I unfortunately agree with you here… I don’t know what the heck Rax is getting at.
Posting at stupid o'clock in the morning is no good.
I still don't like this situation at all, Hunt and Chris both look like scum to me, but Chris got to that point first & I'd love to see a claim from him.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
It should be noted that the first 3 responses that popped into my head when I read that post were all very rude and derisive statements that are not proper for the game of mafia.
Needless to say, I won't be claiming at your behest at this time.
But since the only thing you posted about me has been proven to be posted at stupid o'clock, as you say, you might want to provide more insight than "I don't like this situation at all." If you have a problem with me that is fine, but show your work.
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I'm starting to dislike Hunt. #201 is very empty for having so many words…
Tom seems way too active to be newb!scum. He could easily scate by in a game this size. Leaning town there.
Most of the words in that post weren’t mine. So not sure what kind of bull***** web you are spinning here Rhand.
What if Newb!Scum Tom was being coached by a much more experienced scum player… one who might be cagey enough to get him to post even more than he might want to. I don’t know if you noticed, but his posts may be frequent, but every single one is fence-sitty to me, aside from his defenses of Chris.
Since when do you use wording like "bull*****" in mafia Hunt?
Explain me how getting coached would work? Are you saying scum has daychat?
Also, if you think he is getting coached, then why are so many of his posts fence-sitty? Wouldn't the coach tell him not to do that?
I believe fence-sitting with newbs is more a town-tell than a scum-tell too. Town!newbs honestly have no clue what to look for in scum. Scum!newbs would realize that they need to have an opinion and fake one.
Since when do you use wording like "bull*****" in mafia Hunt?
Explain me how getting coached would work? Are you saying scum has daychat?
Also, if you think he is getting coached, then why are so many of his posts fence-sitty? Wouldn't the coach tell him not to do that?
I believe fence-sitting with newbs is more a town-tell than a scum-tell too. Town!newbs honestly have no clue what to look for in scum. Scum!newbs would realize that they need to have an opinion and fake one.
I was admittedly a little heated when I was writing the quote wall, as I was fired up about Chris. When I get heated I swear a little more. I apologize if it offends you Rhand.
So the coaching idea was predicated upon the assumption that scum had day chat. Looking at the OP, nothing rules this out or states it as obviously true.
I do feel your point about them coaching the fence-sitty nature of the posts so that it DIDN'T look that way is correct, but looking back, T-Slog does TRY to get more firm after I had mentioned it. This points to it not being coached, unless the coach hadn't noticed it until I brought it up either. I feel that is more null than anything, because it just creates a WIFOM argument.
But the one question I have out of all that is would new scum always need to have to fake an opinion? Why couldn't they just be "too dumb to scum" as I have seen it put? I don't believe it to be the case, especially if they are being coached. But why is that not a possibility in your eyes?
@Sir Chris:
1. The post was talking to Tom, although tom was actually addressing Rhand.
2. Sorry i actually dont see the differences you are saying are there, if you are talking about activity levels then yeah there is a difference there but i dont feel the tone or feel has changed much there.
3. I didnt comment further on your hunt case because i didnt feel there was anything i could add, further more yes my original stance was due to the white knighting but as things progressed i became more and more secured on my read, yes i didnt go "Oh hey guys my read on Huntz is still scum because of X" all over the thread but the fact that i have not changed my vote at all and have even pointed out to tom that im seeing similarities with Huntz current game and BD to be enough to show where my read on him is moving.
@Hunt:
1. Chill and back off, the amount of AtE wording and tone you are bringing is through the roof, I really dont think i have done anything to deserve wording such as '*****ing' and 'bull*****', specially when you should have enough play experience with me to know my thought process and posting patterns.
2. In regards to your whole "back it up dammit!" - yeah fat chance on that, you know i never do the whole PBPAs (for a variety of reasons but mainly lack of attention span), no im not going to talk about your neutral game because i was not a part of it, i have no hands on experience with it and as such i do not use those games as meta reasoning (same applies to town games, and yes thats also how i deal with meta as a whole, if i dont have hands on experience with it i dont use it).
3. You are going 'sepi jumped on me for a contrived reason' but it isnt, your 'scum debut' is the only game i can draw from and its the only one i will consider because its the only one i have had experience with, that again is something you should be aware of (i am pretty sure i have explained my stance on meta at some point in almost every game i have been on), you are ignoring behavior that you should be aware of when dealing with me and your emotion driven engagement shows you dont feel an actual calm and collected argument would help you, you are acting exactly like i would expect you to behave after your BD game, that game gave me a good mental behavioral frame of you and thats what im using when dealing with your actions.
4. Seriously dude chill that level of aggression is grossly misdirected and really unsportmanlike
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
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Tom is displaying what I think of as first level thinking that makes sense for a new town. His opinion of Hunt worsened when Hunt called him scum, and his opinion of me worsened when I called a person he thinks is scum town. I don't know that's just pretty common way to filter the game for a new player that I think makes a lot of sense. Combined with his high level of activity and I have no interest in lynching tom today. He could be scum, but it'd be very atypical new scum behavior.
3. I didnt comment further on your hunt case because i didnt feel there was anything i could add, further more yes my original stance was due to the white knighting but as things progressed i became more and more secured on my read, yes i didnt go "Oh hey guys my read on Huntz is still scum because of X" all over the thread but the fact that i have not changed my vote at all and have even pointed out to tom that im seeing similarities with Huntz current game and BD to be enough to show where my read on him is moving.
Rhand do you remember how I sniffed you out in xkcd mafia in regards to your read of Plow? If you can step outside of yourself for a moment, do you see the same similarities I am between Sepi's defense and your scum defense that game?
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I am remembering how you kind of forgot to show your work with Plows. You had claimed to have read and had a progressive opinion but you didn't actually document it.
Also I'd like for Sepi to re-explain those similarities to me because he is far more aggressive this game than that game.
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Now that rhand responded Im just going to point out that going "hey player x do you remember how i caught you in y game because you did z? Look at player A and tell me if the same tell i used on you also works here" is not the best way to look at me, if you can point out to "hey sepi remember when i caught you in game x doing this same thing?" That makes sense but trying to attribute a behavioral point from a separate player to me... yeah good luck there.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Hey Sepi remember that one time you were scum in a game with me and I just kept town from arguing with itself and Generic murdered Hunt and then you murdered me and we didn't really interact a lot and you are intelligent enough to know that so you just basically said 'Hey Chris, call on experience I know you don't have to lynch me, only that is reasonable' yeah good times.
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Tom is displaying what I think of as first level thinking that makes sense for a new town. His opinion of Hunt worsened when Hunt called him scum, and his opinion of me worsened when I called a person he thinks is scum town.
i dont believe im about to argue a post that proves to you that i am town, but i would like to say that i became suspicious of you when you suddenly abandoned a position after talking about how scum doesnt change positions. seems too contrived to me.
relevant quote, from 249:
Most importantly though, because it does not relate to the advice you have been given, is your turn around on Tom. Scum are just so rigid sometimes that it hurts. Now, of course, I still don't understand quite what you're thinking, but it is much more common that a member of town manages to make me scratch my head than it is for scum to expose themselves by switching gears so early on.
maybe you'd be more careful about that, but that sort of seems like a slip
Well I am not going to prattle on about my own scum game, I will say though that I don't tend to 'slip.' If you presented that to me about anyone though I wouldn't call that a slip. Because what you're really saying Tom is that no one can avoid suspicion if the reason they change their stance on someone is due to the other person's lack of rigidity. It's a perfectly fair reason to change an opinion on someone!
I will concede however that I am not rigid as either faction. I consider myself an exception to just about every single scum hunting rule I lay down, and will leave it to others to catch that side of me one day since I, of course, do not have to ever scum hunt myself.
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@Sir Chris:
1. The post was talking to Tom, although tom was actually addressing Rhand.
2. Sorry i actually dont see the differences you are saying are there, if you are talking about activity levels then yeah there is a difference there but i dont feel the tone or feel has changed much there.
3. I didnt comment further on your hunt case because i didnt feel there was anything i could add, further more yes my original stance was due to the white knighting but as things progressed i became more and more secured on my read, yes i didnt go "Oh hey guys my read on Huntz is still scum because of X" all over the thread but the fact that i have not changed my vote at all and have even pointed out to tom that im seeing similarities with Huntz current game and BD to be enough to show where my read on him is moving.
@Hunt:
1. Chill and back off, the amount of AtE wording and tone you are bringing is through the roof, I really dont think i have done anything to deserve wording such as '*****ing' and 'bull*****', specially when you should have enough play experience with me to know my thought process and posting patterns.
2. In regards to your whole "back it up dammit!" - yeah fat chance on that, you know i never do the whole PBPAs (for a variety of reasons but mainly lack of attention span), no im not going to talk about your neutral game because i was not a part of it, i have no hands on experience with it and as such i do not use those games as meta reasoning (same applies to town games, and yes thats also how i deal with meta as a whole, if i dont have hands on experience with it i dont use it).
3. You are going 'sepi jumped on me for a contrived reason' but it isnt, your 'scum debut' is the only game i can draw from and its the only one i will consider because its the only one i have had experience with, that again is something you should be aware of (i am pretty sure i have explained my stance on meta at some point in almost every game i have been on), you are ignoring behavior that you should be aware of when dealing with me and your emotion driven engagement shows you dont feel an actual calm and collected argument would help you, you are acting exactly like i would expect you to behave after your BD game, that game gave me a good mental behavioral frame of you and thats what im using when dealing with your actions.
4. Seriously dude chill that level of aggression is grossly misdirected and really unsportmanlike
Again, I am sorry if I offended you with the language. This is very serious and sincere, I got a little heated dealing with Sir chris and lost my head a bit. I do not mean to offend you in any way Sepi.
That said, I am not sorry about the aggression. Whereas you may be actually offended by the words, the thoughts behind them remain the same, and the belief in them pointing to you being scummy does not change either.
1. Agreed, this part I apologize for, got a bit carried away, and I do have quite a familiarity with you through many many games at this point.
2. That is fine if you don't want to do a whole PBPA, or even quote. At this point, show me the logic behind the comparison. Put it into words. Because I think you were just trying to tie me tenuously to my scum game to discredit me and find a way to justify me remaining as scum. I don't believe there is a single tie to it at all. This is what I mean by contrived.
3. I get your "meta" reasoning. But you still aren't showing me how they are tied. Simply that I was scum in that one and you think I am again. That does not prove anything. That is a made up opinion by you. The argument is calm and collected now. I was heated, but you can't use that as your shield now. Stop hiding.
4. Again, this feels tacked on in order to try and discredit further because you don't have a case at all and you know your logic has been called out. I am not being unsportsmanlike. Calling you lying scum is completely within the realm of the game.
@Hunt: maybe that just means he isn't coached and just listens? I don't think it means anything.
I agree that this makes the most sense.
Still not a huge fan this second. Gotta give me more time to relax on it though, I saw red and it's gonna take a while before I can let it go on either Chris or TomS.
Sorry Hooker, I actually responded to you earlier in the day but my internet disconnected me as I hit post and I went to take a nap, and I forgot it never posted.
The short of it is I am not going to flavor claim for someone who has posted nothing and given no reason for any of the shallow stances.
Actually wouldn't flavor claim for anyone, mind you.
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Cyan you don't appear to be very invested in the game. What's up?
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Cyan you don't appear to be very invested in the game. What's up?
Personal stuff. I should probably replace out, honestly, but I've only ever requested replacement once, due to the Mod being demonstrably awful. Plus I really want to redeem my performance for last game. This game is also hard for me to analyze for some reason.
Well I'll try to help you out by involving you a bit.
So I made a couple of points about Sepi and voted him. What did you think about what I have said? Also while the vote you noted of Anno's is bad, what is the scum mindset there?
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Okay time to make posts that make scum have to kill me night 1.
Okay so I am a big believer that effort is often more important than sheer skill when it comes to winning as town in mafia to a certain extent. I think that, regardless of how good someone might be, if they do not put in a number of posts toward the game it won't matter. As we get to the half way point of day one I think now is an excellent time to hold people accountable and force a greater level of activity upon the game. An inactive game is the easiest type of game for scum to win, and I will cede this point to them only when I am rotting in the ground and not a moment before. My bar isn't particularly high, I just ask that everyone be more active than the host. I think that's pretty fair. So far over half of the game, 9/16 of the players, have failed to meet this low standard of mine:
Ika: 7 - votes Hookerpunch, asks Johnny how he is doing, posts town reads on johnny, me, and hooker despite still voting hooker, unvotes hooker when rhand reminds him of that and notes he should get interested in the game...eventually..., says he'll get to it after work, says he had a nice rest and has a town block of hooker, tom, a misspelling of my name not that I am bitter, himself, and rhand, says that yes, he IS willing to vote all those others.
So Ika hasn't done a lot but what's interesting is he has some guts about him when TappingStones questions his willingness to lynch so many people, and I like quite a few of the people he says are town Needs to post a lot more, elaborate, and actually give detail to his thoughts because while I like his cheeky spirit he isn't actually adding anything to the game and if town is just going to be washed away easily.
Annorax: 7 (Confirms and RVS votes Cyan, comments on end of RVS, notes his distaste for RVS and people who try to find use in it, elaborates further on his distaste for RVS information hunting, answers Void's question about scum count with a few different theories, votes me with some interesting reasoning, concedes his reasoning on me was due to stupidity but presses on against me, notes a love for a claim)
So despite only having 7 posts there has been some meat to Annorax's posts. He discusses RVS a bit and, while perhaps not probative to the game state, is something I actually agree with and contributes something to conversation. Full disclosure I started with the least posts and am working my way up, so after seeing Void/Hans' lack of content this is a nice departure from that. I can't help but wonder if someone on the scum board talked about Hunt being new ,he is relatively new after all, and Annorax misunderstanding how new and trying to call me out on it, and then realizing that he misinterpreted it and backed away like a kid who touched a stove. Just a theory though, doesn't have to be true, but one that at the very least makes sense. Annorax if you want to put my mind at ease, post more content.
Hans: 6 (Confirms, literally says sup, let's us know kpaca is town randomly, asks Hunt about post 53, talks about illness keeping him from posting a week ago, wants a mass claim 3 days ago)
Okay so post 53 is Hunt saying sup back to Hans, so Hans has literally done nothing this game aside from quite randomly suggest a mass claim and calling kpaca town for whatever reason. Hans remember when you helped me win Avant Garde mafia because of your extremely poor town play that was not redeemable in basically any way? I don't think you enjoy being a burden to the game, and I don't say this to be mean, but stop being a burden to your team mates regardless of faction. I feel sympathy if you're sick, truly, but if there is no end in sight to your illness we have two capable players who I am sure are excited to play. You need to give us more if you can Hans, or concede your right to play. This is a pattern with you now in my estimation. Sorry if this is harsh, but I enjoy winning and playing with players who are willing (or if you are very ill for this long, capable) of participating at somewhat of a decent level.
Void: 6 (Confirm post, comments about weak RVS, Asks how many scum there are, claims it is an important question, votes tom because I guess tom didn't answer his question, says post is coming tomorrow....3 days ago)
I like the name Void for this guy because his content has been exactly that. A question he never goes into detail about, a vote with no real backing, and a promise for content broken. I mean he doesn't have to be scum, but if he isn't talk about easy lynch bait. You need to be a lot better than this in the second half of the game day if you don't just want to drop dead at some point.
Cyan: 5 (Confirm post, his vote of me, his unvote of me, his vote of Annorax, his explanation of his lack of investment thus far)
Now I have two warring thoughts on Cyan in his brief time with us. One is I don't like it when people vote based off... “bad.” I think I said somewhere else that voting someone for being bad is the domain of scum. He's done so twice now. On the other hand, I was prepared to take Cyan's life if he had responded to my counters to his vote in any other way than an unvote. Like, I was prepared to send Cyan packing with some real authority... and then he unvoted. So if I am prepared to destroy someone for responding the opposite way, I must concede that the reaction I got makes me think Cyan is town even if he hasn't done a whole lot. I expected a scum cyan to feign foolishness here, based on the last game where my scum self so heavily defended him, so this is different than expectations. A lot for barely any content I realize, but Cyan is a person who frequently occupies my mind.
Two of you I legitimately forgot were in the game, even, and I am not a man usually prone to forgetfulness. Now people who post less often but give massive effort within those posts are of course fine as well, but these guys haven't done that. 9 players!
Now Cyan I'm already starting to work on, and I have flat out told Hooker and Annorax that they need to explain themselves more, let's see if they take the previous hints.
Work in the morning, the other four will be discussed tomorrow.
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ok chris, you say you are an exception to all your own scum hunting rules
but that is now twice you have directly done something you claim proves hunt is town to you.
this can't be a coincidence. you are too thorough of a player. especially so soon after i called you on it.
i still think hunt is scum, but: unvote huntzilla
Context # 1: Hunt said he was pulling an Iso. Thus 'invoking the name of Iso' by referencing Iso's stellar play history.
Context 2: I referred to Iso as our host, a factual statement. I was not invoking him in any way in reference to his player ability.
Now I think the difference is insanely evident, but please tell me otherwise.
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i seem to have used card tag instead of bold. so just to reiterate: vote sir chris
I don't want to vote Chris for Day one. He's one of the few really active players. I'm able to gleam more evidence off of him at the moment than all these lurkers. After day one finishes I will likely start hunting lurkers.
And what have you learned from me, precisely, TappingStones?
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ok chris, you say you are an exception to all your own scum hunting rules
but that is now twice you have directly done something you claim proves hunt is town to you.
this can't be a coincidence. you are too thorough of a player. especially so soon after i called you on it.
i still think hunt is scum, but: unvote huntzilla
vote sir chris
You state that this is twice that he has done this.
What was the first thing?
He did not like that I changed my vote on you when I noted rigidity is a scum tell.
I mean apparently my master plan is to do things that I say I think make others town while saying they don't make me town in any way because I have a highly advanced scum game but still expect people to think I am town for them despite me saying that is literally not the case at all and anyone who has experience with my scum game would quickly vouch for the fact that it is very advanced so I mean... I don't know what end game Tom thinks I have here!
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I am remembering how you kind of forgot to show your work with Plows. You had claimed to have read and had a progressive opinion but you didn't actually document it.
Also I'd like for Sepi to re-explain those similarities to me because he is far more aggressive this game than that game.
Ah yes, I remember. I didn't talk about my buddy Plow while he was the heat of discussion, and that gave me away later on.
How does that compare to Sepi/Hunt here? Don't you need a flip first to do analysis like that?
I am remembering how you kind of forgot to show your work with Plows. You had claimed to have read and had a progressive opinion but you didn't actually document it.
Also I'd like for Sepi to re-explain those similarities to me because he is far more aggressive this game than that game.
Ah yes, I remember. I didn't talk about my buddy Plow while he was the heat of discussion, and that gave me away later on.
How does that compare to Sepi/Hunt here? Don't you need a flip first to do analysis like that?
It's not a one for one situation, just that it reminds me of that because I feel circumstances changed and Sepi never bothered to comment on them when I feel like town naturally would do so there. Perhaps I erred in drawing comparisons to your case because I don't think Hunt is scum at present and might have just added a bit of confusion to it.
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my town block is compiled of the folliwng right now {hooker, tom, cris, me, rhand}
anyone outside of that im willing to lynch
Asking others to "tell me what to think".
You are comfortable voting for nearly all the players in the game outside yourself and 3 other players.
Are you lazy scum hoping to make it through Day 1?
right now yes.
There's only one question here. Did you just confess to being scum? (I wish the game was this easy lol)
He totally read the line above the question as a question, because I did too at first.
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Tordeck: see the post in this topic just before that vote of your for a pretty obvious conclusion.
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I did. And any smart player would have edited the quote to reflect only the part they were responding too seeing that admission to the second part is just plain dumb.
I did. And any smart player would have edited the quote to reflect only the part they were responding too seeing that admission to the second part is just plain dumb.
He hasn't put much effort to the game. His posts are reflective of that. I don't see this as a slip.
Well I mean if you think "right now yes" makes sense for "are you scum" and not "those are the ones you're willing to vote for" perhaps you shouldn't judge what is 'smart.'
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As promised, the rest of my thoughts on the people who don't post enough:
Oh, and commas denote different posts if that wasn't obvious. Also as a reminder, I started from the least and worked my way up to the top because why not? It's more interesting to read these out of order IMO!
Tordeck: 14 – Posts regret over missing RVS, questions HP's comments about learning things during RVS, concurs that this is an odd start and admits to being a bit lost, votes Jobie for noob hunting, doesn't want to game the setup and expresses his dislike for what he sees as Jobie's instant back pedal on Tom after being voted, doesn't believe that Jobie unvoted Tom on his own, asks Tom who we should be discussing, responds to TappingStones's comment about asking others what to think, makes a post about johnny and rhand's supposed slap fight calling it town on town and expresses a continued dislike for noob hunting while glaring Cyan's way. Responds to my questions, votes ika for his supposed slip, discusses what smart players would do.
Okay so my take away from this is that there is almost no chance Tordeck/Stones are scum together. One there at the most. I didn't realize the context of Stones' post about asking others what to think was so utterly benign on Tordeck's part. He literally just asked Tom who he thought we should be focusing on in a manner that I found very good and engaging of a newer player. I don't think Tordeck is using his vote very wisely so far, but he shows genuine care for the game which is a positive. He has taken plenty of stances early on which I tend to like, and of course I've already mentioned that I like Stones as scum currently which looks very good on him. Also in the time it took me to get to this he has crossed the Iso threshold which is good, he just needs to keep it up.
By the way as someone who just got out of a very successful campaign with a scum Jobie I can tell you he isn't one to panic after one vote, Tordeck. You may not be a fan of meta, but it'd be weird for him to panic like that as scum in my estimation.
Jobie: 10 – RVS vote for me, RVS greeting of me, votes Tom citing he is up for a newb wagon, unvotes Tom noting it served its purpose and answers Void's question, comments about his stance on me and defends me as well as calling Tom weird, notes he assumes my town game is equal to my scum game and notes his displeasure at day ones in general.
Despite only having ten posts Jobie has provided some worthwhile content, even if it is just a little. Jobie is an interesting read because I just had a chance to examine his scum game in vivid detail the last game. I tend to be quite adept at seeing scum games from game to game when it involves my buddies. So I will just say I hope Jobie posts more so I can get more of a bead on him, as his scum game is gifted enough that my town vibes from him so far aren't going to sate me when it comes to him.
HookerPunch: 10 – Confirms, talks about layers of the game randomly, was looking for a specific piece of information apparently, more nonsense, more nonsense, request for flavor, more nonsense, claims to be on the same page as hunt, claims to have used the time tested method of hax to be on a similar wavelength to hunt, requests my flavor name, pouts about being ignored by Chris-senpai (note: I realize I am not actually HookerPunch's senpai)
Okay HookerPunch has a really, super good chance of being town. Like there's just some plays scum don't tend to do, and useless with a side of eccentric tends to firmly be in the realm of town. I'd have to examine Hooker's past to be assured of this, not something I am quite prepared to do, but yeah off the walls random is just something that you'd need a very confident scum game to pull off. If anyone with extensive history with HP wants to tell me about the time they led a game to the slaughter while cackling evilly is, of course, welcome to do so. But early indications is town. That being said, I am not going to be around forever to give my input on this matter so now that you've done enough to show your towniness to me perhaps it is best for you to step away from the cloud of mystery you have built yourself and start contributing in a logical and well put together manner. People I think are town tend to fall over quite a bit when I am no longer around. Just a thought.
TappingStones: 10 – Confirm post, suggests we get the game on track and asks for reads, cites being new to mafia and isn't sure what the number of scum would be, notes tom asking others what he should think is strange, expresses a dislike of tom's careful tone, barns Jobie's note about me being useful to keep around and expresses that Tordeck appears to be doing busy work and asks for a town/scum read on the game, has the infamous post that ika said 'yes' to, comments that by saying yes it is 'bad', notes that he doesn't think ika's post is a slip.
Okay so just from that I think TappingStones is scum who someone tried to coach pre-game but didn't do a reasonable job with. Here are the things that concern me about the brief posting history, in order of post:
1) Wants to get the game on track and asks for reads, but has posted absolutely nothing substantial in the reads department himself aside from not liking Tom's word usage. Even the questioning of ika isn't very probative. He says things, sure, but they... don't have a point. Instead of asking why so many people are vote worthy in ika's eyes he asks him if he is scum instead. It lacks a basic game solving sense here, really. He posts filler instead of trying to get into ika's head and figure him out.
2) He asked for a town/scum read on the game from Tordeck, meaning he inherently finds value in this sort of information, but has not provided it himself. Comes off to me as someone who is just saying random things to appear invested without actually doing anything. Ironic considering he accused Tordeck of doing busy work. I am willing to say that if Stones is scum then Tordeck is probably not a buddy, that sort of swipe about busy work is not something a new scum says about a scumbuddy. It's too sneaky, I think.
3) Just the things that Stones has stated they find valuable and the lack of that from them so far. Sure it's still early, but we've gotten previous little here in terms of any sort of real insight. Values someone like me who will dig, doesn't do it himself. Wants someone else's town/scum list, I couldn't tell you the first thing about his list. It's just jarring when seeing the posts that have been made that he expects so much more out of others than himself.
4) Kind of comes off like he knows more than he should about mafia stuff. I don't know how new this person is, to be fair I guess, but if you are questioning your ability to pin down the scum number, it makes me wonder why I am seeing value judgments about other players. Just comes off as coached, like I said.
Feel free to respond to any of these concerns, TappingStones. Better yet, reveal your thoughts to us instead of expecting others to do so at your request, if you are town it will make you many times more valuable and much harder to lynch. If you're scum your current course is going to end poorly as well, so you might as well pray to a deity of your choice that you pull something out by being active. I believe in you!
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chris makes some great points here. certainly worth reading and giving thought to at face value.
but then go back again and think about why a scum chris might have said them (because its quite apparent he isnt posting on a whim)
the thing that most stands out to me is the theme of talking about his own value to town. he mentions it at least twice and alludes to the unlikelihood of him being around long.
paraphrased: "town gets worse when i'm gone. scum will kill me soon."
now i have no doubt thats true.
if chris were town, mafia would be dumb to let him stick around for too long.
he's clearly one the better, most active players in this game.
but to me, this reads scum. he sure wants us to know that his death will be bad for town.
You know Tom before making new points it is usually considered fair play to respond when previous points you've made against someone have been refuted.
He did not like that I changed my vote on you when I noted rigidity is a scum tell.
I mean apparently my master plan is to do things that I say I think make others town while saying they don't make me town in any way because I have a highly advanced scum game but still expect people to think I am town for them despite me saying that is literally not the case at all and anyone who has experience with my scum game would quickly vouch for the fact that it is very advanced so I mean... I don't know what end game Tom thinks I have here!
Please acknowledge and give you input into my thoughts on the matter.
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the first one, sure. theres a difference.
i didnt know the difference (or that iso was a good player) but you successfully pointed out the difference.
don't think its enough to change anything.
as for what your master plan is, i think your plan is to win.
i think youre attempting subliminal messaging. and quite masterfully so.
but its having the opposite effect on me.
Well, when I noted that Hunt invoked Iso I mentioned that it was a ballsy move. It was such because he was comparing himself to one of the most revered town players this community has. I said it was a town move because I didn't think scum make such a comparison going after me like he did. While mine was simply bringing him up for the purposes of post count. I think that's quite the change, considering it was the foundation of your vote on me.
Of course my plan is to win! Everyone's plan should be to win, it's tragic if that's not the case. I will say that you are quite the clever man Tom, because your accusation of me is not wrong, you merely do not understand my intended target audience is scum with the words I say. But yeah, this seals it for me, that level of insight for a new player can only come from town. Good work, Tom, you've done something every new player should do and established yourself as town.
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Posting at stupid o'clock in the morning is no good.
I still don't like this situation at all, Hunt and Chris both look like scum to me, but Chris got to that point first & I'd love to see a claim from him.
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Needless to say, I won't be claiming at your behest at this time.
But since the only thing you posted about me has been proven to be posted at stupid o'clock, as you say, you might want to provide more insight than "I don't like this situation at all." If you have a problem with me that is fine, but show your work.
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my town block is compiled of the folliwng right now {hooker, tom, cris, me, rhand}
anyone outside of that im willing to lynch
I don't actually know where Huntzilla's got to where I've got because I had to use what is more or less "Hax" and extrapolation to get to where I am.
Or, to put it another way, What is your flavor name?
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Anyone? You're willing to lynch 11 people?
Since when do you use wording like "bull*****" in mafia Hunt?
Explain me how getting coached would work? Are you saying scum has daychat?
Also, if you think he is getting coached, then why are so many of his posts fence-sitty? Wouldn't the coach tell him not to do that?
I believe fence-sitting with newbs is more a town-tell than a scum-tell too. Town!newbs honestly have no clue what to look for in scum. Scum!newbs would realize that they need to have an opinion and fake one.
I was admittedly a little heated when I was writing the quote wall, as I was fired up about Chris. When I get heated I swear a little more. I apologize if it offends you Rhand.
So the coaching idea was predicated upon the assumption that scum had day chat. Looking at the OP, nothing rules this out or states it as obviously true.
I do feel your point about them coaching the fence-sitty nature of the posts so that it DIDN'T look that way is correct, but looking back, T-Slog does TRY to get more firm after I had mentioned it. This points to it not being coached, unless the coach hadn't noticed it until I brought it up either. I feel that is more null than anything, because it just creates a WIFOM argument.
But the one question I have out of all that is would new scum always need to have to fake an opinion? Why couldn't they just be "too dumb to scum" as I have seen it put? I don't believe it to be the case, especially if they are being coached. But why is that not a possibility in your eyes?
1. The post was talking to Tom, although tom was actually addressing Rhand.
2. Sorry i actually dont see the differences you are saying are there, if you are talking about activity levels then yeah there is a difference there but i dont feel the tone or feel has changed much there.
3. I didnt comment further on your hunt case because i didnt feel there was anything i could add, further more yes my original stance was due to the white knighting but as things progressed i became more and more secured on my read, yes i didnt go "Oh hey guys my read on Huntz is still scum because of X" all over the thread but the fact that i have not changed my vote at all and have even pointed out to tom that im seeing similarities with Huntz current game and BD to be enough to show where my read on him is moving.
@Hunt:
1. Chill and back off, the amount of AtE wording and tone you are bringing is through the roof, I really dont think i have done anything to deserve wording such as '*****ing' and 'bull*****', specially when you should have enough play experience with me to know my thought process and posting patterns.
2. In regards to your whole "back it up dammit!" - yeah fat chance on that, you know i never do the whole PBPAs (for a variety of reasons but mainly lack of attention span), no im not going to talk about your neutral game because i was not a part of it, i have no hands on experience with it and as such i do not use those games as meta reasoning (same applies to town games, and yes thats also how i deal with meta as a whole, if i dont have hands on experience with it i dont use it).
3. You are going 'sepi jumped on me for a contrived reason' but it isnt, your 'scum debut' is the only game i can draw from and its the only one i will consider because its the only one i have had experience with, that again is something you should be aware of (i am pretty sure i have explained my stance on meta at some point in almost every game i have been on), you are ignoring behavior that you should be aware of when dealing with me and your emotion driven engagement shows you dont feel an actual calm and collected argument would help you, you are acting exactly like i would expect you to behave after your BD game, that game gave me a good mental behavioral frame of you and thats what im using when dealing with your actions.
4. Seriously dude chill that level of aggression is grossly misdirected and really unsportmanlike
Asking others to "tell me what to think".
You are comfortable voting for nearly all the players in the game outside yourself and 3 other players.
Are you lazy scum hoping to make it through Day 1?
Rhand do you remember how I sniffed you out in xkcd mafia in regards to your read of Plow? If you can step outside of yourself for a moment, do you see the same similarities I am between Sepi's defense and your scum defense that game?
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Also I'd like for Sepi to re-explain those similarities to me because he is far more aggressive this game than that game.
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
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relevant quote, from 249:
maybe you'd be more careful about that, but that sort of seems like a slip
I will concede however that I am not rigid as either faction. I consider myself an exception to just about every single scum hunting rule I lay down, and will leave it to others to catch that side of me one day since I, of course, do not have to ever scum hunt myself.
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Again, I am sorry if I offended you with the language. This is very serious and sincere, I got a little heated dealing with Sir chris and lost my head a bit. I do not mean to offend you in any way Sepi.
That said, I am not sorry about the aggression. Whereas you may be actually offended by the words, the thoughts behind them remain the same, and the belief in them pointing to you being scummy does not change either.
1. Agreed, this part I apologize for, got a bit carried away, and I do have quite a familiarity with you through many many games at this point.
2. That is fine if you don't want to do a whole PBPA, or even quote. At this point, show me the logic behind the comparison. Put it into words. Because I think you were just trying to tie me tenuously to my scum game to discredit me and find a way to justify me remaining as scum. I don't believe there is a single tie to it at all. This is what I mean by contrived.
3. I get your "meta" reasoning. But you still aren't showing me how they are tied. Simply that I was scum in that one and you think I am again. That does not prove anything. That is a made up opinion by you. The argument is calm and collected now. I was heated, but you can't use that as your shield now. Stop hiding.
4. Again, this feels tacked on in order to try and discredit further because you don't have a case at all and you know your logic has been called out. I am not being unsportsmanlike. Calling you lying scum is completely within the realm of the game.
I agree that this makes the most sense.
Still not a huge fan this second. Gotta give me more time to relax on it though, I saw red and it's gonna take a while before I can let it go on either Chris or TomS.
Sepi is doing a good job of helping it along.
right now yes.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
The short of it is I am not going to flavor claim for someone who has posted nothing and given no reason for any of the shallow stances.
Actually wouldn't flavor claim for anyone, mind you.
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2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
This is a painfully bad vote. Vote Annorax
This is bad.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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Personal stuff. I should probably replace out, honestly, but I've only ever requested replacement once, due to the Mod being demonstrably awful. Plus I really want to redeem my performance for last game. This game is also hard for me to analyze for some reason.
So I made a couple of points about Sepi and voted him. What did you think about what I have said? Also while the vote you noted of Anno's is bad, what is the scum mindset there?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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Okay time to make posts that make scum have to kill me night 1.
Okay so I am a big believer that effort is often more important than sheer skill when it comes to winning as town in mafia to a certain extent. I think that, regardless of how good someone might be, if they do not put in a number of posts toward the game it won't matter. As we get to the half way point of day one I think now is an excellent time to hold people accountable and force a greater level of activity upon the game. An inactive game is the easiest type of game for scum to win, and I will cede this point to them only when I am rotting in the ground and not a moment before. My bar isn't particularly high, I just ask that everyone be more active than the host. I think that's pretty fair. So far over half of the game, 9/16 of the players, have failed to meet this low standard of mine:
Iso, glorious host that he is, has 13 posts.
Tordeck: 12
Jobie: 10
HookerPunch: 10
TappingStones: 8
Ika: 7 - votes Hookerpunch, asks Johnny how he is doing, posts town reads on johnny, me, and hooker despite still voting hooker, unvotes hooker when rhand reminds him of that and notes he should get interested in the game...eventually..., says he'll get to it after work, says he had a nice rest and has a town block of hooker, tom, a misspelling of my name not that I am bitter, himself, and rhand, says that yes, he IS willing to vote all those others.
So Ika hasn't done a lot but what's interesting is he has some guts about him when TappingStones questions his willingness to lynch so many people, and I like quite a few of the people he says are town Needs to post a lot more, elaborate, and actually give detail to his thoughts because while I like his cheeky spirit he isn't actually adding anything to the game and if town is just going to be washed away easily.
Annorax: 7 (Confirms and RVS votes Cyan, comments on end of RVS, notes his distaste for RVS and people who try to find use in it, elaborates further on his distaste for RVS information hunting, answers Void's question about scum count with a few different theories, votes me with some interesting reasoning, concedes his reasoning on me was due to stupidity but presses on against me, notes a love for a claim)
So despite only having 7 posts there has been some meat to Annorax's posts. He discusses RVS a bit and, while perhaps not probative to the game state, is something I actually agree with and contributes something to conversation. Full disclosure I started with the least posts and am working my way up, so after seeing Void/Hans' lack of content this is a nice departure from that. I can't help but wonder if someone on the scum board talked about Hunt being new ,he is relatively new after all, and Annorax misunderstanding how new and trying to call me out on it, and then realizing that he misinterpreted it and backed away like a kid who touched a stove. Just a theory though, doesn't have to be true, but one that at the very least makes sense. Annorax if you want to put my mind at ease, post more content.
Hans: 6 (Confirms, literally says sup, let's us know kpaca is town randomly, asks Hunt about post 53, talks about illness keeping him from posting a week ago, wants a mass claim 3 days ago)
Okay so post 53 is Hunt saying sup back to Hans, so Hans has literally done nothing this game aside from quite randomly suggest a mass claim and calling kpaca town for whatever reason. Hans remember when you helped me win Avant Garde mafia because of your extremely poor town play that was not redeemable in basically any way? I don't think you enjoy being a burden to the game, and I don't say this to be mean, but stop being a burden to your team mates regardless of faction. I feel sympathy if you're sick, truly, but if there is no end in sight to your illness we have two capable players who I am sure are excited to play. You need to give us more if you can Hans, or concede your right to play. This is a pattern with you now in my estimation. Sorry if this is harsh, but I enjoy winning and playing with players who are willing (or if you are very ill for this long, capable) of participating at somewhat of a decent level.
Void: 6 (Confirm post, comments about weak RVS, Asks how many scum there are, claims it is an important question, votes tom because I guess tom didn't answer his question, says post is coming tomorrow....3 days ago)
I like the name Void for this guy because his content has been exactly that. A question he never goes into detail about, a vote with no real backing, and a promise for content broken. I mean he doesn't have to be scum, but if he isn't talk about easy lynch bait. You need to be a lot better than this in the second half of the game day if you don't just want to drop dead at some point.
Cyan: 5 (Confirm post, his vote of me, his unvote of me, his vote of Annorax, his explanation of his lack of investment thus far)
Now I have two warring thoughts on Cyan in his brief time with us. One is I don't like it when people vote based off... “bad.” I think I said somewhere else that voting someone for being bad is the domain of scum. He's done so twice now. On the other hand, I was prepared to take Cyan's life if he had responded to my counters to his vote in any other way than an unvote. Like, I was prepared to send Cyan packing with some real authority... and then he unvoted. So if I am prepared to destroy someone for responding the opposite way, I must concede that the reaction I got makes me think Cyan is town even if he hasn't done a whole lot. I expected a scum cyan to feign foolishness here, based on the last game where my scum self so heavily defended him, so this is different than expectations. A lot for barely any content I realize, but Cyan is a person who frequently occupies my mind.
Two of you I legitimately forgot were in the game, even, and I am not a man usually prone to forgetfulness. Now people who post less often but give massive effort within those posts are of course fine as well, but these guys haven't done that. 9 players!
Now Cyan I'm already starting to work on, and I have flat out told Hooker and Annorax that they need to explain themselves more, let's see if they take the previous hints.
Work in the morning, the other four will be discussed tomorrow.
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ok chris, you say you are an exception to all your own scum hunting rules
but that is now twice you have directly done something you claim proves hunt is town to you.
this can't be a coincidence. you are too thorough of a player. especially so soon after i called you on it.
i still think hunt is scum, but:
unvote huntzilla
vote sir chris
i seem to have used card tag instead of bold. so just to reiterate:
vote sir chris
Context 2: I referred to Iso as our host, a factual statement. I was not invoking him in any way in reference to his player ability.
Now I think the difference is insanely evident, but please tell me otherwise.
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I don't want to vote Chris for Day one. He's one of the few really active players. I'm able to gleam more evidence off of him at the moment than all these lurkers. After day one finishes I will likely start hunting lurkers.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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You state that this is twice that he has done this.
What was the first thing?
I mean apparently my master plan is to do things that I say I think make others town while saying they don't make me town in any way because I have a highly advanced scum game but still expect people to think I am town for them despite me saying that is literally not the case at all and anyone who has experience with my scum game would quickly vouch for the fact that it is very advanced so I mean... I don't know what end game Tom thinks I have here!
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
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2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Ah yes, I remember. I didn't talk about my buddy Plow while he was the heat of discussion, and that gave me away later on.
How does that compare to Sepi/Hunt here? Don't you need a flip first to do analysis like that?
There's only one question here. Did you just confess to being scum? (I wish the game was this easy lol)
It's not a one for one situation, just that it reminds me of that because I feel circumstances changed and Sepi never bothered to comment on them when I feel like town naturally would do so there. Perhaps I erred in drawing comparisons to your case because I don't think Hunt is scum at present and might have just added a bit of confusion to it.
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2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
He totally read the line above the question as a question, because I did too at first.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
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2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I'm trying to figure out how anyone could make such a bonehead play. I can't figure out if that was a slip or just plain stupidity.
In light of the how lurkhard he has been so far and this whatever the **** it is that some pressure needs to be applied.
unvote, vote ika42
The Family
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
The Family
He hasn't put much effort to the game. His posts are reflective of that. I don't see this as a slip.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Oh, and commas denote different posts if that wasn't obvious. Also as a reminder, I started from the least and worked my way up to the top because why not? It's more interesting to read these out of order IMO!
Tordeck: 14 – Posts regret over missing RVS, questions HP's comments about learning things during RVS, concurs that this is an odd start and admits to being a bit lost, votes Jobie for noob hunting, doesn't want to game the setup and expresses his dislike for what he sees as Jobie's instant back pedal on Tom after being voted, doesn't believe that Jobie unvoted Tom on his own, asks Tom who we should be discussing, responds to TappingStones's comment about asking others what to think, makes a post about johnny and rhand's supposed slap fight calling it town on town and expresses a continued dislike for noob hunting while glaring Cyan's way. Responds to my questions, votes ika for his supposed slip, discusses what smart players would do.
Okay so my take away from this is that there is almost no chance Tordeck/Stones are scum together. One there at the most. I didn't realize the context of Stones' post about asking others what to think was so utterly benign on Tordeck's part. He literally just asked Tom who he thought we should be focusing on in a manner that I found very good and engaging of a newer player. I don't think Tordeck is using his vote very wisely so far, but he shows genuine care for the game which is a positive. He has taken plenty of stances early on which I tend to like, and of course I've already mentioned that I like Stones as scum currently which looks very good on him. Also in the time it took me to get to this he has crossed the Iso threshold which is good, he just needs to keep it up.
By the way as someone who just got out of a very successful campaign with a scum Jobie I can tell you he isn't one to panic after one vote, Tordeck. You may not be a fan of meta, but it'd be weird for him to panic like that as scum in my estimation.
Jobie: 10 – RVS vote for me, RVS greeting of me, votes Tom citing he is up for a newb wagon, unvotes Tom noting it served its purpose and answers Void's question, comments about his stance on me and defends me as well as calling Tom weird, notes he assumes my town game is equal to my scum game and notes his displeasure at day ones in general.
Despite only having ten posts Jobie has provided some worthwhile content, even if it is just a little. Jobie is an interesting read because I just had a chance to examine his scum game in vivid detail the last game. I tend to be quite adept at seeing scum games from game to game when it involves my buddies. So I will just say I hope Jobie posts more so I can get more of a bead on him, as his scum game is gifted enough that my town vibes from him so far aren't going to sate me when it comes to him.
HookerPunch: 10 – Confirms, talks about layers of the game randomly, was looking for a specific piece of information apparently, more nonsense, more nonsense, request for flavor, more nonsense, claims to be on the same page as hunt, claims to have used the time tested method of hax to be on a similar wavelength to hunt, requests my flavor name, pouts about being ignored by Chris-senpai (note: I realize I am not actually HookerPunch's senpai)
Okay HookerPunch has a really, super good chance of being town. Like there's just some plays scum don't tend to do, and useless with a side of eccentric tends to firmly be in the realm of town. I'd have to examine Hooker's past to be assured of this, not something I am quite prepared to do, but yeah off the walls random is just something that you'd need a very confident scum game to pull off. If anyone with extensive history with HP wants to tell me about the time they led a game to the slaughter while cackling evilly is, of course, welcome to do so. But early indications is town. That being said, I am not going to be around forever to give my input on this matter so now that you've done enough to show your towniness to me perhaps it is best for you to step away from the cloud of mystery you have built yourself and start contributing in a logical and well put together manner. People I think are town tend to fall over quite a bit when I am no longer around. Just a thought.
TappingStones: 10 – Confirm post, suggests we get the game on track and asks for reads, cites being new to mafia and isn't sure what the number of scum would be, notes tom asking others what he should think is strange, expresses a dislike of tom's careful tone, barns Jobie's note about me being useful to keep around and expresses that Tordeck appears to be doing busy work and asks for a town/scum read on the game, has the infamous post that ika said 'yes' to, comments that by saying yes it is 'bad', notes that he doesn't think ika's post is a slip.
Okay so just from that I think TappingStones is scum who someone tried to coach pre-game but didn't do a reasonable job with. Here are the things that concern me about the brief posting history, in order of post:
1) Wants to get the game on track and asks for reads, but has posted absolutely nothing substantial in the reads department himself aside from not liking Tom's word usage. Even the questioning of ika isn't very probative. He says things, sure, but they... don't have a point. Instead of asking why so many people are vote worthy in ika's eyes he asks him if he is scum instead. It lacks a basic game solving sense here, really. He posts filler instead of trying to get into ika's head and figure him out.
2) He asked for a town/scum read on the game from Tordeck, meaning he inherently finds value in this sort of information, but has not provided it himself. Comes off to me as someone who is just saying random things to appear invested without actually doing anything. Ironic considering he accused Tordeck of doing busy work. I am willing to say that if Stones is scum then Tordeck is probably not a buddy, that sort of swipe about busy work is not something a new scum says about a scumbuddy. It's too sneaky, I think.
3) Just the things that Stones has stated they find valuable and the lack of that from them so far. Sure it's still early, but we've gotten previous little here in terms of any sort of real insight. Values someone like me who will dig, doesn't do it himself. Wants someone else's town/scum list, I couldn't tell you the first thing about his list. It's just jarring when seeing the posts that have been made that he expects so much more out of others than himself.
4) Kind of comes off like he knows more than he should about mafia stuff. I don't know how new this person is, to be fair I guess, but if you are questioning your ability to pin down the scum number, it makes me wonder why I am seeing value judgments about other players. Just comes off as coached, like I said.
Feel free to respond to any of these concerns, TappingStones. Better yet, reveal your thoughts to us instead of expecting others to do so at your request, if you are town it will make you many times more valuable and much harder to lynch. If you're scum your current course is going to end poorly as well, so you might as well pray to a deity of your choice that you pull something out by being active. I believe in you!
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
but then go back again and think about why a scum chris might have said them (because its quite apparent he isnt posting on a whim)
the thing that most stands out to me is the theme of talking about his own value to town. he mentions it at least twice and alludes to the unlikelihood of him being around long.
paraphrased: "town gets worse when i'm gone. scum will kill me soon."
now i have no doubt thats true.
if chris were town, mafia would be dumb to let him stick around for too long.
he's clearly one the better, most active players in this game.
but to me, this reads scum. he sure wants us to know that his death will be bad for town.
keeping my vote right where it is.
Please acknowledge and give you input into my thoughts on the matter.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
the first one, sure. theres a difference.
i didnt know the difference (or that iso was a good player) but you successfully pointed out the difference.
don't think its enough to change anything.
as for what your master plan is, i think your plan is to win.
i think youre attempting subliminal messaging. and quite masterfully so.
but its having the opposite effect on me.
Of course my plan is to win! Everyone's plan should be to win, it's tragic if that's not the case. I will say that you are quite the clever man Tom, because your accusation of me is not wrong, you merely do not understand my intended target audience is scum with the words I say. But yeah, this seals it for me, that level of insight for a new player can only come from town. Good work, Tom, you've done something every new player should do and established yourself as town.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player