"I fully expect Brigade to die tonight. Unfortunately my town read on Flamingos day 1 will not look good for us tomorrow; particularly if EDH is scum because I don't see Gen suddenly becoming sane about us tomorrow. However, if Generic is scum - and at this point I'm inclined to think he is - I think we have a fighting chance. EDH correctly read us yesterday and I think he'd be receptive of the argument that Gen just pushed us because we looked vulnerable. He didn't bother making an actual case and he didn't show any signs of actually thinking about any reasons we gave."
This part I found really interesting, we were ready to vote gaymers day 3 with the lack of posting and the sudden panic post at the end. I wish the few days prior we had heard from kraj it may have given us an opportunity to catch gen. I will admit I thought we had today as well, anyway, it was really suspicious that gen disappeared without a case on gaymers after he promised one but we didn't really have time to react to it. Everything is 20/20 in hindsight as they say.
Honestly when someone is such a wildcard in every game they play it's probably safer to get rid of them at some point than keep them (unless you have 2 days and then are in lylo)
Extending my sincere thanks to Generic for not only carrying our clan single-handedly, but also the game, even when he was having some OoG troubles.
Thanks as well to Rhand for co-modding and posting the QTs.
@Bur: The deadline was originally set for midnight the previous night when I extended the deadline 24 hours from the last deadline. Sorry if that was ambiguous wording.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Flamingo had like 10 people playing along and they hardly ever posted. C'mon guys, that was so frustrating.
Mafia Ninja essentially made the town PRs (including Crafters) about 80% useless. It also added wifom because then town has 2 info roles in a 7 person game which negates any gains in the useful 20%.
Anywho, enough *****ing.
I liked the hydra format but it made some things a bit difficult, alas. I think I like the format moving forward though.
I was way too quick to say Generic was town. I think I might have been able to figure it out late (especially if I turned Kank on to the idea because he can read alignments late better than I can) but it's a wash; Generic just played really well. I think I now know better how to read him, though.
I didn't realize me walking out for a week or two would cause such a storm against us; it really killed our momentum which we really needed, while at the same time it didn't prevent our NK which would've made it okay. It was mostly bad timing for when I left and when I returned; it made a coincidence into false evidence against us.
Kank did a good job keeping up the momentum, just got stuck in tunneling reads. Once I got back and had opposing reads, he got out of the tunnel and made some really good points.
Moral of the story: Kank, you are one of the best mafia players I've ever played with so long as you re-evaluate your reads. If you ever find yourself going "oh baby this guy is so scum and he just dug his grave" it means that they're town more often than not; scum are more careful.
You had two info roles to compensate. Claiming the second D2 was a mistake I think.
It was lylo, so it was imperative to narrow the pool as much as possible. Yeah, it made day 3 more awkward, but I wanted to maximize our chances of even seeing day 3 because there's no point in holding back during lylo. Proactively claiming watcher also meant that my claim would be more believable rather than something the scum might have been able to twist around back at me.
Risky, but if you die without having played all your cards, it's like you never drew those cards to begin with.
Gaymers has/had the ability to play better but didn't. At least EDH tried as best they knew how.
I made mention early in our QT just how many times EDH said honestly or to be honest, and had to write it off as null very early on.
Yeah, Gen played really well. The only valid point I had against him was that "mafia wouldn't bus his friend, but look, I'm bussing Flamingo". I guess the only way of thinking that could've caught him at this point would've been the Insane Troll Logic™ ("Gen is acting so unsuspicious so he must be mafia"). Also, while I was suspicious of both, it only stemmed from my bias against them (Gen blowing off like a dynamite at times and Gaymers' whole playing style).
Then, for the last thing(s) that interest me:
1) Iso, explain yourself and the setting. What you were thinking?
2) TA, why on earth you didn't correct yourself that whole Town Vanilla -issue? That would've made it quite clear that you were one...
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I took a risk with my ninja comment. Scarbo jumped on it as intant scum tell, but in actual fact I would have done the exact same thing as town. Had I played dumb there it would have looked far worse for me with the 'oh yeah! why didnt i think of that?' line.
IMO, the way you sorta danced around it while directly suggesting it would have put me on to you as it seemed completely unnatural. But that's just me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In retrospect it was a fun game, and I'm glad EDH made it to the end, I was a pretty *****ty player but I think I was learning throughout. I might play again when I have time to practice more. I've never played a game like this before... honestly.
I think I take the risk and slowroll it. There's almost certainly a second town PR out there, so claiming it down the road isn't bad.
To be fair, you have a point about believability. But I'm confident enough in my abilities that I would have slowrolled in that spot and done the reveal the next Day.
Obv this is all moot if in this setup you fail to lynch the ninja first, at which point both of your PRs are stone useless.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Good game. I highly encourage HAA and Bur to keep playing; I really liked what their hydra was doing throughout the entire game (besides page 12, which is one of the least-readable pages in the history of a mafia game)
This game would be a cakewalk if I was town.
I apologize for my scum play this game. I was a bit overloaded and no one in the clan seemed to want to do it so I put very little effort into it.
Good game. I highly encourage HAA and Bur to keep playing; I really liked what their hydra was doing throughout the entire game (besides page 12, which is one of the least-readable pages in the history of a mafia game)
This game would be a cakewalk if I was town.
I apologize for my scum play this game. I was a bit overloaded and no one in the clan seemed to want to do it so I put very little effort into it.
Awkward moment when insinuating I should stop playing..
I think I take the risk and slowroll it. There's almost certainly a second town PR out there, so claiming it down the road isn't bad.
To be fair, you have a point about believability. But I'm confident enough in my abilities that I would have slowrolled in that spot and done the reveal the next Day.
My town play sends off a ton of scum signals at the best of times, so as far as I was concerned it was a now-or-never thing, especially with such an atypical result. If I'd gotten a genuine no result rather than a ninja hit, I'd have held off, but I certainly wasn't going to sell anyone on my role if any momentum at all had been built up on me that day. All it'd take would be one scum to push me and one to "counterclaim" a different PR and that would've been all she wrote.
I feel like our bigggest play as a group this game was Bur's clever use of the Town Vanilla wording, I wish we had pushed that more before day 1 ended and it was revealed.
Well, I kind of get the flavor (I've read FMA, so I get that part pretty much), but the setup makes me scratch my head...
It's a setup I've run before on another site and it seemed to fare well there. When a Tracker and/or Watcher flip, the town knows the scum have something to circumvent that. And when the Ninja flips, then everyone knows there's a Tracker and a Watcher. Basically, it's up to the Ninja not to get caught behaviorally, and if they do, it's up to the Goon to sniff our the PRs. Likewise, for the town, the Tracker has to find the scum, and the Watcher has to find the kill. So basically they all act in such a way that forces all of the players to play at their best lest they become a detriment to their faction.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Additionally, the Goon getting lynched first rewards the Ninja for playing better than their buddy, and the Ninja getting lynched first rewards the town for focusing on behavior. It's simple and dynamic, but does what it needs to do - which is basically, "be a simple Mafia game setup".
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I see the reasoning in Iso's explanation, it makes sense. I'd be interested in playing with you guys(and girl) at some point again to see if I had improved any. As much as Bur said he wasn't able to do hard analysis he did a good job. Much better than my floundering self. Kank's push for us to play better was really nice too, had I not been suspicious for bogus reasons it probably would have been more helpful.
I would have so preferred one of the other town clans gotten Tracker instead of us (like, say TA) and we gotten the Vanilla card instead. Just being Kank is already a power role!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It was never my intention to play in this one, just to follow along and post in the QT - and when it started I was stretched elsewhere and then think it would have been difficult to insert myself later on in the game.
TBH, it was also kind of de-motivating that every time I did pop into the QT it seemed like you were ragging on everyone else - but you absolutely carried the day and are to be commended.
I think I take the risk and slowroll it. There's almost certainly a second town PR out there, so claiming it down the road isn't bad.
To be fair, you have a point about believability. But I'm confident enough in my abilities that I would have slowrolled in that spot and done the reveal the next Day.
My town play sends off a ton of scum signals at the best of times, so as far as I was concerned it was a now-or-never thing, especially with such an atypical result. If I'd gotten a genuine no result rather than a ninja hit, I'd have held off, but I certainly wasn't going to sell anyone on my role if any momentum at all had been built up on me that day. All it'd take would be one scum to push me and one to "counterclaim" a different PR and that would've been all she wrote.
You take that risk with the line you took anyway.
But I can read you like a book* so the decisions regarding whether to vote for you or not are very easy for me.
*as you say it is very easy
re: setup: It's fine. It looks weird at first but it makes sense when you think about it.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Well, I'm glad Academy isn't LVP. Generic played well it seems. Although he did absolutely everything out of character for his meta in lynching Academy, which I turned up in research. In another recent game, he used the exact same "constantly changing opinions" to townread somebody, using the (correct) logic that scum is concerned with looking to flip-flop.
I learned from mistakes and will be joining another basic soon.
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Epic banner by Erasmus of æтђєг.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Now answer me, I've been wondering this for a long while: Why you didn't correct that "Vanilla Townie" thing back then, before your lycnh? Because, had you done so, it would've been quite a good indicator that you indeed were a VT...
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Now answer me, I've been wondering this for a long while: Why you didn't correct that "Vanilla Townie" thing back then, before your lycnh? Because, had you done so, it would've been quite a good indicator that you indeed were a VT...
Because it wouldn't have been. After you already hinted that Vanilla Townie wasn't the wording, all I would have to do is guess Town Vanilla and I'd have it right. It would prove nothing.
I also thought it would force you to give the wording of the role during twilight, thereby providing you with an indicator you were VT after my flip.
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Epic banner by Erasmus of æтђєг.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Okido, that makes the score:
Mafia mvp: 15 - The Family
Mafia lvp: 8 - Flamingo
Town mvp: 8 - Brigade
Town: 5 - Crafters
Town: 5 - Gaymers
Town: 5 - EDH
Town lvp: 2 - Tolarian Academy
so glad this game is over
This part I found really interesting, we were ready to vote gaymers day 3 with the lack of posting and the sudden panic post at the end. I wish the few days prior we had heard from kraj it may have given us an opportunity to catch gen. I will admit I thought we had today as well, anyway, it was really suspicious that gen disappeared without a case on gaymers after he promised one but we didn't really have time to react to it. Everything is 20/20 in hindsight as they say.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
koolkoal scum mvp
You had two info roles to compensate. Claiming the second D2 was a mistake I think.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Thanks as well to Rhand for co-modding and posting the QTs.
@Bur: The deadline was originally set for midnight the previous night when I extended the deadline 24 hours from the last deadline. Sorry if that was ambiguous wording.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mafia Ninja essentially made the town PRs (including Crafters) about 80% useless. It also added wifom because then town has 2 info roles in a 7 person game which negates any gains in the useful 20%.
Anywho, enough *****ing.
I liked the hydra format but it made some things a bit difficult, alas. I think I like the format moving forward though.
I was way too quick to say Generic was town. I think I might have been able to figure it out late (especially if I turned Kank on to the idea because he can read alignments late better than I can) but it's a wash; Generic just played really well. I think I now know better how to read him, though.
I didn't realize me walking out for a week or two would cause such a storm against us; it really killed our momentum which we really needed, while at the same time it didn't prevent our NK which would've made it okay. It was mostly bad timing for when I left and when I returned; it made a coincidence into false evidence against us.
Kank did a good job keeping up the momentum, just got stuck in tunneling reads. Once I got back and had opposing reads, he got out of the tunnel and made some really good points.
Moral of the story: Kank, you are one of the best mafia players I've ever played with so long as you re-evaluate your reads. If you ever find yourself going "oh baby this guy is so scum and he just dug his grave" it means that they're town more often than not; scum are more careful.
Next clan game Crafters will win.
Scum MVP: Family
Scum LVP: Flamingos
Town LVP: EDH
Town MVP: Brigade
I didn't really enjoy the hydra thing since that's extra players to keep track of. But then again I don't really like playing mafia either.
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It was lylo, so it was imperative to narrow the pool as much as possible. Yeah, it made day 3 more awkward, but I wanted to maximize our chances of even seeing day 3 because there's no point in holding back during lylo. Proactively claiming watcher also meant that my claim would be more believable rather than something the scum might have been able to twist around back at me.
Risky, but if you die without having played all your cards, it's like you never drew those cards to begin with.
I was excited for a moment, if it were 42 I could say it was a clever ploy to reveal the meaning of life, the universe and everything.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Gaymers has/had the ability to play better but didn't. At least EDH tried as best they knew how.
I made mention early in our QT just how many times EDH said honestly or to be honest, and had to write it off as null very early on.
Then, for the last thing(s) that interest me:
1) Iso, explain yourself and the setting. What you were thinking?
2) TA, why on earth you didn't correct yourself that whole Town Vanilla -issue? That would've made it quite clear that you were one...
IMO, the way you sorta danced around it while directly suggesting it would have put me on to you as it seemed completely unnatural. But that's just me.
The setting meaning the flavor or the setup? Or both?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I think I take the risk and slowroll it. There's almost certainly a second town PR out there, so claiming it down the road isn't bad.
To be fair, you have a point about believability. But I'm confident enough in my abilities that I would have slowrolled in that spot and done the reveal the next Day.
Obv this is all moot if in this setup you fail to lynch the ninja first, at which point both of your PRs are stone useless.
This game would be a cakewalk if I was town.
I apologize for my scum play this game. I was a bit overloaded and no one in the clan seemed to want to do it so I put very little effort into it.
Awkward moment when insinuating I should stop playing..
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
So I should play..
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
My town play sends off a ton of scum signals at the best of times, so as far as I was concerned it was a now-or-never thing, especially with such an atypical result. If I'd gotten a genuine no result rather than a ninja hit, I'd have held off, but I certainly wasn't going to sell anyone on my role if any momentum at all had been built up on me that day. All it'd take would be one scum to push me and one to "counterclaim" a different PR and that would've been all she wrote.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
It's a setup I've run before on another site and it seemed to fare well there. When a Tracker and/or Watcher flip, the town knows the scum have something to circumvent that. And when the Ninja flips, then everyone knows there's a Tracker and a Watcher. Basically, it's up to the Ninja not to get caught behaviorally, and if they do, it's up to the Goon to sniff our the PRs. Likewise, for the town, the Tracker has to find the scum, and the Watcher has to find the kill. So basically they all act in such a way that forces all of the players to play at their best lest they become a detriment to their faction.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It was never my intention to play in this one, just to follow along and post in the QT - and when it started I was stretched elsewhere and then think it would have been difficult to insert myself later on in the game.
TBH, it was also kind of de-motivating that every time I did pop into the QT it seemed like you were ragging on everyone else - but you absolutely carried the day and are to be commended.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
You take that risk with the line you took anyway.
But I can read you like a book* so the decisions regarding whether to vote for you or not are very easy for me.
*as you say it is very easy
re: setup: It's fine. It looks weird at first but it makes sense when you think about it.
Well, I'm glad Academy isn't LVP. Generic played well it seems. Although he did absolutely everything out of character for his meta in lynching Academy, which I turned up in research. In another recent game, he used the exact same "constantly changing opinions" to townread somebody, using the (correct) logic that scum is concerned with looking to flip-flop.
I learned from mistakes and will be joining another basic soon.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
I wouldn't have, fwiw.
Now answer me, I've been wondering this for a long while: Why you didn't correct that "Vanilla Townie" thing back then, before your lycnh? Because, had you done so, it would've been quite a good indicator that you indeed were a VT...
Because it wouldn't have been. After you already hinted that Vanilla Townie wasn't the wording, all I would have to do is guess Town Vanilla and I'd have it right. It would prove nothing.
I also thought it would force you to give the wording of the role during twilight, thereby providing you with an indicator you were VT after my flip.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Scum MVP: Family
Scum LVP: Flamingo
Town MVP: Brigade
Town LVP: Gaymers
Scum MVP: Family
Scum LVP: Flamingo
Town MVP: Brigade
Town LVP: EDH
Mafia MVP: Family
Mafia LVP: Flamingo
Town MVP: Crafters
Town LVP: Gaymers
Brigade:
Mafia MVP: Family
Mafia LVP: Flamingo
Town MVP: Brigade
Town LVP: EDH
Unless I missed them somewhere, I still need the nominations from Flamingo and Tolarian Academy.
Mafia MVP: Family
Mafia LVP: Flamingo
Town MVP: Brigade
Town LVP: Tolarian
Mafia LVP: Flamingos
Town MVP: Crafters
Town LVP: Academy
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Mafia mvp: 15 - The Family
Mafia lvp: 8 - Flamingo
Town mvp: 8 - Brigade
Town: 5 - Crafters
Town: 5 - Gaymers
Town: 5 - EDH
Town lvp: 2 - Tolarian Academy
We had to win, we're the mafia clan
So many thanks gen!