This thread contains the results for week 4 of All Blind Tournament #13 and is the start of week 1 of ABT#14.
Week 4 of ABT#13
This round was 6CB Modern Communal Property 2.
Rules:
Only cards contained in sets legal in Modern may be submitted.
Each card in a zone other than a player's hand has all abilities of all other cards of the same card type in any zone except a player's hand, except characteristic-definining abilities. Only permanent cards may be submitted.
An entrant may not submit a deck that could enable the player of that deck to win the game or force any cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's fourth turn.
Note: The rules for this round had complexities that I didn't foresee. In lieu of re-writing them mid-round and potentially causing new problems, I've made a series of rulings, included here. I've also included answers to questions that have been asked in the thread. Most of these answers were compiled by MyNameIsFourteen. Thanks!
02 Draco9 :: "Can't Touch Dis" Darksteel Citadel / Etched Champion / Legacy Weapon / Memnite / Mox Opal / Palladium Myr Everything is indestructible, has protection from all colors, and will be shuffled into its owner's library if it would go to the graveyard. Weapon can be cast on turn two and can exile one permanent per turn starting on turn three.
04 knobbodi :: "Void Where Prohibited" Chalice of the Void / Darksteel Citadel / Eater of Days / Engineered Explosives / Engineered Explosives / Mox Opal This deck has options. Explosives can be cast for up to five counters on turn one, which also makes Chalice's ability more potent. Eater of Days is also a possible first-turn play. Eater makes any creature or artifact entering on the other side cause two turns to be skipped.
07 cruelshy :: "" Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt cruelsy casts Needle off of Citadel and is able to name three cards on immediately, ending the first turn turn with Nevermore. Heliod comes down on the second turn and gets to name a second card with Nevermore's ability. Each token produced will name a card for Nevermore and Needle, and everything is indestructible.
11 Personman :: "" Death's Shadow / Helix Pinnacle / Llanowar Wastes / Lich's Mirror / Omniscience / Possibility Storm With Pinnacle on the battlefield, Personman announces Omniscience, and it becomes free to cast, because Pinnacle has its ability. Wastes plus Mirror is a recursion engine, and Shadow is a Wrath or alternate win condition. Storm is a lock if a deck can't cast two cards of the same type before redrawing the first card.
13 DragonDart :: "" Lotus Bloom / Myr Retriever / Pithing Needle / Seat of the Synod / Shimmer Myr / Venser, Shaper Savant With Bloom in Exile, artifacts sac for {3}, and Retriever lets DD make infinite mana - at instant speed once Shimmer Myr has been cast. Venser with the Bloom sac outlet means infinite bounces at instant speed. Creatures have summoning sickness, so the loops aren't infinite.
There were 13 players with 78 matches and 156 total games.
30 hands ended in a draw. 15 matches had at least one draw.
That's 19% of all games, averaging 2.3 games per player.
The following player(s) had the most drawn games, with 7 total draws: Reyemile : Personman
22 matches were a 3-3 split.
That's 28% of all matches, averaging 1.7 matches per player.
The following player(s) had the most split matches, with 4 total splits: tomsloger
52 matches were a 6-0 sweep.
That's 67% of all matches, averaging 4 matches per player.
The following player(s) had the most 6-0 match sweeps, at 6 total sweeps: aurorasparrow : WhammWhamme
There were 56 unique cards submitted, out of 78 total.
11 card(s) were repeated:
Next Round will be '5CB Before SOK'.
Entries are due Tuesday morning at 4:00 am GMT.
5CB Before SOK
Description:
We've played fifty-two rounds of ABT – one year. To start the second year of ABT, the format I've chosen is a modified version of one of the first XCB formats ever played on MTG Salvation.
Deck size:
20
5 cards.
Land Rule:
20
None.
Special Rules:
Only cards contained in sets printed before Saviors of Kamigawa may be submitted.
Blind Magic is an online Magic format played here on the forums. Players play with an extremely limited deck size, such as 3 cards. Players begin with their entire deck (ie: those three cards) in hand and have no library (players don't lose when they fail to draw a card because of this). Due to the extremely limited number of play options given with their small deck size, games are calculated, rather then played, with an absolute determined winner (or a tie). Each player plays a match of two games against each other player who submitted - once going first, and once going second. Wins, losses, and ties for each of those two games are calculated by the moderator and players. The actual fun of the game comes from trying to decide which cards you will be playing.
What is the All Blind Tournament?
The All Blind Tournament is a four-week XCB tournament, which spans all card blind formats and embraces a progressive anti-metagame. For each week of the four-week tournament, a new XCB format is announced for players to enter. Players compete for points (similiar to the PotM points for previous XCB games) each round. At the end of the four-week tournament, the player who has accumulated the most points over the four weeks wins the tournament, and receives a real-world prize.
Basic Rules of All Blind Tournament
Below lies the rules of ABT written in laymen's terms for ease of understanding.
While a comprehensive rule system exists, new players and quick glances are best left for this basic explanation.
Overview
The All Blind Tournament (ABT) is a Magic tournament that consists of four rounds of X Card Blind (XCB), run entirely within this forum. To compete, entrants submit decks containing X cards which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
Deck Construction Rules
1. A deck must contain exactly X cards.
2. A deck may contain any number of copies of any Vintage-legal card, but can't contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
3. A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game before an opponent's second turn.
4. A player's deck must not enable that player to force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's second turn.
5. A player's deck must enable that player to win the game.
Deck Submission Rules
6. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator by private message (pm).
Playing the Decks
7. Entrants don't actually play their decks, because game results can be determined theoretically.
8. Each player starts the game with the cards in his or her deck in his or her hand.
9. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
10. A random effect resolves in favor of the opponent of the owner of that effect.
11. Players know all information that would normally be concealed from them.
12. Each player plays one two-game match against each other player, and each player is the starting player once per match.
Points
13. The entrant with the most points in a round is the round winner. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, an entrant earns only 2 points for a split match (each player wins a game).
14. The entrant with the most points in the four rounds comprising the ABT is the tournament winner.
Extra Rules
15. Some optional rules may be used; see Optional Rules.
16. The Basic Rules don't cover every issue. For in-depth rules, see Comprehensive Rules.
Optional Rules
Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
Expanded Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
Alternative Land Rule
If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land card of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
Sanctioned Magic Format
A deck may contain only cards contained in sets legal in the specified format.
Counter Rule
Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
Life Rule
If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win the game as though this rule didn't exist.
Special Format
Other rules are specified.
XCB Comprehensive Rules
Below lies the comprehensive rules system for the ABT.
Rules are written for precision and game clarification. They are not written for ease of reading.
Game Rules
1.1. There are many versions of XCB. Each version has a name, of the form XCB 'Land Rule' 'Sanctioned Magic Format' 'Special Format' '(Bonus)' 'Counter Rule' 'Life Rule'.
1.1a. X is a number.
1.1b. 'Land Rule' can be LR, ELR, ALR, or nothing. LR indicates that the basic land rule is in effect, ELR indicates that the expanded land rule is in effect, and ALR indicates that the alternative land rule is in effect (see Rule 1.7).
1.1c. 'Sanctioned Magic Format' can be the name of a sanctioned Magic constructed format or nothing. The name of a format indicates that only cards contained in sets legal in that format may be submitted. This is an exception to rule 2.3c.
1.1d. 'Special Format' can be the name of at least one special format or nothing. The name of a special format indicates that the special format in effect (see Rule 1.8).
1.1e. 'Bonus' can be (Bonus) or nothing. (Bonus) modifies the preceding special format, indicating that an entrant must not follow the rules of that format, but that entrant will earn a specified number of bonus points if he or she does (see Rule 2.4f).
1.1f. 'Counter Rule' can be C or nothing. C indicates that the counter rule is in effect (see Rule 1.9).
1.1g. 'Life Rule' can be LF, AL, or nothing. LF indicates that the life rule is in effect and AL indicates that the alternative life rule is in effect (see Rule 1.10).
1.2. Decks are not played, but are scored as though they were. The player of a deck is the entrant who submitted that deck.
1.3. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
1.3a. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
1.4. An entrant's deck contains exactly X cards (see Rule 1.1).
1.4a. A player's opening hand contains the cards in his or her deck.
1.4b. Players don't draw hands or mulligan.
1.4c. Players don't have sideboards.
1.5. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
1.5a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.6. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid the cost or the owner of the source of the effect instead.
1.7. Some versions of XCB use a land rule.
1.7a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
1.7b. This is the expanded land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
1.7c. This is the alternative land rule (ALR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
1.8. Some versions of XCB use a special format. A special format is an extra set of rules. These rules overwrite any other applicable rules. A non-comprehensive list of special formats is maintained here.
1.8a. Some special formats cause players to draw hands. The drawn cards become part of that player's opening hand.
1.8b. Some special formats generate continuous effects. Continuous effects generated by special formats are applied in the order those formats are listed in the XCB version name, before any other effects that could be applied in a layer.
1.8c. Some special formats require an entrant to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a deck. An entrant's submission is that entrant's deck and any decisions that entrant makes. An entrant's submission must not violate rule 2.3 if all instances of the word 'deck' in that rule are replaced with 'submission'.
1.8d. Some special formats refer to decks that obtain or could obtain results. Saying that a deck obtains or could obtain a result means that the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result in a game or match against another player (see Rule 1.11). If a deck obtains or could obtain a result against another deck, then the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result against the player of the other deck.
1.9. Some versions of XCB use the counter rule.
1.9a. This is the counter rule (C). Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
1.10. Some versions of XCB use a life rule.
1.10a. This is the life rule (LF). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win a match as though this rule didn't exist (see Rule 2.3b).
1.10b. This is the alternative life rule (AL). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
1.11. Each player plays one match against each other player.
1.11a. Each match has two games.
1.11b. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
1.11c. Games are played with perfect information; players know the identities of face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
1.11d. Games are played optimally. The best outcome for a player is to win the game and the worst outcome is to lose the game.
1.11e. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
Tournament Rules
2.1. Entrants compete in a competition.
2.1a. The shortest type of competition is a round. Typically, each round lasts one week.
2.1b. The ABT is a competition consisting of four rounds.
2.2. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator.
2.2a. An entrant submits his or her deck by private message (pm).
2.2b. An entrant may submit multiple decks, but only the most recently submitted deck is counted.
2.2c. An illegal deck is not counted. At the moderator’s discretion, an illegal deck may be replaced by a similar deck – in which any cards causing that deck to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
2.2d. The moderator determines the result of each match. Entrants may challenge results, but not after the results of the first round of a new ABT has been posted, except at the moderator's discretion.
2.2e. An entrant may name his or her deck. If an entrant doesn't, then the moderator may name it.
2.3. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3a. An entrant may not submit a deck that could enable the player of that deck to win the game or force any cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn. A card is forced to change zones if the owner of that card could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in either that card changing zones or that player losing the game before his or her second turn. Ignore this rule in the following cases:
i. All cards in an opponent's hand that would be forced to change zones would not be cast by that opponent and would enter the battlefield under that opponent's control. For example, a 4CB deck with two copies of Black Lotus could contain Stronghold Gambit but could not contain Wild Evocation.
ii. All cards in an opponent's hand that weren't there as a result of a cost or effect that opponent controlled that would be forced to change zones during the resolution of a spell or ability would be in that opponent's hand after that spell or ability resolved. For example, a 3CB deck could contain Timetwister and Black Lotus but an 8CB deck could not.
iii. Cards in an opponent's hand would be forced to change zones only if cards in that opponent's hand that started outside the game would cause that opponent's maximum hand size at the start of the game to be exceeded. For example, a 3CB LR deck could contain two copies of Ancestral Recall.
iv. The rule would be violated only in a game that existed as a result of an effect that resolved not before the specified turn or until each player had completed the specified number of turns that restarted the game or created a subgame. For example, a 2CB LR deck could contain Karn Liberated.
2.3b. An entrant may not submit a deck that wouldn't enable the player of that deck to win a match (see Rule 2.4d) against the player of at least one deck satisfying all rules.
2.3c. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1). Except as modified by a special format, all cards used in a game must be legal in Vintage.
2.3d. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card that will become legal in Vintage upon release of a set that's been revealed fully and officially since the start of the round.
2.3e. A deck may not contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
2.4. Points determine round standings.
2.4a. Entrants are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game.
2.4c. The combined result of both games in a match is called a match result. Possible match results are: 6 – two wins, 4 – a win and a draw, 3 or 2 or S – a win and a loss, 2 – two draws, 1 – a draw and a loss, and 0 – two losses.
2.4d. Some match results are also denoted by names: two wins – match win, a win and a loss – split match, two draws – draw, and two losses – match loss. An entrant wins the match if he or she wins both games, splits the match if he or she wins a game and loses a game, draws a match if he or she draws both games, and loses the match if he or she loses both games.
2.4e. An entrant earns only 2 points for a split match. This is an exception to rule 2.4b.
2.4f. An entrant may earn a number of bonus points defined by a special format. An entrant earns these points in addition to any other points.
2.4g. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Its rows represent entrants and its columns represent those entrants' opponents. An entrant's total number of points is listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. The entrant with the most tournament points over the course of the ABT is the tournament winner.
2.5a. Each round, an entrant receives tournament points equal to his or her average match result for that round multiplied by 100, rounded to the nearest integer or some number of decimal places chosen at the moderator's discretion. For example, an entrant scoring 6-6-6-6-X-0-0-0 in a round with 8 entrants receives 340 tournament points ((6 + 6 + 6 + 6) / (8 - 1) x 100).
2.5b. If two or more entrants would win the ABT, then each of those entrants competes in additional rounds specified by the moderator, until only one entrant has the most tournament points. Each additional round contains only the entrants who have the most tournament points. The moderator may specify a limit to the number of additional rounds.
3. Prize Rules
3.1. A prize shall be given to the tournament winner.
3.1a. The winner of the tournament shall be given the prize described within the tournament, or a suitable replacement upon the tournament's end.
3.1b. If the winner of the tournament has won two or more tournaments, then the highest ranked entrant who hasn't won two or more tournaments shall be given the prize instead.
3.1c. If the winner was a moderator for two or more rounds of the tournament, then the highest ranked entrant who wasn't the moderator for two or more rounds of that tournament shall be given the prize instead. This is to ensure fair play.
3.1d. An entrant may decline the prize. If he or she does, then that entrant may designate another entrant to receive the prize.
3.1e. Entrants under the age of 18 are ineligible for prizes, due to federal laws regarding the sharing of personal information of minors.
3.1f. In the event that a prize can't be given to an entrant, the moderator will do his best to find another suitable way to reward that entrant.
3.1g. No prize is 100% guaranteed, but is assumed upon a good faith basis. Let's face it, with international customs, weird laws, etc, we can't guarantee anything. We'll do our best.
3.2. As a prized tournament, special scoring rules and practices are in place.
3.2a. Entrants are responsible for their own scoring. Assistance will be given, especially to new entrants, but it is ultimately up to each entrant to ensure his or her scoring is completed and accurate.
3.2b. Incomplete scores are considered losses, even to both players in a match if necessary. This is to make sure a winner is determined at the end of a tournament.
3.2c. The moderator always has the final word regarding scores and rules. Entrants may question any scoring the moderator does, until the moderator says that a match's scoring is final.
3.2d. The moderator may, at his or her discretion, determine a match is too difficult to calculate and give it a tie score, or his or her best guess. Again, this is final.
3.2e. Once a winner has been announced as final, that entrant shall receive the prize, even if errors in scoring or points are shown later.
Permanently Banned Cards
The following cards are permanently banned in the All Blind Tournament.
Each round will have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
The prize is to be determined. The steam gift card for the last tournament will go out once final standings have been calculated.
-
Player Standings
Previous standings will always be posted below the opening post of each week's thread.
Standings will be updated after the current week has been completed and score checking has finished.
The round was overly complex, but I'm happy to have run it, because the decks are great. There are a lot of really interesting combos, and definitely a lot that I hadn't thought of. One point to remember when scoring is that abilities are shared by opponent's cards, too – five decks took advantage of this fact to some extent, and the rest will just have to be careful with their locks. In lieu of deck comments this round, I've provided brief descriptions of the capabilities of each deck.
This week's format hearkens back to simpler times, but the different ban list and deckbuilding restrictions (win/discard before) compared with the format's original outing, will probably cause some new strategies to emerge.
Regarding the infinite sequences discussion that has occupied a few threads and is currently being discussed in its own thread: for this round, infinite sequences will be handled per Personman's rather thorough post in that thread. Also, I've added a poll. The impression I get is that most everyone wants to allow draws via infinite turns. I happen to feel differently, so before finalizing the rules, I just want to confirm that infinite turns being a draw actually does represent the majority interest.
An effect can't cause an opponent of the controller of that effect to discard a card or counter or exile a spell that opponent controls.
That was a rule for the fading round. That wasn't this round.
On another note, it was brought to my attention that bateleur can't actually cast both Painter's Servant and Zombie Infestation. I failed to notice this, and remember that tokens won't get creatures' abilities. If anyone has ideas regarding suitable replacements to the deck, please post them.
as far as bateluer, Chrome Mox instead of Spirit Guide seems reasonable.
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
05 vs 01: Synod Centurion kills all his stuff. 6-0
05 vs 02: Same. 6-0
05 vs 03:
I go first (A):
Him: Leyline.
Me: City of Brass, Spirit Guide, Prowler.
Him (19): Caverns, Mox imprinting Infestation, make Zombie.
Me (19): Attack for 3, outracing him.
I go first (B):
Him: Caverns exiling Skaab.
Me: City of Brass, Spirit Guide, Curse.
Him (19): Mox exiling Leyline, Infestation, loss. (not enough cards for Infestation.)
I go first (C):
Him: Leyline, Caverns exiling Skaab.
Me: City of Brass, go.
Him: Chrome Mox exiling Infestation, draw. (Not enough cards to create a token)
When he goes first, Cavern/Synod shuts him down and I win with Curse. 4-1
05 vs 04: Synod gets him either way. 6-0
05 vs 06: We win other when our opponent goes first. 3-3
05 vs 07: Synod kills everything. 6-0
05 vs 08: He locks me when I go first. When he goes first, I exile Synod and neither player can win. 1-4
05 vs 09:
I go first:
Me: Brass, Spirit Guide, Prowler.
Him: Allosaurus Rider. Primus' ETB kills Brass. Put creatures from hand into play.
Me: Discard Synod in response. Everything dies, draw.
If anyone has ideas regarding suitable replacements to the deck, please post them.
I don't think you should replace anything. It's broken by design, so just casting Infestation then making two regular 2/2 Zombies with no abilities is what it does. There's no real justification for replacing any cards.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Against #1, I counter Zombie Infestation and win.
(Edited) Against #2, my opponent defeats me with Memnite, Palladium Myr, and Etched Champion.
(Edited) Against #3, if I go first, my opponent exiles Skaab Ruinator with Gemstone Caverns and neither player can do anything useful; if my opponent exiles Zombie Infestation, I get priority first and can cast Shimmer Myr. If I go second, I counter my opponent's Chrome Mox and win.
Against #4, my opponent defeats me with Eater of Days.
Against #5, if I go first, my opponent exiles Synod Centurion with Gemstone Caverns, which stops everything I have; if I go second, I counter my opponent's Curse of the Pierced Heart and block my opponent's Oona's Prowler if it attacks, leading to a draw.
Against #6, it is as described by him.
Against #7, I counter Pithing Needle and win.
Against #8, if I go first, my opponent returns my Shimmer Myr to my hand and defeats me with Venser, Shaper Savant; if I go second, I counter my opponent's Chrome Mox and win.
Against #9, my opponent defeats me with Voidstone Gargoyle.
Against #11, my opponent uses Death's Shadow to kill my Shimmer Myr and wins with Helix Pinnacle.
Against #12, if my opponent goes first, I cast Shimmer Myr during my opponent's first upkeep; my opponent must cast Æther Vial, but that allows me to use the Æther Vial's ability on Shimmer Myr to get Glen Elendra Archmage onto the battlefield, and the most my opponent can get is a 1/1 Spellstutter Sprite, a 2/2 Simian Spirit Guide, and a 2/2 Draining Whelk that countered Surge Node, and I can block all of them because the Spellstutter Sprite and the Draining Whelk cannot survive after being returned by persist; that is a draw. If I go first, if my opponent does not begin the game with Gemstone Caverns on the battlefield, I can get a draw in the same way as described above. If my opponent begins the game with Gemstone Caverns on the battlefield and exiles any card other than Surge Node, I cast Chrome Mox during my first precombat main phase; if my opponent casts Spellstutter Sprite in response, I cast Shimmer Myr and can get a draw in the same way as described above; otherwise, I do not exile any card for Chrome Mox's trigger, and my opponent has to cast either Spellstutter Sprite or Æther Vial to win, and if my opponent casts Spellstutter Sprite, I cast Shimmer Myr and can get a draw in the same way as described above, and if my opponent casts Æther Vial, my Chrome Mox gains its ability and I can put all five of my creature cards onto the battlefield, and they easily hold off my opponent's creatures. If my opponent begins the game with Gemstone Caverns on the battlefield and exiles Surge Node, I cast Chrome Mox and Shimmer Myr during my turn; if my opponent counters Chrome Mox with Spellstutter Sprite, my opponent can get no more than two 1/1 creatures, which my Shimmer Myr can hold off; if my opponent doesn't, I exile Glen Elendra Archmage, and my opponent has to cast Æther Vial to avoid being defeated by my Shimmer Myr, and when that happens, I sacrifice my Shimmer Myr to counter it, and my Shimmer Myr returns, now 1/1, and the only thing my opponent can do is to cast Spellstutter Sprite, and I can block it with my Shimmer Myr. Therefore, this is also a draw.
Against #13, my opponent defeats me with various creatures.
My PM with my deck must not have gone through. Could have sworn it did, but I don't see it in my sent messages now.
I tried to submit Leyline of the Meek / Soul Ransom / Synod Centurion / Chrome Mox / Gemstone Cavern / Chancellor of the Forge but I guess I missed it.
EDIT: I forgot that I can't activate the Ransom ability on my own Leyline, so my deck would have just drawn a lot anyway. With Erebos's Emissary in place of Ransom, I would have gone 10-0-3, drawing with WW, tomsloger, and DD, but too late
For the record, Mogg has my line of play wrong. I exile ZOMBIE INFESTATION, giving my Leyline the discard ability, then discard Ruinator and stony silence into the yard. So far, I don't think this affected anyone's scoring vs. my deck, but it's worth noting. I'll pay more attention to scoring later this evening.
Edit: I'm realizing that, vs. the Simian Spirit Guide decks, sometimes I do have to do Mogg's line of play
I can vouch for the fact that psly4mne told me on Monday that e had submitted. I obviously can't prove that that is the deck e submitted, but I can also vouch for eir general honesty and good character
On the play, chalice on 0 locks him out. On the draw, since memnite will have summoning sickness, he cannot play either of his 3s. So on my turn 1 I set chalice to 3. 6-0
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
I have no non artifact permanents, and none of them have flash, so centurion prevents me from playing spells. 0-6
06 MyNameIsFourteen :: "This Deck Is Like A Cowboy - It's Faster On The Draw"
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Grand Arbiter Augustin IV / Prognostic Sphinx / World Queller / Zealous Guardian
Augustin and world queller team up to keep me from ever reaching 3 artifacts, which I would need to explosives for 1 and end little zealous guardian's life. 0-6
07 cruelshy :: ""
Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt
Nevermore on his play, chalice set to 0 on mine. 3-3
Leyline stops chalice from being relevant, so venser bounces either explosives set to 4 or eater of days every turn and then attacks and bounces all of things. 0-6
09 Feyd_Ruin :: ""
Allosaurus Rider / Myojin of Life's Web / Phyrexian Revoker / Slithering Shade / Voidstone Gargoyle / Woodfall Primus
Turn 1 eater of days on my play, turn 1 voidstone naming explosives on his. 3-3
On the play, chalice set to 1 locks him out. On his play, if he doesn't play possibility storm, I set both explosives to 1, destroy helix pinnacle and prevent him from replaying it or playing death's shadow, then I play eater. When he plays possibility storm, he then can't play death's shadow anymore and I just play eater. 6-0
On the play, I just turn 1 eater. Spellstutter can counter one thing but that is irrelevant. On the draw, he sets up vial to use whelk. But surge node makes my artifacts have 6 charge counters unless they have an ability that sets how many they have. So I set explosives to 2 to either destroy sprite or prevent it from being cast. If I ever cast eater, it gets countered and then I blow up whelk. 4-1
On the play I set chalice to 0, 1, and 2 so he can't make infinite mana, and then eater makes short work of him. On the draw, I'm honestly not sure. I think that he wins. 3-3
02 Draco9 :: "Can't Touch Dis" Darksteel Citadel / Etched Champion / Legacy Weapon / Memnite / Mox Opal / Palladium Myr 0-6
Both games are about the same. I leave sphinx and arbiter in my hand. I set up Mox or Caverns with just world queller exiled.
your first turn: Citadel, opal, memnite.
my turn: quell artifacts. 2 remain in play (probably memnite and opal)
your turn: if you want, you can quell creatures with memnite. If you do so, you won't have mana for anything else and we'll draw. Instead, you quell enchantments (doing nothing). Announce palladium myr, tap out to make 4 mana to pay for it
my turn: quell artifacts, now you're left with memnite and palladium myr.
your turn: you quell creatures with memnite and enchantments with palladium myr. You sac memnite, i sac guardian, and palladium myr takes the game home for you.
03 Reyemile :: "" Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Sanctity / Skaab Ruinator / Stony Silence / Zombie Infestation 1-4 My play: You put skaab in the caverns and I can never cast my creature. Then I die to zombie.
Your play: You put in the leyline. I set up my lock. You tap caverns to play Mox, exiling Zombie infestation. You discard ruinator and Stony Silence to make a zombie. I choose creature with World Queller and we stare at each other forever.
05 aurorasparrow :: "" City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion 3-3
Your play:
1a I set up my lock during your upkeep. You play land and pass because you can't cast anything through Augustin
1b I quell lands, now you can't cast anything ever, I eventually attack for 20.
My play:
You make caverns exiling synod centurion during my upkeep. I have just one artifact so I can't keep anything in play, you win by cursing me.
07 cruelshy :: "" Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt 6-0
I set up my lock during your first upkeep or my first turn in both games.
Your first turn is Citadel, then paying 1 each for opal and crypt.
My turn I quell lands leaving opal and crypt in play
Your turn you pay 2 for needle naming zealous guardian, though his activated abilities don't matter anymore.
My turn I quell artifacts, putting you back down to 2 mana. You'll never be able to cast nevermore or heliod.
My play, you start with leyline, caverns exiling omniscience. I cast mox exiling sphinx, you Venser it over and over until I run out of cards to exile to mox, then I can't get any colored mana and I die.
Your play:
start of game: caverns, exile sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian, discard queller and arbiter
1a main phase: caverns, omniscience paying 1
1b upkeep: quell enchantments (doesn't matter which you sac)
2a you could cast venser, but I could discard mox to get shroud, so you wait
2b upkeep I put quell trigger on the stack but you know I"m going to name enchantment, so you have to cast venser. You try to bounce the guardian, but I discard mox to gain shroud. Quelling resolves and I do name enchantment, killing your ability to play spells anymore.
You have a 2/2 venser and I have a 1/1. I have to quell creatures on my next turn to force the draw.
With me on the play, you set up during upkeep 1 and counter my mox so I die.
With you on the play, start game: caverns, exiling sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian.
shimmer myr in response
and after myr comes down, mox in response to guardian
guardian enters, discard queller
1b upkeep: quell artifacts, you sac mox
2a upkeep: you quell creatures, both persist but guardian dies to the -1/-1 counter
you have the only threat left, you win.
When I'm on the play you spellstutter my mox and I die easily. When you are on the play I get to set up before you can make a blue, so we fight over artifacts instead:
pregame caverns, exiling sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian, discard queller and grand arbiter
1a main phase: caverns, exile guide for a red, pay 2 for one of the 1cmc artifacts
1b upkeep: quell artifacts - you sac your artifact
at this point you only have caverns with no counter as a mana source and you can't cast anything CMC greater than 0
13 DragonDart :: "" Lotus Bloom / Myr Retriever / Pithing Needle / Seat of the Synod / Shimmer Myr / Venser, Shaper Savant 6-0
I get my lock up before your first main in both games, from there they go the same way.
Seat by itself won't cast anything, so you have to wait for lotus to unsuspend. You have to play seat on turn 2, so that you'll be able to pay augustin's 1 during your upkeep on turn 3, but during my upkeep between those two turns, I quell lands. Lotus gets countered, gg.
EDIT: Looks like there are already a few people where my idea of the result and theirs don't line up. I'll check back in after work today to try to sort those out specifically.
EDIT2: Adjusted matches vs. tomslogger, knobbdi, plopfil, and whamwhamme based on some of their comments.
EDIT3: Realized that draco9 can get 2 creatures into play and then quell creatures, destroying me.
1 - bateleur) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
2 - Draco9) Sorcery Speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
3 - Reyemile) On the play, exiled Ruinator locks me out from playing a win-con, but I have my own Enchantment so Zombie Infestation doesn't beat me. On the draw, I can infinitely bounce spells and bounce away his Leyline. 4-1
4 - knobbodi) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
5 - aurorapsarrow) On the draw, exiled Centurion locks out my win-con, but I can keep the board clear. On the play, Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 4-1.
6 - MyNameIsFourteen) On the draw, I can infi-bounce. On the play I can resolve Venser after Zealous Guardian resolves, but I think the draw is forced. 4-1
7 - cruelshy) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
9 - Feyd_Ruin) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
10 - plopfill) He can counter Chrome Mox, but not Caverns. 3-3
11 - Personman) He can't do anything without giving me Omniscience. Infibounce, ftw. 6-0
12 - tomsloger) He counter Chrome Mox, not Caverns. 3-3
13 - DragonDart) I'm honestly not sure. He might be able to force a Venser past my defences. That said, exiling Dust Elemental is NOT something he can stop and means he can't force the win. 2-2?
6-0. I have to activate Zombie Infestation's ability on one of my Enchantments to discard Possibility Storm and Death's Shadow. Then we each have a 2/2 and Pinnacle wins.
04 knobbodi :: "Void Where Prohibited"
Chalice of the Void / Darksteel Citadel / Eater of Days / Engineered Explosives / Engineered Explosives / Mox Opal
side note: I am missing how this deck can cast Explosives on 5 t1. It has to cast Eater to have 5 artifacts, right?
4-1. Chalice on 1 means I can't win, but I can still kill Eater with Death's Shadow. On the play, e can cast spells through Possibility Storm, but it doesn't matter - Explosives off Storm is always for 0, I still kill Eater, and Chalice is too late to stop Pinnacle.
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
0-6. City is very good against me, and I can't stop Curse.
06 MyNameIsFourteen :: "This Deck Is Like A Cowboy - It's Faster On The Draw"
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Grand Arbiter Augustin IV / Prognostic Sphinx / World Queller / Zealous Guardian
0-6. Grand Arbiter is awesome against me.
07 cruelshy :: ""
Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt
0-6. The first one where Possibility Storm working would have mattered :/
08 WhammWhamme :: ""
Chrome Mox / Dust Elemental / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Lifeforce / Omniscience / Venser, Shaper Savant
Either Caverns or Mox exiles Omniscience, and Leyline gains its ability. Venser is active at any time, and WW can cast Elemental to reset it.
2-2. Death's Shadow kills the combo from the stack, see posts further down the page for fairly involved discussion of why it's a draw.
09 Feyd_Ruin :: ""
Allosaurus Rider / Myojin of Life's Web / Phyrexian Revoker / Slithering Shade / Voidstone Gargoyle / Woodfall Primus
Yay, there was an Allosaurus Rider deck It was my first idea, though I didn't see Myojin.
1-4. On the draw, 2 Gargoyle-abilities shut down Pinnacle and Shadow and I don't get to do anything.
On the play, I have to play all my stuff or else I lose like I'm on the draw.
T2, he kills my land, but doesn't get priority to get Shade, Gargoyle or revoker into play.
Then we stare at each other.
Feyd points out that Myojin puts things into play simultaneously, so Gargoyle doesn't share its ability in time. Revoker name Helix, but it still shares its ability to Omniscience, so I can win with that. 6-0.
10 plopfill :: ""
Chrome Mox / Glen Elendra Archmage / Shimmer Myr / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide
Myr off of Guides is a turn-zero play, with a follow-up Mox - exiling Archmage - that lets Myr sac to counter noncreature spells.
2-2. I can't resolve any spells, but Death's Shadow does its work from the graveyard.
13 DragonDart :: ""
Lotus Bloom / Myr Retriever / Pithing Needle / Seat of the Synod / Shimmer Myr / Venser, Shaper Savant
With Bloom in Exile, artifacts sac for {3}, and Retriever lets DD make infinite mana - at instant speed once Shimmer Myr has been cast. Venser with the Bloom sac outlet means infinite bounces at instant speed.
6-0. This deck wins with nontoken creatures; Death's Shadow doesn't like that.
11 | 6 6 6 4 0 0 0 2 6 6 X 2 6 | 44
tomsloger, it looks like you missed that even a countered Death's Shadow kills your wincons.
WhammWhamme, I think you missed that Death's Shadow kills your combo pieces from the stack.
A note for anyone confused (as I was) by Mogg's note on aurorasparrow's deck: E ruled on page 3 of the previous thread that non-aura's can't enchant things, because they don't have the Aura subtype. They do technically share their abilities, but "enchanted player" can't refer to anything on a non-aura.
Also, Mogg's note about cruelshy's deck is incorrect, the tokens do not gain abilities via the round rule.
I did, in fact, not see that. Nice find! I think that gives you our match.
OTOH, some corrections to my own initial thoughts:
Thanks to your trick (cast Omniscience with an enchantment in play), I can cast Chrome Mox AND Omniscience when going up against tomsloger, thus powering through a counterspell and, I believe, winning that matchup 6-0.
I think this also wins the matchup against plopfill 6-0.
Also...
Your play, you start with leyline, I set up my lock during your upkeep.
You play caverns, do the free omniscience trick tapping caverns to pay the one, but can't do more this trun because you'd have to pay the extra 1 for venser.
I quell enchantments, you sac one of them (doesn't matter).
On your turn you can now get a free venser, paying 1 to get through augustin, and then if you want, a free dust elemental to reset.
If you chose not to reset, I can replay my creature, forcing you to either reset venser or force the draw by quelling creatures. Either way we never get to attack
If you instead bounce my mox, then I can quell creatures before you can reset venser, forcing a draw.
My play, you start with leyline, caverns exiling omniscience. I cast mox exiling sphinx, you venser it over and over until I run out of cards to exile to mox, then I can't get any colored mana and I die.
...also, on the claimed draw path here: once I get Venser/Elemental going, I can bounce lands... so I can do "bounce spell back to your hand, bounce your land, bounce spell back... EOT when you can't pay for it, Venser, bouncing my land, untap swing reset"... and I have two creatures to do the bouncing with, so there's no way to catch me unable to return your spells.
MyNameIsFourteen, if I could actually cast spells vs you, I could just explosives away zealous guardian, but grand arbiter's ability restricts me to casting one 0 cost artifact per turn (because they cost 1, not 0), which you then choose with queller's ability. Definitely 0-6 in your favor.
Personman, I can only cast explosives for 4 on turn 1. Also, I missed that death!s shadow got to apply its ability even when I have chalice set to 1 or when you have possibility storm in play, because I forgot that we share abilities from the stack. 4-1 in your favor, agreed
Also, aurora sparrow, vs you Reyemile can just remove skaab in some way and start with leyline, so that's 2-2 for you guys
Guys, I have realized something rather embarrassing, given how long I spent thinking about my deck. It kinda doesn't work.
There are two things about my deck that I didn't realize at first. The first is the most embarrassing, because it's the exact principle that lets my Omniscience trick work: Possibility Storm gives its abilities to my other enchantments from the stack, and gets exiled and shuffled into my library.
The second thing is how multiple Possibility Storm triggers work. The second (or third) trigger does not just fail and go away. It fails to exile the spell, but then uses last-known information to continue to resolve. That means that after the first trigger (from pinnacle) puts Storm in my library, the second (from Omniscience) gets it out again. From then on, all of my opponents' spells will get cycled through their library, but will still get cast.
This protects me from Engineered Explosives, but doesn't do a whole lot else :/
It does mean that you have to never exile Omniscience, because if you do, I can play Pinnacle without the land and be faster.
That means that if you want Caverns on t0, you would have to exile Venser with one of your two mana sources, which would mean I could bounce Mox with Shadow.
But you can choose not to play Caverns t0, keeping venser and omniscience in hand.
Then I can hurt myself until I can play shadow, but it will bounce itself because of exiled Dust Elemental.
Buuuuuut here it is: the one match where Lich's Mirror actually matters.
I can float 2 mana when I'm at one life, kill myself, replay everything, and beat your Pinnacle
EDIT: Oh, crap, no I can't, because you can free-venser my Mirror. Yeah, I think it's a draw, if a slightly more complex one than you realized
(also, it turns out Mirror does matter in one of my matches. Still, not a high-value inclusion.)
MyNameIsFourteen, if I could actually cast spells vs you, I could just explosives away zealous guardian, but grand arbiter's ability restricts me to casting one 0 cost artifact per turn (because they cost 1, not 0), which you then choose with queller's ability. Definitely 0-6 in your favor.
You're forgetting that Darksteel Citadel is an Artifact Land, so all your 0 cost artifacts have "tap: add 1". That way you can chain them together in one turn, but they're all tapped at the end. On following turns, you do loose them gradually to quelling, but they can all use the ability from opal to make explosives enough to draw the game like I described.
Ah, except that because I have chrome mox when I'm on the play, your chalice of the void will be unplayable in that game. Maybe this is 4-1 in my favor instead of 2-2?
EDIT: Even when I don't have chrome mox, you have a hard time playing chalice on zero even with your own cards. I think that might slow you down too much. I'll think about it some more.
knobbodi :: "Void Where Prohibited"
Chalice of the Void / Darksteel Citadel / Eater of Days / Engineered Explosives / Engineered Explosives / Mox Opal
Vs:
12 tomsloger :: ""
Aether Vial / Draining Whelk / Gemstone Caverns / Simian Spirit Guide / Spellstutter Sprite / Surge Node
On the play, I just turn 1 eater. Spellstutter can counter one thing but that is irrelevant. On the draw, he sets up vial to use whelk. But surge node makes my artifacts have 6 charge counters unless they have an ability that sets how many they have. So I set explosives to 2 to either destroy sprite or prevent it from being cast. If I ever cast eater, it gets countered and then I blow up whelk. 4-1
4 | 6 6 0 X 0 0 3 6 6 4 3 | 32
we definitely disagree here, as i believe i win 6-0.
you need 4 of your spells to have mana for eater, and chalice of the void counters itself usually. so disrupting any other spells keeps you from a win condition, right?
all i have to counter is helix pinnacle. so i have the luxury of waiting til i lose a bunch of life from my land
I don't play my land. You have to play a threat to avoid a draw. Then I play my land and helix pinnacle. You counter it. Then I play death's shadow.
EDIT: Actually, wait. I wait for you to attack me to 10 or whatever, then play Shadow. You have to counter it or it will kill you. Then I play Pinnacle and win. So you have to not even cast a threat.
So maybe that gives me time to hurt myself with my land enough to play Shadow first. You counter it.. wait. You can't cast Spellstutter on the play. So with you on the draw, it's still a draw, because you have two answers for my two threats. But with you on the play I think I actually win, because you have to counter Shadow with Whelk, and then I can resolve pinnacle.
EDIT2: Nevermind, yes you can, by keeping one Aether Vial on 2. So I think it's a draw.
...also, on the claimed draw path here: once I get Venser/Elemental going, I can bounce lands... so I can do "bounce spell back to your hand, bounce your land, bounce spell back... EOT when you can't pay for it, Venser, bouncing my land, untap swing reset"... and I have two creatures to do the bouncing with, so there's no way to catch me unable to return your spells.
I found what I think is the correct path to the draw when you're on the play and added it to my original post. We seem to agree that this is 4-1 in your favor, so I'm not too worried either way.
I don't think you can counter the guardian when you are on the play, because he comes in before you have a mana source other than simian spirit guide. I think that game looks like this:
pregame: caverns, exiling sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian, discard queller and grand arbiter
1a main phase: caverns, exile guide, pay 2 for one of the 1cmc artifacts
1b upkeep: quell artifacts - you sac your artifact
at this point you only have caverns with no luck counter as a mana source and you can't cast anything CMC greater than 0
That leaves us 3-3, since you still win when I'm on the play.
This thread contains the results for week 4 of All Blind Tournament #13 and is the start of week 1 of ABT#14.
Week 4 of ABT#13 Next Round : Week 1 of ABT#14 Information
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
This week's format hearkens back to simpler times, but the different ban list and deckbuilding restrictions (win/discard before) compared with the format's original outing, will probably cause some new strategies to emerge.
Regarding the infinite sequences discussion that has occupied a few threads and is currently being discussed in its own thread: for this round, infinite sequences will be handled per Personman's rather thorough post in that thread. Also, I've added a poll. The impression I get is that most everyone wants to allow draws via infinite turns. I happen to feel differently, so before finalizing the rules, I just want to confirm that infinite turns being a draw actually does represent the majority interest.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Possibility Storm banned due to
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
That was a rule for the fading round. That wasn't this round.
On another note, it was brought to my attention that bateleur can't actually cast both Painter's Servant and Zombie Infestation. I failed to notice this, and remember that tokens won't get creatures' abilities. If anyone has ideas regarding suitable replacements to the deck, please post them.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
12 tomsloger :: ""
Aether Vial / Draining Whelk / Gemstone Caverns / Simian Spirit Guide / Spellstutter Sprite / Surge Node
Iona, Shield of Emeria / Painter's Servant / Simian Spirit Guide / Swamp / Tyrant of Discord / Zombie Infestation
6-0
02 Draco9 :: "Can't Touch Dis"
Darksteel Citadel / Etched Champion / Legacy Weapon / Memnite / Mox Opal / Palladium Myr
6-0 i stop metalcraft by countering one of the zero cost spells.
03 Reyemile :: ""
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Sanctity / Skaab Ruinator / Stony Silence / Zombie Infestation
3-3 whoever is on the draw wins. that uncounterable caverns is the key.
04 knobbodi :: "Void Where Prohibited"
Chalice of the Void / Darksteel Citadel / Eater of Days / Engineered Explosives / Engineered Explosives / Mox Opal
6-0 on the play, i can counter eater with whelk and whelk stays above engineered explosives. on the draw, you have a lot of options, but i dont see one that beats me. i may be wrong.
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
3-3 see reyemile
06 MyNameIsFourteen :: "This Deck Is Like A Cowboy - It's Faster On The Draw"
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Grand Arbiter Augustin IV / Prognostic Sphinx / World Queller / Zealous Guardian
3-3 countering zealous guardian, or not
07 cruelshy :: ""
Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt
6-0 you get metalcraft, but countering one spell stops you from getting to 4 mana
08 WhammWhamme :: ""
Chrome Mox / Dust Elemental / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Lifeforce / Omniscience / Venser, Shaper Savant
3-3 see reyemile, aurorasparrow
09 Feyd_Ruin :: ""
Allosaurus Rider / Myojin of Life's Web / Phyrexian Revoker / Slithering Shade / Voidstone Gargoyle / Woodfall Primus
6-0 counter allosaurus rider
10 plopfill :: ""
Chrome Mox / Glen Elendra Archmage / Shimmer Myr / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide
6-0 you can counter pithing needle or surge node, but i can beat you with eiter
11 Personman :: ""
Death's Shadow / Helix Pinnacle / Llanowar Wastes / Lich's Mirror / Omniscience / Possibility Storm
2-2 no win conditions for nobody
13 DragonDart :: ""
Lotus Bloom / Myr Retriever / Pithing Needle / Seat of the Synod / Shimmer Myr / Venser, Shaper Savant
im not totally sure... i can counter two spells when im on the play, but that may not be enough to stop you. i definitely lose on the draw.
12 | 6 6 3 6 3 3 6 3 6 6 2 X ? | 46
my suggestion for bateleurs deck is to replace tyrant of discord with memnite or dryad arbor so he can still get his combo out.
as far as bateluer, Chrome Mox instead of Spirit Guide seems reasonable.
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
05 vs 01: Synod Centurion kills all his stuff. 6-0
05 vs 02: Same. 6-0
05 vs 03:
I go first (A):
Him: Leyline.
Me: City of Brass, Spirit Guide, Prowler.
Him (19): Caverns, Mox imprinting Infestation, make Zombie.
Me (19): Attack for 3, outracing him.
I go first (B):
Him: Caverns exiling Skaab.
Me: City of Brass, Spirit Guide, Curse.
Him (19): Mox exiling Leyline, Infestation, loss. (not enough cards for Infestation.)
I go first (C):
Him: Leyline, Caverns exiling Skaab.
Me: City of Brass, go.
Him: Chrome Mox exiling Infestation, draw. (Not enough cards to create a token)
When he goes first, Cavern/Synod shuts him down and I win with Curse. 4-1
05 vs 04: Synod gets him either way. 6-0
05 vs 06: We win other when our opponent goes first. 3-3
05 vs 07: Synod kills everything. 6-0
05 vs 08: He locks me when I go first. When he goes first, I exile Synod and neither player can win. 1-4
05 vs 09:
I go first:
Me: Brass, Spirit Guide, Prowler.
Him: Allosaurus Rider. Primus' ETB kills Brass. Put creatures from hand into play.
Me: Discard Synod in response. Everything dies, draw.
He goes first:
Me: Caverns exiling Prowler.
Him: Pass.
Me: Brass, Curse.
Him: Allosaurus Rider, etb kills Curse. Draw. 2-2
05 vs 10:
I go first:
Him: Shimmer Myr, Chrome Mox.
Me: Brass, Spirit Guide, Prowler.
Him: Pass.
Me: attack, trade with Myr. Curse is countered. Draw.
When he goes first, Synod kills everything. 4-1
05 vs 11: Synod kills Lich's Mirror and Death's Shadow. Possibility Storm is illegal. 6-0
05 vs 12: Synod kills everything. 6-0
05 vs 13: Synod kills everything. 6-0
05 | 6 6 4 6 X 2 6 1 2 4 6 6 6 | 55
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Oops!
I don't think you should replace anything. It's broken by design, so just casting Infestation then making two regular 2/2 Zombies with no abilities is what it does. There's no real justification for replacing any cards.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
(Edited) Against #2, my opponent defeats me with Memnite, Palladium Myr, and Etched Champion.
(Edited) Against #3, if I go first, my opponent exiles Skaab Ruinator with Gemstone Caverns and neither player can do anything useful; if my opponent exiles Zombie Infestation, I get priority first and can cast Shimmer Myr. If I go second, I counter my opponent's Chrome Mox and win.
Against #4, my opponent defeats me with Eater of Days.
Against #5, if I go first, my opponent exiles Synod Centurion with Gemstone Caverns, which stops everything I have; if I go second, I counter my opponent's Curse of the Pierced Heart and block my opponent's Oona's Prowler if it attacks, leading to a draw.
Against #6, it is as described by him.
Against #7, I counter Pithing Needle and win.
Against #8, if I go first, my opponent returns my Shimmer Myr to my hand and defeats me with Venser, Shaper Savant; if I go second, I counter my opponent's Chrome Mox and win.
Against #9, my opponent defeats me with Voidstone Gargoyle.
Against #11, my opponent uses Death's Shadow to kill my Shimmer Myr and wins with Helix Pinnacle.
Against #12, if my opponent goes first, I cast Shimmer Myr during my opponent's first upkeep; my opponent must cast Æther Vial, but that allows me to use the Æther Vial's ability on Shimmer Myr to get Glen Elendra Archmage onto the battlefield, and the most my opponent can get is a 1/1 Spellstutter Sprite, a 2/2 Simian Spirit Guide, and a 2/2 Draining Whelk that countered Surge Node, and I can block all of them because the Spellstutter Sprite and the Draining Whelk cannot survive after being returned by persist; that is a draw. If I go first, if my opponent does not begin the game with Gemstone Caverns on the battlefield, I can get a draw in the same way as described above. If my opponent begins the game with Gemstone Caverns on the battlefield and exiles any card other than Surge Node, I cast Chrome Mox during my first precombat main phase; if my opponent casts Spellstutter Sprite in response, I cast Shimmer Myr and can get a draw in the same way as described above; otherwise, I do not exile any card for Chrome Mox's trigger, and my opponent has to cast either Spellstutter Sprite or Æther Vial to win, and if my opponent casts Spellstutter Sprite, I cast Shimmer Myr and can get a draw in the same way as described above, and if my opponent casts Æther Vial, my Chrome Mox gains its ability and I can put all five of my creature cards onto the battlefield, and they easily hold off my opponent's creatures. If my opponent begins the game with Gemstone Caverns on the battlefield and exiles Surge Node, I cast Chrome Mox and Shimmer Myr during my turn; if my opponent counters Chrome Mox with Spellstutter Sprite, my opponent can get no more than two 1/1 creatures, which my Shimmer Myr can hold off; if my opponent doesn't, I exile Glen Elendra Archmage, and my opponent has to cast Æther Vial to avoid being defeated by my Shimmer Myr, and when that happens, I sacrifice my Shimmer Myr to counter it, and my Shimmer Myr returns, now 1/1, and the only thing my opponent can do is to cast Spellstutter Sprite, and I can block it with my Shimmer Myr. Therefore, this is also a draw.
Against #13, my opponent defeats me with various creatures.
I tried to submit Leyline of the Meek / Soul Ransom / Synod Centurion / Chrome Mox / Gemstone Cavern / Chancellor of the Forge but I guess I missed it.
EDIT: I forgot that I can't activate the Ransom ability on my own Leyline, so my deck would have just drawn a lot anyway. With Erebos's Emissary in place of Ransom, I would have gone 10-0-3, drawing with WW, tomsloger, and DD, but too late
Edit: I'm realizing that, vs. the Simian Spirit Guide decks, sometimes I do have to do Mogg's line of play
Chalice of the Void / Darksteel Citadel / Eater of Days / Engineered Explosives / Engineered Explosives / Mox Opal
Vs:
bateleur :: "Will The Real Shield of Emeria Please Stand Up?"
Iona, Shield of Emeria / Painter's Servant / Simian Spirit Guide / Swamp / Tyrant of Discord / Zombie Infestation
Regardless of replacement cards, bateleur has to resolve two 2 drops. Chalice on 2 shuts him down. 6-0
02 Draco9 :: "Can't Touch Dis"
Darksteel Citadel / Etched Champion / Legacy Weapon / Memnite / Mox Opal / Palladium Myr
On the play, chalice on 0 locks him out. On the draw, since memnite will have summoning sickness, he cannot play either of his 3s. So on my turn 1 I set chalice to 3. 6-0
03 Reyemile :: ""
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Sanctity / Skaab Ruinator / Stony Silence / Zombie Infestation
Turn 0 or 1 Stony silence crushes me. 0-6
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
I have no non artifact permanents, and none of them have flash, so centurion prevents me from playing spells. 0-6
06 MyNameIsFourteen :: "This Deck Is Like A Cowboy - It's Faster On The Draw"
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Grand Arbiter Augustin IV / Prognostic Sphinx / World Queller / Zealous Guardian
Augustin and world queller team up to keep me from ever reaching 3 artifacts, which I would need to explosives for 1 and end little zealous guardian's life. 0-6
07 cruelshy :: ""
Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt
Nevermore on his play, chalice set to 0 on mine. 3-3
08 WhammWhamme :: ""
Chrome Mox / Dust Elemental / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Lifeforce / Omniscience / Venser, Shaper Savant
Leyline stops chalice from being relevant, so venser bounces either explosives set to 4 or eater of days every turn and then attacks and bounces all of things. 0-6
09 Feyd_Ruin :: ""
Allosaurus Rider / Myojin of Life's Web / Phyrexian Revoker / Slithering Shade / Voidstone Gargoyle / Woodfall Primus
Turn 1 eater of days on my play, turn 1 voidstone naming explosives on his. 3-3
10 plopfill :: ""
Chrome Mox / Glen Elendra Archmage / Shimmer Myr / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide
Countering 1 of my spells doesn't do enough to stop me, and then I eat his days. 6-0
11 Personman :: ""
Death's Shadow / Helix Pinnacle / Llanowar Wastes / Lich's Mirror / Omniscience / Possibility Storm
On the play, chalice set to 1 locks him out. On his play, if he doesn't play possibility storm, I set both explosives to 1, destroy helix pinnacle and prevent him from replaying it or playing death's shadow, then I play eater. When he plays possibility storm, he then can't play death's shadow anymore and I just play eater. 6-0
12 tomsloger :: ""
Aether Vial / Draining Whelk / Gemstone Caverns / Simian Spirit Guide / Spellstutter Sprite / Surge Node
On the play, I just turn 1 eater. Spellstutter can counter one thing but that is irrelevant. On the draw, he sets up vial to use whelk. But surge node makes my artifacts have 6 charge counters unless they have an ability that sets how many they have. So I set explosives to 2 to either destroy sprite or prevent it from being cast. If I ever cast eater, it gets countered and then I blow up whelk. 4-1
13 DragonDart :: ""
Lotus Bloom / Myr Retriever / Pithing Needle / Seat of the Synod / Shimmer Myr / Venser, Shaper Savant
On the play I set chalice to 0, 1, and 2 so he can't make infinite mana, and then eater makes short work of him. On the draw, I'm honestly not sure. I think that he wins. 3-3
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Grand Arbiter Augustin IV / Prognostic Sphinx / World Queller / Zealous Guardian
06 | 6 0 1 2 3 x 6 1 6 0 6 3 6 | 38
Iona, Shield of Emeria / Painter's Servant / Simian Spirit Guide / Swamp / Tyrant of Discord / Zombie Infestation
6-0 I set up my lock in both games and you can never cast a spell.
02 Draco9 :: "Can't Touch Dis"
Darksteel Citadel / Etched Champion / Legacy Weapon / Memnite / Mox Opal / Palladium Myr
0-6
Both games are about the same. I leave sphinx and arbiter in my hand. I set up Mox or Caverns with just world queller exiled.
your first turn: Citadel, opal, memnite.
my turn: quell artifacts. 2 remain in play (probably memnite and opal)
your turn: if you want, you can quell creatures with memnite. If you do so, you won't have mana for anything else and we'll draw. Instead, you quell enchantments (doing nothing). Announce palladium myr, tap out to make 4 mana to pay for it
my turn: quell artifacts, now you're left with memnite and palladium myr.
your turn: you quell creatures with memnite and enchantments with palladium myr. You sac memnite, i sac guardian, and palladium myr takes the game home for you.
03 Reyemile :: ""
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Sanctity / Skaab Ruinator / Stony Silence / Zombie Infestation
1-4 My play: You put skaab in the caverns and I can never cast my creature. Then I die to zombie.
Your play: You put in the leyline. I set up my lock. You tap caverns to play Mox, exiling Zombie infestation. You discard ruinator and Stony Silence to make a zombie. I choose creature with World Queller and we stare at each other forever.
04 knobbodi :: "Void Where Prohibited"
Chalice of the Void / Darksteel Citadel / Eater of Days / Engineered Explosives / Engineered Explosives / Mox Opal
2-2 I get my lock set up in both games. You can't cast eater, but you can engineer my creature's explosion.
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
3-3
Your play:
1a I set up my lock during your upkeep. You play land and pass because you can't cast anything through Augustin
1b I quell lands, now you can't cast anything ever, I eventually attack for 20.
My play:
You make caverns exiling synod centurion during my upkeep. I have just one artifact so I can't keep anything in play, you win by cursing me.
07 cruelshy :: ""
Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt
6-0
I set up my lock during your first upkeep or my first turn in both games.
Your first turn is Citadel, then paying 1 each for opal and crypt.
My turn I quell lands leaving opal and crypt in play
Your turn you pay 2 for needle naming zealous guardian, though his activated abilities don't matter anymore.
My turn I quell artifacts, putting you back down to 2 mana. You'll never be able to cast nevermore or heliod.
08 WhammWhamme :: ""
Chrome Mox / Dust Elemental / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Lifeforce / Omniscience / Venser, Shaper Savant
1-4
Your play:
start of game: caverns, exile sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian, discard queller and arbiter
1a main phase: caverns, omniscience paying 1
1b upkeep: quell enchantments (doesn't matter which you sac)
2a you could cast venser, but I could discard mox to get shroud, so you wait
2b upkeep I put quell trigger on the stack but you know I"m going to name enchantment, so you have to cast venser. You try to bounce the guardian, but I discard mox to gain shroud. Quelling resolves and I do name enchantment, killing your ability to play spells anymore.
You have a 2/2 venser and I have a 1/1. I have to quell creatures on my next turn to force the draw.
09 Feyd_Ruin :: ""
Allosaurus Rider / Myojin of Life's Web / Phyrexian Revoker / Slithering Shade / Voidstone Gargoyle / Woodfall Primus
6-0 I set up my lock during my turn or your first upkeep. You never cast anything because you can't pay the extra 1 for your free spells.
10 plopfill :: ""
Chrome Mox / Glen Elendra Archmage / Shimmer Myr / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide
0-6This whole matchup is mostly fought during the first turn of whoever is on the play.
With you on the play, start game: caverns, exiling sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian.
shimmer myr in response
and after myr comes down, mox in response to guardian
guardian enters, discard queller
1b upkeep: quell artifacts, you sac mox
2a upkeep: you quell creatures, both persist but guardian dies to the -1/-1 counter
you have the only threat left, you win.
11 Personman :: ""
Death's Shadow / Helix Pinnacle / Llanowar Wastes / Lich's Mirror / Omniscience / Possibility Storm
6-0You can't get your 1-mana spells out of your hand
12 tomsloger :: ""
Aether Vial / Draining Whelk / Gemstone Caverns / Simian Spirit Guide / Spellstutter Sprite / Surge Node
3-3
pregame caverns, exiling sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian, discard queller and grand arbiter
1a main phase: caverns, exile guide for a red, pay 2 for one of the 1cmc artifacts
1b upkeep: quell artifacts - you sac your artifact
at this point you only have caverns with no counter as a mana source and you can't cast anything CMC greater than 0
13 DragonDart :: ""
Lotus Bloom / Myr Retriever / Pithing Needle / Seat of the Synod / Shimmer Myr / Venser, Shaper Savant
6-0
I get my lock up before your first main in both games, from there they go the same way.
Seat by itself won't cast anything, so you have to wait for lotus to unsuspend. You have to play seat on turn 2, so that you'll be able to pay augustin's 1 during your upkeep on turn 3, but during my upkeep between those two turns, I quell lands. Lotus gets countered, gg.
EDIT: Looks like there are already a few people where my idea of the result and theirs don't line up. I'll check back in after work today to try to sort those out specifically.
EDIT2: Adjusted matches vs. tomslogger, knobbdi, plopfil, and whamwhamme based on some of their comments.
EDIT3: Realized that draco9 can get 2 creatures into play and then quell creatures, destroying me.
1 - bateleur) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
2 - Draco9) Sorcery Speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
3 - Reyemile) On the play, exiled Ruinator locks me out from playing a win-con, but I have my own Enchantment so Zombie Infestation doesn't beat me. On the draw, I can infinitely bounce spells and bounce away his Leyline. 4-1
4 - knobbodi) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
5 - aurorapsarrow) On the draw, exiled Centurion locks out my win-con, but I can keep the board clear. On the play, Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 4-1.
6 - MyNameIsFourteen) On the draw, I can infi-bounce. On the play I can resolve Venser after Zealous Guardian resolves, but I think the draw is forced. 4-1
7 - cruelshy) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
9 - Feyd_Ruin) Sorcery speed deck never resolves a spell. 6-0
10 - plopfill) He can counter Chrome Mox, but not Caverns. 3-3
11 - Personman) He can't do anything without giving me Omniscience. Infibounce, ftw. 6-0
12 - tomsloger) He counter Chrome Mox, not Caverns. 3-3
13 - DragonDart) I'm honestly not sure. He might be able to force a Venser past my defences. That said, exiling Dust Elemental is NOT something he can stop and means he can't force the win. 2-2?
X | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 | PT | TPs
8 | 6 6 4 6 4 4 6 X 6 3 6 3 2 | 00 | 000
Results for 11 Personman :: ""
Death's Shadow / Helix Pinnacle / Llanowar Wastes / Lich's Mirror / Omniscience / Possibility Storm
Iona, Shield of Emeria / Painter's Servant / Simian Spirit Guide / Swamp / Tyrant of Discord / Zombie Infestation
6-0, I can beat one zombie with just Death's Shadow.
02 Draco9 :: "Can't Touch Dis"
Darksteel Citadel / Etched Champion / Legacy Weapon / Memnite / Mox Opal / Palladium Myr
6-0. Death's Shadow removes all win conditions and the ability to activate Legacy Weapon.
03 Reyemile :: ""
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Sanctity / Skaab Ruinator / Stony Silence / Zombie Infestation
6-0. I have to activate Zombie Infestation's ability on one of my Enchantments to discard Possibility Storm and Death's Shadow. Then we each have a 2/2 and Pinnacle wins.
04 knobbodi :: "Void Where Prohibited"
Chalice of the Void / Darksteel Citadel / Eater of Days / Engineered Explosives / Engineered Explosives / Mox Opal
side note: I am missing how this deck can cast Explosives on 5 t1. It has to cast Eater to have 5 artifacts, right?
4-1. Chalice on 1 means I can't win, but I can still kill Eater with Death's Shadow. On the play, e can cast spells through Possibility Storm, but it doesn't matter - Explosives off Storm is always for 0, I still kill Eater, and Chalice is too late to stop Pinnacle.
05 aurorasparrow :: ""
City of Brass / Curse of the Pierced Heart / Gemstone Caverns / Oona's Prowler / Simian Spirit Guide / Synod Centurion
0-6. City is very good against me, and I can't stop Curse.
06 MyNameIsFourteen :: "This Deck Is Like A Cowboy - It's Faster On The Draw"
Chrome Mox / Gemstone Caverns / Grand Arbiter Augustin IV / Prognostic Sphinx / World Queller / Zealous Guardian
0-6. Grand Arbiter is awesome against me.
07 cruelshy :: ""
Darksteel Citadel / Heliod, God of the Sun / Mox Opal / Nevermore / Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt
0-6. The first one where Possibility Storm working would have mattered :/
08 WhammWhamme :: ""
Chrome Mox / Dust Elemental / Gemstone Caverns / Leyline of Lifeforce / Omniscience / Venser, Shaper Savant
Either Caverns or Mox exiles Omniscience, and Leyline gains its ability. Venser is active at any time, and WW can cast Elemental to reset it.
2-2. Death's Shadow kills the combo from the stack, see posts further down the page for fairly involved discussion of why it's a draw.
09 Feyd_Ruin :: ""
Allosaurus Rider / Myojin of Life's Web / Phyrexian Revoker / Slithering Shade / Voidstone Gargoyle / Woodfall Primus
Yay, there was an Allosaurus Rider deck It was my first idea, though I didn't see Myojin.
1-4. On the draw, 2 Gargoyle-abilities shut down Pinnacle and Shadow and I don't get to do anything.
On the play, I have to play all my stuff or else I lose like I'm on the draw.
T2, he kills my land, but doesn't get priority to get Shade, Gargoyle or revoker into play.
Then we stare at each other.
Feyd points out that Myojin puts things into play simultaneously, so Gargoyle doesn't share its ability in time. Revoker name Helix, but it still shares its ability to Omniscience, so I can win with that. 6-0.
10 plopfill :: ""
Chrome Mox / Glen Elendra Archmage / Shimmer Myr / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide / Simian Spirit Guide
Myr off of Guides is a turn-zero play, with a follow-up Mox - exiling Archmage - that lets Myr sac to counter noncreature spells.
6-0. Death's Shadow just wins.
12 tomsloger :: ""
Aether Vial / Draining Whelk / Gemstone Caverns / Simian Spirit Guide / Spellstutter Sprite / Surge Node
2-2. I can't resolve any spells, but Death's Shadow does its work from the graveyard.
13 DragonDart :: ""
Lotus Bloom / Myr Retriever / Pithing Needle / Seat of the Synod / Shimmer Myr / Venser, Shaper Savant
With Bloom in Exile, artifacts sac for {3}, and Retriever lets DD make infinite mana - at instant speed once Shimmer Myr has been cast. Venser with the Bloom sac outlet means infinite bounces at instant speed.
6-0. This deck wins with nontoken creatures; Death's Shadow doesn't like that.
11 | 6 6 6 4 0 0 0 2 6 6 X 2 6 | 44
tomsloger, it looks like you missed that even a countered Death's Shadow kills your wincons.
WhammWhamme, I think you missed that Death's Shadow kills your combo pieces from the stack.
A note for anyone confused (as I was) by Mogg's note on aurorasparrow's deck: E ruled on page 3 of the previous thread that non-aura's can't enchant things, because they don't have the Aura subtype. They do technically share their abilities, but "enchanted player" can't refer to anything on a non-aura.
Also, Mogg's note about cruelshy's deck is incorrect, the tokens do not gain abilities via the round rule.
I did, in fact, not see that. Nice find! I think that gives you our match.
OTOH, some corrections to my own initial thoughts:
Thanks to your trick (cast Omniscience with an enchantment in play), I can cast Chrome Mox AND Omniscience when going up against tomsloger, thus powering through a counterspell and, I believe, winning that matchup 6-0.
I think this also wins the matchup against plopfill 6-0.
Also...
...also, on the claimed draw path here: once I get Venser/Elemental going, I can bounce lands... so I can do "bounce spell back to your hand, bounce your land, bounce spell back... EOT when you can't pay for it, Venser, bouncing my land, untap swing reset"... and I have two creatures to do the bouncing with, so there's no way to catch me unable to return your spells.
Personman, I can only cast explosives for 4 on turn 1. Also, I missed that death!s shadow got to apply its ability even when I have chalice set to 1 or when you have possibility storm in play, because I forgot that we share abilities from the stack. 4-1 in your favor, agreed
Also, aurora sparrow, vs you Reyemile can just remove skaab in some way and start with leyline, so that's 2-2 for you guys
There are two things about my deck that I didn't realize at first. The first is the most embarrassing, because it's the exact principle that lets my Omniscience trick work: Possibility Storm gives its abilities to my other enchantments from the stack, and gets exiled and shuffled into my library.
The second thing is how multiple Possibility Storm triggers work. The second (or third) trigger does not just fail and go away. It fails to exile the spell, but then uses last-known information to continue to resolve. That means that after the first trigger (from pinnacle) puts Storm in my library, the second (from Omniscience) gets it out again. From then on, all of my opponents' spells will get cycled through their library, but will still get cast.
This protects me from Engineered Explosives, but doesn't do a whole lot else :/
If he casts Helix Pinnacle, I think I win with a Helix Leyline before he does, since my land is in play and untapped when he does so.
And I can lock out Death's Shadow as a win-con by exiling Dust Elemental.
So it's a 2-2 draw; he casts Death's Shadow to lock out my win, I lock out his, nobody wins.
It does mean that you have to never exile Omniscience, because if you do, I can play Pinnacle without the land and be faster.
That means that if you want Caverns on t0, you would have to exile Venser with one of your two mana sources, which would mean I could bounce Mox with Shadow.
But you can choose not to play Caverns t0, keeping venser and omniscience in hand.
Then I can hurt myself until I can play shadow, but it will bounce itself because of exiled Dust Elemental.
Buuuuuut here it is: the one match where Lich's Mirror actually matters.
I can float 2 mana when I'm at one life, kill myself, replay everything, and beat your Pinnacle
EDIT: Oh, crap, no I can't, because you can free-venser my Mirror. Yeah, I think it's a draw, if a slightly more complex one than you realized
(also, it turns out Mirror does matter in one of my matches. Still, not a high-value inclusion.)
Ah, except that because I have chrome mox when I'm on the play, your chalice of the void will be unplayable in that game. Maybe this is 4-1 in my favor instead of 2-2?
EDIT: Even when I don't have chrome mox, you have a hard time playing chalice on zero even with your own cards. I think that might slow you down too much. I'll think about it some more.
we definitely disagree here, as i believe i win 6-0.
you need 4 of your spells to have mana for eater, and chalice of the void counters itself usually. so disrupting any other spells keeps you from a win condition, right?
all i have to counter is helix pinnacle. so i have the luxury of waiting til i lose a bunch of life from my land
I don't play my land. You have to play a threat to avoid a draw. Then I play my land and helix pinnacle. You counter it. Then I play death's shadow.
EDIT: Actually, wait. I wait for you to attack me to 10 or whatever, then play Shadow. You have to counter it or it will kill you. Then I play Pinnacle and win. So you have to not even cast a threat.
So maybe that gives me time to hurt myself with my land enough to play Shadow first. You counter it.. wait. You can't cast Spellstutter on the play. So with you on the draw, it's still a draw, because you have two answers for my two threats. But with you on the play I think I actually win, because you have to counter Shadow with Whelk, and then I can resolve pinnacle.
EDIT2: Nevermind, yes you can, by keeping one Aether Vial on 2. So I think it's a draw.
I found what I think is the correct path to the draw when you're on the play and added it to my original post. We seem to agree that this is 4-1 in your favor, so I'm not too worried either way.
I don't think you can counter the guardian when you are on the play, because he comes in before you have a mana source other than simian spirit guide. I think that game looks like this:
pregame: caverns, exiling sphinx
1a upkeep: guardian, discard queller and grand arbiter
1a main phase: caverns, exile guide, pay 2 for one of the 1cmc artifacts
1b upkeep: quell artifacts - you sac your artifact
at this point you only have caverns with no luck counter as a mana source and you can't cast anything CMC greater than 0
That leaves us 3-3, since you still win when I'm on the play.