I think you need to read the game more carefully KJ.
I don't know how you've managed to believe I am still pushing for the mass claim. I flat out said I was only about 50-50, bringing it up because I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or bad, and I wanted to see reactions more than push the mass claim.
The whole reason I posted that breakdown was that I wasn't going to push it anymore because BF pointed out a huge flaw I hadn't thought of on top of it all.
You miss all of this and push my reasoning as good, but also try to deflect back onto me when you get flak for it.
Add KJ to the list of all-out attack possibilities.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Wheat, I'm not that dense; I asked KJ in #204 how the benefit of the ATK claim outweighs the consequences, in his mind, and he's deliberately dodged that question twice
why do you see his claim ideas as having "pretty good points," and why do you think he didn't commit to any (or none) of them despite being of the mind to say "YAY RULES Now to figure out how to exploit them" at the top of the post? and do you personally agree with any of the ideas?
Here's the thing: I never said that was the case. I never said that of any of them, but at least the others were my personal thoughts. I copypasta'd the ATK one because I saw the points as as relevent.
There's as reason I'm not pushing any of them: because the benefits don't outweigh the risks. All of them give scum too much of an advantage, IMO.
your next argument is that liking != thinking benefits outweigh consequences
not buying that for a second: nowhere before #396 did you say or suggest you thought the claim ideas -- both KK's and yours -- were more consequential than beneficial, which runs completely contrary to the attitude you assumed in your opening post (laying down possibilities for stat claims you "liked" and encouraging further discussion on those claims)
you can't hide behind semantics, because the dissonant shift in attitude on the topic of stat claims is not rational townie behavior and exposes your opening post as empty busywork and a half-baked attempt to look townie without following through
also, lemme respond to you with only previous quotes of mine
But that's not the issue I have with you here: You claimed that the SUBSTANCE of my ATK part is scummy. Nor my tone, or any other thing that I actually added to it, but the substance, which is what I took from KK.
it's a dissonant mindset: he plainly says he wants to break the game open and lays out potential ways to do that (from both KK and himself), but isn't emotionally invested in any of them -- and when I press him on the ATK claim idea a second time, he harps on me attacking him for it instead of attacking KK, when this is an opportunity to defend an idea he said he likes and should be invested in
- you tacked on other stat-claim suggestions without committing to any of them or concluding that stat-claiming isn't a good strategy, despite going into the post with a mindset of wanting to figure out how to exploit the rules -- i.e. the whole post reeks of empty words and busywork
So, why do you have a town read on KK, given that he seems to think that claiming attack has more possible benefits than risks?
I think KK is town; I'm not wasting words on attacking him for his proposal beyond saying it's bad
you, I'm not sold on:
- you're more experienced than KK
- you parroted his ATK-claim suggestion without original thought
- you tacked on other stat-claim suggestions without committing to any of them or concluding that stat-claiming isn't a good strategy, despite going into the post with a mindset of wanting to figure out how to exploit the rules -- i.e. the whole post reeks of empty words and busywork
Benefit:
+We can keep track of our hp and know when a death is coming exactly, so we can choose the likely town to get the hammer bonus xp.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
that benefit is circumstantial and subject to the slightest lie or mistake
I'm looking at this and wondering how, in your mind, your stated pros and cons tip the balance in favor of the former
Here's the post again. You jumped up my ass based on KK's Benefit/Consequences. But you never asked KK about it. It's as if you DON'T ACTUIALLY WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER.
And that's twice you've dodged my question about kk.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
There was nothing I could add to that Attack thing. I could not think of anything.
Also, wait... you think he's town for his attack suggestion? How do you reconcile that with your attack on me?
Your entire point about me is that I never explicitly said "Hey, these won't work" which doesn't make much sense given context. Like I said, if I had found soemthing viable, I would have said.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I think you need to read the game more carefully KJ.
I don't know how you've managed to believe I am still pushing for the mass claim. I flat out said I was only about 50-50, bringing it up because I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or bad, and I wanted to see reactions more than push the mass claim.
The whole reason I posted that breakdown was that I wasn't going to push it anymore because BF pointed out a huge flaw I hadn't thought of on top of it all.
You miss all of this and push my reasoning as good, but also try to deflect back onto me when you get flak for it.
Add KJ to the list of all-out attack possibilities.
I didn't say you're still pushing for it. I'm saying Relm should have given you at least SOME flak for it, but he never did. He just jumped on me.
I may have jumped the gun on the whole "Relm-KK scumteam" thing, but still. Relm is acting weird, and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wheat, I'm not that dense; I asked KJ in #204 how the benefit of the ATK claim outweighs the consequences, in his mind, and he's deliberately dodged that question twice
why do you see his claim ideas as having "pretty good points," and why do you think he didn't commit to any (or none) of them despite being of the mind to say "YAY RULES Now to figure out how to exploit them" at the top of the post? and do you personally agree with any of the ideas?
Here's the thing: I never said that was the case. I never said that of any of them, but at least the others were my personal thoughts. I copypasta'd the ATK one because I saw the points as as relevent.
There's as reason I'm not pushing any of them: because the benefits don't outweigh the risks. All of them give scum too much of an advantage, IMO.
your next argument is that liking != thinking benefits outweigh consequences
not buying that for a second: nowhere before #396 did you say or suggest you thought the claim ideas -- both KK's and yours -- were more consequential than beneficial, which runs completely contrary to the attitude you assumed in your opening post (laying down possibilities for stat claims you "liked" and encouraging further discussion on those claims)
you can't hide behind semantics, because the dissonant shift in attitude on the topic of stat claims is not rational townie behavior and exposes your opening post as empty busywork and a half-baked attempt to look townie without following through
That is my next argument, actually, because ITS TRUE.
If I actually thought it was beneficial, I'd be pushing it, don't you think?
I was exploring possibilities. Like "is there a way we can exploit mechanics this game?" And arrived at "probably not."
Just becasue I didn't outright say "Well, none of these work" doesn't mean that the context doesn't say that. And your overly aggresive stance here, and wanton use of attack words based on basically me not being around for a couple days and calling it dodging (I haven't avoided your questions at all)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And yet, here we are interacting. We're interacted a ton! I went from you putting me in a STUPID no read pile with a STUPID ? That meant STUPID nothing (hi pizza guy you already attacked me so I get to say STUPID for the rest of the day due to your STUPID attack on me you STUPID OOG content which probably makes you STUPID town) to this. You are now engaging in a towering amount of content and engagement with me. For all of my apparently nefarious intent that you are trying to conjure up here, it worked. Like I have literally gotten what I wanted out of you. Our posts are proving that. This is what they call the pudding, DCIII. I don't think people having suspicion of you really mattered. This isn't a typical game, in my view. There is no need to have someone die today. It might be very hard to kill someone today based off of HP numbers for all I know. I wanted more out of you, and the truth is I got it by what I did. Now I have to determine if your counter attack to my prod is a member of town who truly has no idea what my town MO is or a member of scum who is trying to conjure up some fake image of town chris to suit an aggressive counter point. Because if you're scum and if Iso and Chris aren't on your faction, you would need an aggressive counter point if you had any hope of arguing your way out of it. I don't like when I am misrepped, although granted it can be just a misunderstanding, but the beating heart of my town game is forcing interaction. Always has been.
'no town motivation' except that... it was my honest read. Town doesn't need motivation, DCIII. Town just spits their game. I like how you feel I was somehow placating KA when in fact I was extremely annoyed with him. Like no DC, that's just how reads work. You have them and at times you tell them to others to express your game view. Like, jesus christ this is a very warped argument by you. Hurr, what reason would you have for stating who you are suspicious of, what possible motive could there be??? I mean give me a break this is just a completely crap argument by you.
I didn't say that forcing interaction isn't part of your Town game. I said that I didn't think you'd have approached the situation in the way you did, and I still don't. You expressed it offhand to KA about me and say that it was a "threat" but it wasn't a threat, it was a scum read given with others to a different players. I was one of your three scummiest players because I didn't have a lean on my read on you and because I didn't give thoughts on you. But last time we played you were scum and you asked me why I wasn't interacting with you and I told you that I hadn't seen anything that made me concerned yet (woe is me for that call) and that I was just letting you do your thing until I saw something to be concerned with. So I don't even buy that you legit thought I was suspicious for that because you've seen me do it before. It was also a follow up question from KA. You said he wasn't in your top three, then when you were asked who your top three were, you listed me among them. Do I think it's believable that you thought I was suspicious enough to list me in your top three scum reads but that you thought the best way to approach me and determine if that read was correct was to initially mention that you have three top reads to someone else you're suspecting without saying who, wait to be asked who they were, add me in with the other two people, not address me directly, and wait for me to approach you? I do not.
Also, your tonal shift here is dramatic from the posts that led up to this and it's supposed to look indignant, but I don't believe that either. You're a player who thrives off of interaction and you were supposedly playing as you did for the purpose of baiting a reaction out of me. When I approached you, your tone was playful using words like "naughty" and being tongue in cheek with how towny you were being before, and then later, saying that you were a simple man trying to get a simple interaction out of me. But now that I'm giving you my more detailed read on you based on your play, you're annoyed, allegedly because I'm reading you incorrectly and think I'm reading you correctly. But why are you annoyed if you were trying to get me to interact with you to begin with? Isn't the purpose to get a better read on me? I don't buy it. You're a veteran and have people attempting to read you all of the time, I'm sure sometimes they're correct and sometimes their incorrect. The idea that you get this worked up over someone being incorrect feels fake to me and I think you're embellishing.
When we played in Celestial I had an early scum read on you and was wrong based on my read of your play - but your approach there carried none of the same annoyance.
There's more than three scum I'd imagine. See, this is another departure from scum vs town mindset. Scum plot things, they do seeds. They need things in the right order. Town just... should say what's on their mind. Let their honest towniness burst forth and hopefully be seen. You are attempting to subscribe ill intent to unvarnished truth. He wasn't top three with that comment, it showed my suspicion of some others at the time, including you for putting me at a null read which I did my best to yank away from you (success by the way, I totally owned you and got you to interact with me a tons)
The irony of this is that I didn't have a read on you when I made my list - so you're crowing for getting me to give a read on you, but then you're saying it's wrong, but that you owned me because you got me to give a read with your comment. So, if this was true - you successfully got me to go from null reading you to reading you incorrectly? Congratulations?
I don't know how better to explain this - but your stance is hollow here.
Regarding the KA point - you were both suspecting him and you were annoyed at him - but you said that luckily for him, he wasn't in your top three reads. The purpose of a comment like that is an attempt to diffuse the situation. Why would you, as town, suspecting KA, attempt to diffuse that situation? You wouldn't. Even if he wasn't in your top three reads, if you suspected him why take that opportunity when you were going back and forth with him to try to ease his mind? Town don't "need motivation" but you don't see town players who legitimately suspect someone take a pause from an altercation to let the player they're engaging with know that they aren't in their top three suspects list despite still suspecting them - because there's no point to it. It was cutting off interaction with him at the same time you were expressing suspicion of him, which is a counter-intuitive thing to do considering you just told me how much you thrive off of interactions with people.
Scum do that kind of thing all the time, because of any number of reasons, they want to stop the fight, they don't want to look like they're OMGUSing, they want the other person to see that they're being reasonable, they want to appease them and get them to stop suspecting them, etc, etc.
Not everyone is the same to me. I am interacting with Iso, just in the way I choose. I wanted to see his reaction to me calling him stupid for instance. I liked the response. I really wasn't trying to be outright dismissive. I won't ever treat everyone the same in a game, it would be pointless and I wouldn't get what I want out of it. There is also the fact that I have a track record with Iso that I 100% know he'll get around to me eventually, because his track record is to be exhaustive and extremely obsessive. I don't have that memory of you. Also if you are town after this game you are banned from saying sentences like 'town chris would do this, town chris wouldn't do that' you really have no understanding of me if this is not a scum farce, so you should stop acting like you do.
Except, you are familiar with me enough to know I'll call you out when I suspect you (Celestial) and that I am more observant of you when I feel I haven't seen anything alignment telling yet (Wu Tang).
BTW, I'm always going to read you as I read you based on what I think about your play and my knowledge of what I've seen you do, and my opinion of general human/mafia game behavior - not what you tell me I'm allowed to think about your play. You're not going to be able to cow that out of me so you might as well stop with the "how dare you try to read me" nonsense.
Q & A session:
I find hypocrisy scummy because it shows a lack of genuine thought. If you, as town, find something suspicious it should be because YOU genuinely believe it is a scummy action to have taken, so when you do the exact same thing in the context of establishing that suspicion even it is disconcerting to the extreme. This answers both your questions in one.
I think the opposite. Scum are normally very conscious to make sure they don't contradict themselves. Town are much more likely to find something suspicious in someone else and not realize that they themselves are doing it, or not even worry about that fact because they don't have anything to hide and they aren't as worried (if at all) about their own consistency. And, considering your earlier stance that town basically just spit their game and let their towniness shine through, I think you're catering your view here.
@Hans - because I wanted to hear from you on that specifically because of your comment and because of your singling out my focus on BlindFaeth as opposed to others, and still do.
@Blindfaeth - I don't think that you believe that.
Sword-chucks, yo! I'd be like Bruce Lee meets Musashi! Only better! God, I'm so brilliant!
COULD BE A BREADCRUMB
1) Why did you see necessary to highlight Iso's crumbs?
2) Why do you want us to class claim (not to mention full massclaim)? What benefits do see in it?
@Wheat - you asked me if I've ever read you as town, which implies that I often read you as scum (and has a subtext that I'm usually wrong). What are you basing that impression on?
KK - "doe eyed" information spew
Relm - similar takes as mine, tone
Hunt - Naturally inquisitive to Iso
Meg - not elaborating on this one
Sep - naturally playful
Hans - "Bro."
Bur - newish player proposing mass claim
Cantrip - cop play (although I really didn't like the rest of Cantrip outside of that)
Iso - like top three reads, play, push
Gentleman Johnny - sloppy
HP - not elaborating on this one
?
Sir Chris
MisterSins
Mojito
Players who haven't posted
Eeeeh.
Chemtrails - "can't argue with that" comment felt self-conscious
KA - Sir Chris/Gentleman Johnny interaction (tip-toeing around calling GJ a hypocrite but not drawing any conclusions from it)
Wheat
Wheat - pending answer to my question above
More Suspicious Than Wheat!
Dante - awkward. apologizing, validating people for suspecting him, "good guy" posting.
Blindfaeth - #57 "good guy" posting, tentative language around reads, approach to KK
*hits self with a zombiestrike weapon to avoid the effects of Death*
Not so great for my ability to heal, but I don't have enough stuff collected to make a Deathproof armor.
The sudden hunger for brainnnnsss not really that different from my usual.
I read the rules, looks like we're voting by an attack and HP system.
Don't attack me, I'm ever so vital to this team.
Weren't you a part of Mafia Championship games?
If what point do you see in telling "don't attack me, I'm vital" everyone? What are your current thoughts on the game?
To answer your question to me in there Bur... I did it because I felt like it.
Attack: Bur
This whole post is crap, and is the only one you have all game. I just got off Animal Mafia where you would do this, and you turned out to be super scum. Not letting it happen again.
I'll talk to you post-game about how wrong you are DCIII, it's kind of a waste of my time at this point.
Chemtrails do you sign up to actually play the game of mafia or what? You've made zero contribution to this game. I don't get it. Why sign up if you aren't going to play the game?
Now in its proper thread.
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I mean Chris you're saying that you thought I was scummy for not giving a read on you, that you wanted to get me to share thoughts on you and that you approached it via being probed by KA, and now you're acting frustrated because I have a read on you thats wrong.
There's a disconnect there for someone who was supposedly intending to try to mix it up and it's one of the reasons I think that emotion is feigned.
You're basically saying "how could you not have a read on me?" And then following it up with, "I'm outraged, how could you presume to have a read on me?"
But, yeah, if you are Town I'll have a few post game thoughts for you as well.
I am not actually frustrated by you in of itself. You are just continuing a trend of misreads of me that spans multiple sites that I find particularly vexing. I think I am allowed to be frustrated when you are accusing me of not only being scum, but fake as well. However I got what I wanted out of you in terms of reading you. I think there is genuine town thought process behind your attacks on me so that's nice. I just am more than tired of people thinking there is some mythical town chris that only acts a certain way, that was what my frustration was about, not the fact you decided to express a read. Could have done without the attack before I had a chance to respond to you again, but what can you do.
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Oki... I'm going by gut so far on this game. And I do apologize for not being more helpful. There are a lot of new people and patterns to keep track of here.
Yeah, why would you bother to interact at all with someone before deciding to attack them when you can't take it back. Why not just attack the person with the most attacks so far.
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It looks to me like they were in chronological before the last two attacks got added to the list, now that I look more closely. Iso was the first to attack.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The problem we have right now is not enough people are investing into the game, and I somehow doubt all of those people are scum. It gives scum either an excuse to post less (but still more than these people) to blend in with these people, or maybe worse allows scum to be good, active members who can turn towards the people not contributing as easy targets. Chemtrails, Mojito, I don't remember pizza guy doing anything other than voting for me. I am sure there are more if I went back and looked. Like, we need 24 people playing mafia if we want to do this right.
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I agree. Unfortunately, I'm not so inclined to jump head-first into the fray at the moment. I'm still trying to find the middle ground between "post aggressively at the beginning of the game so people lynch you later but actually consider your opinion once you're dead" and "drive-by post in early game to solve the endgame but get mislynched". Maybe the points I make aren't concise enough but I've grown really weary of quotewall battles because they're time-consuming (something I don't have a lot of as-is) and have been brushing off attempts to engage me deeply because I don't feel like giving scum the excuse they need to attack me, I work better with flips, and half the time, I can hardly remember what's happened in a game any more these days. I tend to go more off of a "gut memory" - i.e. remember how someone made me feel, and maybe one or two things they did that made me feel that way - but even when I launch into a later-game full assault, I just haven't been as listened to as I'd like to be.
I've been burned out on Mafia for a while, now, but I keep joining games because mods need "just one more player" or they have an awesome setup that I don't want to regret missing out on. I really need a hiatus, at least for playing, after this game. (I do plan to finish up Season 1 of the League, though, and maybe limit myself to League games for a while after that?)
If anyone wants to talk about optimizing the strategy behind my play post-game, I'd be amicable to criticism, so long as it's not to the effect of "completely change everything you are doing about Mafia". I generate reactions, I have good reads at SOME point in nearly every game, I draw connections between people quite well, I can analyze wagons and gambits and Nightkills, and I can fend off accusations and handily mislynch as scum, and catch scum as town. I'm just in a rut, I think, where I either veer towards one extreme or the other, and neither is entirely effective in itself - it's gotta be somewhere in between. I think the first step will be knowing when to pick my battles, because as I said, I grow weary of massive exchanges - I just want people to see what I see and lynch accordingly.
Meh. I'm sure I'll get there, eventually. Anyway, this post is basically my excuse for phoning it in until more things happen and I get motivated. Take it as you will.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't see anything wrong, but if you do go into detail and help the rest of us out.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Like, I hate every single one of these posts Iso oh my god.
Am I the only seeing this? Really?
#427 irks me in the sense that it's the sort of impassioned post town make when backed against a corner, but the fact that Iso whips it out of nowhere strikes me as...a touch disingenuous
other than that, no, I don't see anything wrong with Iso
I decided to whip it out before someone called me out on my subpar play this game to explain why I've been so off lately, including The Wall Mafia. Granted, I'm at least doing something as opposed to the players doing nothing, but it's important to me to express why I'm not engaging my scumreads in a diehard manner.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sword-chucks, yo! I'd be like Bruce Lee meets Musashi! Only better! God, I'm so brilliant!
COULD BE A BREADCRUMB
1) Why did you see necessary to highlight Iso's crumbs?
2) Why do you want us to class claim (not to mention full massclaim)? What benefits do see in it?
@Wheat - you asked me if I've ever read you as town, which implies that I often read you as scum (and has a subtext that I'm usually wrong). What are you basing that impression on?
KK - "doe eyed" information spew
Relm - similar takes as mine, tone
Hunt - Naturally inquisitive to Iso
Meg - not elaborating on this one
Sep - naturally playful
Hans - "Bro."
Bur - newish player proposing mass claim
Cantrip - cop play (although I really didn't like the rest of Cantrip outside of that)
Iso - like top three reads, play, push
Gentleman Johnny - sloppy
HP - not elaborating on this one
?
Sir Chris
MisterSins
Mojito
Players who haven't posted
Eeeeh.
Chemtrails - "can't argue with that" comment felt self-conscious
KA - Sir Chris/Gentleman Johnny interaction (tip-toeing around calling GJ a hypocrite but not drawing any conclusions from it)
Wheat
Wheat - pending answer to my question above
More Suspicious Than Wheat!
Dante - awkward. apologizing, validating people for suspecting him, "good guy" posting.
Blindfaeth - #57 "good guy" posting, tentative language around reads, approach to KK
*hits self with a zombiestrike weapon to avoid the effects of Death*
Not so great for my ability to heal, but I don't have enough stuff collected to make a Deathproof armor.
The sudden hunger for brainnnnsss not really that different from my usual.
I read the rules, looks like we're voting by an attack and HP system.
Don't attack me, I'm ever so vital to this team.
Weren't you a part of Mafia Championship games?
If what point do you see in telling "don't attack me, I'm vital" everyone? What are your current thoughts on the game?
To answer your question to me in there Bur... I did it because I felt like it.
Attack: Bur
This whole post is crap, and is the only one you have all game. I just got off Animal Mafia where you would do this, and you turned out to be super scum. Not letting it happen again.
Why is it crap?
Shouldn't you wait for more interactions before going that far?
So, KJ is asserting that:
- He just copied the attack idea from KK;
- Relm is attacking him for the attack idea;
- Relm didn't attack KK for the attack idea, and this is inconsistent.
I'm weirded out by WG's #14 and GJ's #43 for voting when the rules say there aren't any votes, only attacks.
I'm also pinged by KK's #36 where he calls for a mass claim of attack stat. That would be more helpful to the scum. If scum knock out the town with higher attack stat, it would be more difficult to kill the scum. I'm not sure if I distrust him for it but I think it's a bad idea.
I'm also pinged by KK's #36 where he calls for a mass claim of attack stat. That would be more helpful to the scum. If scum knock out the town with higher attack stat, it would be more difficult to kill the scum. I'm not sure if I distrust him for it but I think it's a bad idea.
That is a much better reason not to do it than any I'd thought of.
Please explain as best you can why you thought it was a good idea.
I was about 50-50 on whether it was a good idea or not, and was hoping for opportunistic scum to agree with me. Failing that, I figured I could town clear somebody, which I think I have.
Benefit:
+We can keep track of our hp and know when a death is coming exactly, so we can choose the likely town to get the hammer bonus xp.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
Note that at this point, KoolKoal has already stated that he was only 50-50 to start on the idea, and has seen additional detriments beyond that. In other words, KoolKoal is clearly not supporting the idea at this point. This is what Relm says about it:
Note that this is the first time Relm has posted since the attack massclaim thing got proposed. By this point, the proposal has been basically resolved. Later, Killjoy enters the picture:
Now to figure out how to exploit them. I'll think on that.
I like KK's Attack idea.
Attack re:KK
Benefit:
+We can keep track of our hp and know when a death is coming exactly, so we can choose the likely town to get the hammer bonus xp.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
Speed:
Benefit:
+We can judge where people will fire relative to everyone else, at least N1. Specifically, docs and cops and the like will be able to make better decisions as to when they will fire.
Consequences:
-Would not benefit the town directly, only indirectly.
-Scum might lie, messing up calculations.
HP:
Benefit:
+Late game, we can do some maths and figure out how much damage was done to a person, then if their HP is less than the amount of damage, we catch scum in a lie.
Consequences:
-Without claiming this, scum could potentially try to attack someone on the assumption that they might die, but then they don't. With this claim, scum would know who not to attack, or maybe who to attack more.
Claiming what we leveled up:
Benefit:
+Kind of a mismash of all the other benefits if we assume all people start at our personal values.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
Others I see no benefit to claiming.
If I missed any benefits or Consequences, let me know.
I also dislike DCIII's big post.
Although I also dislike hans' assessment of DCIII's post.
HP hasn't done much, but I remember that being a thing she does early game.
Pizza claims to have been hit with Delay Attack. This is interesting if true, because not a lot of people in this game know him. Only one of those people are likely to target him. (Unless this means he just doesn't have time to read. That could be a thing too)
KJ says that he likes the idea; he further expands on it directly, adding more +/- for claiming other stats. The series of posts after this have already been summarized by Relm.
So this is the real series of events:
- KK posts the mass-attack claim idea and swiftly retracts it;
- Relm makes an offhanded comment after the retraction;
- KJ picks up the already-retracted idea and claims to like it, and expands on it;
- Relm questions this;
- KJ deflects the questioning to KK;
- Relm points out KJ's inconsistency and backtracking;
- KJ attacks Relm, and claims that Relm should have been questioning KK over the same thing.
KJ is trying to hide behind KK and misrepresenting the events, and that retaliatory attack on Relm is clearly anti-town.
So, KJ is asserting that:
- He just copied the attack idea from KK;
- Relm is attacking him for the attack idea;
- Relm didn't attack KK for the attack idea, and this is inconsistent.
I'm weirded out by WG's #14 and GJ's #43 for voting when the rules say there aren't any votes, only attacks.
I'm also pinged by KK's #36 where he calls for a mass claim of attack stat. That would be more helpful to the scum. If scum knock out the town with higher attack stat, it would be more difficult to kill the scum. I'm not sure if I distrust him for it but I think it's a bad idea.
I'm also pinged by KK's #36 where he calls for a mass claim of attack stat. That would be more helpful to the scum. If scum knock out the town with higher attack stat, it would be more difficult to kill the scum. I'm not sure if I distrust him for it but I think it's a bad idea.
That is a much better reason not to do it than any I'd thought of.
Please explain as best you can why you thought it was a good idea.
I was about 50-50 on whether it was a good idea or not, and was hoping for opportunistic scum to agree with me. Failing that, I figured I could town clear somebody, which I think I have.
Benefit:
+We can keep track of our hp and know when a death is coming exactly, so we can choose the likely town to get the hammer bonus xp.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
Note that at this point, KoolKoal has already stated that he was only 50-50 to start on the idea, and has seen additional detriments beyond that. In other words, KoolKoal is clearly not supporting the idea at this point. This is what Relm says about it:
Note that this is the first time Relm has posted since the attack massclaim thing got proposed. By this point, the proposal has been basically resolved. Later, Killjoy enters the picture:
Now to figure out how to exploit them. I'll think on that.
I like KK's Attack idea.
Attack re:KK
Benefit:
+We can keep track of our hp and know when a death is coming exactly, so we can choose the likely town to get the hammer bonus xp.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
Speed:
Benefit:
+We can judge where people will fire relative to everyone else, at least N1. Specifically, docs and cops and the like will be able to make better decisions as to when they will fire.
Consequences:
-Would not benefit the town directly, only indirectly.
-Scum might lie, messing up calculations.
HP:
Benefit:
+Late game, we can do some maths and figure out how much damage was done to a person, then if their HP is less than the amount of damage, we catch scum in a lie.
Consequences:
-Without claiming this, scum could potentially try to attack someone on the assumption that they might die, but then they don't. With this claim, scum would know who not to attack, or maybe who to attack more.
Claiming what we leveled up:
Benefit:
+Kind of a mismash of all the other benefits if we assume all people start at our personal values.
Consequences:
-Scum might learn info about our roles from it.
-Scum might lie about their attack to mess up our calculations (but that might make them easier to catch, so maybe +)
Others I see no benefit to claiming.
If I missed any benefits or Consequences, let me know.
I also dislike DCIII's big post.
Although I also dislike hans' assessment of DCIII's post.
HP hasn't done much, but I remember that being a thing she does early game.
Pizza claims to have been hit with Delay Attack. This is interesting if true, because not a lot of people in this game know him. Only one of those people are likely to target him. (Unless this means he just doesn't have time to read. That could be a thing too)
KJ says that he likes the idea; he further expands on it directly, adding more +/- for claiming other stats. The series of posts after this have already been summarized by Relm.
So this is the real series of events:
- KK posts the mass-attack claim idea and swiftly retracts it;
- Relm makes an offhanded comment after the retraction;
- KJ picks up the already-retracted idea and claims to like it, and expands on it;
- Relm questions this;
- KJ deflects the questioning to KK;
- Relm points out KJ's inconsistency and backtracking;
- KJ attacks Relm, and claims that Relm should have been questioning KK over the same thing.
KJ is trying to hide behind KK and misrepresenting the events, and that retaliatory attack on Relm is clearly anti-town.
This whole post is crap, and is the only one you have all game. I just got off Animal Mafia where you would do this, and you turned out to be super scum. Not letting it happen again.
Why is it crap?
Shouldn't you wait for more interactions before going that far?
The questions do not relate to the alignments of the people they are asked to. He asks me for example about my obvious joke about massclaiming and about the breadcrumb posts. How does that prove scum intent?
And no. I can attack whomever I please. Why the hell do I need to wait any longer?
@huntzilla 384: That post is very like Chris. Which game did you play with him?
@Chemtrails: wow you're more useless than me.
Hooker is probably town, but I agree with ISO that his attack is odd. However, he's done it in a townie way.
BF's posts look so fake Attack Faeth
The one I was comparing it against was Animal Mafia. Read the beginning of that day versus this one. I was able to town clear chris easily in that one for several points... None of which look like him in this one. I also played with him in xkcd mafia, and again, he was not as hostile as he has come across here.
I won't lose any sleep if Killjoy dies. His lack of reading is reminding me of The Wall.
@Wheat: Off-hand, I recall Celestial, maybe one of the Crosstowns briefly, and a uPick game that got canceled on MafiaScum. Maybe one other game that I'm forgetting.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Wheat - Differentiate WuTang Chris and this Chris for me in terms of believing what he says. How do you gauge when he doesn't believe what he says?
Mojito - Elaborate on your Sir Chris read, please. Why does your gut feel comfortable with that attack?
Iso - Chris's play style does take flack early... but I'd like to know what you think of the content of my discussion with him, specifically. I'd prefer that you hold off on answering until Wheat and Mojito do, though.
OOG: I'll workshop with you after if you'd like. I'm slightly rejuvinated at the moment because I have more frequent access during the week to keep up with games again, but I've also been fighting burnout since the end of last year/beginning of this.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So a few more notes and an Attack:
1. I really have no opinion on Chris at the moment, I have played with him twice and both times his playstyle was not reflective of his alignment at all, if anything i would say he is deeply aware of his character/playstyle traits and intentionally subverts them during each game, so no i am not jumping on his wagon because of that, if anything what i have noticed is that the late game tends to make a clearer differentiation on his alignment than anything (but i wont go into detail on how yet), so he shouldnt be attacked yet.
2. I still like the idea of just pummeling Pizza, i might do it actually.
3. If I decide not to attack Pizza ill attack BF because i owe Iso a big "barn vote" for xkcd, but i admit seeing him not be THAT much of an ass is troubling, your game within an game within a game is so annoying to crack Iso... its almost at Seppel level insanity...
4. I still want to attack W_G on principle that this is fate.
And thats pretty much it... nothing else really has stood out to me, at least nothing i want to go through the hassle of multi-quoting and dissecting with Curse's interface.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Lol I was planning to attack with the post but i was made it i decided maybe i should wait a little more, yet i forgot to remove the part where i said i would attack.
Consider this "intent on attacking" (since we really cant do the standard vote thing):
BF
Pizza
W_G
In that order.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
i admit seeing him not be THAT much of an ass is troubling, your game within an game within a game is so annoying to crack Iso... its almost at Seppel level insanity...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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I don't know how you've managed to believe I am still pushing for the mass claim. I flat out said I was only about 50-50, bringing it up because I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or bad, and I wanted to see reactions more than push the mass claim.
The whole reason I posted that breakdown was that I wasn't going to push it anymore because BF pointed out a huge flaw I hadn't thought of on top of it all.
You miss all of this and push my reasoning as good, but also try to deflect back onto me when you get flak for it.
Add KJ to the list of all-out attack possibilities.
your next argument is that liking != thinking benefits outweigh consequences
not buying that for a second: nowhere before #396 did you say or suggest you thought the claim ideas -- both KK's and yours -- were more consequential than beneficial, which runs completely contrary to the attitude you assumed in your opening post (laying down possibilities for stat claims you "liked" and encouraging further discussion on those claims)
you can't hide behind semantics, because the dissonant shift in attitude on the topic of stat claims is not rational townie behavior and exposes your opening post as empty busywork and a half-baked attempt to look townie without following through
also, lemme respond to you with only previous quotes of mine
And that's twice you've dodged my question about kk.
Also, wait... you think he's town for his attack suggestion? How do you reconcile that with your attack on me?
Your entire point about me is that I never explicitly said "Hey, these won't work" which doesn't make much sense given context. Like I said, if I had found soemthing viable, I would have said.
But that's not the point. You took issue with the idea he had, but never jumped on him about it. That's my problem here.
I didn't say you're still pushing for it. I'm saying Relm should have given you at least SOME flak for it, but he never did. He just jumped on me.
I may have jumped the gun on the whole "Relm-KK scumteam" thing, but still. Relm is acting weird, and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
That is my next argument, actually, because ITS TRUE.
If I actually thought it was beneficial, I'd be pushing it, don't you think?
I was exploring possibilities. Like "is there a way we can exploit mechanics this game?" And arrived at "probably not."
Just becasue I didn't outright say "Well, none of these work" doesn't mean that the context doesn't say that. And your overly aggresive stance here, and wanton use of attack words based on basically me not being around for a couple days and calling it dodging (I haven't avoided your questions at all)
I didn't say that forcing interaction isn't part of your Town game. I said that I didn't think you'd have approached the situation in the way you did, and I still don't. You expressed it offhand to KA about me and say that it was a "threat" but it wasn't a threat, it was a scum read given with others to a different players. I was one of your three scummiest players because I didn't have a lean on my read on you and because I didn't give thoughts on you. But last time we played you were scum and you asked me why I wasn't interacting with you and I told you that I hadn't seen anything that made me concerned yet (woe is me for that call) and that I was just letting you do your thing until I saw something to be concerned with. So I don't even buy that you legit thought I was suspicious for that because you've seen me do it before. It was also a follow up question from KA. You said he wasn't in your top three, then when you were asked who your top three were, you listed me among them. Do I think it's believable that you thought I was suspicious enough to list me in your top three scum reads but that you thought the best way to approach me and determine if that read was correct was to initially mention that you have three top reads to someone else you're suspecting without saying who, wait to be asked who they were, add me in with the other two people, not address me directly, and wait for me to approach you? I do not.
Also, your tonal shift here is dramatic from the posts that led up to this and it's supposed to look indignant, but I don't believe that either. You're a player who thrives off of interaction and you were supposedly playing as you did for the purpose of baiting a reaction out of me. When I approached you, your tone was playful using words like "naughty" and being tongue in cheek with how towny you were being before, and then later, saying that you were a simple man trying to get a simple interaction out of me. But now that I'm giving you my more detailed read on you based on your play, you're annoyed, allegedly because I'm reading you incorrectly and think I'm reading you correctly. But why are you annoyed if you were trying to get me to interact with you to begin with? Isn't the purpose to get a better read on me? I don't buy it. You're a veteran and have people attempting to read you all of the time, I'm sure sometimes they're correct and sometimes their incorrect. The idea that you get this worked up over someone being incorrect feels fake to me and I think you're embellishing.
When we played in Celestial I had an early scum read on you and was wrong based on my read of your play - but your approach there carried none of the same annoyance.
The irony of this is that I didn't have a read on you when I made my list - so you're crowing for getting me to give a read on you, but then you're saying it's wrong, but that you owned me because you got me to give a read with your comment. So, if this was true - you successfully got me to go from null reading you to reading you incorrectly? Congratulations?
I don't know how better to explain this - but your stance is hollow here.
Regarding the KA point - you were both suspecting him and you were annoyed at him - but you said that luckily for him, he wasn't in your top three reads. The purpose of a comment like that is an attempt to diffuse the situation. Why would you, as town, suspecting KA, attempt to diffuse that situation? You wouldn't. Even if he wasn't in your top three reads, if you suspected him why take that opportunity when you were going back and forth with him to try to ease his mind? Town don't "need motivation" but you don't see town players who legitimately suspect someone take a pause from an altercation to let the player they're engaging with know that they aren't in their top three suspects list despite still suspecting them - because there's no point to it. It was cutting off interaction with him at the same time you were expressing suspicion of him, which is a counter-intuitive thing to do considering you just told me how much you thrive off of interactions with people.
Scum do that kind of thing all the time, because of any number of reasons, they want to stop the fight, they don't want to look like they're OMGUSing, they want the other person to see that they're being reasonable, they want to appease them and get them to stop suspecting them, etc, etc.
Except, you are familiar with me enough to know I'll call you out when I suspect you (Celestial) and that I am more observant of you when I feel I haven't seen anything alignment telling yet (Wu Tang).
BTW, I'm always going to read you as I read you based on what I think about your play and my knowledge of what I've seen you do, and my opinion of general human/mafia game behavior - not what you tell me I'm allowed to think about your play. You're not going to be able to cow that out of me so you might as well stop with the "how dare you try to read me" nonsense.
I think the opposite. Scum are normally very conscious to make sure they don't contradict themselves. Town are much more likely to find something suspicious in someone else and not realize that they themselves are doing it, or not even worry about that fact because they don't have anything to hide and they aren't as worried (if at all) about their own consistency. And, considering your earlier stance that town basically just spit their game and let their towniness shine through, I think you're catering your view here.
Attack: Sir Chris
-----------------------------------------------------------------
@Hans - because I wanted to hear from you on that specifically because of your comment and because of your singling out my focus on BlindFaeth as opposed to others, and still do.
@Blindfaeth - I don't think that you believe that.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
DCIII attacks Sir Chris!
Attacks remaining:
Blindfaeth
Bur
Burning_Earth2
Cantripmancer
Chemtrails
DanteRossetti
dkingsland967
hansanator
Huntzilla
KamikazeArchon
KoolKoal
Mojito_fun
Sepiriel
Sir Chris
Wheat_Grinder
Previously...
RelmArrowny attacked Killjoy.
Iso attacked DCIII.
Askthepizzaguy attacked Sir Chris.
MisterSins attacked Sir Chris.
Megiddo attacked blindfaeth.
HookerPunch attacked Iso.
Killjoy attacks RelmArrowny!
DCIII attacks Sir Chris!
Attacks remaining:
Blindfaeth
Bur
Burning_Earth2
Cantripmancer
Chemtrails
DanteRossetti
dkingsland967
Gentleman Johnny
hansanator
Huntzilla
KamikazeArchon
KoolKoal
Mojito_fun
Sepiriel
Sir Chris
Wheat_Grinder
Previously...
Iso attacked DCIII.
Askthepizzaguy attacked Sir Chris.
MisterSins attacked Sir Chris.
Megiddo attacked blindfaeth.
HookerPunch attacked Iso.
RelmArrowny attacked Killjoy.
To answer your question to me in there Bur... I did it because I felt like it.
Attack: Bur
This whole post is crap, and is the only one you have all game. I just got off Animal Mafia where you would do this, and you turned out to be super scum. Not letting it happen again.
Chemtrails do you sign up to actually play the game of mafia or what? You've made zero contribution to this game. I don't get it. Why sign up if you aren't going to play the game?
Now in its proper thread.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
There's a disconnect there for someone who was supposedly intending to try to mix it up and it's one of the reasons I think that emotion is feigned.
You're basically saying "how could you not have a read on me?" And then following it up with, "I'm outraged, how could you presume to have a read on me?"
But, yeah, if you are Town I'll have a few post game thoughts for you as well.
Let me ask you this - what's your read on me now?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I feel fairly comfortable doing this:
Attack: Sir Chris
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Huntzilla attacks Bur!
Mojito_fun attacks Sir Chris!
Attacks remaining:
Blindfaeth
Bur
Burning_Earth2
Cantripmancer
Chemtrails
DanteRossetti
dkingsland967
hansanator
KamikazeArchon
KoolKoal
Sepiriel
Sir Chris
Wheat_Grinder
Previously...
Killjoy attacked RelmArrowny.
DCIII attacked Sir Chris.
Iso attacked DCIII.
Askthepizzaguy attacked Sir Chris.
MisterSins attacked Sir Chris.
Megiddo attacked blindfaeth.
HookerPunch attacked Iso.
RelmArrowny attacked Killjoy.
And Gentleman Johnny is still on your attack list.
I don't think Chris is scum, his style of play has a knack for drawing a lot of flack early.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I've been burned out on Mafia for a while, now, but I keep joining games because mods need "just one more player" or they have an awesome setup that I don't want to regret missing out on. I really need a hiatus, at least for playing, after this game. (I do plan to finish up Season 1 of the League, though, and maybe limit myself to League games for a while after that?)
If anyone wants to talk about optimizing the strategy behind my play post-game, I'd be amicable to criticism, so long as it's not to the effect of "completely change everything you are doing about Mafia". I generate reactions, I have good reads at SOME point in nearly every game, I draw connections between people quite well, I can analyze wagons and gambits and Nightkills, and I can fend off accusations and handily mislynch as scum, and catch scum as town. I'm just in a rut, I think, where I either veer towards one extreme or the other, and neither is entirely effective in itself - it's gotta be somewhere in between. I think the first step will be knowing when to pick my battles, because as I said, I grow weary of massive exchanges - I just want people to see what I see and lynch accordingly.
Meh. I'm sure I'll get there, eventually. Anyway, this post is basically my excuse for phoning it in until more things happen and I get motivated. Take it as you will.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Am I the only seeing this? Really?
Either way, we're all gonna burn
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I'm really not understanding why.
Surely you're not this bad as town?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
#427 irks me in the sense that it's the sort of impassioned post town make when backed against a corner, but the fact that Iso whips it out of nowhere strikes me as...a touch disingenuous
other than that, no, I don't see anything wrong with Iso
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm certain, Iso's certain, there's no need to wait any longer.
I disapproves of attacks on Sir Chris; I think he believes what he says too much to be scum.
Have you played with Iso before? If so, how many times?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why is it crap?
Shouldn't you wait for more interactions before going that far?
- He just copied the attack idea from KK;
- Relm is attacking him for the attack idea;
- Relm didn't attack KK for the attack idea, and this is inconsistent.
Here is the actual series of posts:
Here is where the first attack mass claim begins:
KJ says that he likes the idea; he further expands on it directly, adding more +/- for claiming other stats. The series of posts after this have already been summarized by Relm.
So this is the real series of events:
- KK posts the mass-attack claim idea and swiftly retracts it;
- Relm makes an offhanded comment after the retraction;
- KJ picks up the already-retracted idea and claims to like it, and expands on it;
- Relm questions this;
- KJ deflects the questioning to KK;
- Relm points out KJ's inconsistency and backtracking;
- KJ attacks Relm, and claims that Relm should have been questioning KK over the same thing.
KJ is trying to hide behind KK and misrepresenting the events, and that retaliatory attack on Relm is clearly anti-town.
attack Killjoy
@Chemtrails: wow you're more useless than me.
Hooker is probably town, but I agree with ISO that his attack is odd. However, he's done it in a townie way.
BF's posts look so fake Attack Faeth
I agree, KJ is misrepping in a scummy way.
The questions do not relate to the alignments of the people they are asked to. He asks me for example about my obvious joke about massclaiming and about the breadcrumb posts. How does that prove scum intent?
And no. I can attack whomever I please. Why the hell do I need to wait any longer?
The one I was comparing it against was Animal Mafia. Read the beginning of that day versus this one. I was able to town clear chris easily in that one for several points... None of which look like him in this one. I also played with him in xkcd mafia, and again, he was not as hostile as he has come across here.
I only care about the answer, not who gives it. Go for it.
@Wheat: Off-hand, I recall Celestial, maybe one of the Crosstowns briefly, and a uPick game that got canceled on MafiaScum. Maybe one other game that I'm forgetting.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mojito - Elaborate on your Sir Chris read, please. Why does your gut feel comfortable with that attack?
Iso - Chris's play style does take flack early... but I'd like to know what you think of the content of my discussion with him, specifically. I'd prefer that you hold off on answering until Wheat and Mojito do, though.
OOG: I'll workshop with you after if you'd like. I'm slightly rejuvinated at the moment because I have more frequent access during the week to keep up with games again, but I've also been fighting burnout since the end of last year/beginning of this.
------------------------------------------------------------
I like KA's summary of the Killjoy/Relm interactions - both his conclusion and for his alignment.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Remind me to answer you later, then, after Mojito and Wheat do.
As for Killjoy, what do you make of his play here as compared to The Wall?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. I really have no opinion on Chris at the moment, I have played with him twice and both times his playstyle was not reflective of his alignment at all, if anything i would say he is deeply aware of his character/playstyle traits and intentionally subverts them during each game, so no i am not jumping on his wagon because of that, if anything what i have noticed is that the late game tends to make a clearer differentiation on his alignment than anything (but i wont go into detail on how yet), so he shouldnt be attacked yet.
2. I still like the idea of just pummeling Pizza, i might do it actually.
3. If I decide not to attack Pizza ill attack BF because i owe Iso a big "barn vote" for xkcd, but i admit seeing him not be THAT much of an ass is troubling, your game within an game within a game is so annoying to crack Iso... its almost at Seppel level insanity...
4. I still want to attack W_G on principle that this is fate.
And thats pretty much it... nothing else really has stood out to me, at least nothing i want to go through the hassle of multi-quoting and dissecting with Curse's interface.
Consider this "intent on attacking" (since we really cant do the standard vote thing):
BF
Pizza
W_G
In that order.
Well, we are related...
oh gee what a huge surprise
I guess you got mad that I'm not a time traveler
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player