I've got leaning scum reads on Rhand, Proph, kamikaze, and whoever redirected lng
I've got light scum reads on Rezombied and lng
I'm really torn on Dkings--I didn't like many of his D1 posts, but I think that his night action makes sense from a town perspective. Also, I think that his action proves that Dkings and Cythare cannot be scum together because it makes no sense for the scum team to waste two of their actions like that on N1.
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@Iso- My ability was not responsible for Meg's claim that someone tried to lower his vitality.
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Considering your statement about how Cythare and I cannot be scum together, how do you justify a scum read on both LnG and the player who redirected him?
@Karn, explain why I would lie about a redirector. Like, just spell out to me in your head how your brain processes the information you know, then spits that thought out.
Anyone that lynched me should feel bad because that lynch was straight trash.
Once again, just like BSG with Guardman, Cyan's behaviour was extremely scummy all game, but he rode to victory solely on a PR claim. This is getting old. Setup gaming blows (hey, that's the reason I got lynched too, what do you know).
I suggest to everyone: in the future care about roles less and care about behaviour more.
Considering your statement about how Cythare and I cannot be scum together, how do you justify a scum read on both LnG and the player who redirected him?
Without knowing complete context of the situation, I think it is entirely possible for them to be scum together. Lng's attack on Sir Karn in #1777 reads very suspicious, as though it is staged. He seems too eager to reveal his role, and overdramatic about drawing attention to it. The difference between the scenario with you and Cythare and the scenario with Lng is that for you both to be scum, it would require that both you and Cythare waste your N1 actions, and you both had to openly share your actions with the rest of the class--all for a reward that I don't think would be worth the risk. I suppose it's plausible, but very unlikely.
With Lng, I could potentially see a conspiracy in which lng was purposefully redirected so that he could appear to be a victim and gain town points, with the hope of also discovering town power. This plan, as opposed to the other, only outs lng, so the redirector remains a mystery and isn't put into any real danger. The reason I put lng as a lower degree of scum than the redirector is because lng could very well still be an innocent victim. It's just the way he revealed his action that made he raise an eyebrow and think that something else was up.
EWP: Or, as Karn just pointed out, the redirector could have just been falsified by lng so that he could get all of the benefits mentioned above, without anyone on the scum team actually having to waste a night action.
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LnG's presentation does suggest that he is trying to play up his ability for towncred, but I can't see the scum having used a redirect on a target that they knew they were already targeting.
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Okay. So, why would LnG state that he was redirected for town cred when he could just say that he targeted Iso?
Like, let's think this through:
This is my understanding of the action as per my night notes:
LnGrrrR --> targeted Iso (Watch) (was redirected to Megiddo, Illuminates people who targeted his target)
LnG targets Iso (+town)
LnG targets Meg (+town)
Either way, he's netting towncred for his action.
What would scum!LnG have to gain by saying that he was redirected to Meg? It just doesn't make sense.
Furthermore, why would the theoretical redirector use his ability to force LnG to target Meg in the first place? Hell, why would the redirector involve Megiddo at all, considering that he's one of the most generally townread people in this game at the moment.
We can fairly safely assume that the theoretical element is either
A: busdriver (who says target LnG will target Megiddo toNight)
or
B: redirector (who says that anything/the first thing that targets [x] will instead target Megiddo toNight)
Neither of these scenarios is a plausible town action.
Now. Why would scum!theoretical busdrive/redirect to Megiddo in the first place?
You'd have to either assume that LnG was townpower and you're moving it to scumpower (frightening thought), or possibly be checking for some kind of immunity, or be wanting to move protections away from the NK -- however, the NK was Sir Chris, who wouldn't have been protected after his D1 anyway.
The final possibility is that the theoretical doesn't exist at all, but to that I again say, what benefit does LnG have to lie about this?
Ok, so why is everyone just ignoring the fact that Megiddo was targeted with an ability hat made him lose vitality, we know who targeted Megiddo, and everyone just... doesn't care? I don't get that at all. Why are Karn and Hans getting free passes on this?
@Cythare, did the flips change your opinion on anything?
@Proph, even when the game was at a 1,000 posts or so, you said you didn't have a good grip on a lot of players. You using that attack against Wildfire is pretty hypocritical.
@Arian is probably town. I have flipped out like that too as both alignments, but it usually is earlier on in the votecount as town than scum.
@Karn, really? The fact that you targeted Megiddo, and you were subsequently illuminated, didn't at least give you an inkling that the two might be related? Iso figured it out.
@Rhand, that question to Iso felt off, like you are trying to prove the players to see if you can get the wagon on me further. Not a fan.
@Seppel, have you pushed anyone toDay? You have felt pretty floaty. You voted Rhand, but then kinda just let it die. I'm used to a more aggressive townSeppel.
Your first comment here: did you even read KillJoy's role? Why do you think someone who causes a small hit to vitality must be scum?
Your @Rhand: Do you know where my vote is? Not sure how you're seeing that question to Iso as a way to get you killed. The intent of it is to make Iso see that you are not a good target for his ability.
Your @Seppel reeks of inside information. You're not questioning his alignment, you're telling him to play more like his town!self.
Until Curse stops sucking, you'll rarely get multi-quotes out of me.
@LnG: I'm kind of lost, and seeing what sticks. It doesn't help that Kami is being so scummy but Iso is protecting him.
Although compare DC3 to Rhand. DC3 is actually engaging me, and took the time to write up a case on me (it was a dumb case but a case nonetheless), whereas Rhand just keeps chanting "Seppel needs to die" hoping that people will just blindly follow him.
I love wagons on me. They're so helpful at finding out who's scum.
Right... You do realise you kept dodging my questions yesterDay like a pro? I'm done engaging. You're scum.
I've got leaning scum reads on Rhand, Proph, kamikaze, and whoever redirected lng
I've got light scum reads on Rezombied and lng
I'm really torn on Dkings--I didn't like many of his D1 posts, but I think that his night action makes sense from a town perspective. Also, I think that his action proves that Dkings and Cythare cannot be scum together because it makes no sense for the scum team to waste two of their actions like that on N1.
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@Iso- My ability was not responsible for Meg's claim that someone tried to lower his vitality.
What's the difference between 'leaning scum read' and 'light scum read'?
About LnGrrrR's redirection: Either the redirector hasn't posted yet toDay or he's scum or he doesn't exist. I can't imagine him keeping silent in all this if he exists and is town.
@Seppel - let me put this in the most polite way I can manage. Screw off. I don't see where you get off calling me 'useless' and 'human wasteland'. I can't do a damned thing about work or getting sick, and if work really does get to a point where I completely can't manage, I will damned well ask for replacement myself.
Killjoy, AI, and Chris all being town changes a few things. Still, there are a few observations that remain valid:
rezombied seems more likely to be town. He's still done basically nothing of consequence, but his 'oh *****, don't hammer yet, I need to catch up' in response to what he thought was KJ being hammered doesn't make sense from mafia that knew KJ was town at all.
With KJ and AI flipping town, Hunger's series of posts re: KJ and AI yesterday looks a lot worse. #1616 in particular was very wishy-washy about KJ at a time when he was already fairly certain to be hammered. His end conclusion seemed to have him leaning town on AI, but in a way that could easily have been reversed.
I probably have to revise my early town read of Arian. I don't actually remember much of anything from him past his first math post, and it's clear there are shenanigans going around with regard to vitality.
Right. I don't actually have an awful lot of time today, especially with pre-release weekend coming up, and from my skim of recent developments there's this huge mess between a whole bunch of players that it'll take time to digest and untangle.
Apologies for not being around. Been sick in bed with some weird allergic reaction. The red spots still haven't all gone away.
Self-conscious start to almost every single post.
I can't believe that this can be in any way a sincere attack, given that you should have seen the exact same kind of post from me in CT3. You know, the game which just ended not long ago, which I directly refer to several times, and which you replaced into as scum.
Also, there's distinct malice in the way you deliberately remove the context of the above quotes. Like for #622, where you cut out all but the very first line, about me being busy.
What did I actually say?
Quote from me »
Apologies for the late reply. Was horrifically busy yesterday.
I've also only skimmed latest content. Apologies for that as well, but my other game is kind of at a critical juncture.
..followed by a chunk of questions/commentary. Guess which game, and what critical juncture, I meant.
I'll be the first to admit I haven't exactly committed the most energy to this game, but you're doing nothing here but exaggerating through fallacy of omission. There's not a shred of a townie thought process in that.
Vote: DCIII
-------------
Other than the above, there's something else that's bugging me about DCIII, assuming he's telling the truth about losing 2 vitality last night. That one will depend on the mod's answer to the question I just asked him.
As above, Hunger also deserves scrutiny.
KamikazeArchon is fairly unlikely to be scum - I don't see a reason for him to use an ability-granting ability on Iso unless Iso is also scum, and there's absolutely no reason for a scum KArchon to be announcing it in-thread regardless. The only possibility would be some extreme corner case involving KArchon attempting to garner town cred, but it seems a needlessly high-risk maneuver. Occam's Razor says KArchon is town.
I also find it highly likely the mysterious redirector is scum. I don't see any reason for anyone to redirect from Iso to Megiddo, and given events yesterday, the other possibility of redirecting LnGrrrR to Megiddo seems very suspect as well.
I want to take another look at everyone who went after LnGrrrR, especially today. Of these, Sir Karn and Prophylaxis stand out as being particularly questionable. Prophylaxis is continuing his vote analysis today, which I'm never had faith in and additionally been disgusted with since Voxxicus got me mislynched with his vote analysis - but despite town flips from both Killjoy and AI, his conclusions appear to have not changed in the slightest. Sir Karn also starts the day with his 'confirmed scum' being LnGrrrR, Prophylaxis, and KArchon... the first and last of which are, given night actions, not likely to be scum, and the middle of whom has been going after the first for most of yesterday, and who voted said first 'confirmed scum' in his very first post of this day.
Apologies for not being around. Been sick in bed with some weird allergic reaction. The red spots still haven't all gone away.
I'm still feeling a bit off, so excuse me not catching up just this moment. But on this same page rezombied's 'oh ***** please don't hammer' just looks horrible.
I can hammer if needed. I'll check back later, assuming I don't fall asleep again.
DCIII with a vague, but ultimately sound vote on me. I mean voting me for things I've said is pretty fair.
Early town read further decreasing.
I see you missed the humor there. Let me help: what else would someone vote me for other than the things I've posted? Think about it.
Anyway been busy, just caught that. Let me go back to reading from where I left off.
I don't like Sir Chris attempting to play this off as sarcasm. Mainly because I don't remember a single hint before from him that it was supposed to be a sarcastic response. In fact, I seem to recall him implying it was a serious response at one point.
DC: You said I didn't quantify what about the position was suspicious. But directly before that, I said that it was because of the risk of outing abilities. I think I made that point earlier, but why not ask if you think I wasn't clear enough? The fact that you say I basically had no reason for the suspicion is suspicious.
...yeah, no.
What I'm understanding from this, and from your 'scum suspect list' is that you're apparently saying that suggesting Alway Eteem first thing in the game is suspicious because it's fishing. Except, you know, where it's the exact opposite of fishing. And where someone would have had to suggest somewhere at some point, because we sure as heck couldn't stay on the First Halls.
No, your stated reasoning for giving that list is nonsensical, and the sheer number of 'no reason given' (so what does that actually tell us?) on that list really makes one wonder why you bothered posting that list in the first place. And there's a very simple scum reason to do so.
One of the annoying things here is much about the claim depends on knowing Killjoy. I have no real prior experience with him so I don't know if he is more earnest about his claims or if he does like to play things up as scum. Hm.
I don't like how non-committal this is, at this point in the day.
i literally don't understand why. Please explain or show me where you already explained.
The wagon is being pushed by a flock of scumreads. And I never saw anything that is damning enough to call KillJoy scum. He's playing like I'm used to from him.
Question 1. Who are these 'scumreads'? Please list them.
Question 2. Riddle me this. How in the world are you reading a town mindset into Killjoy's claim and the choices he was apparently intending to make? He has a vitality-destroying ability, that lowers a player's lifespan by a not insignificant amount over a few days... and his first thought is not to use this on someone he thinks is scum, but rather supposedly on one of his town reads. Because, apparently, he thinks that having their vitality hidden is enough of a benefit to scum to offset being effectively poisoned. Also note where he never appears to have considered the choice of just not using the ability, which is something I would have considered if I, as town truly thought that my ability would hurt town regardless on who I used it on, which would be the case if I had his role and actually thought hidden vitality was a real benefit to scum. That's why I never used my ability in Mostly Mute Monk, even when I could. This apparently has never crossed his mind.
--------------------
It's ironic that someone at some point said he thought there was a concerted effort to get AI through the day, because right now I'm feeling there's a distinct effort to get Killjoy through the day. One that's reminding me a lot of Cyberspace Mafia, and how three out of RobRoy's four teammates apparently felt his extra kill (which he also tried to spin as a town ability and wanted to be left alive one night to use and 'prove himself') was worth falling all over themselves to attempt to keep him from being lynched. Of these, Rhand looks particularly bad, but I don't like the way Sir Chris and HookerPunch are responding either.
I want to vote Killjoy, but first: @Mod: Votecount, please.
Eh. Apologies for the very late post. A bunch of fairly urgent work due Monday came in and slapped me upside the head.
I really don't have the time or energy to be doing a total reread right now. I'll most likely do that during night 1.
I'm rather torn on AI. The most recent game I remember playing with him as scum was Survival Horror, and I thought I remembered him being dismissive and stonewalling there, but when I looked back at that game it was actually mostly the opposite. It doesn't change the fact that his play this game has been less than convincing, though. Eh.
I'm still wary of DCIII. His #694 instantly reminded me of his endgame case in the just-concluded CT3, which is why I asked if that kind of case was usual for him. (Interestingly, as far as I saw while skimming, Prophylaxis was the only person who responded to that question.) Then there's his long emotional spiel in #945, which, as I understand it, is rather out of character for him - and he just finished the aforementioned CT3, where blatant emotional fakery basically won the scum team the game. And then there's how in that same post, he says he's 'feeling better about AI due to interactions with Iso'... but in his latest post he appears to be right back on AI as scum, despite having not mentioned him again in between. And his scumreads in that post are the erratic brothers and the two leading wagons.
...actually, come to think of it, my DCIII read might be why I'm having issue with both the AI and Killjoy wagons. Especially the latter, which seems very much lurker hunting to me, in which case rezombied is probably worse.
Meh.
Vote: DCIII, pending a proper catchup on Monday/Tuesday. (Can someone also point me to a couple of DCIII's other games?)
I spoiled all of the relevant quotes for concision, in their entirity so people can read full context if they wish. Note that they go from most recent -> oldest. LIkewise, I'm going to progress from most recent -> oldest in my evaluation.
-) Rezombied opinion:
rezombied seems more likely to be town. He's still done basically nothing of consequence, but his 'oh *****, don't hammer yet, I need to catch up' in response to what he thought was KJ being hammered doesn't make sense from mafia that knew KJ was town at all.
vs
But on this same page rezombied's 'oh ***** please don't hammer' just looks horrible.
Complete 180 on that.
-) Seppel and DCIII interactions:
@Seppel - let me put this in the most polite way I can manage. Screw off. I don't see where you get off calling me 'useless' and 'human wasteland'. I can't do a damned thing about work or getting sick, and if work really does get to a point where I completely can't manage, I will damned well ask for replacement myself.
Right. I don't actually have an awful lot of time today, especially with pre-release weekend coming up, and from my skim of recent developments there's this huge mess between a whole bunch of players that it'll take time to digest and untangle.
Apologies for not being around. Been sick in bed with some weird allergic reaction. The red spots still haven't all gone away.
Self-conscious start to almost every single post.
I can't believe that this can be in any way a sincere attack, given that you should have seen the exact same kind of post from me in CT3. You know, the game which just ended not long ago, which I directly refer to several times, and which you replaced into as scum.
Also, there's distinct malice in the way you deliberately remove the context of the above quotes. Like for #622, where you cut out all but the very first line, about me being busy.
What did I actually say?
Quote from me »
Apologies for the late reply. Was horrifically busy yesterday.
I've also only skimmed latest content. Apologies for that as well, but my other game is kind of at a critical juncture.
..followed by a chunk of questions/commentary. Guess which game, and what critical juncture, I meant.
I'll be the first to admit I haven't exactly committed the most energy to this game, but you're doing nothing here but exaggerating through fallacy of omission. There's not a shred of a townie thought process in that.
Vote: DCIII
The omgus is real.
Both of these interactions feel very staged and insecure to me -- Seppel's interaction in particular reads like scum vs scum.
I'll reiterate my original point here that scum are less likely to replace out [when not under pressure, obviously] than town is, because they feel as if they owe it to their team to stick it out. Scum usually form a tighter bond with each other as a result of the sensation of "it's us vs the world." Unless your name is Iso, in which case it's "it's me vs the world."
dC displays a lot of self-consciousness throughout these sections. He knows that he isn't pulling his weight, but he defends himself -- viciously -- against those who attack him. I don't remember seeing this level of vehemence from dC ever before -- he's usually pretty calm and collected. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that emotion is a scumtell from him, but it's something that I think I should mention in case someone has more experience with dC than I do and can say with greater certainty.
-) Further attempt at discrediting Proph:
Prophylaxis is continuing his vote analysis today, which I'm never had faith in and additionally been disgusted with since Voxxicus got me mislynched with his vote analysis - but despite town flips from both Killjoy and AI, his conclusions appear to have not changed in the slightest.
I don't doubt the veracity of his historical anecdote about being mislynched because of Voxx's analysis. What I don't like, though, is that he seemingly bases his entire read on Prophylaxis on this one item. I further dislike this overall trend of people coming out against the votecount analysis that Proph has been doing, and it makes question if there's a concerted scum attempt at discrediting it because Proph is on the track of something.
-) Pushes Sir Chris, AI, and Killjoy all on D1 -- all three of which have flipped town.
This one re@Killjoy especially bothers me:
Question 2. Riddle me this. How in the world are you reading a town mindset into Killjoy's claim and the choices he was apparently intending to make? He has a vitality-destroying ability, that lowers a player's lifespan by a not insignificant amount over a few days... and his first thought is not to use this on someone he thinks is scum, but rather supposedly on one of his town reads. Because, apparently, he thinks that having their vitality hidden is enough of a benefit to scum to offset being effectively poisoned. Also note where he never appears to have considered the choice of just not using the ability, which is something I would have considered if I, as town truly thought that my ability would hurt town regardless on who I used it on, which would be the case if I had his role and actually thought hidden vitality was a real benefit to scum. That's why I never used my ability in Mostly Mute Monk, even when I could. This apparently has never crossed his mind.
I can't find the post now, but I am 100% certain that Killjoy specifically mentioned the possibility of not using his ability before dC posted this. dC either missed it or opted to neglect mentioning it.
Also, considering how much Megiddo's Vitality went nuts overnight, it's pretty obvious that 3 vit / night is meaningless to Meg. This reflects poorly on dC, because obviously KillJoy had actually considered the applications of his ability.
-) Another historical anecdote:
It's ironic that someone at some point said he thought there was a concerted effort to get AI through the day, because right now I'm feeling there's a distinct effort to get Killjoy through the day. One that's reminding me a lot of Cyberspace Mafia, and how three out of RobRoy's four teammates apparently felt his extra kill (which he also tried to spin as a town ability and wanted to be left alive one night to use and 'prove himself') was worth falling all over themselves to attempt to keep him from being lynched. Of these, Rhand looks particularly bad, but I don't like the way Sir Chris and HookerPunch are responding either.
Except, you know, KillJoy and AI both flipped town.
-) mmm...waffles.
I'm rather torn on AI. The most recent game I remember playing with him as scum was Survival Horror, and I thought I remembered him being dismissive and stonewalling there, but when I looked back at that game it was actually mostly the opposite. It doesn't change the fact that his play this game has been less than convincing, though. Eh.
-) More DCIII distancing:
I'm still wary of DCIII. His #694 instantly reminded me of his endgame case in the just-concluded CT3, which is why I asked if that kind of case was usual for him. (Interestingly, as far as I saw while skimming, Prophylaxis was the only person who responded to that question.) Then there's his long emotional spiel in #945, which, as I understand it, is rather out of character for him - and he just finished the aforementioned CT3, where blatant emotional fakery basically won the scum team the game. And then there's how in that same post, he says he's 'feeling better about AI due to interactions with Iso'... but in his latest post he appears to be right back on AI as scum, despite having not mentioned him again in between. And his scumreads in that post are the erratic brothers and the two leading wagons.
tl;dr summary of the top 3 points against dC:
1) Seppel interaction reeks of annoyed teammate.
2) Wrong about everyone who flipped N1: unlikely for someone of dC's skill. (aka: the not-an-idiot argument)
3) Uses historical anecdotes which don't necessarily apply to this game to attempt to guide opinions.
Bonus 4) Prophylaxis, can you check on this? I'm out of time to look back now, but I -think- that dC never actually voted for Chris, AI, or KillJoy despite having commented several times that he didn't like X / that Y was scummy etc. He voted DCIII twice, I believe, but never any of the three corpses. Can you confirm this since you have all the information handy courtesy of your vote analysis anyway?
I should probably have also re-iterated in my dC case that, per Sir Chris's last known reads on D1, he strongly believed dC to be scum. Obviously Sir Chris's reads don't magically get any better or worse, but it's conceivable that he was killed to silence dC's primary detractor.
Bonus 4) Prophylaxis, can you check on this? I'm out of time to look back now, but I -think- that dC never actually voted for Chris, AI, or KillJoy despite having commented several times that he didn't like X / that Y was scummy etc. He voted DCIII twice, I believe, but never any of the three corpses. Can you confirm this since you have all the information handy courtesy of your vote analysis anyway?
A quick search shows that he voted for Sir Chris in post 196. So, pretty early on. No votes on Killjo or AI, though.
1) Seppel interaction reeks of annoyed teammate.
2) Wrong about everyone who flipped N1: unlikely for someone of dC's skill. (aka: the not-an-idiot argument)
3) Uses historical anecdotes which don't necessarily apply to this game to attempt to guide opinions.
I'm not fond of 1) because I don't think Seppel is scum
2) seems like a decent point, but half the game (literally) was convinced KJ and AI were scum, and a decent number of people suspected Chris as well
3) This is a decent point
Your 4) is pretty decent as well, but this is hardly a slam-dunk case.
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I love who is calling me scum toDay lol.
Meg did say he did not want vitality help. Multiple times.
Iso ignored that and I am scum for seeing that? Come on...
unvote, vote Seppel
Is that the question you want me to answer? Because that has nothing to do with my vote on you.
Let's not forget this meh-worthy case of yours trying to push AI:
I got bored and made a PBPA of AI.
I started out all shiny with colors and quotes and such, but got tired of it somewhere halfway through. The first thing I stopped doing is making things blue, as I'm convinced that I'm casing a scum and feel like pointing out good stuff is a waste of time. I then stopped with the quoting because it's so much work and then in the end I also got tired of making things red.
So ehm... Here it is:
#15 and #16: RVS, vote on KillJoy, only talk about mechanics
#47: Fishing Megiddo's role
@Megiddo: Given public information, you are likely to die soon. If there were a player who could increase other players' Vitality, should that player target you? Why?
#54: drops the topic when called out for fishing. Votes against moving with no reason.
#77: mentions massclaim but doesn't really propose it. Doesn't think Niv scummy.
For those who don't want to go to Alaway, I would like to hear the reasoning. If it's "I would like a claim first", then state that outright. "It's too early" is a poor reason.
I wouldn't mind a mass-claim but I doubt that's a popular sentiment. (For anyone who wasn't in the game, it worked pretty well for us in Grim Batol.)
I don't consider Niv's opening post scummy and encourage someone to elaborate as to why I should.
#87: Still doesn't think Niv scummy, defends massclaim idea but doesn't want to push it, hunts Wildfire
Also, a mass claim seems like a bad idea. Given that the roles are randomized between alignments, all we're doing is giving the scum free information.
Given the large amount of public information, coordinating actions to correspond to Vitality seems like a reasonable idea. I'm not gonna push it but I think it's worth considering.
@Wildire: Two players with a fair amount of clout between them are convinced that you are scum. You ignore them. Why?
#128: Correctly sees that LnGrrrR is reading stuff he never said. Trolls Wildfire. Doesn't give a reason for his Cythare vote
ITT: Cythare fakes it, wildfire tries really hard, and AsianInvasion is secretly scum but nobody will ever vote for him.
Two out of three ain't bad.
Unvote
Vote Cythare
#142: More trolling of Wildfire
#144: Doesn't mind LnGrrrR putting words in his mouth. Doesn't care where we move to. Threatens to get wildfire lynched but doesn't vote.
Mad as in angry? Nah.
Mad as in crazy? Well, we're all a little mad, aren't we?
k good we gon' lynch u
#168: “nah bro” as defence vs Seppel's suspicion. Townclears Chris.
#176: repeats suspicion of Cythare. Still no reasoning.
#178: Reasoning on Cythare: "Dudebro is trying way too hard to not make waves.”
#181: defends his Cythare read
#183: small Cythare case. Ok since the game is still early.
#185: AI doesn't want Cythare to attack Wildfire, while Wildfire is a scumread for AI
">The content is mostly poking holes in Wildfire's flimsy logic. That boat is already sinking, so there's no need to throw more stones.
And there are more productive ways to interact with Meg than to completely shut down. I would hope that you would be able to see that.
#240-241: I like the attack on Meg.
#246: /barns Lngr and Seppel and moves vote to Sir Chris for the Wildfire unvote.
#249: defends himself against what he sees as misreps
#257: admits his mistake but keeps his vote on sir Chris
#262: explains what he /barned from Lngr
#272: fence on Karn
#282: nothing of note
#290: defence against DCIII case
#296: calls Karn, who he had no read on just before, scummy.
#299: admits he doesn't care
#328: defence against Seppel: seems like he feels cornered
I thought Killjoy's post was a slip for two reasons - one, because it felt like a "he's wrong about the size of our team" reaction because it didn't even occur to me prior to that that Iso would have listed those people meaning that it had to be that exact number of people, no more, no less. Two, because he miscounted the number of people that Iso had listed as scum, which made me think that he didn't actually care about or take time to consider who among that list Iso thought were scum, just saw his name and maybe another relevant name or two and reacted.
The thing I found strange about the situation is that no one was reacting to Iso's claim that it was a slip. He said that Killjoy slipped in #223 and I didn't see anyone mention it aside from Killjoy in #277 until I did in #285. And still few people have acknowledged the discussion - which makes me think there's probably some egg shell walking going on around that point.
Oh yeah, that was Killjoy who said that. Killjoy: Leaning scum.
#383: Karn vote with no reasoning
#386: says he voted Karn not because he's scum but because he's playing terribly
#389: I strongly dislike how he uses language here. Seems he wants Chris to feel bad for questioning him.
I see, so in the world of AsianInvasion good (presumed) town play is constantly shifting your reasoning, not bothering to fact check, and in a seeming reply to the lack of fact checks disregarding giving much of a reason at all and then deciding that a pure OMGUS reasoning will carry the day.
You know to be fair I think that is completely nuts so maybe I am the terrible one here.
I already admitted that I am not a good player. So kindly point your e-peen elsewhere.
...Not to mention the fact that voting me for being terrible is generally not something that needs to be handled with such great care that you won't tip someone off. In fact as town, if you think I am just playing terribly and am unsure of my alignment, you should WANT to tell me why you are voting for me right away as to encourage some shift in my play for you to read into.
Just... come on. This is weak.
If you can't figure out how that makes sense then you are just not worth my time.
#395: back on the fence on Karn
#403: defends his one game meta-read on Karn by saying that meta doesn't work
#460 – 461 – 470 – 479: nothing of note happening.
#582 – 596: AI goes back to mechanical posts.
#664: agrees with Karn on somehting obvious. Seppel becomes a townread.
#679: doesn't vote Cythare to get him lynched but does want him dead
#689: T/S. Karn became a nullread again. Is leaning scum on EtR and Kpaca without ever mentioning them...
#740: … but then immediately calls out others who scumread him without mentioning so before.
#768: votes Wildfire for “scummiest post ITT” but doesn't explain why
#775: calls Chris “confused” and therefor town only because he has a scumread on AI (and apparently forgets that scum have “scumreads” on town all the time)
#796: Suddenly very friendly to Chris. Read on Iso changes.
#797: Says he doesn't believe Wildfire “considering I want him lynched”. Weird wording choice.
#856: more suspicion of Iso, but doesn't want to do the legwork himself. /barns Chris a few times.
#857: vote on KJ. No own reasoning apart from /barning Chris
#863: engages Iso. Defends his KJ vote with the old “4 scum slip”
#877-880: nothing of note
#889: smear on HP
#899: handwaves Karn's accusations
#943: more handwaving of stuff
#983: more handwaves
#989: ignoring of stuff
#994: Small attack on Proph
#1014: calls me sloppy for something I didn't do
#1036: more false accusation
#1038: taunts Karn to use the NK on him
#1051: Changes from “Rhand is fencesitting” to “I understand Rhand's perspective but do not agree”
#1070: thinks fence-sitting isn't scummy
#1092: wants the day to end
#1108: uses rudeness as defence again
Next posts are about mechanics and wanting the day to end
#1370: townreads on me and Wildfire and scumread on Iso
#1409: Bad wording. Huge red flag.
#1453: I'm not fond of this reasoning. With 2 stalled wagons, it is not anti-town to try a third one on someone who got a lot of suspicion on him already, but AI wants to make is seem like it is.
Last posts I just mentioned in my last post.
i literally don't understand why. Please explain or show me where you already explained.
The wagon is being pushed by a flock of scumreads. And I never saw anything that is damning enough to call KillJoy scum. He's playing like I'm used to from him.
@DCIII: it's Seppel and Proph that stood out to me during my read.
Seppel because his early reads are usually correct and this time he called Wildfire scum 'again' while I saw Wildfire in his town meta.
Proph because he was too sure about what he thought he was seeing in Wildfire.
This is Rhand's first read of me (starts in his second post) and that is seriously his logic used to start a scumread on me.
I said MULTIPLE TIMES that everything you pointed out in your case was meh-worthy. The "red flag" line you didn't even link to and I looked at it and it was nothing notable!
1. Karn: How much vitality did you make me lose last Night? Just the number is all I need.
2. Iso: I want to keep arguing with you about your failure to read between the lines Yesterday, but that isn't really going to go anywhere. I don't see the scum motivation behind motivating me here? However, we have no proof that you can actually do this, so the jury is still out this.
3. It seems as though I was too late.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I asked you to explain me why the reasoning I was giving wasn't valid and you never bothered.
The best response I got out of you was you telling me that AI's posts were shrugworthy. You never ever commented on anything specific I said. Even though I asked multiple times.
Did you really think you were going to get me to step out of my tunnel with generalized comments like that?
Ofc you didn't. For scum!you it's good that town is tunneling other town.
I asked you to explain me why the reasoning I was giving wasn't valid and you never bothered.
The best response I got out of you was you telling me that AI's posts were shrugworthy. You never ever commented on anything specific I said. Even though I asked multiple times.
Did you really think you were going to get me to step out of my tunnel with generalized comments like that?
Ofc you didn't. For scum!you it's good that town is tunneling other town.
I tried multiple times to get you to come over to the killjoy wagon by citing REAL things that KJ did instead of your trashy "red flags" bs. You couldn't just come over and hammer though, the hammerer always looks bad!
#357 is the reason I'm sold he's scum: town doesn't forget scumslips.
#389 is using emotions on Chris and since then he befriended him.
#185 he calls Cythare scum for attacking someone he thinks is scum because "that ship is already sinking". Why would someone be scum for trying to get scum lynched? That's dishonest. Feels as if AI forgot that he called Wildfire scum and grasps at straws to defend his Cythare scumread.
Those 3 are the worst ^^
Funny, those were the ones that I felt were most shrugworthy.
Then why aren't you trying to change my mind? My thoughts are out there. If they're wrong, show me why.
God it's like he was begging me to give him a reason to hammer Killjoy.
I asked you to explain me why the reasoning I was giving wasn't valid and you never bothered.
The best response I got out of you was you telling me that AI's posts were shrugworthy. You never ever commented on anything specific I said. Even though I asked multiple times.
Did you really think you were going to get me to step out of my tunnel with generalized comments like that?
Ofc you didn't. For scum!you it's good that town is tunneling other town.
I tried multiple times to get you to come over to the killjoy wagon by citing REAL things that KJ did instead of your trashy "red flags" bs. You couldn't just come over and hammer though, the hammerer always looks bad!
So what now... I'm scum because I was looking for you to help me to find a reason to hop on KillJoy? (which is not true)
AND I'm scum for not accepting a reason to hop on KillJoy?
Make up your mind before you try to discredit me with your nonsense please.
I do have a fairly solid read on you as town, but like I said, it's influenced highly by what I know about your meta.
For example, like 80% of the first half of your posts is you being convinced I'm scum and riding me hard, and I know from you mentoring me that one of your favorite strategies as town is to tunnel early to look for reactions and/or ride bad RVS to scum lynches.
What do you think of my more recent posts?
Quote from LnGrrrR »
@Proph, even when the game was at a 1,000 posts or so, you said you didn't have a good grip on a lot of players. You using that attack against Wildfire is pretty hypocritical.
How in the world am I attacking Wildfire?
Quote from Arianrhod »
I really can't tell you. Maybe it's because DKings has been hounding me for no reason since he joined the game and now people are actually listening to him. It's a lot easier to ignore him when he's a lone voice in the wilderness. Maybe it's because after living through a night cycle and seeing the vitality changes, I feel like my ability is more important than I felt it was on D1 and I'm less willing to go down guns blazing. Maybe it's because all of my friends were having fun nights with their family last night and my family is all dead or moved out of the area = bad mental state.
Everyone that I've played games with on here seems incapable of understanding that I just post as me. I don't have some kind of 'mafia persona.' However I'm feeling at the particular time that I'm posting is what comes through my posts. I'm a lot better about having a thicker skin now than when I started playing, but it still aggravates me when people try to read into my posts looking for some kind of meaning that just isn't there.
This doesn't really answer my question, but it's an extremely townie/transparent post from you. Thanks for that.
Quote from Wildfire »
You can always do the multiquotes, then copy and paste the whole thing into a text document to manipulate.
You can also enlarge the Quick Reply box, which is what I'm doing right now.
God, I'm reading (and rereading) the last couple of pages, and I'm really not understanding the emphasis on mechanics here.
Quote from Rhand »
Your @Seppel reeks of inside information. You're not questioning his alignment, you're telling him to play more like his town!self.
/barn
Quote from Arianrhod »
Bonus 4) Prophylaxis, can you check on this? I'm out of time to look back now, but I -think- that dC never actually voted for Chris, AI, or KillJoy despite having commented several times that he didn't like X / that Y was scummy etc. He voted DCIII twice, I believe, but never any of the three corpses. Can you confirm this since you have all the information handy courtesy of your vote analysis anyway?
He voted DCIII twice and Sir Chris once.
Quote from Wildfire »
Your 4) is pretty decent as well, but this is hardly a slam-dunk case.
I'm convinced by Arian's case and I'm willing to move my vote to desCoures, but I want to lynch LnG and Seppel before him.
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I've got leaning scum reads on Rhand, Proph, kamikaze, and whoever redirected lng
I've got light scum reads on Rezombied and lng
I'm really torn on Dkings--I didn't like many of his D1 posts, but I think that his night action makes sense from a town perspective. Also, I think that his action proves that Dkings and Cythare cannot be scum together because it makes no sense for the scum team to waste two of their actions like that on N1.
------------------
@Iso- My ability was not responsible for Meg's claim that someone tried to lower his vitality.
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Also, I don't remember where my vote is, and it may already be here, but I'll make sure.
unvote.
Vote: LnGrrrR
Dude needs to get dropped.
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Without knowing complete context of the situation, I think it is entirely possible for them to be scum together. Lng's attack on Sir Karn in #1777 reads very suspicious, as though it is staged. He seems too eager to reveal his role, and overdramatic about drawing attention to it. The difference between the scenario with you and Cythare and the scenario with Lng is that for you both to be scum, it would require that both you and Cythare waste your N1 actions, and you both had to openly share your actions with the rest of the class--all for a reward that I don't think would be worth the risk. I suppose it's plausible, but very unlikely.
With Lng, I could potentially see a conspiracy in which lng was purposefully redirected so that he could appear to be a victim and gain town points, with the hope of also discovering town power. This plan, as opposed to the other, only outs lng, so the redirector remains a mystery and isn't put into any real danger. The reason I put lng as a lower degree of scum than the redirector is because lng could very well still be an innocent victim. It's just the way he revealed his action that made he raise an eyebrow and think that something else was up.
EWP: Or, as Karn just pointed out, the redirector could have just been falsified by lng so that he could get all of the benefits mentioned above, without anyone on the scum team actually having to waste a night action.
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I'm suggesting that it is a possibility. Look at post #1777 where he addresses Karn and tell me whether or not you think it looks staged.
I'd certainly agree if Lng's presentation didn't feel so off. Now, I'm somewhat doubtful.
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Like, let's think this through:
This is my understanding of the action as per my night notes:
LnGrrrR --> targeted Iso (Watch) (was redirected to Megiddo, Illuminates people who targeted his target)
LnG targets Iso (+town)
LnG targets Meg (+town)
Either way, he's netting towncred for his action.
What would scum!LnG have to gain by saying that he was redirected to Meg? It just doesn't make sense.
Furthermore, why would the theoretical redirector use his ability to force LnG to target Meg in the first place? Hell, why would the redirector involve Megiddo at all, considering that he's one of the most generally townread people in this game at the moment.
We can fairly safely assume that the theoretical element is either
A: busdriver (who says target LnG will target Megiddo toNight)
or
B: redirector (who says that anything/the first thing that targets [x] will instead target Megiddo toNight)
Neither of these scenarios is a plausible town action.
Now. Why would scum!theoretical busdrive/redirect to Megiddo in the first place?
You'd have to either assume that LnG was townpower and you're moving it to scumpower (frightening thought), or possibly be checking for some kind of immunity, or be wanting to move protections away from the NK -- however, the NK was Sir Chris, who wouldn't have been protected after his D1 anyway.
The final possibility is that the theoretical doesn't exist at all, but to that I again say, what benefit does LnG have to lie about this?
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>Check thread three hours later.
>Curse ate post.
I have the quotes pulled up and saved in notepad++...picking away at it when I get time in between work. Hope that's okay, master =.=;;
Your first comment here: did you even read KillJoy's role? Why do you think someone who causes a small hit to vitality must be scum?
Your @Rhand: Do you know where my vote is? Not sure how you're seeing that question to Iso as a way to get you killed. The intent of it is to make Iso see that you are not a good target for his ability.
Your @Seppel reeks of inside information. You're not questioning his alignment, you're telling him to play more like his town!self.
Right... You do realise you kept dodging my questions yesterDay like a pro? I'm done engaging. You're scum.
I think we should just massclaim. Why only the people that targetted AI / Chris?
What's the difference between 'leaning scum read' and 'light scum read'?
About LnGrrrR's redirection: Either the redirector hasn't posted yet toDay or he's scum or he doesn't exist. I can't imagine him keeping silent in all this if he exists and is town.
I spoiled all of the relevant quotes for concision, in their entirity so people can read full context if they wish. Note that they go from most recent -> oldest. LIkewise, I'm going to progress from most recent -> oldest in my evaluation.
-) Rezombied opinion:
vs
Complete 180 on that.
-) Seppel and DCIII interactions:
The omgus is real.
Both of these interactions feel very staged and insecure to me -- Seppel's interaction in particular reads like scum vs scum.
I'll reiterate my original point here that scum are less likely to replace out [when not under pressure, obviously] than town is, because they feel as if they owe it to their team to stick it out. Scum usually form a tighter bond with each other as a result of the sensation of "it's us vs the world." Unless your name is Iso, in which case it's "it's me vs the world."
dC displays a lot of self-consciousness throughout these sections. He knows that he isn't pulling his weight, but he defends himself -- viciously -- against those who attack him. I don't remember seeing this level of vehemence from dC ever before -- he's usually pretty calm and collected. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that emotion is a scumtell from him, but it's something that I think I should mention in case someone has more experience with dC than I do and can say with greater certainty.
-) Further attempt at discrediting Proph:
I don't doubt the veracity of his historical anecdote about being mislynched because of Voxx's analysis. What I don't like, though, is that he seemingly bases his entire read on Prophylaxis on this one item. I further dislike this overall trend of people coming out against the votecount analysis that Proph has been doing, and it makes question if there's a concerted scum attempt at discrediting it because Proph is on the track of something.
-) Pushes Sir Chris, AI, and Killjoy all on D1 -- all three of which have flipped town.
This one re@Killjoy especially bothers me:
I can't find the post now, but I am 100% certain that Killjoy specifically mentioned the possibility of not using his ability before dC posted this. dC either missed it or opted to neglect mentioning it.
Also, considering how much Megiddo's Vitality went nuts overnight, it's pretty obvious that 3 vit / night is meaningless to Meg. This reflects poorly on dC, because obviously KillJoy had actually considered the applications of his ability.
-) Another historical anecdote:
Except, you know, KillJoy and AI both flipped town.
-) mmm...waffles.
-) More DCIII distancing:
tl;dr summary of the top 3 points against dC:
1) Seppel interaction reeks of annoyed teammate.
2) Wrong about everyone who flipped N1: unlikely for someone of dC's skill. (aka: the not-an-idiot argument)
3) Uses historical anecdotes which don't necessarily apply to this game to attempt to guide opinions.
Bonus 4) Prophylaxis, can you check on this? I'm out of time to look back now, but I -think- that dC never actually voted for Chris, AI, or KillJoy despite having commented several times that he didn't like X / that Y was scummy etc. He voted DCIII twice, I believe, but never any of the three corpses. Can you confirm this since you have all the information handy courtesy of your vote analysis anyway?
Also @Rhand: I can't dodge what I've ignored.
Whatever... You can't accuse me of not engaging when you ignore my questions.
I'm sure you don't really think I'm scum.
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I don't remember where mine is. So just to be sure
unvote.
Vote: LnGrrrR
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I'm not fond of 1) because I don't think Seppel is scum
2) seems like a decent point, but half the game (literally) was convinced KJ and AI were scum, and a decent number of people suspected Chris as well
3) This is a decent point
Your 4) is pretty decent as well, but this is hardly a slam-dunk case.
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Then what was your "the scumteam isn't randomized" comment all about?
Is that the question you want me to answer? Because that has nothing to do with my vote on you.
Let's not forget this meh-worthy case of yours trying to push AI:
I could say the same except change Killjoy to AI.
I thought I did but I couldn't find it.
This is Rhand's first read of me (starts in his second post) and that is seriously his logic used to start a scumread on me.
1. Karn: How much vitality did you make me lose last Night? Just the number is all I need.
2. Iso: I want to keep arguing with you about your failure to read between the lines Yesterday, but that isn't really going to go anywhere. I don't see the scum motivation behind motivating me here? However, we have no proof that you can actually do this, so the jury is still out this.
3. It seems as though I was too late.
The best response I got out of you was you telling me that AI's posts were shrugworthy. You never ever commented on anything specific I said. Even though I asked multiple times.
Did you really think you were going to get me to step out of my tunnel with generalized comments like that?
Ofc you didn't. For scum!you it's good that town is tunneling other town.
I tried multiple times to get you to come over to the killjoy wagon by citing REAL things that KJ did instead of your trashy "red flags" bs. You couldn't just come over and hammer though, the hammerer always looks bad!
So what now... I'm scum because I was looking for you to help me to find a reason to hop on KillJoy? (which is not true)
AND I'm scum for not accepting a reason to hop on KillJoy?
Make up your mind before you try to discredit me with your nonsense please.
?
Reasoning?
What do you think of my more recent posts?
How in the world am I attacking Wildfire?
This doesn't really answer my question, but it's an extremely townie/transparent post from you. Thanks for that.
You can also enlarge the Quick Reply box, which is what I'm doing right now.
God, I'm reading (and rereading) the last couple of pages, and I'm really not understanding the emphasis on mechanics here.
/barn
He voted DCIII twice and Sir Chris once.
I'm convinced by Arian's case and I'm willing to move my vote to desCoures, but I want to lynch LnG and Seppel before him.
Case on LnG incoming.