Modgaming teaches us there should be 2 scum left with one in Orzhov (to make DCIII's ability work) and one in either Simic (would make KK's ability more interesting, but Taredas was pushing that) or Gruul.
Remaining scum should be Axelrod (with a tiny chance of Sepiriel) + 1 of {Scarbo; Vishamon; Huntzilla; Atogaholic; Zindabad; KillJoy}
It really ought to go without saying that "modgaming" is not a strong basis on which to proceed. Especially modgaming which says that one entire guild must have no scum because there should be two in Orzhov. And which also seems to assume 4 scum, which...I am not assuming.
I've been thinking about Orzhov, though, and the likelihood that there are (or should be) at least two scum in the guild.
The biggest problem, from a conceptual/game design standpoint, is actually dkings role. Here he is, a "Neutral" who has to kill all the Guildleaders to win. In your current conception of the game, this is actually a horrifically anti-town role. Giving the scum essentially free extra-shots at every guild leader - all of whom you consider to be Town. I have a problem with that, as I say, from a "game design" standpoint. How is this role "Neutral?"
In addition to that, there's the problem of "how does dkings even win, given the Obzedat role." This is a role outside the game. And dkings can't kill him. Wait, you say, how do you know this? Two things. First, is the piece of info that Obzedat told to me on N1 that I have not previously disclosed. It is this: he said he was unkillable. I.e. Could not be vigged. I assume that he can be lynched still, since votes for him show up. But he can't be night-killed. Moreover, I am virtually certain that dkings tried to shoot him on N1. Look at dkings first posts of the day on D2. First, he asked me this question:
Quote from dkingsland »
@Axelrod: Is Obzedat a hidden player, or is someone on the player list controlling it? You don't need to clarify beyond that
Then, he said this:
Quote from dkingsland »
I do not trust this Obzedat situation at all. I also have a strong reason to suspect it (them?) cannot be targeted by night actions, which means we can't leave it up to a potential vig to resolve it for us as several have suggested.
I'm positive he took a shot at "Obzedat" N1, because of his win condition, and because he guessed that the fact you could vote for Obzedat, meant you could target him too. But this kill failed.
Given that, how exactly was dkings going to win this game? The only answer, it appears, would be by convincing the Town to lynch Obzedat. He's got to convince the Town to lynch a non-posting entity, who - in your current conception of the game - is also Town. If Obzedat were scum, this might be conceivable. It would then be something the Town needed to do anyway in order to win, so not impossible for dkings. But if this were also a mis-lynch? Again with the anti-townness of this role. And seems like a rather tough win-condition that he's got little power over whether he can fulfill it or not.
Then there's this. If you believe DCIII and the way he's describing this role, "Obzedat" himself is neither Town nor scum. He's like a shell. Made up of whatever Orzhov have been lynched. But starting with DCIII, who claims he's Town. So, maybe Obzedat, though starting off controlled by "Town", can get controlled by scum later, and, then, presumably, it's no longer a "mis-lynch" to lynch him. But the Town is always going to know exactly when and if this happens. It happens when two scum Orzhov have been lynched and then suddenly DCIII shows up dead on the player list (in whatever role he really is that isn't Obzedat?) Then, DCIII tells us, this means that the scum are now in control of the Obzedat vote. And the Town immediately lynches Obzedat?
I don't know. It bugs me. Partly because there's no mystery or tension to this role if it's the way DCIII is describing. Partly because of dkings role. It seems almost more interesting if DCIII is scum. And then it seems like he could be the only scum in Orzhov.
I'm still putting this one on the backburner, because, really there's nothing much to be done. If I get lynched, the person you should next see come flying out of the Obzedat collective should be Taredas (assuming he hasn't shown up yet). And he presumably flips scum. If you don't see this, If you see, for instance, me come flying out of Obzedat. That's a sign that DCIII (and Tardeas) are both scum. If DCIII did, in fact, come out (which would not happen) and flipped as Town-something, then you would simply lynch Obzedat.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
That actually makes a lot of sense. It's almost impossible for Dkings to win with a town!DCIII as lynching is a town tool.
Maybe that's where the Dimir guildleader is hiding.
I'm warming to lynching Obzedat now.
At any rate, if Obzedat is scum, then we probably are still looking for 2 more scum.
I'm kind of waiting on two things before digging into the Taredas D3 lynch with the assumption that he was scum. (1) For Megs to come back and post a vote count and (2) For Taredas user profile to show he's been recently "active" on the site. It last shows him active a week ago. When those happen, and no Taredas alignment flip is forthcoming, then it seems reasonable to assume he was, in fact, scum.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
And, right on cue, there's the vote count. Love Curse. I don't see an Obzedat vote in there, which is interesting.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
well the fact that there is an Obzedat vote makes it possible that the vote itself is controlled by DCIII since he currently is the 'head' of the council
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So I'll look into Scar, Vish, and Atog tomrrow before D&D.
I wish i had a D&D group (T^T)
Are we sure there's one scum per guild?
We are not, we have no reason to believe this theory any more than the theory that thee is two in orzhov and none in Simic.
We COULD (and probably ASSUME) that there is at least 1 scum per guild (which could mean a 5 man scum team since 2 in orzhov is a very big draw right now) but the possibility of there being no one in Simic is just as valid as anything else.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I dont see how it works on Obzedat being only scum, i agree that dkings role required us to mislynch Obzedat if it indeed works as such BUT i dont think that means Obzedat HAD to start as a scum role, axel's soft push to lynching Obzedat worries me right now because if as written us lynching Obzedat only removes DCIII as the head of the council (honestly that's one thing im not understanding either).
You want a crazy ass theory that can get us done with this Orzhov bruhaha quickly? Lynch/Vig me toDay, i will have taredas voted out of the Council, then i will ask DCIII to vote himself out, once both bodies turn up (and DCIII flips town) you can get axel lynched and he can vote himself out of the council (to prove he was town). If my body turns up at any point then DCIII was scum and depending on whether we evicted taredas or not it would clear or not clear axel.
(yeah completeky bonkers and it costs us a day and at least one wasted lynch/vig but it's the best i can come up with)
There's one thing that bothers me with this voting out of Obzedat thing: if DCIII can be voted out, then he needs to be a card that can flip. He can't "be" the Ghost Council then.
I think people are getting hung up on the idea that DCIII represents the entire council, if you ask me DCIII represents 'Obzedat' not the council as a whole so im assuming he would flip as Obzedat but that in and of itself wouldnt dissolve the council
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
The Obzedat (the Ghost Council of Orzhova) is the ruling body of the Orzhov Syndicate. It consists of ghosts of the former Orzhov patriarchs and (though significantly less frequently) matriarchs, who ascended to the immortal ghost level. It resides deep under the Orzhov district in the central Ravnica. It is possible that the founders of the Obzedat were the Orzhov representatives who originally signed the Guildpact, or that they were just the ones who lived during that time. Membership of the Obzedat is granted for an excellent "performance" in life, but the entrance is subject to a probation period. The membership can be also canceled under exceptional conditions.
Known members of Obzedat included patriarchs Enezesku, Xil Xaxosz, Vuliev, and Karlov.
Yes, he signed as Obzedat. And those 4 aren't Gatecrash cards.
I'm pretty convinced that there's something wrong with what he's claiming.
Did he literally say he can get kicked out himself?
@Rhand:
hmm looking back on the messages again no it doesnt seem so, he did say that he can 'flip' (' ' mine for emphasis) if scum ever held majority in the council, which is why he suspected two scum in Orzhov. He also said he is confirmed town but thinking on it im not really sure how lest he told something to Axel which he hasnt told us yet.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
DCIII did not specifically sign his message to me as Obzedat. He actual words were that he (paraphrase) was in control of Obzedat, and that he was Town. Now, he didn't say anything about being someone else either. He did not say anything about who/what he would "flip" as if he got killed. His message to me said he couldn't be killed. I didn't know anything about the whole people joining and then being able to be voted out thing until Sep. brought it up yesterday.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Okay. Let's lynch someone else toDay (preferably Vishamon) and let DCIII clarify some stuff in his Night message.
He should claim exactly how his role works and what he will flip if we lynch him, and if lynching Obzedat ends the Ghost Council completely.
And he should send it to Axelrod. If scum wants to interfere with this, I rather have them kill him than Sepiriel.
Have you guys checked with the mod if it's forbidden to copy-paste DCIII's messages?
I'm struggling to see past having to kill Obzedat at some point. It's become a nebulous mechanical snarl and it will have to go. The problem is not wanting to waste a lynch on it.
As far as actual players go, I still think Vish is the scummiest. He's been low-content, never really responded to Atog's meta catch, and has generally not done anything of note. But on the other hand, Atog's claim seems bogus, and the main reason why I found him town on D1 was because AE appeared to be cliffpushing him - now that I no longer think AE is scum, that doesn't give him any points.
...But now that I bring AE up, I'm also having a hard time thinking of literally anything that he's done in this game.
As far as townies go, I'm pretty set on Sepiriel and Axelrod being town, as well as scarbo.
That actually makes a lot of sense. It's almost impossible for Dkings to win with a town!DCIII as lynching is a town tool.
Maybe that's where the Dimir guildleader is hiding.
I'm warming to lynching Obzedat now.
At any rate, if Obzedat is scum, then we probably are still looking for 2 more scum.
I agree with Axelrod's assessment and this statement by Rhand.
The one question have though is what if one of the guild leaders ISN'T town? What if Zinda is scum? Does that change the assessment of Dkings neutrality for you, Axel?
Hey axel just to clarify, you got your message directly from DCIII?
What? No. It came from the Mod. As I assume yours did.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Sepi and Axel are the only surviving Orzhov? I was thinking it unusual that Sepi got the message again but given that it's just the two of them left it makes sense.
Anyway, what doesn't make sense is why DCIII is fearmongering scum taking over the Obzedat. We don't know his/its alignment, so it's just as possible for town to decide to vote DCIII out, except that DCIII has managed to convince Cythare and Seppel to vote themselves out. Initially I thought that's just what town would do to give us a flip, but we really have no idea what goes on in there.
uhu, it would've been smart play to, if DCiii is indeed town, keep town in so they can vote scum out when they arrive and give us the important flips.
I'm getting more and more sure that that role is scum. Also, his reads list and he apparently sticking to it: he should've stopped voting Scarbo.
Hey axel just to clarify, you got your message directly from DCIII?
What? No. It came from the Mod. As I assume yours did.
Yes mine also came through Megs, just making sure.
@Rhand: if DCIII had kept the town players in the council (how would he know their alignments by the way?) we here wouldn't have had any information here until today, we NOW know that both cyth and Sep are town but we only know that because they voted themselve out of the council, we are working with alignment knowledge because the council did not do the 'smart' play, and because there was no way for DCIII to know the 'smart play' wouldnt result in him suddenly getting majority scum had we lynched right with cyth and sepp.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
As far as townies go, I'm pretty set on Sepiriel and Axelrod being town, as well as scarbo.
If Sep and Axelrod are both town, does that mean you think we have found the one and only scum from Orzhov in Taredas? If so, how do you reconcile that with DCIII's apparent paranoia about being voted out of the ghost council?
Sepi you're operating under the assumption that DCIII doesn't know Orzhov alignments.
Im operating under the assumption that no town player should know any other players alignment other than their own sans roles like masons or its variants, considering that DCIII has made no such claim i have then to assume that my primary assumption is correct.
Now with that assumption in mind i then make the further assumption that DCIII is town, something i have no way to verify because without a doc result to say otherwise i have to assume a scum role that has zero input on the game other than voting, can communicate freely at night with any one of the members of their guild and is apparently unkillable at night to be too damn broken balance wise to be an initially scum role (the caveat here is that the role CAN become scum aligned later but it balances itself out by the fact that it would require a weakening of the scum team as a whole).
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I don't really have any more to add. I still think axel is fine because of the effort and content, vish responds to pressure but not really in a meaningful way. More votes gogo
I'm okay with a Vishamon lynch. I'm kind of between him and Killjoy as the best options. Taredas is still showing as inactive, which means we don't have quite confirmation on his alignment yet, but even so.
I think the main reason not to pick Vish would be to not change the Simic Watcher ability. Looking at it again, if another Simic dies, it changes from a Watcher to a Tracker. Which is generally not as good, but still okay.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am fine with a Killjoy lynch for sure. I still believe there to be at least a scum per guild... but that is just my opinion. I have no evidence to point to this having to be true.
I am unsure of which Simic it is. I suppose Vish could be scum, as Scarbo has seemed a bit more townie toDay, and I do not believe Rhand is scum whatsoever.
I think the main reason not to lynch me is that after I flip town, I don't think it's going to help catch the scum in this game.
Im sorry but this is just so bad, i mean your whole defense is "welp once i flip we gain no info so you shouldnt lynch me" completely disregarding the fact that if you flip town it puts direct pressure on Scarbo and Atog, it also puts more pressure on Axel.
So by lynching you we have at least one incredibly strong scum read (scarbo), we strengthen the axel case and it also puts atog in a somewhat worse position, i wold say overall lynching you yields enough info, and if you DO flip scum it almost guarantees that scarbo and rhand are town, the only one that comes worse either way is atog since his push can be seen as busing (his is a bit of a catch 22 scenario).
@mod: votecount pls?
I'll vote vish once i know i wont accidentally put him on L-1 or Hammer range
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It really ought to go without saying that "modgaming" is not a strong basis on which to proceed. Especially modgaming which says that one entire guild must have no scum because there should be two in Orzhov. And which also seems to assume 4 scum, which...I am not assuming.
I've been thinking about Orzhov, though, and the likelihood that there are (or should be) at least two scum in the guild.
The biggest problem, from a conceptual/game design standpoint, is actually dkings role. Here he is, a "Neutral" who has to kill all the Guildleaders to win. In your current conception of the game, this is actually a horrifically anti-town role. Giving the scum essentially free extra-shots at every guild leader - all of whom you consider to be Town. I have a problem with that, as I say, from a "game design" standpoint. How is this role "Neutral?"
In addition to that, there's the problem of "how does dkings even win, given the Obzedat role." This is a role outside the game. And dkings can't kill him. Wait, you say, how do you know this? Two things. First, is the piece of info that Obzedat told to me on N1 that I have not previously disclosed. It is this: he said he was unkillable. I.e. Could not be vigged. I assume that he can be lynched still, since votes for him show up. But he can't be night-killed. Moreover, I am virtually certain that dkings tried to shoot him on N1. Look at dkings first posts of the day on D2. First, he asked me this question:
Then, he said this:
I'm positive he took a shot at "Obzedat" N1, because of his win condition, and because he guessed that the fact you could vote for Obzedat, meant you could target him too. But this kill failed.
Given that, how exactly was dkings going to win this game? The only answer, it appears, would be by convincing the Town to lynch Obzedat. He's got to convince the Town to lynch a non-posting entity, who - in your current conception of the game - is also Town. If Obzedat were scum, this might be conceivable. It would then be something the Town needed to do anyway in order to win, so not impossible for dkings. But if this were also a mis-lynch? Again with the anti-townness of this role. And seems like a rather tough win-condition that he's got little power over whether he can fulfill it or not.
Then there's this. If you believe DCIII and the way he's describing this role, "Obzedat" himself is neither Town nor scum. He's like a shell. Made up of whatever Orzhov have been lynched. But starting with DCIII, who claims he's Town. So, maybe Obzedat, though starting off controlled by "Town", can get controlled by scum later, and, then, presumably, it's no longer a "mis-lynch" to lynch him. But the Town is always going to know exactly when and if this happens. It happens when two scum Orzhov have been lynched and then suddenly DCIII shows up dead on the player list (in whatever role he really is that isn't Obzedat?) Then, DCIII tells us, this means that the scum are now in control of the Obzedat vote. And the Town immediately lynches Obzedat?
I don't know. It bugs me. Partly because there's no mystery or tension to this role if it's the way DCIII is describing. Partly because of dkings role. It seems almost more interesting if DCIII is scum. And then it seems like he could be the only scum in Orzhov.
I'm still putting this one on the backburner, because, really there's nothing much to be done. If I get lynched, the person you should next see come flying out of the Obzedat collective should be Taredas (assuming he hasn't shown up yet). And he presumably flips scum. If you don't see this, If you see, for instance, me come flying out of Obzedat. That's a sign that DCIII (and Tardeas) are both scum. If DCIII did, in fact, come out (which would not happen) and flipped as Town-something, then you would simply lynch Obzedat.
Maybe that's where the Dimir guildleader is hiding.
I'm warming to lynching Obzedat now.
At any rate, if Obzedat is scum, then we probably are still looking for 2 more scum.
Spaderesque Vote Count 4.1 (as of #1683)
Scarbo (2): Sepiriel, Obzedat
Vishamon (2): 7hawk77, Rhand
Atogaholic (2): Scarbo, Huntzilla
6 to lynch.
V/LA
N/A
Prod Watch
1. 77Hawk7 - 2
2. Archmage Eternal - 3
4. Atogaholic - 3
16. Killjoy - 2
20. zindabad - 3
Prods will be issued Monday night as usual.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Who got Obzedat's message last night?
Are we sure there's one scum per guild?
We are not, we have no reason to believe this theory any more than the theory that thee is two in orzhov and none in Simic.
We COULD (and probably ASSUME) that there is at least 1 scum per guild (which could mean a 5 man scum team since 2 in orzhov is a very big draw right now) but the possibility of there being no one in Simic is just as valid as anything else.
You want a crazy ass theory that can get us done with this Orzhov bruhaha quickly? Lynch/Vig me toDay, i will have taredas voted out of the Council, then i will ask DCIII to vote himself out, once both bodies turn up (and DCIII flips town) you can get axel lynched and he can vote himself out of the council (to prove he was town). If my body turns up at any point then DCIII was scum and depending on whether we evicted taredas or not it would clear or not clear axel.
(yeah completeky bonkers and it costs us a day and at least one wasted lynch/vig but it's the best i can come up with)
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So Obzedat is the Ghost Council.
If your hung-up is that DCIII has referenced himself as 'Obzedat' and not a specific patriarch then thats a different matter entirely.
I'm pretty convinced that there's something wrong with what he's claiming.
Did he literally say he can get kicked out himself?
hmm looking back on the messages again no it doesnt seem so, he did say that he can 'flip' (' ' mine for emphasis) if scum ever held majority in the council, which is why he suspected two scum in Orzhov. He also said he is confirmed town but thinking on it im not really sure how lest he told something to Axel which he hasnt told us yet.
He should claim exactly how his role works and what he will flip if we lynch him, and if lynching Obzedat ends the Ghost Council completely.
And he should send it to Axelrod. If scum wants to interfere with this, I rather have them kill him than Sepiriel.
Have you guys checked with the mod if it's forbidden to copy-paste DCIII's messages?
Seriously dislike the idea of having DCIII send a message to axel considering he suspects Axel to be scum tho.
As far as actual players go, I still think Vish is the scummiest. He's been low-content, never really responded to Atog's meta catch, and has generally not done anything of note. But on the other hand, Atog's claim seems bogus, and the main reason why I found him town on D1 was because AE appeared to be cliffpushing him - now that I no longer think AE is scum, that doesn't give him any points.
...But now that I bring AE up, I'm also having a hard time thinking of literally anything that he's done in this game.
As far as townies go, I'm pretty set on Sepiriel and Axelrod being town, as well as scarbo.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I agree with Axelrod's assessment and this statement by Rhand.
The one question have though is what if one of the guild leaders ISN'T town? What if Zinda is scum? Does that change the assessment of Dkings neutrality for you, Axel?
What? No. It came from the Mod. As I assume yours did.
Anyway, what doesn't make sense is why DCIII is fearmongering scum taking over the Obzedat. We don't know his/its alignment, so it's just as possible for town to decide to vote DCIII out, except that DCIII has managed to convince Cythare and Seppel to vote themselves out. Initially I thought that's just what town would do to give us a flip, but we really have no idea what goes on in there.
I'm getting more and more sure that that role is scum. Also, his reads list and he apparently sticking to it: he should've stopped voting Scarbo.
@Rhand: if DCIII had kept the town players in the council (how would he know their alignments by the way?) we here wouldn't have had any information here until today, we NOW know that both cyth and Sep are town but we only know that because they voted themselve out of the council, we are working with alignment knowledge because the council did not do the 'smart' play, and because there was no way for DCIII to know the 'smart play' wouldnt result in him suddenly getting majority scum had we lynched right with cyth and sepp.
If Sep and Axelrod are both town, does that mean you think we have found the one and only scum from Orzhov in Taredas? If so, how do you reconcile that with DCIII's apparent paranoia about being voted out of the ghost council?
Now with that assumption in mind i then make the further assumption that DCIII is town, something i have no way to verify because without a doc result to say otherwise i have to assume a scum role that has zero input on the game other than voting, can communicate freely at night with any one of the members of their guild and is apparently unkillable at night to be too damn broken balance wise to be an initially scum role (the caveat here is that the role CAN become scum aligned later but it balances itself out by the fact that it would require a weakening of the scum team as a whole).
We should just lynch the caught scum and then go from there
Outdated Mafia Stats
I think the main reason not to pick Vish would be to not change the Simic Watcher ability. Looking at it again, if another Simic dies, it changes from a Watcher to a Tracker. Which is generally not as good, but still okay.
Post number 1709
I am fine with a Killjoy lynch for sure. I still believe there to be at least a scum per guild... but that is just my opinion. I have no evidence to point to this having to be true.
I am unsure of which Simic it is. I suppose Vish could be scum, as Scarbo has seemed a bit more townie toDay, and I do not believe Rhand is scum whatsoever.
That's your whole defense? Why should we even believe that you're going to flip town?
Who are the scum?
So by lynching you we have at least one incredibly strong scum read (scarbo), we strengthen the axel case and it also puts atog in a somewhat worse position, i wold say overall lynching you yields enough info, and if you DO flip scum it almost guarantees that scarbo and rhand are town, the only one that comes worse either way is atog since his push can be seen as busing (his is a bit of a catch 22 scenario).
@mod: votecount pls?
I'll vote vish once i know i wont accidentally put him on L-1 or Hammer range
Scarbo (1): Sepiriel, Obzedat
Vishamon (4): 7hawk77, Rhand, Archmage Eternal, Atogaholic
Atogaholic (2): Scarbo, Huntzilla
6 to lynch.
Prods (if needed) issued as soon as I get home from the office today. I don't think anybody needs one though!
Sorry, will try to do something tomorrow morning. So much work recently again. Damn it.