It pseudo-clears based on behavior, not guild-counting. If Taredas is scum, I don't see scum!Sepiriel falsely posting that alleged Obzedat message - and I don't see scum!Obzedat sending Sepiriel that message. And if Sepiriel is town, I don't see scum!Axelrod coming in here to back Sep up on the DCIII signature on Obzedat messages.
I agree with the Sepriel analysis, but not the Axelrod one. Axel posted that "He claimed his identity" and if Axel is scum, and someone were to investigate that and wonder what that meant if not that he claimed to be DCIII... basically I don't think Axel had a choice if he wished to not appear as scum in that instance.
If we need to finalize a lynch and have to make it Gruul i have no problem with going for Atog, I prefer a Taredas lynch as i have said time and again and will keep my vote there in the meantime in case miracles do come true and you all decide to go with this now. I doubt you have need of my vote anyways we still have more than enough gruul anyways.
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@KJ: You talk about how an annonymous/hidden voter is not that strong in the scum team but how do reconcile that with the knowledge that they also likely have a conditional double voter in the Gruul clan?
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@Huntz: small nitpick but i think we should just work under the assumption that Zinda "should" be town, having Seppel killed is not a town clear by anymeans, considering how Seppel is i can see a scum team actively sacrificing him in order to gain town points, specially now that we have Simic's Cop ability is neutered.
Are you referring to the Gruul ability? If scum have someone in my clan, then they cannot control the amount their vote costs. They have to convince other Gruuls to get on the wagon for their vote to be considered a multivote. Also the second vote has to be on the same person. It's more limited than a standard double vote.
I also don't recall saying a double vote is not that strong in the scumteam. Doublevotes are amazing in the scum team. This one specifically is hampered by the ability to vote it, thereby removing it from play. I could see wcum having a literal double vote if that second vote could be dealt with. That's why I'm guessing he has a mandatory vote.
Actually:
By lynching teredas it gives us info on orzhov, obzedat and sepriel.
If I was scum and was in a clan, I'd try and get lynches in other clans so i could continue blending in to the clan. The fact that obzedat wants him dead means I trust that he is actually scum hunting.
The second thing makes sense only if there's one scum per clan. We don't know that's the case yet.
Why do people not see how Obzedat is scum? If Tare is scum, then he's probably bussing. Tare has been scummy as hell today. That claim, followed by that lurking? I'm willing to end the day on a Tare lynch, but can we talk about Obzedat?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Oh. IDK how I missed that.
Why would he vote himself that time then? That makes no sense.
Wait... did someone ask him to vote himself to answer a question or something?
Mod: Is that a mistake? Should Obzedat be voting there?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Guys I really doubt Taredas is scum. Like what scum mindset could possibly explain just deciding to come out with a weak fakeclaim when under the slight amount of pressure he was under at the time. He'd have to be a comically inept children's movie villain IRL to make a move like that as scum.
In any case, I'd like for him to claim the flavor that he says he received N1.
Wait... did someone ask him to vote himself to answer a question or something?
That was me. Obzedat voted himself to confirm that he caused the reveal on Cythare's alignment. That's a big part of the reason I think Obzedat is town - revealing the alignment of town orzhov players is a townie thing to do and he wasn't cc'd on it. I have to admit though believing that he really is DCIII seems like a stretch to me..
Bottom line is there's just no way Vish didn't have his experience from that game in mind when mentioning pro-town neutral claims.
I can understand the logic in waiting to lynch him because of the tracker ability, but lynching vish is still > > > lynching taredas. The chances of the ability managing to go off are actually pretty low since because of the massclaim the scum know there's only 2 people who can have it, and they do apparently have a roleblock. I think using the simic ability is still worth trying for, but not at the cost of what I think is a certain mislynch.
Having doubts about the KillJoy read again. The fact he simply misses that gruul scum can hammer a wagon with other gruul on it who happen to be wrong seems very townie.
KamikazeArchon has been killed. Here is his role PM:
You are Aurelia, the Warleader, the guildmaster of the Boros Legion
Abilities:
1. You may vote.
2. Battalion: Each Night, you may target another player. If at least one other Boros player targets that same person with Battalion, the target will be protected in some fashion. More Boros results in stronger protection:
Two: Protect from the first killing ability, but if that player is targeted to be killed, one of the Boros players (chosen at random) will die instead.
Three: Protect from the first killing ability.
Four+: Protect from all abilities.
3. You begin the game with 4 points. Whenever a town player dies, you gain a point.
4. Legion's Initiative: Each Night that you are using Battallion, you may spend X points. X Boros players that are already using Battalion on a different player, chosen at random, will target the player you chose instead. If you overspend points, they will be wasted. (Boros players who are already targeting the player you chose will be excluded from the randomization, as will Boros players who are not using Battalion for whatever reason.)
5. When you die, I will give you a list of other living Boros players, but not their alignments. Choose one of them. That player will gain the following ability: "Target another player at Night. If that player is targeted to be killed, instead you will die, and so will the killer."
*Note: In order to keep the game moving, ability #5 is currently pending. I will make a note when it has resolved.
It is now Day 4. With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59 PM ET on Saturday, May 16th
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ok guys im back, DCIII shared a few things with me that i should mention now.
Apparently there is a 50 word limit to his messages (today's message was 48 words, yesterdays was exactly 50).
Whenever an Orzhov dies he/she joins the Council, the Council is then able to vote members 'Out' (thereby having their alignments revealed), Cyth and Seppel both voted themselves out, this explains why DCIII stated yesterday that if he was revealed we should assume that any dead Orzhov should be scum.
According to DCIII this mechanic is the reason why there MUST be two scum in Orzhov, he thinks its Axel.
DCIII's Lynch recommendation: Scarbo.
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At this point in time whichever you guys believe to be scum between axel and I, one thing is for sure, unless Taredas votes himself and reveals himself as town we have to assume he is scum, by extension you should NOT lynch Orzhov until we can ensure the remaining scum is found, for a simple reason, if we mislynch town we are loosing one vote, but if we lynch scum they will remove DCIII and control the vote thereby ensuring the scum maintains a vote until end game, we also then lose DCIII's input from the game.
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@Gruul: if you really want to do something dumb but which is sure to reveal all the Orzhov kill me right now, ill get Taredas voted out of the Council and then you can lynch Axel after Taredas body turns up (yeah not optimal but its a plan...)
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@Rhand: It is possible the ability Kami grants is also an ability he had and which he effectively used?
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Considering scarbo is pushing for Atog but DCIII wants scarbo dead i dont think i want to be part of that wagon.
/vote Scarbo
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ah yes, I get the meaning of that weird "stark" question now.
I don't really love the progressive slow-roll from DCIII - if he was town and worried about a scum takeover of his role, he should've outed how it worked on N2.
Of the members left. My guess for scum in each guild is:
Killjoy for Gruul if
Scarbo is for Simic and
Axelrod regardless
OR
Atog for Gruul if
Vishamon is for Simic and
Axelrod regardless.
These are the only two ways I see this shaking out at this time.
I cannot see a scum Scarbo busing his buddy Atog the way that he has been going for Atog forever. That is why if Scarbo is scum like DCIII thinks than his Gruul buddy has to be Killjoy.
Gruul: I no longer believe KJ to be scum. I still feel uneasy about Zindabad. Atog still is a possibility too, regardless of Scarbo's flip. Scarbo is in a position that even if they're both scum he can't really back off of Atog anymore. I just realized that my Huntzilla read is kind of null. (actually lean town but don't remember why). I'll fix that.
Boros: both probably town but they should claim their targets of last Night.
Simic: with Taredas being most probably scum now (I believe Sepi), I'm not so sure anymore that there has to be scum in Simic. He was really selling that. If there is scum there, I lean Scarbo > Vishamon
Orzhov: Axelrod most probably scum. can a numbercruncher calculate how bad it is for us if we lynch scum and move dciii's vote to scum hands by doing that? I'm not convinced that that is a problem.
Well, while I can't exactly blame people for looking at me at this point, given my detachment, the fact remains I'm not any kind of scum, so, there's still some solving to do.
I don't quite understand the Obzedat information. Obzedat is (presumably) already a member of the "Counsel" (or, flavor-fully, he is the Counsel). When we die, we "join" the Counsel. Which does...what? We have the Obzedat vote? Is this vote some kind of a Majority rules ability? And then we then have the ability to vote "out" other people who are in it? By, like, another Majority vote? And when voted out alignment is revealed? So Cythare, and Seppel immediately vote themselves out (presumably Obzedat is joining in these votes?) And if Taredas does NOT immediately do the same, we can assume he's scum. Then, if Two scum end up joining the Counsel, they could vote out Obzedat himself? And then they would be controlling the Obzedat vote? Am I understanding this correctly?
If there's one scum and one Town in the Counsel right now, can they vote? Obzedat, can you vote? Vote me if you can. Then, DCIII, unvote if it's you solely controlling the vote, and just keep it on for a while if the vote has to be via a majority or an agreement.
I'm going to do a full voting analysis, for the first time this game. I know, I know. I'll do it assuming Taredas was scum, until revealed otherwise. That will go up probably no later than tomorrow.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Actually, I'm not sure that works to tell if it's truly a Majority vote or if it's just DCIII controlling the vote, but it's something.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Well, while I can't exactly blame people for looking at me at this point, given my detachment, the fact remains I'm not any kind of scum, so, there's still some solving to do.
You will have to forgive if we take whatever you say at this point with at least some modicum of salt.
I don't quite understand the Obzedat information.
Since im the one with the last two PM's ill be the one to provide rationale i suppose, in part it almost seems like you are indirectly asking me for clarification.
Obzedat is (presumably) already a member of the "Counsel" (or, flavor-fully, he is the Counsel).
I would consider him to be THE member, that is to say the spokesperson or majority share holder if you will.
When we die, we "join" the Counsel. Which does...what?
We become one of the share holder i would assume[/quote]
We have the Obzedat vote?
No i doubt that, i cant verify that tho.
Is this vote some kind of a Majority rules ability?
Like i said im not sure on this part.
And then we then have the ability to vote "out" other people who are in it?
Yes, by voting themselves out the bodies are found and their alignments are revealed. this requires i would assume majority decision.
By, like, another Majority vote? And when voted out alignment is revealed? So Cythare, and Seppel immediately vote themselves out (presumably Obzedat is joining in these votes?) And if Taredas does NOT immediately do the same, we can assume he's scum.
Yep
Then, if Two scum end up joining the Counsel, they could vote out Obzedat himself?
Im assuming that the more correct erm would be that they can vote DCIII out and take control of the Obzedat vote.
And then they would be controlling the Obzedat vote? Am I understanding this correctly?
With very few nitpicks i would say you got most of the gist right.
If there's one scum and one Town in the Counsel right now, can they vote?
This part im not sure on.
I'm going to do a full voting analysis, for the first time this game. I know, I know. I'll do it assuming Taredas was scum, until revealed otherwise. That will go up probably no later than tomorrow.
The analysis or the Taredas reveal?
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Again, flavor-fully, I don't get Obzedat being voted out of himself. And yet the Obzedat vote still existing. Even if the players are voting for "DCIII" as opposed to "Obzedat", who then is DCIII? Does he have another role, which is the role he gets "revealed" as when he gets voted out? There's some computational issues there.
What I'm going to do is a voting analysis of the various lynches. I'm going to assume Taredas is scum, unless something happens that reveals otherwise. I'm going to at least try and look at it from a purely "behavioral" standpoint, as opposed to assuming anything based on who claimed what or what guild someone is in. See what that shows.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Again, flavor-fully, I don't get Obzedat being voted out of himself. And yet the Obzedat vote still existing. Even if the players are voting for "DCIII" as opposed to "Obzedat", who then is DCIII? Does he have another role, which is the role he gets "revealed" as when he gets voted out? There's some computational issues there.
What I'm going to do is a voting analysis of the various lynches. I'm going to assume Taredas is scum, unless something happens that reveals otherwise. I'm going to at least try and look at it from a purely "behavioral" standpoint, as opposed to assuming anything based on who claimed what or what guild someone is in. See what that shows.
If you are doubting DCIII as being Obzedat then you shouldnt since he has been cleared by another player by virtue of personal information only DCIII should have.
As for where he stands mechanically i would assume he would just be revealed as DCIII as for what card flavor wise he would occupy i dont know thats the mod and we are treading into flavor-gaming territory, which i've been told is a waste of time.
What i DO know is what he told me, DCIII can be voted out of the Council by a majority vote of the council members, which is what Cyth and Seppel did resulting in their alignment reveal, i would assume from what he has said that the Council is not disbanded but rather a new member takes over a spokesperson, no idea on whether the voting requires majority vote consensus as well or what.
I honestly dont know how a VCA works on an entity with zero input on the game outside of the message they shared with you and me on the last 3 Nights but i admit VCA as a whole is something i dont quite grasp and consider beyond me.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
All right, so, this is just the baseline information. This is obviously not a complete picture, especially the D2 Lynch which happened very quickly after a Cop reveal, but I think useful to have it all laid out in one place. The Colors represent what we supposedly know:
Not Voting: Atogaholic, Axelrod, Taredas, Vishamon, Zindabad
I'm not trying to draw any conclusions yet. I think a couple of things are worth noting initially. 7hawk77 has a very strong voting record, has been on all the known scum lynches and no Town lynches. Obzedat has a very strong record (same as 7Hawk's). Vishamon hasn't been present for any of these lynches. The Seppel Lynch (another hard to quantify one because of Zindabad's use of ability to end it) still has 6 unknowns voting for him. Could that have been an all-town driven lynch?
The next thing to do, though, besides laying out the naked votes, is try and dig in a bit more. What were the stated reasons for said votes. Who was waggoning, who wasn't. Who was arguing against a given lynch. That kind of thing. Which just takes forever, unfortunately, in a thread this size.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Maybe I'm giving 7Hawk and Obzedat a little too much credit there, since "all the known scum lynches" is actually just Taredas + the Cop revealed ZDS. But still. Anyone voting ZDS before the Cop reveal would look better, I think. I don't know who (if anyone) that was yet.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Killjoy may have the poorest straight-up lynch record. He was on Cythare D1, Seppel D2, and me D3 (no one else can credit this last one, sure, but I can). His only "correct" wagon was the Cop-revealed ZDS, which isn't really that significant.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
vote Taredas
Are you referring to the Gruul ability? If scum have someone in my clan, then they cannot control the amount their vote costs. They have to convince other Gruuls to get on the wagon for their vote to be considered a multivote. Also the second vote has to be on the same person. It's more limited than a standard double vote.
I also don't recall saying a double vote is not that strong in the scumteam. Doublevotes are amazing in the scum team. This one specifically is hampered by the ability to vote it, thereby removing it from play. I could see wcum having a literal double vote if that second vote could be dealt with. That's why I'm guessing he has a mandatory vote.
Actually: He's voting himself here. No reason to do that if he could just not vote.
Also, he;s always voting someone. Check all the votecounts. He is.
The second thing makes sense only if there's one scum per clan. We don't know that's the case yet.
Why do people not see how Obzedat is scum? If Tare is scum, then he's probably bussing. Tare has been scummy as hell today. That claim, followed by that lurking? I'm willing to end the day on a Tare lynch, but can we talk about Obzedat?
Why would he vote himself that time then? That makes no sense.
Wait... did someone ask him to vote himself to answer a question or something?
Mod: Is that a mistake? Should Obzedat be voting there?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Admin post:
I Can Confirm post 650 was one of Megiddo's
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Unvote
Vote Taredas
In any case, I'd like for him to claim the flavor that he says he received N1.
vote DCIII
It's worth a shot
Unvote
Vote: Atogaholic
>What Obzedat is doing is towny
>DCIII is Obzedat
>DCIII is scum
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/qjjEsRp2anv - Spec chat from CF3. Relevant posts are 30, 70, 88
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/8H4nyvsPEgK - Scum chat from CF3. Relevant posts are 93, 181, 198-203
Bottom line is there's just no way Vish didn't have his experience from that game in mind when mentioning pro-town neutral claims.
I can understand the logic in waiting to lynch him because of the tracker ability, but lynching vish is still > > > lynching taredas. The chances of the ability managing to go off are actually pretty low since because of the massclaim the scum know there's only 2 people who can have it, and they do apparently have a roleblock. I think using the simic ability is still worth trying for, but not at the cost of what I think is a certain mislynch.
Having doubts about the KillJoy read again. The fact he simply misses that gruul scum can hammer a wagon with other gruul on it who happen to be wrong seems very townie.
Taredas (7): Sepiriel, 7hawk77, KamikazeArchon, Archmage Eternal, Huntzilla, Rhand, Obzedat
Atogaholic (1): scarbo
Axelrod (1): Killjoy
---
Taredas has been lynched. He was Basilica Guards, a member of the Orzhov Syndicate
It is now Night. Day four will begin in 72 hours or so. Don't be late with your Night actions—I won't acknowledge them if you are.
*Note: In order to keep the game moving, ability #5 is currently pending. I will make a note when it has resolved.
It is now Day 4. With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!
Deadline is 11:59 PM ET on Saturday, May 16th
@KJ: is the answer to your question: First letters spelled STARK?
Going out, ill be back in the evening to post fully, Im expecting Taredas to flip scum later and if he does Axel is likely scum.
I repeat do not vote Obzedat i have pertinent info i need to share, but im really short on time.
KJ,
I must have missed something. How do you know this?
let's lynch Atog now
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Apparently there is a 50 word limit to his messages (today's message was 48 words, yesterdays was exactly 50).
Whenever an Orzhov dies he/she joins the Council, the Council is then able to vote members 'Out' (thereby having their alignments revealed), Cyth and Seppel both voted themselves out, this explains why DCIII stated yesterday that if he was revealed we should assume that any dead Orzhov should be scum.
According to DCIII this mechanic is the reason why there MUST be two scum in Orzhov, he thinks its Axel.
DCIII's Lynch recommendation: Scarbo.
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At this point in time whichever you guys believe to be scum between axel and I, one thing is for sure, unless Taredas votes himself and reveals himself as town we have to assume he is scum, by extension you should NOT lynch Orzhov until we can ensure the remaining scum is found, for a simple reason, if we mislynch town we are loosing one vote, but if we lynch scum they will remove DCIII and control the vote thereby ensuring the scum maintains a vote until end game, we also then lose DCIII's input from the game.
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@Gruul: if you really want to do something dumb but which is sure to reveal all the Orzhov kill me right now, ill get Taredas voted out of the Council and then you can lynch Axel after Taredas body turns up (yeah not optimal but its a plan...)
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@Rhand: It is possible the ability Kami grants is also an ability he had and which he effectively used?
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Considering scarbo is pushing for Atog but DCIII wants scarbo dead i dont think i want to be part of that wagon.
/vote Scarbo
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I don't really love the progressive slow-roll from DCIII - if he was town and worried about a scum takeover of his role, he should've outed how it worked on N2.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Unvote
Vote Scarbo
The reamining guilds and members:
Gruul
Boros
Simic
Orzhov
Of the members left. My guess for scum in each guild is:
Killjoy for Gruul if
Scarbo is for Simic and
Axelrod regardless
OR
Atog for Gruul if
Vishamon is for Simic and
Axelrod regardless.
These are the only two ways I see this shaking out at this time.
I cannot see a scum Scarbo busing his buddy Atog the way that he has been going for Atog forever. That is why if Scarbo is scum like DCIII thinks than his Gruul buddy has to be Killjoy.
I see no reason 1) for Boros to answer this or 2) why they should have in the first place.
Boros: both probably town but they should claim their targets of last Night.
Simic: with Taredas being most probably scum now (I believe Sepi), I'm not so sure anymore that there has to be scum in Simic. He was really selling that. If there is scum there, I lean Scarbo > Vishamon
Orzhov: Axelrod most probably scum. can a numbercruncher calculate how bad it is for us if we lynch scum and move dciii's vote to scum hands by doing that? I'm not convinced that that is a problem.
I don't quite understand the Obzedat information. Obzedat is (presumably) already a member of the "Counsel" (or, flavor-fully, he is the Counsel). When we die, we "join" the Counsel. Which does...what? We have the Obzedat vote? Is this vote some kind of a Majority rules ability? And then we then have the ability to vote "out" other people who are in it? By, like, another Majority vote? And when voted out alignment is revealed? So Cythare, and Seppel immediately vote themselves out (presumably Obzedat is joining in these votes?) And if Taredas does NOT immediately do the same, we can assume he's scum. Then, if Two scum end up joining the Counsel, they could vote out Obzedat himself? And then they would be controlling the Obzedat vote? Am I understanding this correctly?
If there's one scum and one Town in the Counsel right now, can they vote? Obzedat, can you vote? Vote me if you can. Then, DCIII, unvote if it's you solely controlling the vote, and just keep it on for a while if the vote has to be via a majority or an agreement.
I'm going to do a full voting analysis, for the first time this game. I know, I know. I'll do it assuming Taredas was scum, until revealed otherwise. That will go up probably no later than tomorrow.
Since im the one with the last two PM's ill be the one to provide rationale i suppose, in part it almost seems like you are indirectly asking me for clarification.
I would consider him to be THE member, that is to say the spokesperson or majority share holder if you will.
We become one of the share holder i would assume[/quote]
No i doubt that, i cant verify that tho.
Like i said im not sure on this part.
Yes, by voting themselves out the bodies are found and their alignments are revealed. this requires i would assume majority decision.
Yep
Im assuming that the more correct erm would be that they can vote DCIII out and take control of the Obzedat vote.
With very few nitpicks i would say you got most of the gist right.
This part im not sure on.
The analysis or the Taredas reveal?
What I'm going to do is a voting analysis of the various lynches. I'm going to assume Taredas is scum, unless something happens that reveals otherwise. I'm going to at least try and look at it from a purely "behavioral" standpoint, as opposed to assuming anything based on who claimed what or what guild someone is in. See what that shows.
If you are doubting DCIII as being Obzedat then you shouldnt since he has been cleared by another player by virtue of personal information only DCIII should have.
As for where he stands mechanically i would assume he would just be revealed as DCIII as for what card flavor wise he would occupy i dont know thats the mod and we are treading into flavor-gaming territory, which i've been told is a waste of time.
What i DO know is what he told me, DCIII can be voted out of the Council by a majority vote of the council members, which is what Cyth and Seppel did resulting in their alignment reveal, i would assume from what he has said that the Council is not disbanded but rather a new member takes over a spokesperson, no idea on whether the voting requires majority vote consensus as well or what.
I honestly dont know how a VCA works on an entity with zero input on the game outside of the message they shared with you and me on the last 3 Nights but i admit VCA as a whole is something i dont quite grasp and consider beyond me.
I'm not trying to draw any conclusions yet. I think a couple of things are worth noting initially. 7hawk77 has a very strong voting record, has been on all the known scum lynches and no Town lynches. Obzedat has a very strong record (same as 7Hawk's). Vishamon hasn't been present for any of these lynches. The Seppel Lynch (another hard to quantify one because of Zindabad's use of ability to end it) still has 6 unknowns voting for him. Could that have been an all-town driven lynch?
The next thing to do, though, besides laying out the naked votes, is try and dig in a bit more. What were the stated reasons for said votes. Who was waggoning, who wasn't. Who was arguing against a given lynch. That kind of thing. Which just takes forever, unfortunately, in a thread this size.
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Why is zinda town? Did I miss something?
@AE
Who did you target? Did you get redirected?
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vote Vishamon
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Pretty sure the scum team is Atog then the last is either vish or axel. Something like that...
I could see multiple scum getting placed in orzhov to control the council and vote.
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