Free to cast instant/sorcery spells sounds extremely dangerous, but I can't think of any immediately overpowered strategy.
You could separate formats into the ones with misgivings (such as No Holds Barred and Swap) and the ones without (such as Gentleman's Boxing Rules and Pauper).
And of course, people can modify their contested formats to try and get them in the better category.
For example,
Swap
3 Cards
Basic Land Rule
At the beginning of each game, before Leyline/Chancellor/Gemstone Caverns triggers, the first player gets a copy of a card in the second player's hand.
Then the second player gets a copy of a card in the first player's hand.
Trying to figure out the best way to organize all these new format ideas. Should I just pile up all the ideas, finished or not, into one post? Do some sort of vote? I don't want to leave anyone hanging.
I don't think voting is a good idea, because mods can do what they like anyway. The purpose of a list post like that is just to make it easier to make use of what will probably end up as a long thread.
I think people are also reluctant to share what should be banned for a particular format, because that might be their trump card if the week does come up.
We'll see. Certainly I'm happy to propose bans, because unlike some people in the 16.1 thread I don't see ban candidates and good cards as the same thing for the most part. But right now not many of these formats need bans and the ones that do haven't reached a final form yet.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Changelog
Click here for list. Will eventually incorporate everyone's suggestions onto the list if the exact same version isn't already in the Repository.
Activated Critters: Added Azorius Guildmage to the ban list.
Bestow: Cleaned wording.
Big Spender (LR): Added the following to stop 5th turn discard: 'A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game or force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's 5th turn.'
I don't see how that wording of Hive Body is superior at all. It adds weird interactions with text-altering effects that shouldn't really be there. Better to let the round-rule emblem handle the whole process, imo.
Also, I think it would be best to have a google doc we can all edit, rather than a forum post one person controls. It's not that I doubt your integrity or good intentions, but sometimes people go afk for a while, or sometimes there's a small change someone wants to make without having to bother you.
So, I made one! It is currently set to "anyone with the link can edit", which hopefully won't become an issue. If it does, it's no big deal, version history is saved, and I can change it to invite-only and invite everyone who asks.
I don't see how that wording of Hive Body is superior at all. It adds weird interactions with text-altering effects that shouldn't really be there. Better to let the round-rule emblem handle the whole process, imo.
Oh, you mean with stuff like Humility? Didn't realize that. Thanks for catching it! And thank you for making the Google document.
I've noticed that one of the flaws with the old version of Big Spender is that you can simply pack a discard spell that is within the minimum allowable CMC limit. If the big spender number is say 6 for example, the player on the play (with 6 lands) can cast Amnesia before the player on the draw can do anything to counter it (with 5 lands during his/her opponent's turn). I guess one solution is to give the player on the draw a free land.
I also see that you added the Gold Token format. Going to add what the gold token actually does.
Noncreature permanent cards have morph. Its morph cost is equal to its mana cost. (Mana cost includes color.)
Noncreature permanent cards can only be cast face-down.
Creature, instant, sorcery, and nonbasic land cards are banned.
Cost Swap
Swap the mana cost and the activation cost of a nonland permanent card's first activated ability. The card must have at least one activated ability in order to be swapped.
For example: Skeletal Kathari's mana cost is now ":symb:, Sacrifice a creature." and its activated ability is ":4mana::symb:: Regenerate Skeletal Kathari".
Note: If the card has an activated ability with or :symq:, or requires the card to sacrifice/exile itself, you can't cast the card.
Strobe Light (3CB)
Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell, that player exiles that spell with two time counters on it after it resolves. If it doesn’t have suspend, it gains suspend.
Undead Infestation (LR)
Whenever a nontoken creature dies, its controller puts a token that's a copy of that permanent onto the battlefield.
Here's an idea i threw out a while ago, but it seemed like it had some support.
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add any amount of mana to your mana pool. You may only cast one spell each turn." X-Spells and 'extra turn' cards are banned, as are activated abilities that require only mana and/or life to activate (no goblin cannon).
You can do this with any number of cards, but I suggest 5.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
A not-fully-formed idea: 5CB. No three cards may share a card type. No three cards may share a color. No three cards may share a CMC. No three cards may share a number of words in the title. Cards with multiple English printings must be submitted with a specified printing. No three cards may share an artist. No three cards may have been printed in the same year or be from the same block. No three cards may have an activated ability. No three cards may have a triggered ability. No three cards may have a keyword ability. No three cards may have a static ability. No three cards may be targeted.
Here's an idea i threw out a while ago, but it seemed like it had some support.
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add any amount of mana to your mana pool. You may only cast one spell each turn." X-Spells and 'extra turn' cards are banned, as are activated abilities that require only mana and/or life to activate (no goblin cannon).
You can do this with any number of cards, but I suggest 5.
There is something similar to this that has been done before. I don't see why you can't just add a set amount of mana (20 of any combination of colors?) to your mana pool so that you can keep X spells and Goblin Cannon type cards.
Quote from Personman »
A not-fully-formed idea: 5CB. No three cards may share a card type. No three cards may share a color. No three cards may share a CMC. No three cards may share a number of words in the title. Cards with multiple English printings must be submitted with a specified printing. No three cards may share an artist. No three cards may have been printed in the same year or be from the same block. No three cards may have an activated ability. No three cards may have a triggered ability. No three cards may have a keyword ability. No three cards may have a static ability. No three cards may be targeted.
I like this, but that's a lot of stuff to sift through. How about...
"Each card submitted can't share an artist, ability word, expansion symbol, keyword action, keyword ability, or mana symbol with three or more other cards. Ignore reminder text and flavor text. Each card submitted must specify a printing from a specific set."
How about "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you may cast a spell in your hand without paying it's mana cost." Then you don't need to worry about mana at all.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
[quote from="benbuzz790"]
I like this, but that's a lot of stuff to sift through. How about...
"Each card submitted can't share an artist, ability word, expansion symbol, keyword action, keyword ability, or mana symbol with three or more other cards. Ignore reminder text and flavor text. Each card submitted must specify a printing from a specific set."
This is a good reformulation, but I don't really understand your choices about which characteristics to include. I like "mana symbol" instead of color, but I still think CMC should be included, and I think card type is pretty important. Also, I think you mean "two or more other cards"; with three allowed to overlap, it seems like most decks would qualify already.
I'm not sure the "no sharing" format is restrictive enough. When I think offhand about the classic decks, very few of them seem to be bothered by the restriction.
Attributes I would propose for no sharing:
number of words in title
CMC
color
card type
Even then, there are plenty of decks which aren't bothered by these rules.
I'm not sure the "no sharing" format is restrictive enough. When I think offhand about the classic decks, very few of them seem to be bothered by the restriction.
The current proposal for 'Diversity'
Diversity (5CB)
Each card submitted can't share an artist, ability word, card type, converted mana cost, expansion symbol, keyword action, keyword ability, or mana symbol with two or more other cards. Ignore reminder text and flavor text. Each card submitted must specify a printing from a specific set.
Note that keyword action also includes 'tap'. Mana symbols include those in the cost of the actual card or one of its abilities. Only thing not added is the 'number of words in title'. I'm thinking to also alter the wording so that even if three or more instances of a quality shows up on the same card, the entire deck becomes illegal. Like:
Diversity (5CB)
Among the cards submitted, a deck can't have three or more instances of the same characteristic: Artist, ability word (i.e. Inspire), card type, converted mana cost, expansion symbol, keyword action (i.e. Destroy), keyword ability (i.e. Flying), other symbols (i.e. 3, T, B). Ignore reminder text and flavor text. Each card submitted must specify a printing from a specific set.
im doing a themed month for the next ABT. and assuming we like it, maybe do some more.
basically a month with one aspect that goes through all 4 weeks in the tournament. preferably with a catchy name like "legend month"[hint hint]
example:
5CB month could have 5CB, 5CB modern, 5CB land rule, 5CB backbuild
mana month could have various off the wall ways of making mana
i'd love to hear your suggestions for themed months and perhaps a format idea that would go in that theme well.
I like the arching idea of Idea month, but I think it'd work best over various XCBs (2CB LR, 4CB, etc).
I mean, even the exact same special rules can have drastically different impacts in different XCBs.
"Mana Month" could be very interesting.
Mana Market
Astroturf
Mana Nazi (ohoh It can work in a land round!)
Mana Flare -> Perhaps a Mana Reflection type instead? Or a "Double All" (SSG workable)
I liked the round we did where it was Land Rule, but you choose a single land card that you play instead of basics.
Combine one with Manaverve?
We had an format where "whenever a player spends mana, add that mana back to their pool" (roughly) was used.
It was broken. Like, infinite mana in 1 card broken. I think if I attempted it again, I'd go:
"Whenever a player casts a spell, that player adds that spells mana cost to his or her mana pool (mana cost includes color)."
Which is more in line with what I wanted.
Expanding on the mana month idea, I'd like to see special formats that encourage people to play with more expensive/less seen cards in Card Blind. From the list that we have, four of the following?:
Big Spender X (LR)
Cards with CMC < X are banned. Mindstab is banned.
Card Tax X (LR)
Each spell that would cost less than X mana to cast cost X mana to cast.
A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game or force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's Xth turn. Gaddock Teeg is banned if X >= 4.
Deep Discount
Colored spells cost 10 less to cast. Painter's Servant is banned.
Dream Resonance
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "Exile a card from your hand: Add mana equal to that card's mana cost (including color) to your mana pool."
Morphin' Time (2CB LR)
Entrants may only submit artifact or enchantment cards.
Artifact and enchantment cards have morph. Their morph costs are equal to their mana cost. (Mana cost includes color.)
Artifact and enchantment cards can only be cast face-down.
Power Plays (LR)
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "The first spell you cast each turn costs X less to cast, where X is half of that spell's converted mana cost, rounded down."
Spectral Mana
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add twenty mana of any combination of colors to your mana pool.”
Spell Mastery
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you may cast a nonland card from your hand without paying its mana cost."
Mana Tax
In addition to your deck, choose a color. Your spells and activated abilities (except for mana abilities) cost 1 less of the chosen color to cast/activate. Your opponents' spells and activated abilities (except for mana abilities) cost 1 more of the chosen color to cast/activate. This effect reduces only the amount of colored mana you pay.
For example: Player A chooses and Player B chooses . Player A's spells and activated abilities cost less and more. Player B's spells and activated abilities cost less and more.
Masochism
Emblem: Whenever you lose life, for each 1 life you lost, add one mana of any color to your mana pool. You can't add mana to your mana pool through any other method.
Note: Damage dealt to you causes you to lose life.
Exact Turn X
A player's deck must win the game against a blank deck during his or her Xth turn. No earlier, no later.
X values: 6, 11.
Devalue
Subtract 1 from all printed numerical values. This includes colorless mana symbols, written numbers in rules text, power/toughness, loyalty, etc.
Note: One, five, 1 , 5 are numerical values. 'Twice', 'X', 'first', 'third' are not.
Note: Text that uses 'a', like "Sacrifice a creature", are not affected because 'a' is not a numerical value.
Note: Text that say "Add N mana of any one color to your mana pool." No longer work because it now reads "Add N-1 mana of any zero color to your mana pool."
Banned: Commandeer
Example:
Golem Foundry
Artifact
Whenever you cast an artifact spell, you may put a charge counter on Golem Foundry.
Remove two charge counters from Golem Foundry: Put a 2/2 colorless Golem artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
i rather like masochism, but phyrexian mana seems dangerous. and im not even sure how it works. can you straight up cast spined thopter by paying 2 life and using the two mana for the colorless cost?
Masochism seems like a pretty interesting idea. but assuming we do damage only, damage prevention/redirection can effectively lock your opponent out of mana.
Reverting back to damage + life loss. To work around the Phyrexian mana issue, going to limit the interaction to permanents you control. Also decided against having your opponent give you mana by having them damage you. Calculating results can get complicated otherwise.
Masochism
Emblem: Whenever you lose life from a permanent you control, for each 1 life you lost, add one mana of any color to your mana pool. You can't add mana to your mana pool through any other method.
Note: Damage dealt to you causes you to lose life.
that sounds way less fun. i cant actually think of a permanent that can deal damage to you that doesnt cost any mana
edit: i also think phyrexian mana isnt as bad as i first thought. i mean, gut shot targeting yourself is a black lotus that cost 3 life. its powerful, sure. but probably not broken
You could separate formats into the ones with misgivings (such as No Holds Barred and Swap) and the ones without (such as Gentleman's Boxing Rules and Pauper).
And of course, people can modify their contested formats to try and get them in the better category.
For example,
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
I don't think voting is a good idea, because mods can do what they like anyway. The purpose of a list post like that is just to make it easier to make use of what will probably end up as a long thread.
We'll see. Certainly I'm happy to propose bans, because unlike some people in the 16.1 thread I don't see ban candidates and good cards as the same thing for the most part. But right now not many of these formats need bans and the ones that do haven't reached a final form yet.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Click here for list. Will eventually incorporate everyone's suggestions onto the list if the exact same version isn't already in the Repository.
Activated Critters: Added Azorius Guildmage to the ban list.
Bestow: Cleaned wording.
Big Spender (LR): Added the following to stop 5th turn discard: 'A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game or force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's 5th turn.'
Cold War: Added.
Hive Body (5CB): Cleaned wording.
Three's Company (LR): Added.
Tough (LR): Added.
Also, I think it would be best to have a google doc we can all edit, rather than a forum post one person controls. It's not that I doubt your integrity or good intentions, but sometimes people go afk for a while, or sometimes there's a small change someone wants to make without having to bother you.
So, I made one! It is currently set to "anyone with the link can edit", which hopefully won't become an issue. If it does, it's no big deal, version history is saved, and I can change it to invite-only and invite everyone who asks.
Oh, you mean with stuff like Humility? Didn't realize that. Thanks for catching it! And thank you for making the Google document.
I've noticed that one of the flaws with the old version of Big Spender is that you can simply pack a discard spell that is within the minimum allowable CMC limit. If the big spender number is say 6 for example, the player on the play (with 6 lands) can cast Amnesia before the player on the draw can do anything to counter it (with 5 lands during his/her opponent's turn). I guess one solution is to give the player on the draw a free land.
I also see that you added the Gold Token format. Going to add what the gold token actually does.
Since formats are sorted alphabetically, the File > Revision History feature is a nice way to see what's new.
Morphin' Time (2CB LR)
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add any amount of mana to your mana pool. You may only cast one spell each turn." X-Spells and 'extra turn' cards are banned, as are activated abilities that require only mana and/or life to activate (no goblin cannon).
You can do this with any number of cards, but I suggest 5.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
A not-fully-formed idea: 5CB. No three cards may share a card type. No three cards may share a color. No three cards may share a CMC. No three cards may share a number of words in the title. Cards with multiple English printings must be submitted with a specified printing. No three cards may share an artist. No three cards may have been printed in the same year or be from the same block. No three cards may have an activated ability. No three cards may have a triggered ability. No three cards may have a keyword ability. No three cards may have a static ability. No three cards may be targeted.
There is something similar to this that has been done before. I don't see why you can't just add a set amount of mana (20 of any combination of colors?) to your mana pool so that you can keep X spells and Goblin Cannon type cards.
I like this, but that's a lot of stuff to sift through. How about...
"Each card submitted can't share an artist, ability word, expansion symbol, keyword action, keyword ability, or mana symbol with three or more other cards. Ignore reminder text and flavor text. Each card submitted must specify a printing from a specific set."
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
This is a good reformulation, but I don't really understand your choices about which characteristics to include. I like "mana symbol" instead of color, but I still think CMC should be included, and I think card type is pretty important. Also, I think you mean "two or more other cards"; with three allowed to overlap, it seems like most decks would qualify already.
Added "Diversity", "Spectral Mana", and "Spell Mastery" to the database.
Attributes I would propose for no sharing:
number of words in title
CMC
color
card type
Even then, there are plenty of decks which aren't bothered by these rules.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
The current proposal for 'Diversity'
Each card submitted can't share an artist, ability word, card type, converted mana cost, expansion symbol, keyword action, keyword ability, or mana symbol with two or more other cards. Ignore reminder text and flavor text. Each card submitted must specify a printing from a specific set.
Note that keyword action also includes 'tap'. Mana symbols include those in the cost of the actual card or one of its abilities. Only thing not added is the 'number of words in title'. I'm thinking to also alter the wording so that even if three or more instances of a quality shows up on the same card, the entire deck becomes illegal. Like:
Among the cards submitted, a deck can't have three or more instances of the same characteristic: Artist, ability word (i.e. Inspire), card type, converted mana cost, expansion symbol, keyword action (i.e. Destroy), keyword ability (i.e. Flying), other symbols (i.e. 3, T, B). Ignore reminder text and flavor text. Each card submitted must specify a printing from a specific set.
basically a month with one aspect that goes through all 4 weeks in the tournament. preferably with a catchy name like "legend month"[hint hint]
example:
5CB month could have 5CB, 5CB modern, 5CB land rule, 5CB backbuild
mana month could have various off the wall ways of making mana
i'd love to hear your suggestions for themed months and perhaps a format idea that would go in that theme well.
I mean, even the exact same special rules can have drastically different impacts in different XCBs.
"Mana Month" could be very interesting.
Mana Market
Astroturf
Mana Nazi (ohoh It can work in a land round!)
Mana Flare -> Perhaps a Mana Reflection type instead? Or a "Double All" (SSG workable)
I liked the round we did where it was Land Rule, but you choose a single land card that you play instead of basics.
Combine one with Manaverve?
We had an format where "whenever a player spends mana, add that mana back to their pool" (roughly) was used.
It was broken. Like, infinite mana in 1 card broken. I think if I attempted it again, I'd go:
"Whenever a player casts a spell, that player adds that spells mana cost to his or her mana pool (mana cost includes color)."
Which is more in line with what I wanted.
Enough rambling from me for now
No longer staff here.
Big Spender X (LR)
Cards with CMC < X are banned.
Mindstab is banned.
Card Tax X (LR)
Each spell that would cost less than X mana to cast cost X mana to cast.
A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game or force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's Xth turn.
Gaddock Teeg is banned if X >= 4.
Deep Discount
Colored spells cost 10 less to cast.
Painter's Servant is banned.
Dream Resonance
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "Exile a card from your hand: Add mana equal to that card's mana cost (including color) to your mana pool."
Morphin' Time (2CB LR)
Entrants may only submit artifact or enchantment cards.
Artifact and enchantment cards have morph. Their morph costs are equal to their mana cost. (Mana cost includes color.)
Artifact and enchantment cards can only be cast face-down.
Power Plays (LR)
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "The first spell you cast each turn costs X less to cast, where X is half of that spell's converted mana cost, rounded down."
Spectral Mana
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add twenty mana of any combination of colors to your mana pool.”
Spell Mastery
Players begin the game with an emblem that reads "At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you may cast a nonland card from your hand without paying its mana cost."
Mana Tax
In addition to your deck, choose a color. Your spells and activated abilities (except for mana abilities) cost 1 less of the chosen color to cast/activate. Your opponents' spells and activated abilities (except for mana abilities) cost 1 more of the chosen color to cast/activate. This effect reduces only the amount of colored mana you pay.
For example: Player A chooses and Player B chooses . Player A's spells and activated abilities cost less and more. Player B's spells and activated abilities cost less and more.
Masochism
Emblem: Whenever you lose life, for each 1 life you lost, add one mana of any color to your mana pool. You can't add mana to your mana pool through any other method.
Note: Damage dealt to you causes you to lose life.
Exact Turn X
A player's deck must win the game against a blank deck during his or her Xth turn. No earlier, no later.
X values: 6, 11.
Devalue
Subtract 1 from all printed numerical values. This includes colorless mana symbols, written numbers in rules text, power/toughness, loyalty, etc.
Note: One, five, 1 , 5 are numerical values. 'Twice', 'X', 'first', 'third' are not.
Note: Text that uses 'a', like "Sacrifice a creature", are not affected because 'a' is not a numerical value.
Note: Text that say "Add N mana of any one color to your mana pool." No longer work because it now reads "Add N-1 mana of any zero color to your mana pool."
Banned: Commandeer
Example:
Golem Foundry
Artifact
Whenever you cast an artifact spell, you may put a charge counter on Golem Foundry.
Remove two charge counters from Golem Foundry: Put a 2/2 colorless Golem artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Masochism
Emblem: Whenever you lose life from a permanent you control, for each 1 life you lost, add one mana of any color to your mana pool. You can't add mana to your mana pool through any other method.
Note: Damage dealt to you causes you to lose life.
edit: i also think phyrexian mana isnt as bad as i first thought. i mean, gut shot targeting yourself is a black lotus that cost 3 life. its powerful, sure. but probably not broken
Well, I suppose I can just add a note saying paying life via Phyrexian mana will allow you to pay for itself.