Spoiler: I knew what you were doing and it is pointless bickering to engage your dumb question that forces WIFOMy answers. I called you on it, your entire line of questioning is pointless now. You will never get an answer you like from me so I'm not playing your game.
And hunger says you won't see him vote early on wagons day 1 and then did. He said that back to early pressure against him.
The first part above doesn't make any sense. How is it Wifomy to give analysis on the players who voted Kami? That's just a cop out to not have to do it.
Your case on Hunger left out reasons he suspected Kami. Then you said he added no new information to the case when he gave more reasoning than anyone else alive on the wagon, which tells me that you were looking for reasons to vote him but not considering what others were doing, and then you just avoided having to answer the question when you realized I was calling you on it.
I'm not interested in lynching anyone outside of Citric, Seppel and EP right now. IF EP's claiming a provable role then that take him off the table too but frankly I'll believe it when I see it. It's possible there's scum in Rhand/Bur given how little an impression either's given but I'll worry about that tomorrow.
@Ika - Why did you ask me questions and then not interact with me on any of my replies?
Why did you stop pushing Seppel to justify his vote on me and cover up the holes that you said you saw?
What do you think of my rebuttal to Seppel's case on me in which I pretty much shut down all of his arguments?
What do you think of emo's reasons against me?
Why are you voting me, especially without following up on your recent lines of questioning? Answer these questions. If I'm getting lynched I want you to be accountable for it with reasoning.
Hunger's contribution to the Kam wagon was atrocious. When I started reading chronologically instead of just looking at votes his entrance into the game was a lot of town clearing with shaky justification, then a lot of words without focus, and then a vote against his own claimed meta.
I would say his position on finding grimiores came off more interested in identifying roles, but he seems to put a heavy weight on power to begin with.
Since then his response to pressure is as over the top as it gets. Calling his entire wagon scum and not looking at the game as a whole to think he is scum is desperate. His big appeal is to let him get his ability because he is mentioned in a flavor scene. He says I am deflecting when his entire response to Seppel was (as Seppel pointed out) started with a deflection. It is far more aggressive than before. etc, etc.
Where is your sudden twitchy-ness coming from?
As DC already pointed out, this is bs. I believe I was one of the first people to start pushing Kam and other than Iso I might be the only person that actually gave reasons why. Why are you alright with everyone else that lynched him having little to no reasoning? What in particular is so bad about my reasoning on Kam? Blanket statements are easy. Show why my contribution is atrocious and why no one elses is.
You saying I voted against my own meta is entirely out of context. When I said that I also said I prefer role analysis and I hate Day 1. Obviously role analysis isn't really a thing on D1 with no claims or flips. Also, my vote on Kam was on page 12, over a week into the game, I wouldn't say that that's super early.
You saying my big appeal is to let me get my ability is a blatant lie. I never used that as a reason to keep me alive, Ika asked what I thought my role might be and so I answered. I never once implied that means you should keep me alive for it because it's a total guess on my part.
My response is over the top because no one voting me had given any reasons why that actually hold up to the simpliest questioning. Then when I questioned Ika and Citric they both ignored it and when I shut Seppel down he doesn't reply and says he is done and everyone else ignores it. I'm pissed, of course I am going to go over the top. And I also stated I am aware that there is almost no chance that the entire scum team is on my wagon, but someone pushing this wagon is scum (hint: pretty sure it's Seppel) so that's where I'm looking. Also, it's how I react to pressure on me when I know that it's bs.
@ika: I forgot to vote Hunger since we were in search mode.
But I'm pretty much done with today. It's impossible to talk in any level of logic with Hunger. It's just mind boggling.
Vote Hunger
Nice reply to me shutting down your arguments. I'll just take that as a you have no response because you are full of ***** as I have been saying the entire time.
@everyone - Read the post in which I refute Seppel's points with quotes that even show he doesn't know what he's talking about. Then look at this response.
@DC - I like that case on Citric. I think there is a solid chance of him being scum, but I still think Seppel is more likely. Do you think Citric and Seppel could both be scum where there votes are on my wagon? Join me and Antny on Seppel?
So I goofed kinda hard because I didn't read my role card closely enough. I'm actually Callo Merlose, and sure enough, Chief Inquisitor Heldricht is mentioned in my role card as well as my superior
I missed the chance to say Kamikaze's name was in my role card (but I think he was lynched after claiming before I got a chance to post, and I did specifically ask that he not be quich-hammered I think? Oh well)
So you were going to completely clear him based on flavor text? My flavor text also names someone as my compatriot, do you think the mod gave multiple people ways to town clear people that aren't mechanics based (i.e. masons)? I think this is pretty lame reasoning and you trying to justify your dramatic reproach to Kam's lynch yesterDay.
As DC already pointed out, this is bs. I believe I was one of the first people to start pushing Kam and other than Iso I might be the only person that actually gave reasons why. Why are you alright with everyone else that lynched him having little to no reasoning? What in particular is so bad about my reasoning on Kam? Blanket statements are easy. Show why my contribution is atrocious and why no one elses is.
Seriously, this is how scum responds to pressure. DCIII's questions are at least trying to pry into why he thinks I am scum, Hunger is rephrasing the question as unique content to deflect from himself onto other people on Kam's wagon and using WIFOM to say "as scum I would not have given as much reason as I did".
@Ika - 1) Why did you ask me questions and then not interact with me on any of my replies?
2)Why did you stop pushing Seppel to justify his vote on me and cover up the holes that you said you saw?
3)What do you think of my rebuttal to Seppel's case on me in which I pretty much shut down all of his arguments?
4)What do you think of emo's reasons against me?
Why are you voting me, especially without following up on your recent lines of questioning? Answer these questions. If I'm getting lynched I want you to be accountable for it with reasoning.
first off:
a lot of this is emotianl based responsed due to my rl stress and issues so if come off a lot harsher then normal just know its venting out.
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1) what do you want emt o respond to on it? a lot of it was ended answers. also given the fact you have constantly been going "go work/busy" doesn thelp. i dont have time to sit here and wait 30 hrs for you to come and check in
2) that was more of me venting out anger at that time. and im certainly not int he mood to go back and check it now. this game has frustrated me enough alone that im really in the "IDGAF mood"
3) a lot of the case is based off how seppi plays iirc, you can argue with it all you like but vbnagain in in the "IDGAF mood"
4) hes already locked himself into a self resloving problem with his grimstone i told him to use it tonight or im agro voting him out of the gate tommorow
5) i will ask you the same question that you already answered: do you know my plan?
you said no. here what i will tell you: thers an untold plan unfolding. if you want ato try and run me up go right ahead, if anyone wants to try it tommorow go right ahead. the fact is that i have set somethign into motion long ago
As DC already pointed out, this is bs. I believe I was one of the first people to start pushing Kam and other than Iso I might be the only person that actually gave reasons why. Why are you alright with everyone else that lynched him having little to no reasoning? What in particular is so bad about my reasoning on Kam? Blanket statements are easy. Show why my contribution is atrocious and why no one elses is.
Seriously, this is how scum responds to pressure. DCIII's questions are at least trying to pry into why he thinks I am scum, Hunger is rephrasing the question as unique content to deflect from himself onto other people on Kam's wagon and using WIFOM to say "as scum I would not have given as much reason as I did".
I'm not deflecting on to Kam's wagon. I haven't used that as an argument to call anyone scummy. I am trying to get you to be accountable for your read. As scum, it's easy for you to say I have bad reasoning and not say anything about anyone else. I want you to actually show your thought process and what makes me scummy over the other people on Kam's wagon so you are accountable for your read. If you can't do that then when I flip town it will be something people can go back to and say, "hey check this out, Hunger tried to get emo to provide an actual argument and he just hand waved it away." And the fact that you continue to just say things like, "this is how scum responds" just shows that you don't really have a good argument. It's weak and I want that to be apparent to everyone else when I flip town.
a lot of this is emotianl based responsed due to my rl stress and issues so if come off a lot harsher then normal just know its venting out.
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1) what do you want emt o respond to on it? a lot of it was ended answers. also given the fact you have constantly been going "go work/busy" doesn thelp. i dont have time to sit here and wait 30 hrs for you to come and check in
2) that was more of me venting out anger at that time. and im certainly not int he mood to go back and check it now. this game has frustrated me enough alone that im really in the "IDGAF mood"
3) a lot of the case is based off how seppi plays iirc, you can argue with it all you like but vbnagain in in the "IDGAF mood"
4) hes already locked himself into a self resloving problem with his grimstone i told him to use it tonight or im agro voting him out of the gate tommorow
5) i will ask you the same question that you already answered: do you know my plan?
you said no. here what i will tell you: thers an untold plan unfolding. if you want ato try and run me up go right ahead, if anyone wants to try it tommorow go right ahead. the fact is that i have set something into motion long ago
1. I suppose you voting me after it means your response is that you don't find anything I said very compelling. I basically wanted you to acknowledge that you read it and thought about it actually since you had previously ignored/skipped my posts writing them off as "fluff." Fair point on my inactivity. I don't think I would be getting lynched toDay had I had more time to put into this game. I've felt disconnected for the majority of it.
2. Fair enough. I think the Seppel issue will resolve itself after I flip town anyway, and he has said he is conveniently V/LA until after deadline.
3. No, it's not based on how he plays. It's all about him asking questions that were clearly answered, and clearly making up reasoning. I don't think I mentioned his meta once, that has nothing to do with it.
5. No, I don't know your plan. Seemingly based on the replies no one does. You can talk about it all you want, but at this point it's just words, it's not doing anything to keep bringing it up.
I'm pretty sure most people just aren't even reading the game or putting in any effort. The fact that both of us have asked everyone questions and usually only get 2 or 3 replies is pretty telling. Not to mention the number of prods/near prods that have gone out (hypocritical, I know). Like, citric and emo both asked for extensions but they aren't even trying to ask questions or do anything with it. Why ask for it then if you just wanted to leave your vote parked on me and not interact? No one cares. It makes it difficult to defend myself when it's pretty clear no one even reads or thinks about my arguments and most people don't even give reasons for their votes.
One thing I do want you to respond to though; do you actually think Citric/Seppel/emo would all be on my wagon together like this if that's the scum team? It's what I have been struggling with. I think one of those three has to be scum, possibly two, but I don't think it can be all three. The problem is then the only other options to be scum that aren't on my wagon are my town reads (DC, Antny, Bur) and Rhand. So I don't know. Maybe my reads are all ****ed up, or maybe the scum team is playing risky and piling on my wagon to distance, but I can't see the town play in most of the people pushing my wagon.
Not much. Game was stalling (just like other mafia games on the site).
@Hunger: What do you think of ika/Seppel interactions?
As I've read and reread the game, everytime I start looking into those, it feels like textbook case of mafia interactions (especially form ika's side). Only thing is that it seems too obvious and that worries me, since ika and Seppel are supposed to be experienced players...
Private Mod Note
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
1. I suppose you voting me after it means your response is that you don't find anything I said very compelling. I basically wanted you to acknowledge that you read it and thought about it actually since you had previously ignored/skipped my posts writing them off as "fluff." Fair point on my inactivity. I don't think I would be getting lynched toDay had I had more time to put into this game. I've felt disconnected for the majority of it.
it more or less apaty. if your town im not going to let the interaction be in vain. tbh a lot of your post come off as fluff/prod dodge but even you agnkowlages that you have been checked out of the gaem much like evryone else
2. Fair enough. I think the Seppel issue will resolve itself after I flip town anyway, and he has said he is conveniently V/LA until after deadline.
3. No, it's not based on how he plays. It's all about him asking questions that were clearly answered, and clearly making up reasoning. I don't think I mentioned his meta once, that has nothing to do with it.
i will have to look back then, i prob skimmed it first time over and only saw a few keywords that made me think that.
5. No, I don't know your plan. Seemingly based on the replies no one does. You can talk about it all you want, but at this point it's just words, it's not doing anything to keep bringing it up.
thats my point though, everyone is deregarding it. everyone doest care. not even the scums care. its obvious the scums are doing the "kill off active and leave lurkers game
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I'm pretty sure most people just aren't even reading the game or putting in any effort. The fact that both of us have asked everyone questions and usually only get 2 or 3 replies is pretty telling. Not to mention the number of prods/near prods that have gone out (hypocritical, I know). Like, citric and emo both asked for extensions but they aren't even trying to ask questions or do anything with it. Why ask for it then if you just wanted to leave your vote parked on me and not interact? No one cares. It makes it difficult to defend myself when it's pretty clear no one even reads or thinks about my arguments and most people don't even give reasons for their votes.
i feel you there, this game had a ot of potential (even if i misunderstood the cult/jester) but its fallen to its side
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One thing I do want you to respond to though; do you actually think Citric/Seppel/emo would all be on my wagon together like this if that's the scum team? It's what I have been struggling with. I think one of those three has to be scum, possibly two, but I don't think it can be all three. The problem is then the only other options to be scum that aren't on my wagon are my town reads (DC, Antny, Bur) and Rhand. So I don't know. Maybe my reads are all ****ed up, or maybe the scum team is playing risky and piling on my wagon to distance, but I can't see the town play in most of the people pushing my wagon.
i have played enough game to where almost anything can happen. i would not be surpirsed if they are all scums pushing a waogn out of everyone apaty just to get a lynch going. the only overlaps right now that fit with your townflip are cirtus/emo
i would say scum!citrus flip would mean most likely that:
-rhand is town based off citrus asking abotu a rhand wagon
-void is town based off interactions
Not much. Game was stalling (just like other mafia games on the site).
@Hunger: What do you think of ika/Seppel interactions?
As I've read and reread the game, everytime I start looking into those, it feels like textbook case of mafia interactions (especially form ika's side). Only thing is that it seems too obvious and that worries me, since ika and Seppel are supposed to be experienced players...
you know im here right? im wondering when you will figure it out......
That's where I'm currently sitting. If this day was longer I'd want to pressure Rhand in retrospect, because he feels like he's made no impact in ages and this is very different from his other (town) game
Ah yes, hunger said there is nothing at city walls.
So town motivation: Found his thing and wanted to hide it or he doesn't want town wasting their time going there. Scum motivation: found his thing.
Considering it is unlikely to hit on the first explore, I'm gonna assume hunger is town and didn't want the majority of players wasting their move action. If he's lying then he could get caught and it would be stupid to lie about whether a Grimoire exists in a place.
Don't discount the willingness of scum to gambit on a lie. And if someone counterclaims him - e.g. "I went to the City Walls and there is something there!" - he could try to spin it as that person lying. The scum motivation for such a lie would be to deter town from searching the location, thus delaying activated PRs.
Such a bad gambit. And it feels like you are just trying to sling mud here. Why not actually try to engage me on it and figure out my mindset?
Calls KA scum for the way more than he posts.
Sensitive to KA's comment about scum willing to gambit.
This is a bad entrance into a wagon. It's centered around barning a meta without the meta comparison, and (weak) OMGUS.
-----
These are the rest of Hunger's transparent thoughts on KA:
I also had searched Sanctum and found something that wasn't mine - but if you were concerned about this information benefiting scum, why the focus on consolidating here? You'd been the most outspoken against sharing search information.
I was against releasing the information in the first place, but enough people wanted to go with a reveal plan, so that's what we're doing now. And once the info is in the thread, consolidating it can only help us - we have to assume scum are already doing their own scanning and consolidating.
This is more of what I haven't liked about Kam. He seems to just be going with the flow and doesn't really care about anything. He supposedly didn't like revealing info, but then didn't fight for it and just dropped it, and now he is seemingly going along with it because it's what most people want. What if it's scum that's leading this argument? It just doesn't seem like you actually care and your original stance was to try and look towny because you, "don't want to give scum info."
Pats himself on the back for voting KA earlier, and then pushes a horrible case for scum again. This time by saying KA agreeing to the go along with a democratic plan is scummy.
Lady Samantha turns away from the sealed door she is trying to open and faces the source of the question. "Nay... the sigil holds it fast. How fare you?"
Lady Neesa motions to the door behind her, from which she had just exited. "T'was a simple workshop."
Samantha walks down a flight of stone steps to approach her compatriot. "I mean your men... how many lost?"
"Ah, the battle you mean... The city is ours, dearie." Neesa responds, but she hesitates before continuing. "More or less..."
"Still no contact from Tieger?"
"Nay," Neesa sighs as she thinks of her partner. "I intend to search for him when the fighting cools."
Samantha replies with concern. "Are you certain that is a good idea? The dead walk in greater numbers as the day wanes... and they will walk beneath the stars when eventide comes."
"I know," Neesa solemnly answers. "But I will not rest until I know what has become of him."
"But Neesa, no training could prepare one for this..."
With frustration, Neesa snaps back, "Would you do differently should Guildenstern vanish??"
"No, it's not that! I just..."
"War is no time to lose your nerve, Samantha."
A third voice resonates from a distance.
"Indeed. Control your fear, lest you be controlled in its stead."
"Romeo..."
Guildenstern approaches the two women with nothing but the business at hand on his mind. "Sydney's lot have caught wind of our little foray and summoned their dark brood to repel us. They summon, yet they cannot command. Soon, the paling that holds the dark in Leá Monde will fall."
"He must be stopped..."
"Yes, Neesa," Guildenstern responds as he puts a hand upon her shoulder. "Remember, that is our priority. I know you worry for Tieger, but we must act now."
Neesa nods and salutes, then heads off to the East to gather her troops. Guildenstern turns his attention to his lover.
"What ails you, Samantha?"
"I understand not Sydney's intentions... what he does defies nature's order."
"Think not of him." he responds as he gazes off into the setting sun. "Come. We have much to do."
@emo - You are missing the point. I never said I did an amazing job of scumhunting and casing Kam (in fact I even believe I said I have been doing a pretty poor job of scumhunting, and found it funny that Seppel attacked me for being MORE involved than in my other town games). I said I actually gave some reasoning unlike most of the people on his wagon. The fact that you are attacking me for not having a super strong case, while ignoring everyone else seems opportunistic and is just a reason to jump on my wagon when I was at L-2.
Here is what the rest of the (still living) wagon on Kam had to say about him:
I really don't think Hawk is scum. I just need to find another recent scumgame from him to doublecheck a meta thing.
Can't we just lynch Kami or Citric?
We got three days to deadline so I'll shift my vote if needed. But frankly given how scummy Hawk has been I'm disappointed none of the people townreading him have been able to give me a convincing reason why.
I haven't seen a reason for Kami being town either.
So how is not sharing location info better than sharing. The scum gain information but so does the town, the scum are already coordinating. We also gain info from the scum cause they canot lie about locations or else they get caught and get lynched. We just can't keep doing it later or else we will direct the NK at anyone who powered up.
Someone tell me, is the bolded part what I think it is or is it just my fever?
Antny: You should read up on my history with Void. As for Bur, his mindset is pretty open book right now.
Hunger: It is good of you to be wary of me! I am scum, after all.
So when I opted in to this game, I only knew it was an item/location based game. I did not read in to it do I assumed everyone was searching for different items. If I was scum I would have known everyone was looking for grimoires. I didn't. I'm not scum. Also iso for sure noticed this post and still wants to lynch me. Citric iso and dciii scum team.
Instead of giving us your thoughts on the other players... you try to sell a Town slip about yourself? That is not confirmed to anyone in this game since we are not you.
We literally only have enough votes to lynch Citric or Archon.
Put your votes up.
Unvote, vote KamikazeArchon.
So his reasons are
- Iso was true claiming scum and Iso is probably bussing Kam.
- Kam said scum want to find their grimoires so we shouldn't give them info.
That's it. After that he only votes Kam because based on his poll he was one of the people that was lynchable. Compelling stuff.
Actually, my initial 3 pick of scum might be wrong. I think that dciii is scum, he's familiar with me in that he knows id be an easy lynch regard less of alignment. Iso then saying all kinds of weird crap and saying dciii is his top town read has made me weary but I was thinking of lynching kamikaze archon to see if Iso had a good read or was just spitting non sensemble. Archon is my policy lynch at this point. I haven't been impressed with his play this game and if I couldn't figure out who to lynch, I'd lynch him.
The thing that gets me is void and dciii speak with absolute confidence about my alignment which I know they are wrong. This is generally used to persuade others to join the wagon but they have no way of knowing with that confidence level. I haven't played with Void in the past like 8 months and my experience with dciii is pretty limited. They both have seen me lynched and how that goes so I'm assuming this is a thought out targeted mislynch against an easy target by those two.
Also archon being confidant in iso being scum fits his town meta. In unreal he was confidant I was scum and I argued with him for days trying to get him to stop tunneling without much luck.
Seems like we're lynching out of him, iso or myself. Seppel and iso didn't like him. Ika and myself did. Pretty useful flip regarding people's opinions on it and he wasn't super useful as town last game so its not losing much if we miss. If he flips town, iso and seppel look great and make the game really easy.
This day should end soon imho. I've lost a lot of my usual resolve.
I'd pick to lynch kami over iso because kami has acted a little different this game and I've seen Iso singlehandedly carry the town. Much more upside in keeping Iso alive.
Currently at the doctor because I got really sick all of a sudden.
I can find reasons to lynch kamikaze or citrus but I think we get more info out of a kamikaze lynch.
So his reasons are basically defacto lynch because he would rather lynch him than Iso, Kam gives more info than citric, and he "felt a little different." Never really says he is scummy. He actually gives more reasoning as to why he thinks he is town based on meta than he actually gives reasons for him being scum. Granted, this is your slot so you obviously aren't going to point this out.
@ME
You misunderstood what I was saying about PR's. The Town PR's are what catch lying Scum and the more Days that go by the more PR's the Town will unlock to catch Scum lying.
I'm certain you have figured out at this point that I wasn't Scum hunting Bur in that post. I just noted it was weird since Night Talk is the normal for most Mafia games.
@ika
Fishing! How dare you! I'll comply.
Cult or Jester Seriously though, Unlynchable
No
Yes
I'm not Scum. And those who know my meta well enough know that I am not Scum.
Because I am Town and most players already know this.
Class? Meh.
Top Scum: Hunger followed by Arch then you, ika.
Top Town: DCIII
Don't care to answer why since it is in the thread and people need to read the game.
Pretty sure I made it clear that it's valuable to the town to just assume you are town given you are better at town then at scum. Why would I be looking for reasons to vote you after saying that?
Because the post shows your uncertainty in the read. Choosing the word "assume" rather than "logically proving" I am Town. You're not trying to solve the game. You're doing what you can not ruffle feathers in the game.
To be fair, you haven't actually given any reasoning on me or Arch. I figured your questioning me after your naked vote was going to lead to an explanation, but nothing yet. And you literally haven't said anything about Arch. You asked Rhand and DC what they thought of one of his posts, but have said nothing one way or the other for yourself.
You did, however, say you thought Antny's vote doesn't make sense from town, where does he fall then?
The reason for you is out there. It's just not flat out said in a post.
Arch is on my list because of his lack of play. And the excuse given few posts later: "I'm trying something different" (paraphrased...) doesn't help his cause.
I had forgotten about Antny because her play has been lacking in comparison to what I remember. I still don't like the vote.
@Iso
You mentioned rational town would not have made that vote and I agree. However, Arch came across as being irrational with his vote since his behavior is easily recognizable as being overly frustrated with you since you are not complying to what he wanted. I'm not saying that is Arch is Town, but there is a logical stand point for why that vote could be made by a Town member.
Unvote Vote: Hawk
We should be lynching hawk today. There is no doubt in mind that he is Scum.
Literally taking off on a plane, please wait til later when I will go exploring first
Also **** you guys for hammering him early, if you guys hadn't done that he would NOT have been mislynched
Qq
Yeah, he literally didn't want to lynch Kam because his role name was mentioned in his flavor text...
So again, I think it's safe to say all of these are "atrocious" given your standard and less transparent than my views. I'm saying I feel that if it had been Rhand, Citric, Void, or Seppel at L-2 when you replaced in you would be using the same reasoning on any of them. And that could only be a non-town mindset.
Something actually occurred to me while digging up these quotes though; since you are the hawk slot and I was pushing hawk yesterDay, your attack could actually be coming from knowing you are town and seeing that I wanted to lynch your slot yesterDay you assume that I am scum. In fact, I need to check something...
OK. So yeah, you said everyone is scum if they aren't voting on the Kam wagon, then looking at the people pushing your wagon before the Kam wagon, I'm the only one on both lists. So pretty much you are voting me because I voted you. Hmmm, I need to think about this more. Like I said above, I can see why you would think this as town, but I can also see scum motivation for it.
emo read pending.
Still want to lynch Seppel or willing to lynch Citric as a consolation.
Mod: Is a deadline a no lynch or majority vote lynch?
Hunger, it has nothing to do with Hawk. Hawk did a miserable job yesterday (seriously, hunting town?) and I won't be defending it. With Iso dead the list of potential scum is very narrow even at random (seppel, rhand, void, citric, and you) and made it a great wagon to look at with my methodology. You vote placement was the worst, and you voted while pushing Hawk harder than KA, and then you swung back when it was easiest to. You defense has been a cavalcade of OMGUS and deflection and you tossed out things like "I may be a doc or cop" or "DCIII pointed out that I had a good vote on KA!" I don't think you are town and I don't need to present a case on why other players are less scummy than you.
@Citric: What exactly do you find suspicious in Hunger?
@Void: Want to give me tl;dr why you want to lynch Hunger? (I've read #1070, but the point gets a bit lost in that wall of text)
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
As DC already pointed out, this is bs. I believe I was one of the first people to start pushing Kam and other than Iso I might be the only person that actually gave reasons why. Why are you alright with everyone else that lynched him having little to no reasoning? What in particular is so bad about my reasoning on Kam? Blanket statements are easy. Show why my contribution is atrocious and why no one elses is.
Seriously, this is how scum responds to pressure. DCIII's questions are at least trying to pry into why he thinks I am scum, Hunger is rephrasing the question as unique content to deflect from himself onto other people on Kam's wagon and using WIFOM to say "as scum I would not have given as much reason as I did".
I don’t think there’s any way that Emo is town.
Here he juxtaposes my objection to him with Hunger’s by saying that "at least” mine looks better for trying to look into his mindset but that Hunger is trying to create WIFOM by saying that his reasons were better than other people on the Kami wagon, then he later says that we were overselling Hunger's scum hunting, implying that I have a vested interest in misrepresenting Hunger's actions, which is disconnected from this post where he talks about how I was trying to pry into why I think he's scum. I hadn’t posted between then.
1228 is a scummy case. He says that Hunger was patting himself on his back for saying "this is more of what I haven't liked about Kami," and he omits Hunger's point prior to his voting about scum being more worried about town power than town being worried about scum power roles.
I also thought it was off that Kami was against sharing information earlier in the game but then took to that task later on because it looked like he was concerned about how everyone was perceiving him and trying to overcompensate, but Emo tries to waive away that point from Hunger by calling it horrible scum hunting and saying that KA was following a democratic process, the implication being that of course Kami would start doing what everyone else wanted when that's an assumption that's only clear in hindsight and I don't think is normally true of a town player who feels so strongly about something.
but my biggest beef is that I think Emo is intentionally missing the point surrounding my concern with him; which is that his problem was with how Hunger approached the Kami wagon and that he said that Hunger added nothing new to the wagon - but he doesn’t seem worried about anyone else who was on it – all of whom were more discreet about their reasoning and added less content. He isn’t asking them about why, or pressuring them, or doing much other than focusing on pushing Hunger. And when I asked him what he thought about those other players, he dodged me, saying that it was pointless bickering and that it created WIFOM, which it wasn’t and didn’t. If he was town, I can't see him having concern or pushing back answering that question because he’d have already thought about it when he was analyzing the votes on Kami and finding Hunger's to be the worst.
Mod: Is a deadline a no lynch or majority vote lynch?
Hunger, it has nothing to do with Hawk. Hawk did a miserable job yesterday (seriously, hunting town?) and I won't be defending it. With Iso dead the list of potential scum is very narrow even at random (seppel, rhand, void, citric, and you) and made it a great wagon to look at with my methodology. You vote placement was the worst, and you voted while pushing Hawk harder than KA, and then you swung back when it was easiest to. You defense has been a cavalcade of OMGUS and deflection and you tossed out things like "I may be a doc or cop" or "DCIII pointed out that I had a good vote on KA!" I don't think you are town and I don't need to present a case on why other players are less scummy than you.
The "I may be a doc or a cop" was speculation from Hunger in response to Ika's question to him about what he thought his role was. Emo tries to paint it like it was an original thought by Hunger used in his own defense.
Also, my point was never that Hunger was doing great scum hunting, it was that his reasoning for voting Kami was transparent and added more to the wagon than the others, but Emo took issue with him alone for adding nothing new to the wagon. I think Emo wanted to get on the wagon when he did but his reasons didn't consider what other folks were doing, which is why he got so defensive when I was asking him to give me his thoughts on the rest of the wagon.
Both of the above ignore the context behind what we were saying.
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This game state is gross. Read Emo's approach to Hunger, look at who is driving Hunger's wagon and why, look at the Kami wagon and read my cases on Citric and Hawk/Emo, and then vote for Citric or Emo, please.
Here he juxtaposes my objection to him with Hunger’s by saying that "at least” mine looks better for trying to look into his mindset but that Hunger is trying to create WIFOM by saying that his reasons were better than other people on the Kami wagon, then he later says that we were overselling Hunger's scum hunting, implying that I have a vested interest in misrepresenting Hunger's actions, which is disconnected from this post where he talks about how I was trying to pry into why I think he's scum. I hadn’t posted between then.
I barely understand this ramble. I hate to do it, but I am breaking it into small peices to explain how it makes no sense:
Here he juxtaposes my objection to him with Hunger’s by saying that "at least” mine looks better for trying to look into his mindset but that Hunger is trying to create WIFOM by saying that his reasons were better than other people on the Kami wagon
He is. Hunger explicitly isn't talking about his wagon to find out why I am looking at him over the others, you are.
I never said I did an amazing job of scumhunting and casing Kam (in fact I even believe I said I have been doing a pretty poor job of scumhunting, and found it funny that Seppel attacked me for being MORE involved than in my other town games). I said I actually gave some reasoning unlike most of the people on his wagon. The fact that you are attacking me for not having a super strong case, while ignoring everyone else seems opportunistic and is just a reason to jump on my wagon when I was at L-2.
He is literally saying "Why would I, as scum, post the way I have when the rest of KA's wagon barely posted at all!" There is no clearer definition of WIFOM than that. Does that make it clear that I see a different perspective between you two? You think Hunger added to the KA case and blah blah blah and Hunger is deflecting onto others to not be lynched. I cannot make it even more clear than this and nor should I have to. I don't find you asking dumb poorly worded questions scummy, I find Hunger's push against his wagon scummy.
Why do I say your question is dumb and "at least" you attempted to scum hunt? It does not matter whatsoever how much content someone has when the content they have is scummy. It doesn't matter what other people's posts are lacking when he is making scummy posts. I'm not proving the rest of the wagon is townies, I am proving Hunger is scum. You want me to answer for cases that A) I would never look for and B) have no good answer because most of the players kept their thoughts close to their chest. You will nebver hear me use words like "townslip" or "<insert plyer here> looks townie" without concrete information because when scum play correctly they appear like they are town. Worse yet thinking things like "<insert plsyer here> is town" creates a bias that is hard to overcome. And considering the volume of confirmation bias in all of your posts, you should pay attention to that.
then he later says that we were overselling Hunger's scum hunting, implying that I have a vested interest in misrepresenting Hunger's actions, which is disconnected from this post where he talks about how I was trying to pry into why I think he's scum.
Why on Earth would you think I was saying anything more than you were wrong? There is no reason to be so sensitive that me saying you are wrong about how Hunger's transparant thoughts on the wagon have any meaning or that his contribution was meaningful.
1228 is a scummy case. He says that Hunger was patting himself on his back for saying "this is more of what I haven't liked about Kami," and he omits Hunger's point prior to his voting about scum being more worried about town power than town being worried about scum power roles.
I think Iso is town. I still disagree about dumping out info, though. First, narrowing down locations for scum to find grimoires is bad, even if we also help town find grimoires - I think the typical balance of such games is that one scum power role is stronger than one town power role.Second, by declaring the information, you're narrowing down the field of activated town power roles for scum to kill.
I don't see the difference Iso is claiming in ika's posts. This ika feels just like the ika I saw at the start of UT. So I have a town lean there as well. That said, if you two could lighten up on the argument, that would be great. We need to get interaction from everyone else too.
Bolded part: Finally something from you that I like.
Btw, do you guys agree with the underlined part? I don't know the meta here, so I can't comment at all, but I'd like to hear other's opinions about it.
It depends on the game and the role I think, but in general I wouldn't say that it's typically the case, no. Town don't typically fear scum PR as much as scum fear town PR. In fact, a lot of the time scum PR's can be a liability.
Please let me know how you think brining this up is relevant to what I said at all? How does this even relate to his case against KA?
KA is even saying that it sets the scum up to kill power roles and lets the scum get their power, but Hunger only focuses on the scum getting their power roles side of the statement because he was answering Bur's statement and not addressign KA whatsoever.
I also thought it was off that Kami was against sharing information earlier in the game but then took to that task later on because it looked like he was concerned about how everyone was perceiving him and trying to overcompensate, but Emo tries to waive away that point from Hunger by calling it horrible scum hunting and saying that KA was following a democratic process, the implication being that of course Kami would start doing what everyone else wanted when that's an assumption that's only clear in hindsight and I don't think is normally true of a town player who feels so strongly about something.
This is spectacularly dense. I have no idea hwo you wrote this out and thought you had some sort of good point here. YOu do know I am actively criticizing your scum hunting methodology as you are defending another scum hunting methodology that was completely proven wrong. What are you trying to say? That you know better than I do because you were there, man?
If the majority makes a decision to open up their actions and be transparant, why would KA go againt that decision? Town or scum would obviously go along with the town, it's literally the one choice that makes any sort of logical sense. KA stubbornly clinging to his position out of sheer emotion is poor playing period, but saying your position and then going along with the players' decision is good playing period.
Why are you defending Hunger on KA's wagon across multiple posts and then saying I am doing something wrong by saying that you are overselling Hunger's contributions to KA's wagon?
but my biggest beef is that I think Emo is intentionally missing the point surrounding my concern with him; which is that his problem was with how Hunger approached the Kami wagon and that he said that Hunger added nothing new to the wagon - but he doesn’t seem worried about anyone else who was on it – all of whom were more discreet about their reasoning and added less content. He isn’t asking them about why, or pressuring them, or doing much other than focusing on pushing Hunger. And when I asked him what he thought about those other players, he dodged me, saying that it was pointless bickering and that it created WIFOM, which it wasn’t and didn’t. If he was town, I can't see him having concern or pushing back answering that question because he’d have already thought about it when he was analyzing the votes on Kami and finding Hunger's to be the worst.
I didn't dodge your question, your question was stupid and I directly told you that to you. I explained in great detail above why I don't need to explain why Hunger is the scummiest in great detail comparing him to all the other players on the wagon and then showing who would be town and who would be scum. Hunger has the worst votes, terrible logic in his voting, and his response to pressure was really poor.
The "I may be a doc or a cop" was speculation from Hunger in response to Ika's question to him about what he thought his role was. Emo tries to paint it like it was an original thought by Hunger used in his own defense.
Do you know what an original thought is? Because ika didn't speculate Hunger was a cop or doc and the Hunger agree, Hunger answered a basic question with "I'm sure I am one of the most powerful town roles in the game because I have been in the cutscenes."
Or are you saying he isn't accountable to the answers he gives to questions? Why are you defending Hunger to such an extreme?
Also, my point was never that Hunger was doing great scum hunting, it was that his reasoning for voting Kami was transparent and added more to the wagon than the others, but Emo took issue with him alone for adding nothing new to the wagon. I think Emo wanted to get on the wagon when he did but his reasons didn't consider what other folks were doing, which is why he got so defensive when I was asking him to give me his thoughts on the rest of the wagon.
What the flying ****?
What are you trying to say? That I'm scum for telling the truth about Hunger's wagon but not answering your stupid ******* question about the rest of KA's wagon? Why do I need to list reasons everyone else on KA's wagon deserves a vote less than Hunger just becasue you think Hungr posted a little bit more words without content?
What would you say that his contribution to the wagon was, and how would you differentiate it from the contribution of the other players on the wagon, for example, why did Rhand or Citric or Void think that Kami was scum (no one else please answer this)?
You do realize that you just undermined the entire premise of the quesiton by saying ******* "I never said Hunger did a good job scum hunting against KA", right? The opening line of the question is entirely formed around "I feel Hunger was a lot more transparant and added a lot more to KA's wagon than Rhand, Citric, or Void" and the actual question is "why would Hunger, as scum, have so much to say while the others, as town, have so little?"
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I don't even care if this post makes sense. DCIII, you are so biased in everything you have posted in this thread it is laughable that you are accusing me of being blind to the rest of the game in voting Hunger. How about you try and take a fresh look at this ***** because you need it.
I've been VL/A for too long to answer this.
I'm trying to get a hold on the game again before my next cruise puts me VL/A again.
I don't want to see Citric lynched purely because DCIII is at the base of that wagon. And that vote that Antny just put there looks ugly as well.
Citric needs to respond to me though. His read on me seems fabricated.
Hunger? Maybe. Need to ISO him. Will do so before deadline.
I forgot almost all my reads because so many players are the same in multiple games I'm playing :/
ika: do you really think that no-lynching is a good idea? Why?
@Bur: wpWhat do you think the best case presented today has been?
Without a doubt, DCIII's case.
The more I'm reading these arguments (from DCIII, you and Hunger), I'm feeling better about Hunger and worse about you.
If the majority makes a decision to open up their actions and be transparant, why would KA go againt that decision? Town or scum would obviously go along with the town, it's literally the one choice that makes any sort of logical sense. KA stubbornly clinging to his position out of sheer emotion is poor playing period, but saying your position and then going along with the players' decision is good playing period.
Umm... what? The way you said this makes it sound that when majority agrees on something, everyone else in the game then will always suddenly change their mind about if, even if they opposed it initially. And that just doesn't make sense, I've seen townies and mafioso opposing things majority has decided for various of reasons.
I didn't dodge your question, your question was stupid and I directly told you that to you. I explained in great detail above why I don't need to explain why Hunger is the scummiest in great detail comparing him to all the other players on the wagon and then showing who would be town and who would be scum. Hunger has the worst votes, terrible logic in his voting, and his response to pressure was really poor.
Not liking this one either. Why are you refusing to do this? If you truly think Hunger is mafia, what harm would doing this do to your case on him?
Also, how about trying to properly refute DCIII's case, instead of trying to refute most things with "that's stupid", "you are biased" or "this doesn't make sense"?
Vote: emo_pinata
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I take it back, a no lynch might make more sense. I can prove my ability overnight with Hunger and Citric and we will have the most information day 4 at LyLo instead of Day 3 LyLo.
Living it up to splitting votes between people is a lot riskier than unvote
Antny, what's your opinion on Rhand?
The first part above doesn't make any sense. How is it Wifomy to give analysis on the players who voted Kami? That's just a cop out to not have to do it.
Your case on Hunger left out reasons he suspected Kami. Then you said he added no new information to the case when he gave more reasoning than anyone else alive on the wagon, which tells me that you were looking for reasons to vote him but not considering what others were doing, and then you just avoided having to answer the question when you realized I was calling you on it.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
What do you mean by that? Which way and why?
citrus have you been reading the game? yes or no?
if your answer is yes, i want you to answer your own question right now
if the answer is no, then why are you not reading the game
Why did you stop pushing Seppel to justify his vote on me and cover up the holes that you said you saw?
What do you think of my rebuttal to Seppel's case on me in which I pretty much shut down all of his arguments?
What do you think of emo's reasons against me?
Why are you voting me, especially without following up on your recent lines of questioning? Answer these questions. If I'm getting lynched I want you to be accountable for it with reasoning.
As DC already pointed out, this is bs. I believe I was one of the first people to start pushing Kam and other than Iso I might be the only person that actually gave reasons why. Why are you alright with everyone else that lynched him having little to no reasoning? What in particular is so bad about my reasoning on Kam? Blanket statements are easy. Show why my contribution is atrocious and why no one elses is.
You saying I voted against my own meta is entirely out of context. When I said that I also said I prefer role analysis and I hate Day 1. Obviously role analysis isn't really a thing on D1 with no claims or flips. Also, my vote on Kam was on page 12, over a week into the game, I wouldn't say that that's super early.
You saying my big appeal is to let me get my ability is a blatant lie. I never used that as a reason to keep me alive, Ika asked what I thought my role might be and so I answered. I never once implied that means you should keep me alive for it because it's a total guess on my part.
My response is over the top because no one voting me had given any reasons why that actually hold up to the simpliest questioning. Then when I questioned Ika and Citric they both ignored it and when I shut Seppel down he doesn't reply and says he is done and everyone else ignores it. I'm pissed, of course I am going to go over the top. And I also stated I am aware that there is almost no chance that the entire scum team is on my wagon, but someone pushing this wagon is scum (hint: pretty sure it's Seppel) so that's where I'm looking. Also, it's how I react to pressure on me when I know that it's bs.
Nice reply to me shutting down your arguments. I'll just take that as a you have no response because you are full of ***** as I have been saying the entire time.
@everyone - Read the post in which I refute Seppel's points with quotes that even show he doesn't know what he's talking about. Then look at this response.
@DC - I like that case on Citric. I think there is a solid chance of him being scum, but I still think Seppel is more likely. Do you think Citric and Seppel could both be scum where there votes are on my wagon? Join me and Antny on Seppel?
So you were going to completely clear him based on flavor text? My flavor text also names someone as my compatriot, do you think the mod gave multiple people ways to town clear people that aren't mechanics based (i.e. masons)? I think this is pretty lame reasoning and you trying to justify your dramatic reproach to Kam's lynch yesterDay.
first off:
a lot of this is emotianl based responsed due to my rl stress and issues so if come off a lot harsher then normal just know its venting out.
------------------
1) what do you want emt o respond to on it? a lot of it was ended answers. also given the fact you have constantly been going "go work/busy" doesn thelp. i dont have time to sit here and wait 30 hrs for you to come and check in
2) that was more of me venting out anger at that time. and im certainly not int he mood to go back and check it now. this game has frustrated me enough alone that im really in the "IDGAF mood"
3) a lot of the case is based off how seppi plays iirc, you can argue with it all you like but vbnagain in in the "IDGAF mood"
4) hes already locked himself into a self resloving problem with his grimstone i told him to use it tonight or im agro voting him out of the gate tommorow
5) i will ask you the same question that you already answered: do you know my plan?
you said no. here what i will tell you: thers an untold plan unfolding. if you want ato try and run me up go right ahead, if anyone wants to try it tommorow go right ahead. the fact is that i have set somethign into motion long ago
2. Fair enough. I think the Seppel issue will resolve itself after I flip town anyway, and he has said he is conveniently V/LA until after deadline.
3. No, it's not based on how he plays. It's all about him asking questions that were clearly answered, and clearly making up reasoning. I don't think I mentioned his meta once, that has nothing to do with it.
5. No, I don't know your plan. Seemingly based on the replies no one does. You can talk about it all you want, but at this point it's just words, it's not doing anything to keep bringing it up.
I'm pretty sure most people just aren't even reading the game or putting in any effort. The fact that both of us have asked everyone questions and usually only get 2 or 3 replies is pretty telling. Not to mention the number of prods/near prods that have gone out (hypocritical, I know). Like, citric and emo both asked for extensions but they aren't even trying to ask questions or do anything with it. Why ask for it then if you just wanted to leave your vote parked on me and not interact? No one cares. It makes it difficult to defend myself when it's pretty clear no one even reads or thinks about my arguments and most people don't even give reasons for their votes.
One thing I do want you to respond to though; do you actually think Citric/Seppel/emo would all be on my wagon together like this if that's the scum team? It's what I have been struggling with. I think one of those three has to be scum, possibly two, but I don't think it can be all three. The problem is then the only other options to be scum that aren't on my wagon are my town reads (DC, Antny, Bur) and Rhand. So I don't know. Maybe my reads are all ****ed up, or maybe the scum team is playing risky and piling on my wagon to distance, but I can't see the town play in most of the people pushing my wagon.
Not much. Game was stalling (just like other mafia games on the site).
@Hunger: What do you think of ika/Seppel interactions?
As I've read and reread the game, everytime I start looking into those, it feels like textbook case of mafia interactions (especially form ika's side). Only thing is that it seems too obvious and that worries me, since ika and Seppel are supposed to be experienced players...
answers in bolded
you know im here right? im wondering when you will figure it out......
Did you realize I was VL/A when you wrote this?
-----
These are the rest of Hunger's transparent thoughts on KA:
Riveting. Pats himself on the back for voting KA earlier, and then pushes a horrible case for scum again. This time by saying KA agreeing to the go along with a democratic plan is scummy. Obviously this vote is fine because he was so transparent in his case against KA.
-----
I want everyone to notice how much DCIII and Hunger are overselling Hunger's scum hunting on Day 1.
the you should already have an answer to that question if you are reading...
im refering to the question you asked void a while back.
^this is what im refering to.
if you have been reading you would know his answer already
So what is your read on me knowing I was vl/a?
"Well? Will it open for you?"
Lady Samantha turns away from the sealed door she is trying to open and faces the source of the question. "Nay... the sigil holds it fast. How fare you?"
Lady Neesa motions to the door behind her, from which she had just exited. "T'was a simple workshop."
Samantha walks down a flight of stone steps to approach her compatriot. "I mean your men... how many lost?"
"Ah, the battle you mean... The city is ours, dearie." Neesa responds, but she hesitates before continuing. "More or less..."
"Still no contact from Tieger?"
"Nay," Neesa sighs as she thinks of her partner. "I intend to search for him when the fighting cools."
Samantha replies with concern. "Are you certain that is a good idea? The dead walk in greater numbers as the day wanes... and they will walk beneath the stars when eventide comes."
"I know," Neesa solemnly answers. "But I will not rest until I know what has become of him."
"But Neesa, no training could prepare one for this..."
With frustration, Neesa snaps back, "Would you do differently should Guildenstern vanish??"
"No, it's not that! I just..."
"War is no time to lose your nerve, Samantha."
A third voice resonates from a distance.
"Indeed. Control your fear, lest you be controlled in its stead."
"Romeo..."
Guildenstern approaches the two women with nothing but the business at hand on his mind. "Sydney's lot have caught wind of our little foray and summoned their dark brood to repel us. They summon, yet they cannot command. Soon, the paling that holds the dark in Leá Monde will fall."
"He must be stopped..."
"Yes, Neesa," Guildenstern responds as he puts a hand upon her shoulder. "Remember, that is our priority. I know you worry for Tieger, but we must act now."
Neesa nods and salutes, then heads off to the East to gather her troops. Guildenstern turns his attention to his lover.
"What ails you, Samantha?"
"I understand not Sydney's intentions... what he does defies nature's order."
"Think not of him." he responds as he gazes off into the setting sun. "Come. We have much to do."
--------------------
Votecount 2.5:
CitricBase (1) - DCIII
Hunger (4) - Void, emo_pinata, ika42, Seppel
Seppel (2) - Antny223, Hunger
Not voting: Bur, Rhand, CitricBase
--------------------
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
--------------------
Reminder: The Day 2 deadline is in a little over 48 hours.
Here is what the rest of the (still living) wagon on Kam had to say about him:
- Iso was true claiming scum and Iso is probably bussing Kam.
- Kam said scum want to find their grimoires so we shouldn't give them info.
That's it. After that he only votes Kam because based on his poll he was one of the people that was lynchable. Compelling stuff.
So again, I think it's safe to say all of these are "atrocious" given your standard and less transparent than my views. I'm saying I feel that if it had been Rhand, Citric, Void, or Seppel at L-2 when you replaced in you would be using the same reasoning on any of them. And that could only be a non-town mindset.
Something actually occurred to me while digging up these quotes though; since you are the hawk slot and I was pushing hawk yesterDay, your attack could actually be coming from knowing you are town and seeing that I wanted to lynch your slot yesterDay you assume that I am scum. In fact, I need to check something...
OK. So yeah, you said everyone is scum if they aren't voting on the Kam wagon, then looking at the people pushing your wagon before the Kam wagon, I'm the only one on both lists. So pretty much you are voting me because I voted you. Hmmm, I need to think about this more. Like I said above, I can see why you would think this as town, but I can also see scum motivation for it.
emo read pending.
Still want to lynch Seppel or willing to lynch Citric as a consolation.
Hunger, it has nothing to do with Hawk. Hawk did a miserable job yesterday (seriously, hunting town?) and I won't be defending it. With Iso dead the list of potential scum is very narrow even at random (seppel, rhand, void, citric, and you) and made it a great wagon to look at with my methodology. You vote placement was the worst, and you voted while pushing Hawk harder than KA, and then you swung back when it was easiest to. You defense has been a cavalcade of OMGUS and deflection and you tossed out things like "I may be a doc or cop" or "DCIII pointed out that I had a good vote on KA!" I don't think you are town and I don't need to present a case on why other players are less scummy than you.
I can't believe I forgot to put that in the rules.
citus needs to move his vote back now.......
with pluarlisty deadline i find this to be a lot more fun and intresting
hunger would you do emo-lynch?
I like the fact we have plurality lynches
@Void: Want to give me tl;dr why you want to lynch Hunger? (I've read #1070, but the point gets a bit lost in that wall of text)
Two lynches would be excellent if possible, but that's not what the mod said.
Answer please Citric.
I don’t think there’s any way that Emo is town.
Here he juxtaposes my objection to him with Hunger’s by saying that "at least” mine looks better for trying to look into his mindset but that Hunger is trying to create WIFOM by saying that his reasons were better than other people on the Kami wagon, then he later says that we were overselling Hunger's scum hunting, implying that I have a vested interest in misrepresenting Hunger's actions, which is disconnected from this post where he talks about how I was trying to pry into why I think he's scum. I hadn’t posted between then.
1228 is a scummy case. He says that Hunger was patting himself on his back for saying "this is more of what I haven't liked about Kami," and he omits Hunger's point prior to his voting about scum being more worried about town power than town being worried about scum power roles.
I also thought it was off that Kami was against sharing information earlier in the game but then took to that task later on because it looked like he was concerned about how everyone was perceiving him and trying to overcompensate, but Emo tries to waive away that point from Hunger by calling it horrible scum hunting and saying that KA was following a democratic process, the implication being that of course Kami would start doing what everyone else wanted when that's an assumption that's only clear in hindsight and I don't think is normally true of a town player who feels so strongly about something.
but my biggest beef is that I think Emo is intentionally missing the point surrounding my concern with him; which is that his problem was with how Hunger approached the Kami wagon and that he said that Hunger added nothing new to the wagon - but he doesn’t seem worried about anyone else who was on it – all of whom were more discreet about their reasoning and added less content. He isn’t asking them about why, or pressuring them, or doing much other than focusing on pushing Hunger. And when I asked him what he thought about those other players, he dodged me, saying that it was pointless bickering and that it created WIFOM, which it wasn’t and didn’t. If he was town, I can't see him having concern or pushing back answering that question because he’d have already thought about it when he was analyzing the votes on Kami and finding Hunger's to be the worst.
Look at this quote:
The "I may be a doc or a cop" was speculation from Hunger in response to Ika's question to him about what he thought his role was. Emo tries to paint it like it was an original thought by Hunger used in his own defense.
Also, my point was never that Hunger was doing great scum hunting, it was that his reasoning for voting Kami was transparent and added more to the wagon than the others, but Emo took issue with him alone for adding nothing new to the wagon. I think Emo wanted to get on the wagon when he did but his reasons didn't consider what other folks were doing, which is why he got so defensive when I was asking him to give me his thoughts on the rest of the wagon.
Both of the above ignore the context behind what we were saying.
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This game state is gross. Read Emo's approach to Hunger, look at who is driving Hunger's wagon and why, look at the Kami wagon and read my cases on Citric and Hawk/Emo, and then vote for Citric or Emo, please.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
vote critic
i rather have no-lynch or his now after this recent development
Vote: Citric
I won't be around much this weekend but I might be able to get back online to change the vote tomorrow, no promises.
He is. Hunger explicitly isn't talking about his wagon to find out why I am looking at him over the others, you are. He is literally saying "Why would I, as scum, post the way I have when the rest of KA's wagon barely posted at all!" There is no clearer definition of WIFOM than that. Does that make it clear that I see a different perspective between you two? You think Hunger added to the KA case and blah blah blah and Hunger is deflecting onto others to not be lynched. I cannot make it even more clear than this and nor should I have to. I don't find you asking dumb poorly worded questions scummy, I find Hunger's push against his wagon scummy.
Why do I say your question is dumb and "at least" you attempted to scum hunt? It does not matter whatsoever how much content someone has when the content they have is scummy. It doesn't matter what other people's posts are lacking when he is making scummy posts. I'm not proving the rest of the wagon is townies, I am proving Hunger is scum. You want me to answer for cases that A) I would never look for and B) have no good answer because most of the players kept their thoughts close to their chest. You will nebver hear me use words like "townslip" or "<insert plyer here> looks townie" without concrete information because when scum play correctly they appear like they are town. Worse yet thinking things like "<insert plsyer here> is town" creates a bias that is hard to overcome. And considering the volume of confirmation bias in all of your posts, you should pay attention to that. Why on Earth would you think I was saying anything more than you were wrong? There is no reason to be so sensitive that me saying you are wrong about how Hunger's transparant thoughts on the wagon have any meaning or that his contribution was meaningful.
For the record, I did read that post: Please let me know how you think brining this up is relevant to what I said at all? How does this even relate to his case against KA?
KA is even saying that it sets the scum up to kill power roles and lets the scum get their power, but Hunger only focuses on the scum getting their power roles side of the statement because he was answering Bur's statement and not addressign KA whatsoever. This is spectacularly dense. I have no idea hwo you wrote this out and thought you had some sort of good point here. YOu do know I am actively criticizing your scum hunting methodology as you are defending another scum hunting methodology that was completely proven wrong. What are you trying to say? That you know better than I do because you were there, man?
If the majority makes a decision to open up their actions and be transparant, why would KA go againt that decision? Town or scum would obviously go along with the town, it's literally the one choice that makes any sort of logical sense. KA stubbornly clinging to his position out of sheer emotion is poor playing period, but saying your position and then going along with the players' decision is good playing period.
Why are you defending Hunger on KA's wagon across multiple posts and then saying I am doing something wrong by saying that you are overselling Hunger's contributions to KA's wagon? I didn't dodge your question, your question was stupid and I directly told you that to you. I explained in great detail above why I don't need to explain why Hunger is the scummiest in great detail comparing him to all the other players on the wagon and then showing who would be town and who would be scum. Hunger has the worst votes, terrible logic in his voting, and his response to pressure was really poor. Do you know what an original thought is? Because ika didn't speculate Hunger was a cop or doc and the Hunger agree, Hunger answered a basic question with "I'm sure I am one of the most powerful town roles in the game because I have been in the cutscenes."
Or are you saying he isn't accountable to the answers he gives to questions? Why are you defending Hunger to such an extreme? What the flying ****?
What are you trying to say? That I'm scum for telling the truth about Hunger's wagon but not answering your stupid ******* question about the rest of KA's wagon? Why do I need to list reasons everyone else on KA's wagon deserves a vote less than Hunger just becasue you think Hungr posted a little bit more words without content?
You asked a terrible question: You do realize that you just undermined the entire premise of the quesiton by saying ******* "I never said Hunger did a good job scum hunting against KA", right? The opening line of the question is entirely formed around "I feel Hunger was a lot more transparant and added a lot more to KA's wagon than Rhand, Citric, or Void" and the actual question is "why would Hunger, as scum, have so much to say while the others, as town, have so little?"
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I don't even care if this post makes sense. DCIII, you are so biased in everything you have posted in this thread it is laughable that you are accusing me of being blind to the rest of the game in voting Hunger. How about you try and take a fresh look at this ***** because you need it.
I've been VL/A for too long to answer this.
I'm trying to get a hold on the game again before my next cruise puts me VL/A again.
I don't want to see Citric lynched purely because DCIII is at the base of that wagon. And that vote that Antny just put there looks ugly as well.
Citric needs to respond to me though. His read on me seems fabricated.
Hunger? Maybe. Need to ISO him. Will do so before deadline.
I forgot almost all my reads because so many players are the same in multiple games I'm playing :/
ika: do you really think that no-lynching is a good idea? Why?
Without a doubt, DCIII's case.
The more I'm reading these arguments (from DCIII, you and Hunger), I'm feeling better about Hunger and worse about you.
Umm... what? The way you said this makes it sound that when majority agrees on something, everyone else in the game then will always suddenly change their mind about if, even if they opposed it initially. And that just doesn't make sense, I've seen townies and mafioso opposing things majority has decided for various of reasons.
Not liking this one either. Why are you refusing to do this? If you truly think Hunger is mafia, what harm would doing this do to your case on him?
Also, how about trying to properly refute DCIII's case, instead of trying to refute most things with "that's stupid", "you are biased" or "this doesn't make sense"?
Vote: emo_pinata
yes i think it is for ~reasons~
i think when you read up fully you will understand a lot more.
i need to double-check vc now that people just made a bunch of swaps
vote emo
lets play musical votes
9 alive -> no lynch
8 alive -> LyLo
10 alive -> no lynch
9 alive -> lynch
7 alive -> LyLo
10 alive -> lynch
8 alive -> LyLo
I take it back, a no lynch might make more sense. I can prove my ability overnight with Hunger and Citric and we will have the most information day 4 at LyLo instead of Day 3 LyLo.
Living it up to splitting votes between people is a lot riskier than unvote
CitricBase (1) - DCIII
emo_pinata (2) - Bur, ika42
Hunger (3) - Void, Seppel, CitricBase
Seppel (2) - Antny223, Hunger
Not voting: Rhand, emo_pinata
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With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.