I didn't see a single valid thing KJ said. Elaborate how anything he said is on point? You actually believe that blustering around day one as if you have everything figured out is sound town play, I suppose? I have no idea why feigning certainty about things is a pro town thing. I was asked my opinion about someone, I gave it, and because it is not written in stone it somehow makes me scummy? No, what is scummy is trying to force people into making decisions they are not ready to make. That uncertainty and caution are the hallmarks of SCUM and not prudent town play is insane. I am afraid you will lynch me every time if that is your measure of town, because I refuse to compromise and to believe that being honest is somehow to the detriment of town.
As for me me me, who else to talk about me except for me? No one else is going to be a better advocate for me than me, and it is best to discuss things relating to me because I have a firmer grasp of me than I do anyone else. Another thing you will just have to get used to. A good game starts at home, after all. It is why I dislike KJ so heavily, because he is completely off base on both how to play the game of mafia and about what I have done.
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So the only valid thing that zds just said is talking about chris voting KJ. If it wasn't for thay I'd be voting you.
@ZDS
Why is being unsure of scumspects a scumtell? Do you think that cyan is a high caliber player that can carry the game as town?
I don't understand how anyone can think KJ has said anything remotely on point in regards to me. Speak up, Hawk. Use words to discuss the game with us. Why is that the only that that is valid? Is it because it didn't involve voting for you?
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I think the link doesn't go where it ought. I hate everything about Starcraft mafia so tell me which post to look at; otherwise I'm not going to look at it.
Do you know one of the things I've noticed about scum coming after me in my year here? They love using terms that actually don't make sense when it applies to me. It's like a defect in their minds. It is usually the term distancing used all sorts of incorrectly that draws my ire, but here I am going to examine Killjoy's use of the word fencesitting. For some reason, Killjoy thinks it is natural for a member of town to have a fully fledged, concrete opinion of someone of high skill three days into the game.
That's not what I think at all. I think that town players should be swayed by people's actions in SOME direction, even if something else sways them back. You obviously can form opinions of good players in the early game, as you've said things about ZDS (who, it's worthy to note, is one of the people pushing you right now) saying you liked his play. ZDS is experienced, and is a good scum player.
The most you've said about Cyan is that you're not seeing some arbitrary tells Cyan apperently does as scum, despite him being a good scum player. My point is you haven't given him much notice, even though he's done stuff that are worthy of notice. You're handwaving and fence sitting.
That I should see a handful of posts by someone, in this case Cyan, and be able to give some sort of firm answer. This just doesn't make sense. This is what I call a false expectation. The worst part though is that he engineered this from the start by asking for my opinion of Cyan incredibly early, which I gave, but then he acts like my answer isn't good enough. As if it is scummy to be moderate in opinion.
You aren't moderate in opinion, you're nonexistant in such.
Killjoy you accuse me of fence sitting with fervor which by the way is not fence sitting at all on that point! The whole point of fence sitting is to hedge bets, to appear unsure.
Yes. That's what you're doing. How is this not what you're doing?
I have done neither. I have given a comprehensive opinion about Cyan as one is bound to get given that there have been now nine bloody posts by him. You acting as if I should be sure is a disgusting display of trying to move the yard sticks. I question the sanity of any person who comes into this topic and tells me Oh yeah, I am really sure this guy is scum before the day can even begin! because its usually blowhards who are swinging and missing wildly, flailing with some twisted form of logic.
So you're really saying that nothing he's done or said has appeared townie? Scummy? Nothing?
Further, I don't like being accused of playing with fear. What you should remember from my game Killjoy, is I don't make wild, leaping conclusions early. I also treat good scum players not with fear, but with caution. It has thus far served me quite well.
I believe your entire attack on me is absurd, a farce, and without any merit. You can question me and be town, but I don't think town is so wildly off the mark as you appear to be.
##unvote: BE
##vote: Killjoy
If OMGUS was a legit thing, I'd call this that. Cyan can wait.
Unvote, Vote Sir Chris
I don't believe you're voting me because you think I'm faking my argument. I think you're voting me to divert some pressure to me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Moreover, I have to admit Sir Chris' meta-defense of Cyan is convincingly genuine (ie: I am convinced Sir Chris genuinely does not recognise the scum-Cyan he is used to). Why he does not defend Cyan more openly is beyond me, though (being careful with good scum players and "he only has X posts!" are such bull***** reasons).
Vote: Sir Chris
How do you reconcile this statement with this vote?
That's not what I think at all. I think that town players should be swayed by people's actions in SOME direction, even if something else sways them back. You obviously can form opinions of good players in the early game, as you've said things about ZDS (who, it's worthy to note, is one of the people pushing you right now) saying you liked his play. ZDS is experienced, and is a good scum player.
Well if you're town this is just where we disagree then, because I got nothing from Cyan's posts except for what I said. Maybe that's the disconnect here: you are expecting something I don't get. I read Cyan's posts and all I get back are "typical Cyan doing Cyan things." I mean, that's literally the summation I get from them in my head. I gave all I had to give regarding Cyan by stating he doesn't seem overtly scummy. I have no basis for anything from ZDS, I'll take your word he is experienced, whereas I have played with Cyan a lot. I am making my very first impressions about ZDS now, whereas Cyan has had time to make several impressions. My lack of opinion on Cyan is as much of an opinion as an actual opinion is, you should realize. Just like an opinion I defend it, and just like an opinion others are attacking it. Sometimes the absence of things is the same as the presence of things.
The most you've said about Cyan is that you're not seeing some arbitrary tells Cyan apperently does as scum, despite him being a good scum player. My point is you haven't given him much notice, even though he's done stuff that are worthy of notice. You're handwaving and fence sitting.
I don't think very many things he has done so far have been worthy of notice in comparison to what Cyan usually does. Have I just been playing with Cyan too much lately?
Yes. That's what you're doing. How is this not what you're doing?
I think it is a paradox to 'double down' on fence sitting. Like, really? At no point in this series of post would it have been hard to make up an opinion about Cyan. Not having a strong opinion about someone is not the same as fence sitting.
So you're really saying that nothing he's done or said has appeared townie? Scummy? Nothing?
Correct. That is my stance. That is literally my stance. Nothing he has done so far strikes me as anything other than typical Cyan early game banter, which I have seen established in previous games as a null tell. I am not on a fence about this, I just don't have a read on him! A difference, there is.
As for diverting pressure, perish the thought. I welcome pressure. Under pressure is when things get interesting. If I didn't welcome pressure I would not play the game of mafia as I do. No, I voted for you because I don't like your argument against me.
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What are your thoughts on Cyan making the ridiculous claim that OMGUS is scummy? What are your thoughts on Cyan making that ridiculous argument and then engaging in OMGUS?
I don't feel as if Cyan was making the argument that OMGUS was scummy, but simply that OMGUS is a poor logical thought process. That Cyan engaged in OMGUS is not surprising to me in the least though, he has a bit of a temper on him.
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The last game I played with him (I replaced in) we were both town. He ended up posting snippets thay would resonate my own thoughts. This has already occurred.
The last game I played with him (I replaced in) we were both town. He ended up posting snippets thay would resonate my own thoughts. This has already occurred.
So he posts in snippets as town too, then.
I'm gonna have a hard time figuring out if he's really scum.
To clear up some confusion here. OMGUS is sometimes scummy and sometimes not. In my estimation, IMAB's use of it was scummy.
Sir Chris is starting to remind me more of his town-self. ZDS is starting to confuse me, IMAB still seems scummy to me, but could just be a bad player. I find myself wanting to vote KJ more with every post he makes at this point, which I will elaborate on later today when I have more time.
How do you reconcile imab being town with BE? I mean in regards to page 1, particularly imab's snap vote on BE2.
In particular, explain to me why you believe imab is scum and not just bad.
You mean the snap vote he retracts a few posts later in the page? Then they both go on to call each other OBVTOWN based on utter bull*****.
I've already explained why imab is scummy. In my posts. Try reading them. He displays a classic disassociative state tell and proceeds to attack his attackers. Both are scummy.
@Plowshares: Why is BE scum, exactly? (Just OMGUS, or something else?)
Buddying with imab and wheat.
Attacking Chris without adding anything original, just barns.
Inexplicably barning Seppel's naked vote on me.
Also, this gem:
To clear up some confusion here. OMGUS is sometimes scummy and sometimes not. In my estimation, IMAB's use of it was scummy.
Sir Chris is starting to remind me more of his town-self. ZDS is starting to confuse me, IMAB still seems scummy to me, but could just be a bad player. I find myself wanting to vote KJ more with every post he makes at this point, which I will elaborate on later today when I have more time.
I'm looking forward to your response to ZDS' question.
How do you reconcile imab being town with BE? I mean in regards to page 1, particularly imab's snap vote on BE2.
In particular, explain to me why you believe imab is scum and not just bad.
You mean the snap vote he retracts a few posts later in the page? Then they both go on to call each other OBVTOWN based on utter bull*****.
I've already explained why imab is scummy. In my posts. Try reading them. He displays a classic disassociative state tell and proceeds to attack his attackers. Both are scummy.
1. The dissociative state tell is bull*****, at least how you're trying to use it. The way he phrased it makes sense.
2. So what about all the other players attacking their attackers? Is Chris scum for attacking Killjoy? Is Cyan scum for attacking ZDS?
3. I still disagree about imab and BE but I'm fine with that part of your response.
Either you don't know me or are scum. That's ok.
First off what do you mean by standing idly by? I pointed out a few people that I was interested in and started talking to them. I also pointed out a bunch of people I thought were town with actual reasons per the WG interaction. I can also elaborate more on them but it's ok for you to ignore that part to make me look bad. (you know, pointing out town isn't something scum will do very often early game because then its harder to lynch people if you are calling everyone town.) I do it because I'm better at finding town then scum. Period.
But either way you are reaching really far here, trying to paint me as doing nothing which is BS.
vote zds
@Everyone else
So the first game I was scum i was against cantripmanner as town and he basically has two posting styles as town based on the effort/how much time he could play. His first post style echoes that he wants to be involved and win. He's town.
ZDS, I was ok with you until you voted Hawk. Going back and reading #165, your reasons for disliking Hawk feel both weak and a bit of a stretch. I don't feel like Hawk was saying "with luck, our cop will out himself D2 to clear up this Cyan business" (paraphrased). I agree with Hawk that if Cyan is town, he'll be an asset, and his rep as a strong player makes him a natural cop target (the same goes for you, I would argue). In no way does that translate to outting the cop, D2 or otherwise.
And "he may be laying the groundwork for a future vote on me"? Hawk used pretty soft language there. Not that scum can't be subtle, but I see this kind of statement from town all the time, usually with a lot more egotistic certainty.
(BTW, ZDS, why does riding the fence make Hawk female? Is this an allusion that I'm not catching?)
So the first game I was scum i was against cantripmanner as town and he basically has two posting styles as town based on the effort/how much time he could play. His first post style echoes that he wants to be involved and win. He's town.
Which post do you feel shows that I want to be involved and win, and why does me being involved and wanting to win make me town, explicitly?
@WG: You mean in post 165? I hate everything about that post. ZDS 'turn around' on me looks awful, considering that the reason he quoted occurred immediately after we started arguing, and that was like 100 posts ago? It feels like he just wants to get away from my wagon because it isn't going anywhere. And then, as if he wants to reinforce exactly this notion, he votes Sir Chris, whom is clearly the current 'wagon du jour'. The way that he created a buildup toward voting Chris, especially talking about Hawk etc as well, just feels so..phony.
As for the 2 questions in that post. I have no idea what to make of you. It feels like you should have a concrete read on me regardless of your alignment, so I'm pretty confused there. As for Sir Chris, I get why people are voting him but, gun to my head, I would say he is closer to his town meta here than his scum one. I don't feel very confident about that, but the way that ZDS and KJ(whom I have a slightly scum read on at this point) jumped over to him makes me feel even worse.
And speaking of ZDS and KJ. I don't think that they can both be scum, and I certainly think that at least one of them is. The more KJ posts, the less he reminds me of how he acted as town in Archer, Wu Tang, etc. I didn't get that much of a read on him as scum from The Wall 2, because he really did not participate, so I'm having trouble making a solid judgment here.
Right now, I feel like too many people are acting far too scummy for so early into Day 1. This is making it very difficult to really pin things down.
Hunt, are you seriously voting Seppel for quoting a meme?
I mean, yeah, I was...
unvote
When you put it that way it just makes me sound silly. It helped though that Seppel pointed out the meme and that he did it once as town too. But it was a serious vote.
Just like my serious vote on you for "glory to the motherland." You a soviet spy? You a Russian per your Role PM? You know what my role PM states? TO be wary of the Russians who are scum... So imagine my surprise when the first thing you post relates to this...
Hunt, are you seriously voting Seppel for quoting a meme?
I mean, yeah, I was...
unvote
When you put it that way it just makes me sound silly. It helped though that Seppel pointed out the meme and that he did it once as town too. But it was a serious vote.
Just like my serious vote on you for "glory to the motherland." You a soviet spy? You a Russian per your Role PM? You know what my role PM states? TO be wary of the Russians who are scum... So imagine my surprise when the first thing you post relates to this...
Vote Kamikaze
Die Scum...
Errr..are you saying in this post that you are voting Kami specifically because A)you think he is Russian and B)you think all Russians are scum in this game?
@KJ: Independently; that is, I don't see an alignment link. ZDS's push on Chris has been inconsistent - in a way that could just be not being 100% on the scum read, or it could be a coach/bus combination, as he's spending a lot of time telling Chris exactly what he's seeing in Chris's behavior.
Hunt: This is funny because I'm Russian in real life. I'm also pretty sure it's a townslip, as I can't imagine mafia taking that series of actions.
@KJ: Independently; that is, I don't see an alignment link. ZDS's push on Chris has been inconsistent - in a way that could just be not being 100% on the scum read, or it could be a coach/bus combination, as he's spending a lot of time telling Chris exactly what he's seeing in Chris's behavior.
Hunt: This is funny because I'm Russian in real life. I'm also pretty sure it's a townslip, as I can't imagine mafia taking that series of actions.
What are your thoughts on Cyan saying too many People are acting scummy when there have been bucketloads of townreads given out near the start of the game? Do you think his comment reads as genuine?
Hunt, are you seriously voting Seppel for quoting a meme?
I mean, yeah, I was...
unvote
When you put it that way it just makes me sound silly. It helped though that Seppel pointed out the meme and that he did it once as town too. But it was a serious vote.
Just like my serious vote on you for "glory to the motherland." You a soviet spy? You a Russian per your Role PM? You know what my role PM states? TO be wary of the Russians who are scum... So imagine my surprise when the first thing you post relates to this...
Vote Kamikaze
Die Scum...
Errr..are you saying in this post that you are voting Kami specifically because A)you think he is Russian and B)you think all Russians are scum in this game?
Where do you think kami's "for the motherland" comment came from?
@KJ: Independently; that is, I don't see an alignment link. ZDS's push on Chris has been inconsistent - in a way that could just be not being 100% on the scum read, or it could be a coach/bus combination, as he's spending a lot of time telling Chris exactly what he's seeing in Chris's behavior.
Hunt: This is funny because I'm Russian in real life. I'm also pretty sure it's a townslip, as I can't imagine mafia taking that series of actions.
That is pretty funny!
To be clear... I meant as a role...
Huntz: OP specifically states that VTs are Russian.
Cyan: Thanks for the answer. If you weren't Cyan my read on you *would* be concrete right now. The reason I'm not chomping at the bit for your lynch is that the very moment I'm wrong on you I have to give up my shiny embossed "Able to read Cyan" card, so I want to be more certain than normal.
The funny thing about that tell is that it is awful.
It is an awful tell, but it's not awful to suspect someone for making it. A scum mindset absolutely has the potential to lead to it, especially a newer scum mindset. So remind me how many games you've played (with town/scum ratio, if possible)? And did any of those games discuss this tell (quotes would be nice if you can manage them)?
I used to vote people for grammar "slips", but then I realized that (many) people just make errors. Now I have grammar slips in my "minor chip against that player" category.
His vote on Hansanator is bad, given that it's a second vote piling on top of a first vote that was clearly not a serious one. Over-explanation of setup theory very early in the game. And lastly, he votes BE2 based on disagreeing with BE2 saying 'that tell is awful'. But we don't even know which tell BE2 is referring to. All in all, this feels like a surprisingly good wagon to be involved in, especially considering how early in the game we are.
I like most of this, except for that last line. You sound a little self-conscious about being on an early wagon.
Cyan probably isn't though.
He misidenties my RVS as serious on hansanator. Then he call the set-up theory an "over explanation" when it's clearly not. Lastly he claims "we" can't identify the tell BE2 is referring to when myself, BE2 and cantripmancer all recognize it. Probably more people would have recognized it too but BE2 spilled the beans.
I've read Cyan's post several times, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying he couldn't identify the tell; he was saying that he didn't presume to know what BE was talking about. That last line feels off...almost like you wish other people had made vague or outright references to knowing the tell before Cyan posted so you'd have "more" on Cyan. Slight blur on BE2 for "spilling the beans".
And I didn't say I think 2 votes is piling on, I was recounting what Cyan said. Again, that's quite obvious from what I wrote. You're misrepping everyone.
Wait, what? Let's take another look at what you said:
...and I'm pretty sure there's a misrep in there - Cyan didn't say imab's vote was bad because it was serious, he said imab's vote was bad because it was piling on after another RVS vote.
But I didn't presume to know and vote him over it, after he had already received multiple other votes in rapid succession.
So it seems to me that Cyan's talking about his (Cyan's) position, which would be the fourth vote on BE, not IMAB's position, which was only the 2nd vote. So, Kami, your statement feels like a misrep.
Ok, you're scum. You said you forgot your previous login info! Liar.
Unvote, Vote KamikazeArchon
I'm not liking Wheat, either.
@cantrip
This post. So that first game someone wrote up analysis on you before we even started playing so I ended up getting a feel for your tone early on. Nothing feels off or different.
Huntz: OP specifically states that VTs are Russian.
Cool kids don't read the OP until it becomes relevant.
It became relevant.
Here's my game state so far. Here's the only people that could be scum. If you have a super-strong reason why one of them isn't scum, let me know.
1. ZeDorkSlipeur
2. Plowshares
3. KamikazeArchon
4. Cyan
5. Blindfaeth
7. Cantripmancer
8. hansanator
9. Roowastaken
11.Wheat_Grider
13. SirChris
14. huntzilla (vouched for by BE2)
15. 7hawk77 (vouched for by BE2)
This list removes:
6. BE2
10. Seppel
12. imab
16. KJ
I agree with this list. I'm also willing to say Cantrip and huntz are town. Cantrip seems like he genuinely wants to figure out who the scum are. Huntz isn't a very heavy read but he's not saying anything scummy and I think that speaks volumes given he's still fairly new.
The rest I either have no strong opinion on or think are scum.
With the way my wagon was going, if Hawk were scum, he could have pushed it over the edge by getting involved in it, and drawn very little scrutiny in doing so. Instead he took the road of more resistance. Hawk is on my list of strong town reads, along with Cantrip, Kami, Huntzilla, and BE2.
Look carefully at the complete non-interaction that Kami and Cyan have re: each other. Then realize that Cyan has a "strong townread" on Kami based on nothing more than them being scum buddies.
Look carefully at the complete non-interaction that Kami and Cyan have re: each other. Then realize that Cyan has a "strong townread" on Kami based on nothing more than them being scum buddies.
@ZDS
Why is being unsure of scumspects a scumtell? Do you think that cyan is a high caliber player that can carry the game as town?
Outdated Mafia Stats
As for me me me, who else to talk about me except for me? No one else is going to be a better advocate for me than me, and it is best to discuss things relating to me because I have a firmer grasp of me than I do anyone else. Another thing you will just have to get used to. A good game starts at home, after all. It is why I dislike KJ so heavily, because he is completely off base on both how to play the game of mafia and about what I have done.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
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2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I don't understand how anyone can think KJ has said anything remotely on point in regards to me. Speak up, Hawk. Use words to discuss the game with us. Why is that the only that that is valid? Is it because it didn't involve voting for you?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I think the link doesn't go where it ought. I hate everything about Starcraft mafia so tell me which post to look at; otherwise I'm not going to look at it.
What do you like about Plowshares?
How do you reconcile imab being town with BE? I mean in regards to page 1, particularly imab's snap vote on BE2.
In particular, explain to me why you believe imab is scum and not just bad.
Harvest season is a long way off.
The most you've said about Cyan is that you're not seeing some arbitrary tells Cyan apperently does as scum, despite him being a good scum player. My point is you haven't given him much notice, even though he's done stuff that are worthy of notice. You're handwaving and fence sitting.
You aren't moderate in opinion, you're nonexistant in such.
Yes. That's what you're doing. How is this not what you're doing?
So you're really saying that nothing he's done or said has appeared townie? Scummy? Nothing?
If OMGUS was a legit thing, I'd call this that. Cyan can wait.
Unvote, Vote Sir Chris
I don't believe you're voting me because you think I'm faking my argument. I think you're voting me to divert some pressure to me.
Well if you're town this is just where we disagree then, because I got nothing from Cyan's posts except for what I said. Maybe that's the disconnect here: you are expecting something I don't get. I read Cyan's posts and all I get back are "typical Cyan doing Cyan things." I mean, that's literally the summation I get from them in my head. I gave all I had to give regarding Cyan by stating he doesn't seem overtly scummy. I have no basis for anything from ZDS, I'll take your word he is experienced, whereas I have played with Cyan a lot. I am making my very first impressions about ZDS now, whereas Cyan has had time to make several impressions. My lack of opinion on Cyan is as much of an opinion as an actual opinion is, you should realize. Just like an opinion I defend it, and just like an opinion others are attacking it. Sometimes the absence of things is the same as the presence of things.
I don't think very many things he has done so far have been worthy of notice in comparison to what Cyan usually does. Have I just been playing with Cyan too much lately?
I think it is a paradox to 'double down' on fence sitting. Like, really? At no point in this series of post would it have been hard to make up an opinion about Cyan. Not having a strong opinion about someone is not the same as fence sitting.
Correct. That is my stance. That is literally my stance. Nothing he has done so far strikes me as anything other than typical Cyan early game banter, which I have seen established in previous games as a null tell. I am not on a fence about this, I just don't have a read on him! A difference, there is.
As for diverting pressure, perish the thought. I welcome pressure. Under pressure is when things get interesting. If I didn't welcome pressure I would not play the game of mafia as I do. No, I voted for you because I don't like your argument against me.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Excuse me for interrupting but...
What are your thoughts on Cyan making the ridiculous claim that OMGUS is scummy? What are your thoughts on Cyan making that ridiculous argument and then engaging in OMGUS?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
The last game I played with him (I replaced in) we were both town. He ended up posting snippets thay would resonate my own thoughts. This has already occurred.
Outdated Mafia Stats
So he posts in snippets as town too, then.
I'm gonna have a hard time figuring out if he's really scum.
Sir Chris is starting to remind me more of his town-self. ZDS is starting to confuse me, IMAB still seems scummy to me, but could just be a bad player. I find myself wanting to vote KJ more with every post he makes at this point, which I will elaborate on later today when I have more time.
You mean the snap vote he retracts a few posts later in the page? Then they both go on to call each other OBVTOWN based on utter bull*****.
I've already explained why imab is scummy. In my posts. Try reading them. He displays a classic disassociative state tell and proceeds to attack his attackers. Both are scummy.
Buddying with imab and wheat.
Attacking Chris without adding anything original, just barns.
Inexplicably barning Seppel's naked vote on me.
Also, this gem:
Force it in a little harder next time.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I'm looking forward to your response to ZDS' question.
1. The dissociative state tell is bull*****, at least how you're trying to use it. The way he phrased it makes sense.
2. So what about all the other players attacking their attackers? Is Chris scum for attacking Killjoy? Is Cyan scum for attacking ZDS?
3. I still disagree about imab and BE but I'm fine with that part of your response.
First off what do you mean by standing idly by? I pointed out a few people that I was interested in and started talking to them. I also pointed out a bunch of people I thought were town with actual reasons per the WG interaction. I can also elaborate more on them but it's ok for you to ignore that part to make me look bad. (you know, pointing out town isn't something scum will do very often early game because then its harder to lynch people if you are calling everyone town.) I do it because I'm better at finding town then scum. Period.
But either way you are reaching really far here, trying to paint me as doing nothing which is BS.
vote zds
@Everyone else
So the first game I was scum i was against cantripmanner as town and he basically has two posting styles as town based on the effort/how much time he could play. His first post style echoes that he wants to be involved and win. He's town.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Include hawk in my question 2 to you, Plowshares.
I was starting to feel pretty good about ZDS based on his last post until the very end threw me for a loop. Now I'm back to not knowing what to think.
Unvote Vote Chris
Also, plow, I'm not scum.
And "he may be laying the groundwork for a future vote on me"? Hawk used pretty soft language there. Not that scum can't be subtle, but I see this kind of statement from town all the time, usually with a lot more egotistic certainty.
(BTW, ZDS, why does riding the fence make Hawk female? Is this an allusion that I'm not catching?)
What do you mean by the bolded (that is, why not just say "I'm gonna have a hard time figuring out if Plowshare's scum"?)?
Because he feels scummy to me so far but there's a difference between scummy and actually scum.
I'm voting you because you didn't honor my request. I don't have a lot of posts, so you can find it easily.
As for the 2 questions in that post. I have no idea what to make of you. It feels like you should have a concrete read on me regardless of your alignment, so I'm pretty confused there. As for Sir Chris, I get why people are voting him but, gun to my head, I would say he is closer to his town meta here than his scum one. I don't feel very confident about that, but the way that ZDS and KJ(whom I have a slightly scum read on at this point) jumped over to him makes me feel even worse.
And speaking of ZDS and KJ. I don't think that they can both be scum, and I certainly think that at least one of them is. The more KJ posts, the less he reminds me of how he acted as town in Archer, Wu Tang, etc. I didn't get that much of a read on him as scum from The Wall 2, because he really did not participate, so I'm having trouble making a solid judgment here.
Right now, I feel like too many people are acting far too scummy for so early into Day 1. This is making it very difficult to really pin things down.
I mean, yeah, I was...
unvote
When you put it that way it just makes me sound silly. It helped though that Seppel pointed out the meme and that he did it once as town too. But it was a serious vote.
Just like my serious vote on you for "glory to the motherland." You a soviet spy? You a Russian per your Role PM? You know what my role PM states? TO be wary of the Russians who are scum... So imagine my surprise when the first thing you post relates to this...
Vote Kamikaze
Die Scum...
Would that I could... but I haven't voted Plowshares yet Hawk...
Errr..are you saying in this post that you are voting Kami specifically because A)you think he is Russian and B)you think all Russians are scum in this game?
Kind of.
I am gathering information mostly.
Hunt: This is funny because I'm Russian in real life. I'm also pretty sure it's a townslip, as I can't imagine mafia taking that series of actions.
What are your thoughts on Cyan saying too many People are acting scummy when there have been bucketloads of townreads given out near the start of the game? Do you think his comment reads as genuine?
Where do you think kami's "for the motherland" comment came from?
Purposefully so...
That is pretty funny!
To be clear... I meant as a role...
Cyan: Thanks for the answer. If you weren't Cyan my read on you *would* be concrete right now. The reason I'm not chomping at the bit for your lynch is that the very moment I'm wrong on you I have to give up my shiny embossed "Able to read Cyan" card, so I want to be more certain than normal.
Hoping to get more responses than that...
But I think Cyan is townie because of his response to it...
It became relevant.
Here's my game state so far. Here's the only people that could be scum. If you have a super-strong reason why one of them isn't scum, let me know.
1. ZeDorkSlipeur
2. Plowshares
3. KamikazeArchon
4. Cyan
5. Blindfaeth
7. Cantripmancer
8. hansanator
9. Roowastaken
11.Wheat_Grider
13. SirChris
14. huntzilla (vouched for by BE2)
15. 7hawk77 (vouched for by BE2)
@cantrip
This post. So that first game someone wrote up analysis on you before we even started playing so I ended up getting a feel for your tone early on. Nothing feels off or different.
Outdated Mafia Stats
This list removes:
6. BE2
10. Seppel
12. imab
16. KJ
I agree with this list. I'm also willing to say Cantrip and huntz are town. Cantrip seems like he genuinely wants to figure out who the scum are. Huntz isn't a very heavy read but he's not saying anything scummy and I think that speaks volumes given he's still fairly new.
The rest I either have no strong opinion on or think are scum.
huntzilla is absolutely not scum based on his first vote in the game. That vote made him crazy town.
True
But that's still better than most of the people in this game who haven't done enough for even me to get a read on.
Fake->real
thanks
Hey guys...
Look carefully at the complete non-interaction that Kami and Cyan have re: each other. Then realize that Cyan has a "strong townread" on Kami based on nothing more than them being scum buddies.
...so dumb.