Ocean and Iso are likely town. Ocean for detailed analysis, Iso for not doing the things that scum Iso does.
One of KCC and Johnny is likely to be scum. I don't believe it's more than one because their interaction reads too hostile to be bussing. Odds are against town-on-town.
Specifically with Johnny, I dislike his interaction with Iso. He's pushing back against Iso all game yet never votes Iso. If Johnny is town, from his perspective Iso is feeding a string of faulty logic to put suspicion on Johnny - why not go after him? Instead, he defends himself but looks for scum elsewhere. From a scum perspective, I think this makes sense if he knows Iso is town and thinks going for Iso will put too much suspicion on him. So he goes after a weaker target instead - KCC.
@ KA, do you believe scum are incapable or less likely to provide detailed analysis?
We still have ten days left. Why are you compromising so early on in the game?
Can you post a list of your reads with reasons?
KCC's recent responses all have a sarcastic and discrediting tone and most of her posts focus on defense with very little scumhunting. I'm also concerned about the link between KittyCupcake and KA, and KA backing up KCC lends credence to Iso's theory.
@ KA, do you believe scum are incapable or less likely to provide detailed analysis?
Incapable, no. Less likely, yes.
We still have ten days left. Why are you compromising so early on in the game?
Compromising on what? Blindfaeth? I have zero traction on that and there's more than one scum.
Can you post a list of your reads with reasons?
That's what I've been doing. Assume everyone I don't specifically mention is null so far.
KCC's recent responses all have a sarcastic and discrediting tone and most of her posts focus on defense with very little scumhunting. I'm also concerned about the link between KittyCupcake and KA, and KA backing up KCC lends credence to Iso's theory.
I've seen KCC do that as town. That said, I'm not clearing her; I'm saying Johnny is the more likely of the two to be scum.
No, that won't be necessary. Considering it was like your third post of the game, it kinda goes without saying that anyone suspicious of you was likely suspicious for similar reasons.
Iso didn't have a reason. You voted me post 104, but Iso didn't justify his vote until post 116. Man, you are so guilty it hurts. The votes at that point were Ocean's RVS vote, Iso's reasonless vote, and BE2's "let's bandwagon TCM". You gave no reason for your dislike of my posts, and any comment you made on your dislike at the time, would have been original.
Well, I certainly wasn't sure of your alignment. It was a minor read based on like 3 posts around RVS. -That's a time to gather more info, not nail people to the wall.
Your back and forth with me, nothing I was doing you were questioning. You seemed content to just passively answer my questions, and throw an occasional one liner.
First, I didn't say there that I was "for a Kami lynch," I said I was considering a vote there (depending on how he explained the "softness" incident).
You considering to put a vote on Kami, implies you are willing to lynch Kami. You clearly weren't town reading him at this stage, if you were considering hopping on his wagon, why are you balking at this?
First, I never had an actual town read on s_K; I was just RVS messing with Iso (iso townread EP, so I voted him; iso voted s_K, so I townread him). There's no way you are actually this incompetent, to believe that a townread at post 22 was not only serious, but binding. -Though you are very competent at pulling things out of context.
Speaking of "out of context," what changed? What changed? What could have possibly changed between posts [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/602540-full-deck-mafia-heres-the-deal-day-1?comment=22]22[/url] and [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/602540-full-deck-mafia-heres-the-deal-day-1?comment=184]184[/url]? Hmm...
Hmmmmm.......
Oh, look! I actually [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/602540-full-deck-mafia-heres-the-deal-day-1?comment=104]made[/url] [http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/602540-full-deck-mafia-heres-the-deal-day-1?comment=162]posts[/url] in between there! -Which I guess you must how somehow missed despite you linking to like 90% of my surrounding posts? Laughing Oh, and I guess you also somehow missed me already linking to one of them in my last response to you. EDIT: No, wait, you actually referenced that link later in this very post.
So, in summary, what changed, is that it stopped being RVS, I read s_K, and I then developed, expressed, and explained suspicion of him, all of which you apparently somehow missed in what I'm sure was thorough and sincere research on your part, despite the fact that the pieces of info you left out would conveniently make for a nice smear campaign.
If you wanna try this again, that's fine. Something went screwy with what you were trying to link, so I am just getting urls with spoilers.
I could have asked you questions, but I think this is working much better. Also, I did engage KA in the more traditional ask questions, look at answers style of hunting, though it is interesting that you've ignored that.
Really, and how is that coming along? I am curious if Iso is willing to test his tell here.
Oh, no wait, you didn't completely ignore my questioning of KA. -You've just decided that my asking a player questions to get a read is scummy. And since not asking questions is also scummy, I must say that is a fine system you have there.
You one/two questions. I'll borrow from Iso here:
Quote from Iso »
I feel like the line of questioning she was pursuing with regards to Arch's motives was already fairly apparent, shallow, and simply reluctantly going through the motions of pretending to engage him to see if any pressure dissipated over a couple of days or so.
...and then you pretty much snap vote him, dismissing his post completely, while also trying to justify how you could have believed it.
Quote from KCC »
No. No, no. That's not coincidence, that's ridiculous. Had you said you were sheeping without having mentioned it, or were inspired by EP to look over his posts for softness, that could have been understandable. But, I'm not buying this at all.
.
This feels like you are bussing the absolute ***** out of him, which brings me to this:
1). I forgot who asked. I have been going back and forth so much, I don't care much to look it up. I don't know how I see Iso right now. I can't believe a scum Iso would think his "trap" is any real tell, his back and forth with me feels weird, and the only slight ping I got from him was him trying to be conscious about how he might 180 on me if KCC flips scum (if KCC flips town though, then this obviously doesn't mean anything). He will be figured out by hopefully day 3, so I am more than content to hunt the other two.
2):
Quote from Kami »
Specifically with Johnny, I dislike his interaction with Iso. He's pushing back against Iso all game yet never votes Iso. If Johnny is town, from his perspective Iso is feeding a string of faulty logic to put suspicion on Johnny - why not go after him?
1). I don't see the correlation between pushing back, and going after him.
2). Faulty logic is not =/= to being scum. If it were, I would just policy lynch Seppel every game and move on.
From a scum perspective, I think this makes sense if he knows Iso is town and thinks going for Iso will put too much suspicion on him. So he goes after a weaker target instead - KCC.
So, you just uttered that you can't understand why I am not going after Iso, but then in the same post, you say that going after Iso would put too much suspicion on me, and going after KCC is basically the lower hanging fruit? By that logic, I already have some momentum where BF really has zero. Using your logic, going after BF would put even more suspicion on you, so you go after the much easier target: Me.
That said, I'm not clearing her; I'm saying Johnny is the more likely of the two to be scum.
Mm, but you are. That's the thing when you decide to put a dichotomy on two players: By saying one of us is scum, and voting a player, you are declaring that I am the scum, and she is the townie. Unless you are trying to sell that it's a bus...
Specifically with Johnny, I dislike his interaction with Iso. He's pushing back against Iso all game yet never votes Iso. If Johnny is town, from his perspective Iso is feeding a string of faulty logic to put suspicion on Johnny - why not go after him? Instead, he defends himself but looks for scum elsewhere.
TCM simply knows that bad logic does not equal scum. Not scummy
Quote from Seppel »
I'm a third party role that has no night actions and no passive abilities and wins if the game goes to day 10.
And I'm a flying pig serial killer who wins with the town.
Quote from Seppel »
Can we not make a dichotomy out of KCC and GJ? There is a possibility that they're both town.
1). I forgot who asked. I have been going back and forth so much, I don't care much to look it up. I don't know how I see Iso right now. I can't believe a scum Iso would think his "trap" is any real tell, his back and forth with me feels weird, and the only slight ping I got from him was him trying to be conscious about how he might 180 on me if KCC flips scum (if KCC flips town though, then this obviously doesn't mean anything). He will be figured out by hopefully day 3, so I am more than content to hunt the other two.
I asked. You are saying now that KamikazeArchon's scumflip will cement it for KCC. This was a theory that Iso initially put forth - of a KA/KCC scumteam. If you believe so strongly in it, I'd assume you'd be townreading Iso for mirroring your thoughts.
Do you think he's bussing both his partners (KA and KCC) or is he a backup suspect in case one or both of them flip town?
I'm not buying that GJ genuinely suspects KCC, tbh. But I don't really care for her tone right now either. It doesn't make her bad -- I've been sarcastic plenty of times as town. But it is something bothering me. I'm intrigued that they are both arguing back and forth like this yet end up on the same wagon. I'm not getting good vibes from enough of the people on the KA wagon at this point, tbh.
unvote
I trust more of the people on s_K wagon. That doesn't mean I am going to jump on without a good reason. I've never felt like anyone has given a super compelling reason to vote for him. Though, I am growing weary of the waiting game for the content he promised, there are only so many days left and stalling will only get you so far.
@Seppel - I know, right? It seems my pre-game ability to shoot you with my unicorn pixie dust cupid's arrow successfully enthralled you.
Btw I have a longish post in limbo where I'm compiling my thoughts on smoke, but curse won't let me post. I ran out of time before work so I'll work on it during lunch hopefully
I'm not buying that GJ genuinely suspects KCC, tbh
I genuinely suspect KCC is scum. Call me a liar, or up the bet.
I trust more of the people on s_K wagon. That doesn't mean I am going to jump on without a good reason. I've never felt like anyone has given a super compelling reason to vote for him.
The people on the s_K wagon, from what I have seen, would for the most part, be pro-Kami as well. If Kami is scum, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume there is at least one scum on him. In addition, we have a six day deadline. Time is not on our side, as as both Kami and s_K have proved (as well as most people), we can't guarantee to be on everyday. We need to figure out today's lynch yesterday, and if it doesn't work, we need to figure out who would be next.
I had a theory about Smoke. Reading through his 5-year old games, I noticed that as scum, he often either won the game or was the last scum to be lynched -close to LYLO. He also posted lots of content as scum which leads me to believe he is somewhat competent as scum. I wondered if he fit into the class of players who have a "scummy" town-meta but are good when they are actually scum. Reading through his intro post confirms my hunch:
I try to play consistently regardless of alignment, though I admit to being much better as scum; my personality seems to attract more suspicion when I am town :cool2
Bottomline - I think the laziness in not showing up when he is a lynch possibility, the wishy-washy, uncertain reads-list etc make more sense coming from town. I think he would have approached this situation differently had he been scum. So, smoke is probably town.
KA is a player I'm re-evaluating based on his latest posts. There's something that GJ said that makes me think that he's town but it is not certain and I want more data in thread before I talk about it. Just putting it here for later reference.
I'm probably going to go with one of KCC/KA for my vote today.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
V/LA April 20-29 Finals V/LA April 30-May 6 Vegas (this is way less detracting, surprisingly enough)
All I can say from a quick skim (being as I'm studying) is that I really doubt TCM is scum. I think Town/Town is totally within the realm of possibility with him/KCC, as well.
[quote from="Blindfaeth »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/602540-full-deck-mafia-heres-the-deal-day-1?comment=353"]
On Gandan, it was a relatively minor thing. In Post 143, he critiques ISO's case on TCM and adds "Not trying to defend TCM for TCM, just my perspective on things." He seems paranoid that he could be wrong and erroneously defending scum. It gave off a vibe that he doesn't know TCM's alignment. If he was scum with TCM, I wouldn't expect him to undermine his own defense and make it more likely that TCM is lynched while at the same time giving him no towncred at all. I expect he'd either distance to look good or commit to derailing TCM's lynch.
FWIW, it wasn't paranoia, it was not wanting to provide TCM an easy out to pressure.
Well I'm at burger King posting. Post is at work computer, so I'll finish it in the morning I suppose. In the meantime, I agree, time is not on our side.. Ocean, why do you suspect KCC? Sorry if you've elaborated before but referencing on phone is difficult
Well I'm at burger King posting. Post is at work computer, so I'll finish it in the morning I suppose. In the meantime, I agree, time is not on our side.. Ocean, why do you suspect KCC? Sorry if you've elaborated before but referencing on phone is difficult
She put very little effort into solving the game. Whenever I recall her posts, all I remember is her answering GJ's push on her. She votes KA, she never re-evaluates her read or continue to dynamically refine her reads. She's cast a vote on a wagon that will likely go through, and spent the rest of time justifying herself to GJ.
To some extent, this is fine. If someone's writing a case on you, I'd expect some response. But the lack of just stopping for a second and looking at the game from a bird's eye view is concerning.
Had trouble remembering/finding which games I was thinking about; then I realized that they are not in this sub-forum, they were Mod Mafia 4 and 7 and I cannot post them here. As far as I am aware, Iso is the only one that can can confirm this; since he was the one who asked me about it in the first place, I am sure that he would not mind taking a look and giving you his own impression of whether or not I am "blowing smoke".
I seem to recall the Soloist from Polyopticon being announced a bit later on in Day 1 than the start (though subsequent Days saw the Soloist realized at the start, I think).
Unvote
And now we wait.
Iso said something very odd day 1 IMO, "And now we wait." -- I expressed my confusion.
But we have enough participants to engage with and gain information, don't you think?
How do you propose that we should go about that?
I remember being pinged by this post, because 3 posts later, in #40, I asked "Why do I get the feeling this is a loaded question?" I remember feeling at the time that discussion was being suppressed by both of these individuals. I think that smoke didn't expect me to be able to answer or adapt to this question in a way that would be productive, could be wrong. But I did come up with something and started some discussion about self-meta/introductions. Not sure how productive it was, but it did get people talking.
In the meantime, smoke laid pretty low for a while. He asked some why's and voted for BE2 - who asked if it was serious or RVS, which smoke replied with a "serious face" spiderman photo. Spiderman is jokey by nature, so IMO this answer was not clear, and that could have been his intention.
I don't feel like smoke really started contributing until post 190, where he finally makes the reason he's voting BE clear, and his first post indicating he would not be unvoting him for meta reasons alone.
IMO, he spends most of his time focusing on BE2 and/or helpful posts for newbies that look like contributing for quite a while. This could have been again, a way of laying low and blending in, though I've certainly had tunnel vision on a person in the past.
Sep seems to be actually caring about solving the game
What exactly gives you that impression?
I agree that the posts that emo_pinata & KamikazeArchon made look bad, though I am not concerned with the exact language used as much as the similarity & timing.
Liking Gentleman Johnny's line of questioning towards Huntzilla; think it might be going somewhere.
If I were not waiting for an answer from Burning_Earth2, and confident about what I am pursuing there, I would consider moving my vote.
Here are my current reads:
Blindfaeth (keep going back & forth on this guy)
Burning_Earth2 (answering my questions fairly well; potential to turn this around if that continues)
emo_pinata (unsure; post cited above makes him look slightly worse)
ganderin_dan (generally liking what I am seeing)
Gentleman Johnny (seems in character; responding well to some pressure while doing questioning of his own)
Huntzilla (fairly neutral until recently)
Iso
KamikazeArchon (awaiting response but leaning towards scum)
KittyCupCake
OceanBlack (unsure; needs more content)
Seppel (unsure; is Seppel)
Should go without saying that it it still early & all of this is tentative. If anyone wants me to elaborate on any of that they are going to have to ask me for it specifically.
Then in 244, he finally posts his famous, scrutinized reads post. Where he lists KA as likely scum and possibly EP due to their possible connection, but throws a question mark on me, who was pursuing their lynch at the time. He also townreads iso & KCC without reason. I don't know if I agree with Ocean or others yet who think KCC is naughty, but I do have to say, I agree with one of KCC's posts when someone said she was town. She basically said "Why? I haven't done anything." I'm not sure why she would be someone to point out as town. He also townreads GJ, who I think half of the players would at least agree, has been suspicious to some degree.
Ok this was just my first half, I'll see if I notice anything else.
RE: Gentleman Johnny: "In character"? And how is that alignment-indicative?
Acting normal (as in town); not being evasive, dismissive, manipulative, and so on.
RE: Iso & KCC: Reason for town reads?
More or less same as above; combination of gut/meta based on personal experience.
If you want me to back that up with quotes, I am game, but it will probably be a couple of days.
Well for starters, the content we were waiting on that he finally posted isn't what we were even waiting on, it was for the reasoning behind his iso & KCC reads, no?
In #306, is when I start really getting negative vibes from smoke. Could be just frustration, but he starts the post by retorting to EP and Seppel's claims that his T/S list was garbage by saying Seppel's was just as bad, and asking EP where his was sarcastically. Plus, he used the word "softened"
Nowhere in here do you address the real issue, which is that your reads lack justification behind them and you just let people blank in terms of why you read them that way. Can you address this issue?
I am not overly concerned; being told that my list is "awful" does not really do it for me. I addressed it about as much as I intend to, unless I am asked specific questions.
Would you mind addressing the points that I made about you?
How so?
If I wanted to brush him off, why would I have offered to be more specific before he even asked me to?
This about sums it up.
How am I brushing off Iso? I mean he totally asked me to provide justification and then I didn't, but let's ignore that and puch against EP's point anyways.
Except that is not what happened.
I stated that I would elaborate if asked when I made my list.
Iso asked me to do so, to which I agreed.
As his request will require me to read through multiple completed games, it is going to have to wait until I have several hours in which to do so.
Which I also (more or less) stated.
If anyone finds this unreasonable, they should just get over it; but trying to present it as brushing him off is a misrepresentation.
Then he tells us to get over the waiting for the explanation, which he will give, and in the end, waited so long that he hoped I'd forgotten what we were actually waiting on
Ok, I have to work now - but I'll vote smoke and see if this gets us anywhere.
I remember being pinged by this post, because 3 posts later, in #40, I asked "Why do I get the feeling this is a loaded question?" I think that smoke didn't expect me to be able to answer or adapt to this question in a way that would be productive, could be wrong.
You know that you are wrong, because I told you so; it was a legitimate question, that you never made any attempt to answer.
By the way, do you realize that "Why do I get the feeling this is a loaded question?" is itself one? Not sure that you know what it means.
I remember feeling at the time that discussion was being suppressed by both of these individuals.
How is asking a question supposed to suppress discussion?
If that is what you thought that we were doing, why did you wait until now to say something about it?
Are you still townreading Iso?
Spiderman is jokey by nature, so IMO this answer was not clear, and that could have been his intention.
you can read though, I assume.
Where he lists KA as likely scum and possibly EP due to their possible connection, but throws a question mark on me, who was pursuing their lynch at the time.
Well for starters, the content we were waiting on that he finally posted isn't what we were even waiting on, it was for the reasoning behind his iso & KCC reads, no?
No; can you read?
If so, then stop misrepresenting me.
Then he tells us to get over the waiting for the explanation, which he will give, and in the end, waited so long that he hoped I'd forgotten what we were actually waiting on
Ok, I have to work now - but I'll vote smoke and see if this gets us anywhere.
These 2 posts seem like you are trying to justify jumping on to a popular wagon that you do not understand, at a critical stage.
None of your points are actual points; looks like you are reaching to find fault with them, using very passive language so that you can absolve yourself once this goes down.
I'm having problems dissecting the nested quote so I'm replying the best I can.
You asked in #431 why I waited until now to say something about it. I did say something about it then in the form of my question. Also, previously, when I was reconsidering voting you because Seppel seemed so sure, I also mentioned it then. That is post #269.
Yes I am still town reading iso, but he also has not been around due to V/LA.
I am trying to justify jumping on a popular wagon that I didn't understand at a critical stage. That doesn't make me bad. I am trying to stay open minded. I don't trust two of the people I was on the KA bandwagon with. The vote has been 4-4 for days. It is time to get more information.
I don't need to be absolved of anything. I didn't need to jump on a popular bandwagon for *****s and giggles, I was already on one.
My problem with your being unsure of me whilst at the same time suspecting KA should be readily apparent. We are very clearly not trusting of each other.
Your response to my posts only makes me more comfortable with my decision. I am reading your "can you read?" questions in a very nasty tone. I don't think I've misrepresented you and if I have, it was not on purpose but rather a miscommunication. That doesn't mean that it is OK to insult my intellect.
I am 10 of Hearts, my abilities:
Puppy Love (tracks players that target me)
Long Walk of Distraction (if I am killed while hearts are trump, kills are blocked the following Night)
Happy Honeymoon (town win condition)
If you want me to back that up with quotes, I am game, but it will probably be a couple of days.
That statement should have been in top part of that post in regards to Gentleman Johnny. I agreed to back that read up because it is the one I was asked a specific question about. I am certainly not offering to do research on several other people as well.
You asked in #431 why I waited until now to say something about it. I did say something about it then in the form of my question.
Yes, you did technically ask him about it, but you did not say that it made you suspicious or "that discussion was being suppressed" (to either of us, at any point), which seems strange if you actually thought that. You also drop it rather quickly when he gives you the (obvious) answer.
My point to all of this being, (particularly if you are townreading Iso), why did you feel the need to bring it up now, in regards to me?
My problem with your being unsure of me whilst at the same time suspecting KA should be readily apparent. We are very clearly not trusting of each other.
Yes, that is readily apparent, but I was not asking you to simply repeat yourself. I want to know why you think that is a problem.
I don't think I've misrepresented you and if I have, it was not on purpose but rather a miscommunication.
Then why do yo continue to do it?
You missed a question:
14. Abilities with a restriction listed can be used if that restriction is met (see Ability Restrictions & Types, below).
- Of specific note, some abilities have suits listed; these can only be used during a phase when that suit is trump.
- Some abilities don't have a given set of restrictions.
EXAMPLES: Some abilities don't have "Day" or "Night"; these can be used/function during either Day or Night. Some abilities don't list a suit; these can be used/function regardless of which suit is trump.
One of KCC and Johnny is likely to be scum. I don't believe it's more than one because their interaction reads too hostile to be bussing. Odds are against town-on-town.
Specifically with Johnny, I dislike his interaction with Iso. He's pushing back against Iso all game yet never votes Iso. If Johnny is town, from his perspective Iso is feeding a string of faulty logic to put suspicion on Johnny - why not go after him? Instead, he defends himself but looks for scum elsewhere. From a scum perspective, I think this makes sense if he knows Iso is town and thinks going for Iso will put too much suspicion on him. So he goes after a weaker target instead - KCC.
Blindfaeth isn't happening today, so:
unvote
vote Gentleman Johnny
We still have ten days left. Why are you compromising so early on in the game?
Can you post a list of your reads with reasons?
KCC's recent responses all have a sarcastic and discrediting tone and most of her posts focus on defense with very little scumhunting. I'm also concerned about the link between KittyCupcake and KA, and KA backing up KCC lends credence to Iso's theory.
I'm wary of proceeding with a GJ lynch. Haven't decided where I want to put my vote back yet.
I find it hard to believe that the entire playerbase save two townreads and two scumreads are null to you.
What are your thoughts on Smoke_Killah and emo_pinata so far?
Can we not make a dichotomy out of KCC and GJ? There is a possibility that they're both town.
Iso didn't have a reason. You voted me post 104, but Iso didn't justify his vote until post 116. Man, you are so guilty it hurts. The votes at that point were Ocean's RVS vote, Iso's reasonless vote, and BE2's "let's bandwagon TCM". You gave no reason for your dislike of my posts, and any comment you made on your dislike at the time, would have been original.
Your back and forth with me, nothing I was doing you were questioning. You seemed content to just passively answer my questions, and throw an occasional one liner.
You considering to put a vote on Kami, implies you are willing to lynch Kami. You clearly weren't town reading him at this stage, if you were considering hopping on his wagon, why are you balking at this?
If you wanna try this again, that's fine. Something went screwy with what you were trying to link, so I am just getting urls with spoilers.
Really, and how is that coming along? I am curious if Iso is willing to test his tell here.
You one/two questions. I'll borrow from Iso here:
...and then you pretty much snap vote him, dismissing his post completely, while also trying to justify how you could have believed it.
.
This feels like you are bussing the absolute ***** out of him, which brings me to this:
1). I forgot who asked. I have been going back and forth so much, I don't care much to look it up. I don't know how I see Iso right now. I can't believe a scum Iso would think his "trap" is any real tell, his back and forth with me feels weird, and the only slight ping I got from him was him trying to be conscious about how he might 180 on me if KCC flips scum (if KCC flips town though, then this obviously doesn't mean anything). He will be figured out by hopefully day 3, so I am more than content to hunt the other two.
2):
1). I don't see the correlation between pushing back, and going after him.
2). Faulty logic is not =/= to being scum. If it were, I would just policy lynch Seppel every game and move on.
So, you just uttered that you can't understand why I am not going after Iso, but then in the same post, you say that going after Iso would put too much suspicion on me, and going after KCC is basically the lower hanging fruit? By that logic, I already have some momentum where BF really has zero. Using your logic, going after BF would put even more suspicion on you, so you go after the much easier target: Me.
Mm, but you are. That's the thing when you decide to put a dichotomy on two players: By saying one of us is scum, and voting a player, you are declaring that I am the scum, and she is the townie. Unless you are trying to sell that it's a bus...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Unvote KCC, Vote Kami
Kami flipping scum should cement you. We have seven days left, and I dislike haste.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
TCM simply knows that bad logic does not equal scum. Not scummy
And I'm a flying pig serial killer who wins with the town.
I agree.
Kami is KA, right? No DGB in this game?
Which he pretty much said word for word. Read, goddamnit.
I asked. You are saying now that KamikazeArchon's scumflip will cement it for KCC. This was a theory that Iso initially put forth - of a KA/KCC scumteam. If you believe so strongly in it, I'd assume you'd be townreading Iso for mirroring your thoughts.
Do you think he's bussing both his partners (KA and KCC) or is he a backup suspect in case one or both of them flip town?
unvote
I trust more of the people on s_K wagon. That doesn't mean I am going to jump on without a good reason. I've never felt like anyone has given a super compelling reason to vote for him. Though, I am growing weary of the waiting game for the content he promised, there are only so many days left and stalling will only get you so far.
@Seppel - I know, right? It seems my pre-game ability to shoot you with my unicorn pixie dust cupid's arrow successfully enthralled you.
I genuinely suspect KCC is scum. Call me a liar, or up the bet.
The people on the s_K wagon, from what I have seen, would for the most part, be pro-Kami as well. If Kami is scum, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume there is at least one scum on him. In addition, we have a six day deadline. Time is not on our side, as as both Kami and s_K have proved (as well as most people), we can't guarantee to be on everyday. We need to figure out today's lynch yesterday, and if it doesn't work, we need to figure out who would be next.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Bottomline - I think the laziness in not showing up when he is a lynch possibility, the wishy-washy, uncertain reads-list etc make more sense coming from town. I think he would have approached this situation differently had he been scum. So, smoke is probably town.
KA is a player I'm re-evaluating based on his latest posts. There's something that GJ said that makes me think that he's town but it is not certain and I want more data in thread before I talk about it. Just putting it here for later reference.
I'm probably going to go with one of KCC/KA for my vote today.
Vote KittyCupcake
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
V/LA April 20-29 Finals
V/LA April 30-May 6 Vegas (this is way less detracting, surprisingly enough)
All I can say from a quick skim (being as I'm studying) is that I really doubt TCM is scum. I think Town/Town is totally within the realm of possibility with him/KCC, as well.
FWIW, it wasn't paranoia, it was not wanting to provide TCM an easy out to pressure.
She put very little effort into solving the game. Whenever I recall her posts, all I remember is her answering GJ's push on her. She votes KA, she never re-evaluates her read or continue to dynamically refine her reads. She's cast a vote on a wagon that will likely go through, and spent the rest of time justifying herself to GJ.
To some extent, this is fine. If someone's writing a case on you, I'd expect some response. But the lack of just stopping for a second and looking at the game from a bird's eye view is concerning.
That being said, his posts so far in this game seems similar in tone to posts like these:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/446779-annoraxs-bastard-mod-mafia-game-over-sepiriels?comment=917
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/446779-annoraxs-bastard-mod-mafia-game-over-sepiriels?comment=978
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/446779-annoraxs-bastard-mod-mafia-game-over-sepiriels?comment=1558
which is all that I really meant in the first place.
smoke_Killah
Iso said something very odd day 1 IMO, "And now we wait." -- I expressed my confusion.
I remember being pinged by this post, because 3 posts later, in #40, I asked "Why do I get the feeling this is a loaded question?" I remember feeling at the time that discussion was being suppressed by both of these individuals. I think that smoke didn't expect me to be able to answer or adapt to this question in a way that would be productive, could be wrong. But I did come up with something and started some discussion about self-meta/introductions. Not sure how productive it was, but it did get people talking.
In the meantime, smoke laid pretty low for a while. He asked some why's and voted for BE2 - who asked if it was serious or RVS, which smoke replied with a "serious face" spiderman photo. Spiderman is jokey by nature, so IMO this answer was not clear, and that could have been his intention.
I don't feel like smoke really started contributing until post 190, where he finally makes the reason he's voting BE clear, and his first post indicating he would not be unvoting him for meta reasons alone.
IMO, he spends most of his time focusing on BE2 and/or helpful posts for newbies that look like contributing for quite a while. This could have been again, a way of laying low and blending in, though I've certainly had tunnel vision on a person in the past.
Then in 244, he finally posts his famous, scrutinized reads post. Where he lists KA as likely scum and possibly EP due to their possible connection, but throws a question mark on me, who was pursuing their lynch at the time. He also townreads iso & KCC without reason. I don't know if I agree with Ocean or others yet who think KCC is naughty, but I do have to say, I agree with one of KCC's posts when someone said she was town. She basically said "Why? I haven't done anything." I'm not sure why she would be someone to point out as town. He also townreads GJ, who I think half of the players would at least agree, has been suspicious to some degree.
Ok this was just my first half, I'll see if I notice anything else.
Well for starters, the content we were waiting on that he finally posted isn't what we were even waiting on, it was for the reasoning behind his iso & KCC reads, no?
In #306, is when I start really getting negative vibes from smoke. Could be just frustration, but he starts the post by retorting to EP and Seppel's claims that his T/S list was garbage by saying Seppel's was just as bad, and asking EP where his was sarcastically. Plus, he used the word "softened"
Then he tells us to get over the waiting for the explanation, which he will give, and in the end, waited so long that he hoped I'd forgotten what we were actually waiting on
Ok, I have to work now - but I'll vote smoke and see if this gets us anywhere.
You know that you are wrong, because I told you so; it was a legitimate question, that you never made any attempt to answer.
By the way, do you realize that "Why do I get the feeling this is a loaded question?" is itself one? Not sure that you know what it means.
How is asking a question supposed to suppress discussion?
If that is what you thought that we were doing, why did you wait until now to say something about it?
Are you still townreading Iso?
you can read though, I assume.
What is your specific problem with that?
No; can you read?
If so, then stop misrepresenting me.
These 2 posts seem like you are trying to justify jumping on to a popular wagon that you do not understand, at a critical stage.
None of your points are actual points; looks like you are reaching to find fault with them, using very passive language so that you can absolve yourself once this goes down.
Claim time I guess?
smoke_Killah
Life is like a game of cards. The hand you are dealt is determinism; the way you play it is free will. ~Jawaharlal Nehru
Gentleman Johnny (1): KamikazeArchon
KamikazeArchon (4): Iso, ganderin_dan, KittyCupCake, Gentleman Johnny
smoke_Killah (5): Seppel, emo_pinata, Burning_Earth2, Huntzilla, Blindfaeth
Huntzilla (1) : smoke_Killah
KittyCupCake (1): OceanBlack
Not Voting: N/A
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
V/LA: ganderin_dan (sporadic until 5/6/15)
Deadline is 0800 EST, Wednesday, April 29th.
Yes, I can read. In response to a quote regarding Iso & KCC, you say the underlined above.
You asked in #431 why I waited until now to say something about it. I did say something about it then in the form of my question. Also, previously, when I was reconsidering voting you because Seppel seemed so sure, I also mentioned it then. That is post #269.
Yes I am still town reading iso, but he also has not been around due to V/LA.
I am trying to justify jumping on a popular wagon that I didn't understand at a critical stage. That doesn't make me bad. I am trying to stay open minded. I don't trust two of the people I was on the KA bandwagon with. The vote has been 4-4 for days. It is time to get more information.
I don't need to be absolved of anything. I didn't need to jump on a popular bandwagon for *****s and giggles, I was already on one.
Your response to my posts only makes me more comfortable with my decision. I am reading your "can you read?" questions in a very nasty tone. I don't think I've misrepresented you and if I have, it was not on purpose but rather a miscommunication. That doesn't mean that it is OK to insult my intellect.
Puppy Love (tracks players that target me)
Long Walk of Distraction (if I am killed while hearts are trump, kills are blocked the following Night)
Happy Honeymoon (town win condition)
And when asked about it I clarified what I meant. Since you somehow missed it, I will post it again:
Yes, you did technically ask him about it, but you did not say that it made you suspicious or "that discussion was being suppressed" (to either of us, at any point), which seems strange if you actually thought that. You also drop it rather quickly when he gives you the (obvious) answer.
My point to all of this being, (particularly if you are townreading Iso), why did you feel the need to bring it up now, in regards to me?
Yes, that is readily apparent, but I was not asking you to simply repeat yourself. I want to know why you think that is a problem.
Then why do yo continue to do it?
You missed a question:
smoke_Killah
aside from his claim being very townie, I think I see something.
I'll post mine afterward for corroboration.
I think that I know where you are going with this, but see a potential problem with it; waiting for responses before I discuss it.
smoke_Killah
I don't believe his claim, because I am not a specific suit, just a number.
My town win condition name is rest in peace, if it helps.
No. Where did this obsession with trying to win via pm roles become a thing?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Nope. mine is "One-Legged Happy Ending." Which is pretty similar to "Happy Honeymoon."
Unvote
Vote: Blindfaeth
Abilities =/= players.