She jumps into the conversation explaining why BF feels the way BF does and why he is playing the way he does, but it skips a step. The statement ºBFs playstyle and the change in format made them very cautious approaching votes at allº or ºshort days with no unvoting means BF is less likely to place votes unless he was sureº are both reasonable, but it is putting the cart before the horse. At no point does BF give this impression in his posts, so it sounds like omnipotent talking; someone that knows a town alignment before the alignment is revealed. It is all perfectly reasonable thoughts, but they are not something to simply not question at any stage. KCC shows zero suspicion of BF, because she knew BF was town. For someone advocating caution and logic it is a leap of faith.
The second half reads like ºThese are the clear and present reasons BF is town, so why would you question them?º Reinforcing the point above.
Maybe you can translate the underlined for me then, Iso? -Because I see EP pushing hard that my solid townread of BF was suspicious, even though anyone paying any attention at all D1 knew BF was town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah... That's not even close to the point of what I said. I gave examples of what confidence in BF would sound like in that paragraph. You didn't just say BF was town, you say why BF as town is behaving the way BF behaved for BF... But the start and end of the logic is "BF is town, therefore BF appearing soft on his reads because the change in rules to the game." To simplify, this requires three answers:
1) why answer for BF at all?
2) why do you think one comment asking how the scum chat works couldn't be faked?
3) if BF's town slip involved openly speculating about the rules of mafia on this site to the point that it made him guaranteed innocent, why no mod intervention?
Also, if you respect BE's play so much why disregard it so hard yesterday?
1) why answer for BF at all?
2) why do you think one comment asking how the scum chat works couldn't be faked?
3) if BF's town slip involved openly speculating about the rules of mafia on this site to the point that it made him guaranteed innocent, why no mod intervention?
Also, if you respect BE's play so much why disregard it so hard yesterday?
1) I was talking to KA and he flat-out said, "hey, I want other opinions on this." -It wasn't at all directed at BF.
2) Hypothetically could be? May...be. But it read like genuine, open, non-forced curiosity. Also, I don't think I've ever seen scum try to fake an accidental townslip. It just doesn't happen.
3) Because mods don't do that in general? -Because mod intervention there clearly would have caused more of a problem than anything else?
4ish) I've never played with him before, I'm still getting to know him.
Iso, I feel like the simple answer is that BF may have been barking up the right tree, but with other wagons present and nobody really following up anything he proposed, wanted to nip it in the bud. The WIFOM element shouldn't be in play, considering he wasn't one of the main case pushers yet.
I'll look through and give you a better answer when I get home.
I've got no real opinion on this KCC thing. I still think the TCM/KCC thing could be town/town, and allowing that self-fulfilling dichotomy (it's really not, but it's going to work out that way) to resolve itself is another reason the BF NK may have happened.
I'm totally up for lynching dan with my nonexistent case, btw.
But there's no way ocean is scum. Why ocean? Really?
He was mostly a nullread Yesterday, but I didn't like how he hammered, which nudges him into my bottom 3.
What was bad about his hammer? It was consensus that he was the lynch, and ocean asked for objections. Just a normal hammer imo.
I have to agree with you here, B_E... Nothing seemed out of place, though I do remember smoke not liking it because Ocean only allowed for one comment before commencing...
What was bad about his hammer? It was consensus that he was the lynch, and ocean asked for objections. Just a normal hammer imo.
If he had just come in and hammered, it would have been fine. But, he asked for objections -which also would have been fine, if he actually meant it. But, he clearly didn't, or he would have, you know, given some amount of time for objections to be voiced. It was a mix of needless hesitence and fake concern.
It's like, he walked by the table and there was one doughnut left in the box, and he wanted to take it, but was concerned it would make him look inconsiderate. So, he asks the rest of the room if anyone else wants it, which would have been nice of him, except that he didn't look around for responses or even give them a chance to react, he just heard one person right next to him say, "I don't want it," before scooping it up and devouring it. -Because, he didn't ask the question because he cared, he only did it for appearances.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We should also test if this is lynch resistant or lynch immune. The fact that this immunity is extremely likely to be trump based means I don't like the lack of claim. Showing off you are lynch immune versus just saying it, testing it, and then letting us move on is sketchy.
That said, let's run a few more votes up on her and then move on.
Reading through, I was starting the worry that the KCC lynch seemed too easy especially since no one really took me up on it when I suggested we lynch KCC Day 1. I'm not sure what to think of her ability. Normally, I'd consider lynch-resistant being more likely town because it would be way too powerful for scum but I agree with emo that it could be trump-based which doesn't do much for my read on KCC. I will add another vote though just in case.
Vote:KCC
Re: My hammer. BF posted after I did and didn't tell me to wait. Iso explicitly was okay with the hammer. It seemed like the general temperature in the room was that people were ready to move on. Perhaps it may have helped if I waited but I was impatient and not used to days lasting three weeks. The lynch was pretty much set in stone and I wanted to see the flip.
-------
What I found most notable today is that no one else besides me was voting KCC day 1 but nearly everyone voted her today despite KA's townflip. Some said that KA/KCC are scum together but are still voting KCC even after KA flipped town - meaning they should have considered voting KCC because their read on KCC doesn't actually seem dependent on KA's scumflip.
I could maybe see KCC having a lot of influence with the playerlist and the others not wanting to lynch her D1 without giving her a chance to town it up. But I'm not sure about KA - or in general, who are considered to be the better players on this site (besides Iso). If my hunch is true that KCC knows the playerlist better, it would explain the wagon on her now despite the lack of votes D1. I'll investigate everyone's stances in a bit.
We should pile everyone's vote on to KCC as a precautionary measure. I once played an anti-town role where I claimed lynchproof, but in reality, my role simply required every living player to vote for me to lynch me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We should pile everyone's vote on to KCC as a precautionary measure. I once played an anti-town role where I claimed lynchproof, but in reality, my role simply required every living player to vote for me to lynch me.
We should pile everyone's vote on to KCC as a precautionary measure. I once played an anti-town role where I claimed lynchproof, but in reality, my role simply required every living player to vote for me to lynch me.
But that game was a cluster**** of epic proportions. Scum don't usually have increased lynch thresholds.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We should also test if this is lynch resistant or lynch immune. The fact that this immunity is extremely likely to be trump based means I don't like the lack of claim. Showing off you are lynch immune versus just saying it, testing it, and then letting us move on is sketchy.
That said, let's run a few more votes up on her and then move on.
I agree with this. KCC, you could have just told us. Did you get anything telling from watching yourself get run up? Anyone stick out at you?
The fact that this immunity is extremely likely to be trump based means I don't like the lack of claim. Showing off you are lynch immune versus just saying it, testing it, and then letting us move on is sketchy.
Hey, I got the wagon through quickly so we'd have plenty of time left Today. And as I said to Iso, I claimed already, but I can do so again.
I'm Fifth from Stargate. I'm the 5 of Spades. I can replicate during spades, making me unlynchable. I did so last Night. No, it's not just for Today. Yes we can test that Tomorrow.
I agree with this. KCC, you could have just told us. Did you get anything telling from watching yourself get run up? Anyone stick out at you?
Yes, actually.
GJ editting his reasoning to still push at me looks as bad as everything else he's done. BE is town. Seppel is very town. EP's case had issues, but it's probably sloppy rather than scummy. GD saying he has no opinion on me one day, then the very next day declaring an intention to hammer doesn't make me feel any better about him.
Re: My hammer. BF posted after I did and didn't tell me to wait. Iso explicitly was okay with the hammer. It seemed like the general temperature in the room was that people were ready to move on. Perhaps it may have helped if I waited but I was impatient and not used to days lasting three weeks. The lynch was pretty much set in stone and I wanted to see the flip.
But the temperature in the room had been at ready to move on for days. You could have easily just walked in and hammered if you were impatient to see the flip. Asking for objections and hearing from only two people is completely pointless beyond just trying to keep up appearances.
Why aren't you reading the case?
Maybe you can translate the underlined for me then, Iso? -Because I see EP pushing hard that my solid townread of BF was suspicious, even though anyone paying any attention at all D1 knew BF was town.
Anyway, just because he added a bad point to the case doesn't mean the rest of the case is bad.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Of course, I never said it did. -The other half is bad for the same reasons it was Yesterday, and everything BE pointed out Today.
Also, KCC you should claim. Refusing to claim just sucks. It will seriously get you lynched way faster than claiming.
Also also, Seppel, if you hate my posting, you could just not read anything I post!
1) why answer for BF at all?
2) why do you think one comment asking how the scum chat works couldn't be faked?
3) if BF's town slip involved openly speculating about the rules of mafia on this site to the point that it made him guaranteed innocent, why no mod intervention?
Also, if you respect BE's play so much why disregard it so hard yesterday?
My best guess right now would be GJ... ocean and dan.
1) I was talking to KA and he flat-out said, "hey, I want other opinions on this." -It wasn't at all directed at BF.
2) Hypothetically could be? May...be. But it read like genuine, open, non-forced curiosity. Also, I don't think I've ever seen scum try to fake an accidental townslip. It just doesn't happen.
3) Because mods don't do that in general? -Because mod intervention there clearly would have caused more of a problem than anything else?
4ish) I've never played with him before, I'm still getting to know him.
But there's no way ocean is scum. Why ocean? Really?
He was mostly a nullread Yesterday, but I didn't like how he hammered, which nudges him into my bottom 3.
What was bad about his hammer? It was consensus that he was the lynch, and ocean asked for objections. Just a normal hammer imo.
I'll look through and give you a better answer when I get home.
I've got no real opinion on this KCC thing. I still think the TCM/KCC thing could be town/town, and allowing that self-fulfilling dichotomy (it's really not, but it's going to work out that way) to resolve itself is another reason the BF NK may have happened.
I don't believe Ocean is scum for a second.
I have to agree with you here, B_E... Nothing seemed out of place, though I do remember smoke not liking it because Ocean only allowed for one comment before commencing...
Still doesn't change it for me
He had a few decent posts in there, but I wasn't that impressed.
If he had just come in and hammered, it would have been fine. But, he asked for objections -which also would have been fine, if he actually meant it. But, he clearly didn't, or he would have, you know, given some amount of time for objections to be voiced. It was a mix of needless hesitence and fake concern.
It's like, he walked by the table and there was one doughnut left in the box, and he wanted to take it, but was concerned it would make him look inconsiderate. So, he asks the rest of the room if anyone else wants it, which would have been nice of him, except that he didn't look around for responses or even give them a chance to react, he just heard one person right next to him say, "I don't want it," before scooping it up and devouring it. -Because, he didn't ask the question because he cared, he only did it for appearances.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Poker: the art of civilized bushwhacking. ~Nick Dandalos, attributed
KCC (4): Gentleman Johnny, emo_pinata, Iso, Huntzilla
Huntzilla (1): Burning_Earth2
Gentleman Johnny (1): KittyCupCake
Not Voting: ganderin_dan, OceanBlack, Seppel, smoke_Killah
V/LA: ganderin_dan (sporadic until 5/6/15)
OceanBlack has been prodded. smoke_Killah and Gentleman Johnny are in soon-to-be-prodded range.
With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch!
smoke_Killah
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vote KCC
Or anything besides KCC?
I'm scum deflecting, clearly. Just hasn't felt like we got much out of today, considering the very limited scope of discussion.
I'll hammer if nobody has issue in, say, 12 hours. Post a reads list next time you're in, KCC?
Vote: KCC
GJ is still scum, let's do that.
If, after the first twenty minutes, you don't know who the sucker at the table is, it's you. ~David Levien and Brian Koppelman, Rounders
KCC (6): Gentleman Johnny, emo_pinata, Iso, Huntzilla, Seppel, KCC
Huntzilla (1): Burning_Earth2
Not Voting: ganderin_dan, OceanBlack, smoke_Killah
V/LA: ganderin_dan (sporadic until 5/6/15)
With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch!
Like your claim?
What seppel said.
Unless Bur intentionally didn't send us into twilight.
Why would he send us to twilight? Who got lynched?
I sincerely apologize for any confusion caused by Bur's votecount. I have double-checked it, and have posted the corrections in the spoiler below:
@KCC: Would have killed you to just say you were lynch resistant?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
That said, let's run a few more votes up on her and then move on.
Vote:KCC
Re: My hammer. BF posted after I did and didn't tell me to wait. Iso explicitly was okay with the hammer. It seemed like the general temperature in the room was that people were ready to move on. Perhaps it may have helped if I waited but I was impatient and not used to days lasting three weeks. The lynch was pretty much set in stone and I wanted to see the flip.
-------
What I found most notable today is that no one else besides me was voting KCC day 1 but nearly everyone voted her today despite KA's townflip. Some said that KA/KCC are scum together but are still voting KCC even after KA flipped town - meaning they should have considered voting KCC because their read on KCC doesn't actually seem dependent on KA's scumflip.
I could maybe see KCC having a lot of influence with the playerlist and the others not wanting to lynch her D1 without giving her a chance to town it up. But I'm not sure about KA - or in general, who are considered to be the better players on this site (besides Iso). If my hunch is true that KCC knows the playerlist better, it would explain the wagon on her now despite the lack of votes D1. I'll investigate everyone's stances in a bit.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Now someone unvote and revote
But that game was a cluster**** of epic proportions. Scum don't usually have increased lynch thresholds.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I was.
I forgot you were in that game!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
KCC is Obvtown now. It is highly unlikely that Scum will be unlynchable/have a higher lynch threshold.
I agree with this. KCC, you could have just told us. Did you get anything telling from watching yourself get run up? Anyone stick out at you?
I'm Fifth from Stargate. I'm the 5 of Spades. I can replicate during spades, making me unlynchable. I did so last Night. No, it's not just for Today. Yes we can test that Tomorrow. Yes, actually.
GJ editting his reasoning to still push at me looks as bad as everything else he's done. BE is town. Seppel is very town. EP's case had issues, but it's probably sloppy rather than scummy. GD saying he has no opinion on me one day, then the very next day declaring an intention to hammer doesn't make me feel any better about him. But the temperature in the room had been at ready to move on for days. You could have easily just walked in and hammered if you were impatient to see the flip. Asking for objections and hearing from only two people is completely pointless beyond just trying to keep up appearances.