If you were scum, who would you look at in the player list and earmark for the mislynch first? Just based on seeing the name, no posts having been made.
Interesting thought exercise. <snipped for irrelevance>
They felt self-conscious, so I tested. (Your response here *doesn't* feel self-conscious, so there's that.)
Votecount is wrong Prophy, apparently there are two AEs in this game?
unvote again.
Basically half of the player base is lurking already. We have strict deadlines this game people. Make posting more of a priority; don't let the witches get away with lurking.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
#33, Kamikaze: Speaking of terrible votes, yours is a prime example. There was nothing wrong with Eshnolat’s vote on Generic.
Why do you think Antny is being “excessively” defensive? Elaborate.
#39, Kamikaze: Explain why you’re suspicious of Eshnolat and Antny.
Eshnolat comes in basically voting someone for trying to move from RVS to scumhunting.
As for Antny:
What exactly do you want me to say about the self aware statement
This is excessively defensive. He's trying to placate Generic. He's not trying to find scum. Speaking of scum:
Am willing to support the AE wagon depending on how AE responds.
#54, Tanarin: “If I can see the logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea” —> This wording irks me, and doesn’t strike me as very town like. I feel like the town response would be along the lines of I’d like to see the whole discussion so we can examine it more thoroughly, but that isn’t what Tanarin said. He might be willing to support it after seeing it, with no qualification as to what would make him get on board. It’s sly sounding.
You just accused Tanarin for doing the exact same thing you just did in the previous sentence.
It's actually to do with his three posts as a transition.
There is no comment on the concept of a judge ruling on the day, it's a straight into 'do we even know if the judge is in this?'. When informed of the fact all roles are in play, we get the explainy 'let me just consult the rules' post in 11, rather than just going an looking like most people would. It's clear intent to inform us all that when he makes a statement it's because it's in the rules and not inside knowledge.
And then in 12 he highlights the judge could be a witch. Had he come in with the comment the judge could be a witch it would have felt more natural to me. But the need to tell us he's checking the rules, pointing out it's covered in the rules... It's far too self aware. And I'm also now concerned the judge could be in the witch team.
Vote Generic, for being so super aggressive. Seems a bit suspicious.
I don't see it that way at all. To sum it all up, it boils down to antny being to self aware.
As I said in post 15. There is a witch in here.(Meaning among the posters at the time)
In antnys RVS vote he has to state that he is RVn'. Sent up flags
Vote antny
And this is how scum-AE attacks townies - tone lacks sincerity.
Antny's town, AE's scum and needs to hang.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Quote from Archmage Eternal » Duel Monsters post 54/town
Wow 40 posts in and looks like one scum reared his ugly head. I agree with ZDS. Vote Anak
I'm pretty sure that I'm a Miller. My role PM has some flavor clues that made me feel like this might be the case, and when I asked DYH, he said that he can't confirm or deny whether or not it's true.
So what are you getting at Tar? You can't use this type of meta on me. It doesn't work. Ask Zindabad, ask Zionite. Didn't work for them. Also why Cyan didn't push that placeholder post.
This is a great example of an opportunistic scum. Taredas throws a couple of scum games of mine out here and says 'look he's scum, this is what he does'. He neglects to show town games because they do not help out his case, they counter it.
@AE, why did you feel the need to answer Iso AFTER Generic had already answered him? I think Generic's post made it clear his reasoning seven hours before your post. it is still early enough in the day where a Barn would be passable, and you could have easily addressed Eshnolat's defense of antny/defense of their vote on generic. (Aside @Eshnolat: Prefer he/she/it/they?)
I wasn't just going to barn Generic because it simply wasn't a barn, I saw Antny scum for a different post. The connection to Generics that I saw was Antny=self-aware.
Sorry about my absence, I had a case of sinusitis that evolved from mild to severe in a flash over last week. I'll try to get a grip on the game over the weekend.
So in essence... a barn. Maybe not for the exact same post as Generic was triggered by, but for sure your vote is for the same reason. I also don't completely buy this, as you basically hide your exact reasoning to the last line of your post. Why not state it earlier if there was actually a difference in how you got to the self aware reasoning? (Which there really wasn't, as Generic even mentioned the same post you say you are voting for.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sorry for the absence, the site loading of Chrome for some reason, so I now have to use Firefox to use the site, which is inconvenient to say the least. Will catch up when I dealt with more pressing concerns (like the August CCL )
So in essence... a barn. Maybe not for the exact same post as Generic was triggered by, but for sure your vote is for the same reason.
I put a placeholder post to reflect back on that there is a scum in here, as I said being in the group of posters at the time. So fine you want to call that a barn call it a barn, have at it.
I also don't completely buy this, as you basically hide your exact reasoning to the last line of your post.
Hide? Do I say it or not?
Why not state it earlier if there was actually a difference in how you got to the self aware reasoning?
To get more out of Antny. To see if the behavior continues or if he starts showing town behavior. He continued to show that self aware attitude when pressed on other comments.
@AE, why did you feel the need to answer Iso AFTER Generic had already answered him?
Here lets put it this way. I didn't feel the need to answer after Generic did. I was not around since my last post. It was to show that I was not blindly barning Generic, that I did see something earlier. To show that there's a pattern forming.
Vote Generic, for being so super aggressive. Seems a bit suspicious.
Tell me, Eshhy, how do you expect members of the town should play in this game? Does it seem conducive to you to not push for reactions and gain information that could be used to read other players? If not, how are Generic's actions that you've highlighted here scummy?
I have my over cautious eye on this, so if I've misinterpreted you I will be seeing beyond that as you get into your stride. But for now I find your attention drawn to my remark to be of note.
I don't see how it's jumpy to want to know what you're talking about, though.
I ignore the "Antny question" because I don't feel I have too much to add at the moment.
He has been accused, and provided a defense. Nothing conclusive or that appears as a super clear tell. His "bumbling" is potentially suspicious, but far from conclusive. Generic does seem a bit lynch-happy, but someone has to stir the pot I guess.
But that's kind of the point, isn't it? Until town starts dying, grasping at straws and over-analyzing hoping the spotlight chances on a witch and they actually do provide a decisive tell is the most we can do.
And I don't know that I would call Antny excessively defensive. He kept being questioned and kept answering. I imagine most people would defend themselves from being lynched. "Dawww you got me! Okay, ready to be lynched :)"
Though I bet most of you know everyone else in these threads better than I do.
In your eyes, where did Antny bumble? Also...since you just gave your reason for voting Generic and then said "well maybe that's what he should be doing I guess", why haven't you unvoted him yet?
Iso, is this person your friend? If so can I get a little background on how experienced they are at mafia and how much common sense you would say they had in general life please.
Yep! Eshhy's never played Mafia before, though, and I'd wager she's relatively intelligent. Which is why I'm grilling her on what seems like a contradiction in mindset!
I mean, it's not like we have a say in the matter. But if we're taking a vote on it, I say no.
1) What do you mean "it's not like we have a say in the matter"? We (the players of the game) absolutely have a say in the matter.
2) Why not?
1. No, we don't have a say in how players use their ability. We can pretend we do, and try to lynch them on threat of not doing what we want, but y'know.
2. Because we can just lynch who we think is scum. What a dumb question.
I think the idea is stupid. Because one person is not as strong in the analysis as several. Regardless of scum opinions trying to sway thought processes, the arguments and debates are what draw not only slips but links between people.
So I would go as far as to say the idea is anti town. Place responsibility on the shoulders of one person who will carry a single mindset and biases and carry the blame for errors while the day phases descend into a mind mass exercise.
Also this.
Quote from Generic »
If you were scum, who would you look at in the player list and earmark for the mislynch first? Just based on seeing the name, no posts having been made.
You, because it's really easy to get you to implode emotionally, Arch, because people always tend to scumread him, and Tan or AE, because there's usually some point in every game where people want to lynch them.
FoS: KoolKoal for trying to be cute while sidestepping my proposal.
FoS: Antny for posts 8, 11, and 12.
<snipped for brevity>
I send glares of annoyance in the direction of everyone who ignored my proposal. I want everyone to weigh in on the idea of--barring obv scumslips--discussing until the deadline expires and then letting the Judge decide the lynch (with "no lynch" not being an option). If you don't think it's a good idea, you need to say why not.
Unvote
There's at least two good reasons not to like this plan.
- Scum Judge, as noted, can just go against consensus and kill a strong townie.
- A Town Judge, unless using the judge on a preselected (read: pseudolynched) target, is giving a hint to their identity, making it easier for scum to identify who has which roles (and to kill the Judge if needed - a town Judge is better lategame as extra lives proliferate and can single-handedly win tied endgames.
Frankly, I'm wondering why you floated this at all. Why do you think this is a *good* idea? Because I'm not seeing it. (And while you're here, why just FoSes on KoolKoal/Antny? Doesn't make sense as a pseudovote, because those tend to be announced and you dropped *two* FoS'es.)
The plan we *should* be talking about is a D1 Gravedigger claim (if the Gravedigger does *not* claim now and then claims later then, we lynch them on sight), followed by the Gravedigger revealing results each morning (background research suggests this is current stock play, though this game has a couple of differences from the standard that may affect this). Upshot is that it shuts down two situations: scum Gravedigger claiming a bunch of falsified results late to reinforce town fallacies/create falseclaiming holes (they can still lie, but have less time and information with which to do so and are more likely to make a mistake), or a scum Apprentice choosing Gravedigger, killing the GD N1, and proceeding to do the same. Downside is that the scum could kill the GD N1 - but if they're killing the GD, they aren't killing analysts/Village Clergy, and if they have the Apprentice set to Gravedigger (and why would a scum Apprentice pick Judge, outside of maybe the "GD *and* Apprentice are both scum" corner case?) they know who the GD is regardless.
The main differences that might affect this are the lack of pregame discussion (some WitchHunts allow a short period for discussion pregame, and Gravedigger claims happen then to let the Apprentice have a more informed choice - this mostly affects the chance of a scum GD not claiming, and is the reason for the "lynch them on sight if they do not claim" clause) and slightly different Angel/Demon effects (I *think* this doesn't affect the decision, but haven't run through scenarios yet).
If you were scum, who would you look at in the player list and earmark for the mislynch first? Just based on seeing the name, no posts having been made.
You if Iso was scum, iRebel if Iso was town. (As scum, if I'm pushing town I prefer to push players I have trouble reading as town - look at how I treated DGB/Thor/Nacho in CT3 for a good example. Iso reads your implosions well, hence the dependence on his alignment.)
It's actually to do with his three posts as a transition.
There is no comment on the concept of a judge ruling on the day, it's a straight into 'do we even know if the judge is in this?'. When informed of the fact all roles are in play, we get the explainy 'let me just consult the rules' post in 11, rather than just going an looking like most people would. It's clear intent to inform us all that when he makes a statement it's because it's in the rules and not inside knowledge.
And then in 12 he highlights the judge could be a witch. Had he come in with the comment the judge could be a witch it would have felt more natural to me. But the need to tell us he's checking the rules, pointing out it's covered in the rules... It's far too self aware. And I'm also now concerned the judge could be in the witch team.
Vote Generic, for being so super aggressive. Seems a bit suspicious.
I don't see it that way at all. To sum it all up, it boils down to antny being to self aware.
As I said in post 15. There is a witch in here.(Meaning among the posters at the time)
In antnys RVS vote he has to state that he is RVn'. Sent up flags
Vote antny
And this is how scum-AE attacks townies - tone lacks sincerity.
#6, Cantrip: No. There’s no way for us to judge the actions of the Judge as either “town” or “anti-town”, for the correct decision for the judge, regardless of alignment, is to lynch the scummiest person of the day, IMO.
#20, Generic: You’re doing that scummy thing again.
#33, Kamikaze: Speaking of terrible votes, yours is a prime example. There was nothing wrong with Eshnolat’s vote on Generic.
Why do you think Antny is being “excessively” defensive? Elaborate.
#39, Kamikaze: Explain why you’re suspicious of Eshnolat and Antny.
#45, Generic: Eshnolat.
#48, KoolKoal: /barn re: judge proposal.
#52, Taredas: I’d also like a link, if possible, to where you’re reading your theory arguments.
Am willing to support the AE wagon depending on how AE responds.
#54, Tanarin: “If I can see the logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea” —> This wording irks me, and doesn’t strike me as very town like. I feel like the town response would be along the lines of I’d like to see the whole discussion so we can examine it more thoroughly, but that isn’t what Tanarin said. He might be willing to support it after seeing it, with no qualification as to what would make him get on board. It’s sly sounding.
#55, KoolKoal: Why Taredas? What, specifically, about his question to AE pings your scumdar?
Oh, Tan's question isn't where my scum read of him comes from, except that he goes from the question to /barning a weak case and a vote on a dime. He even called the case "way better" than the case his question was going to spawn.
My remark about Tanarin's question was that I'm waiting to see what he's getting at in case he's wrong and it's better than Taredas's case, but right now it looks like he asked a weak question to probe, and got excited when Taredas dropped a vote for the same player he (Tan) was setting up on.
I forget why I quoted this (I'm distracted by Beavis & Butthead) but I think I didn't like it for some reason.
Votecount is wrong Prophy, apparently there are two AEs in this game?
unvote again.
Basically half of the player base is lurking already. We have strict deadlines this game people. Make posting more of a priority; don't let the witches get away with lurking.
Why is it necessarily the witches who are lurking?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Your vote is misguided I feel. But we can discuss that after you have answered kami.
Why is my answer to Kami relevant to why you think I'm wrong on Tare?
-
Also, I just realized I mixed up my response to iRebel by putting it after KoolKoal's post, and that I meant to say that I'd like to know where KK's vote is, in that case.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso: I think I've played with him once a few years ago.
Generic: At first I thought Fanatic seemed like a decent one to claim early. The Priest then checks the Fanatic. A cleared townie with two lives seems strong - and if a scum Fanatic tries to pull the same claim, giving them an extra life seems like a reasonable cost for confirming scum. Then I realized if the day 1 lynch is scum, the resulting Demon could use Shenanigans on the claimed Fanatic. None of the other roles seem particularly good to claim; DOB, BOD, Gambler and Survivor lose much of their power if scum can avoid killing them. Priest, Acolyte, Gravedigger and Inquisitor obviously want to remain hidden until they have some data. I am not sure I agree with the Gravedigger early-claim theory crafting from earlier; it just seems better to wait until you have info. Judge probably gets killed if they claim, and gains nothing from being in the open, unless there's a specific situation where they think their extra-kill-bypassing power is needed. Apprentice has the same properties as whichever variant they chose. Loose Cannon claiming doesn't really do anything either way.
In summary, no, I can't see a general advantage to early claims for any role, outside of very specific situations.
@AE: Yes you did say it, but what I meant by hiding it is the fact it was the last sentence. That also relates to the part where I ask you why not mention it earlier. I was not poking at what post you asked as much as WHERE in the wall post you made you put it. It felt like you were hiding the exact post that got you going on Ant, as I actually missed it the first time I read through the post. I guess there is a chance that you just went all train of thought on us, but the location of that last line makes it feel like you tacked it on as an afterthought.
@Generic: I see no roles that should be claimed early. If Shenanigans was D2 as opposed to D1, then I can see a good case for letting the GD claim (Plenty of posts in Tare's linked threads that support this move.) As of now though... I see none.
Iso: I think the assumption that witches would like to lurk out the game if town gives them the opportunity is a safe one, especially considering the strict deadlines. I think it's more important than usual to light a fire under all lurkers' butts this game.
Private Mod Note
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Here's the latest question to answer for me please.
Which roles in your opinion are better claimed?
I believe this question is a bad idea, and am not going to answer it. In fact, I would like to know exactly why you asked it - it feels fishy, and I don't see how it helps find scum.
@AE, why did you feel the need to answer Iso AFTER Generic had already answered him? I think Generic's post made it clear his reasoning seven hours before your post. it is still early enough in the day where a Barn would be passable, and you could have easily addressed Eshnolat's defense of antny/defense of their vote on generic. (Aside @Eshnolat: Prefer he/she/it/they?)
I wasn't just going to barn Generic because it simply wasn't a barn, I saw Antny scum for a different post. The connection to Generics that I saw was Antny=self-aware.
So in essence... a barn. Maybe not for the exact same post as Generic was triggered by, but for sure your vote is for the same reason.
I put a placeholder post to reflect back on that there is a scum in here, as I said being in the group of posters at the time. So fine you want to call that a barn call it a barn, have at it.
And speaking of WWE, AE's insistence that he wasn't barning Generic reminds me of how he reacted to me calling him on misrepresenting Kosa in that game.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And because I *swear* I remember AE talking about this once somewhere (completed game? Theory thread? Can't remember.)
And to see how you would respond.
Speaking of that: Why no comment on the other part of my response? You know, the smilie? I'd expect a town!Iso to notice that and follow up (or at least note that you would follow up later)... but you *didn't*, and I'd like to know why.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Your vote is misguided I feel. But we can discuss that after you have answered kami.
Why is my answer to Kami relevant to why you think I'm wrong on Tare?
No relevance at all. I just don't want to have handed you an opportunity to avoid answering a question by having 'drawn your attention'.
And glad you don't seem to be too much in disagreement with me, you didn't even question why I called it misguided.
Well obviously I don't think my vote is misguided.
Quote from Generic »
But as the only person to name me in my initial question to everyone Iso I think you might be town.
Well, the "correct" answer obviously involves the circumstances of the game being involved to determine what you're asking about, but as I said, you're prone to fly off the hinge, so I would likely gun for you early if I could as scum since you have a propensity for catching me early on and I know how to push your buttons pretty well.
Quote from Generic »
Please don't let me down when we perform the dunk test on you...
But if I don't float, I'll drown!
Quote from Generic »
I placed no pressure on anyone to answer
Well now I'm curious - why did you want to try people by fire if they didn't answer your first question, and why the tonal shift in how you asked the next one?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In what way does it taint the answers? Because to me, it seems like it was either a loaded question, or like your approach was very cautious. Since when do you tip-toe around things?
That said, snap read so far is town, but I'd still like to figure out why there seems to be this dissonance in your thought process.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
D1 GD claim sounds like it might be a good move. Even if we are unable to verify if the GD is Town or Scum, it would still show us the GD and make it a trickier for a Scum GD to lie later in to the game. Even if the GD is killed next night, we'll have done something.
Theoretically, we wouldn't really be able to verify anything with the threat of shenanigans about. Unless we somehow lynched someone we were all pretty certain was Town. Which is a high price to pay for the modicum of certainty it would grant us.
I think some of variation of D1 GD is at least worth discussing further, since it looks like we're headed in the direction of a no-lynch (scum gets a free kill) or mislynch right now.
RULES QUESTION:
Although I do not understand how we are interpreting true claim and falseclaim of roles in this or any case. I thought it stated in the rules that a player could quote the PM from our Mod to show their role. In that case, how can a false role get away with their falseclaim?
I've already PM'd Prophy on this but if someone else would care to respond first that would be lovely.
PS: I realize that this PM quoting only refers to the role and not the allignment.
Quote from Cantripmancer » »
Something substantive from Eshnolat would be nice, too.
Generally speaking I'll probably post something more substantive when I have something more substantive, but for the moment I really don't. Until more substantive evidence or tells show up, it may be best I leave the mind games to all the people who know each other much better than I do while watching for something everyone else may miss.
Unless you meant something substantive from me relative to something specific?
Quote from Generic » »
Who has t answered my question yet? There's a couple of people who have given me town vibes simply by extension of how they answered it, so kudos to them and you will get the recognition as and when I start presenting cases.
Irebel... I love how you attack me over something i posted without particularly thinking (timing, level of attack, the breaking of RVS, so many things I could have come under attack for) yet the throwaway line where I reference my favourite subject (me) you read as a town tell?
One was self aware, why is it that one that pulled your vote?
I'm gonna make you my project toDay I think. I need a project and cantrip is playing his lurking game again. Tanarin and taredas wall post more than me, antny and AE look like they are witches at this stage, eshnolat is woolly, Iso is Iso, and koolkoal I'm not sure has got his head around me as a player yet, so you can be my punching bag
Who out of taredas and tanarin stood out as the more suspicious based on the AE voting?
Cos without being too egotistical I think I've solved the game... But I don't want to spoil the surprise for the rest of you so early
For all this talk about some posters being too self-aware, your latest posts sound very self-aware. It's been said that any suspicious behavior from you is just you being you, but you still seem pretty fishy to me.
Iso 84: My intention was not to provide a strong argument for lynching Generic, but to provoke both Generic and discussion in general. Perhaps that sets him up for more of a mislynch rather than a deserved lynch, according to some others and you, but I would prefer to try and find out rather than take someone's word for it.
Tare 93: I'm pretty eager to hear why you think Generic's question is fishy too. It's an open question to all about how Town should proceed.
Quote from Generic » »
Eshnolat is a lady?
Damn you Iso. Now I'm more likely to give her an easier time of things... Normally someone who challenges me early can incur my walls of rantage, but now I have to play this game properly
No going easy for something like that, you ScummyMcScummerson!
If self-awareness is a barometer for scumminess, then this game of cat and also cat that Iso and Generic are playing is suspicious.
Innocent banter, or Iso x Generic providing an excellent cover for team scum? I would suspect as such from two people as seemingly clever as yourselves.
I'll unvote Generic and vote someone else as soon as someone else gives me more fishy vibes than Generic, but they haven't yet.
How does Generic play when they're Scum, and how does Generic play when they're Town?
Because he's scum! Scum AE tends to be more active early game than town AE, since he has the certainty of knowing the setup.
I was going to have you do your homework and prove this statement by showing town games that back this up, but I don't want to hold the town hostage waiting for you to do nothing.
Marvel Madness contradicts this. As does Star Wars.
So with that note unvote vote Taredas
So not town behavior. Spitting out only what suits his needs.
Of course I noticed. I'm keeping my cards to my chest for a bit longer. Baiting me isn't going to get me to bite sooner.
Since you're playing close to the chest, I think I'm going to play mostly open - because if you're town, that should help you understand the situation faster and if you're scum, that should let me know about that faster.
See, there are two people in this game that I am reasonably confident that I am able to read - confident enough that if I had a read contradicted by a Priest check, my first thought would be "Shenanigans". You are one of them, for reasons I will explain - or possibly remind you of, since I think I discussed this late in CT2 - after you've stopped playingclose to the chest. (AE is the other - he's more focused and more confident early as scum, and tends to reach out to other players more in the early game as town - which should tell you something.)*
But... so far this game, I *don't* have a good read on you yet. You've posted a bunch of short comments, but haven't gone fully into the attack yet. I'm leaning town at the moment, but that's almost entirely based on this post and your tone in 98, neither of which had been posted at the time - I could see post 84 come from any of three mindsets (which I will explain after you have revealed, though you should be able to get the general outlines of each), and wanted a better read on *which*.
If mindset 1 applies, then you're town and saying more at this time is counterproductive. (This mindset is the most likely one to respond to my with "I am leaving a note of this for later", which of course is why I left said smilie in the first place. I think it also fits slightly better with your response *here*, which is part of the reason I'm playing open.)
If mindset 2 applies, then you're misguided town and need to realize this ASAP (there's more to say here, but I think I should wait until you've revealed so that you can't play around it).
If mindset 3 applies, then you are scum and you are going to hang toDay.
The fastest and surest way to differentiate between mindsets 2 and 3 is to successfully bait you, and one potential response to that baiting would suggest mindset 1, so I probed. (Ideally I'd pull the same thing on you that I did on Cyan in A3, but if mindset 1 is in play that's going to give bad results, so no.)
* - Corollary: I *hate* attacking townies I read easily as scum, since it's even harder for me to fake my tone when doing so - I tend to steer clear of them, as I did to you in both Drury and CT3.
But as the only person to name me in my initial question to everyone Iso I think you might be town. Please don't let me down when we perform the dunk test on you...
You if Iso was scum, iRebel if Iso was town. (As scum, if I'm pushing town I prefer to push players I have trouble reading as town - look at how I treated DGB/Thor/Nacho in CT3 for a good example. Iso reads your implosions well, hence the dependence on his alignment.)
Do tell why you only mentioned Iso when *two* people mentioned you on the mislynch list? (Though at this point I think Rebel moves off in favor of... uh, Antny? I may have found something on iRebel and if so I can read him - you'll understand if I don't say more until Rebel gives us a couple more posts.)
Taredas, I am intrigued that you would soft suspect me over a question that people are entitled to ignore. I placed no pressure on anyone to answer, I didn't request claims off people. But what I am doing to watching how people react to the questions.
But if you think I have sinister motives please feel free to explain them and vote for me. I'm not about to stop what I'm going just cos you don't like it.
A) "No pressure to answer"? Horse puckey. You threatened to attack people for not answering your first question, and then *didn't* say that you didn't care whether or not people answered your question the second time - the threat may not be explicit, but it's there.
B) "But what I am doing to watching how people react to the questions." Well, yes, and that's the ****ing POINT - because the only reason I can think of to look for those reactions is if you are rolefishing scum, *especially* in this setup. But there was a chance that you were town who *thought* you had a good reason - so I asked, so that if that was the case then you would explain your reasoning and realize that you were wrong and your question is anti-town and stop helping scum.
So retract your question and answer mine, or else. (I'd say "or you *will* be lynched toDay", but if Iso's scum he goes first.)
* - Corollary: I *hate* attacking townies I read easily as scum, since it's even harder for me to fake my tone when doing so - I tend to steer clear of them, as I did to you in both Drury and CT3.
Are you saying you'd be hiding from Iso and AE if you were scum?
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Weakly justified vote, ignores the actual Antny question.
Aren't all votes early on weakly justified. And isn't this the reaction you'd expect off any player who doesn't know Generic anyway.
Speaking of which, Antny is being excessively defensive.
Excessively??? I don't think I've been defensive (at least by my standards) but even if you do I don't see how you can spin a couple of posts on the first page as excessive.
I think you missed the point. You have just voted for me and then provided a defense for the exact thing you are voting for me for.
Either you are telling me you are scum or you are being blindly hypocritical.
Another stretch, your trying to hard here to equate what Esch did to what you did, and I can't see how they are.
Iso, is this person your friend? If so can I get a little background on how experienced they are at mafia and how much common sense you would say they had in general life please.
And gees Generic did they not teach manners where your from? Why not just ask Eshnolat straight up for his experience? And the common sense question feels like an unnecessary dig.
I'm sorry no comment on the judge ruling on the day. I'm like the only person to comment on it.
Yet you still haven't espoused whether you think it's a good idea or not.
It's not a good idea. Sorry for not making that clearer but if the judge is not confirmed town then we are simply no lynching to provide a free mislynch to scum. And with no flips then we end up with no real information except for the fact that the judge and victim were not scum together. Hardly that useful in the scheme of things.
When you asked the question did you think there were advantages to let the judge decide or were looking to create discussion?
I send glares of annoyance in the direction of everyone who ignored my proposal. I want everyone to weigh in on the idea of--barring obv scumslips--discussing until the deadline expires and then letting the Judge decide the lynch (with "no lynch" not being an option). If you don't think it's a good idea, you need to say why not.
I'm trying to understand "pros" for the town here. The judge could be a witch correct? The town would not know who the judge is so... Well if the judge is scum then we could control how he handles his role. But first we'd have to find out who it is. If the judge is town is it crucial for the scum to find out who he is? I don't think so.
Cantrip, why do you want the judge to decide? Whats the benefit?
So hang on, you didn't like my reactions to the judge question but your opinions are much the mirror of mine.
If you were scum, who would you look at in the player list and earmark for the mislynch first? Just based on seeing the name, no posts having been made.
Probably Kami or Iso, assuming I wasn't scum with either of them.
I was gonna wait until after AE answered my question, but seeing as how Tare just made my case way better than I was going to via my question:
Vote Archmage Eternal
I would still like an answer to my question BTW, kthxbai.
Also, mind linking to said discussion in thread, Tare (Assuming no ongoing game stuff is mentioned of course.) Consider me intrigued on the Gravedigger D1 claim logic. If I can see said logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea.
Dislike this post so much. There seems no reason for town to suddenly to throw their vote on after Tare's like this, and everything around the vote is basically just awkward buddying.
I think I was a bit tired when I made that post. My thought process at the time was: AE is good mislynch target imo + Taredas makes bad case on AE = scum. I won't go into more detail until AE defends himself, but tone down my previous statement down to IGMEOY, as it relates to Taredas, at least.
Looks like KK is scum who already knows AE is town. I even think it's viable he could be scum with either Tan or Tare but I'd be getting ahead of myself.
OK, I like Tan's 63. Makes up a little for the previously quoted post.
I'm about, I just am waiting on antny to respond at present.
Yeah blame me for your lack of playing this game.
I am interested in the responses from Tan and Tar to your posts, but I think antny needs more pressure. If you remember archer mafia when put under pressure he pulled a disappearing act. So I think I'm on the right track here.
I didn't pull a disappearing act, I had real life trouble, and since you've played enough games with me as scum before you know full well that lurkiness is not something I do as a strategy. I apologize for my absense but I have life outside this forums and I won't have it held against me. Nor should it be used to excuse anyone else from playing the game.
You see this is what you should be doing instead of sitting on your hands waiting for everyone else.
I would avoid too many claims, but I think the fanatic should claim today. The priest can check them tonight and if a witch, we can lynch tomorrow, otherwise if the priest does not respond then we have a conftown with an extra life without outing any other power roles.
Iso, is your vote on Taredes based on experience playing with him or is there something I've missed?
Iso: I think the assumption that witches would like to lurk out the game if town gives them the opportunity is a safe one, especially considering the strict deadlines. I think it's more important than usual to light a fire under all lurkers' butts this game.
They why aren't you doing this?
In fact let's just
vote KoolKoal
here. I'm also leaning scum on Generic but I'm not too sure on anyone else right now beyond the odd weak townread.
Antny. You haven't pointed to why I'm scum. That's pointless if you intend to mislynch me eventually.
Let me assure you Generic, I have no intention of mislynching this game.
And I asked Iso because I wanted to focus on him as much as eshnolat. Was the question rude? Like I care about manners in these things. As long as I'm not flaming I haven't breached any rules with such a question. And I should know what constitutes a warning, I have a collection of them in my inbox
How does the question help you with regards to Iso. Does scum!Iso turn around and say "oh she has no common sense" when town!Iso turns around and says... I don't know something else. I mean the whole thing looked so OOG I don't really see where the need to involve Iso came in at all. The reason I pointed it out was that it came across to me as someone trying to empathize the lack of knowledge on another player - possibly because their scumbuddies. I'm not entirely sure in your case but the comment and your response have piqued my suspicions.
But your catch up post is what I wanted from you. I don't particularly care if you are scum reading me, OMGUS was always likely, but what I was concerned by is how much you hesitated before bringing the OMGUS. I attacked you page 1, broke RVS and placed all the focus on you. A natural response would be to be butthurt. You tried to sarcastically style it out.
I don't really think you broke rvs as much as Cantrip did with his question. I'll ignore the OMGUS shot and simply ask what you meant by "sarcastically style it out"?
Now though after I've dropped loaded questions on the game you are on the generic bandwagon. There's enough for at least three to four votes on me so it amuses me only the new girl pulled the trigger.But it's academic. You won't get me lynched toDay. Night killed, that's a possibility. But no chance of the lynch.
Well, not unless I try to lynch you. But right now I bigger fish and only one vote.
Antny. You haven't pointed to why I'm scum. That's pointless if you intend to mislynch me eventually.
Let me assure you Generic, I have no intention of mislynching this game.
If your scum, the case will build itself (if you search my posts really hard you may find some points I have already accrued). If not, hopefully I will work it out before too long. But right now, your in the scum camp.
And your sarcasm towards grammar errors in my posts in order to be flippant or belittle the point within it is what I meant. As you seem keen to point out we have played together before. And my speed typing on a phone regularly yields grammatical faux pas.
Utter crap. I have attacked over the content of your posts and lets not pretend otherwise.
And I don't know if I've ever played a game that you were town in... One scum game you played well, the other you buckled under pressure.
Then you'll have to hunt out my town meta if your gonna make meta arguments. And if not then what's the point of this?
But if you have come in to try and 'out arogant' me you seem to be under some delusion that I care enough to stop.
'out arogant' you? I don't have the foggiest what your trying to get at it. You can be arrogant as you like.
I believe AE is scum at this point. The wagon hopping doesn't sit right with me.
Do explain what doesn't sit right with you. Is it the fact that Taredas continuously claims this is my scum meta? Or that I counter his claims to prove he's wrong? Or that he ignores my posts and goes on like my counter posts don't exist? Or that there is more than one scum in this game so I'm perfectly fine with pursuing who I believe to be another scum based on the fabrication he's spewing.
Seriously Generic. Are you following what is going on here and the posts Taredas is trying to put fourth as fact?
So your completely dropping the antny suspicion was purely because of the OMGUS? Or did you find his absense a town tell?
I'm not dropping antny. I said there is more than one scum. I'm fine with either one being lynched. No I did not find his absence a town tell, just the opposite.
I wasn't going to switch my vote because it seemed like that was what antny was hoping for, law low while the attention shifts somewhere else. But with the nonsense Taredas was posting I got fed up with it.
I really don't think Taredas and Tanarin are scum together. That vote that Tan laid down was horrible especially when it had nothing to do with his question to me.
@Tarn, What do you think of Tare now that I show his meta case holds no water? Also what do you think of your vote now that you know it was placed under false pretenses?
I'm confident in my ability to read players like antny. The points against him in the beginning of the Day were about him "faking" his rules ignorance and being self-conscious (which is a greatly over-valued buzz word around here). Two things I don't put much stock in at all, as their all about how you've chosen to perceive his posts. Yet he gets pressured by multiple people -> leaning town.
Like I said, I think I can read players like antny very well. He seems to be the type that is unaware of how his actions will appear to the rest of the players, and therefore gets labelled as scummy quickly. The key to reading players like that is looking at the way they case people. Antny's case on me is thin, but he voted me anyway. Despite being under pressure, he put no careful thought into his next move, he just jumped. -> town
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Tanarin, #60: You’re right, I do know how you play. That’s exactly why I don’t like the way you said what you said.
Generic, #68: I was attacking you to gauge your reaction; your post felt similar to how you went after Zinger in Marvel 1, where you were scum. I would have expected scum!Generic to not relent like you did.
To answer your question, Tanarin because he jumped on it right out of the blue without bothering to hear any kind of response from AE.
#70, Kamikaze: I disagree that Antny was being “excessively” defensive. I don’t believe there’s a very strong way of responding to a self-aware charge that doesn’t read as defensive or, funny enough, self aware.
There is also no similarities between what I said and what Tanarin said.
Won’t be touching the AE Wagon at this point (as of AE’s reply to Tare)
Generic, #83: None.
I can’t make heads or tails of AE v. Tare — I could see arguments for it being town v. town or town v. scum. AE’s rebuttals of Tare’s case seem decent enough, but I’m not a fan of how it’s solely the basis of AE voting for him and trying to shepherd votes onto him. I’m not a fan of how Tare really isn’t replying to AE but continuing to push the case anyway. It’s just odd behaviour all around to me.
#116, Antny: Why does that post from Generic scream scum?
#117, KoolKoal: Jumpy much?
#129, KoolKoal: Why are you confident you can read Antny?
As a general note to everyone: I have some RL drama currently going on, so for the next few days, I will only be posting once, maybe twice a day at most as my computer time will be limited.
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EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I'm confident in my ability to read players like antny. The points against him in the beginning of the Day were about him "faking" his rules ignorance and being self-conscious (which is a greatly over-valued buzz word around here). Two things I don't put much stock in at all, as their all about how you've chosen to perceive his posts. Yet he gets pressured by multiple people -> leaning town.
Like I said, I think I can read players like antny very well. He seems to be the type that is unaware of how his actions will appear to the rest of the players, and therefore gets labelled as scummy quickly. The key to reading players like that is looking at the way they case people. Antny's case on me is thin, but he voted me anyway. Despite being under pressure, he put no careful thought into his next move, he just jumped. -> town
As for tare, He obviously thought he had a meta read on you. But like most meta reads on players who have played a while, one can find a handful of games representing any viewpoint they want to represent. Being so early in the game, there isn't much to go on, so jumping on a person for a weak meta read is not gonna necessarily skew my view one way or the other.
As for my vote. It was not for the meta read at all. It was for the lack of sincerity I detected in your posts. To represent my vote any other way, especially given my followups is misrepping my case.
I was borrowing one of Voxx's old tricks. Here's an example with outcome (from WWE):
Basically, it's a way to check for scum being excessively self-conscious early. Pointed it your way due to a couple of early posts:
They felt self-conscious, so I tested. (Your response here *doesn't* feel self-conscious, so there's that.)
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
(7 to lynch)
Antny223 (2): Generic, Archmage Eternal
Archmage Eternal (2): Taredas, Tanarin
Cantripmancer (1): Antny223
Tanarin (1): iRebel
Iso (1): Kosakosa
Generic (1): Eshnolat
Eshnolat (1): KamikazeArchon
Abstain (3): Iso, Cantripmancer, KoolKoal
unvote again.
Basically half of the player base is lurking already. We have strict deadlines this game people. Make posting more of a priority; don't let the witches get away with lurking.
As for Antny:
This is excessively defensive. He's trying to placate Generic. He's not trying to find scum. Speaking of scum: You just accused Tanarin for doing the exact same thing you just did in the previous sentence.
unvote
vote iRebel
-Ogre Mafia-Town
Amistarian/town
So what are you getting at Tar? You can't use this type of meta on me. It doesn't work. Ask Zindabad, ask Zionite. Didn't work for them. Also why Cyan didn't push that placeholder post.
This is a great example of an opportunistic scum. Taredas throws a couple of scum games of mine out here and says 'look he's scum, this is what he does'. He neglects to show town games because they do not help out his case, they counter it.
I'll get to Tanarin but this just irk'd me.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I wasn't just going to barn Generic because it simply wasn't a barn, I saw Antny scum for a different post. The connection to Generics that I saw was Antny=self-aware.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I put a placeholder post to reflect back on that there is a scum in here, as I said being in the group of posters at the time. So fine you want to call that a barn call it a barn, have at it.
Hide? Do I say it or not?
To get more out of Antny. To see if the behavior continues or if he starts showing town behavior. He continued to show that self aware attitude when pressed on other comments.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Here lets put it this way. I didn't feel the need to answer after Generic did. I was not around since my last post. It was to show that I was not blindly barning Generic, that I did see something earlier. To show that there's a pattern forming.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Don't really want to go into things until I hear more from Iso and Antny. Something substantive from Eshnolat would be nice, too.
Tell me, Eshhy, how do you expect members of the town should play in this game? Does it seem conducive to you to not push for reactions and gain information that could be used to read other players? If not, how are Generic's actions that you've highlighted here scummy?
I don't see how it's jumpy to want to know what you're talking about, though.
Given that Eshnolat is a first-time player, do you think the "weak vote" rationale holds water?
In your eyes, where did Antny bumble? Also...since you just gave your reason for voting Generic and then said "well maybe that's what he should be doing I guess", why haven't you unvoted him yet?
Yep! Eshhy's never played Mafia before, though, and I'd wager she's relatively intelligent. Which is why I'm grilling her on what seems like a contradiction in mindset!
1. No, we don't have a say in how players use their ability. We can pretend we do, and try to lynch them on threat of not doing what we want, but y'know.
2. Because we can just lynch who we think is scum. What a dumb question.
Also this.
You, because it's really easy to get you to implode emotionally, Arch, because people always tend to scumread him, and Tan or AE, because there's usually some point in every game where people want to lynch them.
Vote Tare
I forget why I quoted this (I'm distracted by Beavis & Butthead) but I think I didn't like it for some reason.
I anticipate it.
Why is it necessarily the witches who are lurking?
You're unusually verbose. Why is that?
None? I don't see why we should throw our roles out there until necessary.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I would like an explanation of your vote.
(7 to lynch)
Antny223 (2): Generic, Archmage Eternal
Archmage Eternal (2): Taredas, Tanarin
Cantripmancer (1): Antny223
Tanarin (1): iRebel
Iso (1): Kosakosa
Generic (1): Eshnolat
iRebel (1): KamikazeArchon
Taredas (1): Iso
Abstain (2): Cantripmancer, KoolKoal
The 1.3 votecount has been fixed.
Eshnolat, iRebel, and Taredas have been prodded.
A reminder that the BoD, DoB, and Judge actions must be queued in advance.
I'll bet you would.
What's your experience with Taredas?
Why is my answer to Kami relevant to why you think I'm wrong on Tare?
-
Also, I just realized I mixed up my response to iRebel by putting it after KoolKoal's post, and that I meant to say that I'd like to know where KK's vote is, in that case.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Generic: At first I thought Fanatic seemed like a decent one to claim early. The Priest then checks the Fanatic. A cleared townie with two lives seems strong - and if a scum Fanatic tries to pull the same claim, giving them an extra life seems like a reasonable cost for confirming scum. Then I realized if the day 1 lynch is scum, the resulting Demon could use Shenanigans on the claimed Fanatic. None of the other roles seem particularly good to claim; DOB, BOD, Gambler and Survivor lose much of their power if scum can avoid killing them. Priest, Acolyte, Gravedigger and Inquisitor obviously want to remain hidden until they have some data. I am not sure I agree with the Gravedigger early-claim theory crafting from earlier; it just seems better to wait until you have info. Judge probably gets killed if they claim, and gains nothing from being in the open, unless there's a specific situation where they think their extra-kill-bypassing power is needed. Apprentice has the same properties as whichever variant they chose. Loose Cannon claiming doesn't really do anything either way.
In summary, no, I can't see a general advantage to early claims for any role, outside of very specific situations.
@Generic: I see no roles that should be claimed early. If Shenanigans was D2 as opposed to D1, then I can see a good case for letting the GD claim (Plenty of posts in Tare's linked threads that support this move.) As of now though... I see none.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
---
I believe this question is a bad idea, and am not going to answer it. In fact, I would like to know exactly why you asked it - it feels fishy, and I don't see how it helps find scum.
---
You're unusually verbose. Why is that?[/quote]
Because he's scum! Scum AE tends to be more active early game than town AE, since he has the certainty of knowing the setup.
---
And speaking of WWE, AE's insistence that he wasn't barning Generic reminds me of how he reacted to me calling him on misrepresenting Kosa in that game.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because I was discussing meta anyways.
And because I *swear* I remember AE talking about this once somewhere (completed game? Theory thread? Can't remember.)
And to see how you would respond.
Speaking of that: Why no comment on the other part of my response? You know, the smilie? I'd expect a town!Iso to notice that and follow up (or at least note that you would follow up later)... but you *didn't*, and I'd like to know why.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well obviously I don't think my vote is misguided.
Well, the "correct" answer obviously involves the circumstances of the game being involved to determine what you're asking about, but as I said, you're prone to fly off the hinge, so I would likely gun for you early if I could as scum since you have a propensity for catching me early on and I know how to push your buttons pretty well.
But if I don't float, I'll drown!
Well now I'm curious - why did you want to try people by fire if they didn't answer your first question, and why the tonal shift in how you asked the next one?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That said, snap read so far is town, but I'd still like to figure out why there seems to be this dissonance in your thought process.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Theoretically, we wouldn't really be able to verify anything with the threat of shenanigans about. Unless we somehow lynched someone we were all pretty certain was Town. Which is a high price to pay for the modicum of certainty it would grant us.
I think some of variation of D1 GD is at least worth discussing further, since it looks like we're headed in the direction of a no-lynch (scum gets a free kill) or mislynch right now.
RULES QUESTION:
Although I do not understand how we are interpreting true claim and falseclaim of roles in this or any case. I thought it stated in the rules that a player could quote the PM from our Mod to show their role. In that case, how can a false role get away with their falseclaim?
I've already PM'd Prophy on this but if someone else would care to respond first that would be lovely.
PS: I realize that this PM quoting only refers to the role and not the allignment.
Generally speaking I'll probably post something more substantive when I have something more substantive, but for the moment I really don't. Until more substantive evidence or tells show up, it may be best I leave the mind games to all the people who know each other much better than I do while watching for something everyone else may miss.
Unless you meant something substantive from me relative to something specific?
For all this talk about some posters being too self-aware, your latest posts sound very self-aware. It's been said that any suspicious behavior from you is just you being you, but you still seem pretty fishy to me.
Iso 84: My intention was not to provide a strong argument for lynching Generic, but to provoke both Generic and discussion in general. Perhaps that sets him up for more of a mislynch rather than a deserved lynch, according to some others and you, but I would prefer to try and find out rather than take someone's word for it.
Tare 93: I'm pretty eager to hear why you think Generic's question is fishy too. It's an open question to all about how Town should proceed.
No going easy for something like that, you ScummyMcScummerson!
If self-awareness is a barometer for scumminess, then this game of cat and also cat that Iso and Generic are playing is suspicious.
Innocent banter, or Iso x Generic providing an excellent cover for team scum? I would suspect as such from two people as seemingly clever as yourselves.
I'll unvote Generic and vote someone else as soon as someone else gives me more fishy vibes than Generic, but they haven't yet.
How does Generic play when they're Scum, and how does Generic play when they're Town?
I was going to have you do your homework and prove this statement by showing town games that back this up, but I don't want to hold the town hostage waiting for you to do nothing.
Marvel Madness contradicts this. As does Star Wars.
So with that note
unvote vote Taredas
So not town behavior. Spitting out only what suits his needs.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Since you're playing close to the chest, I think I'm going to play mostly open - because if you're town, that should help you understand the situation faster and if you're scum, that should let me know about that faster.
See, there are two people in this game that I am reasonably confident that I am able to read - confident enough that if I had a read contradicted by a Priest check, my first thought would be "Shenanigans". You are one of them, for reasons I will explain - or possibly remind you of, since I think I discussed this late in CT2 - after you've stopped playingclose to the chest. (AE is the other - he's more focused and more confident early as scum, and tends to reach out to other players more in the early game as town - which should tell you something.)*
But... so far this game, I *don't* have a good read on you yet. You've posted a bunch of short comments, but haven't gone fully into the attack yet. I'm leaning town at the moment, but that's almost entirely based on this post and your tone in 98, neither of which had been posted at the time - I could see post 84 come from any of three mindsets (which I will explain after you have revealed, though you should be able to get the general outlines of each), and wanted a better read on *which*.
If mindset 1 applies, then you're town and saying more at this time is counterproductive. (This mindset is the most likely one to respond to my with "I am leaving a note of this for later", which of course is why I left said smilie in the first place. I think it also fits slightly better with your response *here*, which is part of the reason I'm playing open.)
If mindset 2 applies, then you're misguided town and need to realize this ASAP (there's more to say here, but I think I should wait until you've revealed so that you can't play around it).
If mindset 3 applies, then you are scum and you are going to hang toDay.
The fastest and surest way to differentiate between mindsets 2 and 3 is to successfully bait you, and one potential response to that baiting would suggest mindset 1, so I probed. (Ideally I'd pull the same thing on you that I did on Cyan in A3, but if mindset 1 is in play that's going to give bad results, so no.)
* - Corollary: I *hate* attacking townies I read easily as scum, since it's even harder for me to fake my tone when doing so - I tend to steer clear of them, as I did to you in both Drury and CT3.
---
Do tell why you only mentioned Iso when *two* people mentioned you on the mislynch list? (Though at this point I think Rebel moves off in favor of... uh, Antny? I may have found something on iRebel and if so I can read him - you'll understand if I don't say more until Rebel gives us a couple more posts.)
A) "No pressure to answer"? Horse puckey. You threatened to attack people for not answering your first question, and then *didn't* say that you didn't care whether or not people answered your question the second time - the threat may not be explicit, but it's there.
B) "But what I am doing to watching how people react to the questions." Well, yes, and that's the ****ing POINT - because the only reason I can think of to look for those reactions is if you are rolefishing scum, *especially* in this setup. But there was a chance that you were town who *thought* you had a good reason - so I asked, so that if that was the case then you would explain your reasoning and realize that you were wrong and your question is anti-town and stop helping scum.
So retract your question and answer mine, or else. (I'd say "or you *will* be lynched toDay", but if Iso's scum he goes first.)
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Taredas is clearly avoiding how I'm grinding his case against me to dust.
More votes please.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
(7 to lynch)
Taredas (2): Iso, Archmage Eternal
Archmage Eternal (2): Taredas, Tanarin
Cantripmancer (1): Antny223
Tanarin (1): iRebel
Iso (1): Kosakosa
Generic (1): Eshnolat
iRebel (1): KamikazeArchon
Antny223 (1): Generic
Abstain (2): Cantripmancer, KoolKoal
Antny223 and Kosakosa have been prodded. iRebel has 24 hours to post or be replaced.
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This sort of turn of phrase screams scum to me.
Aren't all votes early on weakly justified. And isn't this the reaction you'd expect off any player who doesn't know Generic anyway.
Excessively??? I don't think I've been defensive (at least by my standards) but even if you do I don't see how you can spin a couple of posts on the first page as excessive.
Another stretch, your trying to hard here to equate what Esch did to what you did, and I can't see how they are.
And gees Generic did they not teach manners where your from? Why not just ask Eshnolat straight up for his experience? And the common sense question feels like an unnecessary dig.
Depends how long the rules are. In games like this, I pretty just jump in and see how it goes.
It's not a good idea. Sorry for not making that clearer but if the judge is not confirmed town then we are simply no lynching to provide a free mislynch to scum. And with no flips then we end up with no real information except for the fact that the judge and victim were not scum together. Hardly that useful in the scheme of things.
When you asked the question did you think there were advantages to let the judge decide or were looking to create discussion?
So hang on, you didn't like my reactions to the judge question but your opinions are much the mirror of mine.
Probably Kami or Iso, assuming I wasn't scum with either of them.
@AE - Why'd you select Kosa here?
Dislike this post so much. There seems no reason for town to suddenly to throw their vote on after Tare's like this, and everything around the vote is basically just awkward buddying.
How did you get to the bolded?
I like iRebel's 58.
Looks like KK is scum who already knows AE is town. I even think it's viable he could be scum with either Tan or Tare but I'd be getting ahead of myself.
OK, I like Tan's 63. Makes up a little for the previously quoted post.
Oh bless, he's trying to look natural.
Thanks. I hate when scum just tell us who their buddies are Day 1, it spoils the game.
Yeah blame me for your lack of playing this game.
I didn't pull a disappearing act, I had real life trouble, and since you've played enough games with me as scum before you know full well that lurkiness is not something I do as a strategy. I apologize for my absense but I have life outside this forums and I won't have it held against me. Nor should it be used to excuse anyone else from playing the game.
You see this is what you should be doing instead of sitting on your hands waiting for everyone else.
I would avoid too many claims, but I think the fanatic should claim today. The priest can check them tonight and if a witch, we can lynch tomorrow, otherwise if the priest does not respond then we have a conftown with an extra life without outing any other power roles.
Iso, is your vote on Taredes based on experience playing with him or is there something I've missed?
They why aren't you doing this?
In fact let's just
vote KoolKoal
here. I'm also leaning scum on Generic but I'm not too sure on anyone else right now beyond the odd weak townread.
What do you expect me to do 5 days in when all the lurkers have at least turned up with excuses for not posting?
Thanks, but it wasn't really meant to be a case against you, more just observations of scummy stuff you've done.
Depends what you think constitutes lighting a fire under my butt.
But now I'm here no doubt your gonna grab the opportunity and start pressuring me right?
Let me assure you Generic, I have no intention of mislynching this game.
How does the question help you with regards to Iso. Does scum!Iso turn around and say "oh she has no common sense" when town!Iso turns around and says... I don't know something else. I mean the whole thing looked so OOG I don't really see where the need to involve Iso came in at all. The reason I pointed it out was that it came across to me as someone trying to empathize the lack of knowledge on another player - possibly because their scumbuddies. I'm not entirely sure in your case but the comment and your response have piqued my suspicions.
I don't really think you broke rvs as much as Cantrip did with his question. I'll ignore the OMGUS shot and simply ask what you meant by "sarcastically style it out"?
Well, not unless I try to lynch you. But right now I bigger fish and only one vote.
I gotta ask, what makes you so sure I'm town?
In case you missed it the first time:
If your scum, the case will build itself (if you search my posts really hard you may find some points I have already accrued). If not, hopefully I will work it out before too long. But right now, your in the scum camp.
Utter crap. I have attacked over the content of your posts and lets not pretend otherwise.
Then you'll have to hunt out my town meta if your gonna make meta arguments. And if not then what's the point of this?
'out arogant' you? I don't have the foggiest what your trying to get at it. You can be arrogant as you like.
Lean town, what's yours?
No comment. I might answer this later.
Yes, it was probably the worst module in degree.
Do explain what doesn't sit right with you. Is it the fact that Taredas continuously claims this is my scum meta? Or that I counter his claims to prove he's wrong? Or that he ignores my posts and goes on like my counter posts don't exist? Or that there is more than one scum in this game so I'm perfectly fine with pursuing who I believe to be another scum based on the fabrication he's spewing.
Seriously Generic. Are you following what is going on here and the posts Taredas is trying to put fourth as fact?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I'm not dropping antny. I said there is more than one scum. I'm fine with either one being lynched. No I did not find his absence a town tell, just the opposite.
I wasn't going to switch my vote because it seemed like that was what antny was hoping for, law low while the attention shifts somewhere else. But with the nonsense Taredas was posting I got fed up with it.
I really don't think Taredas and Tanarin are scum together. That vote that Tan laid down was horrible especially when it had nothing to do with his question to me.
@Tarn, What do you think of Tare now that I show his meta case holds no water? Also what do you think of your vote now that you know it was placed under false pretenses?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I'm confident in my ability to read players like antny. The points against him in the beginning of the Day were about him "faking" his rules ignorance and being self-conscious (which is a greatly over-valued buzz word around here). Two things I don't put much stock in at all, as their all about how you've chosen to perceive his posts. Yet he gets pressured by multiple people -> leaning town.
Like I said, I think I can read players like antny very well. He seems to be the type that is unaware of how his actions will appear to the rest of the players, and therefore gets labelled as scummy quickly. The key to reading players like that is looking at the way they case people. Antny's case on me is thin, but he voted me anyway. Despite being under pressure, he put no careful thought into his next move, he just jumped. -> town
Generic, #68: I was attacking you to gauge your reaction; your post felt similar to how you went after Zinger in Marvel 1, where you were scum. I would have expected scum!Generic to not relent like you did.
To answer your question, Tanarin because he jumped on it right out of the blue without bothering to hear any kind of response from AE.
#70, Kamikaze: I disagree that Antny was being “excessively” defensive. I don’t believe there’s a very strong way of responding to a self-aware charge that doesn’t read as defensive or, funny enough, self aware.
There is also no similarities between what I said and what Tanarin said.
Won’t be touching the AE Wagon at this point (as of AE’s reply to Tare)
Generic, #83: None.
I can’t make heads or tails of AE v. Tare — I could see arguments for it being town v. town or town v. scum. AE’s rebuttals of Tare’s case seem decent enough, but I’m not a fan of how it’s solely the basis of AE voting for him and trying to shepherd votes onto him. I’m not a fan of how Tare really isn’t replying to AE but continuing to push the case anyway. It’s just odd behaviour all around to me.
#116, Antny: Why does that post from Generic scream scum?
#117, KoolKoal: Jumpy much?
#129, KoolKoal: Why are you confident you can read Antny?
As a general note to everyone: I have some RL drama currently going on, so for the next few days, I will only be posting once, maybe twice a day at most as my computer time will be limited.
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Thoughts on Tanarin and Taredas
They hate us cause they ain't us.
As for tare, He obviously thought he had a meta read on you. But like most meta reads on players who have played a while, one can find a handful of games representing any viewpoint they want to represent. Being so early in the game, there isn't much to go on, so jumping on a person for a weak meta read is not gonna necessarily skew my view one way or the other.
As for my vote. It was not for the meta read at all. It was for the lack of sincerity I detected in your posts. To represent my vote any other way, especially given my followups is misrepping my case.
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