KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Welp, I was just getting worried that I had lost all direction in this game when this came along. Hopefully combing through ZDS's posts will bring to light some juicy scum-on-scum interactions.
I think we're just waiting for everyone to post to just to make sure no one CCs? I wouldn't mind ending the Day shortly after ZDS posts, it's good to keep the action going.
Seppel - Atog - Dkings - Taredas - Scarbo - KillJoy - Vishamon - Zindabad is the pool I think holds the scum.
Seppel is jumping to conclusions too fast. Might be town if ZDS flips scum. Pretty sure he's scum if ZDS flips neutral.
Atog was an early scumread and I haven't seen anything from him that makes me rethink that. Probably town though if Scarbo / Taredas flip scum. Scum if they're town.
Dkings is probably scum if ZDS flips scum. I'll do interaction analysis toMorrow to prove it.
Taredas lacks the depth he usually has. His analyses are too shallow and sparse. Very likely scum.
Scarbo I'm not too sure of. This read will become more solid with more flips. ZDS soft-defended him though.
Killjoy is a scumread due to his predecessor. But Snurfy didn't post much, so a weak read.
Vishamon and Zindabad are null reads.
I said earlier in the day that Proph flipping Boros changed the dynamics of the game, and the reason why is because it established a much stronger likelihood there is a scum within our guild. Thinking there were only five Boros, it was fairly reasonable to speculate 5x town because Battalion needs at least four town acting together to function to its fullest extent. But with 6 Boros players, a scum in the mix was completely reasonable.
I'm going to go ahead and out the ability, seeing as how the scum are basically guaranteed to know how it works anyway. The fact that KamikazeArchon is claiming roleblocked points to this as well.
We're the protective role. Battalion works like this:
- If two Boros players target the same player with Battalion, we function as a bodyguard. If that player is targeted for a kill, one of the two Boros will die at random
- If three Boros players target the same player, that player is protected from one killing action
- If four+ Boros players target the same player, that player is protected from all night actions
KamikazeArchon is literally a Doc+. This is why we told you guys D1 he virtually had to be town.
KamikazeArchon claimed roleblock, and Hawk claimed targeting him. I also targeted Kamikaze last night. AE and ZDS claimed targeting Azrael, and at this point it is pretty much a lock that ZDS was lying about using Battalion on him. I'm betting ZDS was the scum who performed the NK, and he claimed his true target to play around potential tracker/watcher results.
There are two scenarios here:
1) Proph targeted Azrael with Battalion. Two Boros targeted Az (AE and Proph), and Az was targeted by two kills. Proph died via Battalion to stop one of them, and the other succeeded.
2) Proph did not target Azrael. In this case, ZDS successfully killed Azrael because there were not enough Boros targeting him to stop it, and someone else killed Proph.
Either way, Taredas has to be lying about Proph being the scum kill. The only way he could have been telling the truth was for AE, ZDS and Proph to all have targeted Azrael with Battalion, while two non-scum kills were aimed at him. KK's cop result on ZDS pretty much eliminates this as a possibility.
I could be wrong about this because I have yet to go back and check, but wasn't ZDS the player who repeatedly told zindabad to stop tunneling AE? That could have been coaching.
2) Proph did not target Azrael. In this case, ZDS successfully killed Azrael because there were not enough Boros targeting him to stop it, and someone else killed Proph.
What makes you believe ZDS performed a kill at all? He could have killed Proph and someone else could have killed Az, correct?
I'm betting ZDS was the scum who performed the NK, and he claimed his true target to play around potential tracker/watcher results.
Also, a scum Boros performing the NK makes logical sense. Scum is never going to use an ability that could result in their own death, so it's safe to assume ZDS didn't use Battalion.
And in the event that Proph targeted someone other than Azrael, ZDS cannot be telling the truth regardless. If he was, either he or AE would have ended up dead as a result of the ability.
can someone check dk's logic to confirm whether or not Taredas is scum?
.
It sounds right to me, however, I am not Boros. We should have a Boros member confirm this as true, that way they can confirm that as the way it would have to play out according to the ability.
I think dkings's analysis isn't 100% taredas is scum.
If proph didn't target az (and zds almost definitely didn't target az), then only ae targetted az. So someone could have shot az and scum could have shot proph in that situation.
food for thought, but somewhat wifomy: what could scum taredas be trying to gain by lying about who the scum targetted if dkings is right?
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Day Two Final Vote Count
Taredas (1): 7hawk77 ZeDorkSlipeur (9): Seppel, Rhand, Obzedat, dkingsland967, scarbo, killjoy, Sepiriel, 7hawk77, ZeDorkSlipeur, Huntzilla
ZeDorkSlipeur has been lynched. Here is his role PM:
You are Bane Alley Broker, a member of House Dimir
Abilities:
1. You may vote.
2. Once, if you are using Battalion, you may choose to have the player you targeted die instead of being protected. This will bypass any protections and be indistinguishable from the normal protection ability.
This is your cover identity:
You are Daring Skyjek, a member of the Boros Legion
It is now Night. Day two will begin in 72 hours or so. Don't be late with your Night actions—I won't acknowledge them if you are.
<I'm two days behind on flavor I'm going to write all of it tonight i promise>
---
Koolkoal has been killed. Here is his role PM:
You are Prime Speaker Zegana, the guildmaster of the Simic Combine
Abilities:
1. You may vote.
2. Unexpected Results: Each Night, you may target a player and choose one of the following:
1. Learn the guild of the targeted player. (This won't reveal if the targeted player is Dimir.)
2. Learn who the targeted player targets Tonight.
3. Learn who else targets the targeted player Tonight.
4. Learn the alignment of the targeted player.
Whenever a Simic player dies, this ability will lose a mode, starting from the bottom.
When you die, I will provide you with a list of other living Simic players, but not their alignments. Choose one of them. That player will gain Unexpected Results permanently.
dkingsland967 was also killed. Here is his role PM:
You are Gideon, Champion of Justice, a neutral hitman and a member of the Boros Legion
Abilities:
1. You may vote.
2. Oust: Each Night, you may target another player. You will attempt to kill that player. This kill can't be blocked. You cannot use Oust and Battalion on the same Night.
Win Condition: You win and immediately leave the game when all of the guild masters are dead. If you die or the game ends in a Town or Scum win before this happens, you lose.
Your cover identity is as follows. Please note that you actually are a member of the Boros guild, and thus you really have and can use all abilities associated with this role:
You are Skyknight Legionnaire, a member of the Boros Legion
It is now Day 3.
The deadline is Friday, May 8th, 11:59 PM EDT
With 14 alive, it's 8 to lynch
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Okay well as a first order of business, after that ZDS flip it's clear how AZ could have died with Proph being the mafia NK, although I'm not sure about the likelyhood of there being two trackers.
I targeted KK with Battalion and spent 3 charges. I was informed that this succeeded, but KK died anyway. Given dkings' flip, I can only guess that dkings killed KK and the mafia killed dkings.
It is hereby announced that a motion to disbar Taredas from Guild Service has been issued, grounds pertain to allegations surrounding the Oath of Servitude, that Taredas did in fact claim servitude under false pretense when affiliation to another guild was already approved, that Taredas hid this fact from the Council in an attempt to steal Council secrets and practices.
It is hereby decreed that Taredas has lost the favor of the Guild and is thereby no longer considered under protection of the Council, its members or any affiliated entity in the Guild alliance currently in favorable terms with the Council.
The venerable council of Obzedat is hereby announcing this day that Taredas has shown behavior unfit of the Orzhov Guild and is thereby disbarred.
It is also announced that the following individuals are currently suspect of being accomplice to Taredas: Scarbo, Seppel.
It is hereby announced that the Council wishes Taredas judgement to be carried post haste.
It is furthermore encouraged to the Confessors to strive for initiative in this time of turmoil, should the council representative come to harm and be revealed then the Council's worst fears have come to be true, a member of the Guild of Secret has supplanted us, and therefor any further communication and action should be considered suspect.
It is furthermore advised that any Guild Member that is not released from the bounds of servitude upon discovery of the representative to be consider suspect and accomplice to the Guild of Secrets.
This memorandum is duly noted and notarized in presence of the appointed representative of the Council and with the sanction of majority vote from the Council proper.
Duly Signed,
DCIII, Obzedat representative in charge of investigation.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Flavor wise the Orzhov Council is basically Ravnica's Lawyers (NOT LAWMAKERS thats the Azorius, stuck up jerks), Loan Sharks, Insurance Officers, etc, etc, etc.
Using Legal Speak is par for the course.
Am I interpreting that correctly, Sepriel, if I think that you're claiming a cop investigation on Tare?
No, your interpretation is not correct.
If that's the case, we should at least wait for everyone else to check in as well before insta-lynching him.
I dont mind the wait, in fact i am looking forward to hearing from the others, but my vote stays.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I'll try and skim the game again looking at ZDS interactions and with a special look at Tare when I get the time. I remember not liking Tare's claim yesterday.
Vacation starts in 2 days, so for sure then I will have at least more than 2 hours to sit at my computer.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It's somewhat odd that DK didn't go after KA before. Wasn't he the only claimed guild leader? I'm wondering if that means DK thought KA might be Mafia and was deliberately holding off.
Taredas may very well be the place to look today. I'm going to at least try and review in light of ZDS flip before voting anyone.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Also, I'm not sure how DK was supposed to win, given Obzedat, but there may be something there I don't know about.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
It is furthermore encouraged to the Confessors to strive for initiative in this time of turmoil, should the council representative come to harm and be revealed then the Council's worst fears have come to be true...
...
Duly Signed,
DCIII, Obzedat representative in charge of investigation.
So the bolded portion, we must be interpreting it in different ways.
It is furthermore encouraged to the Confessors to strive for initiative in this time of turmoil, should the council representative come to harm and be revealed then the Council's worst fears have come to be true...
...
Duly Signed,
DCIII, Obzedat representative in charge of investigation.
So the bolded portion, we must be interpreting it in different ways.
Well of course you are, because you are also completely avoiding everything else in order to cherry pick a completely irrelevant point in order to distract from the actual problem, you being a strong scum read, also completely disregarding the other two members implicated.
Like honestly you are just handwaving it away, like it is nothing.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Taredas (1): 7hawk77
ZeDorkSlipeur (8): KoolKoal, Seppel, Rhand, Obzedat, dkingsland967, scarbo, killjoy, Sepiriel
9 to lynch.
until zds fakeclaims and such.
I think we're just waiting for everyone to post to just to make sure no one CCs? I wouldn't mind ending the Day shortly after ZDS posts, it's good to keep the action going.
Also, ty Obzedat
Seppel is jumping to conclusions too fast. Might be town if ZDS flips scum. Pretty sure he's scum if ZDS flips neutral.
Atog was an early scumread and I haven't seen anything from him that makes me rethink that. Probably town though if Scarbo / Taredas flip scum. Scum if they're town.
Dkings is probably scum if ZDS flips scum. I'll do interaction analysis toMorrow to prove it.
Taredas lacks the depth he usually has. His analyses are too shallow and sparse. Very likely scum.
Scarbo I'm not too sure of. This read will become more solid with more flips. ZDS soft-defended him though.
Killjoy is a scumread due to his predecessor. But Snurfy didn't post much, so a weak read.
Vishamon and Zindabad are null reads.
Everyone else is town.
Here's the two relevant things I found:
zind unlikely scum with ZDS because of 651
scarbo unlikely scum with ZDS because of 691 and surrounding discussion
ZDS does a lot of soft defending of pretty much everyone still alive.
I said earlier in the day that Proph flipping Boros changed the dynamics of the game, and the reason why is because it established a much stronger likelihood there is a scum within our guild. Thinking there were only five Boros, it was fairly reasonable to speculate 5x town because Battalion needs at least four town acting together to function to its fullest extent. But with 6 Boros players, a scum in the mix was completely reasonable.
I'm going to go ahead and out the ability, seeing as how the scum are basically guaranteed to know how it works anyway. The fact that KamikazeArchon is claiming roleblocked points to this as well.
We're the protective role. Battalion works like this:
- If two Boros players target the same player with Battalion, we function as a bodyguard. If that player is targeted for a kill, one of the two Boros will die at random
- If three Boros players target the same player, that player is protected from one killing action
- If four+ Boros players target the same player, that player is protected from all night actions
KamikazeArchon is literally a Doc+. This is why we told you guys D1 he virtually had to be town.
KamikazeArchon claimed roleblock, and Hawk claimed targeting him. I also targeted Kamikaze last night. AE and ZDS claimed targeting Azrael, and at this point it is pretty much a lock that ZDS was lying about using Battalion on him. I'm betting ZDS was the scum who performed the NK, and he claimed his true target to play around potential tracker/watcher results.
There are two scenarios here:
1) Proph targeted Azrael with Battalion. Two Boros targeted Az (AE and Proph), and Az was targeted by two kills. Proph died via Battalion to stop one of them, and the other succeeded.
2) Proph did not target Azrael. In this case, ZDS successfully killed Azrael because there were not enough Boros targeting him to stop it, and someone else killed Proph.
Either way, Taredas has to be lying about Proph being the scum kill. The only way he could have been telling the truth was for AE, ZDS and Proph to all have targeted Azrael with Battalion, while two non-scum kills were aimed at him. KK's cop result on ZDS pretty much eliminates this as a possibility.
I could be wrong about this because I have yet to go back and check, but wasn't ZDS the player who repeatedly told zindabad to stop tunneling AE? That could have been coaching.
691 isn't that clearcut for Scarbo.
Dkings: so if a Boros has an ability, he has to chiose between that and Batallion?
Outdated Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
wut
Outdated Mafia Stats
This is definitely the lynch for today.
Outdated Mafia Stats
What makes you believe ZDS performed a kill at all? He could have killed Proph and someone else could have killed Az, correct?
Also, a scum Boros performing the NK makes logical sense. Scum is never going to use an ability that could result in their own death, so it's safe to assume ZDS didn't use Battalion.
And in the event that Proph targeted someone other than Azrael, ZDS cannot be telling the truth regardless. If he was, either he or AE would have ended up dead as a result of the ability.
Looks solid. Well done.
I'm in on a ZDS lynch once we have everything lined up. Scum flip on ZDS clears KK and dkings at minimum.
It sounds right to me, however, I am not Boros. We should have a Boros member confirm this as true, that way they can confirm that as the way it would have to play out according to the ability.
Unvote
Vote ZDS
Should boros coordinate at all?
Outdated Mafia Stats
Probably protecting dkings or kamikaze
Outdated Mafia Stats
If proph didn't target az (and zds almost definitely didn't target az), then only ae targetted az. So someone could have shot az and scum could have shot proph in that situation.
food for thought, but somewhat wifomy: what could scum taredas be trying to gain by lying about who the scum targetted if dkings is right?
Also, Hawk... don't protect me, that's a total waste.
Taredas (1): 7hawk77
ZeDorkSlipeur (9): Seppel, Rhand, Obzedat, dkingsland967, scarbo, killjoy, Sepiriel, 7hawk77, ZeDorkSlipeur, Huntzilla
ZeDorkSlipeur has been lynched. Here is his role PM:
It is now Night. Day two will begin in 72 hours or so. Don't be late with your Night actions—I won't acknowledge them if you are.
it's night please no posting
---
Koolkoal has been killed. Here is his role PM:
dkingsland967 was also killed. Here is his role PM:
It is now Day 3.
The deadline is Friday, May 8th, 11:59 PM EDT
With 14 alive, it's 8 to lynch
It is hereby announced that a motion to disbar Taredas from Guild Service has been issued, grounds pertain to allegations surrounding the Oath of Servitude, that Taredas did in fact claim servitude under false pretense when affiliation to another guild was already approved, that Taredas hid this fact from the Council in an attempt to steal Council secrets and practices.
It is hereby decreed that Taredas has lost the favor of the Guild and is thereby no longer considered under protection of the Council, its members or any affiliated entity in the Guild alliance currently in favorable terms with the Council.
/Vote Taredas
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Night Memorandum:
To all Confessors:
The venerable council of Obzedat is hereby announcing this day that Taredas has shown behavior unfit of the Orzhov Guild and is thereby disbarred.
It is also announced that the following individuals are currently suspect of being accomplice to Taredas: Scarbo, Seppel.
It is hereby announced that the Council wishes Taredas judgement to be carried post haste.
It is furthermore encouraged to the Confessors to strive for initiative in this time of turmoil, should the council representative come to harm and be revealed then the Council's worst fears have come to be true, a member of the Guild of Secret has supplanted us, and therefor any further communication and action should be considered suspect.
It is furthermore advised that any Guild Member that is not released from the bounds of servitude upon discovery of the representative to be consider suspect and accomplice to the Guild of Secrets.
This memorandum is duly noted and notarized in presence of the appointed representative of the Council and with the sanction of majority vote from the Council proper.
Duly Signed,
DCIII, Obzedat representative in charge of investigation.
Am I interpreting that correctly, Sepriel, if I think that you're claiming a cop investigation on Tare?
If that's the case, we should at least wait for everyone else to check in as well before insta-lynching him.
Using Legal Speak is par for the course.
No, your interpretation is not correct.
I dont mind the wait, in fact i am looking forward to hearing from the others, but my vote stays.
I'll try and skim the game again looking at ZDS interactions and with a special look at Tare when I get the time. I remember not liking Tare's claim yesterday.
Vacation starts in 2 days, so for sure then I will have at least more than 2 hours to sit at my computer.
I agree with them. Seppel, Taredas and Scarbo are exactly who I want to lynch.
vote Taredas
No.
It's somewhat odd that DK didn't go after KA before. Wasn't he the only claimed guild leader? I'm wondering if that means DK thought KA might be Mafia and was deliberately holding off.
Taredas may very well be the place to look today. I'm going to at least try and review in light of ZDS flip before voting anyone.
...
Duly Signed,
DCIII, Obzedat representative in charge of investigation.
So the bolded portion, we must be interpreting it in different ways.
It is not a cop result, so much as a proclamation.
It is my understanding that yes.
Well of course you are, because you are also completely avoiding everything else in order to cherry pick a completely irrelevant point in order to distract from the actual problem, you being a strong scum read, also completely disregarding the other two members implicated.
Like honestly you are just handwaving it away, like it is nothing.