2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Not everyone has this issue. -Now that I've had time to think about it, I'm pretty sure this is exactly why my role exists in this game, to let the LC mechanic have a chance to actually do something meaningful. And with the way the scum WC works, I'm the only LC choice that makes sense here, since it might buy us an extra lynch opportunity.
In fact, I now have a plan that should give us the best chances of winning:
1) Make me LC so scum can't just kill the LC immediately.
2) We lynch Cyan or hunger, since lynching plum, cythare, or iso would lose to a cyan/hunger team due to the bonding. As a bonus, these are the best lynches anyway.
3a) If they flip scum, the other scum should be obvious based on the NK choice and results/lack thereof.
3b) If they flip town, the scumteam should be obvious based on the NK, if there is one. But, even if there's no NK, then it's lylo and we have another lynch available.
Whereas, if we make anyone else LC, we need to lynch scum both Today and Tomorrow to win, and in some situations, we could even lynch scum Today and still lose (which is why hunger absolutely cannot be LC).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's super easy to assume a scenario where the scum team had a scanner who scanned seppel and thus knew he was vanilla. Makes the counter claim risk free
I'm now completely fine with lynching Cyan and KCC without re-reading.
KCC claiming "Bulletproof with stipulations" reads like the scum planning several phases ago that they were going to try to secure the LC role, coupled with Cyan's insistence that we "let Megiddo choose, though [Cyan] would probably choose [Iso] if prompted" but then "needing to reconsider" and his awful, awful claim of "I may or may not Vig somebody that I target, who knows!" has me pretty sold on this. Tie it all in with the sinister feeling I had from KCC that I couldn't explain when I was dreaming about this game, and I'm willing to overlook plum's "I have done absolutely nothing useful with my Tracker ability" in favor of lynching our obvious scum, here.
Hunger, Cythare, your assessment on the above, please.
I don't need to convince plum to lynch Cyan or KCC with me, at least, provided that the LC is somebody other than one of those three players.
As such, I am most comfortable with Hunger being the LC toDay. It ekes out the slim chance that Cythare/plum are the scum (which I think is a far and away distant possiblity at this point), preventing them from becoming the LC in that tiny, tiny universe of probability, and prevents the two players I trust the least in this game (Cyan, KCC) from becoming the LC.
@DCIII: Requesting a reconsideration to the rule that votes to elect an LC can not change due to the fact that I completely missed that rule the first time, please.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
(Oh, or making me the LC also works for my plan and essentially clears plum/Cythare if we lynch scum toDay and I'm the NK and clears me if plum/Cythare are the NK.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm now completely fine with lynching Cyan and KCC without re-reading.
KCC claiming "Bulletproof with stipulations" reads like the scum planning several phases ago that they were going to try to secure the LC role, coupled with Cyan's insistence that we "let Megiddo choose, though [Cyan] would probably choose [Iso] if prompted" but then "needing to reconsider" and his awful, awful claim of "I may or may not Vig somebody that I target, who knows!" has me pretty sold on this. Tie it all in with the sinister feeling I had from KCC that I couldn't explain when I was dreaming about this game, and I'm willing to overlook plum's "I have done absolutely nothing useful with my Tracker ability" in favor of lynching our obvious scum, here.
Hunger, Cythare, your assessment on the above, please.
I don't need to convince plum to lynch Cyan or KCC with me, at least, provided that the LC is somebody other than one of those three players.
As such, I am most comfortable with Hunger being the LC toDay. It ekes out the slim chance that Cythare/plum are the scum (which I think is a far and away distant possiblity at this point), preventing them from becoming the LC in that tiny, tiny universe of probability, and prevents the two players I trust the least in this game (Cyan, KCC) from becoming the LC.
@DCIII: Requesting a reconsideration to the rule that votes to elect an LC can not change due to the fact that I completely missed that rule the first time, please.
Seems like you're making a big deal out of nothing here. I still think that my plan of 'go with whatever Megiddo chose' is the best plan. No new meaningful information has entered the game since Megiddo died, and his choice is at least 100% trustworthy. But no one else that I care about the opinion of wants to go along with this, so..what else am I supposed to do? Of course I need time to reconsider. And I still haven't made up my mind.
And keep in mind, I made that post after you declared your unchangeable Elect for KCC. If you were correct that the scum team is me and KCC, why would I even bother with my suggestion there? I would just go along with you electing KCC and hope that you or Hunger could be convinced to vote for MP/Cythare at any point ever, which would instantly win the game for my scum team.
As for my claim. Should I have Seppeled it and just claimed whatever I felt like? Clearly that worked out very well for him. I claimed the role I was given. I am not bad at (false)claiming as scum, and you know it.
Like..I would have to be a godawful scum player for anything you are accusing me of here to make any sense whatsoever. I'm not, and you know it. So the question for me is, why are you reaching so hard to make me look bad here?
Something seems very amiss now. I'm deciding between Hunger and KCC for my LC vote, but need to re-read some early(er) game interactions first.
Seems like you're making a big deal out of nothing here. I still think that my plan of 'go with whatever Megiddo chose' is the best plan. No new meaningful information has entered the game since Megiddo died, and his choice is at least 100% trustworthy. But no one else that I care about the opinion of wants to go along with this, so..what else am I supposed to do? Of course I need time to reconsider. And I still haven't made up my mind.
We have you tripping all over yourself, actually, which is pretty good "new" information. I'd also daresay that KCC refusing to claim at this juncture is pretty informative. Again - why would you trust Megiddo's choice over your own? Do you think Megiddo is a better player than you are? Do you not think you're town? This is an inconsistent mindset, and a scum one, as such.
Quote from Cyan »
And keep in mind, I made that post after you declared your unchangeable Elect for KCC. If you were correct that the scum team is me and KCC, why would I even bother with my suggestion there? I would just go along with you electing KCC and hope that you or Hunger could be convinced to vote for MP/Cythare at any point ever, which would instantly win the game for my scum team.
Because it wouldn't tie you and [scumbuddy] together if one of you flipped scum. Additionally, there's a fair chance that Megiddo could have chosen you or KCC as the LC, which not only removes the information of "who elected whom" but also means neither of you have to convince anyone else to be in favor of one of you being the LC.
Quote from Cyan »
As for my claim. Should I have Seppeled it and just claimed whatever I felt like? Clearly that worked out very well for him. I claimed the role I was given. I am not bad at (false)claiming as scum, and you know it.
Given the phrasing of Chris's ability and the nature of my own, as well as the existence of the LC, it's incredibly dubious that your role would ever exist in a game.
Quote from Cyan »
Like..I would have to be a godawful scum player for anything you are accusing me of here to make any sense whatsoever. I'm not, and you know it. So the question for me is, why are you reaching so hard to make me look bad here?
You're also not a bad town player, and townCyan would not only NOT defer to another player's judgment when it comes to who to trust with a double vote, but would also know better than to claim "I'm a 1-Shot Vig! Oh, but my target MIGHT be random, herf derf!" At that point, you would simply either not shoot, ever, and you might even be better off claiming vanilla. But scumCyan has every reason not to claim vanilla, especially if your buddy is KCC. "Why didn't your shot go through last Night, Cyan?" "Oh, must have been that silly random clause, which means KCC took the bullet, which confirms both of us! Let's lynch Cythare/plum! Choo choo!" None of your play makes sense from a town perspective, which is what you should be arguing (another catch, I'd say) instead of explaining why your play DOESN'T make sense from a scum perspective (which it totally does) by strawmanning the issue.
Quote from Cyan »
Something seems very amiss now. I'm deciding between Hunger and KCC for my LC vote, but need to re-read some early(er) game interactions first.
I'll tell you what's amiss - the blue in your role PM.
Given that you have stated all game that you would not lynch me and I'm totally town and that my ability use can only make sense from a town perspective, etc., why are you unwilling to now elect me the LC?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We have you tripping all over yourself, actually, which is pretty good "new" information. I'd also daresay that KCC refusing to claim at this juncture is pretty informative. Again - why would you trust Megiddo's choice over your own? Do you think Megiddo is a better player than you are? Do you not think you're town? This is an inconsistent mindset, and a scum one, as such.
None of this actually addresses what I said. But yes, I do think that Megiddo
Because it wouldn't tie you and [scumbuddy] together if one of you flipped scum. Additionally, there's a fair chance that Megiddo could have chosen you or KCC as the LC, which not only removes the information of "who elected whom" but also means neither of you have to convince anyone else to be in favor of one of you being the LC.
Toward the end of yesterday, you were pretty clearly willing to go along with an MP lynch. And when I made that post, the only person with an election vote in their favor was KCC. Why would I need to say *anything* there if I were scum and KCC were my scumbuddy? Like, maaaaaaybe you would have an argument here if KCC were my scumbuddy and were in danger of losing the vote. But that was very obviously not the case.
As scum, for me to make that post, I am literally risking everything to gain nothing. You are trying to create a scum motivation for my posts here where none can conceivably exist. This is not even necessarily scummy on your part, but is is undeniably bad play. And you're not a bad player, so I need to figure out what is going on here.
Given the phrasing of Chris's ability and the nature of my own, as well as the existence of the LC, it's incredibly dubious that your role would ever exist in a game.
You mean, a bunch of roles that I knew about before I claimed? And I'm all but certain that Cythare and MP are not actually going to die together. You tacked that on to your role for a reason that I still haven't figured out yet, but am going to.
Seriously, your entire argument rests on me just forgetting how to be a good scum player and throwing everything away to gain nothing. I could have claimed Vanilla and it would have been less dubious than my actual role here.
You're also not a bad town player, and townCyan would not only NOT defer to another player's judgment when it comes to who to trust with a double vote, but would also know better than to claim "I'm a 1-Shot Vig! Oh, but my target MIGHT be random, herf derf!" At that point, you would simply either not shoot, ever, and you might even be better off claiming vanilla. But scumCyan has every reason not to claim vanilla, especially if your buddy is KCC. "Why didn't your shot go through last Night, Cyan?" "Oh, must have been that silly random clause, which means KCC took the bullet, which confirms both of us! Let's lynch Cythare/plum! Choo choo!" None of your play makes sense from a town perspective, which is what you should be arguing (another catch, I'd say) instead of explaining why your play DOESN'T make sense from a scum perspective (which it totally does) by strawmanning the issue.[/qoute]
I am actually not a great town player. The vast majority of my strength as a mafia player resides in my scum game. And when I am town, I virtually never lie about my role, except in the most obviously necessary situations(I also regularly get on other people's case about doing so). I don't even get what you're saying about my claimed role interacting with KCC as my scumbuddy.
And none of my play makes sense from a town perspective? Why don't you contradict yourself a little more?
[quote]
Given that you have stated all game that you would not lynch me and I'm totally town and that my ability use can only make sense from a town perspective, etc., why are you unwilling to now elect me the LC? Is that so?
Oh, you mean the same things you've been saying about me for the vast majority of the game?
Some thing about your play today just bothers me, and I need to figure it out. I'm not even saying 'Iso is scum'. I'm saying that, right now, I am not comfortable with the idea of you being hte LC. You'll have to just forgive me for being suspicious of you when you have decided to champion a cause that involves me being scum at the absolute most convenient moment for you if YOU are scum. I feel like I am able to read you reasonably well, so when you act in a manner that does not fit within the read I have of you at that time, it causes me misgivings.
They huddled around, more careful than ever not to take their eyes off of each other. A ballot or two had been cast, but most looked around with wide eyes, studying their comrades. Not only must they feel sure that they were not handing leadership to a traitor within, they also had to pick someone with resolve, who would rally to lead them. Did anyone even fit that criteria?
We have you tripping all over yourself, actually, which is pretty good "new" information. I'd also daresay that KCC refusing to claim at this juncture is pretty informative. Again - why would you trust Megiddo's choice over your own? Do you think Megiddo is a better player than you are? Do you not think you're town? This is an inconsistent mindset, and a scum one, as such.
None of this actually addresses what I said. But yes, I do think that Megiddo
Because it wouldn't tie you and [scumbuddy] together if one of you flipped scum. Additionally, there's a fair chance that Megiddo could have chosen you or KCC as the LC, which not only removes the information of "who elected whom" but also means neither of you have to convince anyone else to be in favor of one of you being the LC.
Toward the end of yesterday, you were pretty clearly willing to go along with an MP lynch. And when I made that post, the only person with an election vote in their favor was KCC. Why would I need to say *anything* there if I were scum and KCC were my scumbuddy? Like, maaaaaaybe you would have an argument here if KCC were my scumbuddy and were in danger of losing the vote. But that was very obviously not the case.
As scum, for me to make that post, I am literally risking everything to gain nothing. You are trying to create a scum motivation for my posts here where none can conceivably exist. This is not even necessarily scummy on your part, but is is undeniably bad play. And you're not a bad player, so I need to figure out what is going on here.
Given the phrasing of Chris's ability and the nature of my own, as well as the existence of the LC, it's incredibly dubious that your role would ever exist in a game.
You mean, a bunch of roles that I knew about before I claimed? And I'm all but certain that Cythare and MP are not actually going to die together. You tacked that on to your role for a reason that I still haven't figured out yet, but am going to.
Seriously, your entire argument rests on me just forgetting how to be a good scum player and throwing everything away to gain nothing. I could have claimed Vanilla and it would have been less dubious than my actual role here.
You're also not a bad town player, and townCyan would not only NOT defer to another player's judgment when it comes to who to trust with a double vote, but would also know better than to claim "I'm a 1-Shot Vig! Oh, but my target MIGHT be random, herf derf!" At that point, you would simply either not shoot, ever, and you might even be better off claiming vanilla. But scumCyan has every reason not to claim vanilla, especially if your buddy is KCC. "Why didn't your shot go through last Night, Cyan?" "Oh, must have been that silly random clause, which means KCC took the bullet, which confirms both of us! Let's lynch Cythare/plum! Choo choo!" None of your play makes sense from a town perspective, which is what you should be arguing (another catch, I'd say) instead of explaining why your play DOESN'T make sense from a scum perspective (which it totally does) by strawmanning the issue.[/qoute]
I am actually not a great town player. The vast majority of my strength as a mafia player resides in my scum game. And when I am town, I virtually never lie about my role, except in the most obviously necessary situations(I also regularly get on other people's case about doing so). I don't even get what you're saying about my claimed role interacting with KCC as my scumbuddy.
And none of my play makes sense from a town perspective? Why don't you contradict yourself a little more?
[quote]
Given that you have stated all game that you would not lynch me and I'm totally town and that my ability use can only make sense from a town perspective, etc., why are you unwilling to now elect me the LC? Is that so?
Oh, you mean the same things you've been saying about me for the vast majority of the game?
Some thing about your play today just bothers me, and I need to figure it out. I'm not even saying 'Iso is scum'. I'm saying that, right now, I am not comfortable with the idea of you being hte LC. You'll have to just forgive me for being suspicious of you when you have decided to champion a cause that involves me being scum at the absolute most convenient moment for you if YOU are scum. I feel like I am able to read you reasonably well, so when you act in a manner that does not fit within the read I have of you at that time, it causes me misgivings.
This entire post reads to the effect of, "Iso, you'd better stop scumreading me or I'm gonna scumread you!"
I'm not backing down.
You're scum.
Period.
(I giggled at the fact that for whatever reason, your post cut off before fully answering my question about Megiddo.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
he didn't interact with Cyan a single time all game long.
The only time he mentioned KCC was when he was trying to "help" her create a T/S list during her Silence. And he didn't even follow that through.
On the contrary, though, he interacted with Hunger all game long and tried to set up a Seppel/Chris dichotomy upon his death by listing them as his last scum reads. I agree with Seppel - Hunger is cleared, here.
I know that plum and Cythare are the same alignment due to my ability, and I also know that Cyan is scum, which means they are town. Occam's Razor says the scumteam is Cyan/KCC. The only thing KCC has going for her is the Silencer gambit, but her attempting to claim some form of Bulletproof reeks of a scum gambit a mile away and makes it fairly obvious that she's the last scum.
Cyan's mindset is inconsistent, his claim is one of the worst I've ever seen, he and Killjoy (flipped scum) didn't interact a single time, and he's proposing a suboptimal plan for determining the LC. This guy is scum. Lynch him with fire once we elect an LC that isn't KCC, his scumbuddy.
Colored Antny and plum blue because I know they're town and so do the scum.
Killjoy and I have discussed T/S list positioning as far as where scum are likely to put their buddies, before. Fairly extensively, actually. He knows that I look for disharmonious and non-genuine reads insofar as T/S lists go from flipped scum, and that they're a huge goldmine of information, if we're being frank, here. As such, Killjoy put his scumbuddies in "leaning town" and "town" to generate WIFOM - do you really think he'd bus his buddy all game and not interact once with the two other players whose alignments are being called into question, here? No offense to Killjoy, but he doesn't have that kind of forethought in Mafia. No, this is clearly a plant by Killjoy, and his 180 on Hunger at the last minute reads like an attempt simply to sow further WIFOM. I don't believe that in the pinnacle of his wagon, when he's about to be lynched, he'd draw that kind of attention to his buddy.
The proof is all there, folks.
I just need your help.
I'm mostly interested in Cythare and Hunger's takes on this, as I don't really expect plum to be amicable to accepting my case at face value.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh wow, look at all of these scum-Iso posts. Thanks for showing your complete scum colors.
This entire post reads to the effect of, "Iso, you'd better stop scumreading me or I'm gonna scumread you!"
I'm not backing down.
You're scum.
Period.
(I giggled at the fact that for whatever reason, your post cut off before fully answering my question about Megiddo.)
First we have this. This absolutely reads as 'I am scum and I have something to hide'. If Iso were town here, he wouldn't care if I went back and looked at his posts again. And if he were town, he wouldn't try to pre-emptively prevent me from doing so. Especially if he thought I were scum. He would wait to see what I came up with and defend himself. We're not talking about a player that worries that he might not be able to do exactly this. When he is town, Iso is completely fearless. He is acting this way because he has overstepped and he knows it.
And then, his next post. Conveniently, KJ hasn't had any interactions with me. Did Iso take the time to see if the same could be said of KJ and anyone else in the game? Apparently not. This is not a point; this is making something out of nothing. Also, the part where KJ has enough foresight to remember these conversations with Iso, but not enough to apply them appropriately, is just great. It works one way or the other, Iso.
And then of course, Iso tries to spin KJ's town/scum list to his own benefit. Because, you know, scum always try to put both of their buddies in the town pile. In a game where, according to Iso, KJ should do the exact opposite. And knows it. Give me a break.
Also, note how Iso didn't address ANY of the points I made that make it unlikely for me to be scum. Instead he just moves on and tries to dupe everyone with some other line of attack.
And leaving the LC vote up to Megiddo is not a sub-optimal plan. It simply is not. I truly believe that this is the best course of action. Iso obviously hates this plan, because Megiddo made it clear that he doesn't trust Iso. His interests here are self-serving and nothing else, and his objection to this is based purely on the fact that he won't get selected. I expected better out of Hunger, but oh well.
I also figured out the rest of what has been bothering me about Iso lately. Iso was thoroughly opposed to Cythare ever being lynched, ostensibly because of Iso's ability. But then, when I moved on to trying to get MP lynched instead, Iso was suddenly extremely amenable to this. What this means is simple: Iso lied about his claimed role, and had it planned from before the game even began(guess you were right about that one MP, sorry). He intentionally chose his scumbuddy Antny to be 'tied together' with someone that he thought he could get NKed by saying they were the LC. Them 'dying together' was just a further fabrication. He was banking on MP getting NKed and flipping scum, and then being able to say 'Oh I just lied about the part where they die together to try to get the scum to kill MP'. Then Antny and Iso would both look town, and neither would be likely to ever actually get NKed, because the scum would be too busy trying to kill the LC. And even if Iso somehow died, it wouldn't reflect that poorly on Antny, because a scum fake-claiming such an investigative role would most likely choose two townies anyway.
Should have just kept your cool for a little longer, Iso. You almost pulled it all off. But you jumped the gun.
I'm really annoyed I didn't figure out the game sooner because now my credibility is in question and we have everything to lose. Slant
Trust me on this one, guys.
And then we have this post, which is so completely and utterly forced that even a blind man wouldn't be fooled by it.
I'm mostly interested in Cythare and Hunger's takes on this, as I don't really expect plum to be amicable to accepting my case at face value.
Oh, this is especially great. This is Iso appealing to literally his scumbuddy and the guy he thinks is going to become LC. Even though, for Cythare to be town, MP also has to be town according to Iso's claimed role. This is a complete cognitive disconnect on Iso's part and 100% shows the insincerity of his post.
I'll refute your post after work today (so, sometime in the evening). In the meantime, please address why you are lying about...well, pretty much everything.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Originally because I wanted to split up the LC from the bonded people, but I accept Seppel's logic about Hunger/Killjoy and think Hunger would be a better LC.
I'm now completely fine with lynching Cyan and KCC without re-reading.
KCC claiming "Bulletproof with stipulations" reads like the scum planning several phases ago that they were going to try to secure the LC role, coupled with Cyan's insistence that we "let Megiddo choose, though [Cyan] would probably choose [Iso] if prompted" but then "needing to reconsider" and his awful, awful claim of "I may or may not Vig somebody that I target, who knows!" has me pretty sold on this. Tie it all in with the sinister feeling I had from KCC that I couldn't explain when I was dreaming about this game, and I'm willing to overlook plum's "I have done absolutely nothing useful with my Tracker ability" in favor of lynching our obvious scum, here.
Hunger, Cythare, your assessment on the above, please.
I'm not sure what else you want me to say - I've been scumreading Cyan since replacing in, and the interaction between Hunger and KJ has made Hunger way town, leaving you or KCC.
And the piece missing there because I'd been copying and pasting is that I find it less likely that you're scum than KCC is at this point for the reasons you noted about the gambit and lack of interactions.
I'm now completely fine with lynching Cyan and KCC without re-reading.
So... rather than looking at actual behavior, you are making a complete 180 on your read based on.... total BS (which I'll dissect point by point in a minute).
And this dramatic reversal just happens to occur right when you realize that making me LC would add a lynch to the game.
Yeah, you're scum. I knew I shouldn't have bought that "emotional disconnect" nonsense on D1. -You realized that having an unkillable LC would make it much, much harder to win, also knew that you couldn't justify throwing your top townread into the scumpile based on anything that's actually in the thread, and resorted to some desperate smoke and mirrors to get the LC placed anywhere else.
KCC claiming "Bulletproof with stipulations" reads like the scum planning several phases ago that they were going to try to secure the LC role
-Except I CCed seppel. So, what, I came up with this cunning plan, Seppel claimed close to it, and I said, "Whatever, I'm going ahead with the plan anyway, who cares if it sets up a dichotomy with a townie, what could possibly go wrong there?" And then, when pressured for the details, I decided the best idea would be to irritate everyone by refusing to give more. Because clearly, pissing everyone off would be much better for this plan than to just cooperate.
I'd also daresay that KCC refusing to claim at this juncture is pretty informative.
No, you know damn well that the only reason I'm not giving details on my ability is to not expose any weaknesses it might have, and you're just grasping at straws here to throw things against me/maybe get me to share my full ability.
Given the phrasing of Chris's ability and the nature of my own, as well as the existence of the LC, it's incredibly dubious that your role would ever exist in a game.
"Why didn't your shot go through last Night, Cyan?" "Oh, must have been that silly random clause, which means KCC took the bullet, which confirms both of us! Let's lynch Cythare/plum! Choo choo!"
And now you are completely making up events that never happened to paint me as scum.
The only time he mentioned KCC was when he was trying to "help" her create a T/S list during her Silence. And he didn't even follow that through.
1) I was ******* silenced. No one was interacting with me.
2) Do you think, maybe, he might have silenced me to avoid having to deal with me? -I doubt the ability was used to make me more involved.
3) Is there a reason you are ignoring this gem:
Question: how common is a role that inflicts Post Restrictions on people?
Yeah, the very first thing KJ did was come out and try to throw doubt on me. When no one bit, he dropped it.
Also, I pretty much single handedly got KJ lynched, despite being silenced.
And Iso missed all of these important things, while also making up things that never happened. I'm feeling confident in Iso/X now, likely Iso/Cyan since this whole back and forth feels forced, but we'll see what Cyan does here.
While I was at work, I was thinking about this game, and I can't help but get this sinking feeling that the scumteam is Cyan/KCC. Cyan's taken on the exact tone that he had near endgame of Redux 2 where he was trying to buddy me and convince me to lynch AE with him, and there was something about KCC that I was thinking about when I was asleep with regards to this game that I can't remember now but it's put me on edge. But with regards to Cyan, I just don't understand his "let's have Megiddo choose the LC!" rationale. If he genuinely wanted town elected, he would simply vote for me, which makes me think he's hoping the role of LC lands on himself. Tie that with the incessant insistence that I was lying about my ability's tying clause + pushing the plum/Cythare lynch, I'm pretty sure we need to lynch Cyan, toDay.
Let's lay out the facts:
We have to lynch toDay. We can not run the risk that the scumteam is NOT Cythare/plum, as that will result in an instant town loss. Well, unless...
@DCIII: Does the mafia's win condition activate immediately when they control the vote, or will there be a chance to elect a new LC? Does the original LC have access to the spectator chat? If so, does he know who the scum are?
Anyway, here's the way I see it:
My ability basically clears me. Coupled with my behavior, I'm the shiniest beacon of town in the game at present. Which is a little sad, considering I've taken a mostly backseat role in this game. Either way, if I flip, that confirms that plum and Cythare are of the same alignment. Which brings up...
Cythare/plum - If they're not scum, then the scum can't afford to kill anyone else toNight, presuming we lynch correctly. (If we don't we ******* lose depending on what DCIII says to my above question so whatever.) So let's say we lynch correctly toDay. That means the scum can't kill me, because that will make Cythare/plum confirmed town, which means they will be the default for the LC. If they kill the townie among Hunger/KCC/Cyan, they expose themselves. So if we buy ourselves another Day, that means endgame will likely be Iso, Hunger, & KCC. (This is still assuming that the scum aren't simply Cythare/plum.)
I'm gonna try to get a re-read in tonight after a nap so that I can make sure that Cyan/KCC is the route I want to go and not Hunger for some reason.
I'd like plum to claim his result, if he even has one.
I'd also like discussion on my plan from everyone.
We don't HAVE to lynch toDay (more on this in a later post). Cyan's wanting to trust Meg and not just voting you despite his insistence all game that you cannot possibly be scum is bad. It does seem like he was keeping his options open by not voting for his 100% town read right away and deferring to Meg.
Your role doesn't confirm you until you flip. Cythare and plum flipping town together likely means you are town as that would be a bit OP as a scum ability, but yeah, right now there is nothing to support your claim. If they flip together and one of them is scum, there is a very real chance you could be scum as well. If you flip, it confirms you told the truth about your ability, but they could still be any combination of alignments if you consider a Godfather. So scum can kill you, especially if you were to get LC (although that doesn't look super likely now).
This analysis overall doesn't do a whole lot for me because it's coming from you and inherently laced with WIFOM and you focus on what happens tomorrow when the important part is actually hitting the scum toDay.
I'm now completely fine with lynching Cyan and KCC without re-reading.
KCC claiming "Bulletproof with stipulations" reads like the scum planning several phases ago that they were going to try to secure the LC role, coupled with Cyan's insistence that we "let Megiddo choose, though [Cyan] would probably choose [Iso] if prompted" but then "needing to reconsider" and his awful, awful claim of "I may or may not Vig somebody that I target, who knows!" has me pretty sold on this. Tie it all in with the sinister feeling I had from KCC that I couldn't explain when I was dreaming about this game, and I'm willing to overlook plum's "I have done absolutely nothing useful with my Tracker ability" in favor of lynching our obvious scum, here.
Hunger, Cythare, your assessment on the above, please.
I don't need to convince plum to lynch Cyan or KCC with me, at least, provided that the LC is somebody other than one of those three players.
As such, I am most comfortable with Hunger being the LC toDay. It ekes out the slim chance that Cythare/plum are the scum (which I think is a far and away distant possiblity at this point), preventing them from becoming the LC in that tiny, tiny universe of probability, and prevents the two players I trust the least in this game (Cyan, KCC) from becoming the LC.
@DCIII: Requesting a reconsideration to the rule that votes to elect an LC can not change due to the fact that I completely missed that rule the first time, please.
I'm not sure how to feel about this assessment. It does seem a bit weird to me that you came to this without really rereading or doing much analysis and it's essentially on gut.
I already agreed with you on Cyan's wanting to just trust Meg. And I will say I agree Cyan's claimed ability is pretty bad. Like he said, if he is town and that's his ability there isn't much he can do about it, but it's also like the swingiest ability ever in such a small game. That, and as has been pointed out with Chris' claim and your claim, a vig role seems pretty unlikely.
KCC's claim is meh to me. I could see it going either way. It's a safe claim if they had a rolecop on Seppel. It's a risky counterclaim to Seppel if not. And the fact that she doesn't full-claim means it could be tailored to fit either way.
As for plum, I agree it's suspicious he has questionable choices and no results worth a damn. I think his posts have felt genuine and his reasoning behind his choices have felt genuine, but if you don't, it does seem kind of odd to me you would let him ride here.
he didn't interact with Cyan a single time all game long.
The only time he mentioned KCC was when he was trying to "help" her create a T/S list during her Silence. And he didn't even follow that through.
On the contrary, though, he interacted with Hunger all game long and tried to set up a Seppel/Chris dichotomy upon his death by listing them as his last scum reads. I agree with Seppel - Hunger is cleared, here.
I know that plum and Cythare are the same alignment due to my ability, and I also know that Cyan is scum, which means they are town. Occam's Razor says the scumteam is Cyan/KCC. The only thing KCC has going for her is the Silencer gambit, but her attempting to claim some form of Bulletproof reeks of a scum gambit a mile away and makes it fairly obvious that she's the last scum.
Cyan's mindset is inconsistent, his claim is one of the worst I've ever seen, he and Killjoy (flipped scum) didn't interact a single time, and he's proposing a suboptimal plan for determining the LC. This guy is scum. Lynch him with fire once we elect an LC that isn't KCC, his scumbuddy.
Colored Antny and plum blue because I know they're town and so do the scum.
Killjoy and I have discussed T/S list positioning as far as where scum are likely to put their buddies, before. Fairly extensively, actually. He knows that I look for disharmonious and non-genuine reads insofar as T/S lists go from flipped scum, and that they're a huge goldmine of information, if we're being frank, here. As such, Killjoy put his scumbuddies in "leaning town" and "town" to generate WIFOM - do you really think he'd bus his buddy all game and not interact once with the two other players whose alignments are being called into question, here? No offense to Killjoy, but he doesn't have that kind of forethought in Mafia. No, this is clearly a plant by Killjoy, and his 180 on Hunger at the last minute reads like an attempt simply to sow further WIFOM. I don't believe that in the pinnacle of his wagon, when he's about to be lynched, he'd draw that kind of attention to his buddy.
The proof is all there, folks.
I just need your help.
I'm mostly interested in Cythare and Hunger's takes on this, as I don't really expect plum to be amicable to accepting my case at face value.
While bad for Cyan, KJ didn't interact with anyone really other than me. Like, I'm pretty sure Cyan could make the same argument about you.
Antny/plum are only town in the world where your ability is 100% accurate AND Cyan is 100% scum. The fact that you and KJ have discussed it at length just means he thought it through when he posted that list most likely. It's WIFOM. I'm not willing to call it, "clearly a plant by Killjoy."
Despite my misgivings about you, in the end, gun to my head, Occam's razor right now suggests to me that your view of the game is the correct one and most in line with my thoughts so I am leaning towards a Cyan/KCC scum team as well.
I'm busy at work today so this has been slow, but more analysis and replies to follow.
Wait a damn second...something just occurred to me. What happened with our RB dichotomy? Plum and Chris both claimed RB'd N1 and with Seppel flipping town, there is no town RB. Where did we end with this? Is it possible Chris wasn't RB'd and his ability failed to a Strongman instead? I need to look back into this after I finish up my other posts.
Annnnnnd, if there is a scum RB, why would plum not be RB'd last Night? Alright, I'm pausing my other posts to go look at what Chris and plum claimed first.
If the horn was either a massblock/multi-block, it adds up, but implicates Iso in the case of a massblock. Would it actually make any sense for the horn to have been a 2-player block and not just a massblock? I've never seen anything like that, but I don't see why it couldn't be a thing. And this is IF the horn flavor was game related even.
If scum has a Strongman and a RB it adds up. Though it would likely mean the RB was limited shot as I can't see scum not having RB'd plum again as the only active info role.
OK, I think the RB thing isn't that big of a deal. Or, at least, it's inconclusive and I'd rather not focus on it toDay.
I am still working on two other posts for sure, but probably won't have more time toDay to finish them.
In case I don't get to post again before the election happens tomorrow:
@everyone - It is imperative that no one votes to lynch anyone that is not the LC when the normal voting is open. If KCC wins the vote, and is scum, a vote on anyone allows her and her buddy to tie the vote and win the game via killing the bonded pair and then controlling the vote at 3v2.
Also, if Cyan votes for Kitty, it's probably a scum claim.
But Hunger, I will point out that if we No Lynch toDay, that it's 2v2 when Day 5 rolls around because Cythare and plum will be dead. So yes, we do have to lynch toDay.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hunger, if I'm following your posts, you're saying that in order for me to be scum, either I went into the massclaim as the most townread player where I then decided to suicide CC seppel, and just happened to get ridiculously lucky OR the scumteam consists of (1)silencer (2)rolecop (3)RBer (4)strongman OR the scumteam has (1)silencer (2)rolecop (3)mass/multiRBer that just doesn't touch iso despite him claiming an info role at the start of D1.
Yeah, that about sums it up. Plus there is, you know, my behavior throughout the whole game, if anyone ever wants to bother looking at that. Also, bulletproof=extra lynch, this really shouldn't be a hard decision.
And if Cyan elects anyone other than me, it's probably a scumclaim, especially since, right now, that ties the vote, which is what he said he wanted.
So my choices appear to be A)Elect Hunger, whom is appaarently just going to vote incorrectly and cost the town the game or B)vote one of the people with one vote currently(KCC or MP). So..I will elect MP. This gives Hunger the(incorrect, IMO) option of also electing MP if he really doesn't want Megiddo to have decided the vote. I like electing MP anyway, because I don't see any conceivable way that he could be scum with Iso. To be fair, the same applies to KCC, but I can't elect him because people would just misconstrue this as me electing my scumbuddy.
To be fair, the same applies to KCC, but I can't elect him because people would just misconstrue this as me electing my scumbuddy.
This is your excuse for not electing the player who buys an extra lynch? And, while MP is the one other player who I'm most comfortable with having as LC, hasn't he been your strongest scumread all game?
Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's not a hunger/cyan team now, since it would've been very easy for cyan to elect hunger here, no questions asked.
No. Cythare has been my strongest scum read all game. Congrats on apparently not actually reading my posts. MP was second in line, to be fair, and I spent yesterday trying to get him lynched because just focusing on Cythare wasn't working out, and I wanted people to realize that they were both scummy.
But circumstances have forced me to move on. Iso's behavior today has been completely and utterly scummy. I'm sure there is other evidence throughout the game, which I will go find once the LC election is over.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Mod - Does the previous LC rank the players so that the LC goes to someone who was tied for the vote, or in the event of a tie does it just go to the ONE person the previous LC picked even if they have no votes?
But Hunger, I will point out that if we No Lynch toDay, that it's 2v2 when Day 5 rolls around because Cythare and plum will be dead. So yes, we do have to lynch toDay.
I haven't posted that part yet, but it was under the assumption I was elected LC.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why is plum not your first choice?
Why is Cythare not your first choice?
Also, no, hunger is one of the worst possible LC choices.
Not everyone has this issue. -Now that I've had time to think about it, I'm pretty sure this is exactly why my role exists in this game, to let the LC mechanic have a chance to actually do something meaningful. And with the way the scum WC works, I'm the only LC choice that makes sense here, since it might buy us an extra lynch opportunity.
In fact, I now have a plan that should give us the best chances of winning:
1) Make me LC so scum can't just kill the LC immediately.
2) We lynch Cyan or hunger, since lynching plum, cythare, or iso would lose to a cyan/hunger team due to the bonding. As a bonus, these are the best lynches anyway.
3a) If they flip scum, the other scum should be obvious based on the NK choice and results/lack thereof.
3b) If they flip town, the scumteam should be obvious based on the NK, if there is one. But, even if there's no NK, then it's lylo and we have another lynch available.
Whereas, if we make anyone else LC, we need to lynch scum both Today and Tomorrow to win, and in some situations, we could even lynch scum Today and still lose (which is why hunger absolutely cannot be LC).
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That should be pretty obvious
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's what I assumed, but you hadn't said it outright.
no ur rong
Really. Where?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's super easy to assume a scenario where the scum team had a scanner who scanned seppel and thus knew he was vanilla. Makes the counter claim risk free
KCC claiming "Bulletproof with stipulations" reads like the scum planning several phases ago that they were going to try to secure the LC role, coupled with Cyan's insistence that we "let Megiddo choose, though [Cyan] would probably choose [Iso] if prompted" but then "needing to reconsider" and his awful, awful claim of "I may or may not Vig somebody that I target, who knows!" has me pretty sold on this. Tie it all in with the sinister feeling I had from KCC that I couldn't explain when I was dreaming about this game, and I'm willing to overlook plum's "I have done absolutely nothing useful with my Tracker ability" in favor of lynching our obvious scum, here.
Hunger, Cythare, your assessment on the above, please.
I don't need to convince plum to lynch Cyan or KCC with me, at least, provided that the LC is somebody other than one of those three players.
As such, I am most comfortable with Hunger being the LC toDay. It ekes out the slim chance that Cythare/plum are the scum (which I think is a far and away distant possiblity at this point), preventing them from becoming the LC in that tiny, tiny universe of probability, and prevents the two players I trust the least in this game (Cyan, KCC) from becoming the LC.
@DCIII: Requesting a reconsideration to the rule that votes to elect an LC can not change due to the fact that I completely missed that rule the first time, please.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Seems like you're making a big deal out of nothing here. I still think that my plan of 'go with whatever Megiddo chose' is the best plan. No new meaningful information has entered the game since Megiddo died, and his choice is at least 100% trustworthy. But no one else that I care about the opinion of wants to go along with this, so..what else am I supposed to do? Of course I need time to reconsider. And I still haven't made up my mind.
And keep in mind, I made that post after you declared your unchangeable Elect for KCC. If you were correct that the scum team is me and KCC, why would I even bother with my suggestion there? I would just go along with you electing KCC and hope that you or Hunger could be convinced to vote for MP/Cythare at any point ever, which would instantly win the game for my scum team.
As for my claim. Should I have Seppeled it and just claimed whatever I felt like? Clearly that worked out very well for him. I claimed the role I was given. I am not bad at (false)claiming as scum, and you know it.
Like..I would have to be a godawful scum player for anything you are accusing me of here to make any sense whatsoever. I'm not, and you know it. So the question for me is, why are you reaching so hard to make me look bad here?
Something seems very amiss now. I'm deciding between Hunger and KCC for my LC vote, but need to re-read some early(er) game interactions first.
We have you tripping all over yourself, actually, which is pretty good "new" information. I'd also daresay that KCC refusing to claim at this juncture is pretty informative. Again - why would you trust Megiddo's choice over your own? Do you think Megiddo is a better player than you are? Do you not think you're town? This is an inconsistent mindset, and a scum one, as such.
Because it wouldn't tie you and [scumbuddy] together if one of you flipped scum. Additionally, there's a fair chance that Megiddo could have chosen you or KCC as the LC, which not only removes the information of "who elected whom" but also means neither of you have to convince anyone else to be in favor of one of you being the LC.
Given the phrasing of Chris's ability and the nature of my own, as well as the existence of the LC, it's incredibly dubious that your role would ever exist in a game.
You're also not a bad town player, and townCyan would not only NOT defer to another player's judgment when it comes to who to trust with a double vote, but would also know better than to claim "I'm a 1-Shot Vig! Oh, but my target MIGHT be random, herf derf!" At that point, you would simply either not shoot, ever, and you might even be better off claiming vanilla. But scumCyan has every reason not to claim vanilla, especially if your buddy is KCC. "Why didn't your shot go through last Night, Cyan?" "Oh, must have been that silly random clause, which means KCC took the bullet, which confirms both of us! Let's lynch Cythare/plum! Choo choo!" None of your play makes sense from a town perspective, which is what you should be arguing (another catch, I'd say) instead of explaining why your play DOESN'T make sense from a scum perspective (which it totally does) by strawmanning the issue.
I'll tell you what's amiss - the blue in your role PM.
Given that you have stated all game that you would not lynch me and I'm totally town and that my ability use can only make sense from a town perspective, etc., why are you unwilling to now elect me the LC?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
None of this actually addresses what I said. But yes, I do think that Megiddo
Toward the end of yesterday, you were pretty clearly willing to go along with an MP lynch. And when I made that post, the only person with an election vote in their favor was KCC. Why would I need to say *anything* there if I were scum and KCC were my scumbuddy? Like, maaaaaaybe you would have an argument here if KCC were my scumbuddy and were in danger of losing the vote. But that was very obviously not the case.
As scum, for me to make that post, I am literally risking everything to gain nothing. You are trying to create a scum motivation for my posts here where none can conceivably exist. This is not even necessarily scummy on your part, but is is undeniably bad play. And you're not a bad player, so I need to figure out what is going on here.
You mean, a bunch of roles that I knew about before I claimed? And I'm all but certain that Cythare and MP are not actually going to die together. You tacked that on to your role for a reason that I still haven't figured out yet, but am going to.
Seriously, your entire argument rests on me just forgetting how to be a good scum player and throwing everything away to gain nothing. I could have claimed Vanilla and it would have been less dubious than my actual role here.
Oh, you mean the same things you've been saying about me for the vast majority of the game?
Some thing about your play today just bothers me, and I need to figure it out. I'm not even saying 'Iso is scum'. I'm saying that, right now, I am not comfortable with the idea of you being hte LC. You'll have to just forgive me for being suspicious of you when you have decided to champion a cause that involves me being scum at the absolute most convenient moment for you if YOU are scum. I feel like I am able to read you reasonably well, so when you act in a manner that does not fit within the read I have of you at that time, it causes me misgivings.
They huddled around, more careful than ever not to take their eyes off of each other. A ballot or two had been cast, but most looked around with wide eyes, studying their comrades. Not only must they feel sure that they were not handing leadership to a traitor within, they also had to pick someone with resolve, who would rally to lead them. Did anyone even fit that criteria?
Election Tally:
KittyCupCake (1) - Iso
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The election deadline is in 18 hours(ish)
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
This entire post reads to the effect of, "Iso, you'd better stop scumreading me or I'm gonna scumread you!"
I'm not backing down.
You're scum.
Period.
(I giggled at the fact that for whatever reason, your post cut off before fully answering my question about Megiddo.)
((But you're still scum.))
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I just looked over Killjoy's posts
he didn't interact with Cyan a single time all game long.
The only time he mentioned KCC was when he was trying to "help" her create a T/S list during her Silence. And he didn't even follow that through.
On the contrary, though, he interacted with Hunger all game long and tried to set up a Seppel/Chris dichotomy upon his death by listing them as his last scum reads. I agree with Seppel - Hunger is cleared, here.
I know that plum and Cythare are the same alignment due to my ability, and I also know that Cyan is scum, which means they are town. Occam's Razor says the scumteam is Cyan/KCC. The only thing KCC has going for her is the Silencer gambit, but her attempting to claim some form of Bulletproof reeks of a scum gambit a mile away and makes it fairly obvious that she's the last scum.
Cyan's mindset is inconsistent, his claim is one of the worst I've ever seen, he and Killjoy (flipped scum) didn't interact a single time, and he's proposing a suboptimal plan for determining the LC. This guy is scum. Lynch him with fire once we elect an LC that isn't KCC, his scumbuddy.
Let's look at Killjoy's T/S list from #864:
Colored Antny and plum blue because I know they're town and so do the scum.
Killjoy and I have discussed T/S list positioning as far as where scum are likely to put their buddies, before. Fairly extensively, actually. He knows that I look for disharmonious and non-genuine reads insofar as T/S lists go from flipped scum, and that they're a huge goldmine of information, if we're being frank, here. As such, Killjoy put his scumbuddies in "leaning town" and "town" to generate WIFOM - do you really think he'd bus his buddy all game and not interact once with the two other players whose alignments are being called into question, here? No offense to Killjoy, but he doesn't have that kind of forethought in Mafia. No, this is clearly a plant by Killjoy, and his 180 on Hunger at the last minute reads like an attempt simply to sow further WIFOM. I don't believe that in the pinnacle of his wagon, when he's about to be lynched, he'd draw that kind of attention to his buddy.
The proof is all there, folks.
I just need your help.
I'm mostly interested in Cythare and Hunger's takes on this, as I don't really expect plum to be amicable to accepting my case at face value.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Trust me on this one, guys.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
First we have this. This absolutely reads as 'I am scum and I have something to hide'. If Iso were town here, he wouldn't care if I went back and looked at his posts again. And if he were town, he wouldn't try to pre-emptively prevent me from doing so. Especially if he thought I were scum. He would wait to see what I came up with and defend himself. We're not talking about a player that worries that he might not be able to do exactly this. When he is town, Iso is completely fearless. He is acting this way because he has overstepped and he knows it.
And then, his next post. Conveniently, KJ hasn't had any interactions with me. Did Iso take the time to see if the same could be said of KJ and anyone else in the game? Apparently not. This is not a point; this is making something out of nothing. Also, the part where KJ has enough foresight to remember these conversations with Iso, but not enough to apply them appropriately, is just great. It works one way or the other, Iso.
And then of course, Iso tries to spin KJ's town/scum list to his own benefit. Because, you know, scum always try to put both of their buddies in the town pile. In a game where, according to Iso, KJ should do the exact opposite. And knows it. Give me a break.
Also, note how Iso didn't address ANY of the points I made that make it unlikely for me to be scum. Instead he just moves on and tries to dupe everyone with some other line of attack.
And leaving the LC vote up to Megiddo is not a sub-optimal plan. It simply is not. I truly believe that this is the best course of action. Iso obviously hates this plan, because Megiddo made it clear that he doesn't trust Iso. His interests here are self-serving and nothing else, and his objection to this is based purely on the fact that he won't get selected. I expected better out of Hunger, but oh well.
I also figured out the rest of what has been bothering me about Iso lately. Iso was thoroughly opposed to Cythare ever being lynched, ostensibly because of Iso's ability. But then, when I moved on to trying to get MP lynched instead, Iso was suddenly extremely amenable to this. What this means is simple: Iso lied about his claimed role, and had it planned from before the game even began(guess you were right about that one MP, sorry). He intentionally chose his scumbuddy Antny to be 'tied together' with someone that he thought he could get NKed by saying they were the LC. Them 'dying together' was just a further fabrication. He was banking on MP getting NKed and flipping scum, and then being able to say 'Oh I just lied about the part where they die together to try to get the scum to kill MP'. Then Antny and Iso would both look town, and neither would be likely to ever actually get NKed, because the scum would be too busy trying to kill the LC. And even if Iso somehow died, it wouldn't reflect that poorly on Antny, because a scum fake-claiming such an investigative role would most likely choose two townies anyway.
Should have just kept your cool for a little longer, Iso. You almost pulled it all off. But you jumped the gun.
And then we have this post, which is so completely and utterly forced that even a blind man wouldn't be fooled by it.
Oh, this is especially great. This is Iso appealing to literally his scumbuddy and the guy he thinks is going to become LC. Even though, for Cythare to be town, MP also has to be town according to Iso's claimed role. This is a complete cognitive disconnect on Iso's part and 100% shows the insincerity of his post.
I'll refute your post after work today (so, sometime in the evening). In the meantime, please address why you are lying about...well, pretty much everything.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We are going to lose due to the deadline aren't we. I'm starting to think this LC vote is somewhat of a broken mechanic.
Vote:hunger
Isos 180 on me is rather convenient. After he voted. Wonderful.
I don't trust any of you, but if I have to pick I'm going for the guy that the townie who last died screamed was town to his grave.
----
Elect: Hunger
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
So... rather than looking at actual behavior, you are making a complete 180 on your read based on.... total BS (which I'll dissect point by point in a minute).
And this dramatic reversal just happens to occur right when you realize that making me LC would add a lynch to the game.
Yeah, you're scum. I knew I shouldn't have bought that "emotional disconnect" nonsense on D1. -You realized that having an unkillable LC would make it much, much harder to win, also knew that you couldn't justify throwing your top townread into the scumpile based on anything that's actually in the thread, and resorted to some desperate smoke and mirrors to get the LC placed anywhere else.
-Except I CCed seppel. So, what, I came up with this cunning plan, Seppel claimed close to it, and I said, "Whatever, I'm going ahead with the plan anyway, who cares if it sets up a dichotomy with a townie, what could possibly go wrong there?" And then, when pressured for the details, I decided the best idea would be to irritate everyone by refusing to give more. Because clearly, pissing everyone off would be much better for this plan than to just cooperate.
No, you know damn well that the only reason I'm not giving details on my ability is to not expose any weaknesses it might have, and you're just grasping at straws here to throw things against me/maybe get me to share my full ability.
I don't know which is sadder, the fact that this is the best you could do, or the fact that no one else has an issue with this.
If you're town, you need to elect me here. Not only do I represent an extra lynch, but hunger could easily be scum with Iso.
Are you ******* kidding me?
So, you're taking the issue I brought up Yesterday, which you brushed aside, and are now running with it while calling me scum?
Yeah, okay.
And now you are completely making up events that never happened to paint me as scum.
1) I was ******* silenced. No one was interacting with me.
2) Do you think, maybe, he might have silenced me to avoid having to deal with me? -I doubt the ability was used to make me more involved.
3) Is there a reason you are ignoring this gem:
Yeah, the very first thing KJ did was come out and try to throw doubt on me. When no one bit, he dropped it.
Also, I pretty much single handedly got KJ lynched, despite being silenced.
And Iso missed all of these important things, while also making up things that never happened. I'm feeling confident in Iso/X now, likely Iso/Cyan since this whole back and forth feels forced, but we'll see what Cyan does here.
Elect: plum since he's my only solid townread.
Your role doesn't confirm you until you flip. Cythare and plum flipping town together likely means you are town as that would be a bit OP as a scum ability, but yeah, right now there is nothing to support your claim. If they flip together and one of them is scum, there is a very real chance you could be scum as well. If you flip, it confirms you told the truth about your ability, but they could still be any combination of alignments if you consider a Godfather. So scum can kill you, especially if you were to get LC (although that doesn't look super likely now).
This analysis overall doesn't do a whole lot for me because it's coming from you and inherently laced with WIFOM and you focus on what happens tomorrow when the important part is actually hitting the scum toDay.
I'm not sure how to feel about this assessment. It does seem a bit weird to me that you came to this without really rereading or doing much analysis and it's essentially on gut.
I already agreed with you on Cyan's wanting to just trust Meg. And I will say I agree Cyan's claimed ability is pretty bad. Like he said, if he is town and that's his ability there isn't much he can do about it, but it's also like the swingiest ability ever in such a small game. That, and as has been pointed out with Chris' claim and your claim, a vig role seems pretty unlikely.
KCC's claim is meh to me. I could see it going either way. It's a safe claim if they had a rolecop on Seppel. It's a risky counterclaim to Seppel if not. And the fact that she doesn't full-claim means it could be tailored to fit either way.
As for plum, I agree it's suspicious he has questionable choices and no results worth a damn. I think his posts have felt genuine and his reasoning behind his choices have felt genuine, but if you don't, it does seem kind of odd to me you would let him ride here.
While bad for Cyan, KJ didn't interact with anyone really other than me. Like, I'm pretty sure Cyan could make the same argument about you.
Antny/plum are only town in the world where your ability is 100% accurate AND Cyan is 100% scum. The fact that you and KJ have discussed it at length just means he thought it through when he posted that list most likely. It's WIFOM. I'm not willing to call it, "clearly a plant by Killjoy."
Despite my misgivings about you, in the end, gun to my head, Occam's razor right now suggests to me that your view of the game is the correct one and most in line with my thoughts so I am leaning towards a Cyan/KCC scum team as well.
I'm busy at work today so this has been slow, but more analysis and replies to follow.
If scum has a Strongman and a RB it adds up. Though it would likely mean the RB was limited shot as I can't see scum not having RB'd plum again as the only active info role.
OK, I think the RB thing isn't that big of a deal. Or, at least, it's inconclusive and I'd rather not focus on it toDay.
I am still working on two other posts for sure, but probably won't have more time toDay to finish them.
In case I don't get to post again before the election happens tomorrow:
@everyone - It is imperative that no one votes to lynch anyone that is not the LC when the normal voting is open. If KCC wins the vote, and is scum, a vote on anyone allows her and her buddy to tie the vote and win the game via killing the bonded pair and then controlling the vote at 3v2.
Also, if Cyan votes for Kitty, it's probably a scum claim.
But Hunger, I will point out that if we No Lynch toDay, that it's 2v2 when Day 5 rolls around because Cythare and plum will be dead. So yes, we do have to lynch toDay.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, that about sums it up. Plus there is, you know, my behavior throughout the whole game, if anyone ever wants to bother looking at that. Also, bulletproof=extra lynch, this really shouldn't be a hard decision.
And if Cyan elects anyone other than me, it's probably a scumclaim, especially since, right now, that ties the vote, which is what he said he wanted.
So, Elect Masterplum
Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's not a hunger/cyan team now, since it would've been very easy for cyan to elect hunger here, no questions asked.
But circumstances have forced me to move on. Iso's behavior today has been completely and utterly scummy. I'm sure there is other evidence throughout the game, which I will go find once the LC election is over.
Election Tally:
KittyCupCake (1) - Iso
Masterplum (2) - KittyCupCake, Cyan
Hunger (2) - Masterplum, Cythare
Not Voting (1) - Hunger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The election deadline is in 3ish hours
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I'm fine with him being the LC. Go ahead, Hunger.
-
Apparently by "a nap" I meant "I'm going to bed for the night" ( ), so I guess I'll be posting tonight, instead.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If it's the latter, I want to elect plum.
I think cyan voted me to tie it because neither of us are scum, hopping meg nominated a scum successor.
I would recommend voting me
You said that
Smart guy hunger is smart.
And obv town