Starting to catch up. At the bottom of page 2. I got ninjad by Seppels post, sry. I don't know what to say other than I thought it was an astute observation for a post early on that generated content. As of post 100 I'm feeling good about ZDS and plowshares and bad about imab, be2, and cyan.
1) There's a difference between not having a read on someone and refusing to make an artificial one (both of which are fine), and having a read on someone and refusing to act on it for some ***** reason (which more accurately describes you).
I just sat front row and seen what happens when someone town clears a scum Cyan early and tries to backtrack on it later on. Iso got skewered.. You say that it costs nothing to have an opinion and then to go back, and that's true often, but I don't process so simply. I don't go oh well Cyan hasn't bothered me so he is town I go Cyan hasn't bothered me...yet. There seems to be some misconception going on here that I didn't speak an opinion or something. I said exactly what I meant. I don't often operate in absolutes. This is not the first time I have had this conversation since coming here, though. People don't seem to like me much day one when I am town. But like... I feel like I operate on a different field of thought early on compared to other people or something. Like I don't... I just don't go town and scum on people who I know are skilled. I can't. It's not how I think. It is ingrained in me. Sorry I keep talking about myself but I feel the need to explain this so people stop acting as if I am snickering in the back withholding something.
2) There is also a difference between voting someone because they are acting scummy (ie doing things that would benefit them as scum), and voting someone because of some disagreement regarding playstyle/mafia theory. Although I'm not sure if it means you are scum or simply prideful.
I keep catching scum making arguments against me day one, so maybe it is a bit of hubris on my part. If KJ is town then he will show it in earnest debate with me over the subject of his observations about me. I like to fight. Town loses nothing by me forcing conflict with someone. If KJ is town then fighting with him will make me see that. On the other hand reading over your posts and reflecting back on KJ's posts make me realize I was being a bit overzealous in attacking KJ. I uh, don't really have much of a leg to stand on and I was just being defensive. ##unvote: Killjoy
As for Cyan, I am utterly confused how he is town reading BE. BE's vote on me was really bad and had absolutely no justification at all. I don't understand how anything I have done speaks of caution. If anything I have added an extreme tag to the normally pedestrian sport of 'fence sitting' as it was. So Cyan explain your BE read to me.
By the way, people have called me wordy every game I have been in so far. I'm just wordy, it's a null tell (everyone loves more self meta, I know). I try to tone it down when it is on my mind but I am often writing other things that require more flair than mafia and it often bleeds in.
Does that mean you would have an opinion on him if you had no clue what typical Cyan is?
If so, what stops you from giving it?
If you are going to wait for Cyan to stop doing typical Cyan things, you might as well wait until the human race goes extinct.
I don't know, I was able to pick up on desperate scum Cyan pretty well my last game with him. I believe that players like Cyan hold a certain power over the game that needs to be handled delicately. Anyway here's my read on Cyan with no assumptions on what a Cyan is:
Cyan's calling someone scum early, okay that's good aggressive play. He is also unafraid to use a line of argument that he openly showed disdain for earlier, and scum don't tend to have the fearlessness to seemingly contradict themselves in such a short span. That's usually a town sentiment.
And that concluded Cyan's short tenure on this earth.
I just didn't bother to say any of that because I have seen a scum cyan capable of such acts and I thought it was pretty null all around!
So anyway since I was probably just being a wanker with KJ, let's move on to another vote on me since I am my own favorite subject:
Open question: does BE's vote on me actually make any sense? The word I am looking for here is cautious. He specifically, out of all of the words in the English language, picked cautious. So maybe I am just being a nutjob here but god damnit I don't feel cautious. Defensive like a champ maybe, but cautious?
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Hmm. I am torn. I strongly dislike Sir Chris posting so far, which seems to be a common trend. But the 2 strongest people against him are ZDS(my top scum read) and KJ(someone that I don't want to currently call scum, but also can't currently call town).
Why is your behavior different in every single game, Sir Chris. Frown.
There's no reason to be upset about this unless you are trying to frame them IMO
Either you don't know me or are scum. That's ok.
First off what do you mean by standing idly by? I pointed out a few people that I was interested in and started talking to them. I also pointed out a bunch of people I thought were town with actual reasons per the WG interaction. I can also elaborate more on them but it's ok for you to ignore that part to make me look bad. (you know, pointing out town isn't something scum will do very often early game because then its harder to lynch people if you are calling everyone town.) I do it because I'm better at finding town then scum. Period.
But either way you are reaching really far here, trying to paint me as doing nothing which is BS.
vote zds
@Everyone else
So the first game I was scum i was against cantripmanner as town and he basically has two posting styles as town based on the effort/how much time he could play. His first post style echoes that he wants to be involved and win. He's town.
I really like this post. He feels genuine here, as if he cannot conceive how someone with any honesty could dare impune his play so far.
Also after everyone telling me that that ZDS is a good player it was probably very naive of me to clear him, but I feel like he did some good honest work with me. It makes more sense for a scum to let me and KJ tear each other down and for scum to fuel that, instead he took the time to state KJ's case for him to try to give me that perspective. I like that.
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Huntz: OP specifically states that VTs are Russian.
Cyan: Thanks for the answer. If you weren't Cyan my read on you *would* be concrete right now. The reason I'm not chomping at the bit for your lynch is that the very moment I'm wrong on you I have to give up my shiny embossed "Able to read Cyan" card, so I want to be more certain than normal.
Wheat, could you explain to me the difference you put on Generic and Cyan when it comes to how willing you are to clear them? Is one simply better than the other in your opinion? This seems to be a departure from your usual MO regarding people who I feel are skilled.
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1. The dissociative state tell is bull*****, at least how you're trying to use it. The way he phrased it makes sense.
2. So what about all the other players attacking their attackers? Is Chris scum for attacking Killjoy? Is Cyan scum for attacking ZDS?
3. I still disagree about imab and BE but I'm fine with that part of your response.
1. Agree to disagree? It would have made more sense, in my opinion, for him to continue to use the terms "we" and "them."
2. Attacking attackers as a scum tell is, like most everything else in this game, a function of context. When you are accused of making a slip and your next move is to attack the attacker instead of explaining your mindset or why you said things the way you did, it's as good as admitting guilt in my book. It shows a mindset of "I can't defend against the attack, so I'll have to attack the attacker instead."
3. Thank you.
Hmm. I am torn. I strongly dislike Sir Chris posting so far, which seems to be a common trend. But the 2 strongest people against him are ZDS(my top scum read) and KJ(someone that I don't want to currently call scum, but also can't currently call town).
Why is your behavior different in every single game, Sir Chris. Frown.
There's no reason to be upset about this unless you are trying to frame them IMO
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2. Attacking attackers as a scum tell is, like most everything else in this game, a function of context. When you are accused of making a slip and your next move is to attack the attacker instead of explaining your mindset or why you said things the way you did, it's as good as admitting guilt in my book. It shows a mindset of "I can't defend against the attack, so I'll have to attack the attacker instead."
Describe in as much detail as possible my attacks on you and ZDS. Go on we'll wait...
No, but I'm feeling better about you right now at least. And worse about WG.
It is probably a bad thing that my top town reads involve people that didn't want to vote for me and my top scum reads all involve people that did. I'm usually good at sifting out which people are genuine in their feelings toward me and which aren't, but I'm not having much success with that right now.
Cyan what do you make of ZDS' mediating when it comes to KJ and myself?
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35 posts into the game and we have 2 real and competing wagons. And one of the people being wagon'ed is voting the other guy.
Vote IMAB
His vote on Hansanator is bad, given that it's a second vote piling on top of a first vote that was clearly not a serious one. Over-explanation of setup theory very early in the game. And lastly, he votes BE2 based on disagreeing with BE2 saying 'that tell is awful'. But we don't even know which tell BE2 is referring to. All in all, this feels like a surprisingly good wagon to be involved in, especially considering how early in the game we are.
The funny thing about that tell is that it is awful.
I wonder if any scum ever has said "I am sad no one voted me."
Doesn't matter. That is an all-around overwhelmingly townKilljoy post. I know this from the pixels and from seeing a number of Killjoys in my time. I will not be voting him ever unless there's, like, a cop shot on him or something.
I think IMAB, wheat, and Seppel seem town. I'm not liking Sir Chris so far.
This is interesting for the sole fact I have the complete opposite opinion as of the time of this post. I am liking Chris over wheat
You just imab is town, but this implies you think that imab is scum. Which is it? And since you don't explicitly mention Seppel, do you think Seppel is scum?
Open question: does BE's vote on me actually make any sense? The word I am looking for here is cautious. He specifically, out of all of the words in the English language, picked cautious. So maybe I am just being a nutjob here but god damnit I don't feel cautious. Defensive like a champ maybe, but cautious?
As someone voting you: Yes, that vote makes sense, because you look super cautious to me too.
You feel increasingly better about him but still want to lynch him? What an odd way to phrase.
I felt increasingly good about them being scum together. I guess I could have phrased that better, but what I meant was that my read was becoming stronger.
Wheat, could you explain to me the difference you put on Generic and Cyan when it comes to how willing you are to clear them? Is one simply better than the other in your opinion? This seems to be a departure from your usual MO regarding people who I feel are skilled.
Generic, for a long time, I just couldn't read. Even now I'm not the best at it, though for a bit I thought I was. Generic I'm usually not willing to clear because I have a hard time reading him more than anything else.
I feel like I'm getting pretty good at reading Cyan but my hesitance stems from the fact that I haven't played against him as town since I've starting saying I'm good at reading him, and therefore if I actually just always think he's scum then I can't say I'm able to read him.
That's the difference. I hope that answers what you're asking, because if not I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.
1. The dissociative state tell is bull*****, at least how you're trying to use it. The way he phrased it makes sense.
2. So what about all the other players attacking their attackers? Is Chris scum for attacking Killjoy? Is Cyan scum for attacking ZDS?
3. I still disagree about imab and BE but I'm fine with that part of your response.
1. Agree to disagree? It would have made more sense, in my opinion, for him to continue to use the terms "we" and "them."
2. Attacking attackers as a scum tell is, like most everything else in this game, a function of context. When you are accused of making a slip and your next move is to attack the attacker instead of explaining your mindset or why you said things the way you did, it's as good as admitting guilt in my book. It shows a mindset of "I can't defend against the attack, so I'll have to attack the attacker instead."
3. Thank you.
1. Maybe.
2. Can you show the difference to me with an example? I want a comparison. Take any of the other players attacking their attackers, and lay out to me why you think it's a different context.
Cyan what do you make of ZDS' mediating when it comes to KJ and myself?
I have no idea, which bugs me.
I mean it's like..is ZDS really just putting himself out there to do damage control for a scumbuddy? This is the most obvious conclusion, but also seems incredibly unlikely for ANY player. But I can't really see them both being town either, and I definitely don't think that those two and IMAB are town. There is at least one scum in those 3, possibly 2.
The reason I asked Wheat is the last time I played with you you town cleared a scum Generic very early, yet here you indicate you wouldn't do that. That doesn't add up to me.
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The reason I asked Wheat is the last time I played with you you town cleared a scum Generic very early, yet here you indicate you wouldn't do that. That doesn't add up to me.
Townclearing Generic was a mistake I don't want to make again. And therefore, I'm avoiding making that mistake again.
Okay, it's just last time you did that you said you wouldn't and then immediately did it again. Maybe it stuck this time.
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Describe in as much detail as possible my attacks on you and ZDS. Go on we'll wait...
FLAMING POST SELF-REDACTED You're joking, right? You're either dense or intentionally mis-repping. ZDS attacks you in #26, I voted you in #35 for the aforementioned slip, Cyan voted you in #38 - ALL for differing reasons. You attack Cyan in #41. You never once even acknowledge my attack and proceed to try to cut at your attackers, namely Cyan. It's all there (or not as the case may be) exactly as I said. Go back and read it. Go on; I'll wait.
Describe in as much detail as possible my attacks on you and ZDS. Go on we'll wait...
FLAMING POST SELF-REDACTED You're joking, right? You're either dense or intentionally mis-repping. ZDS attacks you in #26, I voted you in #35 for the aforementioned slip, Cyan voted you in #38 - ALL for differing reasons. You attack Cyan in #41. You never once even acknowledge my attack and proceed to try to cut at your attackers, namely Cyan. It's all there (or not as the case may be) exactly as I said. Go back and read it. Go on; I'll wait.
You appear to have misread.
Describe in as much detail as possible my attacks on you and zds.
You realize you originally posted that to BF, right? Am I correct in assuming you want me to elaborate on my disassociative tell call? The disassociation comes from beginning with the pronoun of "we," as in a delineation of "we" and "they," and then finishing with a use of the words "Town" and "Mafia." He begins with an inclusive pronoun, seemingly to indicate his belonging to the collective. Suddenly, when having to reference both teams in the same sentence, he is no longer identifying himself as a "we" in the Town. That disassociation is a slip of the tongue (so to speak) because his mind, when forced to compare the two sides in a single thought, is trying to reconcile the fact that he does not belong to the collective "we" of the Town, but is trying to appear as such.
1. Maybe.
2. Can you show the difference to me with an example? I want a comparison. Take any of the other players attacking their attackers, and lay out to me why you think it's a different context.
Would you like a comparison from this very game, or one from a completed game with revealed roles for more context?
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THAT'S THE POINT: THERE AREN'T ANY BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORING THE ATTACK.
Right I ignored you and zds but went after cyan because he's scum. His accusation was utter bull***** while it looked loke you and zds could be scumhunting. You add caveats like context but then don't actually apply it. For example BE calls the tell utilized as crap. I ignored your accusation completely. Cyan called OMGUS scummy and then proceeded to engage in OMGUS. But the only person your not scumreading is the person who' engaged in flippant hypocrisy. Your not showing logical consistency.
You realize you originally posted that to BF, right? Am I correct in assuming you want me to elaborate on my disassociative tell call? The disassociation comes from beginning with the pronoun of "we," as in a delineation of "we" and "they," and then finishing with a use of the words "Town" and "Mafia." He begins with an inclusive pronoun, seemingly to indicate his belonging to the collective. Suddenly, when having to reference both teams in the same sentence, he is no longer identifying himself as a "we" in the Town. That disassociation is a slip of the tongue (so to speak) because his mind, when forced to compare the two sides in a single thought, is trying to reconcile the fact that he does not belong to the collective "we" of the Town, but is trying to appear as such.
1. Maybe.
2. Can you show the difference to me with an example? I want a comparison. Take any of the other players attacking their attackers, and lay out to me why you think it's a different context.
Would you like a comparison from this very game, or one from a completed game with revealed roles for more context?
I want one from specifically this game. I want to know why you feel it's different in specifically the context of this game.
The stifling silence had been there letting the tension to build up for several moments, until it all had been released like prisoner from Siberia. No one really knows what was it that triggered it back then. Some say it was a kopeck dropping, some say it was someone firing a shot from a gun. No one really knows, and it isn't even relevant to this story. What's more important is that something triggered it, and that launched a chain reaction no one had ever seen before in our beloved Motherland.
It was a start of revolution so forceful that no one had seen since 1917.
Cyan a double voter? Interesting. Should have lead with that.
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Hmm. I am torn. I strongly dislike Sir Chris posting so far, which seems to be a common trend. But the 2 strongest people against him are ZDS(my top scum read) and KJ(someone that I don't want to currently call scum, but also can't currently call town).
Why is your behavior different in every single game, Sir Chris. Frown.
There's no reason to be upset about this unless you are trying to frame them IMO
...what?
To rephrase, why are you upset Chris changes his behavior every game? Doesn't everyone do that anyway?
THAT'S THE POINT: THERE AREN'T ANY BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORING THE ATTACK.
Right I ignored you and zds but went after cyan because he's scum. His accusation was utter bull***** while it looked loke you and zds could be scumhunting. You add caveats like context but then don't actually apply it. For example BE calls the tell utilized as crap. I ignored your accusation completely. Cyan called OMGUS scummy and then proceeded to engage in OMGUS. But the only person your not scumreading is the person who' engaged in flippant hypocrisy. Your not showing logical consistency.
Thing is, if you thought it looked likeZDS and I could be scumhunting, (hedged language duly noted) then the Townie response would have been to explain why you used the language you did. By ignoring it you show that you have no explanation for it. By attacking Cyan you show that you don't have a response for ANY of the attacks raised against you and show your plan of defense is to attempt to discredit your attacker instead of the attack itself. This is a very common scum tactic. I don't care if BE, who literally went out of his way to tell us how dumb he is, doesn't agree with me. To your so-called OMGUS point on Cyan: he attacked you first, and thus cannot be labelled as OMGUS. Also, OMGUS does not just mean a series of events where Player A votes Player B, then Player B votes Player A, but where Player B votes Player A specifically because Player A attacked him first. You're not showing any ability to comprehend what logical consistency even means.
I want one from specifically this game. I want to know why you feel it's different in specifically the context of this game.
Sure thing. See Chris's post here. Specifically the end where he addresses KJ. He acknowledges KJ's points against him, defends against them, but then goes on to display a logical process of thought by which he comes to the conclusion that KJ is scum based on the manner in which he attacked him. (I'm not saying I agree with that thought process necessarily, merely that it in and of itself is not inherently scummy) The contextual difference here is that Chris is both defending himself and attacking his attacker, but not defending himself BY attacking his attacker.
1. The dissociative state tell is bull*****, at least how you're trying to use it. The way he phrased it makes sense.
2. So what about all the other players attacking their attackers? Is Chris scum for attacking Killjoy? Is Cyan scum for attacking ZDS?
3. I still disagree about imab and BE but I'm fine with that part of your response.
1. Agree to disagree? It would have made more sense, in my opinion, for him to continue to use the terms "we" and "them."
2. Attacking attackers as a scum tell is, like most everything else in this game, a function of context. When you are accused of making a slip and your next move is to attack the attacker instead of explaining your mindset or why you said things the way you did, it's as good as admitting guilt in my book. It shows a mindset of "I can't defend against the attack, so I'll have to attack the attacker instead."
3. Thank you.
Open question: does BE's vote on me actually make any sense? The word I am looking for here is cautious. He specifically, out of all of the words in the English language, picked cautious. So maybe I am just being a nutjob here but god damnit I don't feel cautious. Defensive like a champ maybe, but cautious?
Probably has more to do with your writing style than with how you are playing.
Speaking of Burning_Earth, did you conclude anything from your exchange on page 3?
@WG's 236 - you must be confusing me with someone else. I have not said anywhere that I think imab is town. I state light suspicion of him in 53/54 and again in 219. Or is "bad" considered town in your world and "good" considered mafia? You're confusing the ***** out of me dude.
THAT'S THE POINT: THERE AREN'T ANY BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORING THE ATTACK.
Right I ignored you and zds but went after cyan because he's scum. His accusation was utter bull***** while it looked loke you and zds could be scumhunting. You add caveats like context but then don't actually apply it. For example BE calls the tell utilized as crap. I ignored your accusation completely. Cyan called OMGUS scummy and then proceeded to engage in OMGUS. But the only person your not scumreading is the person who' engaged in flippant hypocrisy. Your not showing logical consistency.
I lol'ed. You realize that ZDS accusation against you was one of the points that I made. So..tell us again how my accusation was 'utter bull*****' and ZDS 'could be scumhunting'.
And BE is right. Random voting someone not in the game is not a tell. It simply is not. If you think it is, you are flatly incorrect. This idea is so stupid that I don't even know where it came from. Like it is seriously just painfully ridiculous.
I understand why it could appear that I was being hypocritical in my vote on ZDS, after calling you out. The difference is that your vote on me was demonstrably awful, and my vote on ZDS was not(but his case was, which also helps).
And you're not even concerned that ZDS, one of the people you are proclaiming as town from all of this, has given up on me and moved on to Sir Chris instead.
I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt at this point, because I don't think that all of you, ZDS, and KJ can be scum..and those latter 2 seem far more likely than you..but you're making it pretty difficult.
@Blindfaeth: No, everyone definitely does not do that. I would say that virtually no one does this. Everyone has patterns that they fall into as scum, town, neutral, whatever. And even further breakdowns for various roles(cop doc vig etc). Meta cases happen for a reason.
@Plow:
Quote from you »
I don't care if BE, who literally went out of his way to tell us how dumb he is, doesn't agree with me.
I almost spit my drink out laughing at this.
Also, I think that IMAB is saying that I was being hypocritical for accusing him of OMGUS, and then exhibiting similar behavior re: ZDS after ZDS moved from the IMAB wagon to voting me. And this certainly happened. But I've pretty clearly detailed why I felt that ZDS vote of me was bad, and some of the reason I voted him was tied up in his unvoting of IMAB in the first place.
The funny thing, my child, is that no one really knows accurately what is correct and what is not, when it comes to history. So much information has been lost or altered, even though it's been only few decades. Some of the inaccuracy is intentional, some are not.
Sometimes, however, history can be fixed when discoveries are made.
(Sorry. Σ(Votes) 1.2 fixed. Please let me know if you see any more mistakes.)
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
This is interesting for the sole fact I have the complete opposite opinion as of the time of this post. I am liking Chris over wheat
I just sat front row and seen what happens when someone town clears a scum Cyan early and tries to backtrack on it later on. Iso got skewered.. You say that it costs nothing to have an opinion and then to go back, and that's true often, but I don't process so simply. I don't go oh well Cyan hasn't bothered me so he is town I go Cyan hasn't bothered me...yet. There seems to be some misconception going on here that I didn't speak an opinion or something. I said exactly what I meant. I don't often operate in absolutes. This is not the first time I have had this conversation since coming here, though. People don't seem to like me much day one when I am town. But like... I feel like I operate on a different field of thought early on compared to other people or something. Like I don't... I just don't go town and scum on people who I know are skilled. I can't. It's not how I think. It is ingrained in me. Sorry I keep talking about myself but I feel the need to explain this so people stop acting as if I am snickering in the back withholding something.
I keep catching scum making arguments against me day one, so maybe it is a bit of hubris on my part. If KJ is town then he will show it in earnest debate with me over the subject of his observations about me. I like to fight. Town loses nothing by me forcing conflict with someone. If KJ is town then fighting with him will make me see that. On the other hand reading over your posts and reflecting back on KJ's posts make me realize I was being a bit overzealous in attacking KJ. I uh, don't really have much of a leg to stand on and I was just being defensive. ##unvote: Killjoy
As for Cyan, I am utterly confused how he is town reading BE. BE's vote on me was really bad and had absolutely no justification at all. I don't understand how anything I have done speaks of caution. If anything I have added an extreme tag to the normally pedestrian sport of 'fence sitting' as it was. So Cyan explain your BE read to me.
By the way, people have called me wordy every game I have been in so far. I'm just wordy, it's a null tell (everyone loves more self meta, I know). I try to tone it down when it is on my mind but I am often writing other things that require more flair than mafia and it often bleeds in.
I don't know, I was able to pick up on desperate scum Cyan pretty well my last game with him. I believe that players like Cyan hold a certain power over the game that needs to be handled delicately. Anyway here's my read on Cyan with no assumptions on what a Cyan is:
Cyan's calling someone scum early, okay that's good aggressive play. He is also unafraid to use a line of argument that he openly showed disdain for earlier, and scum don't tend to have the fearlessness to seemingly contradict themselves in such a short span. That's usually a town sentiment.
And that concluded Cyan's short tenure on this earth.
I just didn't bother to say any of that because I have seen a scum cyan capable of such acts and I thought it was pretty null all around!
So anyway since I was probably just being a wanker with KJ, let's move on to another vote on me since I am my own favorite subject:
Open question: does BE's vote on me actually make any sense? The word I am looking for here is cautious. He specifically, out of all of the words in the English language, picked cautious. So maybe I am just being a nutjob here but god damnit I don't feel cautious. Defensive like a champ maybe, but cautious?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
There's no reason to be upset about this unless you are trying to frame them IMO
You feel increasingly better about him but still want to lynch him? What an odd way to phrase.
Also, I like killjoys 153/155
I really like this post. He feels genuine here, as if he cannot conceive how someone with any honesty could dare impune his play so far.
Also after everyone telling me that that ZDS is a good player it was probably very naive of me to clear him, but I feel like he did some good honest work with me. It makes more sense for a scum to let me and KJ tear each other down and for scum to fuel that, instead he took the time to state KJ's case for him to try to give me that perspective. I like that.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Did I mention I like this guy? We are reading the game very similarly.
At hawk, why am I and hunt in your like list in 162 when I'd only posted twice and he'd posted very little, can you explain?
Wheat, could you explain to me the difference you put on Generic and Cyan when it comes to how willing you are to clear them? Is one simply better than the other in your opinion? This seems to be a departure from your usual MO regarding people who I feel are skilled.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
1. Agree to disagree? It would have made more sense, in my opinion, for him to continue to use the terms "we" and "them."
2. Attacking attackers as a scum tell is, like most everything else in this game, a function of context. When you are accused of making a slip and your next move is to attack the attacker instead of explaining your mindset or why you said things the way you did, it's as good as admitting guilt in my book. It shows a mindset of "I can't defend against the attack, so I'll have to attack the attacker instead."
3. Thank you.
I have no idea what you're talking about, nor can I find it in any post in this thread.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
...what?
(I don't get it either)
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Describe in as much detail as possible my attacks on you and ZDS. Go on we'll wait...
It is probably a bad thing that my top town reads involve people that didn't want to vote for me and my top scum reads all involve people that did. I'm usually good at sifting out which people are genuine in their feelings toward me and which aren't, but I'm not having much success with that right now.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
You just imab is town, but this implies you think that imab is scum. Which is it? And since you don't explicitly mention Seppel, do you think Seppel is scum?
As someone voting you: Yes, that vote makes sense, because you look super cautious to me too.
I felt increasingly good about them being scum together. I guess I could have phrased that better, but what I meant was that my read was becoming stronger.
Generic, for a long time, I just couldn't read. Even now I'm not the best at it, though for a bit I thought I was. Generic I'm usually not willing to clear because I have a hard time reading him more than anything else.
I feel like I'm getting pretty good at reading Cyan but my hesitance stems from the fact that I haven't played against him as town since I've starting saying I'm good at reading him, and therefore if I actually just always think he's scum then I can't say I'm able to read him.
That's the difference. I hope that answers what you're asking, because if not I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.
1. Maybe.
2. Can you show the difference to me with an example? I want a comparison. Take any of the other players attacking their attackers, and lay out to me why you think it's a different context.
I have no idea, which bugs me.
I mean it's like..is ZDS really just putting himself out there to do damage control for a scumbuddy? This is the most obvious conclusion, but also seems incredibly unlikely for ANY player. But I can't really see them both being town either, and I definitely don't think that those two and IMAB are town. There is at least one scum in those 3, possibly 2.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Townclearing Generic was a mistake I don't want to make again. And therefore, I'm avoiding making that mistake again.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
are you scum
V/LA Friday-Sunday this week
Caprice is my strong suit, after all.
Or my weak suit.
It's my only suit, anyways.
As an aside, ZDS is prone to saving buddies.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Describe in as much detail as possible my attacks on you and zds.
You realize you originally posted that to BF, right? Am I correct in assuming you want me to elaborate on my disassociative tell call? The disassociation comes from beginning with the pronoun of "we," as in a delineation of "we" and "they," and then finishing with a use of the words "Town" and "Mafia." He begins with an inclusive pronoun, seemingly to indicate his belonging to the collective. Suddenly, when having to reference both teams in the same sentence, he is no longer identifying himself as a "we" in the Town. That disassociation is a slip of the tongue (so to speak) because his mind, when forced to compare the two sides in a single thought, is trying to reconcile the fact that he does not belong to the collective "we" of the Town, but is trying to appear as such.
Would you like a comparison from this very game, or one from a completed game with revealed roles for more context?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
How many games of mafia have you played?
Outdated Mafia Stats
Why does this matter? Serious question.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Right I ignored you and zds but went after cyan because he's scum. His accusation was utter bull***** while it looked loke you and zds could be scumhunting. You add caveats like context but then don't actually apply it. For example BE calls the tell utilized as crap. I ignored your accusation completely. Cyan called OMGUS scummy and then proceeded to engage in OMGUS. But the only person your not scumreading is the person who' engaged in flippant hypocrisy. Your not showing logical consistency.
I want one from specifically this game. I want to know why you feel it's different in specifically the context of this game.
The stifling silence had been there letting the tension to build up for several moments, until it all had been released like prisoner from Siberia. No one really knows what was it that triggered it back then. Some say it was a kopeck dropping, some say it was someone firing a shot from a gun. No one really knows, and it isn't even relevant to this story. What's more important is that something triggered it, and that launched a chain reaction no one had ever seen before in our beloved Motherland.
It was a start of revolution so forceful that no one had seen since 1917.
Cyan (1): IMAB
IMAB (2): Plowshares, KamikazeArchon
Burning_Earth2 (1): Blindfaeth
ZDS (2): Cyan, hawk
Plowshares (1): Seppel
Sir Chris (3): Wheat_Grinder, Killjoy, Burning_Earth2
Wheat_Grinder (1): Cantripmancer
hawk (1): ZDS
KamikazeArchon (1): Huntzilla
Not voting: hansanator, Roowastaken, Sir Chris
With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch!
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
How experienced someone is matters because different tells would apply.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Unvote, vote BlindFaeth.
Tell me more about what you like about the slip on page 1.
To rephrase, why are you upset Chris changes his behavior every game? Doesn't everyone do that anyway?
Sure thing. See Chris's post here. Specifically the end where he addresses KJ. He acknowledges KJ's points against him, defends against them, but then goes on to display a logical process of thought by which he comes to the conclusion that KJ is scum based on the manner in which he attacked him. (I'm not saying I agree with that thought process necessarily, merely that it in and of itself is not inherently scummy) The contextual difference here is that Chris is both defending himself and attacking his attacker, but not defending himself BY attacking his attacker.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I think it was a stretch for WG to call it bull***** with such confidence personally
Wtf? Then I'm "beginning to feel good about WG"
I lol'ed. You realize that ZDS accusation against you was one of the points that I made. So..tell us again how my accusation was 'utter bull*****' and ZDS 'could be scumhunting'.
And BE is right. Random voting someone not in the game is not a tell. It simply is not. If you think it is, you are flatly incorrect. This idea is so stupid that I don't even know where it came from. Like it is seriously just painfully ridiculous.
I understand why it could appear that I was being hypocritical in my vote on ZDS, after calling you out. The difference is that your vote on me was demonstrably awful, and my vote on ZDS was not(but his case was, which also helps).
And you're not even concerned that ZDS, one of the people you are proclaiming as town from all of this, has given up on me and moved on to Sir Chris instead.
I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt at this point, because I don't think that all of you, ZDS, and KJ can be scum..and those latter 2 seem far more likely than you..but you're making it pretty difficult.
@Blindfaeth: No, everyone definitely does not do that. I would say that virtually no one does this. Everyone has patterns that they fall into as scum, town, neutral, whatever. And even further breakdowns for various roles(cop doc vig etc). Meta cases happen for a reason.
@Plow:
I almost spit my drink out laughing at this.
Also, I think that IMAB is saying that I was being hypocritical for accusing him of OMGUS, and then exhibiting similar behavior re: ZDS after ZDS moved from the IMAB wagon to voting me. And this certainly happened. But I've pretty clearly detailed why I felt that ZDS vote of me was bad, and some of the reason I voted him was tied up in his unvoting of IMAB in the first place.
Sometimes, however, history can be fixed when discoveries are made.
(Sorry. Σ(Votes) 1.2 fixed. Please let me know if you see any more mistakes.)