corrections:
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
4 | 3 6 6 X 6 3 3 6 6 | 36 | 450
________
Eldrazi:
As far as Eldrazi, I'd rather ban the enablers that cheat him in.
I get that it's the annihilator that wrecks so much havoc, but there's others.
Would cheating in Progenitus, Iona, Bolas PW, or Worldspine Worm be that much less powerful?
I think it's Eureka that's the occasional problem (see Show and Tell's ban)
(Shelldock Isle is also suspect) (Sneak Attack doesn't seem as strong)
________
Round:
2 Cards from Rav Block / M14 /Theros Block (including Born of the Gods) + 1 Infinite Born of the Gods card, right?
No longer staff here.
vs Draco9: Hold back Spiketail, swing with Apprentice.
vs. tom (as pointed out by yarn): I have a hard counter from my aura on turn two, as the Aura-prentice can tap-sac the turn it comes into play. So I just leave the Aura-prentice up to stop the combo and start swinging.
...I just realize I forgot that the enchanted Hatchling also has tap-sac-counter, not sure if this affects any matches.
vs tomsloger: He doesn't make tokens until turn 3, so on the play you can kill him first. 3-3
vs Draco9: Unless I'm missing something, he can't win until turn 4 (1 mana to animate, 3 mana to enchant in the same turn), so you 6-0
vs WhammWhamme: Daring Apprentice enchants Spiketail, so he can keep one counter up while swinging for 2. If you're on the play, he can't counter on turn 2 and turn 3, but he races you on the play. 3-3.
I'm almost done calculating the rest of the results, since this is a pretty easy week. I'll post them some time today.
As far as Eldrazi go, I think this round demonstrated that there are plenty of answers to them. It's worth keeping an eye on the enablers, but they are going to lose to any deck that can answer the creature or the enabler. I would not be sad to see the Eldrazi (or more enablers) go, but I don't think it's needed.
I just realized that Nexus Savagery is a 4th turn win, not 3rd.
1. Nexus, Plains, Harpist
2. Forest, Animate, Swing 1 Poison
3. Forest. He can't animate and enchant. Not enough mana (3+nexus). 2 Poison
4. Animate, Enchant, Swing +9 = 11 Poison
Alternatively:
1. Hapist
2. Enchant Harpist with Savagery. Swing 9.
3. Swing 9=18
4. Swing9=27
So I should actually 6-0 this, since I win 3rd.
Ahh. And you can still sac Apprentice. Or sac hatchling, get full blooded apprentice back, counter.
3-3 it is then.
tomsolger: Ohoh. So I do.
The other two I picked up right as you did. Thank you though. I was off on my maths a bit.
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
4 | 3 6 6 X 6 3 3 6 6 | 36 | 450
Thanks for the corrections.
No longer staff here.
I was under the misunderstanding that 3-3s counted as 3 towards POTM points. That means I miscalculated the last round's POTM points, and I'm pretty sure tomsloger copied my numbers. I will fix that.
Yeah, they count as 2.
It may have been miscalc'd on a couple of lines then :/
On your draw, I think you might lose.
If he charm's 3rd, you ditch two, keep beacon.
He then drops scavenger on his 4th.
On his 5th, he returns charm, while you're still at 4 mana, so he charm's again.
If you keep/cast Fracture, he Charms hand before you cast, Qasali's Fracture, then Anurid Beats.
Should be 3-3 ?
No longer staff here.
I agree with WW that he should 6-0 it.
He swings with an apprentice (no aura) after everything settles down and he has mana.
Draco9 can make a 10/2 trampler with infect. This still gets blocked by a 1/1. 9 poison.
Harpist stays on field as a 1/1, savagery dies as being a 0 power creature. Tricks are over.
Top deck Hatchling, draw it, recast it.
If he swings with Inkmoth, its a trade.
The 1/1 apprentice keeps the +8/+0 from happening before he can recover Hatchling and recast to block.
After about 5th turn, his apprentice is a 1/1 beating stick that wins it.
Adding in lines as I can:
8: Exploration / Slippery Bogle / Braids, Cabal Minion
2: Fracture kills braids, even IRSP to bogle. 0-6
3: Enchanting Bogle with Braids keeps Path away. Land denial. 6-0
4: too fast. 0-6
5: Harpist hits either aura. Blocks braids once. 10 swings to 11. 0-6
6: Braids is countered. Recur, outrace/block Bogle. 0-6
7: Emrakul swings fast. Lands pay braids. 0-6
8: X
9: Pridemage hits braids on play, never sees 2 mana on draw. 3-3
5: Devout Harpist / Force of Savagery / Inkmoth Nexus
2: Fracture hits Inkmoth. 0-6
3: Path hits nexus and Harpist. 0-6
4: 3rd turn vs 4th turn wins. 0-6
5: x
6: Above. Recur blocker, swing with 2/2. 0-6
7: Can't pay annihilator. 0-6
8: barely pay braids, Harpist away aura, block once, swing with 2 life left 6-0
9: Pridemage hits nexus 0-6
3: Path to Exile / Path to Exile / Thrun, the Last Troll
2: Beacon outraces 4/4. 0-6
3: x
4: Kills as thrun hits. 0-6
5: Path Nexus and Harpist. 6-0
6: Exile apprentice, can't exile hatchling. Infiblock. 2-2
7: Em is path proof, thurn isn't annihilator proof. 0-6
8: Path can't hit bogggle. Denied thrun. 0-6
9: Charm gets rid of path. Infiblock either direction. 2-2
1: bloom tender / bloom tender / patrol signaller
2: Fractured. 0-6
3: Pathed twice. Signaler is one of them. 0-6
4: Infinite blockers, or not. 3-3
5: Harpist can't stop it. 6-0
6: Hatchling counters, Daring counters. Recur wins. 0-6
7: Let him eureka, tap 1 guy to pay Bestow. Go infinite. 6-0
8: 2 mana on play, 1 on draw. 3-3
9: Pridemage stops on draw, can't on play. 3-3
No longer staff here.
I filled out the table in a spreadsheet - link
Feyd and I have a bunch of disagreements about other lines. I've looked at them more carefully, and I think my sheet is right now.
1 | X 0 0 3 6 0 6 3 3 | 18 | 225
2 | 6 x 6 0 6 4 6 6 3 | 36 | 450
3 | 6 0 X 0 6 2 0 0 2 | 16 | 200
4 | 3 6 6 X 6 3 3 6 6 | 36 | 450
5 | 0 0 0 0 X 0 0 6 0 | 06 | 075
6 | 6 1 2 3 6 X 3 6 0 | 25 | 313
7 | 0 0 6 3 6 3 X 3 0 | 18 | 225
8 | 3 0 6 0 0 0 0 X 3 | 12 | 150
9 | 3 3 2 0 6 6 6 3 X | 26 | 325
1v3: You're right. He can let a tender sit. If he goes to bestow, path IRSP, then path Signaler that came in as creature.
5v8: Typo. Should be 6-0 for 5
(and I didn't finish editing bat's line. I was doing everyone else's and seeing how it compared).
So we just disagreed on one
One last correction.
WhammeWhamme v Me is back to 3-3 (i had edited it 4-1 in his favor).
I cast on 2nd, he hatchling counters it.
I can still flashback on 3rd before Apprentice isn't summon sick.
...Shoulda just listened from the start. Sorry WhammWhamme. You da man.
psly4mne and I should tie for the week.
psly4mne should win ABT#16
No longer staff here.
Agh. The reason I disagreed on 5v6 was that I thought Inkmoth Nexus had Blinkmoth's self-pump ability to block as a 2/2. All clear now.
Vs. 5, I play turn 2 braids, turn 3 enchant with Bogle, which still has hexproof, so Harpist can't hit it. 5 chumps when I swing on turn 3, then dies 7 swings later on turn 10, two turns before I get poisoned out.
Vs. 7, Braids keeps its ability as an aura, so Bogle plus Braids force two sacrifices. Turn 1 Emrakul leaves only one land in play, so Emrakul gets killed. There's no way for 7 to get a second land in play to protect emrakul.
congrats to psly4mne on the tournament win!
and to psly4mne and Feyd_Ruin on the week win!
edit: my deck code for next round
Acted Whomever Wining Gilts Mute
Right, but "bestow" means a creature which when cast as an aura gives the abilities it would have had as a creature to whatever it enchants. It does not, in the case of any real card, also keep them.
But yes, I'm aware it's ambiguous as worded which is why I asked for clarification in the 16.3 thread.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
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<Limited Clan>
Every real Bestow card keeps its own abilities when it is an Aura. For example, Herald of Torment still causes life loss when it's an aura. In most cases, this is either irrelevant or indistinguishable from granting the creature the ability instead, but it sometimes matters. For Everflame Eidolon and Erebos's Emissary, the activated ability is an ability of the aura, not the creature, which means it can't be countered by Brown Ouphe if the aura is on an artifact creature. For Heliod's Emissary, that means the ability can tap down Commander Eesha. No real Bestow card grants abilities to the enchanted creature other than keyword abilities, but the round rules make it clear that these super-auras grant the creature all their abilities.
I thought Personman's answer cleared that up.