AI's play has been particularly bad regardless of scarbo. Plenty of people have pointed out enough evidence, or you could just look at the last two pages of his unwillingness to cooperate with anyone. Sorry I'm not sorry that I like discussing things that are not the main topic.
AI's play has been particularly bad regardless of scarbo. Plenty of people have pointed out enough evidence, or you could just look at the last two pages of his unwillingness to cooperate with anyone. Sorry I'm not sorry that I like discussing things that are not the main topic.
Ok and the reason you unvoted him in that case?
Because I'm better at finding town as town so if scarbo thinks AI isn't scum, I'm ok with lynching another scumspect.
I guess you're scum. Now to figure out if that changes the AI situation.
If Atog doesn't get lynched/gets replaced, is there any serious interest in stringing up hawk? If I have to PBPA him myself, I will, but somehow I feel that a PBPA would be better received if came from a source with fewer votes.
I was going to get into this but I'd rather hear you tell me what his stance is.
He's been fairly inquisitive - more involved in the game, I feel, than Cyberspace Mafia (where all he did was post notes for D1).
What's his take on AI? He made something up about him and hoped anyone would run with it. Now he ignores that fact. He's involved by throwing mud and smearing people. He's not scumhunting, he's discrediting people. I don't see a town mindset coming from him.
I still stand by the AI case, notwithstanding a number of the folks supporting the wagon not adding much original analysis. I think that's par for the town at this point, and ZDS and I have already done the PBPA route to death.
I can't ever recall playing with AI in a mood like this. It's hard for me to grok where it's coming from, from a townie perspective, and his reads and positions and defenses don't convince me that he's trying to give honest assessments. Like, the bad mood is clearly genuine (though I suspect he's playing it up a bit at this point), but I don't see how it developed other than his coming under pressure, and he's denied that my case against him was the cause of his bad mood.
Next on my schedule is a full thread reread with notes.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
If Atog doesn't get lynched/gets replaced, is there any serious interest in stringing up hawk? If I have to PBPA him myself, I will, but somehow I feel that a PBPA would be better received if came from a source with fewer votes.
Please do PBPA him.
Even if your PBPA is not well received, it won't go anywhere. In the worst case scenario where we lynch you and you are town, we can take a second look at it. Plus, who knows, it could be good enough to start a counter-wagon and pull you out of trouble. If you are town it's win-win. Only if you are scum are there losing scenarios.
That's up to four scum out of seven players. Do you believe the entire rest of the scum team is voting you to save Atog (or some other similar conspiracy theory)?
I'm not convinced on the leaning scum reads. That's why they're leaning scum. I could also be wrong about hans and/or hawk (especially the former), but I would like both of them to get lynched/vigged, if on policy alone.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
AI, you never commented on this. Why?
Why would I? It's a crude mischaracterization that does not deserve to be acknowledged given zin's questionable attentiveness to the state of the thread.
You know I was voting you too as of this morning. You left me off your list there.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
AI, you never commented on this. Why?
Why would I? It's a crude mischaracterization that does not deserve to be acknowledged given zin's questionable attentiveness to the state of the thread.
What the hell is this? It's a joke. Using a bunch of words to say a whole lot of nothing in an attempt to make it look like you are saying something.
So a player is showing questionable attentiveness in the thread and is mischaracterizing you, but you just let him slide right by? Why wouldn't you question that behavior? I did that to Zindabad when he made false statements about me in a game and it led to his lynch. He was scum, which is why this whole interaction or lack of it, stood out to me.
Is AE literally ever going to make a post in this thread that is not about me?
You have presented absolutely nothing and you continue to do so. You aren't even trying to engage me, either - you're nibbling around the edges, ignoring my posts while trying to get others to comment on me. Posting about me is giving you a reason to plainsight lurk. Change the record and let's hear something about someone whose name doesn't start with z.
Azrael does have an excessive tendency to try to make all of a player's posts fit into a single coherent interpretation, but it strikes me more as a flaw of his scumhunting method than as a sign of ill intent. In the end, the arguments he uses are still either strong or weak, and the motivation behind his PBPAs can still be analysed; just probably not in terms of him being too sure of his read. Even the Azrael is not above tunneling.
Yeah, this was kind of a fence-sit on Az's pbpa. You vaguely seem to sort of acknowledge that it was slanted, maybe, but that doesn't necessarily make him scum. Actually when I re-read it, it looks like a classic fence-sit.
The lines about the lurkers is a bit grasping-at-straws-ish. What's a lurker going to do at this point, try to start a new wagon that will gain zero traction because they aren't here often enough to push it properly?
hansanator was under pressure, disappeared, and now reappears with a naked vote on the hot wagon. What other interpretation am I supposed to make of that?
Sure thing, pot. I bring up the three people that are being discussed. I still prefer Atogaholic to AI. I also prefer hawk to AI. I've been hesitant to post my full thoughts on hawk because I didn't want to derail the other wagons.
I'm still waiting to hear any explanation beyond the vaguest of reasons as to why you even have those preferences. Are those the only people you have any interest in? Is it a coincidence that they are the only ones (not really hawk) that have been discussed as major wagons since like page 4?
What are your thoughts on AE, Rhand, hansanator, Taredas, and ZDS?
First thing I'd like to address is Zindabads calling me scum with proph (who he said I hadn't interacted with). One of the first things I said was I like having proph in the game because it makes my town game stronger so generally I'd assume he was town unless I had no scumspects. I then said that I could link multiple games where this was the case (no one wanted proof).
I think you are misunderstanding a line of my pbpa of AE. It was Archmage Eternal who tried to create a scum linkage between you and Proph, in this post, despite never saying a word about you or Proph up to that point.
PPE: 11/15 of AE's posts have now been about me. Discounting the first 3, which were all made before I had even posted in the thread, we're looking at 11 out of his last 12 posts being about me.
3 I'm wary of people who post predominantly large walls of text and trump them up with filler because I've experienced scum who do that in the past
Can you give examples of this? Can't recall any scum in CF Mafia 2 who posted predominantly large amounts of text and IIRC that was the only major game you played as town.
You actually, in Gym Leader Mafia. You were the first scum I headed the wagon and caught on my own so it left kind of a big impression on me.
Quote from ZDS »
Links would be great.
Sorry, we're out of luck. All of my completed town games are on a flamingo offsite that no longer exists. I can say that in Gym Leader Mafia, I also employed a reaction gambit that I used to catch the player who proph would eventually replace. KK, Karn, and Vish might have been in that game, I don't remember exactly. Proph was definitely in that game and should be able to confirm this.
Quote from ZDS »
Scarbo is all over the place and annoyingly random, but I'm not sure it translates into scum motivations.
What makes you think this? I don't get that impression from him at all.
Weird that you left me off of this, considering that you yourself said that actual voting isn't as important as the intended pressure behind it, and I'm sure you know my pseudovote has the full force of my real vote behind it. I think you left me off consciously.
Weird that you left me off of this, considering that you yourself said that actual voting isn't as important as the intended pressure behind it, and I'm sure you know my pseudovote has the full force of my real vote behind it. I think you left me off consciously.
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
AI, you never commented on this. Why?
Why would I? It's a crude mischaracterization that does not deserve to be acknowledged given zin's questionable attentiveness to the state of the thread.
What the hell is this? It's a joke. Using a bunch of words to say a whole lot of nothing in an attempt to make it look like you are saying something.
So a player is showing questionable attentiveness in the thread and is mischaracterizing you, but you just let him slide right by? Why wouldn't you question that behavior? I did that to Zindabad when he made false statements about me in a game and it led to his lynch. He was scum, which is why this whole interaction or lack of it, stood out to me.
A player who posts once or twice a week probably doesn't have a very good grasp of what is going on. That's just the reality of the situation. I'm not going to automatically assume that he's scum because he has the wrong idea about a comment I made 100 posts ago.
Is AE literally ever going to make a post in this thread that is not about me?
You have presented absolutely nothing and you continue to do so. You aren't even trying to engage me, either - you're nibbling around the edges, ignoring my posts while trying to get others to comment on me. Posting about me is giving you a reason to plainsight lurk. Change the record and let's hear something about someone whose name doesn't start with z.
AE has had a hard-on for you in more games than just this one. I think he thinks he is very good at reading you, or something along those lines.
I can say that in Gym Leader Mafia, I also employed a reaction gambit that I used to catch the player who proph would eventually replace. KK, Karn, and Vish might have been in that game, I don't remember exactly. Proph was definitely in that game and should be able to confirm this.
I do indeed remember that game, although what I remember most about it is solving the game, and roleblocking Megs the final night to prevent the NK because I had him pinned as scum, only to have his night action supersede my roleblock, somehow causing the town to lose (though I don't remember how that part happened).
Sorry, we're out of luck. All of my completed town games are on a flamingo offsite that no longer exists. I can say that in Gym Leader Mafia, I also employed a reaction gambit that I used to catch the player who proph would eventually replace. KK, Karn, and Vish might have been in that game, I don't remember exactly. Proph was definitely in that game and should be able to confirm this.
So it was 2/3 years ago, and I don't remember anything but the late game. Your gambit was almost certainly against someone with no experience or maybe 1 game of experience.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Someone show me a game where AI was a big baby about getting lynched and was scum, quick.
I went back and checked, and AI had some comparable stuff on D2 of Amistarian 3, mostly towards Iso and PopeRonPaul? Not much when he actually got lynched D4, but that was heavily driven by his scumbuddies (he knew his strongest attackers were scum, and it showed).
It's not nearly as consistent as it is here, though, which gives me pause. I need to think about this. And probably sleep on it, too.
I just realized that there *is* a town mindset that would explain AI's actions. I will not explain further at this time - we can revisit later if necessary.
I'm interested in what taredas found because by my logic, I thought scarbo was town regardless of AIS alignment. I'm ok with finding out on a later day.
Hey atog, if you had a bulletproof vest to give out, who would you hand it to and why. What about if you had to day vig?
AI's indignation and claim of going on hiatus sounds hollow and forced, I recall he pulled the same line on me once before and he was back into playing not soon afterwards so yeah he is clearly playing this up, i am not swayed.
Also I was sure i had already unvoted before going V/LA and voted AI on #370, so seeing me still voting hans was odd but then on quick review it seems i accidentally did not unvoted so.
/unvote
/vote AI
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I just realized that there *is* a town mindset that would explain AI's actions. I will not explain further at this time - we can revisit later if necessary.
What is it that you think you see, and what good do you think it does to keep this close to the chest?
That makes more sense, but it also doesn't explain who are the "terribad scum [who] are coming out of the woodwork". Why make this comment if you have this little conviction?
(Writing this question makes me realise this is a bit of a catch-22, but I can think of a few valid/not-scummy answers in theory to it)
I wanted to see who would stick to their guns and who would back off.
Sorry, we're out of luck. All of my completed town games are on a flamingo offsite that no longer exists. I can say that in Gym Leader Mafia, I also employed a reaction gambit that I used to catch the player who proph would eventually replace. KK, Karn, and Vish might have been in that game, I don't remember exactly. Proph was definitely in that game and should be able to confirm this.
Quote from ZDS »
Scarbo is all over the place and annoyingly random, but I'm not sure it translates into scum motivations.
What makes you think this? I don't get that impression from him at all.
1) Grmblbl. Well, I'm not interested in lynching you anymore anyway. Too many doubts.
2) He's gotten more focused lately, but before that I recall him making isolated votes, dismissing questions and other stuff. I recommend looking up his posts before he started voting you. His suggestion that we lynch Obzedat was also pretty random.
Bonus question: You've been gone for a while. Can you give us your thoughts on what happened during your absence, and give us your current reads?
The fact that Atog has done this type of self-baiting as town in the past gives me pause as well, although the simple fact that he brought it up himself makes this stew taste of iocane.
AI's indignation and claim of going on hiatus sounds hollow and forced, I recall he pulled the same line on me once before and he was back into playing not soon afterwards so yeah he is clearly playing this up, i am not swayed.
Also I was sure i had already unvoted before going V/LA and voted AI on #370, so seeing me still voting hans was odd but then on quick review it seems i accidentally did not unvoted so.
/unvote
/vote AI
I recall no such thing because you ******* made it up. If you can prove that I did I will replace out right now. But you can't so get ******* wrecked.
Does anyone else find it curious that every time someone unvotes AI, someone else who wasn't on the wagon puts a vote down almost immediately afterward?
Sure thing, pot. I bring up the three people that are being discussed. I still prefer Atogaholic to AI. I also prefer hawk to AI. I've been hesitant to post my full thoughts on hawk because I didn't want to derail the other wagons.
I'm still waiting to hear any explanation beyond the vaguest of reasons as to why you even have those preferences. Are those the only people you have any interest in? Is it a coincidence that they are the only ones (not really hawk) that have been discussed as major wagons since like page 4?
What are your thoughts on AE, Rhand, hansanator, Taredas, and ZDS?
I've given my thoughts on Rhand and my read on ZDS. Here's a breakdown on the players you noted:
Rhand: Town. See 248 and 349.
ZDS: Leaning scum. Noted in 248. For more specifics, I don't like 51, 126, and 237. He's read better to me recently, though.
AE: Leaning town. His attacks on you haven't felt like scum attacks, and I don't like how you've approached his fixation on you.
hansanator: I'm not sure.
Taredas: Town. I haven't read anything in his posts that felt off, and the effort he's putting in feels genuine.
I recall no such thing because you ******* made it up. If you can prove that I did I will replace out right now. But you can't so get ******* wrecked.
Actually I do need to amend myself on this one, I confused you with Arcadic it seems (either him or Tilde), apologies for my wrongful accusation.
That being said... wow... rereading Ender's Game was cringe worthy in so many ways, so yeah good to see 3+ years have done nothing to change how little we see eye to eye.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
#61 - Declares Az is town. Also lists Rhand, Karn, and Proph as town. hans responses are "normal," whatever that means. Thinks Sepiriel is scum because the people wagoning him seem town.
For reference [Sepiriel (5): Sepiriel, Rhand, AsianInvasion, Sir Karn, hansanator]
Claims Boros.
I'm surprised I didn't pick up on this at the time (probably something to do with skimming typo-laden posts). Barning a five-vote (arguably four) wagon because he thinks the voters are town...and doing nothing with his own vote in the meantime should have been a red flag.
#67 - Warns against Simic or Orzhov claiming, as one guild claiming effectively outs the other.
I found this post helpful at the time but it doesn't shed any insight on hawk's alignment.
#72 - Responds to AE's #70 (accusing hawk of being buddies with Proph), advocating for both himself and Proph as working well together when both are town. Subtle town claim.
I don't know what hawk's scum play looks like, but this is a weak town tell in that hawk's explanation is consistent with his relationship with Proph previous games (which I assume Proph can verify).
#147 - Responds to snurfy calling Karn scum by saying that he feels the exact opposite.
Null on hawk, but did snurfy ever explain himself? Or do anything relevant? Someone to keep an eye on.
#198-201 - Responds to Taredas's #161 and Proph's #191, which primarily question hawk's barn of the Sepiriel wagon and claiming Boros. (Rhand also raised a similar point re: Sepiriel.) Explains that Sepiriel is scum for doing X, Y, and Z, not just because players he gut/meta-reads as town are voting him, but if the wagoners were scummy he would be concerned. Neglects to answer Proph's question about why he never voted Sepiriel. Votes snurfy.
This set of posts is more telling. hawk attempts to justify his suspicion when called out, but his reasoning could fit either bad town play or bad scum play, so it really doesn't explain anything. He claims that lynching Sepiriel D1 is a waste, and that seems to be the end of the discussion for him. The snurfy vote is fine, but he fails to follow up in any meaningful way. Why did he need to post four times in a row for this?
#211 - Responds to Rhand by saying he's fine lynching Atog and undecided on AI. Waffles due to "conflicting ideas" and the fact that Battalion works better when more Boros are alive.
As someone who voted Sepiriel early on but apparently did not ping hawk's scumdar, I find this change of heart noteworthy. ZDS also points out in #237 that scummy Boros should still be lynched.
#213-214 - Responds to Proph by saying that he also gets bad vibes from dkingsland. Minimizes value of content re: AI, waffles some more.
hawk continues to poke around without doing much of anything.
#217 - Votes Atog. Expresses continued mistrust of snurfy.
A rather quick turnaround from voting snurfy in #201, just 16 posts before. The Atog wagon was really picking up steam at this point.
EVERYONE SHOULD READ #201-#221. Does anyone else feel that the way Proph pushed this wagon was highly suspect? Could be a bus. Also Vish asked for a vote count right before Obzedat was shown to be voting Atog. Nice claim.
#240 - Asks snurfy why he FoS'd Atog instead of voting, despite snurfy explaining that he is Gruul in the same line.
scarbo and I immediately jump on this. It is at this point that I begin to find hawk's selective attention scummy.
Incidentally, Axelrod's #244 makes me want to lynch Taredas.
#245-246 - Challenges snurfy's use of the phrase "dangerously close to lynching," given that there were apparently only 5 votes on Atog at the time.
While hawk is technically correct, when it comes to the Gruul mechanic, I'm a firm believer in "better safe than sorry."
#259 - Believes scarbo to be scum for implicitly believing snurfy's reasoning for FoS. Wants others to remember the interaction should one of them flip scum, but thinks scarbo is scum even if snurfy is town.
Strong words. Why didn't he pursue this at the time and/or vote scarbo? Why didn't the FoS of his scumread snurfy deter him from being on the Atog wagon? We've got ourselves a live one.
#295 - Responds to AE by saying he does understand the Gruul mechanic but thinks that snurfy using it as an excuse not to vote is scummy. Expresses suspicion of snurfy, scarbo, and AE. Says he would be fine lynching Atog, dkingsland, snurfy, or scarbo.
He has a pretty long list of players he is willing to lynch but has yet to acknowledge that one is voting the other, something that would have given him pause on the Sepiriel wagon, but doesn't even register here.
#298 - Takes Cythare's "useless" "speculation" in the previous post seriously, and expresses interest in testing it.
Talk about terrible ideas. Hard to say if this plan is scummy or just plain dumb.
@ZDS: In the following post (#300), you question my push for Atog to claim (#292) but had nothing to say about Axelrod doing the same thing in #243. Why?
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
AI, you never commented on this. Why?
Why would I? It's a crude mischaracterization that does not deserve to be acknowledged given zin's questionable attentiveness to the state of the thread.
What the hell is this? It's a joke. Using a bunch of words to say a whole lot of nothing in an attempt to make it look like you are saying something.
So a player is showing questionable attentiveness in the thread and is mischaracterizing you, but you just let him slide right by? Why wouldn't you question that behavior? I did that to Zindabad when he made false statements about me in a game and it led to his lynch. He was scum, which is why this whole interaction or lack of it, stood out to me.
A player who posts once or twice a week probably doesn't have a very good grasp of what is going on. That's just the reality of the situation. I'm not going to automatically assume that he's scum because he has the wrong idea about a comment I made 100 posts ago.
Wrong idea is one thing, but to completely falsify the situation is another. You just come across as not wanting any attention coming your way.
[/quote]
Archmage:
I have to agree with Zindabad about you focusing way too much about him. You have been tunneling him since the start of the game, and the more you pay attention only to him the more you sound obsessed and nothing more. If he's scum, you are doing him a great service by digging your tunnel straight towards complete irrelevancy to the game. If he's town, you are obviously not helping either.
Ok fine. I'll leave you all with this....
From GOO mafia-
Quote from zindabad
Don't have time to give this game my full attention, but - damn, AE, you've only been scum twice (besides this game, I mean)?
AE
Its weird, you sounded like you knew exactly how I functioned as scum but no idea that I haven't been scum much. Almost like you just threw it out there hoping it would catch on.
From this game-
Quote from Archmage Eternal »
Quote from zindabad »
I think it would be a profitable exercise to look back at who started panicking when Az outed the Gruul mechanic. I think I detected a hint of that from AI.
Scum Zindabad will not commit, but will throw mud in hopes the town will run with it. He thinks he detected something but does not give any details. In fact there was no panick from AI. He was in favor of a guild claim and also said he was not Gruul
Our mindsets are the same. Zindabad's not being truthful and I called him out on it. That's what has me hung up on AI. To ignore something someone says about you that is utterly untrue.
AI's indignation and claim of going on hiatus sounds hollow and forced, I recall he pulled the same line on me once before and he was back into playing not soon afterwards so yeah he is clearly playing this up, i am not swayed.
Also I was sure i had already unvoted before going V/LA and voted AI on #370, so seeing me still voting hans was odd but then on quick review it seems i accidentally did not unvoted so.
/unvote
/vote AI
I recall no such thing because you ******* made it up. If you can prove that I did I will replace out right now. But you can't so get ******* wrecked.
You explode on Sepiriel but ignore Zindabad. Your really not instilling any confidence in me.
zindabad was clearly fishing for a reaction. Sepiriel made a slanderous accusation. These are entirely different things. Why are you tunneling so hard, AE?
Because I'm better at finding town as town so if scarbo thinks AI isn't scum, I'm ok with lynching another scumspect.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Why do you trust scarbo's read more than your own just because you think scarbo is town?
You might be able to find one or two games that match what you're looking for early on in my career.
I haven't played in any games since Celestial so I certainly haven't gotten better at the game in the meantime.
If Atog doesn't get lynched/gets replaced, is there any serious interest in stringing up hawk? If I have to PBPA him myself, I will, but somehow I feel that a PBPA would be better received if came from a source with fewer votes.
hawk was voting me prior to unvoting under unclear circumstances.
Proph: Leaning town
AE: Leaning scum
KK: Undecided
Taredas: Undecided
Az: Leaning scum
hans: Scum
hawk: Scum
What's his take on AI? He made something up about him and hoped anyone would run with it. Now he ignores that fact. He's involved by throwing mud and smearing people. He's not scumhunting, he's discrediting people. I don't see a town mindset coming from him.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Can I get a short breakdown on these three? I want to know what you're thinking.
IGMEO Taredas.
Hawk feels like he's phoning it in.
I don't feel confident enough in the AI lynch to put my vote on it.
I didn't know Sep was going V/LA when I made my other post.
I'll try and keep up with this and not fall behind again.
I can't ever recall playing with AI in a mood like this. It's hard for me to grok where it's coming from, from a townie perspective, and his reads and positions and defenses don't convince me that he's trying to give honest assessments. Like, the bad mood is clearly genuine (though I suspect he's playing it up a bit at this point), but I don't see how it developed other than his coming under pressure, and he's denied that my case against him was the cause of his bad mood.
Next on my schedule is a full thread reread with notes.
AI, you never commented on this. Why?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
ummm they had comments and questions and stuff about AI before they voted him?
Just iso my posts. I've already gone over my points of contention against them.
What does "I finally can" mean here?
I'll do it after I finish my paper.
I'm not convinced on the leaning scum reads. That's why they're leaning scum. I could also be wrong about hans and/or hawk (especially the former), but I would like both of them to get lynched/vigged, if on policy alone.
Why would I? It's a crude mischaracterization that does not deserve to be acknowledged given zin's questionable attentiveness to the state of the thread.
What the hell is this? It's a joke. Using a bunch of words to say a whole lot of nothing in an attempt to make it look like you are saying something.
So a player is showing questionable attentiveness in the thread and is mischaracterizing you, but you just let him slide right by? Why wouldn't you question that behavior? I did that to Zindabad when he made false statements about me in a game and it led to his lynch. He was scum, which is why this whole interaction or lack of it, stood out to me.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
You have presented absolutely nothing and you continue to do so. You aren't even trying to engage me, either - you're nibbling around the edges, ignoring my posts while trying to get others to comment on me. Posting about me is giving you a reason to plainsight lurk. Change the record and let's hear something about someone whose name doesn't start with z.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Yeah, this was kind of a fence-sit on Az's pbpa. You vaguely seem to sort of acknowledge that it was slanted, maybe, but that doesn't necessarily make him scum. Actually when I re-read it, it looks like a classic fence-sit.
hansanator was under pressure, disappeared, and now reappears with a naked vote on the hot wagon. What other interpretation am I supposed to make of that?
I'm still waiting to hear any explanation beyond the vaguest of reasons as to why you even have those preferences. Are those the only people you have any interest in? Is it a coincidence that they are the only ones (not really hawk) that have been discussed as major wagons since like page 4?
What are your thoughts on AE, Rhand, hansanator, Taredas, and ZDS?
I think you are misunderstanding a line of my pbpa of AE. It was Archmage Eternal who tried to create a scum linkage between you and Proph, in this post, despite never saying a word about you or Proph up to that point.
PPE: 11/15 of AE's posts have now been about me. Discounting the first 3, which were all made before I had even posted in the thread, we're looking at 11 out of his last 12 posts being about me.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Sorry, we're out of luck. All of my completed town games are on a flamingo offsite that no longer exists. I can say that in Gym Leader Mafia, I also employed a reaction gambit that I used to catch the player who proph would eventually replace. KK, Karn, and Vish might have been in that game, I don't remember exactly. Proph was definitely in that game and should be able to confirm this.
What makes you think this? I don't get that impression from him at all.
I actualy unvoted in #406
Weird that you left me off of this, considering that you yourself said that actual voting isn't as important as the intended pressure behind it, and I'm sure you know my pseudovote has the full force of my real vote behind it. I think you left me off consciously.
I think you are terrible at reading.
I'm leaning town on you.
A player who posts once or twice a week probably doesn't have a very good grasp of what is going on. That's just the reality of the situation. I'm not going to automatically assume that he's scum because he has the wrong idea about a comment I made 100 posts ago.
AE has had a hard-on for you in more games than just this one. I think he thinks he is very good at reading you, or something along those lines.
Clearly I must be because I don't get your point.
I mean - why are you convinced that the lynches that you support can't realistically happen?
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Need to reread and stuff because apparently this town just doesn't want to get anything done. :/
I went back and checked, and AI had some comparable stuff on D2 of Amistarian 3, mostly towards Iso and PopeRonPaul? Not much when he actually got lynched D4, but that was heavily driven by his scumbuddies (he knew his strongest attackers were scum, and it showed).
It's not nearly as consistent as it is here, though, which gives me pause. I need to think about this. And probably sleep on it, too.
More in the morning.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I just realized that there *is* a town mindset that would explain AI's actions. I will not explain further at this time - we can revisit later if necessary.
Unvote, Vote: Scarbo
I need to reread now.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Hey atog, if you had a bulletproof vest to give out, who would you hand it to and why. What about if you had to day vig?
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Also I was sure i had already unvoted before going V/LA and voted AI on #370, so seeing me still voting hans was odd but then on quick review it seems i accidentally did not unvoted so.
/unvote
/vote AI
What is it that you think you see, and what good do you think it does to keep this close to the chest?
The fact that Atog has done this type of self-baiting as town in the past gives me pause as well, although the simple fact that he brought it up himself makes this stew taste of iocane.
I recall no such thing because you ******* made it up. If you can prove that I did I will replace out right now. But you can't so get ******* wrecked.
Rhand: Town. See 248 and 349.
ZDS: Leaning scum. Noted in 248. For more specifics, I don't like 51, 126, and 237. He's read better to me recently, though.
AE: Leaning town. His attacks on you haven't felt like scum attacks, and I don't like how you've approached his fixation on you.
hansanator: I'm not sure.
Taredas: Town. I haven't read anything in his posts that felt off, and the effort he's putting in feels genuine.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
That's not what you asked, and that's not what I said.
@whoever: I can't get a solid read on vish right now so I'm kind of just ignoring him.
I would vote Taredas but it wouldn't do anything at the moment I'm afraid.
Because I've played plenty of games with swishh and I think he is a good player and is speaking with a lot of conviction.
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Actually I do need to amend myself on this one, I confused you with Arcadic it seems (either him or Tilde), apologies for my wrongful accusation.
That being said... wow... rereading Ender's Game was cringe worthy in so many ways, so yeah good to see 3+ years have done nothing to change how little we see eye to eye.
#61 - Declares Az is town. Also lists Rhand, Karn, and Proph as town. hans responses are "normal," whatever that means. Thinks Sepiriel is scum because the people wagoning him seem town.
For reference [Sepiriel (5): Sepiriel, Rhand, AsianInvasion, Sir Karn, hansanator]
Claims Boros.
I'm surprised I didn't pick up on this at the time (probably something to do with skimming typo-laden posts). Barning a five-vote (arguably four) wagon because he thinks the voters are town...and doing nothing with his own vote in the meantime should have been a red flag.
#67 - Warns against Simic or Orzhov claiming, as one guild claiming effectively outs the other.
I found this post helpful at the time but it doesn't shed any insight on hawk's alignment.
#72 - Responds to AE's #70 (accusing hawk of being buddies with Proph), advocating for both himself and Proph as working well together when both are town. Subtle town claim.
I don't know what hawk's scum play looks like, but this is a weak town tell in that hawk's explanation is consistent with his relationship with Proph previous games (which I assume Proph can verify).
#147 - Responds to snurfy calling Karn scum by saying that he feels the exact opposite.
Null on hawk, but did snurfy ever explain himself? Or do anything relevant? Someone to keep an eye on.
#198-201 - Responds to Taredas's #161 and Proph's #191, which primarily question hawk's barn of the Sepiriel wagon and claiming Boros. (Rhand also raised a similar point re: Sepiriel.) Explains that Sepiriel is scum for doing X, Y, and Z, not just because players he gut/meta-reads as town are voting him, but if the wagoners were scummy he would be concerned. Neglects to answer Proph's question about why he never voted Sepiriel. Votes snurfy.
This set of posts is more telling. hawk attempts to justify his suspicion when called out, but his reasoning could fit either bad town play or bad scum play, so it really doesn't explain anything. He claims that lynching Sepiriel D1 is a waste, and that seems to be the end of the discussion for him. The snurfy vote is fine, but he fails to follow up in any meaningful way. Why did he need to post four times in a row for this?
#211 - Responds to Rhand by saying he's fine lynching Atog and undecided on AI. Waffles due to "conflicting ideas" and the fact that Battalion works better when more Boros are alive.
As someone who voted Sepiriel early on but apparently did not ping hawk's scumdar, I find this change of heart noteworthy. ZDS also points out in #237 that scummy Boros should still be lynched.
#213-214 - Responds to Proph by saying that he also gets bad vibes from dkingsland. Minimizes value of content re: AI, waffles some more.
hawk continues to poke around without doing much of anything.
#217 - Votes Atog. Expresses continued mistrust of snurfy.
A rather quick turnaround from voting snurfy in #201, just 16 posts before. The Atog wagon was really picking up steam at this point.
EVERYONE SHOULD READ #201-#221. Does anyone else feel that the way Proph pushed this wagon was highly suspect? Could be a bus. Also Vish asked for a vote count right before Obzedat was shown to be voting Atog. Nice claim.
#222 - Expresses confusion re: Obzedat.
Why bother? Fishing?
#240 - Asks snurfy why he FoS'd Atog instead of voting, despite snurfy explaining that he is Gruul in the same line.
scarbo and I immediately jump on this. It is at this point that I begin to find hawk's selective attention scummy.
Incidentally, Axelrod's #244 makes me want to lynch Taredas.
#245-246 - Challenges snurfy's use of the phrase "dangerously close to lynching," given that there were apparently only 5 votes on Atog at the time.
While hawk is technically correct, when it comes to the Gruul mechanic, I'm a firm believer in "better safe than sorry."
#259 - Believes scarbo to be scum for implicitly believing snurfy's reasoning for FoS. Wants others to remember the interaction should one of them flip scum, but thinks scarbo is scum even if snurfy is town.
Strong words. Why didn't he pursue this at the time and/or vote scarbo? Why didn't the FoS of his scumread snurfy deter him from being on the Atog wagon? We've got ourselves a live one.
#295 - Responds to AE by saying he does understand the Gruul mechanic but thinks that snurfy using it as an excuse not to vote is scummy. Expresses suspicion of snurfy, scarbo, and AE. Says he would be fine lynching Atog, dkingsland, snurfy, or scarbo.
He has a pretty long list of players he is willing to lynch but has yet to acknowledge that one is voting the other, something that would have given him pause on the Sepiriel wagon, but doesn't even register here.
#298 - Takes Cythare's "useless" "speculation" in the previous post seriously, and expresses interest in testing it.
Talk about terrible ideas. Hard to say if this plan is scummy or just plain dumb.
@ZDS: In the following post (#300), you question my push for Atog to claim (#292) but had nothing to say about Axelrod doing the same thing in #243. Why?
Part 2 coming soon.
Wrong idea is one thing, but to completely falsify the situation is another. You just come across as not wanting any attention coming your way.
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Ok fine. I'll leave you all with this....
From GOO mafia-
From this game-
Our mindsets are the same. Zindabad's not being truthful and I called him out on it. That's what has me hung up on AI. To ignore something someone says about you that is utterly untrue.
My vote will stay on either of these two.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I'm going to look back and see what you've said about Hawk prior. But look below, this had me laughing AI.
You explode on Sepiriel but ignore Zindabad. Your really not instilling any confidence in me.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Vote count (and prods etc.) to go up tomorrow morning. I'll probably be able to answer PMs, but nothing more in-depth than that.
Also, reminder that the deadline is on the 27th.
They hate us cause they ain't us.