Really? Even though almost everyone else has Rhand as strongly town?
No idea how many people actually have him as "strongly town." I admit the reason I listed him is entirely because of his interactions with 2 people who I have scumreads on, although now I think he might just be town who's too easily swayed.
Actually I looked back, and the bolded is a lie. He clearly wrote that he disliked a statement of mine directed to him that had nothing to do with Proph and whoever else he is talking about (Taredas?) when he listed me as part of the scumteam.
Hi, I'm back from a gaming convention. Lots of late nights and waking up at 2:30 am today to get on the plane home means I can't even comprehend right now.
Back either later tonight, assuming I fit a decent nap in, or tomorrow.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Well, if hans can vote for the Orzhov Ghost Council, perhaps I can vote for the Guild Leader of the Dimir? Given that we know that the Dimir have infiltrated our guilds, I don't see why not to try this.
Obv-Scum Who Hates Being Scum and Needs Put out of his Misery
Asianinvasion
This is true, he hates being scum. If so, that 1st post by Zindabad could have been a weak buss attempt to fall back on. But Azrael, why the ? after Vis' weak town
So, counting pseudo votes and the ghost council vote, but not any Gruul mechanic extra votes, Atog is at l-2.
I am reluctant to proceed to a lynch before KK has had a chance to catch up and give his opinions. I would also like to see some posts from Zindabad.
A bit of a stretch here, but it would not surprise me if Dkings was scum and just told us that all people on the Sepi wagon were town when it was at 5 votes. And that Proph/Az/Taredas are town too. And Sepi.
(Reason: town doesn't go and ask for analysis of small, early wagons. But scum loves that, especially when there's no scum on the wagon)
And in the process he avoids giving his own read on Sepi.
I buy it. For a catchup post that was astonishingly scummy.
I like Rhand so far, even though I think he's tunneling on Sepiral too much. You've got to try and imagine how you'd feel if a significant wagon built up on you over your very first RVS post. And then not just keep it to how you personally would feel but imagine how someone else might. Like I said before, I can see where Sep. is coming from on that.
Proph: given that you have apparently admitted to a deliberate shift in playstyle from last game to this (without saying you were going to do so in the thread) what makes my vote on you so poor? Like, if one game you make it a point to mention how you like to look for odd RVS stuff to jump on and attack - which is more or less exactly what you said last game - and then you don't do that here, instead doing what appears to be the opposite, with no explanation, wouldn't that make for a reasonable case of raised eyebrows? And then, when specifically asked about it, and then you say "well, I did notice the thing, but I'm deliberately doing it different this game because it didn't work out so well last time" - again, wouldn't that at least make for a reasonable suspicion?
I don't even care so much if you ignore the vote - but you went out of your way to characterize it as "pretty poor" so, what would you say makes it so?
I have a tendency to dislike the short, hit and run posters. Snurfy maybe being the worst atm. The "you guys post too much" cry of dismay always seems to ring false to me. I am getting the bad vibes from AI now too.
I'll agree with this for the most part, except keep in mind I usually don't have time to do a big honking analysis. That's why a lot of my posts are just a blurb expressing how I feel at the moment.
Something just dawned on me. We're playing right into the cards of scum with all the guild claims.
@All the non-Gruul that haven't claimed yet: please don't do it.
Especially the remaining Orzhov need to keep silent.
It is good that the abilities are public, but not good that the players having them are outed too.
We don't really need to worry about the guild abilities outing- Gruul was necessary to avoid quicklynches, and its to the Boros' advantage to claim. However, I think that the Orzhov ability should have only been outed under duress if at all, and the members of the Simic should use their better judgement before outing. (The fact it hasn't been outed yet probably means that it shouldn't be). I agree we have to be careful about laying all of this out in the open.
Quote from Rhand »
Okay, I'm probably completely wrong about Sepi then. Thx Az.
Also, the other question was also me. I found it weird that you put Sepi there and not just nowhere like all other nullreads.
I'll take another look at Vishamon. What's your take on Atog?
Don't like this at all. Pretty much just /barns everything Az has to say.
Quote from 7hawk77 »
@Tar
Sep was self aware and his vocabulary on how he says things felt off. His actions seem desperate and not helpful.
For these reasons I think he is scum.
The people that were on his wagon I think are town for gut/meta reasons.
Having people on his wagon that are town doesn't make him scum, his behavior does. If I felt uneasy about some people on his wagon it would be setting off alarms. This was not the case.
That being said, lynching him without getting a reveal day 1 is a waste.
So this boils down to "Sep was selfaware" which is pretty much /barning Rhand's case, and then calls his wagon (which wasn't much of a wagon at that point) town. This is a little odd- IGMEOY.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Quote from Togs »
Az made a nice catch in 190. I want to lynch Proph, Taredas, or AI toDay
I love how opportunistic this is. No mention about the Vish thing either.
More votes on Togs, please.
/barn this. I could get behind the Togs wagon. Since I'm Gruul and he's dangerously close to lynch, I'll drop a FoS:Atog for now, but I definitely support lynching him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A mirror, a shield, a promise, a great distance, and a kind word-- five ways to avoid harm.
Conflicted on Vish. On one hand, he does things that are pretty unexpected and after a couple of times replaying in my head, might make me declare that he's weakly town:
Quote from Vish »
There is no wagon, and he was hoping we'd forget he said anything?
Also
unvote
vote Clan Dimir
..but then he posts gems such as this one:
Quote from Vish »
Then why haven't you moved your vote?
Now that I think about it, though, so much of my read on Vish is dependent on my read of Togs. I guess I'll want to start there and not put the cart before the horse.
--
@snurfy8:
1. If you "don't like [Rhand's post] at all" then why are you voting with him on Togs?
Still dead tired since I had to wake up early for school and need to reread the more massive posts later, but here's some vague stances at least:
Scum: AI and Togs. Both of them know Vish well enough that they know he's a super easy lynch/mislynch, yet they both find him scummy for his normal level of play.
People I find scummy, but I always find them scummy all the time, so for now: Karn and hawk
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Scum: AI and Togs. Both of them know Vish well enough that they know he's a super easy lynch/mislynch, yet they both find him scummy for his normal level of play.
People I find scummy, but I always find them scummy all the time, so for now: Karn and hawk
I do? I can't think of a single game (other than a CF game) I've played with him.
I'm reading Atog in isolation trying to see what the fuss is about. The posts in question are #157 and #170. I don't think there's much else.
#157 has some odd 1-off remarks that don't seem to have a lot of purpose behind them. Remarking to Rhand "I don't like how you backed off Proph" with nothing further. That's a little strange. Telling Sepiral to "work on" his posts. That's kind of purposeless. I don't understand the remark to Az. I'm assuming joke? On the other hand, I'm less bothered with him asking Proph to look at Vishamon and tell him what he sees than some people seem to be. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask someone you suspect might be scum for their opinion on another player. This one is kind of a mixed bag.
#170 is more interesting. If he's Town, it's kind of a huge over-reaction to two quick votes (Taredas + Rhand). Rhand is correct when he says Atog's remark to Sepiral in 157 wasn't scum-hunting. So when Atog comes back and claims that he was trying to "dig into" Sep. with that remark, it's kind of ridiculous. And he's doing it in a way that's also a back-handed attack on Rhand. There's irony in that he criticizes Taredas for doing the "asking useless questions" scumtell after just doing almost the same thing himself. Then he votes Taredas, which can't be anything other than OMGUS. Proph is the one he's been focused on. His "suspicion" of Rhand and Taredas seems to spin almost entirely off his suspicion of Proph. But he never voted Proph. He does vote Taredas. Who voted for him first. This is also a bit of a reversal of his stance on Gruul voting (before he was all cautious about voting due to the mechanic, which was why he supposedly never voted Proph. Now he thinks it's okay if he's "careful").
So, I would say some suspicion is warranted here. I have no idea what the votecount is. I think enough people have weighed in even without voting though. I'm ready to hear a claim.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Incidentally, I should say I'm not a big fan of Taredas's first post either. I was fairly put of with the big "DON'T LYNCH ORZHOV BECAUSE WE NEED INFO" warning at the beginning. Like, yes, it's less than ideal to lynch someone D1 who won't have their alignment revealed, but this looks like an over-reaction. If I thought an Orzhov person was acting the scummiest, I would totally advocate lynching them and shrug my shoulders about the no reveal part. It was all just a bit dramatic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Hey guys, now I'm actually back. Now that I've actually read everything, I'm fine with a lynch in {AsianInvasion, Atogaholic, ZeDorkSlipeur, zindabad}. Strong town reads on {Axelrod, Azrael, Porps, Rhand, Sir Karn}.
For now, I'll leave my vote where it is, and will provide additional content after I do some RL work or when I see more to respond to.
Incidentally, I should say I'm not a big fan of Taredas's first post either. I was fairly put of with the big "DON'T LYNCH ORZHOV BECAUSE WE NEED INFO" warning at the beginning. Like, yes, it's less than ideal to lynch someone D1 who won't have their alignment revealed, but this looks like an over-reaction. If I thought an Orzhov person was acting the scummiest, I would totally advocate lynching them and shrug my shoulders about the no reveal part. It was all just a bit dramatic.
I disagree with this. In order to gain momentum for later days, it's important to have something to pull interactions from.
Can we not lynch atog until I have a chance to catch up? I like not getting 1000 posts into day 1 before a lynch, but at least 3 others are pinging my scumdar- hans, zindabad, and hawk.
Under threat of dying a painful death, please explain what you see in Az's "catch," as you so put it, and why it suddenly makes you want to lynch me.
The vote + the phrase "scum sensing blood in the water" is what did it. If Vish really was, he'd be voting for me instead.
Quote from KK »
Scum: AI and Togs. Both of them know Vish well enough that they know he's a super easy lynch/mislynch, yet they both find him scummy for his normal level of play.
on the AI part. Note that I don't have a scum read on Vish, nor have I had one this game.
Quote from Axelrod »
Incidentally, I should say I'm not a big fan of Taredas's first post either. I was fairly put of with the big "DON'T LYNCH ORZHOV BECAUSE WE NEED INFO" warning at the beginning. Like, yes, it's less than ideal to lynch someone D1 who won't have their alignment revealed, but this looks like an over-reaction. If I thought an Orzhov person was acting the scummiest, I would totally advocate lynching them and shrug my shoulders about the no reveal part. It was all just a bit dramatic.
It's definitely the scummiest post of this game so far, for that in addition to other Reasons
Quote from ZDS »
Atogaholic
Please tell us more about the two statements at the end of 208.
Quote from 208 »
Lets just say there's 2 people right now who are justified in suspecting people just for voting them, and I'm one of them
Az made a nice catch in #190. I want to lynch Proph, Taredas, or AI toDay
Simple, I'm what you what call "lynch bait." I have relatively low mafia experience, I'm a stranger to the majority of people in this game, I haven't been lurking, and I'm town. Basically I'm the perfect target for scum to try to lynch today. In case you haven't already figured it out, the other person who I think fulfills these qualities is Vish. That's why I've been hunting for scum primarily in the people who've been voting for him and myself.
Say, do you think you can you post 5-10 more times really fast so I have enough grist to make a really killer PBPA on you? Thanks in advance.
If you're honestly curious, which there's no way that you are, I'm generally trying to be careful with my votes, and Vish was the exception to that rule for no better reason than that I forgot my own suggested guidelines.
Simple, I'm what you what call "lynch bait." I have relatively low mafia experience, I'm a stranger to the majority of people in this game, I haven't been lurking, and I'm town. Basically I'm the perfect target for scum to try to lynch today. In case you haven't already figured it out, the other person who I think fulfills these qualities is Vish. That's why I've been hunting for scum primarily in the people who've been voting for him and myself.
What even. Your inferiority complex is so strong it almost makes you look arrogant. The mind boggles.
ZDS- why was there a reaction you expected from Sep? (106)
Proph- Zind wasn't getting the pressure I felt he deserved.
Atog-
1. Do you believe three scum (Taredas, Rhand, and Proph) would spearhead your lynch?
2. If you and Vish are 'lynch bait' (253), why do you think you're more under attack than Vish?
3. If you've never had a scum read on Vish this game (253), what made you think his wagon looked 'promising' (157)?
Scarbo, why did you trust what snurfy said about not wanting to vote atog because he's close to lynch range (which was false, not even half way there)? You just said you weren't caught up so why would you believe someone who has barely posted?
There is nothing trust worthy that snurfy has done so far in this game so the fact that you automatically took what he said as word of God is suspect.
@Everyone else: if snurfy/scarbo flips scum remember this interaction. I think scarbos tying makes him more likely scum. If snurfy is town, scarbo would know that and could trust what he says, if both are scum, he would be innately backing his buddy. I see no town motivator in that action.
What even. Your inferiority complex is so strong it almost makes you look arrogant. The mind boggles.
I admit I've been more arrogant than usual this game, but I can assure you I don't have an inferiority complex. I don't see myself as a subpar player, but I'm sure you and your buddies see me as easy prey. (It's okay, I'm not offended)
Atog-
1. Do you believe three scum (Taredas, Rhand, and Proph) would spearhead your lynch?
2. If you and Vish are 'lynch bait' (253), why do you think you're more under attack than Vish?
3. If you've never had a scum read on Vish this game (253), what made you think his wagon looked 'promising' (157)?
Ugh, missed this because of preview
1. Eh I don't think Rhand fits anymore but Proph and Taredas are definitely scum
2. Dunno, maybe because my wagon started first?
3. heh, I deliberately left the wording ambiguous to try and use him as bait. I said his wagon 'looked promising,' meaning I saw the potential to catch scum hopping onto it. (Which I did) Notice I also said he was misinterpreting a quote, which is a mistake town can make as well as scum
Snurfy's post clearly implied that he or she was claiming Gruul. Why would you question that over anyone else's claim? Furthermore, why would anyone LIE about being Gruul? That's just suicide since it's a straightforward clan ability to test. With which of these do you take issue?
Atog-
3. If you've never had a scum read on Vish this game (253), what made you think his wagon looked 'promising' (157)?
3. heh, I deliberately left the wording ambiguous to try and use him as bait. I said his wagon 'looked promising,' meaning I saw the potential to catch scum hopping onto it. (Which I did) Notice I also said he was misinterpreting a quote, which is a mistake town can make as well as scum
Why not? I thought it was quite clever of me. Note that Vish is one of 2 people in this game that I've had meaningful interactions in previous games with, I think I can read him pretty well.
Why not? I thought it was quite clever of me. Note that Vish is one of 2 people in this game that I've had meaningful interactions in previous games with, I think I can read him pretty well.
Nothing in your posts indicated that you had a town read on Vish until your noncommittal attempt to run up his wagon failed. Then you tried to put yourself in the same boat as him viz-a-viz the lynch bait nonsense.
Actually I looked back, and the bolded is a lie. He clearly wrote that he disliked a statement of mine directed to him that had nothing to do with Proph and whoever else he is talking about (Taredas?) when he listed me as part of the scumteam.
We've got our D1 lynch.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumAnd you're still voting Taredas despite you being "100% sure than I'm scum".
DO IT
Agreed.
I still want snurfy to answer my question.
The disconnect without showing interest in the game bothers me.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Back either later tonight, assuming I fit a decent nap in, or tomorrow.
Well, if hans can vote for the Orzhov Ghost Council, perhaps I can vote for the Guild Leader of the Dimir? Given that we know that the Dimir have infiltrated our guilds, I don't see why not to try this.
I have class for the next three hours, see you guize later
zindabad (2): Scarbo, Archmage Eternal
ZeDorkSlipeur (2): Cythare, Sir Karn
Prophylaxis (1): Axelrod
Obzedat (1): hansanator
hansanator (1): Sepiriel
Sir Karn (1): ZeDorkSlipeur
Vishamon (2): Azrael, AsianInvasion
Atogaholic (5): Taredas, Rhand, Prophylaxis, 7hawk77, Obzedat
Taredas (1): Atogaholic
Definitely still 11 to lynch. Let me know if there's errors with the count.
Prod check will happen
around dinnertime probablyafter I return from getting huge at the gym.Outdated Mafia Stats
Something I remember. It's been sooo long now since we've played. But also notice how quiet he's been.
This is true, he hates being scum. If so, that 1st post by Zindabad could have been a weak buss attempt to fall back on. But Azrael, why the ? after Vis' weak town
They hate us cause they ain't us.
unvote
Then why haven't you moved your vote?
I am reluctant to proceed to a lynch before KK has had a chance to catch up and give his opinions. I would also like to see some posts from Zindabad.
Care to explain either of those stances?
I buy it. For a catchup post that was astonishingly scummy.
Under threat of dying a painful death, please explain what you see in Az's "catch," as you so put it, and why it suddenly makes you want to lynch me.
Why haven't you done anything relevant?
1. We're doing pretty well so far! Nobody needs an actual prod.
2. The following people are in "watch" territory, and will receive an official prod if they do not post within 24 hours:
hansanator
zindabad
3. If you have fewer posts than I have, you should consider posting more.
4. The following is my record of V/LAs:
AI: "A couple of days"Scarbo: Until 3/11
dkingsland: Until 3/12
Sepiriel: Until 3/13
KoolKoal and AI have just returned from weekend V/LAs.
Please be guided accordingly!
I'll agree with this for the most part, except keep in mind I usually don't have time to do a big honking analysis. That's why a lot of my posts are just a blurb expressing how I feel at the moment.
We don't really need to worry about the guild abilities outing- Gruul was necessary to avoid quicklynches, and its to the Boros' advantage to claim. However, I think that the Orzhov ability should have only been outed under duress if at all, and the members of the Simic should use their better judgement before outing. (The fact it hasn't been outed yet probably means that it shouldn't be). I agree we have to be careful about laying all of this out in the open.
Don't like this at all. Pretty much just /barns everything Az has to say.
So this boils down to "Sep was selfaware" which is pretty much /barning Rhand's case, and then calls his wagon (which wasn't much of a wagon at that point) town. This is a little odd- IGMEOY.
/barn this. I could get behind the Togs wagon. Since I'm Gruul and he's dangerously close to lynch, I'll drop a FoS:Atog for now, but I definitely support lynching him.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse Premium..but then he posts gems such as this one:
Now that I think about it, though, so much of my read on Vish is dependent on my read of Togs. I guess I'll want to start there and not put the cart before the horse.
--
@snurfy8:
1. If you "don't like [Rhand's post] at all" then why are you voting with him on Togs?
2. What happened to your Sir Karn scum read?
Unvote
Vote: hansanator
Scum: AI and Togs. Both of them know Vish well enough that they know he's a super easy lynch/mislynch, yet they both find him scummy for his normal level of play.
People I find scummy, but I always find them scummy all the time, so
Outdated Mafia Stats
4rl?
I presume it's because he's Gruul. The vote itself is not relevant so long as his intent is clear.
I do? I can't think of a single game (other than a CF game) I've played with him.
FoS 7hawk77
#157 has some odd 1-off remarks that don't seem to have a lot of purpose behind them. Remarking to Rhand "I don't like how you backed off Proph" with nothing further. That's a little strange. Telling Sepiral to "work on" his posts. That's kind of purposeless. I don't understand the remark to Az. I'm assuming joke? On the other hand, I'm less bothered with him asking Proph to look at Vishamon and tell him what he sees than some people seem to be. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask someone you suspect might be scum for their opinion on another player. This one is kind of a mixed bag.
#170 is more interesting. If he's Town, it's kind of a huge over-reaction to two quick votes (Taredas + Rhand). Rhand is correct when he says Atog's remark to Sepiral in 157 wasn't scum-hunting. So when Atog comes back and claims that he was trying to "dig into" Sep. with that remark, it's kind of ridiculous. And he's doing it in a way that's also a back-handed attack on Rhand. There's irony in that he criticizes Taredas for doing the "asking useless questions" scumtell after just doing almost the same thing himself. Then he votes Taredas, which can't be anything other than OMGUS. Proph is the one he's been focused on. His "suspicion" of Rhand and Taredas seems to spin almost entirely off his suspicion of Proph. But he never voted Proph. He does vote Taredas. Who voted for him first. This is also a bit of a reversal of his stance on Gruul voting (before he was all cautious about voting due to the mechanic, which was why he supposedly never voted Proph. Now he thinks it's okay if he's "careful").
So, I would say some suspicion is warranted here. I have no idea what the votecount is. I think enough people have weighed in even without voting though. I'm ready to hear a claim.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
For now, I'll leave my vote where it is, and will provide additional content after I do some RL work or when I see more to respond to.
I disagree with this. In order to gain momentum for later days, it's important to have something to pull interactions from.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
True.
Az: Why the inconsistency?
It's because I'm scum.
It's definitely the scummiest post of this game so far, for that in addition to other Reasons
Simple, I'm what you what call "lynch bait." I have relatively low mafia experience, I'm a stranger to the majority of people in this game, I haven't been lurking, and I'm town. Basically I'm the perfect target for scum to try to lynch today. In case you haven't already figured it out, the other person who I think fulfills these qualities is Vish. That's why I've been hunting for scum primarily in the people who've been voting for him and myself.
Say, do you think you can you post 5-10 more times really fast so I have enough grist to make a really killer PBPA on you? Thanks in advance.
If you're honestly curious, which there's no way that you are, I'm generally trying to be careful with my votes, and Vish was the exception to that rule for no better reason than that I forgot my own suggested guidelines.
What even. Your inferiority complex is so strong it almost makes you look arrogant. The mind boggles.
Bite me.
tl;dmq:
ZDS- why was there a reaction you expected from Sep? (106)
Proph- Zind wasn't getting the pressure I felt he deserved.
Atog-
1. Do you believe three scum (Taredas, Rhand, and Proph) would spearhead your lynch?
2. If you and Vish are 'lynch bait' (253), why do you think you're more under attack than Vish?
3. If you've never had a scum read on Vish this game (253), what made you think his wagon looked 'promising' (157)?
thank you
There is nothing trust worthy that snurfy has done so far in this game so the fact that you automatically took what he said as word of God is suspect.
@Everyone else: if snurfy/scarbo flips scum remember this interaction. I think scarbos tying makes him more likely scum. If snurfy is town, scarbo would know that and could trust what he says, if both are scum, he would be innately backing his buddy. I see no town motivator in that action.
Outdated Mafia Stats
1. Eh I don't think Rhand fits anymore but Proph and Taredas are definitely scum
2. Dunno, maybe because my wagon started first?
3. heh, I deliberately left the wording ambiguous to try and use him as bait. I said his wagon 'looked promising,' meaning I saw the potential to catch scum hopping onto it. (Which I did) Notice I also said he was misinterpreting a quote, which is a mistake town can make as well as scum
heh, I don't buy that for a second.
OK with an Atog lynch.
Nothing in your posts indicated that you had a town read on Vish until your noncommittal attempt to run up his wagon failed. Then you tried to put yourself in the same boat as him viz-a-viz the lynch bait nonsense.
Do you know what the Gruul do vote wise?
They hate us cause they ain't us.