Cythare's posts have not been great, but (again) your extreme overconfidence does not inspire me, Az. And we will so get more info from an Atog flip than a Cythare lynch (assuming Cy is actually Orzhov). I don't see how you say we won't with a straight face.
This days has been my worst mafia nightmare. 1000+ posts, and still scrambling at the end. Impossible to re-read. If someone with a gun wants to put me out of my misery tonight I won't object.
What has Atog done since his gambit to deserve lynching? What has Atog done aside from his gambit to deserve lynching?
It's a single interaction from the first 200 posts of the game. In the remaining 800 posts, nothing else he's done has been problematic. How is that supposed to be a good lynch?
I can understand where you're coming from on the flipping issue. I thought flips were important for the first eight years that I played. I'd try to catch one scum per day, and then see if I was right or not, and regroup. But at some point a couple of years ago, it hit me as a bit of a "duh" moment that I could very easily have a bigger impact on the game by front-loading most of my analysis into day one, before the scum had a chance to take me out. Instead of catching one scum and seeing the flip, try to catch them all, at the start of the game. And that's when some pretty surprising things started happening with my town game. I didn't magically know how to catch scum any better than I always did, but because I simply had a "duh" moment that pushed me to actually bring what I knew to bear on more than one person at a time, it helped me catch a lot more scum a lot faster. Basically, I just realized that I could work harder on day one and actually get good results out of it. And so when that started working pretty ok, I figured out that flips weren't nearly as important as I used to think they were.
So no. I don't think that getting a flip out of Atog is going to do much to help us win this game. I think it's just tradition to wait and see the flip. But it's not a helpful tradition. We've grossly overestimated the value of flips.
Honestly if toMorrow we dont have something substantial to go on im going to push for Atog so hard, specially because he seems so convinced that Immortal Servitude can be broken as early as possibly toMorrow
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Not bothering rereading, but here's my reads for posterity. When I'm revealed as town later in the game, feel free to come back and read, but since I've been pretty low content, you'll probably have more to go on by then.
Town:
Prophylaxis - This is definitely town!Prophylaxis.
Axelrod - He hasn't been as high content as I've seen before, but I haven't seen any flags and have gotten specific town vibes from 113.
Rhand - See: 75, 164, 205. Those all read very townie to me.
scarbo -
KamikazeArchon - Beyond the mechanical piece, AI's early play didn't read like his disinterested scum game, it read like a disinterested version of his town game. KA's put forth some good work and is actively contributing in a townie fashion.
dkingsland967 - Has put forth a decent amount of original thoughts and put himself forward in ways I wouldn't expect from scum. 204 was a minor concern, but otherwise seems town.
Leaning Town:
Sir Karn - Karn is low-content as both alignments, so if that's anyone's main reason for wanting to lynch him, don't. 117 and 131 are town!Karn posts.
Sepiriel - Had as scum early on, but has gotten to the point where I can see the town motivation behind her posts.
Huntzilla - I had hans as a town read early on because he tends to play it much safer as scum (as Proph noted in #48). Huntzilla hasn't changed my read of the slot.
Taredas - The amount of content plus the actual content in his few posts makes me thinks he's probably town. I saw no concerning posts.
Vishamon - I really disliked #129, but he looks townie later. Others have already pointed out reasons here.
Null:
Archmage Eternal - Not enough for me to garner a read. I doubt he's scum with zindabad, but if one flips town, the other could still be town.
KoolKoal - I never took the time to review him.
ZDS - Was leaning scum initially. Have liked his recent stuff, but don't have the time to fully review by deadline. Is probably town, though.
killjoy - I had no read on snurfy, and killjoy hasn't changed this.
Leaning Scum:
zindabad - Weaker scum read - a lot of this read is based on the toxicity in his language, but that could be null. If AE is scum, he's not.
7hawk77 - I haven't liked the low content here, and thought I had specific thoughts but didn't write them down.
Scum:
Azrael - As admitted, a lot of this is gut. There aren't really any specific tells, but it's been rubbing me enough since I went back that I can't see him any other way.
Atogaholic - I don't buy the tonal shift. His later stuff hasn't been great.
2) I noted multiple times that I don't want to lynch him between here, here, and here. I didn't specifically say "AI's town", but I thought a clear stance on the wagon would indicate it.
3) Whoops. It's mostly for entrenching on his stances in a way that doesn't seem to have any ulterior motives. He has a lot of small posts, but I've liked the questions he's asked.
4) 117: His attack on you seems sincere (for his playstyle). 131: I liked his follow-up. Note that at this time, I also was scumreading you and this didn't read like bussing at all.
5) Because you're trending upwards. I didn't have the opportunity to fully review, but I previously disliked 51, 126, and 237 from you enough that I wasn't confident before a reread that I'm not going to do at this point.
6) Lazy, and possibly also coincidence. You can figure it out later if I'm the lynch today.
Well, this might not need to be said, but I get surprised by things I think are obvious that others don't. If someone has a way to beat the Immortal Servitude thing, this would be a peachy time to do it.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If anyone has any quick questions for me that don't involve rereading the entire thread, I'd be happy to share my thoughts. I should be around for most of the day.
I got a message from Obzedat during the night. He claimed his identity. He was giving me some of his thoughts re: other players. In particular, he believed that both Taredas and Azaral were scum. So, clearly Obzedat is not infallible. He may not be Town either and is playing some kind of shell game, but it would be a little weird to send me a message insisting that Az was scum and urging us to lynch him today when they were killing him this night. Now, maybe the Mafia didn't kill Az at all and it was 3rd party, but still.
I am against lynching Obzedat. Another thing he said was that he could help with determining the alignment of Orzhov people - but apparently not right away.
His reasoning re: Taredas being scum (at least, all the reasoning he was able to give given the restricted number of words I believe he's allowed to use in a message) was that despite Taredas being Orzhov he knew the Boros ability. Finally, he said he thought that ZDS was probably scum also.
That's about it.
If anyone who is Town actually killed Az, you need to fess up immediately.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I got roleblocked. I had spent two charges, which got wasted. I regained two charges from Az and Proph's flips.
I reviewed the thread overnight and am going to review it again in light of Az's flip.
One day someone is going to realize claiming roleblocked is sub-par. If you make up a claim you have a good shot and catching scum slipping because they'll be the only ones to know you were roleblocked.
One day someone is going to realize claiming roleblocked is sub-par. If you make up a claim you have a good shot and catching scum slipping because they'll be the only ones to know you were roleblocked.
This response is odd, in that it assumes I'm town. It also completely ignores the whole debate at the end of the last Day and the resulting decision to test my ability.
I'm working on that. Do you have anything specific that you're talking about?
Do you mean the fact that you already had a town read on me? I considered that, but there's still a difference between having a town read and assuming I'm town.
I'm working on that. Do you have anything specific that you're talking about?
Do you mean the fact that you already had a town read on me? I considered that, but there's still a difference between having a town read and assuming I'm town.
I'm convinced Atog is scum and can't fathom a universe in which both of you are.
That's fair, and yesterday I would have agreed with you entirely - but with the Az flip, and the knowledge that he's a strong analyst, I'm no longer certain in the Atog read.
EBWODP: looks like I need to start previewing my posts. To be clear, the first part of the post is the part that gives me gut feels. The rest of the post, I don't like for reasons I can be slightly more articulate about; "I would be happy with a Taredas lynch" does not sound like it should be the content of a player's first post Day 2, especially when directed at a player who was under no pressure at the end of the previous day. Listing the claimed Boros is anti-town because info. I've seen bemoaning NK targets cited as a scum tell before, I guess because "ooh look at me I'm sad about something bad happening to the town."
What has Atog done since his gambit to deserve lynching? What has Atog done aside from his gambit to deserve lynching?
It's a single interaction from the first 200 posts of the game. In the remaining 800 posts, nothing else he's done has been problematic. How is that supposed to be a good lynch?
I can understand where you're coming from on the flipping issue. I thought flips were important for the first eight years that I played. I'd try to catch one scum per day, and then see if I was right or not, and regroup. But at some point a couple of years ago, it hit me as a bit of a "duh" moment that I could very easily have a bigger impact on the game by front-loading most of my analysis into day one, before the scum had a chance to take me out. Instead of catching one scum and seeing the flip, try to catch them all, at the start of the game. And that's when some pretty surprising things started happening with my town game. I didn't magically know how to catch scum any better than I always did, but because I simply had a "duh" moment that pushed me to actually bring what I knew to bear on more than one person at a time, it helped me catch a lot more scum a lot faster. Basically, I just realized that I could work harder on day one and actually get good results out of it. And so when that started working pretty ok, I figured out that flips weren't nearly as important as I used to think they were.
So no. I don't think that getting a flip out of Atog is going to do much to help us win this game. I think it's just tradition to wait and see the flip. But it's not a helpful tradition. We've grossly overestimated the value of flips.
Someone please unvote me, I'm at L-1 and I feel so paranoid that Karn's gonna come in and hammer. We still have all of today.
I am working on my Posterity Reads as we speak.
Vote Cythare
Honestly if toMorrow we dont have something substantial to go on im going to push for Atog so hard, specially because he seems so convinced that Immortal Servitude can be broken as early as possibly toMorrow
That's eight votes on Cythare, plus Atog is Gruul IIRC? If so, that's 9 for Cythare, and 9 for Atog.
Would like to hear Togs's reads before we lynch Cythare, though.
Atogaholic 9: Cythare, Axelrod, Scarbo, KamikazeArchon, Rhand, dkingsland967, Obzedat, 7Hawk77, Archmage Eternal
KamikazeArchon (3): KoolKoal, Taredas, Zindabad
Prophylaxis (1): Sir Karn
Cythare (9): Prophylaxis, Azrael, ZeDorkSlipeur, Huntzilla, Killjoy, Atogaholic, Sepiriel
Deadline soon! 11 to lynch! Fighting!
Town:
Prophylaxis - This is definitely town!Prophylaxis.
Axelrod - He hasn't been as high content as I've seen before, but I haven't seen any flags and have gotten specific town vibes from 113.
Rhand - See: 75, 164, 205. Those all read very townie to me.
scarbo -
KamikazeArchon - Beyond the mechanical piece, AI's early play didn't read like his disinterested scum game, it read like a disinterested version of his town game. KA's put forth some good work and is actively contributing in a townie fashion.
dkingsland967 - Has put forth a decent amount of original thoughts and put himself forward in ways I wouldn't expect from scum. 204 was a minor concern, but otherwise seems town.
Leaning Town:
Sir Karn - Karn is low-content as both alignments, so if that's anyone's main reason for wanting to lynch him, don't. 117 and 131 are town!Karn posts.
Sepiriel - Had as scum early on, but has gotten to the point where I can see the town motivation behind her posts.
Huntzilla - I had hans as a town read early on because he tends to play it much safer as scum (as Proph noted in #48). Huntzilla hasn't changed my read of the slot.
Taredas - The amount of content plus the actual content in his few posts makes me thinks he's probably town. I saw no concerning posts.
Vishamon - I really disliked #129, but he looks townie later. Others have already pointed out reasons here.
Null:
Archmage Eternal - Not enough for me to garner a read. I doubt he's scum with zindabad, but if one flips town, the other could still be town.
KoolKoal - I never took the time to review him.
ZDS - Was leaning scum initially. Have liked his recent stuff, but don't have the time to fully review by deadline. Is probably town, though.
killjoy - I had no read on snurfy, and killjoy hasn't changed this.
Leaning Scum:
zindabad - Weaker scum read - a lot of this read is based on the toxicity in his language, but that could be null. If AE is scum, he's not.
7hawk77 - I haven't liked the low content here, and thought I had specific thoughts but didn't write them down.
Scum:
Azrael - As admitted, a lot of this is gut. There aren't really any specific tells, but it's been rubbing me enough since I went back that I can't see him any other way.
Atogaholic - I don't buy the tonal shift. His later stuff hasn't been great.
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2) I noted multiple times that I don't want to lynch him between here, here, and here. I didn't specifically say "AI's town", but I thought a clear stance on the wagon would indicate it.
3) Whoops. It's mostly for entrenching on his stances in a way that doesn't seem to have any ulterior motives. He has a lot of small posts, but I've liked the questions he's asked.
4) 117: His attack on you seems sincere (for his playstyle). 131: I liked his follow-up. Note that at this time, I also was scumreading you and this didn't read like bussing at all.
5) Because you're trending upwards. I didn't have the opportunity to fully review, but I previously disliked 51, 126, and 237 from you enough that I wasn't confident before a reread that I'm not going to do at this point.
6) Lazy, and possibly also coincidence. You can figure it out later if I'm the lynch today.
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Vote: Cythare
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Unvote; vote Cythare.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
shock.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
2) Ah. I didn't think about it that way, but that makes sense. Guess there's always next time.
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It is now twilight. Scene will go up when i am at my computer (some number of hours).
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Draft my cube! (630 cards)
beside the point
Your townies are Az, Axelrod, Hawk, Huntzilla, Proph, Rhand, Sepiriel, ZDS.
Weaker townies are Scarbo, Zindabad, Dkings, Atog, and Vish.
Margin for Error is: Koolkoal, Asian.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Atogaholic 9: Cythare, Axelrod, Scarbo, KamikazeArchon, Rhand, dkingsland967, Obzedat, 7Hawk77, Archmage Eternal
KamikazeArchon (1): Taredas
Prophylaxis (1): Sir Karn
Cythare (11): Prophylaxis, Azrael, ZeDorkSlipeur, Huntzilla, Killjoy, Atogaholic, Sepiriel, Zindabad
---
(Note: There will be no end-of-Day flavor this game. Flavor scenes will accompany the start of Day.)
Cythare has been lynched. He was Syndic of Tithes, a member of the Orzhov Syndicate
It is now Night. Day two will begin in 72 hours or so. Don't be late with your Night actions—I won't acknowledge them if you are.
It is still Night. There will be no time extension for the Night period granted.
---
Prophylaxis was killed. He was Bomber Corps, a member of the Boros Legion
Azrael was also killed. He was Disciple of the Old Ways, a member of the Gruul Clans
It is now Day 2.
The deadline is Monday, April 27th, 11:59 PM EDT
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch
I am against lynching Obzedat. Another thing he said was that he could help with determining the alignment of Orzhov people - but apparently not right away.
His reasoning re: Taredas being scum (at least, all the reasoning he was able to give given the restricted number of words I believe he's allowed to use in a message) was that despite Taredas being Orzhov he knew the Boros ability. Finally, he said he thought that ZDS was probably scum also.
That's about it.
If anyone who is Town actually killed Az, you need to fess up immediately.
Do you have any reason keeping it alive will help us Rhand?
I reviewed the thread overnight and am going to review it again in light of Az's flip.
I will also be V/LA this Friday-Sunday.
So who's Boros again, and why is Az dead? I targeted him.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
vote Scarbo
Do you mean the fact that you already had a town read on me? I considered that, but there's still a difference between having a town read and assuming I'm town.
This should be our mother humping bible for the rest of the game.
I believe they killed Az to silence him, and to weaken the Gruul mechanic.
I would be happy with a Taredas lynch at this point.
Vote Taredas
@AE
Boros are:
ZeDorkSlipeur
Kamikaze Archon (Asian Invasion)- Aurelia, the Warleader
Dkingsland967
Archmage Eternal (you)
Hawk
And Proph... RIP
I'm convinced Atog is scum and can't fathom a universe in which both of you are.
This post doesn't sit right with me.
I strongly dislike this post. I'm not sure how to explain it, but it gives me all types of icky vibes.
then explain why you ask me to explain something I never said instead of answering my question?
Nothing happened to me. Yay!
Anyways Vish jumping on Huntz is very subdued, he outright complains about the post but doesnt follow it up at all or casts a vote/