Scum post is scummy. Cool logic and justification are tools for Scum, not Town. Also, I play almost exclusively on vibes. Get used to it.
I understand that if you want to play a lot of mafia, there's a certain amount of deliberate misplay that goes into being a townie just so you don't get nightkilled every Night 1. That doesn't mean cool logic and justification are actually bad, though. It just means that most good analysts won't survive to the endgame.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
This post is kind of bad. Snurfy Votes TCM Saying his idea is bad... but Then goes along with Puddle Jumper instead... Lets see their analysis of me:
It is stating that TCM is Town..ish. THAT is what it takes to change your mind on him? Forget Puddle's "PBPA" On me... your jump litereally happened because Puddle Said tcm did a genreally townie thing. So his scumminess is... null and void to you?
Explain. Now.
We were in RVS, I was making a joke about three things:
1. The fact three pages worth of content had popped up while I was asleep.
2. The fact TCM had proposed a nolynch very early on.
3. The fact that puddlejumper made an extensive analysis using very few posts.
My votes weren't votes votes, I was using them to punctuate, if you will, my comments.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people are so riled up by my post. I make a joke about puddlejumper's analysis and I'm suddenly his scumbuddy?
@Hunger: I played a few games on another site, but that was a long time ago. I've not played here before.
Antny reads as a little trigger-happy to me. He jumped all over Seperiel for...skimming? Sep got really defensive after he did, though, which unnerves me.
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I have to say, I am a huge fan of quick days, but even I have to have a little more input into the thread before I will jump on the no lynch bandwagon. I don't particularly like the idea of letting the scum get "free" kills by no lynching though. Can we revisit the idea in a few more pages?
No lynching is a bad idea, but he's open to it. He voices some concerns, but sets himself up to go either way.
Quote from Killjoy »
I would like to say though, the reason I voted him had nothing to do with his vote on Chris. It's a completely different tell... one I'll keep to myself for now to see if he keeps doing it.
No lynch? Certainly not, that's absurd. No I've just noticed town tends to jump on very poor things early in games. I am asking for people to be more aware of the pitfalls. Caution in sorting stupid froms ***, as it were.
I hadn't even read TCM's posts when I made my first post, by the way.
"forms ***"
But rather than complaining about towns being bad, you wanna help sort the scum out?
How dare you guys fill the thread with 3 pages while I slept! People are already doing text walls and quotes!
TCM's plan seems kinda stupid- suggesting a nolynch barely 12 hours in is pretty weird. Vote:TheColdMonarch.
Puddlejumper has done an PBPA on Rodemy's, what, four posts? He convinced me of his scumminess pretty well though... Unvote, Vote:Rodemy
Does "Weird" mean scum?
In your own words, what makes Rodemy scum?
Do you remember in Office Space where that guy had the game called jumping to conclusions I like how that's what Rodemy did. Boy did he jump off the vagueness of my first post and just attack with great vengeance. I have learned scum can be pretty bad so I guess it doesn't town clear him but I like the gusto of just making up an attack and going with it.
Clarification again: I will literally never support a no lynch, I just want to refine the way we do day ones to get better results. NL can rot.
I like how (and this version of like is the bad like btw, as in I don't like it. I am weird sometimes with my wording) Rodemy votes for me for something I didn't say when TCM in fact did say it. God that's so sick if he is that bad as scum. This is the worst for me, because bad scum always sneak by me but god he is so oblivious in these posts can he be scum? Who has played with Rodemy before, I need some information on this guy.
So... he's so bad that he's probably town, but you dunno because bad scum tend to get past you?
This is a waffley mess.
Quote from Puddle Jumper »
@ITF: I think there are plenty of players trying to fill the randomlol space in this game. Sepiriel, Huntzilla, Sir Chris. The fact that Rod voted for one person when he could have voted for another doesn't mean a whole lot to me until we get out of Day 1 and have a little bit of info to go on. There are plenty of role-based reasons as both town and scum that could influence his vote, or very possibly he just wasn't reading carefully enough. More important are his stated motivations in actually spending his vote and how cleanly they line up with someone who doesn't want to be the center of attention.
I don't see him not wanting to be the center of attention though. He voted Sir Chris pretty hard, so if he's trying to not be the center of attention... he's not exactly doing a great job.
I agree that looking at links probably isn't productive right now; if one of them flips scum we can come back to it.
~
On Antny/Cythare/Sepiriel: I see where Antny is coming from on Sepiriel, it's a little scummy to make excuses like that, but it's early enough that it's not a big deal. If Sepiriel had made that post later on, or had made that post then lurked for a few days, it would've been worse.
Cythare is probably town. I see his reasoning, and I don't think he would say he agreed with Antny... then vote him if he were scum. It's just about the weirdest thing you could do. His motivation makes more sense if he's town saying all of his thoughts regarding Antny/Sepiriel.
We were in RVS, I was making a joke about three things:
1. The fact three pages worth of content had popped up while I was asleep.
2. The fact TCM had proposed a nolynch very early on.
3. The fact that puddlejumper made an extensive analysis using very few posts.
My votes weren't votes votes, I was using them to punctuate, if you will, my comments.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people are so riled up by my post. I make a joke about puddlejumper's analysis and I'm suddenly his scumbuddy?
@Hunger: I played a few games on another site, but that was a long time ago. I've not played here before.
Antny reads as a little trigger-happy to me. He jumped all over Seperiel for...skimming? Sep got really defensive after he did, though, which unnerves me.
How dare you guys fill the thread with 3 pages while I slept! People are already doing text walls and quotes!
TCM's plan seems kinda stupid- suggesting a nolynch barely 12 hours in is pretty weird. Vote:TheColdMonarch.
Puddlejumper has done an PBPA on Rodemy's, what, four posts? He convinced me of his scumminess pretty well though... Unvote, Vote:Rodemy
The first line sounds like a joke. The second line could be a joke, but saying the plan is stupid and that he's weird makes it sound like you're calling him scum.
The third sentence is not a joke. "He convinced me of his scumminess" and then voting does not look like a RVS vote at all.
"He convinced me of his scumminess" was intended to point out that the analysis, while lacking in content, was very detailed. The way that it was worded may have been more serious, but I figured that since it was RVS, people would take it with a grain of salt.
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ITF if you hate waffles you are going to hate me day one. That's just how I roll. I do not feign certainty if I do not feel it, and I feel there is little to be certain about day one. I plan to not just complain about the state of town, but obviously it was on my mind and there is little point in not saying things that are on my mind. You will find as the day and game progresses I am one of the more active folk around, I tend to cause trouble wherever I roam. I am sure something will stick out.
Speaking of...!
Which is why I ask for data points. If this guy is known to be a good scum player I can dismiss him out of hand as scum, if he is not then it becomes less clear cut for me. How many games has he played? Does... anyone know?
Snurfy I see has not a lot of posts. Are you new snurfy or do you have an alt? Need to know stuff.
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What precise point made you go "wow, that's a great case"? Surely you felt strongly about it, so what was the winning point for you.
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What do you mean, "a great case"? If you're talking about Puddlejumper's case on Rodemy, I didn't quite think the case itself was particularly good, but the way PJ was able to read so much as scum with so few points amused and impressed me.
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A mirror, a shield, a promise, a great distance, and a kind word-- five ways to avoid harm.
Okay so Snurfy is town, we can all move on from that.
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I think this game is the perfect game for a no-lynch, day 1, just from what I can delve. No-lynch is a tool for the town, but saying it should never be used day 1 is complete bollocks. There are several reasons it can be useful, but there are obvious reasons why I cannot. Do bear in mind that I am aware the odds of the scum not having a re-director/roleblocker are almost 0 in any non-basic game, but I still feel strongly about it. If you still want the day to go forwards, fine with that as well, but do keep an open mind.
@Chris: I am only saying this because I have noticed this pattern with you (not going to mention specifics). Sometimes, the best lies are the ones considered too silly to be lies. Bear that principal in mind for scum hunting.
Of course! I will say though that new scum tend to feel pretty stiff in MY experience, not silly. I will say I think people who are new of either alignment tend to crack under pressure, and a snurfy train is classic day one lynch train in some of the games I've been in. Maybe it isn't a 100% for sur eshot of snurfy being town, but a newbie scum telling me he voted someone for it being amusing? I like it for now.
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I still don't understand TCM's reasons for a nolynch. Why wouldn't it be better to at least try to lynch scum, and if we don't hit scum we at least get information?
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A mirror, a shield, a promise, a great distance, and a kind word-- five ways to avoid harm.
I do apologize. Had I known it would cause you such grief I would have withheld my comment until you could post first.
Unvote
Vote Antny223
But since you had to be a whine-baby, I will vote you instead.
Unvote
Vote No Lynch
Because we can....
Unvote
Vote Seppel
Because he can't do anything about it.
Unvote
Vote Hunger
Because a wagon is made by three!
Unvote
Because I have got RVS out of my system.
Explain your vote on Hunger... why make a wagon in RVS?
Because Oregon Trail was my favorite game when I was five. I don't have an actual reason, and if you go back and look, it actually didn't even make the third vote on Hunger, because the person before me had voted and then unvoted right away. So, I guess to sum it up, I did it because it felt good. And it went with my point, which was to get as many random votes out of my system as possible before we got down to being serious.
I still don't understand TCM's reasons for a nolynch. Why wouldn't it be better to at least try to lynch scum, and if we don't hit scum we at least get information?
If I am understanding correctly, the no lynch ploy would simply save us from mislynching a townie, since odds are day one that we generally hit fellow townies versus a scum member. By no lynching it essentially puts us "up a town member" from where we would normally be on a typical day two. The roleblocker piece I am not as sure about. I do not understand what he means by all of that.
Obviously, there is the drawback you mentioned Snurfy, where we simply don't glean as much information as we would otherwise.
I see where Chris went with his questioning of Snurfy. I agree, he is townie enough for now. Unvote Snurf
I have to say, I am a huge fan of quick days, but even I have to have a little more input into the thread before I will jump on the no lynch bandwagon. I don't particularly like the idea of letting the scum get "free" kills by no lynching though. Can we revisit the idea in a few more pages?
No lynching is a bad idea, but he's open to it. He voices some concerns, but sets himself up to go either way.
I am hoping this answers your point as to why no lynching is not such "a bad idea." If you don't get it still, well, agree to disagree then. It is not my favorite plan at all, but I do understand its uses.
I think this game is the perfect game for a no-lynch, day 1, just from what I can delve. No-lynch is a tool for the town, but saying it should never be used day 1 is complete bollocks.
I can't see a scenario where it's correct to No Lynch D1. The information gained from a flip makes it much easier to get traction on later Days. Even if we don't lynch scum, it gives us way more information to use going into Day 2. That more than offsets the risk of being down a townie.
.....in case it needs to be said, I was on drugs when posting.... Whatever I was posting... About Seppel's child and knitting. My sinscerest apologies.
I was more concerned about the skydiving portion of that post. Seriously, drugs and skydiving is way worse than drugs and knitting for Seppel's kid.
I like it when people tell me what is not their motivation so we can be required to ask "what is your motivation?" when that question could have been answered in any number of assorted ways long before this point.
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Personally though I thought you were just BSing for reactions because you seem far too strong of a player to take a draw day one.
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I shouldn't have to tell you my motivation. You seem intelligent enough to have figured out, and be able to determine that I am in fact strong enough to realize what could go wrong, and why I think the pros still justify the means.
You know I've been playing mafia for 12 years now, and not once in all that time has someone being vague with their reasoning resulted in a good end for them.
It's uncanny.
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You know I've been playing mafia for 12 years now, and not once in all that time has someone being vague with their reasoning resulted in a good end for them.
It's uncanny.
I've certainly seen that. In fact I've seen whole games hinge on one player's ability to pick up a hint after they've been hit over the head with it.
I think this game is the perfect game for a no-lynch, day 1, just from what I can delve. No-lynch is a tool for the town, but saying it should never be used day 1 is complete bollocks. There are several reasons it can be useful, but there are obvious reasons why I cannot. Do bear in mind that I am aware the odds of the scum not having a re-director/roleblocker are almost 0 in any non-basic game, but I still feel strongly about it. If you still want the day to go forwards, fine with that as well, but do keep an open mind.
@Chris: I am only saying this because I have noticed this pattern with you (not going to mention specifics). Sometimes, the best lies are the ones considered too silly to be lies. Bear that principal in mind for scum hunting.
Why this game though. Why are you implementing this idea in THIS game? I haven't played with a LOT of the people here, so going off meta day two would be.. *****ty. And that is pretty much all we have if we go straight to no lynch. Sigh.. i'll bite.
Wat are the pros to a no lynch D1?
Huntzilla can you please contribute some thoughts on who you are leaning towards as scum. I haven't seen a single ounce of effort put forward.. and you have posted a lot.
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
How dare you guys fill the thread with 3 pages while I slept! People are already doing text walls and quotes!
TCM's plan seems kinda stupid- suggesting a nolynch barely 12 hours in is pretty weird. Vote:TheColdMonarch.
Puddlejumper has done an PBPA on Rodemy's, what, four posts? He convinced me of his scumminess pretty well though... Unvote, Vote:Rodemy
"He convinced me of his scumminess" was intended to point out that the analysis, while lacking in content, was very detailed. The way that it was worded may have been more serious, but I figured that since it was RVS, people would take it with a grain of salt.
Except I am pretty sure Puddle Jumper was being serious.. which means RVS was over. You were commenting on a serious post (and agreeing with it. I cannot fathom why you would be "in rvs" still. In fact, i had started makign a case on Sir Chris that was Non-rvs. So technically i took us out of it. But there were some serious posting going on between Killjoy and I, so the game was getting serious. So you coming in and being all like I AGREE WITH HIM, does not, even for a second, sound like RVS. You are backtracking.
You jumped on the Rodemy wagon just as it was starting too. So that isn't in your favor either.
Plez can has lynch of Snurfy
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Okay so, IF Sir Chris actually HAD agreed with TCM, It would be scummy because it appeared that TCM was fishing. Putting out a bad idea that is anti town can be scum.. but agreeing with it seems more like Scum agreeing with townies bad idea.
Sir Chris stood out more for going along with it than TCM was suggesting it. If Sir Chris had been lynched and came up scum, it would be a reason to investigate TCM D2.
HOWEVER
You told me that Sir Chris wasn't actually agreeing with TCM, which made me go back, re-read his post and go.. OHHHHHHHH.. Hence why I didn't continue the push.
Does that make sense?
Seriously, are you guys saying that i am scummy for NOT pushing a made up case? ._.?
So, it's only fishing if Chris agreed with it?
Also, why can't TCM be scum for suggesting it in the first place if Chris might be scum for thinking it's a good idea?
Scum post is scummy. Cool logic and justification are tools for Scum, not Town. Also, I play almost exclusively on vibes. Get used to it. Vote: Puddle Jumper
[...]
I see a scumbuddy, too. Man, this is going to be easy.
So, about your vote on PJ... your justification on it doesn't make sense. Cool logic and justification are tools for scum? Explain please. Also explain why that merits a vote.
Also, the second part seems a bit forced to me.
Okay so Snurfy is town, we can all move on from that.
I'm leaning the other way, actually. I'm especially not impressed with the way he throws some mud at Antny at the end of his 104, as if to throw attention away from himself.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sepi is so over the top aggressive and defensive. I also don't like her early, "I'm sticking with Chris being scum this game," it feels really forced. Much like Chris' misgivings with Rodemy being scum however, I can't see how Sepi could be so arrogantly abrasive as scum so early.
So wait i am not quite sure i understand your beef here, pleasew rephrase and explain... btw the bit on Chris was kinda in jest for what its worth...
I don't like how Sepiriel felt the need to state that she'd skimmed the first 3 pages and would reread later. This looks like an attempt to look busy when there really isn't that much to be busy about.
Already explained it tho, its not about being busy, its about being in a physical location with bad/inconsistent internet connection and not being sure i could get more than a quick read an maybe a post in if possible.
I'll be keeping an eye on her moving forward.
Cool, i like attention.
I was going to vote for her, but then I read Antny's follow-up, and I just can't reconcile how early it is, what he's calling scummy (even though it's the same thing I'm calling scummy), and how confident it looks like he is on his read of her.
So just to be sure i understand this.
In your mind as of this post i am in your leaning scum, yet Anty seems scummier because he basically went 'all in' after a very vague nitpick point.
I mean i get it but if anything the fact he is willing to latch so tightly to THAT so early in the game makes me think misguided town more than anything (@Ant: When i play with people i dont know i assume skill cap = 0, and then just move them up/down in the rankings as needed, so yeah there's your answer to how to play, or at least how I personally play).
Antny reads as a little trigger-happy to me. He jumped all over Seperiel for...skimming? Sep got really defensive after he did, though, which unnerves me.
In my defense, this is pretty much par for the course when it comes to interacting with me (I know people will hate this line, call it a scum tell and what not, my pre-emptive defense is to tell people to go look at my older games, i have always used this kind of language).
@Ant: Tilde is a player i had a game with i think 1-2 times before, i am not salty at you, i am salty at Tilde, it is just that you somehow brought back the frustration i have associated when dealing with him. not that it matters or anything... me rambling on randomly is also something i do quite often.
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Huntzilla can you please contribute some thoughts on who you are leaning towards as scum. I haven't seen a single ounce of effort put forward.. and you have posted a lot.
Did you already forget where you got the idea for Snurfy from? You /barned my vote. granted that was a few pages ago now. But to deliberately misrep that fact is a bit scummy itself.
After Chris asked his questions of Snurf, why are you still harping on the new guy? Looks like you are snacking on wee babes. Misreps and noob hunting... that equals scum in my book. Unvote
Vote Rodemy
"He convinced me of his scumminess" was intended to point out that the analysis, while lacking in content, was very detailed. The way that it was worded may have been more serious, but I figured that since it was RVS, people would take it with a grain of salt.
Except I am pretty sure Puddle Jumper was being serious.. which means RVS was over. You were commenting on a serious post (and agreeing with it. I cannot fathom why you would be "in rvs" still. In fact, i had started makign a case on Sir Chris that was Non-rvs. So technically i took us out of it. But there were some serious posting going on between Killjoy and I, so the game was getting serious. So you coming in and being all like I AGREE WITH HIM, does not, even for a second, sound like RVS. You are backtracking.
It was my first post of the game. Others may have been getting more serious, but I didn't really have much to say, so I decided to make an RVS post and see where it lead. I have serious doubts that puddlejumper was being serious (if he was, then his argument has to rank up there as one of the worst PBPA's of all time) and so I thought a reply to a jokey post would also be considered jokey.
Quote from Rodemy »
You jumped on the Rodemy wagon just as it was starting too. So that isn't in your favor either.
Sigh... I thought I was making an RVS vote (as indicated by the fact that I voted TCM, then unvoted in the same post).
Also, that "wagon" had three people on it. You can't really blame me for joke-voting somebody who happened to have another vote on them, then another person votes and its suddenly a wagon. If I'm using the words "joke" and "RVS" a lot, it's because that's simply how it happened.
I'm leaning the other way, actually. I'm especially not impressed with the way he throws some mud at Antny at the end of his 104, as if to throw attention away from himself.
I was trying to contribute to an existing argument. In my mind, I had explained myself, and now it was time to move on to other issues, such as that conversation. Is it illegal for me to throw in my $.02 to that?
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A mirror, a shield, a promise, a great distance, and a kind word-- five ways to avoid harm.
I shouldn't have to tell you my motivation. You seem intelligent enough to have figured out, and be able to determine that I am in fact strong enough to realize what could go wrong, and why I think the pros still justify the means.
That's great. I don't understand how they do. And if you're the one who is proposing something so nonstandard, I don't understand why you're being so obtuse about what makes this game unique that the pros outweigh the cons.
I don't like how Sepiriel felt the need to state that she'd skimmed the first 3 pages and would reread later. This looks like an attempt to look busy when there really isn't that much to be busy about.
Already explained it tho, its not about being busy, its about being in a physical location with bad/inconsistent internet connection and not being sure i could get more than a quick read an maybe a post in if possible.
I'll be keeping an eye on her moving forward.
Cool, i like attention.
Sure. I'll be watching how you continue to play. That's all.
I was going to vote for her, but then I read Antny's follow-up, and I just can't reconcile how early it is, what he's calling scummy (even though it's the same thing I'm calling scummy), and how confident it looks like he is on his read of her.
So just to be sure i understand this.
In your mind as of this post i am in your leaning scum, yet Anty seems scummier because he basically went 'all in' after a very vague nitpick point.
Something about that above post makes me think 'scum', I don't know quite what yet though.
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re: No Lynch - Come on guys. Read 1. under Game Specific Information in the OP. Has this really not occurred to anyone or is everyone just playing dumb and fishing? This is a specialty, clearly TCM isn't just saying that in a vacuum no-lynch is a great choice D1.
@Sepi - My beef, like I said, is with the defensiveness of your posts from the outset of the game and the way in which you called Chris scum and said you were sticking with it. You can say you were joking about the Chris thing, but it definitely does not read that way. And if you were, why were you joking and placing a vote when it was out of RVS?
Your reaction in 59 looks overly defensive. A lot of people that play mafia consider people saying, "I will catch up when they have free time," a scum tell. To me it looks like he pushed you to see your reaction and you reacted poorly IMO.
I feel like I saw stats somewhere that said most day one lunches are scum. I forget where that was.
It would be really rad if you could find that citation. This is a very valid reason to not do a no-lynch, and to suspect TCM is attempting to undermine the town.
Answers to your questions
1.) Whoops I don't know what a PR is
2.) I don't have a scum tell since I've never been scum... just such a spastic player (trying my hardest) that people think I have to be scum putting on an act.
Iso's Mom, Town Iso's Mom
Once per Night, I target a player. That player becomes Iso and I can ground them, tell them to do their homework, and make them clean their room.
Because Iso's mom is an animal :D:D:D
Your dick is an animal.
Btdubs I am happy that you are calling me Godot now instead of Godat.
First impression on reading the thread: TCM tosses out a common reaction-getter post, generally a town thing but not a huge tell. Rodemy, who was random voting someone not in the game (generally a scum thing) goes out of his way to vote a *second* person not in the game just to hammer home the point that he's afraid of RVS (which is a scum attitude), then overreacts to discussion by tossing out a serious vote so we can finally be done with RVS and he doesn't have to pretend to be voting with no info. When this draws attention, he tries to make a case out of the nothing that his first real vote consisted of, in hopes of supplying a distraction.
Yeah, I like Rodemy for scum here.
Vote Rodemy
Um.... When did Rodemy vote somebody who wasn't in the game?
He's not claiming to be a randomlol dude, he is a randomlol dude. People don't claim that sort of thing; it's waaaaaaaay too hard to fake. Like, your trying to put a deliberate thought process to the way he goes about things. Neither of your molds fit, he's very clearly not thinking about things in the way you're saying.
The primary way Rodemy's posts make sense is if he saw Sir Chris as wanting to no-lynch. Otherwise, he's doing something that's really odd (voting Sir Chris over TCM) for no reason at all. I don't see the scum motivation.
(Re "Vibes": Sometimes, I can't explain why I get my reads, and I'd rather give them than spend too much time trying to explain.)
For the record, I also thought Sir Chris was wanting to go with a no-lynch. When he said he wanted "the opposite" of what we normally do on day 1 i.e. not lynching scum, it was within close proximity to TCM's vote for a no-lynch. Through context, it looks like he was going along with TCM. If he was, this would make him even scummier for just jumping in on somebody else's idea. But he wasn't. So Rodemy seems innocent here IMO.
I skipped over the skirmish between Sepiriel and Antny because I'd rather not read it. At first glance, it looks like the skirmish she and Tom had in xkcd mafia, which was town-on-town. If anybody disagrees, speak up.
I think this game is the perfect game for a no-lynch, day 1, just from what I can delve. No-lynch is a tool for the town, but saying it should never be used day 1 is complete bollocks. There are several reasons it can be useful, but there are obvious reasons why I cannot. Do bear in mind that I am aware the odds of the scum not having a re-director/roleblocker are almost 0 in any non-basic game, but I still feel strongly about it. If you still want the day to go forwards, fine with that as well, but do keep an open mind.
Okay so like what if you actually explained why you wanted it though
.....in case it needs to be said, I was on drugs when posting.... Whatever I was posting... About Seppel's child and knitting. My sinscerest apologies.
I was more concerned about the skydiving portion of that post. Seriously, drugs and skydiving is way worse than drugs and knitting for Seppel's kid.
I think drugs and skydiving would be more fun than drugs and knitting. Knitting is definitely best done sober. I mean, there are irreversible mistakes at risk there. (accident-purls are a ***** to undo)
Am I right in assuming it's just that you hate D1 because no info and you'd like there to just be no D1 this game?
You would be correct about day 1 being my weakest start, but incorrect about that being my motivation. Without OG mentions, this is the first game in my entire mafia career I have ever been for a day 1 no lynch.
That's great. I don't understand how they do. And if you're the one who is proposing something so nonstandard, I don't understand why you're being so obtuse about what makes this game unique that the pros outweigh the cons.
Telling you why I am for a no-lynch, defeats the purpose of a no-lynch: The biggest pro of a no-lynch is that the town basically gets to use it's strongest skillshots, with minimal fear of mafia interference. The odds of the mafia correctly nking a PR also are significantly lower. I am taking into account I will likely be targeted with at least one negative ability, and still felt no-lynch was correct (bear in mind, I suggested this before half the people made their first post)
I am perfectly ok continuing discussion, and analyzing people. I would just say at about 500+ posts, I would like to check in with that plan. I would also like zero claims, until it is determined at that time that everyone is either for or against a no lynch.
Quote from Godat »
How would this be beneficial to town at all? The Cold Monarch, or The ****** who is in the Mafia? e.e
That wasn't very nice. I stated above the positives, and my name is a relic from my clanmasters.
Also why the vote? Do you think my suggestion is that scummy? Why are PJ and KJ marked as scummy?
But the lack of information provides much less context for how best to use some of the abilities that we have. I'm not sure having an extra ability due to the no lynch but less confirmed interactions on how best to use it is a worthwhile tradeoff. Keep in mind that the scum already knows who they are - they don't have the same lack of information guiding their actions.
Telling you why I am for a no-lynch, defeats the purpose of a no-lynch: The biggest pro of a no-lynch is that the town basically gets to use it's strongest skillshots, with minimal fear of mafia interference.
The town's strongest skillshot is the lynch. It's like a daily vig that ignores bulletproof and can't be roleblocked. This isn't just a bad plan, it's an anti-town plan.
But whether there is a lynch or not, everybody still uses their night abilities (if they have one) and mafia has the same amount of interference?
Is a no-lynch day beneficial to you personally?
I voted you because I think this is only beneficial to somebody who is not part of the town. Puddles and Killjoy are scummy because of the quotes I pulled from them.
TCM's first post has a handful of explanations, ranging from ignorance to simple reaction-getting to role-based nonsense. TCM has essentially claimed that it wasn't reaction-getting and it doesn't seem like ignorance, so role-based nonsense is the order of the day. The reality is that the odds of any town actually no-lynching on Day 1 are vanishingly small, and any experienced player would know that, so either he's being naive or he's trying to bait some sort of ability or else he's playing some kind of long-term objective. In very few of these cases can I imagine a scum making a move like this, because scum-type abilities generally don't benefit much from not knowing what's going on.
In my judgment, TCM is as clear as anyone can get day 1. Anyone trying to wagon him at this point is seriously missing the point.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't think you know what you're talking about.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
We were in RVS, I was making a joke about three things:
1. The fact three pages worth of content had popped up while I was asleep.
2. The fact TCM had proposed a nolynch very early on.
3. The fact that puddlejumper made an extensive analysis using very few posts.
My votes weren't votes votes, I was using them to punctuate, if you will, my comments.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people are so riled up by my post. I make a joke about puddlejumper's analysis and I'm suddenly his scumbuddy?
@Hunger: I played a few games on another site, but that was a long time ago. I've not played here before.
Antny reads as a little trigger-happy to me. He jumped all over Seperiel for...skimming? Sep got really defensive after he did, though, which unnerves me.
No lynching is a bad idea, but he's open to it. He voices some concerns, but sets himself up to go either way.
Hmm, noted.
"forms ***"
But rather than complaining about towns being bad, you wanna help sort the scum out?
Does "Weird" mean scum?
In your own words, what makes Rodemy scum?
So... he's so bad that he's probably town, but you dunno because bad scum tend to get past you?
This is a waffley mess.
I don't see him not wanting to be the center of attention though. He voted Sir Chris pretty hard, so if he's trying to not be the center of attention... he's not exactly doing a great job.
I agree that looking at links probably isn't productive right now; if one of them flips scum we can come back to it.
~
On Antny/Cythare/Sepiriel: I see where Antny is coming from on Sepiriel, it's a little scummy to make excuses like that, but it's early enough that it's not a big deal. If Sepiriel had made that post later on, or had made that post then lurked for a few days, it would've been worse.
Cythare is probably town. I see his reasoning, and I don't think he would say he agreed with Antny... then vote him if he were scum. It's just about the weirdest thing you could do. His motivation makes more sense if he's town saying all of his thoughts regarding Antny/Sepiriel.
The first line sounds like a joke. The second line could be a joke, but saying the plan is stupid and that he's weird makes it sound like you're calling him scum.
The third sentence is not a joke. "He convinced me of his scumminess" and then voting does not look like a RVS vote at all.
Unvote Huntzilla
Vote Snurfy8
Speaking of...!
Which is why I ask for data points. If this guy is known to be a good scum player I can dismiss him out of hand as scum, if he is not then it becomes less clear cut for me. How many games has he played? Does... anyone know?
Snurfy I see has not a lot of posts. Are you new snurfy or do you have an alt? Need to know stuff.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@Chris: I am only saying this because I have noticed this pattern with you (not going to mention specifics). Sometimes, the best lies are the ones considered too silly to be lies. Bear that principal in mind for scum hunting.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Because Oregon Trail was my favorite game when I was five. I don't have an actual reason, and if you go back and look, it actually didn't even make the third vote on Hunger, because the person before me had voted and then unvoted right away. So, I guess to sum it up, I did it because it felt good. And it went with my point, which was to get as many random votes out of my system as possible before we got down to being serious.
If I am understanding correctly, the no lynch ploy would simply save us from mislynching a townie, since odds are day one that we generally hit fellow townies versus a scum member. By no lynching it essentially puts us "up a town member" from where we would normally be on a typical day two. The roleblocker piece I am not as sure about. I do not understand what he means by all of that.
Obviously, there is the drawback you mentioned Snurfy, where we simply don't glean as much information as we would otherwise.
I see where Chris went with his questioning of Snurfy. I agree, he is townie enough for now. Unvote Snurf
I am hoping this answers your point as to why no lynching is not such "a bad idea." If you don't get it still, well, agree to disagree then. It is not my favorite plan at all, but I do understand its uses.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
What did you make?
I was more concerned about the skydiving portion of that post. Seriously, drugs and skydiving is way worse than drugs and knitting for Seppel's kid.
Were you looking to make Chris your Bae like Tom was?
You would Seppel. You would...
Poor guy keeps getting mislynched, and you decide to start down the darn road again.
Sure, that's possible.
@Killjoy: According to Plowshare's extendo's mafia stats, I have around ten times his experience over the past decade.
We can revisit no lynching later. For now I want some info.
Care to elaborate, or just blindly vote and pretend that's okay?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It's uncanny.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I've certainly seen that. In fact I've seen whole games hinge on one player's ability to pick up a hint after they've been hit over the head with it.
Why this game though. Why are you implementing this idea in THIS game? I haven't played with a LOT of the people here, so going off meta day two would be.. *****ty. And that is pretty much all we have if we go straight to no lynch. Sigh.. i'll bite.
Wat are the pros to a no lynch D1?
Huntzilla can you please contribute some thoughts on who you are leaning towards as scum. I haven't seen a single ounce of effort put forward.. and you have posted a lot.
Except I am pretty sure Puddle Jumper was being serious.. which means RVS was over. You were commenting on a serious post (and agreeing with it. I cannot fathom why you would be "in rvs" still. In fact, i had started makign a case on Sir Chris that was Non-rvs. So technically i took us out of it. But there were some serious posting going on between Killjoy and I, so the game was getting serious. So you coming in and being all like I AGREE WITH HIM, does not, even for a second, sound like RVS. You are backtracking.
You jumped on the Rodemy wagon just as it was starting too. So that isn't in your favor either.
Plez can has lynch of Snurfy
Also, why can't TCM be scum for suggesting it in the first place if Chris might be scum for thinking it's a good idea?
So, about your vote on PJ... your justification on it doesn't make sense. Cool logic and justification are tools for scum? Explain please. Also explain why that merits a vote.
Also, the second part seems a bit forced to me.
I'm leaning the other way, actually. I'm especially not impressed with the way he throws some mud at Antny at the end of his 104, as if to throw attention away from himself.
Am I right in assuming it's just that you hate D1 because no info and you'd like there to just be no D1 this game?
I-It's not like i wanted you to notice. B-b-baka!
So wait i am not quite sure i understand your beef here, pleasew rephrase and explain... btw the bit on Chris was kinda in jest for what its worth...
Already explained it tho, its not about being busy, its about being in a physical location with bad/inconsistent internet connection and not being sure i could get more than a quick read an maybe a post in if possible.
Cool, i like attention.
So just to be sure i understand this.
In your mind as of this post i am in your leaning scum, yet Anty seems scummier because he basically went 'all in' after a very vague nitpick point.
I mean i get it but if anything the fact he is willing to latch so tightly to THAT so early in the game makes me think misguided town more than anything (@Ant: When i play with people i dont know i assume skill cap = 0, and then just move them up/down in the rankings as needed, so yeah there's your answer to how to play, or at least how I personally play).
In my defense, this is pretty much par for the course when it comes to interacting with me (I know people will hate this line, call it a scum tell and what not, my pre-emptive defense is to tell people to go look at my older games, i have always used this kind of language).
@Ant: Tilde is a player i had a game with i think 1-2 times before, i am not salty at you, i am salty at Tilde, it is just that you somehow brought back the frustration i have associated when dealing with him. not that it matters or anything... me rambling on randomly is also something i do quite often.
Did you already forget where you got the idea for Snurfy from? You /barned my vote. granted that was a few pages ago now. But to deliberately misrep that fact is a bit scummy itself.
After Chris asked his questions of Snurf, why are you still harping on the new guy? Looks like you are snacking on wee babes. Misreps and noob hunting... that equals scum in my book.
Unvote
Vote Rodemy
It was my first post of the game. Others may have been getting more serious, but I didn't really have much to say, so I decided to make an RVS post and see where it lead. I have serious doubts that puddlejumper was being serious (if he was, then his argument has to rank up there as one of the worst PBPA's of all time) and so I thought a reply to a jokey post would also be considered jokey.
Sigh... I thought I was making an RVS vote (as indicated by the fact that I voted TCM, then unvoted in the same post).
Also, that "wagon" had three people on it. You can't really blame me for joke-voting somebody who happened to have another vote on them, then another person votes and its suddenly a wagon. If I'm using the words "joke" and "RVS" a lot, it's because that's simply how it happened.
I was trying to contribute to an existing argument. In my mind, I had explained myself, and now it was time to move on to other issues, such as that conversation. Is it illegal for me to throw in my $.02 to that?
Basically, yes.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Something about that above post makes me think 'scum', I don't know quite what yet though.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
##vote: Cythare
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@Sepi - My beef, like I said, is with the defensiveness of your posts from the outset of the game and the way in which you called Chris scum and said you were sticking with it. You can say you were joking about the Chris thing, but it definitely does not read that way. And if you were, why were you joking and placing a vote when it was out of RVS?
Your reaction in 59 looks overly defensive. A lot of people that play mafia consider people saying, "I will catch up when they have free time," a scum tell. To me it looks like he pushed you to see your reaction and you reacted poorly IMO.
How would this be beneficial to town at all? The Cold Monarch, or The ****** who is in the Mafia? e.e
I don't like this. You're trying too hard to look like you're not trying hard.
I feel like you are being intentionally distracting here.
It would be really rad if you could find that citation. This is a very valid reason to not do a no-lynch, and to suspect TCM is attempting to undermine the town.
Answers to your questions
1.) Whoops I don't know what a PR is
2.) I don't have a scum tell since I've never been scum... just such a spastic player (trying my hardest) that people think I have to be scum putting on an act.
Yes. How dare I... exist.. while you shoot me.. >:(
Your dick is an animal.
Btdubs I am happy that you are calling me Godot now instead of Godat.
I agree with this whole-heartedly.
Um.... When did Rodemy vote somebody who wasn't in the game?
For the record, I also thought Sir Chris was wanting to go with a no-lynch. When he said he wanted "the opposite" of what we normally do on day 1 i.e. not lynching scum, it was within close proximity to TCM's vote for a no-lynch. Through context, it looks like he was going along with TCM. If he was, this would make him even scummier for just jumping in on somebody else's idea. But he wasn't. So Rodemy seems innocent here IMO.
Thank you <3
I like you.
I agree.
Vote: TCM
Scummy: Puddles and Killjoy
I skipped over the skirmish between Sepiriel and Antny because I'd rather not read it. At first glance, it looks like the skirmish she and Tom had in xkcd mafia, which was town-on-town. If anybody disagrees, speak up.
Okay so like what if you actually explained why you wanted it though
I think drugs and skydiving would be more fun than drugs and knitting. Knitting is definitely best done sober. I mean, there are irreversible mistakes at risk there. (accident-purls are a ***** to undo)
^I meant to put that under "Thank you<3"
You would be correct about day 1 being my weakest start, but incorrect about that being my motivation. Without OG mentions, this is the first game in my entire mafia career I have ever been for a day 1 no lynch.
Telling you why I am for a no-lynch, defeats the purpose of a no-lynch: The biggest pro of a no-lynch is that the town basically gets to use it's strongest skillshots, with minimal fear of mafia interference. The odds of the mafia correctly nking a PR also are significantly lower. I am taking into account I will likely be targeted with at least one negative ability, and still felt no-lynch was correct (bear in mind, I suggested this before half the people made their first post)
I am perfectly ok continuing discussion, and analyzing people. I would just say at about 500+ posts, I would like to check in with that plan. I would also like zero claims, until it is determined at that time that everyone is either for or against a no lynch.
That wasn't very nice. I stated above the positives, and my name is a relic from my clanmasters.
Also why the vote? Do you think my suggestion is that scummy? Why are PJ and KJ marked as scummy?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
vote TCM
But whether there is a lynch or not, everybody still uses their night abilities (if they have one) and mafia has the same amount of interference?
Is a no-lynch day beneficial to you personally?
I voted you because I think this is only beneficial to somebody who is not part of the town. Puddles and Killjoy are scummy because of the quotes I pulled from them.
I think the biggest pro would actually be that the mafia gets a head start on killing off non-mafia.
In my judgment, TCM is as clear as anyone can get day 1. Anyone trying to wagon him at this point is seriously missing the point.
@TCM: Does it have to do with a specific piece of public information?