I don't understand how my vote on you was weak, Hunt. I didn't like how you said something so I voted. Kind of an obvious vote, really. Also it is strange that you ask who I think your buddies are, I really have no bigger picture read. What a weird, bad vote on me.
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As in - he's scum, but doesn't know how to not suck at it.
I appreciate the sentiments Iso,
but I believe when I am scum I will be caught red handed, but react very differently. I am new to the game, but I am learning. If you look at my first game here on this site (Deathspeaker Mafia, it's over, I can do that! Woohoo!) you will clearly see Day 1 I get run up as well. Very similar situation where the more experienced players hate my language and want to string me up because I am such "obvscum." I really believe something similar is happening here. Instead of flipping out like I did there though, I am attempting to keep my cool and continue to go about what I would be doing anyway. Another little factoid about my play, I always am on the wagon. My vote is the most important tool I have, so I use it freely. You will find me always on the wagon. I think a bigger scum tell for me would be if I didn't help push through people's scumspects. Well, aside from myself. Never will I vote myself. Hope that helps clear some things up.
I don't understand how my vote on you was weak, Hunt. I didn't like how you said something so I voted. Kind of an obvious vote, really. Also it is strange that you ask who I think your buddies are, I really have no bigger picture read. What a weird, bad vote on me.
Weak because there was not a lot to back it up. That's all. Not a slight on your character or ability Sir Chris, just that the vote lacked a lot of back up substance.
The vote was to highlight the need to look at the votes on my wagon, as clearly scum will be jumping on pushing my mislynch.
Excuse me.
-But he hasn't been particularly reckless, suicidal, or terrible; he's been well hunted. He actually made some fairly decent attempts to shake the pressure, just nothing I haven't seen a dozen times before.
How delusional are you? You sound so much like Iso it is scary at times. Well hunted? So when I flip town, what does this statement mean then? This is what I was talking about earlier. You are seriously digging yourself a hole to have to dig out of later when your MASTERFUL SCUM HUNTING actual kills a townie. Please, everyone remember this comment.
My interest in a hunt lynch has tripled since he played the "when you'll lynch me you'll be sorry" card though. Seems premature. I think I would expect scum to try that as a tactic early
Speaking of 164, I'm surprised Cyan hasn't responded. Based on his defence and the way he's backed away from me, I'm lean scum on him, assuming Hunt flips scum.
Hunt posted his Chris vote, which reinforced my idea that self preservation was not his #1 priority which made him more likely town. I thought at the time scum hunt probably wouldn't waffle so much.
Since that time however, cupcake has astutely pointed out hunt may have simply been pandering to ISO, and ISO made the best argument I have seen so far of how hunt could act like this as scum: that he is bad.
I think I might be back on the hunt train. I don't want to lock this in yet though.
I don't recall anyone else taking issue with the post just Hunt.
Oh really?
I FOSed masterplum, quoting the post that we are referring to, before anyone else did so. THEN Killjoy also provided his thoughts, which were:
Quote from Killjoy »
If you don't think that losing the lord commander N1 isn't a big deal, then the bolded seems weird. Sort of disconnected from your other thoughts.
Also, why do you think losing confirmed town N1 isn't actually a huge loss? I don't see that specific statement coming from town.
FOS masterplum
I then followed up to make my exact point more clear, with this post:
Quote from Cyan »
I'm accusing you of trying to say the right thing, without seeming to understand why you should be saying it. This is what scum do. KJ highlighted it very well also. You imply that some sort of protective role could/should target whomever our mystery captain is, but also say that losing that person would not be a huge deal. This part is completely incorrect, incidentally. Losing a confirmed town is a big deal; when that person has a double vote and that vote has to be re-assigned(and could go to scum, making it difficult to get back), it is an even bigger deal.
And then FINALLY after all of this, Hunt made his post. So tell me more about how Hunt was the only person to 'take issue' here.
Wrong about what exactly? And why is Hunt low hanging fruit in your opinion?
Low hanging fruit means that you chose to attack the easiest person available of those that were going after masterplum. I'll just concede this point for now though, given that you seem like you just somehow missed every other anti-mp post, and you have recently chosen to vote Iso, and he is certainly not low hanging fruit.
I don't recall anyone else taking issue with the post just Hunt.
Oh really?
I FOSed masterplum, quoting the post that we are referring to, before anyone else did so.
Nope, you quoted a different post. Your FoS came before Plum posting 37 and Hunt's reply to it. Try again.
THEN Killjoy also provided his thoughts, which were:
Quote from Killjoy »
If you don't think that losing the lord commander N1 isn't a big deal, then the bolded seems weird. Sort of disconnected from your other thoughts.
Also, why do you think losing confirmed town N1 isn't actually a huge loss? I don't see that specific statement coming from town.
FOS masterplum
And that's also about post 18. Strike two.
I then followed up to make my exact point more clear, with this post:
Quote from Cyan »
I'm accusing you of trying to say the right thing, without seeming to understand why you should be saying it. This is what scum do. KJ highlighted it very well also. You imply that some sort of protective role could/should target whomever our mystery captain is, but also say that losing that person would not be a huge deal. This part is completely incorrect, incidentally. Losing a confirmed town is a big deal; when that person has a double vote and that vote has to be re-assigned(and could go to scum, making it difficult to get back), it is an even bigger deal.
And then FINALLY after all of this, Hunt made his post. So tell me more about how Hunt was the only person to 'take issue' here.
I think I've probably said enough. No one else took issue with 37 because it wasn't scummy, which is what I said in the first place.
Wrong about what exactly? And why is Hunt low hanging fruit in your opinion?
Low hanging fruit means that you chose to attack the easiest person available of those that were going after masterplum. I'll just concede this point for now though, given that you seem like you just somehow missed every other anti-mp post, and you have recently chosen to vote Iso, and he is certainly not low hanging fruit.[/quote]
Wow, your just wrong on so many things here. First I know what low hanging fruit means, I want to know why you think Hunt is low hanging fruit?
Second, It doesn't matter if other's took issue with Masterplum on other things. I called Hunt out for his weak reasoning for his vote on Masterplum. You know as well as I am that scum are happy to vote a suspicious player, but can't always find the correct reasons to do so, and therefore vote them for non-scummy stuff. On the other hand town are unlikely to engineer reasons to get on a wagon.
Also my Iso vote was clearly rvs, so that's a pretty weak reason to back away at this point.
Oh right, that was masterplum that voted Iso about 50 posts ago, not you. So, point stands. Hunt is low hanging fruit. This is especially relevant if you were aware of everyone that was attacking mp and specifically went after Hunt. There is no thought process that you can have here that looks good for you. You appear to have been aware that KJ and I were also anti: mp at that moment. But of the 3 of us, you only called out hunt. But why? If you think that KJ and I are making valid points, shouldn't you see how the wagon fully plays out first? If you don't think that we are making valid points, why would you only take issue with the easiest of the 3 targets available, and not even mention everything else?
And you are bandying semantics with your argument that you were calling Hunt to task about a different post than the one KJ and I were referring to. All of the posts in question were on the same subject.
Second, It doesn't matter if other's took issue with Masterplum on other things. I called Hunt out for his weak reasoning for his vote on Masterplum. You know as well as I am that scum are happy to vote a suspicious player, but can't always find the correct reasons to do so, and therefore vote them for non-scummy stuff. On the other hand town are unlikely to engineer reasons to get on a wagon.
I wouldn't say that it is at all this simple, there are layers of context involved. Ultimately, I would say that hunt's initial fos of masterplum was more likely to be a town post than a scum one.
But then I think mp is scum, so maybe I'm just looking at this through rose-colored glasses.
Right, for the third time of asking, can explain this please?
This is especially relevant if you were aware of everyone that was attacking mp and specifically went after Hunt. There is no thought process that you can have here that looks good for you. You appear to have been aware that KJ and I were also anti: mp at that moment. But of the 3 of us, you only called out hunt. But why? If you think that KJ and I are making valid points, shouldn't you see how the wagon fully plays out first?
The reason I called out Hunt was the question Iso asked a couple of pages ago that started all this. I don't see where I said anything that you could have taken as me saying you or KillJoy had valid points against Masterplum, subsequently I don't see why I should have held off voting something I saw as scummy just because there was another wagon in play.
If you don't think that we are making valid points, why would you only take issue with the easiest of the 3 targets available, and not even mention everything else?
Because I didn't vote him for that, I voted him for his post. If a player makes a scummy post I'm obviously going to vote them over other people who just happen to be voting the same player.
And you are bandying semantics with your argument that you were calling Hunt to task about a different post than the one KJ and I were referring to. All of the posts in question were on the same subject.
It's not semantics. He found a non scummy post to be scummy. You clearly said other players found the same post scummy too. I asked who, and tried to fob me off with people finding different posts by the same player scummy.
So, DC's clarification of Rule #3 is exactly how I perceived it when I read it, which is why I found Killjoy's post to be very odd. It also rings of RobRoy's scum tell from back in the day - focused too much on mechanics, not on hunting scum.
Now, apparently there was some confusion - enough to the point where people clearly asked DC to clarify it - so maybe my misgivings over the post weren't fully warranted. However, what is interesting is that Killjoy ignored my vote on him, entirely; and then he had the nerve to point out Masterplum hadn't responded to his post about him at all.
Well isn't that interesting. /churchladyvoice
You didn't explain it. So I didn't bother with it. I knew you'd explain it eventually, then I could respond. Now I really don't need to, since you've noticed that everyone else misinterpreted that rule as well.
But in a later post, you say I ignored a question. What question is that?
It wasn't really a question, per se, since I think I said "Let's see if you can figure out why", but I thought the invitation was pretty obvious. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but you just admitted to intentionally avoiding it above, so yeah, it was obvious.
Furthermore, I then pointed out that not only did you ignore that, you ignored my vote on you entirely, and you went ahead and got on Masterplum's case about doing the very same thing. You've ignored that portion altogether here in your response. Why is that? Why did you think Masterplum owed you an explanation, but you couldn't be bothered to give me one?
Additional nitpick: "everyone else misinterpreted the rule" is not necessarily true.
hunt a question: why do you seem so afraid of my scum game?
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Right, for the third time of asking, can explain this please?
You told me that you know what low hanging fruit means, so, why do you keep belaboring this?
The reason I called out Hunt was the question Iso asked a couple of pages ago that started all this. I don't see where I said anything that you could have taken as me saying you or KillJoy had valid points against Masterplum, subsequently I don't see why I should have held off voting something I saw as scummy just because there was another wagon in play.
There were 3 'votes' on mp that all occurred at essentially the same time. You took great issue with one of them, without even mentioning the other 2(from what I can tell). There is an obvious implication here that you didn't have an issue with mine/KJ's posts on this subject, because if you did you would have...mentioned it? It doesn't seem like you have really talked about mp/his wagon at all, you just specifically went out of your way to attack one vote that you perceived as bad, without even remotely considering the context of that vote.
Because I didn't vote him for that, I voted him for his post. If a player makes a scummy post I'm obviously going to vote them over other people who just happen to be voting the same player.
Like...exactly how much experience do you have at this game? When a scummy player votes another scummy player, you don't try and dissolve the first wagon, you keep this information in the back of your mind and process it later when the first wagon has resolved somehow. Hypothetically, let's say that masterplum got ran up and flipped scum. Would you really think that hunt was bussing here? Have you ever seen an instance of someone that busses their scumbuddy, but can only manage to come up with a (from your perspective) BAD reason to do so? This very, very rarely happens. It's not that hard to show someone is scum when you KNOW that they are. It would be one thing if you had expressed ANY kind of sentiment where you think that mp is town. But you haven't. The only thing you've said to/about mp is to call him out for changing his mind re: Hunt. And even then, it doesn't seem like you have at all stopped to consider the context/ramifications of ANY of this.
You have to take a step back here and think about your scum read and it's implications on other people, especially those involved with the person you are suspicious of.
The problem I have is that, for your viewpoint to be sincere, you *have* to think that mp is town. You just have to. But you have never taken any issue with anything anyone ELSE has said re: mp, and you have never actually given the impression that you think mp is town either. You're just railing at hunt in an immensely illogical way. And much of what you're doing is just attempting to bait him anyway.
Unrelatedly, I just wanted to mention something that has nothing to do with antny.
Quote from masterplum »
I disagree but for a different reason. Votes can do more then just push a lynch. I have on occasion voted someone for no reason whatsoever, or even with a false made up reason just to see the reactions of the people involved.
So you advocate early game lurker lynches, and vote people for bad reasons to get reactions. What are you going to tell us next, that when you are town power, you act like scum on purpose to 'see how many people will vote you'? Like..did you just read a book on 'things not to do in the game of mafia' and decide that you should start doing all of them? Jesus.
Right, for the third time of asking, can explain this please?
You told me that you know what low hanging fruit means, so, why do you keep belaboring this?
Ffs, you're just trying wind me up now aren't you.
The reason I called out Hunt was the question Iso asked a couple of pages ago that started all this. I don't see where I said anything that you could have taken as me saying you or KillJoy had valid points against Masterplum, subsequently I don't see why I should have held off voting something I saw as scummy just because there was another wagon in play.
There were 3 'votes' on mp that all occurred at essentially the same time. You took great issue with one of them, without even mentioning the other 2(from what I can tell).
Are you such a ******* idiot that really can't differentiate between votes and posts. Is that the problem?
There is an obvious implication here that you didn't have an issue with mine/KJ's posts on this subject, because if you did you would have...mentioned it?
Yes, that is correct.
It doesn't seem like you have really talked about mp/his wagon at all, you just specifically went out of your way to attack one vote that you perceived as bad, without even remotely considering the context of that vote.
Except I didn't do this, and I don't have any more energy to argue this with you when your just going to ignore what I say.
Because I didn't vote him for that, I voted him for his post. If a player makes a scummy post I'm obviously going to vote them over other people who just happen to be voting the same player.
Like...exactly how much experience do you have at this game? When a scummy player votes another scummy player, you don't try and dissolve the first wagon, you keep this information in the back of your mind and process it later when the first wagon has resolved somehow.
We are talking about a post on page 1. I'm not going to note down a post that early and wait until I know Plum's alignment before I act on it. Maybe you play mafia that way, but there's no way you've played on this forum as long as you have and not met players who actually take action when they see scummy play.
Hypothetically, let's say that masterplum got ran up and flipped scum. Would you really think that hunt was bussing here?
It was page 1. I wasn't planning on holding my vote until I got a flip.
Have you ever seen an instance of someone that busses their scumbuddy, but can only manage to come up with a (from your perspective) BAD reason to do so?
So now I'm meant to have read the vote as a bus rather than an opportunistic vote on town...because????
This very, very rarely happens. It's not that hard to show someone is scum when you KNOW that they are.
[/quote]
Oh, you were setting a strawman. Nevermind, Hunt can wait.
Vote: Cyan
It would be one thing if you had expressed ANY kind of sentiment where you think that mp is town. But you haven't. The only thing you've said to/about mp is to call him out for changing his mind re: Hunt. And even then, it doesn't seem like you have at all stopped to consider the context/ramifications of ANY of this. You have to take a step back here and think about your scum read and it's implications on other people, especially those involved with the person you are suspicious of.
I feel I owe you all an apology. I have been reckless here. In developing a scumread this early on I failed to take into account the implications it could have on the rest of the game. I deeply apologise for distress caused by my carelessness.
By seriously this is drivel now. And actually getting boring. No one, at start of Day 1 goes through any of this sort of absurd thought process over a single vote. In your attempt to defend your buddy I've think just lost all perspective whatsoever.
The problem I have is that, for your viewpoint to be sincere, you *have* to think that mp is town. You just have to. But you have never taken any issue with anything anyone ELSE has said re: mp, and you have never actually given the impression that you think mp is town either. You're just railing at hunt in an immensely illogical way. And much of what you're doing is just attempting to bait him anyway.
I don't think Masterplum is scum. I'm not going to bet the game on it, but I don't think that's really the issue here.
The issue is that I don't think all three of the first three votes on a player come from scum. I believe I have seen 2/3 of a scumteam a vote player like this early but never all three. So no I don't think it's illogical that I'm not scumreading the entire early wagon on Plum. Even if DCIII turned around and confirmed him town this second, I still wouldn't think that.
Why?
Because town votes town. Sometimes for bad reasons. That's not the same as a scummy vote. If you find that insincere then tough *****. I'm not going round in circles on this.
Hunt or Cyan today, I don't mind which at this point.
What irony? I wasn't even attacking you, I was trying to figure you out. And you flew off the handle, completely misrepresenting what I was saying and OMGUSing me in the process. This is exactly what I called it. As scum, you felt cornered and you lashed out. It is very apparent what occurred here.
Cyan - Plum does this mostly every game as either alignment. I've played with Plum for like six years now. This is standard Plum
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What irony? I wasn't even attacking you, I was trying to figure you out. And you flew off the handle, completely misrepresenting what I was saying and OMGUSing me in the process. This is exactly what I called it. As scum, you felt cornered and you lashed out. It is very apparent what occurred here.
The irony is you accuse me of OMGUS and then OMGUS.
Although it's funny you now say you weren't attacking me, which means my so called OMGUS is actually, what's it called, oh yeah, a vote?
Cyan - Plum does this mostly every game as either alignment. I've played with Plum for like six years now. This is standard Plum
...
Fine. I've moved onto better fish now anyway.
@Antny: You clearly perceived it as me attacking you, which is all that matters in this instance. It should be clear enough to everyone else that I was just trying to feel you out. Thanks for making it easy though.
So, DC's clarification of Rule #3 is exactly how I perceived it when I read it, which is why I found Killjoy's post to be very odd. It also rings of RobRoy's scum tell from back in the day - focused too much on mechanics, not on hunting scum.
Now, apparently there was some confusion - enough to the point where people clearly asked DC to clarify it - so maybe my misgivings over the post weren't fully warranted. However, what is interesting is that Killjoy ignored my vote on him, entirely; and then he had the nerve to point out Masterplum hadn't responded to his post about him at all.
Well isn't that interesting. /churchladyvoice
You didn't explain it. So I didn't bother with it. I knew you'd explain it eventually, then I could respond. Now I really don't need to, since you've noticed that everyone else misinterpreted that rule as well.
But in a later post, you say I ignored a question. What question is that?
It wasn't really a question, per se, since I think I said "Let's see if you can figure out why", but I thought the invitation was pretty obvious. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but you just admitted to intentionally avoiding it above, so yeah, it was obvious.
Furthermore, I then pointed out that not only did you ignore that, you ignored my vote on you entirely, and you went ahead and got on Masterplum's case about doing the very same thing. You've ignored that portion altogether here in your response. Why is that? Why did you think Masterplum owed you an explanation, but you couldn't be bothered to give me one?
Additional nitpick: "everyone else misinterpreted the rule" is not necessarily true.
Ahh I misread the initial post. I thought it said "Let's see who can figure out why" which is a statement I tend to ignore anyways. I see those as fishing for reasons posts, which I see no reason to respond to.
And like I said, I misread the statement, so I didn't interpret it as being directed at me.
Any other thoughts on the game? There's something specific I wanna see your opinion on. Hint: it correlates to this conversation we are having right now.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
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If you look at my first game here on this site (Deathspeaker Mafia, it's over, I can do that! Woohoo!) you will clearly see Day 1 I get run up as well. Very similar situation where the more experienced players hate my language and want to string me up because I am such "obvscum." I really believe something similar is happening here.
After looking through that game, I see that rampant OMGUS isn't a tell at all for you. But, otherwise, the situation itself really isn't the same. In that game, you were being pushed for some iffy wording tells. -That's not what's going on here. Yes, some specific words were highlighted here (which is true for most cases, considering this is a text-based game), but only to point out exactly where you've been doing underhanded things, not as a tell in and of themselves.
Also, I'm thinking that you might be trying to emulate your play from that game a little too much (I thought it was odd when you pointed out "especially" as being an adverb in this game, when it was barely relevant to the conversation; but, after seeing that you used a similar counter-argument in Deathspeaker, where it actually made sense, it makes me think you're using that as a template to mimic your town play.)
You are seriously digging yourself a hole to have to dig out of later when your MASTERFUL SCUM HUNTING actual kills a townie. Please, everyone remember this comment.
You trying to scare me off of your wagon is not going to work. I got over my fear of mislynches a long time ago.
Also, while there was a lot of OMGUS in Deathspeaker, I didn't see anything like this, anything so... I'm not even sure of the word. Fearmongery, sortof?
Assuming Seppel isn't scum, I'm pretty sure the scum are Hunt/DYH/Antny.
I'm not scum reading Antny, though it's not a strong town read either. DYH, I can never read at all, so
I mostly dislike Antny's reaction to Cyan. It seems really off-base and like he has confidence that he shouldn't with his level of experience. There are a few other things that he's done that've rubbed me the wrong way, but they're difficult to articulate upon.
As for DYH, mostly a gut reaction to his opening play and overall demeanor/paradigm shift with regards to Seppel being town.
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Assuming Seppel isn't scum, I'm pretty sure the scum are Hunt/DYH/Antny.
I'm not scum reading Antny, though it's not a strong town read either. DYH, I can never read at all, so
I mostly dislike Antny's reaction to Cyan. It seems really off-base and like he has confidence that he shouldn't with his level of experience.There are a few other things that he's done that've rubbed me the wrong way, but they're difficult to articulate upon.
This is pretty vague. Can you quote me something I've said or show I've done that you've thought is scummy?
@antny - I've skimmed through to get an idea of where votes have been going, but haven't really read everything yet. Working on going through it and taking notes still.
I stated I was reading the thread when I asked for the synopsis so I think it was pretty clear I was going to doing that anyway. What's the harm in asking for a synopsis? And what's the harm in providing one? I think it's an interesting way to provoke a lot of different types of responses.
I stated I was reading the thread when I asked for the synopsis so I think it was pretty clear I was going to doing that anyway. What's the harm in asking for a synopsis? And what's the harm in providing one? I think it's an interesting way to provoke a lot of different types of responses.
I don't think it that there's any harm in provided a synopsis, but it just seemed strange to ask for one when the game was so short. Certainly, if I replaced into a five page game, I would expect to have caught up before there was time for anyone to notice my request and write up a synopsis.
Anyway, I'll wait and see what you find in your catch up.
I see no reason why you would need a shortcut here if you are town.
Asking for a synopsis seems to be an easy way of making yourself look more active then you actually are.
At best you are being lazy, at worst you are posting filler to make it look like you are trying when you are not.
Why have you been so inactive prior to this anyways?
Like I said, my intent wasn't really as a short cut since I am reading the thread myself anyway. I wanted to see what reactions I would get since asking for a recap always seems to get various reactions.
How exactly do you think asking for a synopsis makes me look more active than I am? I think it does exactly the opposite, it makes me look lazy like you said is the best case.
For example, Iso and DYH's responses came off as towny to me, or null at worst. I would expect a scum to either try to paint me as scummy for it here, possibly to divert from a current scum wagon by shifting focus, or be over explanatory and try to sway a newcomer to their view. It looks a bit like you are doing the former, which has piqued my interest of you so I think it was a decent request on part that gave me some feedback.
I also find your inactivity question to be scum-minded. Inactivity is such an easy cop-out to call someone scummy and while you didn't explicitly state it as such here, the implication is certainly there.
But if you must know, I was v/la in another country for a wedding. Got back and my dog was nonstop puking for two days and we had to take him to the vet. I had a lot of work to catch up on. I'm in two other games that are further along and required my attention. And I had friends in town watching the opening round of the NCAA basketball tournament and drinking as is our yearly tradition. So to sum it up, lack of time in RL.
If you look at my first game here on this site (Deathspeaker Mafia, it's over, I can do that! Woohoo!) you will clearly see Day 1 I get run up as well. Very similar situation where the more experienced players hate my language and want to string me up because I am such "obvscum." I really believe something similar is happening here.
After looking through that game, I see that rampant OMGUS isn't a tell at all for you. But, otherwise, the situation itself really isn't the same. In that game, you were being pushed for some iffy wording tells. -That's not what's going on here. Yes, some specific words were highlighted here (which is true for most cases, considering this is a text-based game), but only to point out exactly where you've been doing underhanded things, not as a tell in and of themselves.
Also, I'm thinking that you might be trying to emulate your play from that game a little too much (I thought it was odd when you pointed out "especially" as being an adverb in this game, when it was barely relevant to the conversation; but, after seeing that you used a similar counter-argument in Deathspeaker, where it actually made sense, it makes me think you're using that as a template to mimic your town play.)
You are seriously digging yourself a hole to have to dig out of later when your MASTERFUL SCUM HUNTING actual kills a townie. Please, everyone remember this comment.
You trying to scare me off of your wagon is not going to work. I got over my fear of mislynches a long time ago.
Also, while there was a lot of OMGUS in Deathspeaker, I didn't see anything like this, anything so... I'm not even sure of the word. Fearmongery, sortof?
I would love to know what underhanded things you are speaking about, specifically.
I don't think you should ever get over the fear of mislynching townies. That is EXACTLY how the town loses.
As far as the emulation goes, I can't help if adverbs are apparently a hot topic for Mafia games. But like I said. I love adverbs. Not surprised it has come up a few times. The rest of it is simply because I am townie. Any similarities are because of such.
Assuming Seppel isn't scum, I'm pretty sure the scum are Hunt/DYH/Antny.
I'm not scum reading Antny, though it's not a strong town read either. DYH, I can never read at all, so
I mostly dislike Antny's reaction to Cyan. It seems really off-base and like he has confidence that he shouldn't with his level of experience.There are a few other things that he's done that've rubbed me the wrong way, but they're difficult to articulate upon.
This is pretty vague. Can you quote me something I've said or show I've done that you've thought is scummy?
no
I'm not really interested in engaging you right now. It was intentionally vague, because, as I stated, the reasons I'm skeptical of you are "difficult to articulate upon". You're tough to pin down as scum, from what I've seen, so I'm unfortunately going to need more than what I have to convince everyone of you, more than likely. That said, I don't have anything particularly interesting to ask you at the moment, so I'll reserve grilling you for when I do.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Alternatively, if DYH or KCC flip scum, I'd scrutinize Hunger pretty strongly.
I was so damn confused by this at first. Then I realized what happened after it also happened to me while catching up. I saw the pink in the avatar and didn't even read the name and thought it was DYH.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I appreciate the sentiments Iso,
but I believe when I am scum I will be caught red handed, but react very differently. I am new to the game, but I am learning. If you look at my first game here on this site (Deathspeaker Mafia, it's over, I can do that! Woohoo!) you will clearly see Day 1 I get run up as well. Very similar situation where the more experienced players hate my language and want to string me up because I am such "obvscum." I really believe something similar is happening here. Instead of flipping out like I did there though, I am attempting to keep my cool and continue to go about what I would be doing anyway. Another little factoid about my play, I always am on the wagon. My vote is the most important tool I have, so I use it freely. You will find me always on the wagon. I think a bigger scum tell for me would be if I didn't help push through people's scumspects. Well, aside from myself. Never will I vote myself. Hope that helps clear some things up.
I second this motion! Don't even care that it's supposed to be an insult.
Weak because there was not a lot to back it up. That's all. Not a slight on your character or ability Sir Chris, just that the vote lacked a lot of back up substance.
The vote was to highlight the need to look at the votes on my wagon, as clearly scum will be jumping on pushing my mislynch.
How delusional are you? You sound so much like Iso it is scary at times. Well hunted? So when I flip town, what does this statement mean then? This is what I was talking about earlier. You are seriously digging yourself a hole to have to dig out of later when your MASTERFUL SCUM HUNTING actual kills a townie. Please, everyone remember this comment.
>criticizing an action in a very cautious way
>implying that leading a mislynch wagon automatically makes one scum
and this?
Can you show me what Hunt posted to make to switch like this?
I saw, does 53 and 164 answer it?
Speaking of 164, I'm surprised Cyan hasn't responded. Based on his defence and the way he's backed away from me, I'm lean scum on him, assuming Hunt flips scum.
Since that time however, cupcake has astutely pointed out hunt may have simply been pandering to ISO, and ISO made the best argument I have seen so far of how hunt could act like this as scum: that he is bad.
I think I might be back on the hunt train. I don't want to lock this in yet though.
Oh really?
I FOSed masterplum, quoting the post that we are referring to, before anyone else did so. THEN Killjoy also provided his thoughts, which were:
I then followed up to make my exact point more clear, with this post:
And then FINALLY after all of this, Hunt made his post. So tell me more about how Hunt was the only person to 'take issue' here.
Low hanging fruit means that you chose to attack the easiest person available of those that were going after masterplum. I'll just concede this point for now though, given that you seem like you just somehow missed every other anti-mp post, and you have recently chosen to vote Iso, and he is certainly not low hanging fruit.
Nope, you quoted a different post. Your FoS came before Plum posting 37 and Hunt's reply to it. Try again.
And that's also about post 18. Strike two.
I think I've probably said enough. No one else took issue with 37 because it wasn't scummy, which is what I said in the first place.
Low hanging fruit means that you chose to attack the easiest person available of those that were going after masterplum. I'll just concede this point for now though, given that you seem like you just somehow missed every other anti-mp post, and you have recently chosen to vote Iso, and he is certainly not low hanging fruit.[/quote]
Wow, your just wrong on so many things here. First I know what low hanging fruit means, I want to know why you think Hunt is low hanging fruit?
Second, It doesn't matter if other's took issue with Masterplum on other things. I called Hunt out for his weak reasoning for his vote on Masterplum. You know as well as I am that scum are happy to vote a suspicious player, but can't always find the correct reasons to do so, and therefore vote them for non-scummy stuff. On the other hand town are unlikely to engineer reasons to get on a wagon.
Also my Iso vote was clearly rvs, so that's a pretty weak reason to back away at this point.
And you are bandying semantics with your argument that you were calling Hunt to task about a different post than the one KJ and I were referring to. All of the posts in question were on the same subject.
I wouldn't say that it is at all this simple, there are layers of context involved. Ultimately, I would say that hunt's initial fos of masterplum was more likely to be a town post than a scum one.
But then I think mp is scum, so maybe I'm just looking at this through rose-colored glasses.
Right, for the third time of asking, can explain this please?
The reason I called out Hunt was the question Iso asked a couple of pages ago that started all this. I don't see where I said anything that you could have taken as me saying you or KillJoy had valid points against Masterplum, subsequently I don't see why I should have held off voting something I saw as scummy just because there was another wagon in play.
Because I didn't vote him for that, I voted him for his post. If a player makes a scummy post I'm obviously going to vote them over other people who just happen to be voting the same player.
It's not semantics. He found a non scummy post to be scummy. You clearly said other players found the same post scummy too. I asked who, and tried to fob me off with people finding different posts by the same player scummy.
It wasn't really a question, per se, since I think I said "Let's see if you can figure out why", but I thought the invitation was pretty obvious. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but you just admitted to intentionally avoiding it above, so yeah, it was obvious.
Furthermore, I then pointed out that not only did you ignore that, you ignored my vote on you entirely, and you went ahead and got on Masterplum's case about doing the very same thing. You've ignored that portion altogether here in your response. Why is that? Why did you think Masterplum owed you an explanation, but you couldn't be bothered to give me one?
Additional nitpick: "everyone else misinterpreted the rule" is not necessarily true.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I will try to post while I'm home on 3/25 and/or 3/26.
Thanks,
DYH
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
You told me that you know what low hanging fruit means, so, why do you keep belaboring this?
There were 3 'votes' on mp that all occurred at essentially the same time. You took great issue with one of them, without even mentioning the other 2(from what I can tell). There is an obvious implication here that you didn't have an issue with mine/KJ's posts on this subject, because if you did you would have...mentioned it? It doesn't seem like you have really talked about mp/his wagon at all, you just specifically went out of your way to attack one vote that you perceived as bad, without even remotely considering the context of that vote.
Like...exactly how much experience do you have at this game? When a scummy player votes another scummy player, you don't try and dissolve the first wagon, you keep this information in the back of your mind and process it later when the first wagon has resolved somehow. Hypothetically, let's say that masterplum got ran up and flipped scum. Would you really think that hunt was bussing here? Have you ever seen an instance of someone that busses their scumbuddy, but can only manage to come up with a (from your perspective) BAD reason to do so? This very, very rarely happens. It's not that hard to show someone is scum when you KNOW that they are. It would be one thing if you had expressed ANY kind of sentiment where you think that mp is town. But you haven't. The only thing you've said to/about mp is to call him out for changing his mind re: Hunt. And even then, it doesn't seem like you have at all stopped to consider the context/ramifications of ANY of this.
You have to take a step back here and think about your scum read and it's implications on other people, especially those involved with the person you are suspicious of.
The problem I have is that, for your viewpoint to be sincere, you *have* to think that mp is town. You just have to. But you have never taken any issue with anything anyone ELSE has said re: mp, and you have never actually given the impression that you think mp is town either. You're just railing at hunt in an immensely illogical way. And much of what you're doing is just attempting to bait him anyway.
Unrelatedly, I just wanted to mention something that has nothing to do with antny.
So you advocate early game lurker lynches, and vote people for bad reasons to get reactions. What are you going to tell us next, that when you are town power, you act like scum on purpose to 'see how many people will vote you'? Like..did you just read a book on 'things not to do in the game of mafia' and decide that you should start doing all of them? Jesus.
Why yes I have actually.
It worked
It was a huge disaster.
Have totally tried it though
I have heard the rumors of its greatness...
But also, like I mentioned, I do not like losing you as an ally. You are a huge asset to the town, at least in my eyes.
Ffs, you're just trying wind me up now aren't you.
Are you such a ******* idiot that really can't differentiate between votes and posts. Is that the problem?
Yes, that is correct.
Except I didn't do this, and I don't have any more energy to argue this with you when your just going to ignore what I say.
We are talking about a post on page 1. I'm not going to note down a post that early and wait until I know Plum's alignment before I act on it. Maybe you play mafia that way, but there's no way you've played on this forum as long as you have and not met players who actually take action when they see scummy play.
It was page 1. I wasn't planning on holding my vote until I got a flip.
So now I'm meant to have read the vote as a bus rather than an opportunistic vote on town...because????
[/quote]
Oh, you were setting a strawman. Nevermind, Hunt can wait.
Vote: Cyan
I feel I owe you all an apology. I have been reckless here. In developing a scumread this early on I failed to take into account the implications it could have on the rest of the game. I deeply apologise for distress caused by my carelessness.
By seriously this is drivel now. And actually getting boring. No one, at start of Day 1 goes through any of this sort of absurd thought process over a single vote. In your attempt to defend your buddy I've think just lost all perspective whatsoever.
I don't think Masterplum is scum. I'm not going to bet the game on it, but I don't think that's really the issue here.
The issue is that I don't think all three of the first three votes on a player come from scum. I believe I have seen 2/3 of a scumteam a vote player like this early but never all three. So no I don't think it's illogical that I'm not scumreading the entire early wagon on Plum. Even if DCIII turned around and confirmed him town this second, I still wouldn't think that.
Why?
Because town votes town. Sometimes for bad reasons. That's not the same as a scummy vote. If you find that insincere then tough *****. I'm not going round in circles on this.
Hunt or Cyan today, I don't mind which at this point.
This is a completely obvious scum implosion. There is literally no other explanation for it.
Oh the irony.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
The irony is you accuse me of OMGUS and then OMGUS.
Although it's funny you now say you weren't attacking me, which means my so called OMGUS is actually, what's it called, oh yeah, a vote?
...
Fine. I've moved onto better fish now anyway.
@Antny: You clearly perceived it as me attacking you, which is all that matters in this instance. It should be clear enough to everyone else that I was just trying to feel you out. Thanks for making it easy though.
What.
I am so completely flabbergasted by how arrogant this response is I don't know what to say.
Sorry Antny. Cyan has spoken. you are basically mod confirmed scum now.
Sometimes, obvious scum is just obvious.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Count 1.3
Killjoy (1): DYH
Iso (2): Seppel, Masterplum
Huntzilla (3): KittyCupCake, Sir Chris, Iso
Seppel (1): Megiddo
Sir Chris (1): Huntzilla
Cyan (1): Antny 223
Antny 223 (1): Cyan
Not Voting (2): Killjoy, Hunger
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prod Check: Hunger has been prodded.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
And like I said, I misread the statement, so I didn't interpret it as being directed at me.
Any other thoughts on the game? There's something specific I wanna see your opinion on. Hint: it correlates to this conversation we are having right now.
I'll probably get a more solid post in tomorrow night after work.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why?
After looking through that game, I see that rampant OMGUS isn't a tell at all for you. But, otherwise, the situation itself really isn't the same. In that game, you were being pushed for some iffy wording tells. -That's not what's going on here. Yes, some specific words were highlighted here (which is true for most cases, considering this is a text-based game), but only to point out exactly where you've been doing underhanded things, not as a tell in and of themselves.
Also, I'm thinking that you might be trying to emulate your play from that game a little too much (I thought it was odd when you pointed out "especially" as being an adverb in this game, when it was barely relevant to the conversation; but, after seeing that you used a similar counter-argument in Deathspeaker, where it actually made sense, it makes me think you're using that as a template to mimic your town play.)
You trying to scare me off of your wagon is not going to work. I got over my fear of mislynches a long time ago.
Also, while there was a lot of OMGUS in Deathspeaker, I didn't see anything like this, anything so... I'm not even sure of the word. Fearmongery, sortof?
I'm not scum reading Antny, though it's not a strong town read either. DYH, I can never read at all, so
Starting to read through the thread now.
Huntzilla is scum.
Some people are doing other stuff.
We are only 5 pages in with no immenent time limit. Why would you need a synopsis?
I mostly dislike Antny's reaction to Cyan. It seems really off-base and like he has confidence that he shouldn't with his level of experience. There are a few other things that he's done that've rubbed me the wrong way, but they're difficult to articulate upon.
As for DYH, mostly a gut reaction to his opening play and overall demeanor/paradigm shift with regards to Seppel being town.
I probably caught the scumteam on Day 1 again, so sheep wherever my vote is, I guess
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This is pretty vague. Can you quote me something I've said or show I've done that you've thought is scummy?
I think it's a fair point. Are you caught up yet Hunger? What are your thoughts?
I stated I was reading the thread when I asked for the synopsis so I think it was pretty clear I was going to doing that anyway. What's the harm in asking for a synopsis? And what's the harm in providing one? I think it's an interesting way to provoke a lot of different types of responses.
I don't think it that there's any harm in provided a synopsis, but it just seemed strange to ask for one when the game was so short. Certainly, if I replaced into a five page game, I would expect to have caught up before there was time for anyone to notice my request and write up a synopsis.
Anyway, I'll wait and see what you find in your catch up.
Asking for a synopsis seems to be an easy way of making yourself look more active then you actually are.
At best you are being lazy, at worst you are posting filler to make it look like you are trying when you are not.
Why have you been so inactive prior to this anyways?
How exactly do you think asking for a synopsis makes me look more active than I am? I think it does exactly the opposite, it makes me look lazy like you said is the best case.
For example, Iso and DYH's responses came off as towny to me, or null at worst. I would expect a scum to either try to paint me as scummy for it here, possibly to divert from a current scum wagon by shifting focus, or be over explanatory and try to sway a newcomer to their view. It looks a bit like you are doing the former, which has piqued my interest of you so I think it was a decent request on part that gave me some feedback.
I also find your inactivity question to be scum-minded. Inactivity is such an easy cop-out to call someone scummy and while you didn't explicitly state it as such here, the implication is certainly there.
But if you must know, I was v/la in another country for a wedding. Got back and my dog was nonstop puking for two days and we had to take him to the vet. I had a lot of work to catch up on. I'm in two other games that are further along and required my attention. And I had friends in town watching the opening round of the NCAA basketball tournament and drinking as is our yearly tradition. So to sum it up, lack of time in RL.
I would love to know what underhanded things you are speaking about, specifically.
I don't think you should ever get over the fear of mislynching townies. That is EXACTLY how the town loses.
As far as the emulation goes, I can't help if adverbs are apparently a hot topic for Mafia games. But like I said. I love adverbs. Not surprised it has come up a few times. The rest of it is simply because I am townie. Any similarities are because of such.
Wrong.
Wrong. You pretend like you caught them day 1, but you are wrong about at least one of your magic three...
unvote, vote hunt
I'm back from NY, but not going to make any substantive post until tomorrow.
no
I'm not really interested in engaging you right now. It was intentionally vague, because, as I stated, the reasons I'm skeptical of you are "difficult to articulate upon". You're tough to pin down as scum, from what I've seen, so I'm unfortunately going to need more than what I have to convince everyone of you, more than likely. That said, I don't have anything particularly interesting to ask you at the moment, so I'll reserve grilling you for when I do.
Tell me more about how DYH responded to your request.
If Hunger ever flips scum, this is the post to look at.
Compelling argument. Especially the part where I'm "pretending".
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player