I don't share which people I have a town read on until I have to -- I prefer to focus entirely on scumhunting. What you should have said is "Nothing in your posts indicated that you had a scum read on Vish" which is more indicative of my thoughts on his alignment than anything else.
The bait thing has been my strat this entire game, I'm pretty pleased with what it turned up as well.
I don't share which people I have a town read on until I have to -- I prefer to focus entirely on scumhunting. What you should have said is "Nothing in your posts indicated that you had a scum read on Vish" which is more indicative of my thoughts on his alignment than anything else.
The bait thing has been my strat this entire game, I'm pretty pleased with what it turned up as well.
So are we not lynching Sepiriel anymore? I guess I could support an Atog wagon....
unvote
While I am of the opinion that the Ghost Council is probably something that we should be wary of, I suppose it's probably best to wait until we have a better idea of what it is before we lynch it.
So far, I like Rhand and I like Axelrod. Everyone else is kinda meh.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
In case you don't understand, I always keep my town reads to myself if I can - that's just how I play mafia. For example, there are several people who I'm reading as town right now that I haven't said a word about. On the other hand, if I think someone is scum I will always outright say it. My point is that the absence of me saying someone is town means nothing while the absence of me saying someone is scum is indicative of my thoughts. So you should be asking the question you bolded instead of the one you asked.
Quote from AI »
I'm not sure what's more annoying/useless: Atog claiming town or Az claiming scum.
At any rate, it doesn't seem like we're going to get anywhere until zindabad posts again. After that I think we should proceed with lynching Atog.
Getting cold feet on Togs. Not sure if I've seen newb scum intentionally position themselves as low-hanging fruit before.
Need to think more about this.
The way he's doing it is so smarmy and self-congratulatory, I don't buy it as genuine. I've seen anti-town behavior before, but to do it and claim that it's a tactical decision? Puh-leaze.
I like Rhand so far, even though I think he's tunneling on Sepiral too much. You've got to try and imagine how you'd feel if a significant wagon built up on you over your very first RVS post. And then not just keep it to how you personally would feel but imagine how someone else might. Like I said before, I can see where Sep. is coming from on that.
Proph: given that you have apparently admitted to a deliberate shift in playstyle from last game to this (without saying you were going to do so in the thread) what makes my vote on you so poor? Like, if one game you make it a point to mention how you like to look for odd RVS stuff to jump on and attack - which is more or less exactly what you said last game - and then you don't do that here, instead doing what appears to be the opposite, with no explanation, wouldn't that make for a reasonable case of raised eyebrows? And then, when specifically asked about it, and then you say "well, I did notice the thing, but I'm deliberately doing it different this game because it didn't work out so well last time" - again, wouldn't that at least make for a reasonable suspicion?
I don't even care so much if you ignore the vote - but you went out of your way to characterize it as "pretty poor" so, what would you say makes it so?
I have a tendency to dislike the short, hit and run posters. Snurfy maybe being the worst atm. The "you guys post too much" cry of dismay always seems to ring false to me. I am getting the bad vibes from AI now too.
I'll agree with this for the most part, except keep in mind I usually don't have time to do a big honking analysis. That's why a lot of my posts are just a blurb expressing how I feel at the moment.
Something just dawned on me. We're playing right into the cards of scum with all the guild claims.
@All the non-Gruul that haven't claimed yet: please don't do it.
Especially the remaining Orzhov need to keep silent.
It is good that the abilities are public, but not good that the players having them are outed too.
We don't really need to worry about the guild abilities outing- Gruul was necessary to avoid quicklynches, and its to the Boros' advantage to claim. However, I think that the Orzhov ability should have only been outed under duress if at all, and the members of the Simic should use their better judgement before outing. (The fact it hasn't been outed yet probably means that it shouldn't be). I agree we have to be careful about laying all of this out in the open.
How do the two bolded statements mesh?
Quote from Rhand »
Okay, I'm probably completely wrong about Sepi then. Thx Az.
Also, the other question was also me. I found it weird that you put Sepi there and not just nowhere like all other nullreads.
I'll take another look at Vishamon. What's your take on Atog?
Don't like this at all. Pretty much just /barns everything Az has to say.
Do you really think it's scummy to ask the best reader of people in the game for a read on someone you think you're tunneling and then adjusting your read accordingly?
Az made a nice catch in #190. I want to lynch Proph, Taredas, or AI toDay
Simple, I'm what you what call "lynch bait." I have relatively low mafia experience, I'm a stranger to the majority of people in this game, I haven't been lurking, and I'm town. Basically I'm the perfect target for scum to try to lynch today. In case you haven't already figured it out, the other person who I think fulfills these qualities is Vish. That's why I've been hunting for scum primarily in the people who've been voting for him and myself.
You're accusing two experienced players, including one of the best ones on the site (Taredas) of going for low-hanging fruit. If they would really push a lynch through on town fruit, then they'll be caught with their hand in the cookie jar. I don't see Taredas making a mistake like that.
Pretty much the whole post, except I wanted to explain why my posts were usually short.
Quote from Rhand »
How do the two bolded statements mesh?
To clarify- I said we didn't need to worry about the guilds outing that were beneficial to the town to know- Gruul and Boros. Orzhov and Simic, on the other hand, should be approched more discreetly.
Quote from Rhand »
Do you really think it's scummy to ask the best reader of people in the game for a read on someone you think you're tunneling and then adjusting your read accordingly?
I really think it's scummy to blindly follow the best reader in the game as if his word were law.
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A mirror, a shield, a promise, a great distance, and a kind word-- five ways to avoid harm.
I'm just trying to remember a time where poorly-playing scum were savvy enough to do this, and I'm drawing a blank. My gut is saying that something's wrong with this lynch, and I've learned to trust it despite not being able to fully articulate my feelings.
Kinda OoT: now I know I wasn't going insane at the beginning of the game. The forum doesn't properly refresh the page when you post. See pic attached (if it works), pay attention to the post numbers.
I presume this is a feature to save server space, and I'm going to assume I'm only finding out about it now a year after everyone else...but boy is it a bad feature if it actually is one.
I've found that "preview" is only good for reviewing one's own post; if you want to see the current state of the thread, you have to refresh the whole page or open it up in a new tab.
I think it's weird that Atog came back and didn't say anything about my post #243, where I was laying out the issues I saw, and instead barned my post #244 regarding Taredas.
I realize that technically I didn't ask Atog any questions in #243, but it still seems like something you would respond to. Here are some direct questions:
@Atog: (1) Current opinion about Sepiral? You said you were "digging into" him, which seems somewhat questionable, but, if so, what's your position now? How did you get there?
(2) Between Proph and Taredas, you are voting for Taredas, but have made more posts about Proph. Do you have an opinion about which one of them is more likely to be scum? Are you convinced they are scum together?
(3) You quoted my post as one reason Taredas's post was "the scummiest post in the game so far" but also said there were other reasons it was. What reasons?
(4) You have also seemingly barned Azrael is agreeing AI looks scummy. Can you say with a little more specificity what you don't like about him?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Yes I understand the Gruul mechanic. But out of 5 people on the wagon, I'm definitely boros and obzedat is probably some weird gimmick relating to some game mechanic. I don't see the point of fear mongering over the quick lynch gruul mechanic when 6 votes are needed. It just looks suspicious to have scarbo believe snurfy on the vote count and for those two +AE blatantly fear monger for town points. Seems forced and I don't like it. Also opting yourself out of vote counts for a "mechanic" could easily be used as a scum tactic to avoid detection later when re analyzing vote counts.
Yes I understand the Gruul mechanic. But out of 5 people on the wagon, I'm definitely boros and obzedat is probably some weird gimmick relating to some game mechanic. I don't see the point of fear mongering over the quick lynch gruul mechanic when 6 votes are needed. It just looks suspicious to have scarbo believe snurfy on the vote count and for those two +AE blatantly fear monger for town points. Seems forced and I don't like it. Also opting yourself out of vote counts for a "mechanic" could easily be used as a scum tactic to avoid detection later when re analyzing vote counts.
I lol'd at the fear monger.
Gruul ar not opting out of anything. They are clearly stating intentions. If that's not the case and later in the game use that excuse then you can chalk them up as scum.
Pretty much the whole post, except I wanted to explain why my posts were usually short.
Quote from Rhand »
How do the two bolded statements mesh?
To clarify- I said we didn't need to worry about the guilds outing that were beneficial to the town to know- Gruul and Boros. Orzhov and Simic, on the other hand, should be approched more discreetly.
Quote from Rhand »
Do you really think it's scummy to ask the best reader of people in the game for a read on someone you think you're tunneling and then adjusting your read accordingly?
I really think it's scummy to blindly follow the best reader in the game as if his word were law.
So you think I'm scummy yet agree with Axel's post that starts with him saying that I'm town?
Getting cold feet on Togs. Not sure if I've seen newb scum intentionally position themselves as low-hanging fruit before.
Need to think more about this.
Why wouldn't scum do that?
(As an introduction, in case you were confused, I don't consider tunneling to be a scum-tell unless it's faked, which right now I have no reason to think is the case with you.)
1) I don't, at all. Why would it be scummy?
2) I'm waiting for Atog to respond to my previous post before I make any comment on AI, since their interaction has been one of the most (potentially) telling aspects of AI's play so far. Sorry I'm not actually answering your question, it's on purpose.
3) I will (also) respond to this after Proph does.
1) It's scummy in this particular case because
a) He doesn't give his own ideas about the wagon
b) He doesn't consider the option of no scum being on the wagon. He asks them who the scum are, not if there's scum.
c) He picks out 3 of the 4 pro-Sepiriel players that were vocal about it to ask the question to instead of all 4.
There's a simple reason why I wouldn't expect scum to "intentionally position themselves as low-hanging fruit": risk aversion. When done by town, this tactic requires the confidence that you will be able to turn the tables after you reveal you were just pretending to be scummy. This confidence comes from knowing you are town, and thinking this somehow gives you the magical townie aura I've mentioned in a previous post.
When done by scum, this tactic requires the confidence that you are really good at bull*****ting your way out of a bad situation. Unlike the previous case which required inexperience, this one requires experience or at least strong confidence in your debate skills.
And here lies the problem: if you believe you are good enough to turn around a wagon on yourself (that you created on purpose) and get someone else lynched instead, why not cut the middle man and just try to get someone lynched without bringing negative attention to yourself in the process? From the scum's perspective, the lynch bait tactic is high-risk, low-reward. With all that being said, there is a situation where scum (including and perhaps especially newb scum) will pretend they are pulling the lynch bait tactic: when they realise they ****ed up, and they don't believe they can save themselves by actually debating with their accusers. Note that, in this case, the scum player never actually tried or wanted to become lynch bait.
The bolded is the impression I'm getting from his baiting talk. It doesn't look like baiting.
Incidentally, I should say I'm not a big fan of Taredas's first post either. I was fairly put of with the big "DON'T LYNCH ORZHOV BECAUSE WE NEED INFO" warning at the beginning. Like, yes, it's less than ideal to lynch someone D1 who won't have their alignment revealed, but this looks like an over-reaction. If I thought an Orzhov person was acting the scummiest, I would totally advocate lynching them and shrug my shoulders about the no reveal part. It was all just a bit dramatic.
I don't see why it would be an overreaction, considering how much pressure claimed-Orzhov Sepiriel was under at that point? I wanted to spike the Sepiriel wagon's momentum - so I played up the drama, so the people attacking Sepiriel would be more likely to take a look at what I was saying, step back, and reassess.
I still think we're better off ignoring the Orzhov toDay and looking at them starting toMorrow - it's basically the same argument as no-lynching D1. There's only a couple of scenarios I can think of where lynching a player who won't reveal D1 makes sense if there are players who will reveal (a plethora of Orzhov claims [8-10?] to the extent that it's likely that most if not all of the scum have claimed Orzhov, in which case lynching in Orzhov is fine for PoE; or a player I trust has claimed an ability that allows him/her to learn the identity of dead players, ala Gravedigger in WitchHunt; or an Orzhov lynch is the only realistic alternative to a No Lynch [read: desperation deadline lynch]).
---
There's also the issue of scum potentially false-claiming Orzhov now knowing that they are unlikely to be lynched toDay. Good catch.
Really? Even though almost everyone else has Rhand as strongly town?
Upon reread, Vish's Sepiriel vote is very bad. While ZDS has a point that Vish could simply be overzealous town, I think the timing feels more like scum sensing blood in the water.
Vote Vishamon
Psych! Vishamon's town too after reread.
Can you explain this? Vishamon's a null read for me right now, and I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
I don't share which people I have a town read on until I have to -- I prefer to focus entirely on scumhunting. What you should have said is "Nothing in your posts indicated that you had a scum read on Vish" which is more indicative of my thoughts on his alignment than anything else.
The bait thing has been my strat this entire game, I'm pretty pleased with what it turned up as well.
This feels a lot like a slip.
Note to self: Check whether scarbo invokes slips as town. I'm getting Disney Villains vibes here.
So some unexpected difficulties came up and I won't be able to do as much real analysis as I'd hoped. I get town vibes from Rhand, less so Seperiel but I concur with Taredas about a Seppel lynch.
You clearly read enough of my post to catch my views on Sepiriel, so why didn't you answer my question?
The @Sepiriel and @Az will not help you find scum.
Don't like this statement. What, you don't think I'll find scum if I dig into Sep?
The @Proph : You want me to keep pressure on Proph but you specifically want Proph's input to see if your scumread is correct? No
Wrong. Proph's last couple post have had a "lol, I have no scum reads" vibe and I want to see if he'll actually commit to something
Quote from Taredas »
- Not sure why Proph is drawing flak? Everything I've seen is pretty typical Proph (see: Porcelain Waltz and Unreal Tournament), and he's being active (Proph has one of the same fundamental limitations as scum that I do: he can't maintain motivation as scum for extended periods of time, and tends to lurk, especially as the game goes on).
Weak defense of proph. It's early in Day 1, if he's losing motivation it wouldn't have shown by now. Plus, I happen to know he's been hyped for this game for months, if ever there was a time he'd be motivated as scum it's here
I've seen Proph as scum offsite fairly recently and he was considerably less active early in that game, and I've seen two recent games (Unreal Tournament, Porcelain Waltz [as Proph/Tar hydra] where town!Proph drew heavy flak D1 just for posting like himself and Proph was drawing flak from multiple players (notably Rhand, who I think is likely town) for posting like himself, so I put my foot down. I mean, it's *possible* that Proph is in fact scum and unusually motivated (he's only a weak townread) - but the way to deal with that is to wait and see if Proph stops posting, not run him up for null tells early.
Snurfy.
Hey, Snurfy.
Are you scum?
Here's the 'asking useless questions' scumtell again. Give no value to the town and trumps up your post to make it seem like it's doing something[/quote]
Bullpuckey. It's a reaction gambit, the same one I pulled on KoolKoal in WitchHunt:
As I noted in WitchHunt (linked instead of quoted for brevity), it's a way of testing for self-consciousness. Snurfy's first post felt self-conscious, so I probed.
Why post this?
Obviously it's because the Ghost Council showed up. I know you know this and you're just using filler[/quote]
No, the actual question is "why *post* this?", as in "why bother making an entire post just to post this?". Yes, it's a response to the Obzedat vote, but it doesn't actually *do* anything - there's no sense of trying to figure out what's going on or how best to play around the mysterious vote (contrast hans's post 150, responding to his successful Obzedat vote).
A) I'm not sure why Proph thinks Sir Karn has a "focus" on hunting pairs instead of individuals from just one post, but aside from that I completely understand Proph finding Karn's 43 questionable and don't understand why you *don't* - Karn takes a potshot at Proph without backing it up with a vote or following up on it in any way, which doesn't make a lot of sense from town and *does* make sense if Karn is scum slinging mud at a townie to see if it sticks.
B) Why would Proph focusing on finding town be concerning? Proph's a PoE player like myself, and PoE relies on figuring out which players *aren't* scum and lynching the rest - finding and clearing town *is* scumhunting in that mindset.
C) Why does Proph's response to hans "reek"? It makes perfect sense if Proph is town who thought about what hans was doing and realized that it would make no sense from scum.
Really, you're telling me you'd rather try to clear ~15 or so players instead of finding scum? It's easier for a scum player to 'clear' a town player than scumhunt because they know they're already right and it makes them look like they;re doing something. [/quote]
Strawman and you know it. PoE only has to find enough townies that you can lynch/vig all the uncleared players before scum can get rid of all the players you've cleared - and correctly identifying townies and removing them from the lynch/vig pool makes it more likely that your lynches/vig shots will hit scum, and you can combine it with more conventional scumhunting methods. Redux Mirror is an excellent example of this - I correctly cleared almost half of the playerbase early, and was able to use that plus more conventional scumhunting methods to find and lynch all four scum.
But more to the point, you're attacking Proph for something that *could* come from scum - and when I point out that it's at least as likely to come from Proph as *town*, you double down and dismiss it with a strawman. Moreever, when I call you on it, you try to discredit me with weak attacks. Why?
And while I'm here, why aren't you answering the most important questions in my original post?
Why do you like your vote where it is? More to the point, why not explain why you like your hansanator vote (and, implicitly, why you think he is scum), especially since you've just spent a fair amount of time explaining your thoughts on game mechanics?
<snip>
C) Why does Proph's response to hans "reek"? It makes perfect sense if Proph is town who thought about what hans was doing and realized that it would make no sense from scum.
<snip>
Why are you supporting a Vish wagon without committing to it? More to the point, why are you asking Proph for his opinion on Vish in a way that suggests that you are trying to get Proph to support the wagon when you're pseudovoting Proph?
Az made a nice catch in #190. I want to lynch Proph, Taredas, or AI toDay
Simple, I'm what you what call "lynch bait." I have relatively low mafia experience, I'm a stranger to the majority of people in this game, I haven't been lurking, and I'm town. Basically I'm the perfect target for scum to try to lynch today. In case you haven't already figured it out, the other person who I think fulfills these qualities is Vish. That's why I've been hunting for scum primarily in the people who've been voting for him and myself.[/quote]
I don't share which people I have a town read on until I have to -- I prefer to focus entirely on scumhunting. What you should have said is "Nothing in your posts indicated that you had a scum read on Vish" which is more indicative of my thoughts on his alignment than anything else.
The bait thing has been my strat this entire game, I'm pretty pleased with what it turned up as well.
Hmm.
A) You say that you've been trying to bait scum the entire game (presumably by acting scummy). Is the way you've been attacking Proph and myself part of this, and if so how?
Getting cold feet on Togs. Not sure if I've seen newb scum intentionally position themselves as low-hanging fruit before.
Need to think more about this.
I'm... actually kind of in the same boat here? I'm not sure what to make of Atog's defense. (That's why I didn't post yesterday - Atog dropped his defense posts during my posting window and I wanted to step back and reassess in light of them.) One the one hand, I *have* seen scum defend like that before - Atog's defense basically boils down to "I was intentionally acting scummy to bait reactions", and plenty of scum used that defense on MafiaScum back in the day to justify scummy behavior after the fact. On the other hand, townies with weaker rep *do* sometimes intentionally act scummy to bait scum (zwetschenwasser in Medieval is the classic example; hans in this game probably is as well) and Atog's defense feels more confident than I'm used to from scum.
The fact that AI quotes ZDS in his post asking for an Atog claim indicates he had caught up on the thread and should have been aware that the pressure on Togs was waning, with Proph removing his vote, and a discussion in place between him and ZDS about the validity of Togs' "I made myself look scummy on purpose" claim.
I would not expect the AI I am familiar with to either miss this bit of info, nor would I expect him to misrepresent it as town. This, in concert with how quick he seemed to jump on board with lynching me after Az made his post about my weak vote on Sepiriel gives me a strong scum vibe.
With all that being said, there is a situation where scum (including and perhaps especially newb scum) will pretend they are pulling the lynch bait tactic: when they realise they ****ed up, and they don't believe they can save themselves by actually debating with their accusers. Note that, in this case, the scum player never actually tried or wanted to become lynch bait.
The bolded is the impression I'm getting from his baiting talk. It doesn't look like baiting.
This /barn
The problem is I am having trouble reconciling my scum read on Togs with the scum vibes I'm getting from AI.
Also, I'm liking Taredas' most recent post. Good logical flow, solid analysis. I'd like to see continued content of that level, if more frequently to avoid the "wall of text" problem.
I'm waiting for Atog to respond to my previous post before I make any comment on AI, since their interaction has been one of the most (potentially) telling aspects of AI's play so far.
As far as I can tell, Togs has yet to reply to you. Are we still waiting for your thoughts on AI? I actually had a question about him with regards to Togs that I was hoping you might address.
Also @megs: is there a deadline atm?
The bait thing has been my strat this entire game, I'm pretty pleased with what it turned up as well.
This feels a lot like a slip.
*bites*
Hmmm...Tastes like a combination of frogs, lily pads, and waterbugs. And several other things that float on top of ponds.
Bruh. Did I not say in the post?
Prods for zindabad and hansanator will be processed after I get huge at home.
Vote count will be posted tomorrow, but remember that you have to unvote for a new vote to be counted!
unvote
While I am of the opinion that the Ghost Council is probably something that we should be wary of, I suppose it's probably best to wait until we have a better idea of what it is before we lynch it.
So far, I like Rhand and I like Axelrod. Everyone else is kinda meh.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I'll defer.
Atog, elaborate on your use of the word 'should.'
At any rate, it doesn't seem like we're going to get anywhere until zindabad posts again. After that I think we should proceed with lynching Atog.
Speaking of annoying and useless posts...
Getting cold feet on Togs. Not sure if I've seen newb scum intentionally position themselves as low-hanging fruit before.
Need to think more about this.
Why say this? You've never played with Azrael before.
Wow. I never saw that one coming. You're so clever.
The way he's doing it is so smarmy and self-congratulatory, I don't buy it as genuine. I've seen anti-town behavior before, but to do it and claim that it's a tactical decision? Puh-leaze.
What exactly are you agreeing with here?
How do the two bolded statements mesh?
Do you really think it's scummy to ask the best reader of people in the game for a read on someone you think you're tunneling and then adjusting your read accordingly?
Don't you agree that wanting people to analyse a small early wagon is scummy then?
Do you think AI is scum then for /barning my 'tunnel'?
You're accusing two experienced players, including one of the best ones on the site (Taredas) of going for low-hanging fruit. If they would really push a lynch through on town fruit, then they'll be caught with their hand in the cookie jar. I don't see Taredas making a mistake like that.
Strange. Scarbo starts attacking Atog but apparently didn't read all his posts. Otherwise he would've known he dropped me as scum.
Why wouldn't scum do that?
Pretty much the whole post, except I wanted to explain why my posts were usually short.
To clarify- I said we didn't need to worry about the guilds outing that were beneficial to the town to know- Gruul and Boros. Orzhov and Simic, on the other hand, should be approched more discreetly.
I really think it's scummy to blindly follow the best reader in the game as if his word were law.
Getting nervous about Taredas. I'd expect him to post more at this stage of the game where tons of things are happening.
Someone made the comment that he should check in before we lynch anybody, but at this point it's just as likely that he's going to be replaced.
I do believe we have enough real and virtual votes on Atog for a claim. Let's hear it.
I've found that "preview" is only good for reviewing one's own post; if you want to see the current state of the thread, you have to refresh the whole page or open it up in a new tab.
I realize that technically I didn't ask Atog any questions in #243, but it still seems like something you would respond to. Here are some direct questions:
@Atog: (1) Current opinion about Sepiral? You said you were "digging into" him, which seems somewhat questionable, but, if so, what's your position now? How did you get there?
(2) Between Proph and Taredas, you are voting for Taredas, but have made more posts about Proph. Do you have an opinion about which one of them is more likely to be scum? Are you convinced they are scum together?
(3) You quoted my post as one reason Taredas's post was "the scummiest post in the game so far" but also said there were other reasons it was. What reasons?
(4) You have also seemingly barned Azrael is agreeing AI looks scummy. Can you say with a little more specificity what you don't like about him?
zindabad (1): Archmage Eternal
ZeDorkSlipeur (2): Cythare, Sir Karn
Prophylaxis (1): Axelrod
hansanator (2): Sepiriel, Scarbo
Sir Karn (1): ZeDorkSlipeur
Vishamon (2): Azrael, AsianInvasion
Atogaholic (4): Taredas, Rhand, 7hawk77, Obzedat
Taredas (1): Atogaholic
Prods for zindabad and taredas are being processed.... now! (I fell asleep after I made that post yesterday)
Outdated Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
This is pure speculation, but I'm guessing that lynching Obzedat will free the Orzhov players from Immortal Servitude.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Outdated Mafia Stats
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
/barn. That post felt weird to me, especially since there are only three "real" votes on Togs.
I want more lurkers to post.
In other news, I'm going to switch my vote now - no reason to keep my vote on ZDS when I also think Atog is scum.
Unvote ZDS
Vote Atogaholic
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Vote AsianInvasion
The more I think about it the more I think this is a pretty viable route to go Today.
Because of his eagerness for a claim?
I lol'd at the fear monger.
Gruul ar not opting out of anything. They are clearly stating intentions. If that's not the case and later in the game use that excuse then you can chalk them up as scum.
I agree, and since Zindabad is hiding I will
Unvote
Vote AI
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Agreed.
I'm getting bored and want to lynch someone I'm pretty sure is scum.
So you think I'm scummy yet agree with Axel's post that starts with him saying that I'm town?
1) It's scummy in this particular case because
a) He doesn't give his own ideas about the wagon
b) He doesn't consider the option of no scum being on the wagon. He asks them who the scum are, not if there's scum.
c) He picks out 3 of the 4 pro-Sepiriel players that were vocal about it to ask the question to instead of all 4.
2) Ok. But I do want an answer later then.
The bolded is the impression I'm getting from his baiting talk. It doesn't look like baiting.
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I don't see why it would be an overreaction, considering how much pressure claimed-Orzhov Sepiriel was under at that point? I wanted to spike the Sepiriel wagon's momentum - so I played up the drama, so the people attacking Sepiriel would be more likely to take a look at what I was saying, step back, and reassess.
I still think we're better off ignoring the Orzhov toDay and looking at them starting toMorrow - it's basically the same argument as no-lynching D1. There's only a couple of scenarios I can think of where lynching a player who won't reveal D1 makes sense if there are players who will reveal (a plethora of Orzhov claims [8-10?] to the extent that it's likely that most if not all of the scum have claimed Orzhov, in which case lynching in Orzhov is fine for PoE; or a player I trust has claimed an ability that allows him/her to learn the identity of dead players, ala Gravedigger in WitchHunt; or an Orzhov lynch is the only realistic alternative to a No Lynch [read: desperation deadline lynch]).
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Can you explain this? Vishamon's a null read for me right now, and I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
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Note to self: Check whether scarbo invokes slips as town. I'm getting Disney Villains vibes here.
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You clearly read enough of my post to catch my views on Sepiriel, so why didn't you answer my question?
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I've seen Proph as scum offsite fairly recently and he was considerably less active early in that game, and I've seen two recent games (Unreal Tournament, Porcelain Waltz [as Proph/Tar hydra] where town!Proph drew heavy flak D1 just for posting like himself and Proph was drawing flak from multiple players (notably Rhand, who I think is likely town) for posting like himself, so I put my foot down. I mean, it's *possible* that Proph is in fact scum and unusually motivated (he's only a weak townread) - but the way to deal with that is to wait and see if Proph stops posting, not run him up for null tells early.
Here's the 'asking useless questions' scumtell again. Give no value to the town and trumps up your post to make it seem like it's doing something[/quote]
Bullpuckey. It's a reaction gambit, the same one I pulled on KoolKoal in WitchHunt:
As I noted in WitchHunt (linked instead of quoted for brevity), it's a way of testing for self-consciousness. Snurfy's first post felt self-conscious, so I probed.
Obviously it's because the Ghost Council showed up. I know you know this and you're just using filler[/quote]
No, the actual question is "why *post* this?", as in "why bother making an entire post just to post this?". Yes, it's a response to the Obzedat vote, but it doesn't actually *do* anything - there's no sense of trying to figure out what's going on or how best to play around the mysterious vote (contrast hans's post 150, responding to his successful Obzedat vote).
Really, you're telling me you'd rather try to clear ~15 or so players instead of finding scum? It's easier for a scum player to 'clear' a town player than scumhunt because they know they're already right and it makes them look like they;re doing something. [/quote]
Strawman and you know it. PoE only has to find enough townies that you can lynch/vig all the uncleared players before scum can get rid of all the players you've cleared - and correctly identifying townies and removing them from the lynch/vig pool makes it more likely that your lynches/vig shots will hit scum, and you can combine it with more conventional scumhunting methods. Redux Mirror is an excellent example of this - I correctly cleared almost half of the playerbase early, and was able to use that plus more conventional scumhunting methods to find and lynch all four scum.
But more to the point, you're attacking Proph for something that *could* come from scum - and when I point out that it's at least as likely to come from Proph as *town*, you double down and dismiss it with a strawman. Moreever, when I call you on it, you try to discredit me with weak attacks. Why?
And while I'm here, why aren't you answering the most important questions in my original post?
Simple, I'm what you what call "lynch bait." I have relatively low mafia experience, I'm a stranger to the majority of people in this game, I haven't been lurking, and I'm town. Basically I'm the perfect target for scum to try to lynch today. In case you haven't already figured it out, the other person who I think fulfills these qualities is Vish. That's why I've been hunting for scum primarily in the people who've been voting for him and myself.[/quote]
Hmm.
A) You say that you've been trying to bait scum the entire game (presumably by acting scummy). Is the way you've been attacking Proph and myself part of this, and if so how?
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I'm... actually kind of in the same boat here? I'm not sure what to make of Atog's defense. (That's why I didn't post yesterday - Atog dropped his defense posts during my posting window and I wanted to step back and reassess in light of them.) One the one hand, I *have* seen scum defend like that before - Atog's defense basically boils down to "I was intentionally acting scummy to bait reactions", and plenty of scum used that defense on MafiaScum back in the day to justify scummy behavior after the fact. On the other hand, townies with weaker rep *do* sometimes intentionally act scummy to bait scum (zwetschenwasser in Medieval is the classic example; hans in this game probably is as well) and Atog's defense feels more confident than I'm used to from scum.
More in a bit.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I would not expect the AI I am familiar with to either miss this bit of info, nor would I expect him to misrepresent it as town. This, in concert with how quick he seemed to jump on board with lynching me after Az made his post about my weak vote on Sepiriel gives me a strong scum vibe.
The problem is I am having trouble reconciling my scum read on Togs with the scum vibes I'm getting from AI.
Vote: Atogaholic
I want this. I also want Ghost Council, despite ubiquitous disagreement.