I glanced through BE's scumgame and I agree that there's a world of difference between his posts there and here. More specifically, he seemed to be forcing reasons to suspect people there while he seems a lot more relaxed in this game even if a bit awkward.
I'm not sure of any of my other reads just yet. Kittycupcake seems town. I initially though Sepel looked scummy but his vote on me was townish - I think scum are less likely to draw attention to people who haven't been under suspicion previously. Would like his reasons explained though.
I'm mildly annoyed that you took the time to quote my post and accuse me while at the same time completely ignore my question. It's not a secret is it? For gods sake can someone just tell me who curse is lol? No one on the player roster by that name.
Curse is the owner of this website, as of ~1 year ago
Holy *****, I just looked at the first 10 pages of Castlevania and anyone who thinks B_E is scum here needs to go check that out, themselves. His tone is DRASTICALLY different between here and there.
Hell, if you don't have the patience or time for the first 10 pages, just look at his breaking of RVS. It's like black and white.
I expect everyone to unvote B_E in short order. I'll be white knighting him for the rest of the game, don't mind me.
Are you being serious right now? You expect me to drop all suspicion on him for the rest of the game because of his meta? Based on one game?
I honestly do not know where to begin to explain my problems with this line of reasoning.
Perhaps I should make myself a little clearer: I've been in 1-3 games with townB_E and this game falls far more in line with how he plays as town than as he does as scum. Castlevania is his only completed scum game, from what I can see, so I'm not able to provide more proof - but as I said, the difference is night and day.
Should I hunt for some townB_E games so you can see what I'm referring to?
I would like to believe Iso about B_E2s meta, but I really have a hard time seeing how he can be town right now. Calling people out for not scumhunting while he has posts that read like this
It's not. Believe me, if I weren't convinced B_E were town, I'd be voting him for the hypocrisy, as I find that's often hugely scummy.
Quote from Huntzilla »
I will most likely be sheeping you most of the game... or Seppel... He seems to be on point this game.
Please show me all of the posts that Seppel has made in this game that make you believe he is "en pointe", with a brief explanation (1-3 sentences) explaining how each has given you that impression.
You'll have to explain that one to me when we're not in the middle of a game.
I think we're diverging on theory points, here, and getting into semantics - even if Hunt wasn't necessarily lynched, there's still the probability that he'd claim a role that would deter his lynch (if town) and that would still further the mafia's win condition.
Also, did you honestly expect anyone to blatantly counterclaim Seppel at this juncture in the game? At most, I'd expect someone to do something silly or breadcrumby, such as posting La Roux's "Bulletproof".
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
(Not to say I'm counterclaiming Seppel - I'm just rather skeptical that his role can exist with mine in a Mini. But the nature of the Trump mechanic may prove me wrong, so it's not an avenue I want to pursue at the moment.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm mildly annoyed that you took the time to quote my post and accuse me while at the same time completely ignore my question. It's not a secret is it? For gods sake can someone just tell me who curse is lol? No one on the player roster by that name.
Curse is the owner of this website, as of ~1 year ago
Ty.
I'm not sure that it makes sense now that I'm informed.....
Since we've discussed B_E's meta I think it's only fair that I bring up iso's. The reason I'm isolating iso is because I am vaguely aware of how people are sort of blindly trusting her(? sorry if boy, please confirm ^_^;) this game -- myself included. I don't like trusting people for no apparent reason.
I don't know if I could have found a better game to review, but I kind of suck at the search function TBH. But this one may suffice, it does have three players in common with our current game -- Iso (obviously), Kamikaze, and Seppel. Iso was night killed night 1, so it isn't too intense of a read-through. She was town in that game, and very aggressive against ika off the bat. Making him emotionally explode before clearing him as town. I see some similarities but differences, this is why I hate meta lol. No two situations are the same. But I do see a fundamental difference in the length of time iso spent in a joking tone in our current game comparatively, she got very serious very quickly in vagrant story. I guess I'd like to hear kamikaze and seppel's opinions in particular, since they were in that game. And one was town, one was mafia, so it might shed some unique insight from different perspectives.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for a lynch or anything by a longshot -- in fact, I'm sorta afraid I bit off more than I can chew But I try to keep a reasonable rational perspective and that includes reviewing people I'm more or less trusting every now and then. I can't stand having the wool pulled over my eyes
I'm untargetable. If hearts are trump, I can copy my untargetability at night to another target player for a single night. I have unlimited(!) shots of this.
So let's make hearts trump. Someone claim your full role in your next post if you're a badass and want autotown status + untargetability.
I'm not sure how this was ever supposed to be balanced.
This one struck me as strictly better than his usual day one post. Instead of calling for a massclaim he just claims his own and moves on. He does have a little snag about not understanding the mechanic, but to me that points to town!Sep. Scum!Sep would be sure to know the rules, and use them to his advantage.
It changes once every four days, in a mini? And it's random what it changes to? That's stupid. I thought I saw people deciding on what the set the trump to.
Oh god I'm going to be alive until the endgame. Oh god.
I too got the vibes from Ocean's initial few posts that were blind votes. Sep voting someone for what I can assess to be legit reasons points to town!Sep.
It changes once every four days, in a mini? And it's random what it changes to? That's stupid. I thought I saw people deciding on what the set the trump to.
Oh god I'm going to be alive until the endgame. Oh god.
That's assuming you don't get lynched
I'm not convinced like everyone else seems to be. This would be a perfect scum ploy tbh. "Oh I can't be targeted at night - how convenient, it will appear that way since I'm the scum killing everyone" and "no one will try to lynch me because as TCM pointed out, my role is kinda better doctor-ish"
I'm not saying I'm necessarily suspicious of you, but I'm not enchanted and if you're bull*****ting I will see through it.
I like you.
This reminded me of the time that I was having an exchange with Sep in Deathspeaker and he instantly came back with, "You didn't believe me, you are town."
These actually seem like honest reads, though I do agree with you Iso that I would like for him to explain them more to see if they are in agreement with what I have in my head.
If he is taking notes, he is trying. I believe Sep trying is more tied to him being Town. He had a long string of scum games and I think he was burnt out from being scum, and I think him trying is one of the surest signs that he is town at this point.
So, tl;dr of it all is...
Sep seems to be actually caring about solving the game, he's taking notes, and hasn't gone all "massclaim crazy." I think those are all solid Town!Sep traits...
Yeah, I was still mostly being silly at that point and hadn't gone back to do any real analysis.
These:
Quote from KCC »
Minor is a good place to start. -What do you see?
Quote from KCC »
I like your thinking, but a lynch in just 3 days is so unlikely to happen around here, that I doubt it even crossed his mind. I wouldn't hold this minor carelessness against him.
Also, it's probably like 15 or 20 mafia*.
...were being "silly", without analyzing at all?
I did say "mostly" being silly. Anyway, BF was the one doing real analysis here, I was just talking to him since we were on at the same time. The point is, I hadn't gone back through the early game to look for things or form my own reads yet.
Are the other three acceptable? Is Seppel the only person you felt warranted to respond to?
Yeah, the rest of his list is fine. -I would have commented, otherwise.
Likewise, if there were other posts in the area I wanted to respond to at that point, I would have.
I'm untargetable. If hearts are trump, I can copy my untargetability at night to another target player for a single night. I have unlimited(!) shots of this.
So let's make hearts trump. Someone claim your full role in your next post if you're a badass and want autotown status + untargetability.
I'm not sure how this was ever supposed to be balanced.
This one struck me as strictly better than his usual day one post. Instead of calling for a massclaim he just claims his own and moves on. He does have a little snag about not understanding the mechanic, but to me that points to town!Sep. Scum!Sep would be sure to know the rules, and use them to his advantage.
It changes once every four days, in a mini? And it's random what it changes to? That's stupid. I thought I saw people deciding on what the set the trump to.
Oh god I'm going to be alive until the endgame. Oh god.
I too got the vibes from Ocean's initial few posts that were blind votes. Sep voting someone for what I can assess to be legit reasons points to town!Sep.
It changes once every four days, in a mini? And it's random what it changes to? That's stupid. I thought I saw people deciding on what the set the trump to.
Oh god I'm going to be alive until the endgame. Oh god.
That's assuming you don't get lynched
I'm not convinced like everyone else seems to be. This would be a perfect scum ploy tbh. "Oh I can't be targeted at night - how convenient, it will appear that way since I'm the scum killing everyone" and "no one will try to lynch me because as TCM pointed out, my role is kinda better doctor-ish"
I'm not saying I'm necessarily suspicious of you, but I'm not enchanted and if you're bull*****ting I will see through it.
I like you.
This reminded me of the time that I was having an exchange with Sep in Deathspeaker and he instantly came back with, "You didn't believe me, you are town."
These actually seem like honest reads, though I do agree with you Iso that I would like for him to explain them more to see if they are in agreement with what I have in my head.
If he is taking notes, he is trying. I believe Sep trying is more tied to him being Town. He had a long string of scum games and I think he was burnt out from being scum, and I think him trying is one of the surest signs that he is town at this point.
So, tl;dr of it all is...
Sep seems to be actually caring about solving the game, he's taking notes, and hasn't gone all "massclaim crazy." I think those are all solid Town!Sep traits...
Tl;dr
Just kidding! I did find seppels "I like you" response to my minor harassment oddly calming.
@KCC, who is your second strongest?
Also, thanks for saving me the humiliation of asking your gender too. You just never know, a lot of people assume I'm female based on my screename and wiring style
I did say "mostly" being silly. Anyway, BF was the one doing real analysis here, I was just talking to him since we were on at the same time. The point is, I hadn't gone back through the early game to look for things or form my own reads yet.
But you had clearly seen my posts at that point, and chose not to respond to them. In fact, you proved that with the following:
Come on, you know you want to.
TCM and Iso are clearly scum now.
You clearly had me in your sites. I am still not seeing why it took both Iso and BE2 to throw a vote at me before you decided to follow through. Why did you not vote me or Iso after the previous vote? You also haven't made a single original point against me? Why are you voting me?
Quote from Blindfaeth »
@TCM, why are you surprised he has confident town reads 195 posts in and then go on to affirm your own confidence in seppel, isn't that just as odd?
I believe he is town, because he claimed a role where I thought of three roles that would have counterclaimed him immediately. I don't believe a scum Seppel, even one that was trying to fake being spontaneous would be bold enough to risk the likelihood of at least three relatively common town roles counterclaiming his ass. Iso's "counterclaim, without claiming" doesn't count, and I have already mentioned how much I despised that.
Even believing Seppel is town, that still wouldn't justify sheeping him blindly. Hunt stated not only does he feel confidant enough to feel they both are town, he thinks that they are completely infallible.
lol I have to agree -- even just the first page is totally different mannerisms from BE. He's a lot more active & aggressive. This is a year ago, but it's definitely enough to give me pause.
unvote for now
voting emo_pinata in hopes of getting more (non-meme) content to analyze
This doesn't make sense. Telling someone you're voting them for pressure is self-defeating. I looked over Blindfaeth's other posts and I noticed that all the stances are soft. Blindfaeth has told us he's coming from a site with fast Days and rapid lynches - I would expect the default town mindset to be aggressive and trying to catch scum faster, not gently poking around. I think this indicates that Blindfaeth isn't actually committing to finding scum, and is more interested in being a nonthreatening presence.
Even believing Seppel is town, that still wouldn't justify sheeping him blindly. Hunt stated not only does he feel confidant enough to feel they both are town, he thinks that they are completely infallible.
I wouldn't say they are completely infallible. But TCM, you remember the end XKCD... My reads are freaking junk at times. At this point I am trying to learn the best I can. Iso has been giving me townvibes, as has Sep. And that hardly EVER happens for me and Sep. So either I am completely wrong like usual, or not. But for right now, sheeping is one of the best plays I have. Like I said though, Iso first... and then MAYBE Sep. I will continue to look for scum my way while doing so, and I am not scared to go against their reads. We will just see where the game goes. But I definitely use the more experienced players as the basis for my theories and reads in the early part of the game.
Since we've discussed B_E's meta I think it's only fair that I bring up iso's. The reason I'm isolating iso is because I am vaguely aware of how people are sort of blindly trusting her(? sorry if boy, please confirm ^_^;) this game -- myself included. I don't like trusting people for no apparent reason.
I don't know if I could have found a better game to review, but I kind of suck at the search function TBH. But this one may suffice, it does have three players in common with our current game -- Iso (obviously), Kamikaze, and Seppel. Iso was night killed night 1, so it isn't too intense of a read-through. She was town in that game, and very aggressive against ika off the bat. Making him emotionally explode before clearing him as town. I see some similarities but differences, this is why I hate meta lol. No two situations are the same. But I do see a fundamental difference in the length of time iso spent in a joking tone in our current game comparatively, she got very serious very quickly in vagrant story. I guess I'd like to hear kamikaze and seppel's opinions in particular, since they were in that game. And one was town, one was mafia, so it might shed some unique insight from different perspectives.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for a lynch or anything by a longshot -- in fact, I'm sorta afraid I bit off more than I can chew But I try to keep a reasonable rational perspective and that includes reviewing people I'm more or less trusting every now and then. I can't stand having the wool pulled over my eyes
(I'm a dude. I think KCC and godot are our only female Mafia players at present, though I know fulcrum also is - she hasn't played here in a while - and mayhaps Scarlet Rage, as well? But Scarlet was from MafiaScum and I don't even remember what he or she identified as. And I'm still confused about HookerPunch.)
Nah, your assessment of my early game is fair - and I will say that I typically find it harder to break RVS as scum. That said, I think the fact that I was uncertain as to which direction I wanted to take the opening play of the game is actually a point in favor of me being town, as it means I'm not making decisions before I have information to base them on. WitchHunt was my most recent completed scum game, but I don't think that's useable data for comparison, here, as the opening of WitchHunt was 9/10ths mechanics/optimal play discussion given the game was an open setup. There wasn't anything to jump on someone for because of the lack of alignment-indicative posts. Here's a more comparable game: Pope Mafia. In Pope Mafia, I ended RVS with my first post (or at least, attempted to). My playstyle is largely based on my emotional state + IRL on-goings + the status of the game in question. So while I do tend to be more choosy with my RVS-breaking as scum, I think the game I just linked you to is sufficient proof that this isn't always the case and that I simply wanted more people to post in this game.
-
@Huntzilla: Really. You expect scumSeppel to pay attention? I can probably dig up at least 3 games where he hasn't.
Why do you think going "massclaim-crazy" is a scumSeppel trait?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
(I'm a dude. I think KCC and godot are our only female Mafia players at present, though I know fulcrum also is - she hasn't played here in a while - and mayhaps Scarlet Rage, as well? But Scarlet was from MafiaScum and I don't even remember what he or she identified as. And I'm still confused about HookerPunch.)
@Huntzilla: Really. You expect scumSeppel to pay attention? I can probably dig up at least 3 games where he hasn't.
Why do you think going "massclaim-crazy" is a scumSeppel trait?
(So for the female players discussion, I wanted to add that I am pretty darn sure both Bur and Sepiriel are female. Sepi more assuredly.)
I thought I had argued that scum!Seppel would not pay attention and that town!Seppel would? Unless you missed a word in there...
"Massclaim crazy" Seppel I thought was his lazy way of trying to out as much information for the scum team as possible. In very few instances does the mass claim actually help town solve the game. So whenever Seppel goes down the massclaim road, I feel he is just being lazy. You know him best though... is this accurate?
And yet, my action (or lackthereof) was the only one that got a vote from you. Why did none of those other actions justify even a pressure vote? I can only assume your vote on Dan was still RVS, or you don't realize wanting to break the RVS is completely irrelevant towards alignment.
And yet, my action (or lackthereof) was the only one that got a vote from you. Why did none of those other actions justify even a pressure vote? I can only assume your vote on Dan was still RVS, or you don't realize wanting to break the RVS is completely irrelevant towards alignment.
Sorry about that TCM, I did not see that part before.
I did not realize that wanting to break RVS is alignment neutral. I really meant what I said, Scum fear RVS. They often come across awkward in an attempt to appear naturally funny or joking. It's similar to when you see scum self vote in RVS.
Those other actions did not require the additional pressure of a vote. They certainly could have, if I did not like the answers. I am not a fan of people trying to control what I do with my vote. My vote is my weapon, and I can use it the way I want to. Thank you for the concern though...
So then, aside from the disappearing act (the only verbal confirmation you gave for voting me), why do you believe me to me scum?
Aside from the disappearing act, at this point it boils down to your tone, which has been increasingly condescending and irritable.
See post 219 for an example of this...
Also,
If you are interrogating me based on overkindness, why aren't you doing the same to Blindfaeth? See post 201 for an example of that...
lol I have to agree -- even just the first page is totally different mannerisms from BE. He's a lot more active & aggressive. This is a year ago, but it's definitely enough to give me pause.
unvote for now
voting emo_pinata in hopes of getting more (non-meme) content to analyze
*snip*
Blindfaeth's other posts and I noticed that all the stances are soft.
*snip*
@kamikaze - I like your use of the word 'soft'. Were you and ep throwing that word around in your chat room today? What an odd way to phrase something.
I disagree I'm a non-threatening presence - in fact, perhaps you're intimidated by me because I found you out day one based on your strange obligatory need to vote iso before you left for vacation.
unvote
Vote kamikaze
My vote for emo was simply to express I'm dissatisfied with his level of useful posts, which still are next to none.
Re: my home forum, three people would already be dead by now and I'd have a lot more data at my fingertips. We still haven't managed to lynch anyone, so I'm just as clueless as any day one. But no, I'm not aggressive by nature - I'm rather rational.
Aside from the disappearing act, at this point it boils down to your tone, which has been increasingly condescending and irritable.
Irritable? Yes. Condescending? ....not so much. And even if you are correct, when did Condescending/Irritable = must be scum? You were also voting me several posts before your "example", so do you have a post of mine that showed this tone before you voted me?
Aside from the disappearing act, at this point it boils down to your tone, which has been increasingly condescending and irritable.
Irritable? Yes. Condescending? ....not so much. And even if you are correct, when did Condescending/Irritable = must be scum? You were also voting me several posts before your "example", so do you have a post of mine that showed this tone before you voted me?
To be fair, your irritation with the votes and pressure could certainly come from a town perspective. What makes it scummy in this case TCM is the fact that I have only ever seen you calm and collected, even under a little pressure. Also, you yourself started the argument that early Day 1 wagons normally fizzle, and yours was not even a "wagon." So why so much emotion when it comes to this particular vote?
Here is the LAST post before you were busy with RL stuff:
Or, you potentially can't see how you allow your hubris to guide you. You already convinced yourself that your "trap" would guarantee scum, you had to create this narrative that my posts are coming from an upset vibe.
You're still pointedly avoiding the most important question about this I've asked you.
Which is?
If you are referring to this:
What has changed about what Huntzilla posted since my vote on him was revealed to be a trap?
I figured the: "I am watching to other people" was clear enough. I didn't actually think Hunt was scum. Like I said, his friendliness I thought was a subtle indication, I was seeing if there was a bit of a reaction. I figured you saw something else.
Not intentionally. Smile But I also know that I have a propensity for getting under people's skin.
I find you to be amusing. For whatever God forsaken reason, you seem to have a gift for finding mafia, which leads you to so confidently proclaim people scum. I mean, I am just a regular guy, and even the few people I am/was watching, I only had a mild suspicion. You clearly in less than a 100 posts caught me. If you are scum though, than obviously this entire conversation we are having is merely your bravado.
I think this is scum bravado. The only reason you're not in danger of being lynched is because B_E is taking pressure off of you by derping about.
And how would you expect me to react if town? "Sorry buddy, but you got the wrong guy?" Also, is that really the only reason I would have to not fear a lynch?
Quote from BE2 »
DID YOU NOT READ THIS POST???
Calm down. Your post didn't exist when I made my last one. I just got distracted by path, and let it lay there for a while. From Xkcd mafia:
Quote from Iso »
I know that you've always been the self-declared "thriver of late-game analysis"
I had one more, but forgot that game is still ongoing. I suppose you will just have to take my word on it.
This post has the same tone, irritability, and condescension as the later ones. It was just directed at Iso instead of in my direction. It came from 4 days ago, long before my vote and we both went away.
I have a townread on Iso from his reads and stances. Pointing out BF's townslip for one. Whiteknighting Burning_Earth based on meta when he could have let Burning_Earth continue to be a distraction. His conviction in his TCM read. All of those read town.
BF is a weaker townread based on how transparent he is. I agree somewhat with the townslip although it is not cut and dry. Beyond that, he's eager to move the game forward.
I've changed my mind on BE since my initial suspicion. I'll explain this later.
I apologize for such a quick turn of the name, but my username has been changed. I was waiting for a lapse in games, but somehow always found myself in at least one.
If you still want to refer to me as TCM for this game, that is fine with me.
(So for the female players discussion, I wanted to add that I am pretty darn sure both Bur and Sepiriel are female. Sepi more assuredly.)
Both Bur and Sepiriel are male.
Quote from Huntzilla »
I thought I had argued that scum!Seppel would not pay attention and that town!Seppel would? Unless you missed a word in there...
You're right, I did - but townSeppel also doesn't pay attention, most of the time. My point is that I think it's null.
Quote from Huntzilla »
"Massclaim crazy" Seppel I thought was his lazy way of trying to out as much information for the scum team as possible. In very few instances does the mass claim actually help town solve the game. So whenever Seppel goes down the massclaim road, I feel he is just being lazy. You know him best though... is this accurate?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sep seems to be actually caring about solving the game
What exactly gives you that impression?
I agree that the posts that emo_pinata & KamikazeArchon made look bad, though I am not concerned with the exact language used as much as the similarity & timing.
Liking Gentleman Johnny's line of questioning towards Huntzilla; think it might be going somewhere.
If I were not waiting for an answer from Burning_Earth2, and confident about what I am pursuing there, I would consider moving my vote.
Here are my current reads:
Blindfaeth (keep going back & forth on this guy)
Burning_Earth2 (answering my questions fairly well; potential to turn this around if that continues)
emo_pinata (unsure; post cited above makes him look slightly worse)
ganderin_dan (generally liking what I am seeing)
Gentleman Johnny (seems in character; responding well to some pressure while doing questioning of his own)
Huntzilla (fairly neutral until recently)
Iso
KamikazeArchon (awaiting response but leaning towards scum)
KittyCupCake
OceanBlack (unsure; needs more content)
Seppel (unsure; is Seppel)
Should go without saying that it it still early & all of this is tentative. If anyone wants me to elaborate on any of that they are going to have to ask me for it specifically.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ok well the forum will not let me post my massive post so I have it saved in word. I'll try to post it in chunks.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to beat a dead horse.
#34, (Kamikaze #1 post) Kamikaze comes into the thread just to RVS iso and let everyone know he's gone for three days. In #53, I mention I have a minor suspicion & call for people to voice any they have. KCC encourages me to voice my minor ping in #55, since nothing serious had really been mentioned up to that point.
#57, I mention my suspicion of Kamikaze.
#60, KCC likes my thinking but dismisses my weak reasoning
#77, Iso reads KA null
#92, (Kamikaze #2 post) Kamikaze responds to my ping very dismissively. Note at this point he's only talked to/mentioned two players: myself and iso.
Smoke's T/S list is awful. He puts Iso town for no reason, he tells BE to keep it up to no longer be a scumread, he somehow likes what he's seeing from dan. What does any of that even mean?
Ocean never posted the rest of his thoughts. Whatever that means. What else did he want to say?
Also, did you enjoy tabletop day? Board games is my main hobby
I glanced through BE's scumgame and I agree that there's a world of difference between his posts there and here. More specifically, he seemed to be forcing reasons to suspect people there while he seems a lot more relaxed in this game even if a bit awkward.
I'm not sure of any of my other reads just yet. Kittycupcake seems town. I initially though Sepel looked scummy but his vote on me was townish - I think scum are less likely to draw attention to people who haven't been under suspicion previously. Would like his reasons explained though.
Curse is the owner of this website, as of ~1 year ago
smoke_Killah
okay
but
explain your reads.
Perhaps I should make myself a little clearer: I've been in 1-3 games with townB_E and this game falls far more in line with how he plays as town than as he does as scum. Castlevania is his only completed scum game, from what I can see, so I'm not able to provide more proof - but as I said, the difference is night and day.
Should I hunt for some townB_E games so you can see what I'm referring to?
It's not. Believe me, if I weren't convinced B_E were town, I'd be voting him for the hypocrisy, as I find that's often hugely scummy.
Please show me all of the posts that Seppel has made in this game that make you believe he is "en pointe", with a brief explanation (1-3 sentences) explaining how each has given you that impression.
You'll have to explain that one to me when we're not in the middle of a game.
I think we're diverging on theory points, here, and getting into semantics - even if Hunt wasn't necessarily lynched, there's still the probability that he'd claim a role that would deter his lynch (if town) and that would still further the mafia's win condition.
Also, did you honestly expect anyone to blatantly counterclaim Seppel at this juncture in the game? At most, I'd expect someone to do something silly or breadcrumby, such as posting La Roux's "Bulletproof".
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No thanks. I would be slightly more interested in seeing his scum game (if it exists), but I still would not expect it to sway me much.
smoke_Killah
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ty.
I'm not sure that it makes sense now that I'm informed.....
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/576290-vagrant-story-mafia-rosencrantz-guildenstern-are
I don't know if I could have found a better game to review, but I kind of suck at the search function TBH. But this one may suffice, it does have three players in common with our current game -- Iso (obviously), Kamikaze, and Seppel. Iso was night killed night 1, so it isn't too intense of a read-through. She was town in that game, and very aggressive against ika off the bat. Making him emotionally explode before clearing him as town. I see some similarities but differences, this is why I hate meta lol. No two situations are the same. But I do see a fundamental difference in the length of time iso spent in a joking tone in our current game comparatively, she got very serious very quickly in vagrant story. I guess I'd like to hear kamikaze and seppel's opinions in particular, since they were in that game. And one was town, one was mafia, so it might shed some unique insight from different perspectives.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for a lynch or anything by a longshot -- in fact, I'm sorta afraid I bit off more than I can chew But I try to keep a reasonable rational perspective and that includes reviewing people I'm more or less trusting every now and then. I can't stand having the wool pulled over my eyes
The Seppel quotes this game are as follows:
This one struck me as strictly better than his usual day one post. Instead of calling for a massclaim he just claims his own and moves on. He does have a little snag about not understanding the mechanic, but to me that points to town!Sep. Scum!Sep would be sure to know the rules, and use them to his advantage.
I too got the vibes from Ocean's initial few posts that were blind votes. Sep voting someone for what I can assess to be legit reasons points to town!Sep.
This reminded me of the time that I was having an exchange with Sep in Deathspeaker and he instantly came back with, "You didn't believe me, you are town."
This is null...
These actually seem like honest reads, though I do agree with you Iso that I would like for him to explain them more to see if they are in agreement with what I have in my head.
If he is taking notes, he is trying. I believe Sep trying is more tied to him being Town. He had a long string of scum games and I think he was burnt out from being scum, and I think him trying is one of the surest signs that he is town at this point.
Sep seems to be actually caring about solving the game, he's taking notes, and hasn't gone all "massclaim crazy." I think those are all solid Town!Sep traits...
Likewise, if there were other posts in the area I wanted to respond to at that point, I would have.
How? -I've hardly done anything. Like in most games on this site, I'm pretty sure I'm the only girl playing.
Tl;dr
Just kidding! I did find seppels "I like you" response to my minor harassment oddly calming.
@KCC, who is your second strongest?
Also, thanks for saving me the humiliation of asking your gender too. You just never know, a lot of people assume I'm female based on my screename and wiring style
But you had clearly seen my posts at that point, and chose not to respond to them. In fact, you proved that with the following:
You clearly had me in your sites. I am still not seeing why it took both Iso and BE2 to throw a vote at me before you decided to follow through. Why did you not vote me or Iso after the previous vote? You also haven't made a single original point against me? Why are you voting me?
I believe he is town, because he claimed a role where I thought of three roles that would have counterclaimed him immediately. I don't believe a scum Seppel, even one that was trying to fake being spontaneous would be bold enough to risk the likelihood of at least three relatively common town roles counterclaiming his ass. Iso's "counterclaim, without claiming" doesn't count, and I have already mentioned how much I despised that.
Even believing Seppel is town, that still wouldn't justify sheeping him blindly. Hunt stated not only does he feel confidant enough to feel they both are town, he thinks that they are completely infallible.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Too passive for all the soft accusations out there.
unvote
vote Blindfaeth
I don't trust TCM.
I don't trust KCC.
I wouldn't say they are completely infallible. But TCM, you remember the end XKCD... My reads are freaking junk at times. At this point I am trying to learn the best I can. Iso has been giving me townvibes, as has Sep. And that hardly EVER happens for me and Sep. So either I am completely wrong like usual, or not. But for right now, sheeping is one of the best plays I have. Like I said though, Iso first... and then MAYBE Sep. I will continue to look for scum my way while doing so, and I am not scared to go against their reads. We will just see where the game goes. But I definitely use the more experienced players as the basis for my theories and reads in the early part of the game.
(I'm a dude. I think KCC and godot are our only female Mafia players at present, though I know fulcrum also is - she hasn't played here in a while - and mayhaps Scarlet Rage, as well? But Scarlet was from MafiaScum and I don't even remember what he or she identified as. And I'm still confused about HookerPunch.)
Nah, your assessment of my early game is fair - and I will say that I typically find it harder to break RVS as scum. That said, I think the fact that I was uncertain as to which direction I wanted to take the opening play of the game is actually a point in favor of me being town, as it means I'm not making decisions before I have information to base them on. WitchHunt was my most recent completed scum game, but I don't think that's useable data for comparison, here, as the opening of WitchHunt was 9/10ths mechanics/optimal play discussion given the game was an open setup. There wasn't anything to jump on someone for because of the lack of alignment-indicative posts. Here's a more comparable game: Pope Mafia. In Pope Mafia, I ended RVS with my first post (or at least, attempted to). My playstyle is largely based on my emotional state + IRL on-goings + the status of the game in question. So while I do tend to be more choosy with my RVS-breaking as scum, I think the game I just linked you to is sufficient proof that this isn't always the case and that I simply wanted more people to post in this game.
-
@Huntzilla: Really. You expect scumSeppel to pay attention? I can probably dig up at least 3 games where he hasn't.
Why do you think going "massclaim-crazy" is a scumSeppel trait?
-
Unvote, Vote KamikazeArchon
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The GJ way path to no lynching:
(So for the female players discussion, I wanted to add that I am pretty darn sure both Bur and Sepiriel are female. Sepi more assuredly.)
I thought I had argued that scum!Seppel would not pay attention and that town!Seppel would? Unless you missed a word in there...
"Massclaim crazy" Seppel I thought was his lazy way of trying to out as much information for the scum team as possible. In very few instances does the mass claim actually help town solve the game. So whenever Seppel goes down the massclaim road, I feel he is just being lazy. You know him best though... is this accurate?
Please address the rest of my post.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
With spots quadrangular of diamond form,
Ensanguined hearts, clubs typical of strife,
And spades, the emblems of untimely graves.
~William Cowper
The Cold Monarch (2): KittyCupCake, Huntzilla
Huntzilla (2): The Cold Monarch, Burning_Earth2
Burning_Earth2 (1): smoke_Killah
OceanBlack (1): Seppel
emo_pinata (1): Blindfaeth
Blindfaeth (2): emo_pinata, KamikazeArchon
KamikazeArchon (1): Iso
Not Voting: ganderin_dan, OceanBlack
Deadline is 0800 EST, Wednesday, April 29th.
Sorry about that TCM, I did not see that part before.
I did not realize that wanting to break RVS is alignment neutral. I really meant what I said, Scum fear RVS. They often come across awkward in an attempt to appear naturally funny or joking. It's similar to when you see scum self vote in RVS.
Those other actions did not require the additional pressure of a vote. They certainly could have, if I did not like the answers. I am not a fan of people trying to control what I do with my vote. My vote is my weapon, and I can use it the way I want to. Thank you for the concern though...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Aside from the disappearing act, at this point it boils down to your tone, which has been increasingly condescending and irritable.
See post 219 for an example of this...
Also,
If you are interrogating me based on overkindness, why aren't you doing the same to Blindfaeth? See post 201 for an example of that...
Vote: KamikazeArchon
I disagree I'm a non-threatening presence - in fact, perhaps you're intimidated by me because I found you out day one based on your strange obligatory need to vote iso before you left for vacation.
unvote
Vote kamikaze
My vote for emo was simply to express I'm dissatisfied with his level of useful posts, which still are next to none.
Re: my home forum, three people would already be dead by now and I'd have a lot more data at my fingertips. We still haven't managed to lynch anyone, so I'm just as clueless as any day one. But no, I'm not aggressive by nature - I'm rather rational.
Seppel, did you have an opinion on the matter since you were in the game?
Also noted kamikaze ignored my request.
He and emo are laying super low and being evasive and ignoring me in general, is this normal behavior for them?
Well considering I've never unvoted someone prior to this game why is that typically insta lynch material?
Irritable? Yes. Condescending? ....not so much. And even if you are correct, when did Condescending/Irritable = must be scum? You were also voting me several posts before your "example", so do you have a post of mine that showed this tone before you voted me?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I think you are putting too much stock into Kami's vote. Even if he was scum, an Iso lynch wasn't even close to being on the radar.
@Gan Dan
Explanation, or is it the use of the word "soft"?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It's what started my suspicion. Ever since, none of his posts have made me feel better. Or contributed in general.
@Gan Dan
I see I missed your post when I posted my own. Has the word "soft" been used before to ever catch a confirmed scum in another game?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
To be fair, your irritation with the votes and pressure could certainly come from a town perspective. What makes it scummy in this case TCM is the fact that I have only ever seen you calm and collected, even under a little pressure. Also, you yourself started the argument that early Day 1 wagons normally fizzle, and yours was not even a "wagon." So why so much emotion when it comes to this particular vote?
Here is the LAST post before you were busy with RL stuff:
This post has the same tone, irritability, and condescension as the later ones. It was just directed at Iso instead of in my direction. It came from 4 days ago, long before my vote and we both went away.
I have a townread on Iso from his reads and stances. Pointing out BF's townslip for one. Whiteknighting Burning_Earth based on meta when he could have let Burning_Earth continue to be a distraction. His conviction in his TCM read. All of those read town.
BF is a weaker townread based on how transparent he is. I agree somewhat with the townslip although it is not cut and dry. Beyond that, he's eager to move the game forward.
I've changed my mind on BE since my initial suspicion. I'll explain this later.
Kittycupcake read is mostly gut.
I'll post the rest of my thoughts tonight.
No, no, no -I was joking with hunt there about his mild tendency to OMGUS everyone.
Initially, I didn't like your RVS post or your vote on hunt. After, I didn't like your unvote of hunt.
If you still want to refer to me as TCM for this game, that is fine with me.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Why don't you tell me which you think it is, first?
Both Bur and Sepiriel are male.
You're right, I did - but townSeppel also doesn't pay attention, most of the time. My point is that I think it's null.
What sample size are you basing this off of?
Tell me what you think Faeth's townslip was.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I agree that the posts that emo_pinata & KamikazeArchon made look bad, though I am not concerned with the exact language used as much as the similarity & timing.
Liking Gentleman Johnny's line of questioning towards Huntzilla; think it might be going somewhere.
If I were not waiting for an answer from Burning_Earth2, and confident about what I am pursuing there, I would consider moving my vote.
Here are my current reads:
Blindfaeth (keep going back & forth on this guy)
Burning_Earth2 (answering my questions fairly well; potential to turn this around if that continues)
emo_pinata (unsure; post cited above makes him look slightly worse)
ganderin_dan (generally liking what I am seeing)
Gentleman Johnny (seems in character; responding well to some pressure while doing questioning of his own)
Huntzilla (fairly neutral until recently)
Iso
KamikazeArchon (awaiting response but leaning towards scum)
KittyCupCake
OceanBlack (unsure; needs more content)
Seppel (unsure; is Seppel)
Should go without saying that it it still early & all of this is tentative. If anyone wants me to elaborate on any of that they are going to have to ask me for it specifically.
smoke_Killah
RE: Iso & KCC: Reason for town reads?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Acting normal (as in town); not being evasive, dismissive, manipulative, and so on.
More or less same as above; combination of gut/meta based on personal experience.
If you want me to back that up with quotes, I am game, but it will probably be a couple of days.
smoke_Killah
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to beat a dead horse.
#34, (Kamikaze #1 post) Kamikaze comes into the thread just to RVS iso and let everyone know he's gone for three days. In #53, I mention I have a minor suspicion & call for people to voice any they have. KCC encourages me to voice my minor ping in #55, since nothing serious had really been mentioned up to that point.
#57, I mention my suspicion of Kamikaze.
#60, KCC likes my thinking but dismisses my weak reasoning
#77, Iso reads KA null
#92, (Kamikaze #2 post) Kamikaze responds to my ping very dismissively. Note at this point he's only talked to/mentioned two players: myself and iso.
Ocean never posted the rest of his thoughts. Whatever that means. What else did he want to say?
I want to lynch both of them.
If you think he's town, why unvote "for now"? Implies you'll revote him later.