DCIII, is your Mason chat night only or day and night? If it's the latter, has there been any indication that something is weird with Bur toDay?
I said it my claim that we have day chat.
I don't really think that DCIII/Bur make sense as scum, but one could potentially be cult leader, methinks.
@Hansa: I really doubt that. I asked Mod for confirmation (since the initial PM just said "Maquis Mason"), and he confirmed that we both are town.
I really doubt that even 'Rax would be such an bastard to make one of us into a Queen...
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
DCIII, is your Mason chat night only or day and night? If it's the latter, has there been any indication that something is weird with Bur toDay?
I said it my claim that we have day chat.
I don't really think that DCIII/Bur make sense as scum, but one could potentially be cult leader, methinks.
@Hansa: I really doubt that. I asked Mod for confirmation (since the initial PM just said "Maquis Mason"), and he confirmed that we both are town.
I really doubt that even 'Rax would be such an bastard to make one of us into a Queen...
What I meant was that I thought it could potentially be a gambit in which one of you is cult leader and the other is a cultist, meaning you aren't actually masons. Given your reaction, though, I don't think that's the case.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I waited this long because it's usually a bad idea to wait too long for a claim, but it's also a bad idea to claim too early. I was gonna wait until one day before 2 votes +number of scum=lynch threshhold to claim if I hadn't already. Then we'd have a conftown doublevoter in lylo.
@Cultist: To be fair, if the queen was a DV, you wouldn't be able to tell unless they decided to doublevote. I'm not a cultist, btw.
Unvote since DCIII is town and I'm terrible at this game. Unless that is a scum mason gambit. but I have no proof.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I waited this long because it's usually a bad idea to wait too long for a claim, but it's also a bad idea to claim too early. I was gonna wait until one day before 2 votes +number of scum=lynch threshhold to claim if I hadn't already. Then we'd have a conftown doublevoter in lylo.
@Cultist: To be fair, if the queen was a DV, you wouldn't be able to tell unless they decided to doublevote. I'm not a cultist, btw.
Unvote since DCIII is town and I'm terrible at this game. Unless that is a scum mason gambit. but I have no proof.
Nonononono. Stopstopstopstop.
Put your votes (both of them) back. I don't care on who, just so that you are voting someone when the next votecount comes.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Q appears in a flash of light after seeing the latest few posts. He looks around, centers his view on Killjoy and snaps his fingers. Two more flashes of light appear, fading away to reveal a second Killjoy and a voting booth. Both Killjoys then wait their turn, mark their paper ballots, and put them into the ballot box. The box fills with light, the ballots disappear & reappear in Q's hand. Q says "Oh. *****. Really? Four hundred years & you mortals are still doing this crap?" while pointing at the two ballots, which both have Pat Buchanan scrawled into the write-in blank in Klingon.
Q blinks the ballots out of existence, gives the Killjoys new ones & this time they both come back with votes for DC III. "Finally, some sense around here. Why does it always take a revote to get someone to vote for someone who's actually on the damn station? This is why I hate politics. Time to go..." Q snaps his fingers, and the ballot box and second Killjoy disappear, leaving the first one wondering what the hell just happened, but confident that his second vote worked properly.
I have played enough games recently with weird roles to not discount an ascetic cult leader. It wouldn't be unbalanced if Karn had some qualifier before he could recruit. I think that would eliminate the "feelbads" for techies that would come from a random leader vig in a game with so much killing power, as well as explain the lack of cultist flips so far.
Of course he could be scum, with Kpaca just trying to distance. Either way Karn's role is unprovable, and he hasn't een towny enough to back it up.
Vote Karn
I'm also questionable about KJ. He's a double voter which is good enough for town, but if cult is ever proven then I could see him as scum.
Wheat is my last choice, but I'd like to get confirmation of a cult one way or another before we lynch him.
Rhand Town or Drone
KamikazeArchon Town, Scum, Queen, Drone
Hansanator Town (I don'r believe he would have been recruited due to his play. He was likely to be lynched at some point prior to his claim)
Wildfire393 Town
LnGrrrR Town, Scum, Drone
Tammy The Cold Monarch Town, scum, Drone (Tammy was a person I did not personally dislike the play of, but TCM could be fake claiming a random cop.)
Bur Town, Scum (Aligned with DCIII)(don't think he would have been recruited due to play)
Wheat_Grinder Town, Scum (I've thought he's town all game. I'm terrible at this game, so he's probably the Ultra Mega SuperMafia HyperBadass Unicorn Tamer that I thought was town.)(Wildfire seems to think he's not lying about his ability, however)
Arianrhod Town, Scum, Drone (Gut is tingling about him. Me no likey that feeling.)
Sir Karn Town, Queen
DCIII Town, Scum, Drone (Aligned with Bur)
Now, Bur claims to have been breadcrumbing earlier with the whole 'bricks' thing. Can anyone confirm this? If it's true, then they're both Town for sure. I'm too lazy to go back and look for it right now.
So we have:
Hans
DCIII
Rhand
Wildfire
Bur
DCIII
KA
LnGrrr
TCM
Wheat (++)
Arian
Karn
The ++ is because I think Wheat is town still. I'll reread him later.
I think we need to lynch one of KA or Karn to kill the queen, and then others will die if this game is like the last, I think. I actually think Karn is more likely than KA right now.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
(I've thought he's town all game. I'm terrible at this game, so he's probably the Ultra Mega SuperMafia HyperBadass Unicorn Tamer that I thought was town.)(Wildfire seems to think he's not lying about his ability, however)
The semester finishes tomorrow so I'll be posting more soon but I couldn't not respond to this.
If someone offered me that job position IRL, I would accept IMMEDIATELY, no reservations.
I know Karn is untargetable. I just don't out it out completely that that eliminates him from being the queen. I mean, given Kpaca's RB flip he could be scum too, but I don't think him being a queen is out of the question.
Too many If's. There's no reason to assume that the Queen should necessarily function as she did before.
It is worth looking back to see any kind of discrepancies in the votecounts, though. I did find it strange that Killjoy didn't unveil his double voter status until D4 upon massclaim.
I think it's quite obvious that you have to hide that with a borg queen around. Recruiting him makes the queen's life easier.
I am pretty sure Wheat is either town and telling the truth or queen. Which means we do have a queen.
I don't see scum fakeclaiming that.
I think it's quite obvious that you have to hide that with a borg queen around. Recruiting him makes the queen's life easier.
I am pretty sure Wheat is either town and telling the truth or queen. Which means we do have a queen.
I don't see scum fakeclaiming that.
Anyways, I read already during the night Teiakpacamancer-slot's interactions and I'll get to them, when I have time and means to write a proper post, so expect more information later today.
Here's where Bur "banged head against a brick wall" (unless I missed it somewhere else), it was in response to a post of mine suggesting Bur wasn't cleared. It's subtle, but it's a breadcrumb. DCIII and Bur also used similar languages in their read lists when describing why each other were town.
I could see Wheat fake-claiming if it was a provided fake claim.
Been busier than busy this week and will likely be so for the next week. I've done the quickest of skim, but I need to go back and read through the claim and reactions.
But,
vote teradas
I didn't not vote yesterday because I couldn't. I'll leave that until a vote count so you stop worrying about that. I hope to be back tonight!
This is something I was reminded of when I was looking back for the Brick wall post. Anyone care to comment? This appears to be something that TCM did not address in his claim.
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Too many If's. There's no reason to assume that the Queen should necessarily function as she did before.
It is worth looking back to see any kind of discrepancies in the votecounts, though. I did find it strange that Killjoy didn't unveil his double voter status until D4 upon massclaim.
I think it's quite obvious that you have to hide that with a borg queen around. Recruiting him makes the queen's life easier.
I am pretty sure Wheat is either town and telling the truth or queen. Which means we do have a queen.
I don't see scum fakeclaiming that.
I agree. Only case where I could Wheat claiming something like that as a mafia would be where that fakeclaim was given to her, or that she knows that there is no Queen.
Most likely town:
Killjoy (doublevoter) - confirmed
Rhand (vanilla) - can't be confirmed
Neutral:
Karn (untargetable) - confirmed
Kami (rolecop) - "confirmed"
Arian (vanilla miller) - not confirmed
Suspicious:
TCM (weird cop) - can't be confirmed
Wheat (recruit-preventer) - can't be confirmed
LnGr (vanilla) - can't be confirmed
Wheat and LnGr: I looked at kpacateiamancer slot's interactions and I'm pretty sure that either LnGr or Wheat is their partner, but I doubt both of them are.
TCM's actions make no sense. Targetting HP N1, and wanting to calibrate by targetting Rhand, instead of Arian or Wildfire makes no sense. I mean, who thinks "Oh, I'm cop. I guess I should use my shot tonight to check if our innocent child is town" or "My results make no sense. Let's target this random person, instead of this claimed miller or obv!town-vig"?
Arian: Miller starts to make less sense now that we've massclaimed. Arian said that she's not "super-miller" (that gives bad results for everything, it only affects cop-shots), but now that we know that we've only had a single "cop" and even that was KCC's JoAT. What's the point of miller, if there is nothing that it could give negative results to?
Karn: We know he's untargettable, but that role is not a indicator of any alignment.
Kami: Rolecop doesn't indicate either alignment.
Killjoy: His ability is now confirmed, and I kind of doubt mafia having a doublevoter...
Rhand: His reactions D1 to Tanarin's claim make me doubt he is lying.
Bur & DCIII - Hi guys.
Hansa - not seeing mafia!doctor doing what he did last night to Wildfire.
Wildfire - confirmed vig.
Out of those, only possibilities that make sense claim-wise for redirector are DCIII, Bur, Rhand, TCM, Wheat and LnGr. Out of those, I think TCM and Wheat are good options for lynch today.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Been busier than busy this week and will likely be so for the next week. I've done the quickest of skim, but I need to go back and read through the claim and reactions.
But,
vote teradas
I didn't not vote yesterday because I couldn't. I'll leave that until a vote count so you stop worrying about that. I hope to be back tonight!
This is something I was reminded of when I was looking back for the Brick wall post. Anyone care to comment? This appears to be something that TCM did not address in his claim
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I mean, I've been under the assumption that this game didn't even have a cop until the massclaim happened. I've felt that my role's existence was just a trace element of bastardry since I got my PM. My flavor is a terrorist with a role of miller? It's like being set up to get mislynched by the mod. Unfortunately, Taredas was the only person who could confirm me, and he's dead. You're just going to have to go off of behavior.
Wildfire's observation on TCM is relevant and needs an explanation.
What changes if TCM is scum...
I don't think anything does? Kami is less likely to be scum, which makes Wheat more likely to be scum, because I don't think that town has both Wheat's role and Kami's role. Queen is still an option for either of them.
RE@Killjoy -- I guess it makes sense to mask it with the threat of the Queen looming. Everytime I've seen a doublevoter, they've always snap claimed on D1 because it's almost universally a town role. Sandbagging it like that caught me off guard, but I can see that as a valid reason for so doing.
I can absolutely see sandbagging doublevoting if A) it's Not mandatory, and B) you aren't under pressure. It's the next best thing to an IC claim, and you can pull it when you've got a wagon rolling on you to L-2 and then do wagon analysis with it.
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I can absolutely see sandbagging doublevoting if A) it's Not mandatory, and B) you aren't under pressure. It's the next best thing to an IC claim, and you can pull it when you've got a wagon rolling on you to L-2 and then do wagon analysis with it.
Which is fair, that just hasn't been my experience.
Looked through Arianrhod. I don't see much scumminess there. He was on Teia/kpaca pretty consistently. He did have some softness in his reads (lots of "gut read" comments) in the start of the game, but even with the weird miller claim, that's not enough for a lynch.
Never mind. My other theory was that I was a borg detector, with me trying to look back at Rhand and see if there was a particular day where he just shifted momentum, making sense of the guilty verdict like Killjoy said. The issue with that is I think that role would be insanely weak, assuming the sks/mafia are immune to recruitment. In addition, there would no reason why my role name wouldn't be something along the lines of "Borg Cop", or something other than the lines of the standard cop ability.
Really important question: Are the masons confirmed town to each other via private message?
As far as not being able to vote, I have had zero notification that I am unable to vote, so I don't know what tammy meant in that quote. Vote BurMod vote count?
@Tammy: I know you're proving you can vote, but why the vote on Taredas in particular? Why didn't you vote yesterDay if you could?
i voted Taredas for two reasons. He's the person who suggested my maybe being borg because I didn't vote yesterday, and it's a vote that would matter little to anyone.
I feel like I remember talking abut my lack of vote yesterday, yesterday. I'm really annoying. I typically don't vote unless i really feel like I've got scum. Yesterday I didn't vote because while I was trying to figure out if Tan was scum, I wasn't going to pile on when there were other votes and cases as I wanted a conversation that wouldn't be hampered there. And then when it got to the point where I realized that the best day one would end with a Tan lynch, he was always around L-1 and L-2 and I didn't feel comfortable helping to end the day at that point.
Okay. On closer reading, I see how "I didn't not vote yesterday because I couldn't." could be taken to mean "I did not place a vote yesterday, but it was not because I was unable" and not the way I had interpreted it to be "I did not place a vote yesterday because I was unable".
So I guess there's not that discrepancy. That makes TCM slightly less of an auto-lynch, which I guess brings me back to Wheat, which is where my vote has been.
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The mod confirmed both Bur and I as Town to each other, yes.
My gut is saying that Kami is probably the most likely to be the Queen. I remember him making some comments earlier that I thought were too off to be scum at the time but also kind of stand out now - like saying that he thought Bur might be the Queen after he made his long borg hunting post and the role itself just doesn't jive.
TCM is probably scum because his story doesn't add up with the Tammy thinger and his comment about how to approach Wheat/Kpaca at the end of Yesterday felt like it was all over inside information. His target of Rhand also doesn't make sense, as has been pointed out.
Still don't love Whe and antsy about Karn... but feel like Queen hunting is the way we need to go right now.
I want Karn to do something because he's coasting as coasting can be.
Kami is Queen or Scum. If Kami is somehow Town, that all but necessitates Wheat being queen/scum. I don't see town having both of those roles. Maybe not either of them, but we'll cross that bridge once Kami is lynched.
Still waiting to hear a convincing reason why Kami isn't the correct choice for toDay....yet myself and DCIII are the only people on him atm.
On that note, @Mod: I should be voting Kami per #1749.
Oh also, when did dc3 / Bur first breadcrumb their roles?
There were hints of it Day 2, I believe, and DCIII got increasingly less subtle Day 3. That's where the "banging my head on a brick wall" emoji came up, as well as each listing the other as their top town read with similar language ("I can see into his heart" and "I can see into his mind")
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I have the inkling Wheat is the Queen too, but I'm curious as to why the scum would redirect me to myself when Wheat (who they'd see as town) was my publicly stated target last night. I mean, it eliminates me without spending the NK, I guess, but why not do it to me the previous Night then?
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@TCM: Question - when you get your results, are you explicitly told who it was you investigated? I.e. "You copped Rhand and got a result of 'guilty'" vs "You successfully copped last night and got a result of 'guilty'"?
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Alright let's get down to business now that I have the time.
TCM's claim (1674): Very strange claim, and a weird insanity thing going on. I wouldn't put it passed Rax to make something like this but I think it could be fake.
God Rhand's 1680 is awful; he looks really shifty when it should be obvious from TCM's claim (specifically the kpaca/Teia result) that something is borked.
I'm reasonably willing to believe KJ is town from the double vote claim (1692). I believe he would have kept it under wraps as scum.
hans (1699) is provably town from Wildfire's results.
Rhand's 1701 is also a little weird.
I think Arianrhod is trying to figure out the game and therefore my townread on him has still not changed.
Kami's role, while proven, isn't necessarily a town role at all.
Bur/DCIII are essentially confirmed town. The only way they couldn't be is if they are borg, but like I said much earlier I doubt Bur is borg. Especially from his 1763 and knowing Bur is fairly new to mafia, it's very obvious that Bur at least isn't borg at which point DCIII can't be the queen.
Re: Me being the queen: I'm biased, but it doesn't make sense objectively to me. If I was the Queen, I would need to have had knowledge that there wasn't a role like the one I claimed or I would die immediately, and I would only know either by assimilation. The only VT claims are claims that were VT from the start, and the rest are provable, with the exception of TCM's.
Re: Me being redirector/retargeter: I have no real defense against this other than to say it's not true because there's no real logic I can point to besides my interpretation of what happened. I think that the scum felt it obvious I would be targeted and therefore attempted to get an extra kill on someone who isn't easily lynched like I am at this point of the game.
@Bur 1777: Why do you think one of LnGrrrR and I is scum based on Teia/kpaca interactions? Why specifically not both?
@Wildfire 1799: Who did you kill Night 2 again? I know it's been said over and over but I can't remember it and have had enough looking back for now.
---
I think at the end of the day based on the last seven pages alone I would like to see Kami flip.
Why: I think that one of Rhand and TCM is scum. I think that one of Kami and TCM is scum. Therefore I think we should lynch Kami, and if scum lynch Rhand, and if not lynch TCM. If Kami is the queen I'm not sure if I think TCM is town or scum via dichotomy and therefore would want to lynch Rhand due to having a stronger independent feeling that he's scum based on his reaction to TCM.
I'm pretty sure Kami is either scum or queen and therefore TCM is probably town despite his weird claim; not sure who he should cop to figure it out better.
Can we use my miller role to confirm / figure out TCM somehow?
We have the following results.
HP: innocent (this is probably a bad result because she was mod-confirmed town at this point and I'm not sure how that would screw with the ability -- TCM, perhaps you can ask the mod about this?)
Kpaca: innocent -- flipped scum, was alternate reality
If my theory on TCM's ability is correct, then if he targets me, he would....hmm. That won't work. Either miller would override or he would get guilty anyway because prime reality.
I guess that doesn't really help.
The best answer actually is probably for TCM to target one of the masons. That would give us a reasonable control group to work with. I don't believe either of them claimed what reality they're from so far, which is good -- could have TCM claim his result and then the masons confirm their reality. That would give us a much more reasonable answer regarding Rhand, as well as go towards clearing the masons to the rest of us.
Observations of Cantrip/Teia/kpaca's posts:
1) Wheat is very unlikely to be scum. There was too much push on him - I think it was a genuine attempt to get him lynched, not just bussing. Queen is still possible, of course.
2) Arianrhod isn't mentioned at all. I find this odd, since a claimed miller should be pretty easy to mislynch. So why didn't they try? This increases my suspicion of Arian.
N2 I killed Rai Kerenski based off of Seppel's read on him and the fact that he "accidentally" hammered.
I think Rai was less easy of a mislynch (I thought he was town by that point anyway, can't remember who all else did) so maybe they just let it happen because of that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Unsure...I don't know that her shots were ever revealed fully. I remember her saying she used a track shot on Karn, which failed due to his asceticism. I recall her saying that she was going to keep her other shots a secret for the time, and then she died.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I said it my claim that we have day chat.
@Hansa: I really doubt that. I asked Mod for confirmation (since the initial PM just said "Maquis Mason"), and he confirmed that we both are town.
I really doubt that even 'Rax would be such an bastard to make one of us into a Queen...
What I meant was that I thought it could potentially be a gambit in which one of you is cult leader and the other is a cultist, meaning you aren't actually masons. Given your reaction, though, I don't think that's the case.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
@Cultist: To be fair, if the queen was a DV, you wouldn't be able to tell unless they decided to doublevote. I'm not a cultist, btw.
Unvote since DCIII is town and I'm terrible at this game. Unless that is a scum mason gambit. but I have no proof.
Nonononono. Stopstopstopstop.
Put your votes (both of them) back. I don't care on who, just so that you are voting someone when the next votecount comes.
Votecount 4.2 - Stardate 68424.4
Wheat - 3 - Karn, Hansanator, Wildfire
Pat Buchanan - 2 - Killjoy, Killjoy
Q blinks the ballots out of existence, gives the Killjoys new ones & this time they both come back with votes for DC III. "Finally, some sense around here. Why does it always take a revote to get someone to vote for someone who's actually on the damn station? This is why I hate politics. Time to go..." Q snaps his fingers, and the ballot box and second Killjoy disappear, leaving the first one wondering what the hell just happened, but confident that his second vote worked properly.
Votecount 4.2 - Stardate 68424.4
Wheat - 3 - Karn, Hansanator, Wildfire
DCIII - 2 - Killjoy, Killjoy
12 alive, 7 to lynch.
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Of course he could be scum, with Kpaca just trying to distance. Either way Karn's role is unprovable, and he hasn't een towny enough to back it up.
Vote Karn
I'm also questionable about KJ. He's a double voter which is good enough for town, but if cult is ever proven then I could see him as scum.
Wheat is my last choice, but I'd like to get confirmation of a cult one way or another before we lynch him.
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Rhand Town or Drone
KamikazeArchon Town, Scum, Queen, Drone
Hansanator Town (I don'r believe he would have been recruited due to his play. He was likely to be lynched at some point prior to his claim)
Wildfire393 Town
LnGrrrR Town, Scum, Drone
Tammy The Cold Monarch Town, scum, Drone (Tammy was a person I did not personally dislike the play of, but TCM could be fake claiming a random cop.)
Bur Town, Scum (Aligned with DCIII)(don't think he would have been recruited due to play)
Wheat_Grinder Town, Scum (I've thought he's town all game. I'm terrible at this game, so he's probably the Ultra Mega SuperMafia HyperBadass Unicorn Tamer that I thought was town.)(Wildfire seems to think he's not lying about his ability, however)
Arianrhod Town, Scum, Drone (Gut is tingling about him. Me no likey that feeling.)
Sir Karn Town, Queen
DCIII Town, Scum, Drone (Aligned with Bur)
Now, Bur claims to have been breadcrumbing earlier with the whole 'bricks' thing. Can anyone confirm this? If it's true, then they're both Town for sure. I'm too lazy to go back and look for it right now.
So we have:
Hans
DCIII
Rhand
Wildfire
Bur
DCIII
KA
LnGrrr
TCM
Wheat (++)
Arian
Karn
The ++ is because I think Wheat is town still. I'll reread him later.
I think we need to lynch one of KA or Karn to kill the queen, and then others will die if this game is like the last, I think. I actually think Karn is more likely than KA right now.
Unvote
and the remaining scum should be in the grey.
The semester finishes tomorrow so I'll be posting more soon but I couldn't not respond to this.
If someone offered me that job position IRL, I would accept IMMEDIATELY, no reservations.
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I think it's quite obvious that you have to hide that with a borg queen around. Recruiting him makes the queen's life easier.
I am pretty sure Wheat is either town and telling the truth or queen. Which means we do have a queen.
I don't see scum fakeclaiming that.
Here's where Bur "banged head against a brick wall" (unless I missed it somewhere else), it was in response to a post of mine suggesting Bur wasn't cleared. It's subtle, but it's a breadcrumb. DCIII and Bur also used similar languages in their read lists when describing why each other were town.
I could see Wheat fake-claiming if it was a provided fake claim.
This is something I was reminded of when I was looking back for the Brick wall post. Anyone care to comment? This appears to be something that TCM did not address in his claim.
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I agree. Only case where I could Wheat claiming something like that as a mafia would be where that fakeclaim was given to her, or that she knows that there is no Queen.
But then:
Town:
Wildfire (vig) - confirmed
Hansanator (doc) - confirmed
Bur & DCIII (masons)
Most likely town:
Killjoy (doublevoter) - confirmed
Rhand (vanilla) - can't be confirmed
Neutral:
Karn (untargetable) - confirmed
Kami (rolecop) - "confirmed"
Arian (vanilla miller) - not confirmed
Suspicious:
TCM (weird cop) - can't be confirmed
Wheat (recruit-preventer) - can't be confirmed
LnGr (vanilla) - can't be confirmed
Wheat and LnGr: I looked at kpacateiamancer slot's interactions and I'm pretty sure that either LnGr or Wheat is their partner, but I doubt both of them are.
TCM's actions make no sense. Targetting HP N1, and wanting to calibrate by targetting Rhand, instead of Arian or Wildfire makes no sense. I mean, who thinks "Oh, I'm cop. I guess I should use my shot tonight to check if our innocent child is town" or "My results make no sense. Let's target this random person, instead of this claimed miller or obv!town-vig"?
Arian: Miller starts to make less sense now that we've massclaimed. Arian said that she's not "super-miller" (that gives bad results for everything, it only affects cop-shots), but now that we know that we've only had a single "cop" and even that was KCC's JoAT. What's the point of miller, if there is nothing that it could give negative results to?
Karn: We know he's untargettable, but that role is not a indicator of any alignment.
Kami: Rolecop doesn't indicate either alignment.
Killjoy: His ability is now confirmed, and I kind of doubt mafia having a doublevoter...
Rhand: His reactions D1 to Tanarin's claim make me doubt he is lying.
Bur & DCIII - Hi guys.
Hansa - not seeing mafia!doctor doing what he did last night to Wildfire.
Wildfire - confirmed vig.
Out of those, only possibilities that make sense claim-wise for redirector are DCIII, Bur, Rhand, TCM, Wheat and LnGr. Out of those, I think TCM and Wheat are good options for lynch today.
Reposting for visibility:
This is something I was reminded of when I was looking back for the Brick wall post. Anyone care to comment? This appears to be something that TCM did not address in his claim
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Wildfire's observation on TCM is relevant and needs an explanation.
What changes if TCM is scum...
I don't think anything does? Kami is less likely to be scum, which makes Wheat more likely to be scum, because I don't think that town has both Wheat's role and Kami's role. Queen is still an option for either of them.
RE@Killjoy -- I guess it makes sense to mask it with the threat of the Queen looming. Everytime I've seen a doublevoter, they've always snap claimed on D1 because it's almost universally a town role. Sandbagging it like that caught me off guard, but I can see that as a valid reason for so doing.
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Which is fair, that just hasn't been my experience.
Looked through Arianrhod. I don't see much scumminess there. He was on Teia/kpaca pretty consistently. He did have some softness in his reads (lots of "gut read" comments) in the start of the game, but even with the weird miller claim, that's not enough for a lynch.
Really important question: Are the masons confirmed town to each other via private message?
As far as not being able to vote, I have had zero notification that I am unable to vote, so I don't know what tammy meant in that quote. Vote Bur Mod vote count?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vote Bur
Mod, vote count pretty please?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
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Wheat - 3 - Karn, Hansanator, Wildfire
Karn - 1 - LnGrrR
Bur - 1 - TCM
12 alive, 7 to lynch.
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@TCM: Yeah, it was confirmed.
I cant speak for that. Anyone want to confirm taking my vote day 1?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
She said she could have voted and chose not to.
So I guess there's not that discrepancy. That makes TCM slightly less of an auto-lynch, which I guess brings me back to Wheat, which is where my vote has been.
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My gut is saying that Kami is probably the most likely to be the Queen. I remember him making some comments earlier that I thought were too off to be scum at the time but also kind of stand out now - like saying that he thought Bur might be the Queen after he made his long borg hunting post and the role itself just doesn't jive.
TCM is probably scum because his story doesn't add up with the Tammy thinger and his comment about how to approach Wheat/Kpaca at the end of Yesterday felt like it was all over inside information. His target of Rhand also doesn't make sense, as has been pointed out.
Still don't love Whe and antsy about Karn... but feel like Queen hunting is the way we need to go right now.
I want Karn to do something because he's coasting as coasting can be.
Vote: KamikazeArchon
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
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Still waiting to hear a convincing reason why Kami isn't the correct choice for toDay....yet myself and DCIII are the only people on him atm.
On that note, @Mod: I should be voting Kami per #1749.
Fingers crossed that he's the Queen or the Redirector!Scum, because if the Queen is Wheat I don't think we get another chance to lynch him.
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My gut says Wheat is our queen. I would like to know if I have time to reread.
From the OP:
2. The day will last as long as it needs to. If discussion lags, I may impose a deadline.
There were hints of it Day 2, I believe, and DCIII got increasingly less subtle Day 3. That's where the "banging my head on a brick wall" emoji came up, as well as each listing the other as their top town read with similar language ("I can see into his heart" and "I can see into his mind")
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TCM's claim (1674): Very strange claim, and a weird insanity thing going on. I wouldn't put it passed Rax to make something like this but I think it could be fake.
God Rhand's 1680 is awful; he looks really shifty when it should be obvious from TCM's claim (specifically the kpaca/Teia result) that something is borked.
I'm reasonably willing to believe KJ is town from the double vote claim (1692). I believe he would have kept it under wraps as scum.
hans (1699) is provably town from Wildfire's results.
Rhand's 1701 is also a little weird.
I think Arianrhod is trying to figure out the game and therefore my townread on him has still not changed.
Kami's role, while proven, isn't necessarily a town role at all.
Bur/DCIII are essentially confirmed town. The only way they couldn't be is if they are borg, but like I said much earlier I doubt Bur is borg. Especially from his 1763 and knowing Bur is fairly new to mafia, it's very obvious that Bur at least isn't borg at which point DCIII can't be the queen.
Re: Me being the queen: I'm biased, but it doesn't make sense objectively to me. If I was the Queen, I would need to have had knowledge that there wasn't a role like the one I claimed or I would die immediately, and I would only know either by assimilation. The only VT claims are claims that were VT from the start, and the rest are provable, with the exception of TCM's.
Re: Me being redirector/retargeter: I have no real defense against this other than to say it's not true because there's no real logic I can point to besides my interpretation of what happened. I think that the scum felt it obvious I would be targeted and therefore attempted to get an extra kill on someone who isn't easily lynched like I am at this point of the game.
@Bur 1777: Why do you think one of LnGrrrR and I is scum based on Teia/kpaca interactions? Why specifically not both?
@Wildfire 1799: Who did you kill Night 2 again? I know it's been said over and over but I can't remember it and have had enough looking back for now.
---
I think at the end of the day based on the last seven pages alone I would like to see Kami flip.
Why: I think that one of Rhand and TCM is scum. I think that one of Kami and TCM is scum. Therefore I think we should lynch Kami, and if scum lynch Rhand, and if not lynch TCM. If Kami is the queen I'm not sure if I think TCM is town or scum via dichotomy and therefore would want to lynch Rhand due to having a stronger independent feeling that he's scum based on his reaction to TCM.
I'm pretty sure Kami is either scum or queen and therefore TCM is probably town despite his weird claim; not sure who he should cop to figure it out better.
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We have the following results.
HP: innocent (this is probably a bad result because she was mod-confirmed town at this point and I'm not sure how that would screw with the ability -- TCM, perhaps you can ask the mod about this?)
Kpaca: innocent -- flipped scum, was alternate reality
Rhand: guilty -- unknown, claimed alternate reality
If my theory on TCM's ability is correct, then if he targets me, he would....hmm. That won't work. Either miller would override or he would get guilty anyway because prime reality.
I guess that doesn't really help.
The best answer actually is probably for TCM to target one of the masons. That would give us a reasonable control group to work with. I don't believe either of them claimed what reality they're from so far, which is good -- could have TCM claim his result and then the masons confirm their reality. That would give us a much more reasonable answer regarding Rhand, as well as go towards clearing the masons to the rest of us.
1) Wheat is very unlikely to be scum. There was too much push on him - I think it was a genuine attempt to get him lynched, not just bussing. Queen is still possible, of course.
2) Arianrhod isn't mentioned at all. I find this odd, since a claimed miller should be pretty easy to mislynch. So why didn't they try? This increases my suspicion of Arian.
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I think Rai was less easy of a mislynch (I thought he was town by that point anyway, can't remember who all else did) so maybe they just let it happen because of that.
Nice OMGUS there.
Unsure...I don't know that her shots were ever revealed fully. I remember her saying she used a track shot on Karn, which failed due to his asceticism. I recall her saying that she was going to keep her other shots a secret for the time, and then she died.