I've been keeping an eye on Dechs, not quite what to make of him yet. I got the sense that he was trying to buddy me, but I haven't figured out whether it's town barning or scum buddying. I've been leaning slightly towards the latter.
I felt it was the other way around, what with you answering questions directed at me.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
"Man, Dechs may be the most talented person in terms of telling other townies that he's a townie I've played with. I love it! It's like playing with a mason, every game."
That's from Azreal in the last game I played with him. He was as town as they come; innocent child and everything. I was totes scum.
And here, where I am town, even he's questioning me. I don't know how I do this *****.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Right, you're DKD. Welcome back, but I neither remember you being that decisive in your town reads, and the way you worded your allegation against Seppel rings all kinds of alarm bells for me:
Quote from Plowshares »
Seppel is trying to, falsely, obtain the status of a confirmed Townie. The fact that he is trying to manipulate everyone into thinking he could town clear himself with modgaming is scummy.
For one, you're assuming you're premise, which is all kinds of bad. I have zero reason to believe Seppel wouldn't try the exact same thing as town if he thought he could get away with it, and a fair amount of reasons to assume that he is MORE likely to do this kind of thing as town. In effect, you're attempting to turn an interaction which reasonably ought to yield us a potential town-cleared analyst, and flipping that information into an attempt to generate lynch interest. You're trying to both unclear AND to kill the person in this game who I consider one of our most likely and most effective townies.
For second, that last sentence is worded horribly. "The fact"? You're straining to establish as fact something that simply isn't. Manipulate everyone? Your language is too charged. But at the same time, the tone of your conclusion is very weak - you finish your post off with saying that what is ostensibly in your view a transparent ploy designed to falsely confirm himself, and you say..."is scummy".
I don't get the sense you're buying this. If it were coming from a townie, I'd expect this to be a case to be brimming with fear, paranoia, and/or the feeling that you were guarding the town from making a tragic mistake. Rather, the sense I get from your post is that you're trying to convince the town to swallow a completely bogus reason to unclear and kill one of its strongest players.
Assuming my premise is kinda my forte. I suffer from confbias syndrome. Here, however, I am making a simple jump in my logical reasoning. I think the whole "flavor-post says [name], [profession], Town [Rolename]" thing Seppel was trying to exploit was 100% completely bogus. Like, not even applicable. Anyone, regardless of their alignment, could have seen the difference if they were in the thread before it was changed and could have made the same attempt at gaming the mod. So, I don't think it would have yielded him "obvtown" status as he so claimed. At all. Or even close. This I believe to be fact.
Here comes the leap:
You are correct that he could have done this as any alignment, which is why the language is not as strong in the conclusion. I'm not SURE it makes him Scum, only relatively (hence scum-my). The fact that it comes from a strong player only intensifies my read because I feel like this should be obvious to anyone with any amount of Mafia experience.
EBWODP: Emotional plea notwithstanding, I still don't like Dechs's naked vote onto a wagon that's already rolling then justifying it after the fact. His "baiting reaction" reasoning doesn't gel with his earlier play.
Explain why Az and AE would obviously push you in concert as scum.
This reads like bad Shonen. Are you for real with the dramatic dialogue?
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Stop, you're making me blush. Also, why is KA scum again?
Because I am an easy target for them. Like sharks smelling blood in the water. Went into a feeding frenzy. I am definitely of the mindset now that it is one or the other, but not both. Dechs has overtaken the scum buddy role in my eyes. He seems to be mimicking everything Az does, which makes me lean that way.
I wish I knew what shonen was. I am real, I can tell you that much.
@EP: Az barely answered for that question, saying he was holding it close or something like that. AE ignored it. Do you feel satisfied by those responses?
I will refrain from the butt kissing. I did not mean to overstep bounds.
When I had made the Kami read, he was lurking hard, and his content was brief. Not a lot of long answers or info. Since then, he has posted a bit, and I am not feeling him as scum even a little bit. I have to eat crow on this one.
Shonen is manga written for kids and tends to have a flare for dramatic monologues.
No, I'm not satisfied with AE or Az's responses. AE only posted once briefly and Az at least acknowledged it so c'est la vie.
Also, I'm fine with your KA answer. But you still don't explain why two scum would make themselves appear so obvious so early just to target a new player. "Sharks in the water" are fine, but this was early day 1 and there is a lot more game they would need to live through. Why risk it so early?
Assuming my premise is kinda my forte. I suffer from confbias syndrome. Here, however, I am making a simple jump in my logical reasoning. I think the whole "flavor-post says [name], [profession], Town [Rolename]" thing Seppel was trying to exploit was 100% completely bogus. Like, not even applicable. Anyone, regardless of their alignment, could have seen the difference if they were in the thread before it was changed and could have made the same attempt at gaming the mod. So, I don't think it would have yielded him "obvtown" status as he so claimed. At all. Or even close. This I believe to be fact.
Here comes the leap:
You are correct that he could have done this as any alignment, which is why the language is not as strong in the conclusion. I'm not SURE it makes him Scum, only relatively (hence scum-my). The fact that it comes from a strong player only intensifies my read because I feel like this should be obvious to anyone with any amount of Mafia experience.
Shonen is manga written for kids and tends to have a flare for dramatic monologues.
No, I'm not satisfied with AE or Az's responses. AE only posted once briefly and Az at least acknowledged it so c'est la vie.
Also, I'm fine with your KA answer. But you still don't explain why two scum would make themselves appear so obvious so early just to target a new player. "Sharks in the water" are fine, but this was early day 1 and there is a lot more game they would need to live through. Why risk it so early?
It's already established that that's not acceptable, but it's not like you'd have anything else but your name you could claim.
I am real, as I stated, but I do love dramatic persiflage and, on occasion with the right partner, repartee. I will have to check out shonen at some point, though I have never really liked manga. I was exposed to tentacle porn a little too young, turned me off to anything slightly anime.
To answer why the scum team might risk it so early, the only answer I have is part of the question. I believe they thought it was so early in the game no one would pay any mind to it, and that they would have plenty of time to bounce back from it. I forget who said it, I think it might have been you, but I am low hanging fruit this game.
But like I mentioned recently, I am not convinced any longer that this is the case. I am falling on the Az is scum side of things right now. He keeps acting like he WANTS to die. It's the little comments he keeps making, the most recent one being
And consider my eye on Huntzilla too. I just realised something.
Dechs, I would like your full claim of your full role, name and everything else that goes with it. Basically the coloured section.
Nah, that's ok. You can get it when you hang me.
I dropped enough about what I do, and my PM tells me I'm an integral role in the village's survival. Don't see how I can do that without a power, so go on. Hang me.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Considering I haven't even gotten around to dropping out of "It's a trap!" reaction-generation mode yet, it'd be cool if we didn't end the day before reaching post #300.
Emo, I felt the emo posting was genuine, but then I noticed he wasnt claiming anything outside of villager. His refusal felt very shady. Had he done a full claim yes I would have considers the unvote.
But considering when I made that post he instantly revealed fisherman, seems like he dropped his principles very fast:.. I think my vote is in the right place.
And seppel, you still taking the potshots? Have you got anything else besides lazy scum play?
Instantly? Dude, read my first couple posts. I already did that a long time ago.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
As for Seppel, I don't see pushing for some partial claim as any helpful to town at all. It looks like he's just fishing for information. (That's my job, by the way)
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Hitman's something I just learned about in mafia. If there's one out there, he might be hunting for my name. Otherwise, name should be irrelevant.
I dropped the hint early to let you idiots know I'm town and tell you what my profession was without broadcasting it to the scum team that everyone has a profession.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Know what? I'm just going to save you guys the trouble.
At this point, if I survive toDay, I'm just going to get kept around by the scum team as a mislynch for the next day anyway. I won't be any help alive. My PM is worded to say I'm an integral part of the village's survival and I don't see how that can be true without actually having a power, so... to hell with it.
Unvote Plowshares
Vote Dechs Kaison
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Considering I haven't even gotten around to dropping out of "It's a trap!" reaction-generation mode yet, it'd be cool if we didn't end the day before reaching post #300.
If you really wanted to prevent the day from ending, you'd have unvoted, putting me back to L-2.
This guy. Says one thing, does another. Lynch him first tomorrow. Then go after Plowshares.
The first dudes on my wagon are definitely town.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Could just be his newness as he keeps telling us. Strictly taking a defense posture due to who's on him. What I think is we have a scum here hiding behind his newbness. I didn't even know he was a new player when I put the vote down on him. But I sure as hell know now.
Check the post cited in the vote-count, I was NOT voting for Dechs. I was voting for Plowshares. I've never voted for Dechs. The game is still live. Unvote, Dechs.
Ordinarily I'd say Dechs' attempted suicide was a tremendously strong town tell, but I've seen him try to self-vote as town before in a recent game. In that game, we correctly read him as town because of it.
As a result, it's conceivable he noticed the discrepancy in the vote-count, and decided to capitalize on it as scum. I want to spend some more time thinking about the relative likelihoods of those two scenarios. At first blush, this iteration of the self-vote is a lot less impassioned and frustrated than the previous one.
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Could just be his newness as he keeps telling us. Strictly taking a defense posture due to who's on him. What I think is we have a scum here hiding behind his newbness. I didn't even know he was a new player when I put the vote down on him. But I sure as hell know now.
If this were the case, why have I been one of the most active posters in the game? That's not hiding.
What's your case on me again? That I am new? That's all you keep talking about at this point.
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Could just be his newness as he keeps telling us. Strictly taking a defense posture due to who's on him. What I think is we have a scum here hiding behind his newbness. I didn't even know he was a new player when I put the vote down on him. But I sure as hell know now.
If this were the case, why have I been one of the most active posters in the game? That's not hiding.
What's your case on me again? That I am new? That's all you keep talking about at this point.
My apologies for the vote count error, everyone. Shoveling snow all day must have gotten to my head. The vote count has been fixed and is now current (as of #283).
I really don't like Azrael's reaction. First, why would self-hammering be a town tell in the first place? Scum self-hammer all the time. More importantly, I don't like that Az immediately offers both town and scum read options on Dechs. Feels to me like he's positioning himself to come out looking good no matter what. Reviewing Az, I also don't like how many naked or low-justification votes he places. And I don't like his push to extend the Day here. Long games benefit scum more than town.
vote Azrael
Generic, why are you asking him for scum suspects when he just told you to lynch Az and Plowshares?
Dechs, why do you care about a hitman if you're killing yourself anyway?
I really don't like Azrael's reaction. First, why would self-hammering be a town tell in the first place? Scum self-hammer all the time. More importantly, I don't like that Az immediately offers both town and scum read options on Dechs. Feels to me like he's positioning himself to come out looking good no matter what. Reviewing Az, I also don't like how many naked or low-justification votes he places. And I don't like his push to extend the Day here. Long games benefit scum more than town.
vote Azrael
Generic, why are you asking him for scum suspects when he just told you to lynch Az and Plowshares?
Dechs, why do you care about a hitman if you're killing yourself anyway?
1. Self-hammering can be a town tell if there's guarantors of genuine emotional frustration. In the previous game where he self-hammered, his posts were crawling with frustration. Here, not so much. Hence, I'm concerned about a repeat performance with an opposite alignment. The thing you have to worry about with Dechs is that the guy is very new, but also very, very serious about playing mafia well. That can lead to both frustration (IE, suicide votes), and newbie mistakes, but also some very patient and thorough attempts at analysis, and some good scum play. So, he's a pretty complicated read. I'm not prepared to come to a snap-read on him and pretend I have confidence in it.
2. Every day one I play, ever, I gambit for reactions and to generate wagons. Ask Seppel or AE or anyone who's familiar with my play. It's bait to get the game moving.
3. Curtailing discussion for the sake of rush-lynches favors the scum. If a game stalls, that can favor the scum, but you don't end a game on post 300 without having done adequate, thorough analysis simply for the sake of avoiding a long game.
[
Azrael, my main concern about your efforts here is that you have handed us back the day which I give you massive props of highlighting, but then go on to keep dechs as potential scum for one of the better plays I will have ever seen if what you are theorizing is true.
You're either suspicious of me for being paranoid, or you're suspicious of me for - I guess inside knowledge?
Neither is particularly reasonable. If you played with a guy who JUST self-voted himself as a town in a game not two months, got cleared because of it, and then in the next game you played with him, made it all the way to a two-man end-game on the strength of his behavior as scum, I got a feeling you might be hearing some alarm bells, too. It's not like we didn't flay Dechs' hide for attempting a self-vote suicide last time, either. He should have known better by now.
So why are you unvoting? It's that inconceivable to you that it's a gambit?
Hey AE: Got an opinion on anyone who isn't Huntzilla?
Dechs: I finally got around to reading you. I asked for games because the first thing I noticed about you is that you didn't RVS. I looked at all the games shown to me and apperently you never do. So that's not a thing. I do have some questions for you.
Was there a reason for voting Plowshares that wasn't in the two reasons you listed, or was it those two?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@AE/Az: He's not reading your posts but is banging on his shield, what do you think about it?
Could just be his newness as he keeps telling us. Strictly taking a defense posture due to who's on him. What I think is we have a scum here hiding behind his newbness. I didn't even know he was a new player when I put the vote down on him. But I sure as hell know now.
If this were the case, why have I been one of the most active posters in the game? That's not hiding.
Hiding does not imply not posting. Hiding behind "I'm new" is saying "I'm new, that's why I did it" every time you post. I know it's what I did on my first scum game.
Dechs: I finally got around to reading you. I asked for games because the first thing I noticed about you is that you didn't RVS. I looked at all the games shown to me and apperently you never do. So that's not a thing. I do have some questions for you.
Was there a reason for voting Plowshares that wasn't in the two reasons you listed, or was it those two?
Who do you think is scum again?
Yeah, RVS is something I never do. I usually push to make RVS end quickly.
I gave you my whole case for Plowshares. That's what I have on him.
The answer to your second question is complicated: First off, I'm not good at finding scum. Second, most of my experience is in games with fewer people than this. I'm having trouble keeping track of everyone in this game. In my most successful games, I've not really hunted for scum; rather, my strategy has been to clear people as town. I feel like I've got a strength there. There were two lynches in the Lego game I was terribly opposed to because I was very sure both lynches were town players. I was right. I've never been convinced someone was town and been wrong. I have been convinced someone was scum and been way wrong. When it comes to finding scum, I find things that look out of place and jump on them with a vote and pressure. I read the reaction and either clear the person as town or I hang on to that person until something else catches my eye better.
Right now, I'm still looking at Plowshares as my main suspect. Az... I'm back to ambivalent on. I planted him in firm scum territory because of the incorrect vote count and that one post of his. Well, oops. I don't really have any reason to think he's scum now.
Hunt is reminding me a lot of myself during my first mafia game where I was scum. He's also doing things that remind me of myself in my second game, where I was town. I'm pretty conflicted about this guy. I don't like him. Especially the way he reacted to my case on him, with that bit at the end of "Oh, this is probably going to make you angry" or however he phrased it. No, his response was good. That line turned it all into bull*****.
That's what bothers me so much about Plowshares defending him so staunchly. It doesn't matter that Hunt is new. It's that Hunt is doing things that should put people off, but Plowshares is convinced he's OK. Of course, if Plow were scum, he'd know Hunt's alignment. I did that a few times as scum, too. Pick one of the townies that looks scummy and defend the ever loving Hades out of him, then get all the towncred when we hang him anyway and say "See, I told you so."
These forums also don't make it easy to ISO a player (unless I'm missing something, please help me out if there's an easy way to do this). Couple that with the larger number of players and it's hard for me to be attentive to each player. I need to reread this game closely.
(1)I really don't like Azrael's reaction. First, why would self-hammering be a town tell in the first place? Scum self-hammer all the time. More importantly, I don't like that Az immediately offers both town and scum read options on Dechs. Feels to me like he's positioning himself to come out looking good no matter what. Reviewing Az, I also don't like how many naked or low-justification votes he places. (2)And I don't like his push to extend the Day here. Long games benefit scum more than town.
vote Azrael
Generic, why are you asking him for scum suspects when he just told you to lynch Az and Plowshares? (3)Dechs, why do you care about a hitman if you're killing yourself anyway?
1. Az is being perfectly honest here. He's seen me pull the self hammer before (and survive it) because I had the votecount wrong. They did grill me really hard after that, telling me I should never ever ever hammer as a town player. I agreed with them. Then I got to this game, and the circumstances were different, and I had a whole list of reasons to do it to myself anyway (already posted these). This time, though, I had the mod's vote count to rely on.
2. Wait a second. Why the hell would you think this? Especially when you just admitted that scum self hammer to cut the day short all the time. Some serious self contradiction going on here.
3. It's not that I really care about a hitman. I don't see any reason to share my name. There's nothing about it that would make my claim any stronger or better and it's not information that could help the town. If you guys aren't happy with my claim, hang me. This is all you're getting.
Hey Killjoy, here's my second scum candidate. Number 2 on this list is something I want to jump on.
So dechs, who are your top scum reads at this moment in time? You have town cleared seppel and arianrhod, which o would live an explanation for, but who are your main suspects?
See above. Plowshares and KA. Hunt is still on the radar.
Seppel and Arianrhod I'm mostly clearing because they were the first on my wagon. I was doing things that should attract town attention. They reacted how I'd expect town to. The guys to follow could be either town following their lead or scum jumping on opportunity. Can't say either way with those.
Ordinarily I'd say Dechs' attempted suicide was a tremendously strong town tell, but I've seen him try to self-vote as town before in a recent game. In that game, we correctly read him as town because of it.
As a result, it's conceivable he noticed the discrepancy in the vote-count, and decided to capitalize on it as scum. I want to spend some more time thinking about the relative likelihoods of those two scenarios. At first blush, this iteration of the self-vote is a lot less impassioned and frustrated than the previous one.
Sit down, Az, and have a glass of wine. I poured two and I'll let you choose.
I could give you any number of reasons why my self hammer this game should clear me. I've already said I'm having trouble paying attention to the game, so why would I even doubt the mod's vote count? Even if I was aware of the discrepancy, why would I expect this stunt to work the same way twice, even with the mod's error on my side, especially in a game with you in it?
At the end of the day, that's all just WIFOM. I can explain the difference in emotion between this and the last. This time, the difference is that I was apathetic, rather than frustrated, because of the way I expect to still be a part of the game after being lynched. This whole get your power after you die gives death a certain appeal.
Whatever you guys do, please do not clear me based on that stupid incorrect self hammer. Az is right, it shouldn't make you think one way or the other on me. I've done it before and it is why people thought I was town. I hated that feeling. It's one thing to be cleared as town for behavior that you mean to do. It feels awful to be cleared for a mistake.
I've been chewing over Az's reaction since my ... incident, and I've come to a conclusion about him. Az is as town as they come. This guy could have lynched me when he asked for my unvote instead. If he were scum, he'd have lynched me no questions asked. Day ends, no more discussion, town disadvantage. He'd have even looked very town for doing so because I still look suspicious as hell and he could have referenced the past game where I did the exact same thing as reason to have voted me. If Az were scum, he did a stupid thing by prolonging the day and saving someone he knew was town. I can say a lot of things about Az, but I can't say he's stupid.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Considering our past games: A town Az has every reason to be conflicted about my actions because he's struggling to read me. A scum Az would know my alignment and be decisive about me. He'd have either hanged me with solid justifications or defended me with solid justifications, appearing town either way.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I haven't considered scenario where both Az and I are scum. That's the only way Az would do what he's doing and be scum. If you think that's a possibility, go back to the part where you hang me like everyone wanted to do anyway and use that flip to clear Az.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
We're not in lylo Dechs. Scum don't hammer just because they can.
Az did ask you to unvote yes, but the town reason for asking that is to get the L-1 pressure off, and it shouldn't matter who does so. Generic was the first on the wagon to post so he did the right thing. I don't like how Az tries to spin that against him.
We're not in lylo Dechs. Scum don't hammer just because they can.
I never said that. I said he'd have hammered because it would have killed a townie and he'd have looked like a hero doing it. Or he'd have flown to my defense, watched me get hanged and said "See, I told you so." No, his reaction is someone who does not know my alignment. He's not scum.
Az did ask you to unvote yes, but the town reason for asking that is to get the L-1 pressure off, and it shouldn't matter who does so. Generic was the first on the wagon to post so he did the right thing. I don't like how Az tries to spin that against him.
No, the town reason for asking that is to get the moron to take the self vote off. When he asked Generic why he unvoted, he was doing it to make sure Generic was still suspicious of me, as he should be. Don't twist that into Az spinning that against him. He was legitimately trying to make sure Generic still kept me on the suspect list.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I believe all of the emotion over the last (real) day has been genuine, and I tend to believe his claim. With that said, I do apologize Dechs for blowing your soft claim up. I was excited that I spotted something sneaky, and I wasn't going to let it go. Like I said previously, I didn't like it because I thought it was underhanded.
I felt it was the other way around, what with you answering questions directed at me.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I'm "village."
Happy now?
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I just got lynched day one in a game where I was a serial killer and I was trying to act as town as I could.
Game before that I did pretty much the same thing, except I was town and so town acting I was night killed on night one.
Then before that I was the most "confirmed town" in a game where I was total scum. I got it down to me and one other townie in the end.
And I have no ******* idea how it happens.
Just lynch me.
The guys defending Hunt are probably scum.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
That's from Azreal in the last game I played with him. He was as town as they come; innocent child and everything. I was totes scum.
And here, where I am town, even he's questioning me. I don't know how I do this *****.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Assuming my premise is kinda my forte. I suffer from confbias syndrome. Here, however, I am making a simple jump in my logical reasoning. I think the whole "flavor-post says [name], [profession], Town [Rolename]" thing Seppel was trying to exploit was 100% completely bogus. Like, not even applicable. Anyone, regardless of their alignment, could have seen the difference if they were in the thread before it was changed and could have made the same attempt at gaming the mod. So, I don't think it would have yielded him "obvtown" status as he so claimed. At all. Or even close. This I believe to be fact.
Here comes the leap:
You are correct that he could have done this as any alignment, which is why the language is not as strong in the conclusion. I'm not SURE it makes him Scum, only relatively (hence scum-my). The fact that it comes from a strong player only intensifies my read because I feel like this should be obvious to anyone with any amount of Mafia experience.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
No, I'm not satisfied with AE or Az's responses. AE only posted once briefly and Az at least acknowledged it so c'est la vie.
Also, I'm fine with your KA answer. But you still don't explain why two scum would make themselves appear so obvious so early just to target a new player. "Sharks in the water" are fine, but this was early day 1 and there is a lot more game they would need to live through. Why risk it so early? It's already established that that's not acceptable, but it's not like you'd have anything else but your name you could claim. What do you think of this: It is the post before you posting your reads.
Reading is hard.
I am real, as I stated, but I do love dramatic persiflage and, on occasion with the right partner, repartee. I will have to check out shonen at some point, though I have never really liked manga. I was exposed to tentacle porn a little too young, turned me off to anything slightly anime.
To answer why the scum team might risk it so early, the only answer I have is part of the question. I believe they thought it was so early in the game no one would pay any mind to it, and that they would have plenty of time to bounce back from it. I forget who said it, I think it might have been you, but I am low hanging fruit this game.
But like I mentioned recently, I am not convinced any longer that this is the case. I am falling on the Az is scum side of things right now. He keeps acting like he WANTS to die. It's the little comments he keeps making, the most recent one being
He is actively refusing to participate, aside from just letting us know he is somewhat reading. Since it is "hard" for him after all.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Nah, that's ok. You can get it when you hang me.
I dropped enough about what I do, and my PM tells me I'm an integral role in the village's survival. Don't see how I can do that without a power, so go on. Hang me.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I mean, I was trying to be subtle about it but Hunt wouldn't leave it alone.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
If the scum want to bus, let them.
Also, did you notice that Generic is scum? I did.
Instantly? Dude, read my first couple posts. I already did that a long time ago.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
@Az: did I miss your answer somewhere?
I dropped the hint early to let you idiots know I'm town and tell you what my profession was without broadcasting it to the scum team that everyone has a profession.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Dechs Kaison (5) - Seppel (185), Arianrhod (211), Plowshares (216), Huntzilla (242), Dechs Kaison (274)
Plowshares (2) - emo_pinata (137), Azrael (231)
Azrael (1) - Rhand (189)
Huntzilla (1) - Archmage Eternal (19)
Not Voting (3) - Kamikaze Archon (84), Killjoy (148), Generic (283)
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.
Moving forward, I won't be processing votes without prior unvoting, as noted in the OP.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
At this point, if I survive toDay, I'm just going to get kept around by the scum team as a mislynch for the next day anyway. I won't be any help alive. My PM is worded to say I'm an integral part of the village's survival and I don't see how that can be true without actually having a power, so... to hell with it.
Unvote Plowshares
Vote Dechs Kaison
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
If you really wanted to prevent the day from ending, you'd have unvoted, putting me back to L-2.
This guy. Says one thing, does another. Lynch him first tomorrow. Then go after Plowshares.
The first dudes on my wagon are definitely town.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Good luck.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Could just be his newness as he keeps telling us. Strictly taking a defense posture due to who's on him. What I think is we have a scum here hiding behind his newbness. I didn't even know he was a new player when I put the vote down on him. But I sure as hell know now.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
No, I just missed your question.
As a result, it's conceivable he noticed the discrepancy in the vote-count, and decided to capitalize on it as scum. I want to spend some more time thinking about the relative likelihoods of those two scenarios. At first blush, this iteration of the self-vote is a lot less impassioned and frustrated than the previous one.
If this were the case, why have I been one of the most active posters in the game? That's not hiding.
What's your case on me again? That I am new? That's all you keep talking about at this point.
You defense is that your new.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
vote Azrael
Generic, why are you asking him for scum suspects when he just told you to lynch Az and Plowshares?
Dechs, why do you care about a hitman if you're killing yourself anyway?
1. Self-hammering can be a town tell if there's guarantors of genuine emotional frustration. In the previous game where he self-hammered, his posts were crawling with frustration. Here, not so much. Hence, I'm concerned about a repeat performance with an opposite alignment. The thing you have to worry about with Dechs is that the guy is very new, but also very, very serious about playing mafia well. That can lead to both frustration (IE, suicide votes), and newbie mistakes, but also some very patient and thorough attempts at analysis, and some good scum play. So, he's a pretty complicated read. I'm not prepared to come to a snap-read on him and pretend I have confidence in it.
2. Every day one I play, ever, I gambit for reactions and to generate wagons. Ask Seppel or AE or anyone who's familiar with my play. It's bait to get the game moving.
3. Curtailing discussion for the sake of rush-lynches favors the scum. If a game stalls, that can favor the scum, but you don't end a game on post 300 without having done adequate, thorough analysis simply for the sake of avoiding a long game.
You're either suspicious of me for being paranoid, or you're suspicious of me for - I guess inside knowledge?
Neither is particularly reasonable. If you played with a guy who JUST self-voted himself as a town in a game not two months, got cleared because of it, and then in the next game you played with him, made it all the way to a two-man end-game on the strength of his behavior as scum, I got a feeling you might be hearing some alarm bells, too. It's not like we didn't flay Dechs' hide for attempting a self-vote suicide last time, either. He should have known better by now.
So why are you unvoting? It's that inconceivable to you that it's a gambit?
Unvote
I'll read the rest later.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Dechs: I finally got around to reading you. I asked for games because the first thing I noticed about you is that you didn't RVS. I looked at all the games shown to me and apperently you never do. So that's not a thing. I do have some questions for you.
I don't like that you missed my question to you twice, but I guess it lost its power now that you moved away from Hunt :/
Hiding does not imply not posting. Hiding behind "I'm new" is saying "I'm new, that's why I did it" every time you post. I know it's what I did on my first scum game.
Yeah, RVS is something I never do. I usually push to make RVS end quickly.
I gave you my whole case for Plowshares. That's what I have on him.
The answer to your second question is complicated: First off, I'm not good at finding scum. Second, most of my experience is in games with fewer people than this. I'm having trouble keeping track of everyone in this game. In my most successful games, I've not really hunted for scum; rather, my strategy has been to clear people as town. I feel like I've got a strength there. There were two lynches in the Lego game I was terribly opposed to because I was very sure both lynches were town players. I was right. I've never been convinced someone was town and been wrong. I have been convinced someone was scum and been way wrong. When it comes to finding scum, I find things that look out of place and jump on them with a vote and pressure. I read the reaction and either clear the person as town or I hang on to that person until something else catches my eye better.
Right now, I'm still looking at Plowshares as my main suspect. Az... I'm back to ambivalent on. I planted him in firm scum territory because of the incorrect vote count and that one post of his. Well, oops. I don't really have any reason to think he's scum now.
Hunt is reminding me a lot of myself during my first mafia game where I was scum. He's also doing things that remind me of myself in my second game, where I was town. I'm pretty conflicted about this guy. I don't like him. Especially the way he reacted to my case on him, with that bit at the end of "Oh, this is probably going to make you angry" or however he phrased it. No, his response was good. That line turned it all into bull*****.
That's what bothers me so much about Plowshares defending him so staunchly. It doesn't matter that Hunt is new. It's that Hunt is doing things that should put people off, but Plowshares is convinced he's OK. Of course, if Plow were scum, he'd know Hunt's alignment. I did that a few times as scum, too. Pick one of the townies that looks scummy and defend the ever loving Hades out of him, then get all the towncred when we hang him anyway and say "See, I told you so."
These forums also don't make it easy to ISO a player (unless I'm missing something, please help me out if there's an easy way to do this). Couple that with the larger number of players and it's hard for me to be attentive to each player. I need to reread this game closely.
1. Az is being perfectly honest here. He's seen me pull the self hammer before (and survive it) because I had the votecount wrong. They did grill me really hard after that, telling me I should never ever ever hammer as a town player. I agreed with them. Then I got to this game, and the circumstances were different, and I had a whole list of reasons to do it to myself anyway (already posted these). This time, though, I had the mod's vote count to rely on.
2. Wait a second. Why the hell would you think this? Especially when you just admitted that scum self hammer to cut the day short all the time. Some serious self contradiction going on here.
3. It's not that I really care about a hitman. I don't see any reason to share my name. There's nothing about it that would make my claim any stronger or better and it's not information that could help the town. If you guys aren't happy with my claim, hang me. This is all you're getting.
Hey Killjoy, here's my second scum candidate. Number 2 on this list is something I want to jump on.
Vote KamikazeArchon
See above. Plowshares and KA. Hunt is still on the radar.
Seppel and Arianrhod I'm mostly clearing because they were the first on my wagon. I was doing things that should attract town attention. They reacted how I'd expect town to. The guys to follow could be either town following their lead or scum jumping on opportunity. Can't say either way with those.
Az asked me to unvote, not Generic. After both I and Generic unvoted, that puts me at L-3, which is not what Az wanted.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Sit down, Az, and have a glass of wine. I poured two and I'll let you choose.
I could give you any number of reasons why my self hammer this game should clear me. I've already said I'm having trouble paying attention to the game, so why would I even doubt the mod's vote count? Even if I was aware of the discrepancy, why would I expect this stunt to work the same way twice, even with the mod's error on my side, especially in a game with you in it?
At the end of the day, that's all just WIFOM. I can explain the difference in emotion between this and the last. This time, the difference is that I was apathetic, rather than frustrated, because of the way I expect to still be a part of the game after being lynched. This whole get your power after you die gives death a certain appeal.
Whatever you guys do, please do not clear me based on that stupid incorrect self hammer. Az is right, it shouldn't make you think one way or the other on me. I've done it before and it is why people thought I was town. I hated that feeling. It's one thing to be cleared as town for behavior that you mean to do. It feels awful to be cleared for a mistake.
I've been chewing over Az's reaction since my ... incident, and I've come to a conclusion about him. Az is as town as they come. This guy could have lynched me when he asked for my unvote instead. If he were scum, he'd have lynched me no questions asked. Day ends, no more discussion, town disadvantage. He'd have even looked very town for doing so because I still look suspicious as hell and he could have referenced the past game where I did the exact same thing as reason to have voted me. If Az were scum, he did a stupid thing by prolonging the day and saving someone he knew was town. I can say a lot of things about Az, but I can't say he's stupid.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Considering our past games: A town Az has every reason to be conflicted about my actions because he's struggling to read me. A scum Az would know my alignment and be decisive about me. He'd have either hanged me with solid justifications or defended me with solid justifications, appearing town either way.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Az did ask you to unvote yes, but the town reason for asking that is to get the L-1 pressure off, and it shouldn't matter who does so. Generic was the first on the wagon to post so he did the right thing. I don't like how Az tries to spin that against him.
I never said that. I said he'd have hammered because it would have killed a townie and he'd have looked like a hero doing it. Or he'd have flown to my defense, watched me get hanged and said "See, I told you so." No, his reaction is someone who does not know my alignment. He's not scum.
No, the town reason for asking that is to get the moron to take the self vote off. When he asked Generic why he unvoted, he was doing it to make sure Generic was still suspicious of me, as he should be. Don't twist that into Az spinning that against him. He was legitimately trying to make sure Generic still kept me on the suspect list.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I believe all of the emotion over the last (real) day has been genuine, and I tend to believe his claim. With that said, I do apologize Dechs for blowing your soft claim up. I was excited that I spotted something sneaky, and I wasn't going to let it go. Like I said previously, I didn't like it because I thought it was underhanded.
Dechs Kaison (3) - Seppel (185), Arianrhod (211), Plowshares (216)
Plowshares (2) - emo_pinata (137), Azrael (231)
Azrael (2) - Rhand (189), KamikazeArchon (286)
Huntzilla (1) - Archmage Eternal (19)
KamikazeArchon (1) - Dechs Kaison (294)
Archmage Eternal (1) - Generic (301)
Not Voting (2) - Killjoy (148), Huntzilla (300)
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)